Liberals make surplus disappear with new carbon-pricing plan
The liberals had to come up
with something to help them win the next election, after that, if they
win there will be more taxes coming on carbon and then they will deflect
and say it was caused by Trudeau.
Province's decision to divert $180M in gas-tax revenue, means money won't be available for other programs
By Jacques Poitras, CBC News
Posted: Dec 19, 2017 7:00 AM AT
74 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Thomas Imber
Keep borrowing and spending,
keep watching as young and talented New Brunswickers leave the province
(after receiving "free" tuition at the NB taxpayers expense), keep
playing games and keep blaming the civil service, keep putting the
interests of the Liberal party ahead of the interests of New
Brunswickers and the province will keep showing up on the bottom of
national lists (lowest median income being the most recent example).
David Raymond Amos
@Thomas Imber After running
in five elections as an Independent while my fellow Maritimers ignored
me, barred me, arrested me, assaulted me, stole my Harley, cancelled my
drivers licence and denied me a Health Care card and my pensions and
made fun of me methinks I have earned the right to say that folks get
the governments they deserve N'esy Pas?
Mario Doucet
NB will fight GHG emissions by funding hockey arenas in Moncton.
David Raymond Amos
@Mario Doucet Or by leaving
the province or going broke and having their cars and trucks repossessed
by the banksters supporting the liberals
Lloyd Joslin
Our deficet increased because they have stolen from us, ATCON for starters, 70 million. Liberals are famous for tax and waste.
David Raymond Amos
@Lloyd Joslin Methinks we should not forget the Caisse Populaire de Shippagan N'esy Pas?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/31-5m-caisse-bailout-cheaper-than-failure-burke-says-1.647574
"The Liberal government's first budget, which came down this month, earmarked a possible $60 million to help stabilize New Brunswick's Credit Union system, and a maximum amount to stabilize the troubled Shippagan institution, which has lost $60 million over the past four years."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/nb-government-blasted-for-aiding-caisse-populaire/article1072399/
CHRIS MORRIS FREDERICTON
Published March 28, 2007
"The New Brunswick government is under fire for propping up a financially troubled credit union with $60-million in public funds.
Just two weeks after Premier Shawn Graham's Liberal government raised personal and business taxes it announced a plan yesterday to bail out the caisse populaire in Shippagan, which is foundering in a sea of debt.
Opposition Conservatives condemned the deal.
"They have opened the door to more stupid agreements like this," said interim Conservative leader Jeannot Volpé.
"What's next? The banks? Underfunded pension funds? It's scary."
Mr. Volpé said taxpayers have no hope of return from the $60-million package, which includes funds to support the credit union system in the province in addition to bailing out the Shippagan operation.
The Tories also accused the Liberals of playing politics since former Liberal premier Camille Thériault is chief executive officer of the Acadian credit union federation, which will oversee the Shippagan operation."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/31-5m-caisse-bailout-cheaper-than-failure-burke-says-1.647574
"The Liberal government's first budget, which came down this month, earmarked a possible $60 million to help stabilize New Brunswick's Credit Union system, and a maximum amount to stabilize the troubled Shippagan institution, which has lost $60 million over the past four years."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/nb-government-blasted-for-aiding-caisse-populaire/article1072399/
CHRIS MORRIS FREDERICTON
Published March 28, 2007
"The New Brunswick government is under fire for propping up a financially troubled credit union with $60-million in public funds.
Just two weeks after Premier Shawn Graham's Liberal government raised personal and business taxes it announced a plan yesterday to bail out the caisse populaire in Shippagan, which is foundering in a sea of debt.
Opposition Conservatives condemned the deal.
"They have opened the door to more stupid agreements like this," said interim Conservative leader Jeannot Volpé.
"What's next? The banks? Underfunded pension funds? It's scary."
Mr. Volpé said taxpayers have no hope of return from the $60-million package, which includes funds to support the credit union system in the province in addition to bailing out the Shippagan operation.
The Tories also accused the Liberals of playing politics since former Liberal premier Camille Thériault is chief executive officer of the Acadian credit union federation, which will oversee the Shippagan operation."
Chantal LeBouthi
Is this even legal
David Raymond Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi FYI there
is a New Brunswick in New Jersey just southwest of Manhattan that
Yankees often confuse us with. However according to "Tweeter And The
Monkey Man" a song by my heroes The Traveling Wilburys "In Jersey
anything's legal as long as you don't get caught"
Methinks the politicians in our poor little old New Brunswick believe in the same rules N'esy Pas
Methinks the politicians in our poor little old New Brunswick believe in the same rules N'esy Pas
Craig O'Donnell
The Gallant government will go down as the "Keystone Kops" of government ineptitude.
Fred Brewer
@Colin Seeley "And the “ picture of ineptitude “ photo has to be that lady of ineptitude . .....Cathy Rogers"
She has that "deer in the headlights" look, eh?
She has that "deer in the headlights" look, eh?
David Raymond Amos
@Fred Brewer Methinks thou doth jest too much N'esy Pas? If I were a deer I would feel somewhat insulted
Murray Brown
Global warming = Money Grab -
That's why liberals, socialist and left leaning groups all support the
rhetoric and unreliable and mostly unproven science behind the hype.
Biggest fake news story of the decade being used to suck even more money
out of the working and middle classes.
David Raymond Amos
@Murray Brown "Global warming
= Money Grab - That's why liberals, socialist and left leaning groups
all support the rhetoric and unreliable and mostly unproven science
behind the hype."
YUP
YUP
Shawn McShane
All provinces, countries, EU are going broke servicing the interest on debt. By the end of March 2018, New Brunswick interest payments will be $701 million.
Carbon tax is just another revenue to service debt, hence the bandwagon. NB governments have taxed NBers so much that we can't afford higher taxes. NDP leader Jennifer McKenzie calling for an additional carbon tax on top of the gas tax proves they are out of touch in this highest taxed lowest wages paid province.
All provinces, countries, EU are going broke servicing the interest on debt. By the end of March 2018, New Brunswick interest payments will be $701 million.
Carbon tax is just another revenue to service debt, hence the bandwagon. NB governments have taxed NBers so much that we can't afford higher taxes. NDP leader Jennifer McKenzie calling for an additional carbon tax on top of the gas tax proves they are out of touch in this highest taxed lowest wages paid province.
stephen blunston
@Shawn McShane ndp don't hav a clue with all their tax raising
David Raymond Amos
@stephen blunston I know for a
fact that the NDP are clueless. At least the very least nobody should
deny that I debated their new leader a few times during the last federal
election while I argued the Conservatives in Federal Court. Then there
is the former NDP leader and his Conservative cohorts, all they can
seem to manage to do is send me butter tarts and well wishes. It appears
to be another case of dumb and dumber to me. Its is a small wonder the
liberals seem higher in the polls when the only other options are the
questionable PANB and new political party that nobody will talk about
for some strange reason. (If I mention that party I am blocked
instantly) Go Figure why I shake my head at the nonsense of it all as
even the Greens and CBC continue to play dumb while I have been arguing
the liberals in Federal Court for over two years now..
Mario Doucet
The liberals had to come up with something to help them win the next
election, after that, if they win there will be more taxes coming on
carbon and then they will deflect and say it was caused by Trudeau.
David Raymond Amos
@Mario Doucet The liberals
like to think that they are Canada's Natural Governing Party" and with
cool young dudes such a Trudeau, Morneau and Gallant helping Madame
Rogers balance their books what could possibly go wrong?
Jonas Smith
2018 can't come soon enough for this Sadim touch government.
Shawn McShane
@Jonas Smith I had to look that up.
With the Sadim touch, you ruin everything you touch.
With the Sadim touch, you ruin everything you touch.
David Raymond Amos
@Shawn McShane One thing I know for certain is that no political party on the planet has the Midas Touch
Jason Inness
I think we need to be very
clear on this issue. The deficit isn't increasing because the Liberals
didn't bring in a carbon tax. The deficit is increasing because the
Liberals decided to spend even more money that the government doesn't
have. The longer the voters of this province wait before making a serious change (away from the old parties), the more difficult and drastic that change is going to have to be. We should have changed the way we vote several elections ago. I hope people don't make the same mistakes again
David Raymond Amos
@Jason Inness "We should have changed the way we vote several elections ago. I hope people don't make the same mistakes again"
I have been beating that drum for years but the awful truth is nobody cares.
I have been beating that drum for years but the awful truth is nobody cares.
Liberals make surplus disappear with new carbon-pricing plan
Province's decision to divert $180M in gas-tax revenue, means money won't be available for other programs
By Jacques Poitras, CBC News Posted: Dec 19, 2017 7:00 AM AT
Minister of Finance Cathy Rogers said the surplus would help pay down debt. (Maria Jose Burgos/CBC)
Premier Brian Gallant's carbon-pricing plan could make projected Liberal budget surpluses vanish before they even appear.
The government's decision to divert $180 million in gas-tax revenue to a special climate change fund by 2022 means that money won't be available for other programs.
But Environment Minister Serge Rousselle has suggested there'll be room in the budget to keep funding those other programs: a fiscal cushion of surpluses that the Liberals expect starting in 2021.
"We did an excellent job in reducing the deficit," Rousselle said. "We did what we had to do."
Without an additional carbon tax on top of existing revenue, a continuation of current levels of spending would eat into projected surpluses, eroding the province's ability to pay down some of its massive $14 billion debt.
And the Liberal deficit reduction so far — while real — isn't enough to change that reality, according to Herb Emery, the Vaughan chair in regional economics at the University of New Brunswick.
"They created some room for themselves, but they're basically committing to borrowing," he said.
"What we're really leaving now is a legacy for future generations
that will be greener and cleaner, but they're paying for it," he said.
"The more we borrow and the more we accumulate debt, [the more] we're asking future taxpayers or — if we get bailed out federally — federal taxpayers to cover this conversion."
The Liberal financial plan projects a narrow $21 million surplus for 2021, not nearly enough to cover the approximately $108 million of gas tax money that would be diverted that year.
The projections don't go beyond 2020-21, making it unclear on what basis Rousselle believes there will be room in the budget to cover future shortfalls.
The gas-tax diversion will work this way: rather than impose a new carbon tax, the Liberals will begin shifting money from the 15.5-cent-per-litre gas tax into a separate climate fund, starting next year.
The Liberals will redirect 2.33 cents next year, representing $37.4 million in the fund.
By 2022-23, the diversion will grow to 11.64 cents, worth $180.2 million.
The fund will be earmarked specifically for climate-change measures, including reducing emissions, mitigating the impacts of global warming, and researching new energy solutions.
That means it won't be available for the programs now funded by the full gas tax.
NDP leader Jennifer McKenzie called the plan "a shell game. …The gas tax is being used now for health care and education spending and it's not available. It's smoke and mirrors."
She called for an additional carbon tax on top of the gas tax, not a diversion of existing revenue, so that other government spending doesn't have to be sacrificed.
"The new carbon tax would be a new source of revenue," she said.
But asked about that scenario repeatedly last week, Rousselle insisted several time that reduced deficits will give the Liberals room within their future budgets to pay for everything.
That undercuts comments last month from Finance Minister Cathy Rogers, who said running surpluses would help pay down the accumulated debt of the province, now approaching $14 billion.
"Of course we know that there's a great cost to servicing our debt," Rogers said.
By "addressing this and redirecting the debt servicing costs," Rogers said, some of the $700 million spent on the debt would be free for program spending.
But surpluses can't be spent twice: if they are used to fill a spending gap created by the gas tax diversion, the debt can't be paid down at the same time.
"At some point you have to pay down your debt and deficits, which would be future surpluses," Emery said.
"So yes, they're basically saying in the future, we're going to have this better situation fiscally and we're going to spend some of that now because the needs are pressing in order to deal with climate change."
A Finance Department spokesperson said Monday that the five-year gas-tax and climate-fund projections released last Thursday do not affect the forecast of a $21 million surplus in 2020-21.
The government's decision to divert $180 million in gas-tax revenue to a special climate change fund by 2022 means that money won't be available for other programs.
But Environment Minister Serge Rousselle has suggested there'll be room in the budget to keep funding those other programs: a fiscal cushion of surpluses that the Liberals expect starting in 2021.
- Despite federal doubts, Brian Gallant unwavering — for now — on subtle 'carbon tax'
- Federal environment minister questions province's carbon price plan
"We did an excellent job in reducing the deficit," Rousselle said. "We did what we had to do."
Without an additional carbon tax on top of existing revenue, a continuation of current levels of spending would eat into projected surpluses, eroding the province's ability to pay down some of its massive $14 billion debt.
And the Liberal deficit reduction so far — while real — isn't enough to change that reality, according to Herb Emery, the Vaughan chair in regional economics at the University of New Brunswick.
"They created some room for themselves, but they're basically committing to borrowing," he said.
Environment Minister Serge Rouselle (CBC)
"The more we borrow and the more we accumulate debt, [the more] we're asking future taxpayers or — if we get bailed out federally — federal taxpayers to cover this conversion."
The Liberal financial plan projects a narrow $21 million surplus for 2021, not nearly enough to cover the approximately $108 million of gas tax money that would be diverted that year.
'At some point you have to pay down your debt and deficits, which would be future surpluses.' - Herb Emery, Vaughan chair in regional economics at UNB
The projections don't go beyond 2020-21, making it unclear on what basis Rousselle believes there will be room in the budget to cover future shortfalls.
The gas-tax diversion will work this way: rather than impose a new carbon tax, the Liberals will begin shifting money from the 15.5-cent-per-litre gas tax into a separate climate fund, starting next year.
The Liberals will redirect 2.33 cents next year, representing $37.4 million in the fund.
By 2022-23, the diversion will grow to 11.64 cents, worth $180.2 million.
The fund will be earmarked specifically for climate-change measures, including reducing emissions, mitigating the impacts of global warming, and researching new energy solutions.
That means it won't be available for the programs now funded by the full gas tax.
Smoke and mirrors
NDP leader Jennifer McKenzie called the plan "a shell game. …The gas tax is being used now for health care and education spending and it's not available. It's smoke and mirrors."
She called for an additional carbon tax on top of the gas tax, not a diversion of existing revenue, so that other government spending doesn't have to be sacrificed.
Herb Emery, the Vaughan chair in regional economics at the University of New Brunswick. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
But asked about that scenario repeatedly last week, Rousselle insisted several time that reduced deficits will give the Liberals room within their future budgets to pay for everything.
That undercuts comments last month from Finance Minister Cathy Rogers, who said running surpluses would help pay down the accumulated debt of the province, now approaching $14 billion.
"Of course we know that there's a great cost to servicing our debt," Rogers said.
By "addressing this and redirecting the debt servicing costs," Rogers said, some of the $700 million spent on the debt would be free for program spending.
But surpluses can't be spent twice: if they are used to fill a spending gap created by the gas tax diversion, the debt can't be paid down at the same time.
"At some point you have to pay down your debt and deficits, which would be future surpluses," Emery said.
"So yes, they're basically saying in the future, we're going to have this better situation fiscally and we're going to spend some of that now because the needs are pressing in order to deal with climate change."
A Finance Department spokesperson said Monday that the five-year gas-tax and climate-fund projections released last Thursday do not affect the forecast of a $21 million surplus in 2020-21.
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