CBC allowed Mean Old Me to have a little ethical fun poking holes in stuffed shirts, That is until one of their favourite Trolls entered the fray in their first article and attacked me just before the comment section closed. However when I responded to the Troll within the second article CBC blocked me and I knew the score for sure.
'Mind-boggling': Canaport LNG assessment slashed by nearly $202M after tax deal repealed
Reduction saves Irving Oil $5.5M in property taxes it would have had to pay to Saint John
By Robert Jones, CBC News Posted: Mar 01, 2017 11:53 AM AT169 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Aint it funny that even the very crooked liberal lawyer David Lutz Q.C. pretends to be upset?
David Lutz
R U Kidding me!! There's something criminal going on here.
Paul Bourgoin
@David Lutz
New Brunswick Politicians, heads of the leaderless province would rather extort their Residents, cut their services, force them to leave instead of doing what they are elected to do which is to be open..
New Brunswick Politicians, heads of the leaderless province would rather extort their Residents, cut their services, force them to leave instead of doing what they are elected to do which is to be open..
david herman
@David Lutz
You talking Boudreau and his Beach baby?, or this Irving thing.....one and the same=complete corruption.
You talking Boudreau and his Beach baby?, or this Irving thing.....one and the same=complete corruption.
Chris Ashurst
What a crock of shit. Why would anyone vote in this province?
Why would anyone move here? The Irving monarchy is disgusting.
Democracy? What a joke. You're mine, vote accordingly.
Why would anyone move here? The Irving monarchy is disgusting.
Democracy? What a joke. You're mine, vote accordingly.
David Raymond Amos
@Chris Ashurst Glad to see
that you are pissed off. Why on earth do folks think I ran for public
office five times yet never voted in my life?
Perhaps you should consider supporting the KISS Party of NB?
Hint Hint Democracy and Justice are myths.
Perhaps you should consider supporting the KISS Party of NB?
Hint Hint Democracy and Justice are myths.
And we should expect
something different????????? Ha Ha Ha Welcome to New Brunswick where the
Liberal/Conservative/Conservative/Liberal crowd is renewed every four
years. What a joke. Please voters Take A Chance And Drop These
$##*%#$@'s to "Make New Brunswick One Of The Greatest Provinces In
Canada" It is possible with a complete change in our government in this
place.
David Raymond Amos
@James Johnstone FYI there is a KISS of Party member coming near you soon
Douglas James
Meanwhile, I just checked the mail and see I received my assessment for my small home on Pugsley Avenue....an increase of 30 percent! The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Let's not forget that while Saint John complains now, it allowed the tax ripoff for LNG in the first place AND subsequently did not appeal a 60 percent reduction in the assessment for the Irving pulp mill just before it announced its expansion. I think its time for an independent investigation to be conducted into the entire New Brunswick property tax system
David Raymond Amos
@Douglas James Why does anyone pretend to be surprised?
Trust that the CBC, the RCMP, the NEB, the Liberal and Conservative Governmental mandates, the Saint John City Council and their cops, the Irvings, Repsol and legions of lawyers know that this is not rocket science to me.
Trust that the politicians and all the cops and lawyers recall why I ran in the provincial election in Saint John Harbour while intervening in the Emera Pipeline Project in 2006??? If you do not and CBC or the politicians won't tell you then check the documented history that still can be found within the public record and laugh at what CBC, the Tax Man and the politicians claim today.
Rosemary Stones
@David Raymond Amos Enough already with the CBC trashing.
Rosemary Stones
Wow....the chance that Irving
might appeal for a further reduction after an already insane level of
reduction in assessed value? It is high time this province stopped
playing the part of Court Jester to the King and Princes of Irving. It
is high time that the cycles of greed, end. The citizens of New
Brunswick can no longer afford to subsidize billionaires. The citizens
of New Brunswick are not grateful peasants, receiving scraps of
patronage.
New Brunswick is no Camelot, and Arthur is not a King.
New Brunswick is no Camelot, and Arthur is not a King.
David Raymond Amos
@Rosemary Stones FYI Way back
in 2002 when I was arguing many Yankee lawyers in the US Courts I as a
Proud Maritimer referred to myself as a Court Jester. It was because of
my fondness for the old Bard's work and how he often made the Court
Jester the one to tell the true tale byway of comedy. My favourite
Jester of all bar none is Yorick because he said nothing at all except
grin from the grave. George Carlin is a very close second.
Speaking of barring I have been barred from every legislative property in Canada since I ran in the election of the 38th Parliament. The unbelievable part is that CBC does nothing but laugh at the malicious nonsense because everybody and his dog thinks I am as crazy as a loon. Hence Ideserve the barring, CBC makes exceptions of course particularly when it comes to the barring New Brunswick's favourite blogger Chucky Leblanc.
When you mentioned the insane level of reduction in assessed value, I thought of my Father who was the Tax Supervisor of this Province until the day he died at an age younger than I am now. I still recall fondly his battles with the Irvings and trying to make them pay their fair share of property taxes. I inherited that battle by choice much to the chagrin of my Mother, her very politcal second husband and of course my brother in law's law firm partner in Saint John.
Lately I have been having a lot of fun dicing within Social Media with Michael Lebron aka "Lionel" a very snobby Yankee lawyer who lives in Hells Kitchen NY. He claims to be America's favourite contrarian. I do not wish to steal the lawyer's thunder so I will merely quote the title of his book.
"Everyone's Crazy Except You and Me...And I'm Not So Sure About You"
Best of Regards to you Rosemary
Veritas Vincit
David Raymond Amos aka Just Dave
Speaking of barring I have been barred from every legislative property in Canada since I ran in the election of the 38th Parliament. The unbelievable part is that CBC does nothing but laugh at the malicious nonsense because everybody and his dog thinks I am as crazy as a loon. Hence Ideserve the barring, CBC makes exceptions of course particularly when it comes to the barring New Brunswick's favourite blogger Chucky Leblanc.
When you mentioned the insane level of reduction in assessed value, I thought of my Father who was the Tax Supervisor of this Province until the day he died at an age younger than I am now. I still recall fondly his battles with the Irvings and trying to make them pay their fair share of property taxes. I inherited that battle by choice much to the chagrin of my Mother, her very politcal second husband and of course my brother in law's law firm partner in Saint John.
Lately I have been having a lot of fun dicing within Social Media with Michael Lebron aka "Lionel" a very snobby Yankee lawyer who lives in Hells Kitchen NY. He claims to be America's favourite contrarian. I do not wish to steal the lawyer's thunder so I will merely quote the title of his book.
"Everyone's Crazy Except You and Me...And I'm Not So Sure About You"
Best of Regards to you Rosemary
Veritas Vincit
David Raymond Amos aka Just Dave
Rosemary Stones
@David Raymond Amos Huh? I
would not be bragging about being barred from something. I really do not
care for you taking credit for my words in your oblique fashion.
Please cease and desist.
Please cease and desist.
George Smith
KC hated alcohol in his
businesses and now the provincial officials have made the Irvings the
d-fact o bootleggers of the province also. Their convenience stores now
sell the most liquor outside of Provincial liquor stores. Our elected
officials sure take good care of the Evil Empire, which might make sense
if they were actually paying fair taxes. You know, the taxes the non
Empire property owners pay.
David Raymond Amos
@George Smith FYI I have not
bought a bottle of the demon liquor in years nor do I buy Lotto tickets
nor do I play the one arm bandits that lost their arms and sprouted
electronic buttons years ago just like out voting system did recently.
Yet I well understand and agree with your point about the convenience
store business and the Evil Empire.
However I do smoke way too much for my own good. If I recall correctly ol KC did not approve of that habit either. Much to my chagrin KC's ghost and his kids and their many political pals have been making a big score on my addiction to nicotine and caffeine for many years while the aborginals make shady deals in order to secure their price of the action then whine about their blessings about the development of a Sisson mine immediately afterwards..
Please allow me a rhetorical question.that no doubt will fall on deaf ears just like the sound of another tree being felled by JDI and the cohorts in our precious back woods.
Is there no end to the greed that seems to infect the ones gaming the system that oversees us all in New Brunswick and Canada as a whole?
Methinks not. What say you?
William Roberts
'Mind-boggling'?
Not really Bob. You have lived here long enough to know this was all prearranged prior to the deal struck by the city. The province all but announced this was part of the plan. This was no coincidence. It was the Irvings being the empire and the government being their hand maiden. The best government money and power can buy.
Why now and not 10 years ago???
Not really Bob. You have lived here long enough to know this was all prearranged prior to the deal struck by the city. The province all but announced this was part of the plan. This was no coincidence. It was the Irvings being the empire and the government being their hand maiden. The best government money and power can buy.
Why now and not 10 years ago???
David Raymond Amos
@William Roberts Say Hey to
Bob for me will ya? He don't call and he don't write. I don't think he
likes me even though he draws his wages from my taxes.
William Roberts
@Marc LeBlanc It doesn't
matter either way Marc. There is nothing we can or will do about it.
Complain only to get our blood pressure to the point of heart failure
only to be lead down the garden path next week or month. We are the
sheeple and they are eating us alive one gulp at a time. Lambs to the
slaughter. Silence of the lamb.
It matters not what we believe or don't.
It matters not what we believe or don't.
David Raymond Amos
@William Roberts Nay not so Perhaps you should read my lawsuit sometime soon
William Roberts
@Dwain White Paint me severely pissed!!!
David Raymond Amos
@William Roberts Paint me rolling on the floor laughing
Su McCauley
Hello all CBC investigative
reporters! Do you smell a rat?? I beg you, take on the Irvings and
expose them for all their money grubbing ways.
I am not surprised at this assessment as it is Irving after all. I am just sickened by how they continue to strangle NB.
PLEASE!!! SOMEONE DO SOME THING!!!
I am not surprised at this assessment as it is Irving after all. I am just sickened by how they continue to strangle NB.
PLEASE!!! SOMEONE DO SOME THING!!!
David Raymond Amos
@Su McCauley Dream on about ethical CBC investigative reporters
Ned MacAllister
If ever the citizens of New
Brunswick needed proof that the Irvings have the Provincial Government
in the palm of their hand they now have that proof. The only way a
property would devaluate by that amount would be if it were destroyed by
fire or something of the sort.
This Gallant Government has really exposed itself with this show of loyalty to the IRVING EMPIRE.
This Gallant Government has really exposed itself with this show of loyalty to the IRVING EMPIRE.
@Ned MacAllister The question I would like to ask Repsol and their lawyers is did the Irvings lower the rent? If so when?
Cam Randal
The tax assessment for my shack, with the step falling off in rural New Brunswick has increased by $2000!
I suspect that all New Brunswickers got a hike in their assessment in this cash-strapped province in order to compensate for the handouts of lower taxes for the Irving empire.
I wonder if the citizens will ever have the courage to speak out and stand up against governments that give to the rich and take from the poor.
I suspect that all New Brunswickers got a hike in their assessment in this cash-strapped province in order to compensate for the handouts of lower taxes for the Irving empire.
I wonder if the citizens will ever have the courage to speak out and stand up against governments that give to the rich and take from the poor.
David Raymond Amos
@Cam Randal FYI Methinks I
will park a Motor Home on Crown Land and not be compelled to pay any
property taxes at all. Perhaps my fellow shack dwellers should too?
Rudy Winsor
disgusting....meantime we are
running a small dog grooming business here that the city forced us to
put a water meter (at our own expense) its almost as if they want
everyone who doesnt work for Irving to go live somewhere else.
@Rudy Winsor YUP
Jim Johnston
I heard the revised
assessment was done by the Gnivri Tax Reduction Company who works for a
mere 10% of the assessed tax rate. They started in SJ and will soon do
all the tax assessments for the province.
David Raymond Amos
@Jim Johnston Golly Gosh Batman I wonder if Gnivri need a consultant?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/canaport-lng-company-property-assessment-1.4006799
U.S. company hired for Canaport LNG assessment helps companies fight tax bills
Property tax reduction from $8.1 million to $2.6 million one of largest in province's history
By Robert Jones, CBC News Posted: Mar 02, 2017 2:35 PM AT97 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Willie Smith
"Something is rotten in the state of NB "
David Raymond Amos
@Willie Smith Alas poor Yorick I knew him well
John Atkins
I would love to know the
amount the province paid this company... and if that amount is above the
threshold which would require this service to have gone to a public
tender... food for thought.
John Atkins
@John Atkins Further more-
the province should have assessed it themselves and then left Irving to
decide if they wanted to hire this company to fight the assessed value.
This is BS.
David Raymond Amos
@John Atkins Good Points Sir.
Greg Miller
Greg Miller
The Province HIRES a US
company to assess the Irving property and accepts it's appraisal of 2/3s
less assessment. WHY AM I NOT SURPRISED!
David Raymond Amos
@Greg Miller I will tell you
who about to be surprised. Mr Ward, SNB's lawyers and a Yankee tax
lawyer who is far too fat dumb and happy to suit one mean old Maritimer.
Premier Gallant and his fellow lawyers cannot deny that I have a stake
in this malicious nonsense just as all New Brunswickers do. Hell the
awful truth is that most Yankees think New Brunswick is a town in New
Jersey. No kidding.
Even the mindless MLA from Saint John whom I heard arguing on the CBC political panel yesterday cannot deny that SNB used our tax dollars to pay the Yankees their wicked fees for their very questionable assessment for the benefit of the Evil Irving Empire, the very dudes his latest leader Mr Higgs used to work for. Correct Mr Savoie, Mr Austin and Mr Coon?
"Stephen Ward, director of property valuation for the province, said the idea to hire an outside party to assess the LNG property was his, and Nationwide was chosen following a public request for proposals."
"Service New Brunswick is confident the $98 million placed on the property is accurate."
BTW If anyone cares the Yankee's name is Laurence C. Stern, Esq
David Raymond Amos
@David Raymond Amos Pissed off folks really should listen to this spit and chew ASAP EH?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/political-panel-march-2-1.4007080
Bobby Burke
Douglas James
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/political-panel-march-2-1.4007080
Bobby Burke
Many difficult math questions have "Unknowns"., some even contain Unknown-Unknowns,
but this takes the 'Cake'! Twelve years of paying 7% of their bill @ $300,000,000 assessment & now assessment is cut by 2/3????. & not even mentioning the Millions the NB Gov. pays THEM, to cut OUR forests! There are no words invented yet, to properly describe this injustice.
but this takes the 'Cake'! Twelve years of paying 7% of their bill @ $300,000,000 assessment & now assessment is cut by 2/3????. & not even mentioning the Millions the NB Gov. pays THEM, to cut OUR forests! There are no words invented yet, to properly describe this injustice.
David Raymond Amos
@Bobby Burke The word is Corporatism
Definition of Corporatism by Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/corporatism
Definition of corporatism. : the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction.
Definition of Corporatism by Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/corporatism
Definition of corporatism. : the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction.
Clearly the fix is in. Ward
eveN admits he did no due pdiligence before hiring this company. Why
would he? He was likely ordered to hire them to ensure a favorable
outcome for the Irvings.
David Raymond Amos
@Douglas James I concur
Roy Kirk
They are consultants. They consulted the clients to determine what they wanted to see in the report and then gave it to them.
Not too surprising, but neither is it surprising that it is worth less than its original assessment. As an investment it is worth the present value of its future earnings. $100 million over maybe 20 years of life is $5 million per year or so. Is that what it earns for the owners?
Not too surprising, but neither is it surprising that it is worth less than its original assessment. As an investment it is worth the present value of its future earnings. $100 million over maybe 20 years of life is $5 million per year or so. Is that what it earns for the owners?
Fred Brewer
@Roy Kirk
Well we know for a fact that the investment is earning $12 million per year in land rent for Irving and those are paid in US dollars.
Well we know for a fact that the investment is earning $12 million per year in land rent for Irving and those are paid in US dollars.
David Raymond Amos
@Roy Kirk I want a job
consulting the taxpayers who fund this malicious nonsense. I'll work for
coffee, peanut butter sandwiches and cigarette
Brad Little
Shocker.
David Raymond Amos
@Brad Little I'm still breathless waiting for the other shoe to drop
Rosemary Stones
Time to end the serfdom. This is not medieval England.
Rosemary Stones
@wayne guitard All having one big wank session at their secret clubhouse.
Rosemary Stones
@Johnny Horton Did you get a cup of Timmies and some timmie bits to say that?
Content disabled.
David Raymond Amos
@Rosemary Stones My My Miss Stones (If that truly is your name) you are quite an
aggressive woman aren't ya?. I see you attack lots of folks not just
Mean Old Me. In the last comment section on this topic I supported your
King Arthur analogy and you turned around and falsely claimed I was
stalking your with a cease and desist comment like you are a lawyer or
something every bit as bad like a Green Meanie or a member of the Fake
Left. Then you accuse me of bragging about being barred when in fact
that is what my lawsuit against the CROWN is about in Federal Court.
Then to top it off you chastise me for criticizing CBC which is TOTALLY
supported by taxpayer funds as you slam the Irving Empire for merely
getting a tax concession?. Methinks you are two faced N'esy Pas? If you
don't like that comment get a real name and sue me. However watch out
for my counterclaim
Content disabled.
David Raymond Amos
@David Raymond Amos Well Well CBC thanks for proving for me what I was smelling was correct and that is Pure D Bullshit generated by CBC. As per my MO I have already created a blog and Tweeted about the Trolls within CBC. Trust that your corporate and politcal bosses should check their emails before you call me a liar.
You CBC people allow the Trolls such as the one who calls herself Ms Stones to attack everyone but CBC. When folks such as I respond to her insults and false claims you block me instead?. Hence methinks she must be a CBC employee or at the very least an NDP member supporting your employees N'esy Pas Hubby Baby Lacroix and Minister Joly?
Fred Brewer
Content disabled.
David Raymond Amos
@David Raymond Amos Well Well CBC thanks for proving for me what I was smelling was correct and that is Pure D Bullshit generated by CBC. As per my MO I have already created a blog and Tweeted about the Trolls within CBC. Trust that your corporate and politcal bosses should check their emails before you call me a liar.
You CBC people allow the Trolls such as the one who calls herself Ms Stones to attack everyone but CBC. When folks such as I respond to her insults and false claims you block me instead?. Hence methinks she must be a CBC employee or at the very least an NDP member supporting your employees N'esy Pas Hubby Baby Lacroix and Minister Joly?
Fred Brewer
My question is this: How
does a facility that cost over $750 million to build, get initially
assessed at only $300 million and then get that assessment reduced to a
paltry $98 million?
David Raymond Amos
@Fred Brewer Now Thats VERY VERY Good Question Sir.
David Raymond Amos
This comment is awaiting moderation by the site administrators.
@Fred Brewer FYI CBC blocked my comment in support of your concerns Go figure
Fred Brewer
So let me get this straight.
We used tax payer's dollars to hire a company that reduced the LNG
property assessment by over $200 million dollars? The hired company is
famous for lowering tax bills for industries and the province decides to
hire them??? Come on. Give me a break. The language I would like to
be using in this post to express my true feelings would get me banned
from CBC.
Content disabled.
David Raymond Amos
@Fred Brewer Hell I have yet
to post one curse word but I am often blocked from commenting within the
CBC domain. Please feel free vent your anger and join the club of
pissed off Maritimers. Trust that you will feel better after getting the
poison out of your system. Too bad so sad that politicians who claim to
speak for us will not do the same and get the poison infecting the
government of New Brunswick out of its system.
I will lay odds that this comment will be blocked because of the following statement
Folks should ask the people who work for the Crown Corp commonly known as the CBC why they ignored their non partisan mandate and would not even admit that my name was on five ballots during the elections I was involved in since 2004. I bet the lawyer Minster Joly would have been pissed off if such malicious actions had been practiced against her and heads would have rolled as soon as she was appointed to oversee CBC. N'esy Pas Hubby Baby Lacroix???
Hank Hanrattay
This is total and utter BS,
my business is not doing so good either because of the SJ toilet
economy, if I applied for a 67% reduction I'd be laughed at! Irving
probably owns this US company or they are best buddies with the owners. I
hate NB and I'm getting out.
David Raymond Amos
@Hank Hanrattay I love
watching a circus up close and personal so I am staying put. Furthermore
I was born here and I plan to be pushing up daisies and dandelions in
the "Place to Be" someday. Heres hoping my descendants can harvest some
wild flowers and make some fine dandelion wine for free. That is if the
Irving Empire and the damned Monsanto products don't do in all
dandelions and bumble bees too.
Freddy Rose
It is stories like this, and
the one the one about the KPMG tax scam, that make people more inclined
to be part of and/or support the underground economy.
If the system is rigged in favour of those with all the money, then make a new system. We'll call it the underground economy.
If the system is rigged in favour of those with all the money, then make a new system. We'll call it the underground economy.
David Raymond Amos
@Freddy Rose Perhaps you
should check my blog on the two topics you just mentioned. FYI My blog
about KPMG whom the Irving Empire do employ is getting far more views
that the one about this topic. The Fifth Estate has yet to air the show
and yet I already have one very interesting response from a Yankee Fed
byway of email.
wayne guitard
Well, Mr. Ward, since it was
your idea, how can we, the taxpayers who will surely have to make up the
difference, hold you accountable ? We can't vote you out. Maybe a
change in government can hold you accountable.
David Raymond Amos
@wayne guitard If you wish to
hold him accountable ask Mr Ward in writng to finally answer the email I
sent him last year or better yet ask him to see the email I am about to
send him and the Yankees just before this comment section closes
Here ya go as promised I will create a special blog just for this email Trust that CBC and their lawyers know why
From: "Darling, Don"
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 18:08:18 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: YO Gerry Lowe No doubt you know I have been talking about you and Stephen Ward and the lawyers Claude Poirier, John McNair and Laurence Stern in CBC by now N'esy Pas
To: David Amos
Thank you for your email. My intention is to send a response directly or through the appropraite department. Doing so, is very important to me.
David Raymond Amos
@David Raymond Amos
Here ya go as promised I will create a special blog just for this email Trust that CBC and their lawyers know why
From: "Darling, Don"
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 18:08:18 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: YO Gerry Lowe No doubt you know I have been talking about you and Stephen Ward and the lawyers Claude Poirier, John McNair and Laurence Stern in CBC by now N'esy Pas
To: David Amos
Thank you for your email. My intention is to send a response directly or through the appropraite department. Doing so, is very important to me.
James Freney
Almost too bizarre to be
true. A company that works to reduce taxes for petroleum companies hired
to do a tax assessment on one. I wonder who recommended that company?
This madness has got to stop.
David Raymond Amos
@James Freney The BS should stop as well
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/canaport-lng-property-tax-assessment-gallant-1.4008198
"Premier Brian Gallant says he was "surprised" by how much the property tax assessment on the Canaport LNG site in Saint John dropped after a reassessment by a U.S. company hired by the province."
Fred Brewer
Paul Bourgoin
I pondered of that question a lot 35 years ago after the RCMP hired me to investigate and testify at a coroners inquiry into the questionable demise of a man from Saint John. After five years of arguing with myself and watching history unfold (both on a personal and worldwide level) I nearly lost my faith in mankind. So to fix it I quit it all and hit the road. After three years of rambling the charity of strangers (usually coming from the poorest folks among us) and the joy found in children renewed my faith in mankind. ( BTW The Kings County Record wrote about this in June of 2004 while I was running for a seat in the the 38th Parliament while CBC pretended that my name was not on the ballot.)
In answer to your question these people you are referring to sleep like babies because they were not blessed with a conscience like you and I were. It truly is just that simple.
I am preparing to hit the road again in my personal pursuit of happiness. Yankee lawyers such as Laurence C. Stern, Esq. and David M. Lutz Q.C. should at least admit that simple human right is affirmed within their Declaration of Independence from our Crown.
David Raymond Amos
Sean Onuaillain
Brian Connell
Paul Bourgoin
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/canaport-lng-property-tax-assessment-gallant-1.4008198
"Premier Brian Gallant says he was "surprised" by how much the property tax assessment on the Canaport LNG site in Saint John dropped after a reassessment by a U.S. company hired by the province."
David Raymond Amos
@David Raymond Amos Here is an important news item that appears to contain proof that one Irving is a decent dude.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/kenneth-irving/article33791019/
Seems that Gerry Lowe has been talking to Upper Canadians long before this story broke EH?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/is-the-secretive-irving-family-ready-for-itscloseup/article28917978/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/kenneth-irving/article33791019/
Seems that Gerry Lowe has been talking to Upper Canadians long before this story broke EH?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/is-the-secretive-irving-family-ready-for-itscloseup/article28917978/
David Raymond Amos
Please surf the Internet to get ahead of the Fake News
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/canaport-lng-property-tax-assessment-appeal-1.4009062
Fred Brewer
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/canaport-lng-property-tax-assessment-appeal-1.4009062
Saint John can't appeal $202M drop in LNG assessment unless Irving Oil appeals first
Province's reassessment of property on its own initiative likely blocks challenge by city
108 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Errol Willis
The incompetence of the
department who hired a company which boasts about "reducing taxation"
for companies in the oil and gas industry, is simply astounding.
How can anyone believe that this is a fair assessment? This does absolutely nothing to change the opinion that this government is corrupt.
How can anyone believe that this is a fair assessment? This does absolutely nothing to change the opinion that this government is corrupt.
James Freney
@Errol Willis You are
correct,but unfortunately it's not just this government,red or blue
wears the same shoe. They did Irving Oil a favor by paying for the
assessment and the irony of it all is that they probably used the same
company that Irving would have selected.
linda stoddard
@Errol Willis - this is NOT incompetence- it's corruption in the first degree.
David Raymond Amos
@linda stoddard I agree and I am doing something about it right now
David Raymond Amos
@linda stoddard Ask the boss if you doubt me
From: "Gallant, Premier Brian (PO/CPM)"
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 18:08:35 +0000
Subject: RE: YO Gerry Lowe No doubt you know I have been talking about you and Stephen Ward and the lawyers Claude Poirier, John McNair and Laurence Stern in CBC by now N'esy Pas
To: David Amos
Thank you for writing to the Premier of New Brunswick. Please be assured that your email will be reviewed.
From: "Gallant, Premier Brian (PO/CPM)"
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 18:08:35 +0000
Subject: RE: YO Gerry Lowe No doubt you know I have been talking about you and Stephen Ward and the lawyers Claude Poirier, John McNair and Laurence Stern in CBC by now N'esy Pas
To: David Amos
Thank you for writing to the Premier of New Brunswick. Please be assured that your email will be reviewed.
linda stoddard
@David Raymond Amos - I also
did something about it. I emailed Brian Gallant, Blaine Higgs, ALL
Saint john and Rothesay MLA's as well as David Coon.
The liberals gave the latest gift to irving, however, it was the conservatives that granted norm's request in the first place.
NO ONE answered my email except David Coon ( the greens - not involved in this fiasco).
Monday morning I will be calling these "gentlemen" to express my concern in a not so lady like fashion.
The liberals gave the latest gift to irving, however, it was the conservatives that granted norm's request in the first place.
NO ONE answered my email except David Coon ( the greens - not involved in this fiasco).
Monday morning I will be calling these "gentlemen" to express my concern in a not so lady like fashion.
David Raymond Amos
@linda stoddard If you seek true enlightenment then perhaps you should Google my name and their email addresses.
BTW David Coon and all the other politicians have hated me with a passion since 2004. Here is just one fairly recent example as to why that is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cFOKT6TlSE
BTW David Coon and all the other politicians have hated me with a passion since 2004. Here is just one fairly recent example as to why that is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cFOKT6TlSE
David Raymond Amos
@linda stoddard FYI
From: "Darling, Don"
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 18:08:18 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: YO Gerry Lowe No doubt you know I have been talking about you and Stephen Ward and the lawyers Claude Poirier, John McNair and Laurence Stern in CBC by now N'esy Pas
To: David Amos
Thank you for your email. My intention is to send a response directly or through the appropraite department. Doing so, is very important to me.
From: "Darling, Don"
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 18:08:18 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: YO Gerry Lowe No doubt you know I have been talking about you and Stephen Ward and the lawyers Claude Poirier, John McNair and Laurence Stern in CBC by now N'esy Pas
To: David Amos
Thank you for your email. My intention is to send a response directly or through the appropraite department. Doing so, is very important to me.
Fred Brewer
No only did the province pick
up the $75,000 tab that Irving would have otherwise paid, but it also
effectively blocked Saint John from appealing. This is no coincidence.
This is by design.
David Raymond Amos
@Fred Brewer It appears that I missed something. Where did you source the $75,000 figure?
Fred Brewer
@David Raymond Amos
$75,000 is the amount our government paid to the consulting company who recommended lowering the LNG assessment by $200 million. If Irving had hired that consulting company, they would have had to pony up the $75,000 and the City of Saint John could have appealed any drop in assessment. Like I said, this was no coincidence. It was carefully thought out and designed to prevent the city from appealing.
$75,000 is the amount our government paid to the consulting company who recommended lowering the LNG assessment by $200 million. If Irving had hired that consulting company, they would have had to pony up the $75,000 and the City of Saint John could have appealed any drop in assessment. Like I said, this was no coincidence. It was carefully thought out and designed to prevent the city from appealing.
Ian Scott
Then there is Gallant who has
thrown this dude under the bus claiming no knowledge of the assessment
process and its risk to the second largest city in provinces tax
base.Now who on this planet would believe that given how tight this
little province is.?
Content disabled.
David Raymond Amos
@Ian Scott Naw the dude with
the strange hair is well paid to crawl under the bus. People such as he
will continue on for years under many red or blue mandates then collect
a fine pension when they are too old to continue screwing the rest of
us anymore.
David Raymond Amos
@David Raymond Amos Do the
moderators in CBC understand that by blocking that comment they proved
my point about public servants in spades?
Rick Aubie
What a farce it is to be stuck in this place!
David Raymond Amos
@Rick Aubie I ain't stuck I
am here by choice. I enjoy watching the circus up close and personal.
Are you old enough to remember the ostrich races in the Maritimes?
Paul Bourgoin
The Crown-land and Forest
Act,, The harvesting contract of the protected areas, Downs Gulch, Louis
LaPierre's Round table on Fish, Wildlife, and habitat, Jackopori, the
closing of most DNR offices, the laying off of DNR Forest Rangers our
eyes in our forest,, the use of deadly herbicides and pesticides,
forestry subsidies, road building subsidies to identify a few costs to
NB residents but benefiting WHO?
These practices are happening by design and benefiting only those who plan these schemes with the support of our Political representation who forgot who they represent!!.
These practices are happening by design and benefiting only those who plan these schemes with the support of our Political representation who forgot who they represent!!.
David Raymond Amos
@Paul Bourgoin Your statement begs the obvious question. Why don't you run for public office and speak for us?
John Atkins
We as the people who find this whole show have a right to know who made the decision that lead to this.
If multiple people were involved in the decision they should all equally share in the pain that is deserved.
Any elected official that played a part will clearly NEVER be elected again, and any provincial employee should be immediately fired.
All parties should also be taken to court by the people of NB on fraudulently screwing the us out of $5Mil per year.
If multiple people were involved in the decision they should all equally share in the pain that is deserved.
Any elected official that played a part will clearly NEVER be elected again, and any provincial employee should be immediately fired.
All parties should also be taken to court by the people of NB on fraudulently screwing the us out of $5Mil per year.
David Raymond Amos
@John Atkins You are correct
but do you really think the Crown will prosecute itself? However any
citizen in New Brunswick can sue about this malicious nonsense. That is
if the Crown gives you permission to do so. Now do you understand how
the Powers that Be in the Place to Be have stacked the cards in the
wicked game they play against us while purportedly ethically protecting
our rights and interests?
The city of Saint John unable
to appeal.... Paid for with public Dollars to paralyze the Justice
system and this Strategy done by design while New Brunswick Citizens are
footing the bill for those who benefit from Crown subsidies for every
project they undertake.
Where is Political Integrity, Justice that protects Joe Public?
Where is Political Integrity, Justice that protects Joe Public?
David Raymond Amos
@Paul Bourgoin Golly Gosh
Batman I repeat Democracy and Justice are myths Such stories can only be
found in fairy tale books or Hollywood
Joe Public is getting the shaft everywhere worldwide. However all the Poor Joes get the governments they deserve when they elect people such as Trump and Trudeau et al
Joe Public is getting the shaft everywhere worldwide. However all the Poor Joes get the governments they deserve when they elect people such as Trump and Trudeau et al
Wade Short
How do any of these people
sleep at night? And I don't mean the Irvings, although it definitely
applies to them, but I mean people like Stephen Ward and Brian Gallant
who had to approve the re-evaluation. They may have hired an outside
firm to evaluate the property, but they still had to approve it or send
the firm back to their computers: perhaps there was a decimal point
dropped somewhere.
At a point when refineries cost $5 billion dollars or more to construct, how does a refinery get valued at $100 million - that does not even cover the tanks
At a point when refineries cost $5 billion dollars or more to construct, how does a refinery get valued at $100 million - that does not even cover the tanks
David Raymond Amos
@Wade Short RE "How do any of these people sleep at night?"
I pondered of that question a lot 35 years ago after the RCMP hired me to investigate and testify at a coroners inquiry into the questionable demise of a man from Saint John. After five years of arguing with myself and watching history unfold (both on a personal and worldwide level) I nearly lost my faith in mankind. So to fix it I quit it all and hit the road. After three years of rambling the charity of strangers (usually coming from the poorest folks among us) and the joy found in children renewed my faith in mankind. ( BTW The Kings County Record wrote about this in June of 2004 while I was running for a seat in the the 38th Parliament while CBC pretended that my name was not on the ballot.)
In answer to your question these people you are referring to sleep like babies because they were not blessed with a conscience like you and I were. It truly is just that simple.
I am preparing to hit the road again in my personal pursuit of happiness. Yankee lawyers such as Laurence C. Stern, Esq. and David M. Lutz Q.C. should at least admit that simple human right is affirmed within their Declaration of Independence from our Crown.
leo leblanc
It stinks
David Raymond Amos
@leo leblanc Just like the pulp mill right?
Sean Onuaillain
@Ray Bungay If you vote for
Blaine Higgs you will not be getting anything different in terms of
handing out our money to Irving and other companies. It was the Alward
government - with Higgs as finance minister - that signed the forestry
agreement that gave JDI our woods to clear cut.
@Sean Onuaillain Methinks it High Time for the KISS Party of New Brunswick to appear on the ballots.
The company that Gallant's
government hired to do the assessment has a realty arm that specializes
in work for petroleum companies. Does that seem like a company that
might be sympathetic to the needs and wants of a petroleum company like
the one that owns the LNG.
It is described as follows on their website: ." Nationwide Petroleum Realty Inc. is an organization delivering transaction and support services specific to the needs of the petroleum, petrochemical, lubricants and liquids storage business."
And this: "Nationwide Petroleum Realty Inc. has represented many of the major and minor oil companies, including BP/Amoco, Shell Oil, Sunoco, El Paso/Coastal, ChevronTexaco, Citgo, Morgan Stanley (TransMontaigne), Warren Equities, Koch, ExxonMobil, Valero, Luk Oil, and Getty."
Another section has this as a header: "SERVICES TO PUMP UP YOUR PROFITS"
NBers, and Saint Johners in particular can now attest to the fact that Nationwide certainly delivers on that promise.
It is described as follows on their website: ." Nationwide Petroleum Realty Inc. is an organization delivering transaction and support services specific to the needs of the petroleum, petrochemical, lubricants and liquids storage business."
And this: "Nationwide Petroleum Realty Inc. has represented many of the major and minor oil companies, including BP/Amoco, Shell Oil, Sunoco, El Paso/Coastal, ChevronTexaco, Citgo, Morgan Stanley (TransMontaigne), Warren Equities, Koch, ExxonMobil, Valero, Luk Oil, and Getty."
Another section has this as a header: "SERVICES TO PUMP UP YOUR PROFITS"
NBers, and Saint Johners in particular can now attest to the fact that Nationwide certainly delivers on that promise.
David Raymond Amos
@Sean Onuaillain I wonder if
those Yankees enjoyed my email to their lawyer yesterday. I doubt that
our questionable politicians and their lawyers did.
eddy watts
How rich (sorry about the
pun): The city can't appeal unless Irving Co. appeals the province
GIVING it 202 million!!!!.....G who knows, maybe Irving will appeal the
GIFT(ha ha). The rich get richer, while the government spits in your
eye, and kicks you in the pants. The public gets what it deserves I
suppose.
David Raymond Amos
@eddy watts I would never apologize for a pun when I expect people to giggle in agreement.
Gerry Ferguson
This inept NB government never ceases to amaze me.
David Raymond Amos
@Gerry Ferguson Yes it kinda
like a tragic comedy composed by the long gone Greeks who created
Democracy which has become the biggest joke of all these days.
Iwish people would stop buying and dealing with the IRVINGS STARVE THEM OUT OF HERE
David Raymond Amos
@Brian Connell Thats impossible particularly if you live here. If you tried it trust that you would starve first.
Ian Scott
Maybe we could hire them for our home assessments.
David Raymond Amos
@Ian Scott You must mean the
properties that the government has not seized for unpaid taxes in order
to sell cheap to rich folks like the Irvings
Malcolm X. Ward
municipality can only
challenge a property tax assessment if the owner of the property appeals
the assessment first! lol this is funny way beyond anything, that
just Shows how much Power Irving has. Any type of assessment can be
challenged, it can be questioned. If the City took it as a super
seize in what ever agreement they have to look over the situation, it
definitely could be looked at, especially with the provinces support.
there is nothing wrong with Challenging something that looks wrong.
Something has to be done with this Scheme.
David Raymond Amos
@Malcolm X. Ward Trust that I
have been doing something but nobody will ever talk about it because
they are all too afraid of all the lawyers working behind the scene for
the Crown and the Evil Empire it supports.
Ian Scott
And Joe gel hair should look for a job with Irving.
David Raymond Amos
@Ian Scott Why should he? Hell he already has a far more secure and lucrative job with the Crown
Ron Heans
Why are we surprused
David Raymond Amos
@Ron Heans I'm not surprised. What is with the "we" stuff?
BTW I got your joke I just figured under the heading of fun one pun deserves another N'esy Pas?
BTW I got your joke I just figured under the heading of fun one pun deserves another N'esy Pas?
Roland Stewart
I'm sure the reason Irving
Oil hasn't appealed all these years is because they knew it was a fair
assessment. Be a safe bet to say they won't appeal the new assessment.
Mack Leigh
@Roland Stewart
Irving did not have to appeal since it did not matter what the assessment was. Because of their crooked deal they were capped at only paying $ 500,000.00 per year. One more time the people of this province are being ripped off and the politicians are the main reason.
Irving did not have to appeal since it did not matter what the assessment was. Because of their crooked deal they were capped at only paying $ 500,000.00 per year. One more time the people of this province are being ripped off and the politicians are the main reason.
David Raymond Amos
@Roland Stewart They had no
need to appeal because the Irving Empire had a questionable agreement on
how much tax they would be required to pay for many years going
forward. The game changed when Saint John reneged on the deal. In a
nutshell it is a dog eat dog world and the Irvings are bigtime alpha
males.
David Raymond Amos
@Mack Leigh The moderators are slow on the draw but now I see we agree. Sorry to be redundant
john bourque
When do the cops start going after the real criminals? Try hiring real men and women who don't just care about a paycheck.
David Raymond Amos
@john bourque The recent
shameful decision up in Bathurst involving cops and a killing should
answer what presume was a rhetorical question
linda stoddard
I hope norm Mcfarland is happy.
David Raymond Amos
@linda stoddard The simple minded folk usually are
Claudia Tannahill
Irving owns and leases 5.7
million acres of land in new Brunswick,how much under assessed is in the
rest of the properties.We need to have some oversight on this tax
evasion scheme they are running.Our Income tax and property tax can be
re-assessed at any time,so it should also be for corporate taxes,period.
David Raymond Amos
@Claudia Tannahill ARRR Matey I agree
Methinks we should make a bunch of them walk the plank and keel haul a few of them to. Perhaps then the remaining bureaucrats with spill the beans on the Tax Man and his cohorts and justice will be finally served on the Evil Empire that has raped and pillaged New Brunswick for way past too long. EH?.
Methinks we should make a bunch of them walk the plank and keel haul a few of them to. Perhaps then the remaining bureaucrats with spill the beans on the Tax Man and his cohorts and justice will be finally served on the Evil Empire that has raped and pillaged New Brunswick for way past too long. EH?.
Colin Seeley
Meanwhile "tiny the cat " is being remembered in this place and space.
the good news is Gallant and Rogers have less to spend on their waste.
the good news is Gallant and Rogers have less to spend on their waste.
David Raymond Amos
@Colin Seeley Too bad so sad
Tiny didn't get to leave this wonderful old world as the Fat Cat he once
was. My hero Elmer Fudd claims that the evil government starved the ol
puddy cat to death. What say you?
Roland Godin
Why do we proudly insist, for
generations, in electing incompetent and unqualified to mismanage
public policies, administration, resources and finances; it could be an
interesting case study for the academias...et voilà.
David Raymond Amos
@Roland Godin Methinks its in
our Genes. If we were not born greedy and secured government jobs then
we were born as dumb as posts and work for minimum wages in order to pay
maximum taxes.
Claudia Tannahill
How is it that a US company is needed to assesses the worth of a Canadian company?
Perhaps they have personal ties to Irving? This assessment should be challenged in court and done over by a Canadian company with no ties to Irving Big Business.
Perhaps they have personal ties to Irving? This assessment should be challenged in court and done over by a Canadian company with no ties to Irving Big Business.
David Raymond Amos
@Claudia Tannahill Dream on
James Lane
The corporate capture will be
released once the people of NB become aware what foul deeds have been
perpetrated, by the likes of our elected officials, to enable the
development of the oligarchical dynasty known as jdi. In other words,
not in our lifetimes.
David Raymond Amos
@James Lane True
Robert L. Brown
Here is a ? for Stephen Ward
did all the properties in and around the lng have their afted all You
said in another story all property taxes treated the same property tax
reduced by same percent
David Raymond Amos
@Robert L. Brown Did he answer you yet?
He and his cohorts in SNB have not answered my questions about their actions against me since we crossed paths bigtime in 2007
He and his cohorts in SNB have not answered my questions about their actions against me since we crossed paths bigtime in 2007
George Griffin
When oil was selling at
$120.00 a barrel and we were all being held over it. It made sense to
setup an export terminal to sell compressed gas. George Bush changed the
EPA laws allowing fracking in the U.S. so there went the market, out
the window. Now we are looking at a multi billion dollar pipeline to
bring gunk from Alberta also for export through Saint John via the
Irving network. This is being at a time when the U.S. again are going to
be pushing for more extraction at home to sell abroad also. Does anyone
really think we as Canadians stand a chance to sell out "gunk" which is
quite special and requires special refineries to process, stand a
chance to compete. Let's get real here. If you want to give tax breaks
to business, fine, perfect, However, they should be to a more
diversified group of companies with a future rather than the old grand
daddy of big oil.
David Raymond Amos
@George Griffin I wish Robert
Jones the all knowing gas price guy would explain to us why we are
still paying so much for fuel when oil is now so cheap.
David Webb
@David Raymond Amos Because
while the price was falling our current government increased the excise
tax 3 times that I recall as well as the 2% increase in the HST.
David Raymond Amos
@David Webb That is a big part of the tale but not all.
BTW why did you attack me earlier? Do you know why CBC blocked my justifiable response?
BTW why did you attack me earlier? Do you know why CBC blocked my justifiable response?
Ian Scott
What you better be prepared
for is the potential suit IRV oil might file on over assessment for the
last few years. Some basic undercover work in the world sites that were
similar might have avoided the issue to begin with. Never stick your
nose where you have no knowledge until you do some homework.
David Raymond Amos
@Ian Scott Trust that I would
enjoy the Irving Empire filing another lawsuit. Many lawyers know that I
am already having a lot of fun with this one.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/j-d-irving-woodlot-lawsuit-trial-1.3992584
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/j-d-irving-woodlot-lawsuit-trial-1.3992584
Paul Bourgoin
New Brunswick has been
hustled. A team effort championed by spineless, integrity-less elected
Officials supported by the Benefactor of such a public rip-off..
NO WONDER WHY NEW BRUNSWICK IS BROKE!!
NO WONDER WHY NEW BRUNSWICK IS BROKE!!
David Raymond Amos
@Paul Bourgoin New Brunswick far more more than broke Its deep in debt.
Mac Isaac
I'm not defending either the
Irving interest, nor the provincial government nor the City of Saint
John because none of them needs defending because ALL of them lose with
this assessment. Irving, in one swell swoop lost nearly 70% of its
facilities' value, making it harder to sell and/or insure. The
provincial government and the City of Saint John loses, too, because
with the lowered assessed value that means a lowered amount of tax
revenue. The only people who "seem" to benefit are those anti-Irving,
anti-provincial government and anti-Saint John types who predictably
offer nothing but doom and gloom on stories such as this or anything
similar...stories, which again predictably come from either Mr. Jones or
M. Poitras...We have to ask ourselves why are these two writers in
particular being asked for such inflammatory stories...or ARE they?
Maybe that's just the kind of journalism in which they believe so
strongly.
David Raymond Amos
@Mac Isaac Methinks I know who you work for
Geoff Estabrooks
FYI The Golden Rule for banksters, lawyers, politicians and all their very greedy corporate puppet masters is as follows:
"He With The Gold Makes The Rules"
Geoff Estabrooks
I sure wish the Gallant
government would hire someone who would reassess my property and reduce
its value by 67%. To whom do I speak in Fredericton?
David Raymond Amos
@Geoff Estabrooks Try Chris
Austin if and when he gets elected as Premier then see if he still
believe in what he is saying today. Til then best that pay your taxes or
Gallant or Higgs will take your home and trees and sell them to the
Evil Empire cheap. In the "Mean" time God forbid that some sort of
lucrative natural resource is located under the dirt you have been
faithfully paying taxes on. If so then I have no doubt a Yankee company
will seize your property under their claimed right of manifest destiny
and use the golden rule against you just like the Evil Empire does on a
daily basis.
FYI The Golden Rule for banksters, lawyers, politicians and all their very greedy corporate puppet masters is as follows:
"He With The Gold Makes The Rules"
'Mind-boggling': Canaport LNG assessment slashed by nearly $202M after tax deal repealed
Reduction saves Irving Oil $5.5M in property taxes it would have had to pay to Saint John
By Robert Jones, CBC News Posted: Mar 01, 2017 11:53 AM AT
With Canaport LNG's new assessed value, Saint John will
get $5.5 million less in property taxes this year than it would have
under last year's valuation. (CBC)
The new assessment of $98 million, down from last year's $299.5 million, is the largest ever single-year reduction in the assessed value of a property in New Brunswick.
The reduction saves Irving Oil about $5.5 million in property taxes it would have owed the city under last year's valuation, which would have generated a tax bill of $8 million.
Instead, the company will owe the city $2.6 million this year.
"It's mind-boggling," said Saint John Coun. Gerry Lowe, who pushed for an end to a 10-year-old tax deal at the LNG development that had frozen its property taxes at $500,000 per year.
The province terminated that arrangement late last year at the request of the city, and that quietly caused the province to reassess its longstanding valuation of the site.
| Year | Assessed value | Change |
| 2011 | $290.7 million | N/A |
| 2012 | $295.1 million | +1.5 per cent |
| 2013 | $299.4 million | +1.5 per cent |
| 2014 | $299.4 million | 0 per cent |
| 2015 | $299.5 million | 0 per cent |
| 2016 | $299.5 million | 0 per cent |
| 2017 | $98 million | -67.3 per cent |
"It's definitely more money than what we had, but is it fair is the question. How does something come from $300 million to $98 million? It's hard to imagine," said Lowe.
Saint John Deputy Mayor Shirley McAlary — another key player in the city's push to kill the LNG tax deal — said the city will now have to wait to see if Irving Oil appeals the new assessment to try and have it lowered further.
"The reassessment that was done was by the province, so will the company want to appeal that?" she asked.
McAlary wonders whether Canaport LNG's struggle to sell natural gas into the United States, which has a surplus of the fuel, played a role in the drop in its value — although that has been a problem for several years that previously had no effect on the property.
Not a concession for Irving
Judy Cole, a spokesperson with Service New Brunswick, said the province's old assessment on the LNG site had grown stale and the facility faces difficult financial circumstances.
'The new assessment of the Canaport LNG terminal was done by an independent third party and is not related to a tax break or concession for Irving.' - Judy Cole, Service New Brunswick
"The new assessment of the Canaport LNG terminal was done by an independent third party and is not related to a tax break or concession for Irving," Cole wrote in an email to CBC News.
"The depreciation of the property is due to external forces caused by a decline in commodity price and an over-supply in the natural gas industry. This has affected both the competitiveness and market value of the Saint John facility."
Natural gas prices in the U.S. collapsed in 2009, hindering exports from Canaport LNG, but the province ignored those problems and increased the property's assessed value in 2012, 2013 and 2015.
In addition, Canaport LNG has been profitable for Irving Oil despite its struggles.
Irving collects $12.25M US in rent
Irving Oil is financially protected under its partnership agreement with Spain-based Repsol.
Although a commercial disappointment, partnership agreements that govern the project and obtained by CBC News in 2015 show Irving Oil has been financially protected.
Irving Oil owns the property the development sits on and is solely responsible for paying its property taxes.
The company collects $12.25 million US in annual rent no matter how poorly Canaport LNG performs.
The partnership agreements show Irving Oil is also entitled to a guaranteed return on its investment in the Canaport LNG development, even if it loses money.
Repsol executive Phillip Ribbeck testified in federal tax court in 2014 that Repsol is responsible for making sure Irving Oil is paid no matter what.
"There is a continuing commitment to provide dividends to the Irving partners, as well as provide lease payments to the Irving landowner," said Ribbeck.
"Under the terms of the contracts, what effectively happens is Irving is provided for a 14 per cent return on equity," he said.
Repsol lawyer Robert McCue asked, "Is this an after-tax or a pre-tax return we're talking about?"
"After taxes," replied Ribbeck.
Irving Oil did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the new Canaport tax bill.
U.S. company hired for Canaport LNG assessment helps companies fight tax bills
Property tax reduction from $8.1 million to $2.6 million one of largest in province's history
By Robert Jones, CBC News Posted: Mar 02, 2017 2:35 PM AT
The New Brunswick government hired a U.S. company to
conduct a property assessment of Canaport LNG in Saint John that reduced
the taxes by 67 per cent. (Submitted by Canaport LNG)
The U.S. company hired by the province to conduct a property
tax assessment on the Canaport LNG site — and which recommended the
assessment be cut 67 per cent — claims to have a long history of helping
companies, including petroleum companies, fight their property tax
bills.
Nationwide Consulting Company Inc. is headquartered in Glen Rock, N.J., and was quietly hired by the province last year to assess the LNG property, even though the province has its own stable of full-time professional assessors.
"Due to the complexity of this property, Service New Brunswick hired Nationwide Consulting Company, a firm with international experience in the valuation of petroleum and liquefied natural gas facilities," says a New Brunswick government news release explaining why it went outside the civil service to evaluate the LNG site.
"According to the company, the depreciation of the Canaport LNG Terminal is due to external forces caused by a decline in commodity prices and an oversupply in the natural gas industry. This has affected both the competitiveness and market value of the Saint John facility."
Based on the recommendation of the U.S. company, the province lowered the assessed value of the LNG property from $299.5 million to $98 million. That lowered property taxes, payable to the city from Irving Oil, which owns the property Canaport LNG sits on, from $8.1 million to $2.6 million.
It's one of the largest reductions in the assessed value of a non-bankrupt commercial property ever granted in New Brunswick.
Last year when the new potash mine outside Sussex permanently shut down, the province lowered its property tax assessment by $73 million, or 46 per cent.
In accepting the recommendation of Nationwide Consulting to lower the LNG property assessment by 67 per cent, the province called the company an "independent third party" in the matter, although in descriptions of itself, Nationwide writes mostly about its work on behalf of businesses to persuade local authorities to lower property taxes.
"Nationwide Consulting Company, Inc. has earned its reputation for excellence in the fields of appraisal and property tax," it claims on its website.
"We are committed to providing quality service, backed by over thirty years of experience, including protecting your property from excessive taxation (and) reducing your tax liability from overvaluation and over assessment."
On the particular issue of petroleum properties, Nationwide publicly lists no governments as clients, instead providing a long list of oil and chemical companies it has helped with property valuation issues.
"Our clients are Exxon Mobil, Chevron Texaco, BP, Shell, Sunoco,
Hess, Valero, Hexion, BASF, DuPont, Tesoro, Marathon, LukOil, Buckeye,
Kinder-Morgan, Citgo, Flint Hills-Koch, TransMontaigne, IMTT,
Gulf-Cumberland, US Oil, and other major and secondary petroleum
companies," Nationwide writes on its website.
Saint John Coun. Gerry Lowe said he wants to know more about the assessment that was done on the LNG site and why a U.S. company that regularly challenges tax assessments and often works for oil companies was picked.
"If they represent all these oil companies I don't know how the province would hire them," Lowe said.
Nationwide's petroleum specialist, Gregg Manzione, did not immediately respond to a request for an interview about the company's role in assessing the LNG property.
Stephen Ward, director of property valuation for the province, said the idea to hire an outside party to assess the LNG property was his, and Nationwide was chosen following a public request for proposals.
Although the company often represents petroleum companies trying to get property taxes lowered, it also has a record of working with governments. He said he does not think Nationwide has ever done any work for Canaport LNG or its owners.
"They work on both sides," Ward said. "To this point I am not aware, to my knowledge, that they have done any work for Repsol or Irving in the past."
"Service New Brunswick is confident the $98 million placed on the property is accurate."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/canaport-lng-property-tax-assessment-gallant-1.4008198
Premier Brian Gallant says he was "surprised" by how much the
property tax assessment on the Canaport LNG site in Saint John dropped
after a reassessment by a U.S. company hired by the province.
The government's property tax assessment department slashed the appraised value of the property on the city's east side by nearly $202 million for 2017, the first year Irving Oil is scheduled to pay full taxes on the site to the city.
The 67 per cent reduction, based on the recommendation of Nationwide Consulting Company Inc., saves Irving Oil about $5.5 million in property taxes it would have owed the city under last year's valuation, which would have generated a tax bill of $8 million.
Gallant told reporters Friday he was not involved in choosing the consultant, which has a long list of oil and chemical companies it has helped with property valuation issues as clients.
The premier said everyone expected some reduction, but he didn't expect it to be so big.
The new assessment of $98 million, down from last year's $299.5 million, is the largest ever single-year reduction in the assessed value of a property in New Brunswick.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-hires-tax-experts-1.3945362
The City of Saint John is poised to hire two of Canada's top experts
in municipal financing as part of its fight to revamp the property tax
system.
Enid Slack and Harry Kitchen have collaborated on a number of studies looking into revenue issues for municipalities.
Slack is the director of the institute on municipal finance and
governance at the Munk School of Global Affairs at the University of
Toronto.
Kitchen is professor emeritus at Trent University in Peterborough, Ont. He specializes in Canadian taxation and public policy issues, and local government revenues.
Monday's city council agenda includes a proposal to hire the two
academics for a fee of $25,000 to perform a study and make
recommendations.
"The first step is around a study or analysis of taxation and the relationship between residents, business, commercial and institutions in Saint John," said Mayor Don Darling.
"This is acting on one of council's priorities, one of the key pillars in our priorities under growth."
Residential taxpayers have been asked to bear a larger share of the municipal tax burden in recent years.
An investigation by CBC reporter Robert Jones found Saint John
homeowners now pay about 61 per cent of city taxes, up from 55 per cent
in 2000.
Saint John councillors have been particularly concerned about tax breaks granted over the years to industry. Those breaks extend to crude oil storage tanks and pipelines.
Pressure from the city recently led to the provincial government rescinding a special 25-year deal for the Canaport LNG terminal that has cost the city tens of millions over the years.
According to the CBC investigation, up to $3.5 billion worth of property in New Brunswick enjoys some kind of special tax treatment, a tradition of concessions that has cost the province an estimated $380 million, plus interest, over nearly four decades.
Disparities in how properties are assessed has also been an issue in the province.
Tax records from Strathcona County in Alberta show in 2015 its two oil refineries paid a combined $26.4 million in property tax, with 96.7 per cent of that going to the municipality.
By contrast, Saint John's refinery pays $4.8 million in property tax.
Saint John gets 55 per cent of that, or $2.6 million, with the provincial government taking the rest.
In 2014, Kitchen and Slack wrote a report on municipal property taxation in Nova Scotia.
It notes the taxation of commercial and industrial properties at higher rates than residential properties is common practice in Canada and in many other countries.
But it adds that businesses also make less use of municipal services such as social housing, libraries and recreational
facilities and are often responsible for providing their own garbage collection, security and fire protection.
"Once we get the report back and we've been able to analyze it, I suspect we'll be having a conversation [with the province]," Darling said.
"If there's any recommendations around change to taxation, obviously that's outside our jurisdiction."
Saint John MLA Ed Doherty is the city's representative in the provincial cabinet and the likely conduit for a request to Fredericton for tax reform.
"We take taxation very, very seriously," said Doherty, who noted his government's rescinding of the Canaport LNG tax concession.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/canaport-lng-property-tax-assessment-appeal-1.4009062
The City of Saint John may not be able to appeal the $202 million
drop in the assessed value of the Canaport LNG property because the New
Brunswick government — not Irving Oil Ltd. — initiated the reduction.
Stephen Ward, director of property valuation for the province, told reporters Friday a municipality can only challenge a property tax assessment if the owner of the property appeals the assessment first.
"That's the only opportunity a third party can contest an assessment," Ward said.
That means if Irving Oil is satisfied with Canaport LNG's newly reduced assessment, there is nothing the city can do to fight it.
Earlier this week, Saint John Coun. Gerry Lowe raised the possibility of the city appealing the new LNG assessment, which reduced the property taxes the company would have had to pay the municipality under last year's valuation by $5.5 million.
But the province may have blocked that option by the way it has handled the issue.
The city and province had expected Irving Oil to appeal a $300 million assessment for the Canaport LNG terminal, which the province had valued it at for the last several years. An appeal by Irving would have permitted the city to intervene in the issue.
It still can if Irving Oil appeals the new $98 million assessment, but the company has given no indication it will.
"(That's) the only mechanism in place for a third party," Ward said.
Irving Oil has 30 days from receiving its assessment to decide.
On Wednesday, the province revealed it had cut the assessed value of
the Canaport LNG site on its own initiative from $299.5 million to $98
million, even though Irving Oil was entitled to challenge the higher
number for years to save money on assessment fees and never did.
Every landowner in New Brunswick is required to pay a fee for the cost of assessing their own property, which is set at $1.94 for every $10,000 of assessed value.
In Irving Oil's case, it has been charged $58,000 per year in assessment fees for the Canaport LNG site because of its high assessment.
Ward said the company could have challenged that by appealing the $300 million assessment but never did.
"Irving Oil had the opportunity each year to appeal that portion of their property value and they have not done that in past years," Ward said.
Despite that, the province decided on its own to undertake a review of the property's value just before it was set to become fully taxable.
The province employs its own group of professional assessors, including specialists in heavy industrial properties, but decided to pay $75,000 to hire Nationwide Consulting — a company from Glen Rock, N.J. — to conduct the LNG assessment.
Ward said it was the first time in 10 years the province has hired an outside firm to conduct a property assessment, and the company recommended cutting the LNG property valuation significantly.
Ward said he accepts the new assessment as accurate, but would not concede that the department's old assessments were inaccurate.
Nationwide Consulting Company Inc. is headquartered in Glen Rock, N.J., and was quietly hired by the province last year to assess the LNG property, even though the province has its own stable of full-time professional assessors.
"Due to the complexity of this property, Service New Brunswick hired Nationwide Consulting Company, a firm with international experience in the valuation of petroleum and liquefied natural gas facilities," says a New Brunswick government news release explaining why it went outside the civil service to evaluate the LNG site.
"According to the company, the depreciation of the Canaport LNG Terminal is due to external forces caused by a decline in commodity prices and an oversupply in the natural gas industry. This has affected both the competitiveness and market value of the Saint John facility."
Based on the recommendation of the U.S. company, the province lowered the assessed value of the LNG property from $299.5 million to $98 million. That lowered property taxes, payable to the city from Irving Oil, which owns the property Canaport LNG sits on, from $8.1 million to $2.6 million.
It's one of the largest reductions in the assessed value of a non-bankrupt commercial property ever granted in New Brunswick.
Company works to lower taxes
Last year when the new potash mine outside Sussex permanently shut down, the province lowered its property tax assessment by $73 million, or 46 per cent.
In accepting the recommendation of Nationwide Consulting to lower the LNG property assessment by 67 per cent, the province called the company an "independent third party" in the matter, although in descriptions of itself, Nationwide writes mostly about its work on behalf of businesses to persuade local authorities to lower property taxes.
'How independent are they? It adds more confusion and makes you wonder.' - Gerry Lowe, Saint John city councillor
"Nationwide Consulting Company, Inc. has earned its reputation for excellence in the fields of appraisal and property tax," it claims on its website.
"We are committed to providing quality service, backed by over thirty years of experience, including protecting your property from excessive taxation (and) reducing your tax liability from overvaluation and over assessment."
Company lists clients, not governments
On the particular issue of petroleum properties, Nationwide publicly lists no governments as clients, instead providing a long list of oil and chemical companies it has helped with property valuation issues.
Nationwide Consulting Company Inc.,
headquartered in Glen Rock, N.J., has a long list on its website of the
oil and chemical companies it has helped with property assessment
issues. (Nationwide Consulting Company Inc.)
Saint John Coun. Gerry Lowe said he wants to know more about the assessment that was done on the LNG site and why a U.S. company that regularly challenges tax assessments and often works for oil companies was picked.
"If they represent all these oil companies I don't know how the province would hire them," Lowe said.
Nationwide's petroleum specialist, Gregg Manzione, did not immediately respond to a request for an interview about the company's role in assessing the LNG property.
Stephen Ward, director of property valuation for the province, said the idea to hire an outside party to assess the LNG property was his, and Nationwide was chosen following a public request for proposals.
Although the company often represents petroleum companies trying to get property taxes lowered, it also has a record of working with governments. He said he does not think Nationwide has ever done any work for Canaport LNG or its owners.
"They work on both sides," Ward said. "To this point I am not aware, to my knowledge, that they have done any work for Repsol or Irving in the past."
"Service New Brunswick is confident the $98 million placed on the property is accurate."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/canaport-lng-property-tax-assessment-gallant-1.4008198
Premier Brian Gallant 'surprised' by 67% drop in Canaport LNG tax assessment
Gallant says he had no role in choosing U.S. consultant hired by province to assess the property
CBC News
Posted: Mar 03, 2017 11:08 AM AT
Nationwide Consulting Company Inc., headquartered in Glen
Rock, N.J., was quietly hired by the Gallant government last year to
assess the Canaport LNG property in Saint John, even though the province
has its own full-time professional assessors. (Submitted by Canaport
LNG)
The government's property tax assessment department slashed the appraised value of the property on the city's east side by nearly $202 million for 2017, the first year Irving Oil is scheduled to pay full taxes on the site to the city.
The 67 per cent reduction, based on the recommendation of Nationwide Consulting Company Inc., saves Irving Oil about $5.5 million in property taxes it would have owed the city under last year's valuation, which would have generated a tax bill of $8 million.
- U.S. company hired for Canaport LNG assessment helps companies fight tax bills
- 'Mind-boggling': Canaport LNG assessment slashed by nearly $202M after tax deal repealed
Gallant told reporters Friday he was not involved in choosing the consultant, which has a long list of oil and chemical companies it has helped with property valuation issues as clients.
The premier said everyone expected some reduction, but he didn't expect it to be so big.
The new assessment of $98 million, down from last year's $299.5 million, is the largest ever single-year reduction in the assessed value of a property in New Brunswick.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-hires-tax-experts-1.3945362
Saint John to hire experts to look at overhaul of tax system
Enid Slack and Harry Kitchen have extensive backgrounds in municipal finance
By Connell Smith, CBC News Posted: Jan 23, 2017 6:30 AM AT
If approved by city council Monday night, the study will
analyze whether the property tax burden is shared fairly among
residential, commercial and industrial property owners (CBC)
Enid Slack and Harry Kitchen have collaborated on a number of studies looking into revenue issues for municipalities.
Enid Slack is the director of the institute
on municipal finance and governance at the Munk School of Global Affairs
at the University of Toronto. (Munk School of Global Affairs)
Kitchen is professor emeritus at Trent University in Peterborough, Ont. He specializes in Canadian taxation and public policy issues, and local government revenues.
Harry Kitchen specializes in Canadian taxation and public policy issues and local government revenues. (Trent University)
"The first step is around a study or analysis of taxation and the relationship between residents, business, commercial and institutions in Saint John," said Mayor Don Darling.
"This is acting on one of council's priorities, one of the key pillars in our priorities under growth."
Greater tax burden for residents
Residential taxpayers have been asked to bear a larger share of the municipal tax burden in recent years.
Saint John Mayor Don Darling says city council is acting on one of its priorities in looking into property tax fairness (CBC)
Saint John councillors have been particularly concerned about tax breaks granted over the years to industry. Those breaks extend to crude oil storage tanks and pipelines.
Pressure from the city recently led to the provincial government rescinding a special 25-year deal for the Canaport LNG terminal that has cost the city tens of millions over the years.
According to the CBC investigation, up to $3.5 billion worth of property in New Brunswick enjoys some kind of special tax treatment, a tradition of concessions that has cost the province an estimated $380 million, plus interest, over nearly four decades.
- Brian Gallant announces Canaport LNG tax deal will be repealed
- Property tax concessions have cost N.B. nearly $380M over 40 years
Disparities in how properties are assessed has also been an issue in the province.
Tax records from Strathcona County in Alberta show in 2015 its two oil refineries paid a combined $26.4 million in property tax, with 96.7 per cent of that going to the municipality.
By contrast, Saint John's refinery pays $4.8 million in property tax.
Saint John gets 55 per cent of that, or $2.6 million, with the provincial government taking the rest.
Nova Scotia studied in 2014
In 2014, Kitchen and Slack wrote a report on municipal property taxation in Nova Scotia.
It notes the taxation of commercial and industrial properties at higher rates than residential properties is common practice in Canada and in many other countries.
But it adds that businesses also make less use of municipal services such as social housing, libraries and recreational
facilities and are often responsible for providing their own garbage collection, security and fire protection.
'I suspect we'll be having a conversation.' - Don Darling, Saint John mayorIf the study does lead to recommendations for the reform of the provincial property tax system the file will have to be turned over to the provincial government.
"Once we get the report back and we've been able to analyze it, I suspect we'll be having a conversation [with the province]," Darling said.
"If there's any recommendations around change to taxation, obviously that's outside our jurisdiction."
Saint John MLA Ed Doherty is the city's representative in the provincial cabinet and the likely conduit for a request to Fredericton for tax reform.
"We take taxation very, very seriously," said Doherty, who noted his government's rescinding of the Canaport LNG tax concession.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/canaport-lng-property-tax-assessment-appeal-1.4009062
Saint John can't appeal $202M drop in LNG assessment unless Irving Oil appeals first
Province's reassessment of property on its own initiative likely blocks challenge by city
By Robert Jones, CBC News Posted: Mar 03, 2017 5:23 PM AT
Stephen Ward, New Brunswick's director of property
valuation, says Saint John won't be able to challenge the Canaport LNG
assessment unless Irving Oil appeals the valuation within 30 days of
notification. (CBC)
Stephen Ward, director of property valuation for the province, told reporters Friday a municipality can only challenge a property tax assessment if the owner of the property appeals the assessment first.
"That's the only opportunity a third party can contest an assessment," Ward said.
That means if Irving Oil is satisfied with Canaport LNG's newly reduced assessment, there is nothing the city can do to fight it.
- Premier Brian Gallant 'surprised' by 67% drop in Canaport LNG tax assessment
- U.S. company hired for Canaport LNG assessment helps companies fight tax bills
Earlier this week, Saint John Coun. Gerry Lowe raised the possibility of the city appealing the new LNG assessment, which reduced the property taxes the company would have had to pay the municipality under last year's valuation by $5.5 million.
But the province may have blocked that option by the way it has handled the issue.
The city and province had expected Irving Oil to appeal a $300 million assessment for the Canaport LNG terminal, which the province had valued it at for the last several years. An appeal by Irving would have permitted the city to intervene in the issue.
It still can if Irving Oil appeals the new $98 million assessment, but the company has given no indication it will.
"(That's) the only mechanism in place for a third party," Ward said.
Irving Oil has 30 days from receiving its assessment to decide.
The New Brunswick government employs its own
group of professional assessors, including specialists in heavy
industrial properties, but decided to hire Nationwide Consulting to
conduct the Canaport LNG assessment. (Submitted by Canaport LNG)
Every landowner in New Brunswick is required to pay a fee for the cost of assessing their own property, which is set at $1.94 for every $10,000 of assessed value.
In Irving Oil's case, it has been charged $58,000 per year in assessment fees for the Canaport LNG site because of its high assessment.
Ward said the company could have challenged that by appealing the $300 million assessment but never did.
"Irving Oil had the opportunity each year to appeal that portion of their property value and they have not done that in past years," Ward said.
Despite that, the province decided on its own to undertake a review of the property's value just before it was set to become fully taxable.
The province employs its own group of professional assessors, including specialists in heavy industrial properties, but decided to pay $75,000 to hire Nationwide Consulting — a company from Glen Rock, N.J. — to conduct the LNG assessment.
Ward said it was the first time in 10 years the province has hired an outside firm to conduct a property assessment, and the company recommended cutting the LNG property valuation significantly.
Ward said he accepts the new assessment as accurate, but would not concede that the department's old assessments were inaccurate.
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