EUB punts rate hearing as NB Power studies $122M smart meter plan
EUB agrees to suspend hearing so it can deal first with NB Power's proposed $122M purchase of smart meters
By Robert Jones, Posted: Sep 26, 2017 6:00 AM AT
NB Power wants to purchase and install smart meters before
it has a rate design hearing. (Ryan Pilon/CBC)
An effort to redesign the way NB Power charges customers for
electricity — generally viewed as bad news for those who heat with
electricity — has been suspended by the New Brunswick Energy and
Utilities Board for one year.
The EUB has agreed to consider an upcoming NB Power application to
spend $122 million on new "smart meters" for homes and businesses first.
"The Board finds that the AMI (Advanced Metering Infrastructure)
application should precede the rate design hearing and therefore it is
in the public interest to grant an adjournment," ruled EUB chairman
Raymond Gorman in a brief hearing last week.
Energy and Utilities Board chair Raymond
Gorman says the board has delayed the rate design hearing for one year.
(Pat Richard/CBC)
NB Power has been under pressure from the EUB to better match prices
it charges for electricity to the cost of producing and distributing
power. That could see consumers paying substantially different prices
for power between summer and winter — even between day and night.
But the utility has argued there is little room to make substantial
changes like that until its entire inventory of power meters is
upgraded.
"It is NB Power's submission that the rate design proceeding is …
premature because it does contemplate discussion of rate design options
that might not be available depending on … (smart meter) deployment," NB
Power's senior legal counsel John Furey said during arguments for the
suspension.
Tracking more frequent
Unlike current units that have to be physically visited to be read,
smart meters will connect directly to NB Power computers, allowing
individual customers to have electricity consumption tracked several
times an hour instead of once a month.
The utility says this will allow it to charge a variety of rates for
electricity — more when consumption is higher, such as in the mornings,
on weekends and during winter — and less when consumption is lower.
"We are going from reading a customer's meter once a month, so 12
times a year, up to 12 times an hour," former NB Power executive Neil
Larlee said during testimony in front of the EUB last February.
Smart meters for $122M
But the new meters are expensive, an estimated $92 million to acquire
one for each customer and another $30 million to have them installed
and made operational.
It's an expense that largely requires EUB approval, something the
regulator is expected to hear evidence on this winter and rule on by
next spring. NB Power said without that decision being made first,
redesigning rates made little sense.
John Furey, NB Power's senior legal counsel,
argued for the delay in the rate design hearing until the utility
installs smart meters, which record power usage more frequently.
(LinkedIn)
"I don't see how we can have a meaningful process … because we don't
know what rate design options are available or might be precluded in the
event the (smart meter) decision is not to deploy or to deploy," said
Furey.
Because those who heat with electricity consume large amounts of
power during high-demand cold snaps, the rate design process is
generally expected to result in higher costs for that group.
However, NB Power has argued smart meters will allow for enough
discount periods that electric heat customers who move activities such
as laundry, dishwashing and showers into the evening will be able to
offset some or all of the increases they experience.
NB Power is expected to formally apply to buy and install smart
meters provincewide within the next two weeks as part of its next
general rate increase application.
Robert
Jones has been a reporter and producer with CBC New Brunswick since
1990. His investigative reports on petroleum pricing in New Brunswick
won several regional and national awards and led to the adoption of
price regulation in 2006.
60 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
I did not other to say one word but lots of Sheople who did not bother to Intervene n the EUB matter had lots to say about it in CBC Nesy Pas Mr Jones???
NB Power's smart meter program among plans under microscope at EUB hearing
A proposal to enact new surcharges to help pay for unexpected events will also be scrutinized
By Robert Jones, CBC NewsPosted: Feb 07, 2018 4:00 AM AT
NB Power will participate in an extended EUB hearing Wednesday in Saint John. (Shane Fowler/CBC)
NB Power makes its annual appearance in front of the Energy
and Utilities Board on Wednesday morning to seek permission to raise
electricity rates in April, but other large issues promise to dominate
what is expected to be an extended 12-day hearing.
A pricey plan to install smart meters provincewide and a proposal to
enact new surcharges to help NB Power pay for unexpected events, like
storm damage, are likely to be more contentious and time consuming than
the utility's request for an average two per cent increase in rates.
"This hearing has resulted in one of the largest volumes of evidence
filed before this Board on an NB Power matter," NB Power notes in an
opening statement it pre-filed with the utilities board.
"Evidence has moved well beyond the merits of (our) revenue requirement."
NB Power's planned smart meter deployment will be scrutinized at the EUB hearing. (CBC)
Thousands of pages of evidence have been filed on issues connected to
the hearing since October and some of that has come from experts
pushing back against NB Power's various plans.
Smart meters
More than the rate increase, NB Power`s top priority has become
winning approval for a $122.7-million plan to deploy Advanced Metering
Infrastructure (AMI), including smart meters, around New Brunswick over
the next three years.
The meters, one for each of NB Power`s 350,000 customers, are
designed to connect directly to the utility`s computers and will open up
opportunities to establish high and low rates during the day to try and
steer electricity consumption away from peak hours.
The meters also allow for homeowners to install their own generation,
like solar panels, or invest in large battery storage units to load up
on low-cost nighttime power and sell what they don't need back to the
utility.
NB Power plans to spend $122.7 million to deploy Advanced Metering Infrastructure (AMI). (Ryan Pilon/CBC)
NB Power said the meters, and an aggressive new package of consumer
energy conservation initiatives, will help flatten out expensive
wintertime consumption peaks on its system and is the key to lowering
costs and avoiding the construction of new power plants.
"NB Power believes AMI and energy smart investments are essential for
its customers and should be approved by the board," it said in its
opening statement.
"Delay in making these investments, particularly in AMI delays
progress in reaching all of the targets for reduction of energy and peak
demand."
'It will be fully debated'
But at least two outside experts hired to evaluate NB Power's smart
meter plan — and who will testify during the hearing — question the
economics of the proposal.
"With increased likelihood that NB
Power will be able to recover all costs associated with extraordinary
events, there is less pressure on the Company to control those costs."
- US energy consultant Synapse Energy
That means there will be an intense examination of the smart meter
issue in front of the board, according to Public Intervener Heather
Black.
"It will be fully debated," said Black. "When there's such a big
project at hand, questions come up. Has it been properly planned for are
the costs and benefits properly and accurately estimated?"
Also drawing criticism is a proposal to allow NB Power to levy
special surcharges when it is hit with unexpected expenses like storm
damage — a so-called rate adjustment mechanism.
NB Power has missed profit targets by wide margins in five of the
last six years in part because of an unprecedented series of weather
events.
The utility estimates it paid $63.8 million to restore power and
clean up after ice storms in December 2013, post-tropical storm Arthur
in July 2014 and more ice storms in January 2017.
NB Power worker picturing cleaning up after post-tropical storm Arthur. (CBC)
It is seeking approval for a mechanism to isolate and charge
customers extra for costs caused by "an extraordinary event or
circumstance beyond the control of the company". But opposing experts
who worry that could develop into a blank cheque for the utility are
lined up against that idea as well.
"With increased likelihood that NB Power will be able to recover all
costs associated with extraordinary events, there is less pressure on
the Company to control those costs," wrote US energy consultant Synapse
Energy who was hired by the utilities board to evaluate NB Power's
application.
"It will be a focus of the hearing certainly," Black said of the
rate adjustment mechanism idea. "I think we'll have a healthy discussion
about that."
The hearing begins Wednesday morning in Saint John
Those meters are probably
smarter than anyone at NB power, or in the legislature, but the
recommended action by the PAID advisor was NOT to install them. So that
means that they WILL be installed. After all, ATCON6 still runs the
clown factory.
David Amos
@Samuel Porter Methinks that
thou doth jest just enough to make the liberal and the conservatives sit
up and pay attention to this hearing at the NBEUB N'esy Pas?
Samuel Porter
@David Amos I wouldn't bet on any common sense making a surprise appearance. Liberal=ATCON6, after all.
David Amos
@Samuel Porter I was blessed
with common sense and I am sitting at the hearing right now advising two
friends who are intervening in this matter. Everybody knows that NBEUB
allowed me to do even though they barred me for illegal and very
malicious reasons. N'esy Pas?
Emilen Forest
"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody" - Thomas Paine
David Amos
@Emilen Forest Methinks he was a wise man who believed in common sense even if he was a Yankee rebel N'esy Pas?
Samuel Porter
@David Amos We need to start a few back room clubs around here too.
June Arnott
How about doing away with the huge bonus? No one gets bonus in this era anymore. Or is it just us little people who don’t.
Asking people to pay for storm damage is unethical. Again, get rid of
hundreds of thousands of payouts. This is a company not a piggy bank.
David Amos
@June Arnott How about ridding ourselves of NB Power's corporate welfare to Billionaires who don't pay much taxes?
Kim Mathews
Didn't they just get an ok to raise rates 2% last year or so
David Amos
@Kim Mathews YUP
Evan Day
@Kim Mathews Every chance they get.
Fred Brewer
I cannot understand why a
province with only 750,000 people needs a power company that has over
2,000 employees. What is worse is that almost 800 of those employees are
getting a salary in excess of $100,000. If I were on the EUB I would
not give the utility one nickle of an increase until they trimmed the
fat starting with the $500,000 salary of the CEO.
Bernard Cormier
@Fred Brewer
It is easy to say "if this" or "if that" but you have no valuable
information to how NB-power operates. Just putting out a few numbers
does mean anything.
Bernard Cormier
@Fred Brewer
On that note.. NB-power should charge landowner for their trees that cross over power lines that they have to cut.
David Amos
@Fred Brewer" What is worse is that almost 800 of those employees are getting a salary in excess of $100,000"
Most folks don't know about those facts. However methinks when they do
find out the government in power at the time will lose the new election .
N'esy Pas?
Fred Brewer
@Bernard Cormier "
NB-power should charge landowner for their trees that cross over power lines that they have to cut."
That's pretty twisted logic. When your neighbour's tree limbs reach
into your backyard, you have the right to cut them off. There is no
obligation for your neighbour to do so, or to pay for it. Same applies
to any limbs that grow into an NB Power transmission line corridor.
Samuel Porter
Time to put a surcharge on
the income tax of our elected officials, and the managers of NBpower, to
pay for the damage and cost their stupid decisions, corruption, and
inaction on power line maintenance has caused to NB rate, and tax
payers.
David Amos
@Samuel Porter As the old tune goes "I second the emotion"
Paul Bourgoin
Will industry also be connected to those New Smart Meters or will they keep using their Bargain Meters?
David Amos
@Paul Bourgoin ROTFLMAO
Brian Robertson
So their plan is to charge us to install meters that will allow them to charge us more.
How could we question a plan like that.
If the EUB is to retain any credibility at all as a public advocate, they will send NB Power back to the drawing board.
David Amos
@Brian Robertson Dream on. Why do you think the EUB barred me as an Intervenor in this matter after they delayed the 357 matter?
Sean Onuaillain
I have a trailer that I go to
once or twice a month in winter. I turn the heat on when I am there. My
electric bill in winter months is usually around $80. The last bill was
$150. So yep something is definitely going on.
Douglas James
@Sean Onuaillain Its called cold temperatures.
David Amos
@Douglas James Perhaps
However it depends on how much faith you have in the integrity of NB
Power. Correct? After what I just witnessed a the hearing today and Nb
Power's attack on my friend Roger Richard I certainly never will.
Anne Bérubé
@Douglas James It is also called a way to take out as much as you can off people.
Kim Mathews
When I lived in Connecticut
they already had the " high and low rates during the day to try and
steer electricity consumption away from peak hours" and we had the old
fashioned meters not the smart meters ... have them ask the Light and
Power of Connecticut how they did it ...
David Amos
@Kim Mathews NB Power has at
least four overpaid Yankees on our Crown Corp's Board of Directors so
they should not have to leave the boardroom for that answer N'esy Pas?
Evan Day
Yes, so NB Power can safely
stop trimming trees and looking for ways to avoid weather-related
damage, secure in the knowledge that rate-payers will foot the bill
after the fact. Sounds like a great idea.
David Amos
@Evan Day I know you are
joking about a fairly sorry state of our affairs. Methinks we should
send out all the fat cat executives to trim trees and work off a few
pounds as well. They could consider the exercise as bonus in working for
NB Power N'esy Pas?
Anne Bérubé
Judging by the comments, the
ones who agree with NB Power are either present or retired NB Power
employees, and good liberals. Nothing has to be added to this.
David Amos
@Anne Bérubé That is the last thing I am Perhaps you should Google me
Roland Godin
Either way the real cost, all debt and upkeep, sighed by you et moi is at least 0.20$ per kw...et voilà
David Amos
@Roland Godin You lost me again Mr Godin
Roland Godin
@David Amos
Voting, even with a check mark, is a blank ckeck for the politicians to
deplete your financial account as they wish and your guaranteed
endorsement of whatever they borrow...et voilà.
David Amos
@Roland Godin I also ran for public office five times Do you think I would have done that?
SarahRose Werner
"The meters also allow for
homeowners to install their own generation, like solar panels, or invest
in large battery storage units to load up on low-cost nighttime power
and sell what they don't need back to the utility." But they will do
absolutely *nothing* to help tenants who pay their own hydro bills.
Tenants will simply be stuck paying higher costs with no way to do
anything about it.
David Amos
@SarahRose Werner FYI When my
friend Gerald Bourque asked Ms Clarke of NB Power during the hearing
today if it would allow homeowners to opt out of their smart meter plan,
she claimed that it would. However I didn't believe her.
Willie Smith
It used to be the poor and
the fixed incomes(seniors) that was feeling the ill effects of the tax
increases, food, heating costs, fuel costs, etc... Now the Middle class
is doing a lot of crying lately.. When is these groups going to stop
voting for the Fibs and the Cons.. It very well could be to late
considering we are bankrupt however better now than later I suppose. Ya
get what ya deserve.. Just a matter of time before amalgamation...
David Amos
@David Amos Why on earth would CBC block a link to their own news article?
La Diablo
“CSA C22.2 NO. 115-14 1.5
says “Meter-mounting devices, as covered by this Standard, are not
intended to be used as load-making or load-breaking devices.”, meaning
that electricity must be disconnected or turned off during meter
exchanges. Aside from the obvious concern about the arcing and
consequent pitting which occurs when contacts are made or broken under
load, another concern is that one's meter base could lose its
CSA certification if it’s been used as a load-break device.”
If NB Power interrupted your power during a meter swap, they caused your
CSA approved meter base to lose it's CSA certification. They then broke
the law when they installed their new smart meter and caused the
chances of a smart meter fire by a factor of over 1000%
Thanks for your help Bernard Cormier, you make my job of SAVING LIVES so much easier
David Amos
Methinks if Robert Jones of
CBC is serious about what he just said on the CBC airwaves then he will
pay close attention to the expert my friend Roger Richard is bringing
down from Montreal at his personal expense N'esy Pas?
David Amos
With regard to Smart Meters I
hope the not so wiseguys in the NBEUB and the CBC pay attention the
the Heath and Safety issues that will be raised along with the fact that
NB Power does not have a mandate to buy the questionable meter and use
them because they canceled The 357 Matter last fall.
EUB punts rate hearing as NB Power studies $122M smart meter plan
Let's look at why we need SMART METERS
#1 A smart meter will hurt or even KILL disabled homeowners who have disabled medical implants.
#2 Did you know if your power company “turned off” the power to your
home when they did a smart meter install, your chance of a smart meter
fire increased by a factor of 1000.
#3 Your power company has access to all of you private power
information. Eg When you make tea, when you turn on your alarm etc. This
private information is sold to Google for huge sums of money. Ask your
power company what the second radio transmitter in your smart meter
does. (ZigBee)
#4 A smart meter will cause cancer to return if your family members who
are fighting cancer at home. If they come home from the hospital and
sleep near a smart meter, they will die. Check with the US Cancer
Society website.
#5 Reason is Smart Meter RADIATION turn off breakers in your home. Both
AFCI's and GFI's get turned off by the radiation from the smart meter.
#6 You smart meter is very accurate, BUT, the software (firmware) is
programmable. Your bill has nothing to do with the power you use.
#7 Smart meter radiation is breaking Ionic Bonding.
#8 A huge expenditure for a huge loss. Billions of dollars to purchase
something that does not general generate any power and each smart meter
need 4 watts to operate. One million smart meters use 4,000 KILOWATTS of
energy to operate.
David Amos
@La Diablo You should become a fan of my friend Roger Richard
La Diablo
@David Amos Just trying to
save lives here. Deaths by smart meter radiation are being covered up by
these power companies. Did you know your power company IS NOT
FOLLOWING the FCC's 1 foot DO NOT INSTALL DISTANCE? Phone up your power
company and ask them what the FCC says the DISTANCE TO COMPLIANCE is
for their FHSS AMI7 smart meter.
Deaths by smart meter fires is another item I want to reduce. If your
power company installed your new smart meter and they turned off the
power, then the chances of a smart meter fire are huge. This video
shows how the meter swap should be done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0bq2Hn2vOo
In Canada it is the LAW to do meter swaps this way. Any other way is ARSON.
Bernard Cormier
@La Diablo
FCC is American regulation. People don't die from smart meters.You are distributing false information.
Bernard Cormier
Why is there so many people complaining? We live in Canada and we have winters.
David Amos
@Bernard Cormier Methinks we have corrupt politicians and Crown Corps as well N'esy Pas?
La Diablo
Just to let you know, if you look at the faceplate of the Focus AXR-SD smart meter, the FCC ID : OWS-NIC51
Installation Guidelines
“Exhibit D - Product Ship Sheet.pdf” contains the following text
advising how to install the equipment to maintain compliance with the
FCC RF exposure requirements:
Endpoint Location
To comply with FCC’s RF exposure limits for general
population/uncontrolled exposure, the antenna(e) used for this
transmitter must be installed to provide a separation distance of at
least 60 cm from all persons and must not be collocated or operating in
conjunction with any other antenna or transmitter.
Conclusion
This device complies with the MPE requirements by providing adequate
separation between the device, any radiating structure, and the general
population.
Hala Bou Diab
NES Smart Meters can be
updated with new pricing, quality of service, energy management, and
monitoring and control services even after they’ve been fully deployed. I
advise you to check NES website: https://www.networkedenergy.com/en/products/smart-meters it's really useful.
STOP THE FIRES. This method is the only legal way to do a meter swap in Canada.
“CSA C22.2 NO. 115-14 1.5 says “Meter-mounting devices, as covered by
this Standard, are not intended to be used as load-making or
load-breaking devices.”, meaning that electricity must be disconnected
or turned off during meter exchanges. Aside from the obvious concern
about the arcing and consequent pitting which occurs when contacts are
made or broken under load, another concern is that one's meter base
could lose its CSA certification if it’s been used as a load-break
device.”
La Diablo
CANCER
Could smart meters cause health problems in cancer survivors? https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/radiation-exposure/smart-meters.html
While RF exposure might not cause cancer directly, concern has been
voiced that cells in the body that have been damaged by exposure to some
other substance might somehow be more likely to become cancerous when
exposed to RF waves. In theory, this might be a concern for cancer
patients being treated with ionizing radiation and/or medicines that
might cause cancer themselves.
Bernard Cormier
@La Diablo
Paranoid or what. Your WiFi router has more and will run 24/hr/day.
La Diablo
@Bernard Cormier Do us a favor Bernard Cormier.
#1 Go outside and look at the faceplate of your smart meter, unless you
are too scared of the high levels of smart meter radiation.
#2 Over top of the LCD display, there is a FCC IDENTIFICATION NUMBER.
#3 Write that number down and plug that number in to the FCC's Searchable FCC ID Database
#4 Under the RF Report, give us the link for the CERTIFICATION EXHIBIT for your FHSS AMI7 smart meter. or
#5 Every smart meter comes with this CERTIFICATION EXHIBIT, we are
interested in the (DISTANCE TO COMPLIANCE) OR THE (DO NOT INSTALL
DISTANCE)
Hurry back Bernard Cormier , people are being KILLED by your smart meters.
Care to explain this ITRON document from BC Hydro?
STUDY METHODOLOGY
This study took place in the summer of 2015 and used the Cisco network
management system to pull operational data and statistics from a total
of 12,969 OpenWay smart meters operating in the BC Hydro service
territory. Each meter or node in the network delivers all transmission
statistics to the Cisco system as part of its standard status reporting.
The meter population selected for the study was randomized to ensure a
representative cross section of deployed meters in differing service
environments and operational scenarios within the network. This approach
was taken because duty cycles for individual meters will vary to some
degree depending on where they are situated in the topology of the mesh
network. In addition to sending their own data (typically one to three
times a day), meters will also relay data from other meters in the mesh
network.
So your smart meter operates 24 hours a day and never stops.
OH Bernard Cormier, do you work for NB Power?
You talk like every other power company manager I know who wants to hide the facts their smart meters are KILLING people.
@La Diablo
you just said earlier:
"each smart meter requires 4 watts of power to operate"
La Diablo
@Bernard Cormier
Power to operate is 4 watts.
RF RADIATION OUTPUT IS 35 WATTS.
I asked you to get the FCC number from the front of your smart meter.
ARE YOU TOO SCARED OF THE HIGH LEVELS OF RADIATION?
ARE YOU SCARED OF DYING?
La Diablo
Bernard Cormier is going to
show us how to find the DO NOT INSTALL DISTANCE for his smart meters.
Or as we say in this business (DISTANCE TO COMPLIANCE)
Every radio transmitter in Canada is dangerous up to a certain distance
M.P.E. or MAXIMUM PERMISSIBLE EXPOSURE. After a certain distance,
Industry Canada tells us it is then safe for a healthy human. They do
not test for DISABLED FOLKS with unshielded medical implants. Sorry
Berny, I am not talking about shielded pacemakers.
You might want to ask Berny where this life saving information is on his power companies website.
Bernard Cormier
@La Diablo
I am a retired electronic technical and worked at an Air Traffic Control
Center in communication. I know all about RF and it's effect on humans.
I am also a ham operator and use transmitters all the time. Industry
Canada regulates all transmitter from anything you can think of
including Am/FM radio, cell towers. So don't go there..
La Diablo
@Bernard Cormier Then you
should have no trouble finding the FCC IDENTIFICATION NUMBER on your
faceplate. Form their you can goto the Searchable FCC ID Database. As a
retired electronic technician, this shouldn't be hard at all.
CERTIFCATION EXHIBIT for your smart meter will show us the DO NOT
INSTALL DISTANCE. Or are you to scared of the high levels of
radiation? I am losing count of how many times I have asked you for the
truth.
@Bernard Cormier Want to work on smart meter fires? Try this
“CSA C22.2 NO. 115-14 1.5 says “Meter-mounting devices, as covered by
this Standard, are not intended to be used as load-making or
load-breaking devices.”, meaning that electricity must be disconnected
or turned off during meter exchanges. Aside from the obvious concern about the arcing and consequent pitting
which occurs when contacts are made or broken under load, another
concern is that one's meter base could lose its CSA certification if
it’s been used as a load-break device.”
WOW look at the HUGE RISK you put your customers at. Your old method you
used borders on ARSON. You destroy the CSA certification, they you
illegally slame your smart meter on your customers home. How many homes
have you burnt to the ground?
Keep going Berny, like I said before, you are making my job of saving lives really easy
La Diablo
@Bernard Cormier WOW even CBC wants to hide the fact your smart meter radiation exceeds the M.P.E. How much did you pay them?
NB Power's smart meter plan labelled a 'money loser' during EUB grilling
The utility estimated the total savings would fall short of the $122.7M price tag
By Robert Jones, CBC NewsPosted: Feb 08, 2018 6:00 AM AT
NB Power executives faced tough questions on its smart
meters project Wednesday in Saint John. (Robert Jones/CBC NEWS)
A trio of NB Power executives were under pressure Wednesday to
justify why the utility wants to invest more than $100 million to
install smart meters with customers when its own accounting shows
savings from the change will be less than the cost to implement it.
"Those projected costs are $122.7 million and the projected benefits
are $121.4 million. Is that correct?" asked Christopher Stewart, a
lawyer for J.D. Irving Ltd. during the opening day of NB Power's annual
rate hearing.
"Yes. That's the life cycle costs of the project and the life cycle
benefits of the project," responded NB Power senior vice president of
operations Lori Clark.
"That's negative $1.3 million," observed Stewart. "It's a money loser."
Clark, along with two other NB Power senior vice presidents, Keith
Cronkhite and Darren Murphy, fielded initial questions about the
utility's smart meter plans in front of the Energy and Utilities Board
as part of a 12-day review of a number of issues.
Lori Clark, NB Power's vice president of
operations, fielded questions about the cost and benefits of the smart
meters plan. (Robert Jones/CBC NEWS)
The board has the power to approve or reject NB Power projects that
cost more than $50 million, including the smart meter project.
Greater benefits expected
The three vice presidents argued that smart meters are needed as a
foundation for NB Power to implement a number of other modernization
plans and suggested total financial benefits will likely be greater than
the analysis it prepared for the hearing seemed to show.
The meters will connect directly to the utility's computers and track
consumption in real time. That will open up opportunities to establish
high and low rates during the day to try and steer electricity
consumption to off-peak hours.
The meters also allow for homeowners to install their own generation,
like solar panels, or invest in large battery storage units to load up
on low-cost nighttime power and sell what they don't need back to the
utility.
Smart meters became the focus on the first day of the annual rate hearing. (Ryan Pilon/CBC)
NB Power said the meters, and an aggressive new package of consumer
energy conservation initiatives, will help it soften expensive
wintertime consumption peaks on its system and is the key to lowering
costs and avoiding the construction of new power plants — advantages it
did not fully detail in its proposal.
"We did not take into account all of the potential upside benefits.
We were very conservative in the calculation of our benefits," said
Clark. "There are a number of projects that are enabled by our Advanced
Metering Infrastructure that haven't been identified in the business
case."
Stewart responded: "You say you've taken a conservative approach but its the approach you've chosen to bring forward."
Christopher Stewart, a lawyer for J.D. Irving Ltd., described the smart meter plan as a "money loser." (Robert Jones/CBC NEWS)
Recent complaints
Clark said the multiple recent complaints the utility has received
from people surprised by the size of their January power bills show the
value of smart meter.
But she assured Gerald Bourque, leader of New Brunswick's fledgling KISS N.B. Political Party and a hearing participant, that no one who objects to the device will be made to take one.
"When we are dealing with high bill complaints like we have been this
last month, customers would actually be able to see their usage
throughout the month and not be subject to receiving a final bill at the
end of the month and being surprised by their consumption," she said.
"We will have an opt out policy."
Whether the meters pay for themselves or not, it is important the
board not judge the proposal to buy them on that issue alone, Murphy
said.
"It's more than just economics," he said. "It's about preparing for that future and modernizing the infrastructure."
Opting out smart meter program could cost NB Power customers
Power customers in British Columbia, Quebec have faced fees for refusing the installation of smart meters
By Robert Jones, CBC NewsPosted: Feb 10, 2018 8:00 AM AT
NB Power Senior VP Operations Lori Clark speaks during the
EUB hearings Friday in Saint John. (Robert Jones/CBC NEWS)
NB Power customers who do not want a smart meter installed on
their home could be facing a stiff fee for that decision, but so far the
utility is not saying how much it might be.
"It will be based on the principles of cost causation, but we have
not gotten into the detail of what that fee would be at this point,"
said NB Power Senior Vice President of Operations Lori Clark at Energy
and Utilities Board hearings on Friday.
In other jurisdictions that have already adopted smart meters,
customers not wanting to participate have faced hundreds of dollars in
extra charges.
Thousands of pages of evidence on a number of issues, including smart meters, have been submitted for the 12-day hearing.
In British Columbia, power customers are charged a meter reading fee
of $32.40 per month if they refuse a smart meter, or $20 per month if
they accept a smart meter but insist its radio transmitter be turned
off. That's a cost of between $240 and $388.80 per year for customers to
opt out.
In Quebec, smart meters were installed beginning in 2012. Customers
who refused the devices were initially charged $98 to opt out plus a
meter reading fee of $17 per month. That was eventually cut by Quebec's
energy board in 2014 to a $15 refusal fee and a $5 per month meter
reading surcharge.
NB Power said it may be a year or more before it settles on its own fee.
"The opt out policy will be developed and implemented as part of the
roll out. It will be one of the last things we do," said Clark.
Customers need to be on board
NB Power is in front of the New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board
seeking permission to spend $122.7 million to install 350,000 smart
meters province wide.
Smart meter opponent Roger Richard, right,
leads a group worried about human health problems caused by long term
exposure to the devices. (Robert Jones/CBC NEWS)
The meters are capable of transmitting consumption data of customers
back to NB Power in real time, which the utility said will allow for a
number of innovations in pricing and service.
The meters require near universal adoption by customers to maximize
their financial benefit — like eliminating more than $20 million a year
NB Power currently spends to read meters manually. The utility has said
the switch will not succeed if too many customers opt out.
"We certainly wouldn't be looking at making an investment of this size without having the customer with us," said Clark.
On Thursday, Kent County resident Daniel LeBlanc, who along with
Roger Richard, is opposing the introduction of smart meters for health
reasons, predicted a cool reception for the technology in many parts of
the province.
"If one were to ask most of the people in the rural areas, I'm not
sure you would get a lot of takers for this infrastructure," said
LeBlanc, who is concerned with the long-term effect microwave
frequencies used by the meters to transmit data may have on human
health.
That issue is before the EUB next week.
Haven't tested the waters
NB Power acknowledged it has not measured public opinion on adopting
smart meters but is confident it can convince customers it is a good
idea for them and the utility.
"People don't understand what the smart meter is," said Clark. "We
need to educate our customers first to allow them to make an informed
decision so that will be part of the roll out plan."
Clark noted that smart meters, helped by stiff opting out penalties,
were eventually accepted by 98 per cent of customers in British Columbia
and by 97.4 per cent of customers in Quebec.
"We will check and adjust along the way if there are issues with customer uptake," said Clark.
"This is very similar to what has been done in other jurisdictions and they haven't had those challenges."
The meters NB Power wishes to install are already used by municipal utilities in Saint John, Perth-Andover
Saint
John Energy has 9,816 smart meters in service in the city, covering more
than one-quarter of its customers. (Robert Jones/CBC)
NB
Power may be struggling to convince the Energy and Utilities Board to
let it invest in smart meters but the province's municipal utilities —
who don't answer to the board — have already put thousands of the
devices into service without controversy.
"We have 9,816 units installed currently," said Saint John Energy vice-president Marta Kelly told CBC News Thursday.
"They've been excellent for hard to reach routes."
The
utility began installing smart meters 12 years ago and now more than a
quarter of city residents have one, particularly those living on the
city's outskirts.
Kelly says residents were informed by letter before meters were installed and complaints have been limited.
"In the unlikely event they want it removed they can have it removed but we have had very little of that."
Installed for several years
The Saint
John neighbourhood of Martinon is almost completely serviced by smart
meters and has been for several years. (Robert Jones/CBC)
In
the neighbourhood of Martinon, in the extreme northwest corner of Saint
John, most buildings carry a smart meter and have for several years.
The units transmit power consumption information back to the utility on their own without having to be visited and read.
Kelly
said placements in more remote parts of the city like Martinon helped
the utility shave the most off its meter reading expenses. She said if
NB Power wins approval to install its own meters, Saint John Energy will
complete the entire city.
"We support the rollout of
AMI (Advanced Metering Infrastructure). We think it's a fundamental
basis for (other) initiatives we can all do in the future."
Although
they operate as electrical monopolies in their communities, New
Brunswick's municipal utilities, including Saint John Energy, Edmundston
Energy and the Perth-Andover Electric Light Commission, are not
required to have their rates or spending plans reviewed and approved by a
regulator,
That has freed them up to do what they want when they want.
In Perth-Andover's case it installed smart meters with all but a couple of customers, about 900 in total, in 2010.
Village
administrator Dan Dionne says it's been a good investment and he does
not envy the prodding NB Power's smart meter plan was submitted to in
front of the Energy and Utilities Board.
"We're a small utility. We can hire one guy to come in and do our whole system over in a couple of weeks."
NB Power's smart meters plan not so smart, 2 expert reviews find
$122M-plan is poorly thought out, should be rejected by EUB, separately commissioned reports conclude
By Robert Jones, CBC NewsPosted: Jan 26, 2018 6:00 AM AT
NB Power plans to spend $122.7 million over three years to
deploy smart meters for all its residential and commercial customers.
(Ryan Pilon/CBC)
NB Power's plan to spend $122.7 million over three years to deploy
smart meters for all its residential and commercial customers is poorly
thought out and should be rejected by the Energy and Utilities Board at
hearings next month, according to separate experts hired to review the
strategy.
"As currently proposed, the AMI [advanced metering
infrastructure] project could commit NB Power and its customers to a
heavy cost burden without fully defining and quantifying the future
benefits to be gained," wrote Edmund Finamore, a smart meter consultant
from Pennsylvania commissioned by public intervener Heather Black to
scrutinize the plan.
"It is not clear that NB Power has implemented sufficient
project management controls methods to execute a firm plan, achieve firm
project milestones and control project costs."
A second review of the proposal by a Boston-area energy consultant
hired separately by the Energy and Utilities Board also found
significant flaws.
"NB Power has significantly understated the costs and overstated the
benefits of its AMI proposal," says the analysis by a group of five
authors working for Synapse Energy Economics out of Cambridge, Mass.
"We recommend that the board reject the company's AMI proposal."
'Essential' to cleaner, more reliable grid
NB Power has been working toward upgrading its distribution system to
a "smart grid" over the past six years and the wholesale installation
of smart meters and other AMI to serve every customer has long been a
centrepiece of the utility's plan.
Unlike current units that have to be physically visited to be read,
smart meters will connect directly to NB Power computers, allowing
individual customers to have electricity consumption tracked several
times an hour instead of once a month.
The utility says this will allow it to charge a variety of rates for
electricity — more when consumption is higher, such as in the mornings,
on weekends and during winter — and less when consumption is lower.
That in turn will encourage consumers to shift demand to underutilized parts of the day, it says.
"We are going from reading a customer's meter once a month, so 12
times a year, up to 12 times an hour," former NB Power executive Neil
Larlee said during testimony in front of the EUB last February.
The meters will also allow customers to sell electricity back to NB
Power if they install solar or other power generating capability on
their property and will give the utility instant information on outages,
including the individual homes affected.
"This communication network along with the AMI meters is essential to
a building smarter, cleaner, more reliable and efficient power grid and
will lay the foundation for many of the long-term customer benefits
that NB Power will deliver through its Energy Smart NB plan," said the
utility in its application to the EUB to acquire the units.
Cost outweighs savings
But even NB Power acknowledges the cost of buying, installing and
operating 355,000 new smart meters to blanket the province in a
three-year rollout is high without enough savings to completely pay for
it.
The utility has detailed 15 ways the new meters will cut expenses but
the combined benefits total just $121.4 million That's $1.3 million
less than the program is budgeted to cost.
'Spending so much money on an initiative that is not essential and not cost effective is unwise.'
- Synapse report
Both Finnamore and Synapse Energy disputed the value of several of
the claimed savings as inflated and Synapse further argued since NB
Power's own numbers show the investment in smart meters will cost money
in the long run the case is too weak to proceed.
"The company's own analysis suggests that the proposal is not cost
effective and that analysis suffers from some fundamental flaws,"
concluded the Synapse report.
"Spending so much money on an initiative that is not essential and not cost effective is unwise."
Proposal needs refining
Both consultants suggested if properly handled, the introduction of
smart meters could benefit both NB Power and its customers, but each
separately concluded the utility's plan lacks detail and a convincing
rationale.
Both called for the application to be denied so the utility can offer a more refined proposal.
NB Power is facing a 12-day hearing in front of the Energy and Utilities Board beginning Feb. 8.
In addition to seeking permission to invest in smart meters, it is
also attempting to win approval for an average two per cent rate
increase it has proposed for April 1 and is asking for the flexibility
to employ special rate increases when large unexpected weather or
market events cause its costs to jump unexpectedly.
94 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Amos
Methinks folks should start reading what I said within the transcripts of these matters N'esy Pas?
William Reed
The real scandal here is that
they have not indicated publicly how they could make profit with these
meters going forward. It's not true that these will not be worth the
effort. Many utilities are banking they will be hugely profitable in
ways not disclosed to customers yet.
Many utilities across NA have strategically placed themselves to be the
gatekeepers of information gathering and selling from the homes of their
customers. It's been described as as the holy grail of information
gathering that many companies have their eyes on. Within these meters
is the wireless functionality to collect and relay information from any
smart device in your home. In time this will represent a lot of
information and an important source of revenue in the information age.
You have to inform yourself as a consumer under legal contract (your
terms and conditions). They installed one on my house one day by simply
knocking on the door and asking me if they could shut the power off for
five minutes and do an upgrade. I realized after the fact that they had
installed a smart meter. Knowing about the legal issues that had been
stirred up in California, I fired off a letter to NB power asking how
my terms and conditions had changed and about the future intent to use
any functionality to sample information in my home to their benefit. I
was promised an answer by the legal team and never received one. That
was over two years ago.
It's not surprising that the auditors don't see the profit in the plan.
NB Power have purposely not shed light on the scope of what is possible
with these, IMHO. I don't think they have to because they are not using
this functionality now and can easily state that they are not
considering it yet. This is the thing that reporters should be looking
into.
Dianne MacPherson
@William Reed
How could NB Power install a smart meter
on your home when they haven't been approved
yet by the EUB ???
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Dianne MacPherson Exactly
Its a small wonder that NB Power and the NBEUB barred me as an Intervener after I raised Hell in the 357 Matter
EUB punts rate hearing as NB Power studies $122M smart meter plan
EUB agrees to suspend hearing so it can deal first with NB Power's proposed $122M purchase of smart meters
By Robert Jones, Posted: Sep 26, 2017 6:00 AM AT
FYI Here is some old news from CBC about NB Power that caused Bernie Lord to fire the old board.
NB Power has too much freedom: PUB boss
CBC News Posted: Feb 15, 2006 9:30 AM AT Last
The man in charge of the Public Utilities Board says huge financial
losses at NB Power are a direct result of too much freedom and he wants
the company to open its books to public scrutiny more often.
The utility wants to raise rates by an average of 11.6 per cent for
residential and industrial users on April 1 to make up for projected
losses next year.
FROM FEB. 14, 2006: NB Power guesses tax bill, ignores law
But at hearings into that request on Tuesday, PUB chairman David
Nicholson blamed the company's poor performance on a lack of supervision
and suggested more regulation could have stopped hundreds of millions
of dollars from going out the door.
David Amos
@David Amos Why is that I am not surprised that CBC blocked their own words?
Roland Godin
``Hydro-Québec won the
biggest energy deal in its history Thursday as authorities in
Massachusetts approved its proposed Northern Pass Transmission
project.``
We could buy and plug with Massachusetts, even with a mark up it would
still cost less than adding to the already huge debt and would satisfy
the must not buy from Québec whoevers...et voilà.
David Amos
@Roland Godin FYI I have been
asking why we don't buy our power from Quebec for many years and
everybody just plays dumb. Methinks it was a Major Faux Pas refurbishing
Lepreau particularly in light of the fact that the old PUB said no. But
the not so wiseguy Bernie Lord ignored them and went ahead anyway then
fired them not long afterwards He also lost the election right after
creating NBEUB N'esy Pas?
Check Wikipedia
"In 2002, NB Power, with support from the Government and opposition,
pushed for refurbishment. However, the New Brunswick Energy and
Utilities Board ruled that "there is no significant economic advantage
to the proposed refurbishment" of Point Lepreau and that "it is not in
the public interest".[20]
In April 2004, a report[21] authored by former British Energy chairman
Robin Jeffrey estimated the plant's refurbishment would cost $1.36
billion instead of the C$935 million figure quoted at the time by the
provincial utility. Jeffrey's report made no recommendations on whether
to undertake the plant's overhaul or not but advised New Brunswick
decision makers to seek competitive bids for new fossil-fuel fired
generation capacity.[22]
Despite being denied a federal grant to fund the project,[23] NB Power
announced on July 29, 2005 that it was awarding Atomic Energy of Canada
Limited a $1.4 billion (CAD) contract for refurbishing the generating
station.[24]"
David Amos
@David Amos BTW Need I say it was a small wonder to me that Harper appointed this NB Power lawyer to be a Judge?
"When NB Power was in front of the Public Utilities Board, the precursor
to the Energy and Utilities Board, eight years ago, NB Power's lawyers
and executives were asked whether the utility would be entitled to
compensation if the massive refurbishment project went behind schedule.
"In the real world no one, no one covers those kinds of costs," said
Terrence Morrison, NB Power's lawyer, in transcripts from the board.
"I am suggesting that in order to accept that argument the board pick out some rose-coloured glasses and put them on."
Ben Haroldson/Samuel Porter
What's the odds that advice will be followed? -0 percent. Remember people, Atcon 6 is still in control.
David Amos
@Samuel Porter YUP
Ross Piercey
Ever since these smart meters came out all I've heard is they caues fires.
David Amos
@Ross Piercey You are not alone in hearing that
Paul Krumm
NB save money? Dump the excess managers (about 100 compared to other
utilities) at a cost of about $200,000 each per year (wages, admin,
overhead etc) bingo already $20 million saved with no negative effect
except a spike in the unemployment rate.
David Amos
@Paul Krumm I concur NB Power appears to be a retirement abode for old politicians and their cohorts
Robert Dazleus
Sounds like just the kind of investment we're all used to In This Place.
David Amos
@Robert Dazleus I agree
Robert Dazleus
So they're also seeking to increase rates AND permission to bypass the
EUB and increase rates when they feel it's justified. Get ready to pay
pay pay
David Amos
@Robert Dazleus You have been doing that for years Best get ready to pay more more more
Chantal LeBouthi
As many as 1.7 million Hydro-Quebec customers have made the switch to
smart meters – but the devices have many critics complaining about
skyrocketing bills.
In some cases, customers say their bills have doubled or tripled since smart meters were installed.
Similar smart meter overbilling concerns have been raised in Ontario, where its ombudsman is investigating some 8000 complaints.
Similar smart meter overbilling concerns have been raised in Ontario, where its ombudsman is investigating some 8000 complaints.
Worst of all, the smart meters haven’t worked (sometimes literally:
812,000, or about 1/6 of all smart meters, have never transmitted to the
provincial data center at all): power use hasn’t dropped during peak
periods; it has actually increased slightly. The Auditor General noted
that “projected net benefits of at approximately $600 million over 15
years were significantly overstated by at least $512 million.” Add in
the massive cost overrun, and taxpayers are still out nearly a billion
dollars for a project that by any empirical measure has been a complete
disaster.
—————————————————-
It’s was a big fiasco in Quebec, Ontario, Saskatchewan
Will be here too
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi "Similar smart meter overbilling concerns have been
raised in Ontario, where its ombudsman is investigating some 8000
complaint"
Methinks the lawyer Chucky Murray may be quite busy in the near future N'esy Pas?
Michael G. L. Geraldson
I left rural Ontario because my hydro bill doubled after the
installation of a smart meter. Then, I spent two years arguing with them
about it. Even though my rates are still too high here, they are
nothing like they were when I lived in Ontario.
David Amos
@Michael G. L. Geraldson "I left rural Ontario because my hydro bill doubled after the installation of a smart meter."
You know what political party to thank for that smart meter nonsense correct?
Chantal LeBouthi
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has seen a surge in 'smart
meter hacks' which allow consumers to cut expensive power bills from 50
to 75 percent -- providing they're careful about it.
It doesn't take knowing someone in the industry or power tools --
instead, consumers use a low-cost magnet to disrupt readings. Due to the
digital nature of smart meters, there have also been cases of hackers
being hired to cheat the system for a modest fee.
————————————
Hope nb power know about this because is going to be costly
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi "The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has seen a
surge in 'smart meter hacks' which allow consumers to cut expensive
power bills from 50 to 75 percent -- providing they're careful about
it."
Oh My My Should we consider this good news from the FBI for a change?
Ian Scott
If you work, its pretty hard to change when you have breakfast, and get
kids ready for school etc.Same thing at night. NB Power using excuse to
target peak times with higher rates. And if you cannot verify when to
turn the dryer on(that a low peak time in place) its unlikely you will
save a penny. This NB Power in cahoots with Siemens in power grid
changes? this is the great incentive, save so we can can charge you more
. Consumer tries to be good and help and gets dinged. Typical.
David Amos
@Ian Scott "If you work, its pretty hard to change when you have
breakfast, and get kids ready for school etc.Same thing at night. NB
Power using excuse to target peak times with higher rates."
That is what I have been pointing out for quite some time now
Shawn McShane
Will NB Power follow the advice or will they pull a Victor Boudreau who
went against advice and removed NBers security over Atcon costing
taxpayers $70 million???
David Amos
@Shawn McShane Remember when Bernie Lord decided to refurbish Lepreau
against the advice of the PUB? Well he fired them and created the EUB
just before he lost the election in 2006. Since then the Liberals and
the Conservatives have been using the EUB against us.
Roland Godin
While on smart meters, could we have a report on smart politicians
artificial intelligent capability of pushing the OFF and ON switch for
the consumed preference of their political colours...et voilà.
David Amos
@Roland Godin Methinks thou doth jest too much N'esy Pas?
Paul Bourgoin
As for an experimental beginning to these new smart electrical meters
for efficiency in reading electrical consumption and cost analysis, NB
POWER should install them in all Commercial Customers first, whose
consumption is greater than that of Joe Public. Then Government could
establish if it is a worthy money saving experiment for all New
Brunswick Residents or a costly indebted experiment for New Brunswick
Tax Payers!
David Amos
@Paul Bourgoin "NB POWER should install them in all Commercial Customers
first, whose consumption is greater than that of Joe Public."
NB Power to too busy writing the biggest Commercial Customer of them corporate welfare cheques
Joel MacKenzie
The article says that the new meters will cost $122.7M over three years.
The benefits are estimated at $121.4M. I didn't see a time frame for
that, Is that over the same three year period? I think a return like
that over only three years is pretty good. That's $404M over 10 years.
Am I missing something? What's the problem?
Chris Rouse
@Joel MacKenzie https://newclearfreesolutions.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/new-clear-free-solutions-matter-375-evidence-web.pdf
David Amos
@Chris Rouse Interesting that you offer your two bits here but won't speak to me in person
Chantal LeBouthi
Smart meters have already sparked controversy across Canada they set to
use digital smart meters as a way of doubling the cost of power when
families need it Most
It’s a money grab machine nothing to do with energy saving
It’s total bull,,,,,
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi Everybody knows that but the Liberals and NB Power
Chantal LeBouthi
consultant hired by NB Power is warning of significant consumer
"backlash" if the utility is made to establish seasonal rates for
electricity.
The consultant's report even suggests customers might have to read their
own power meters at midnight twice a year — on April Fool's and
Halloween — to make the system work.
"Virtually all bills will have errors ... billing disputes can be
expected to increase, possibly dramatically, and there will be no means
of resolving disputes in a satisfactory way," reads a report
—————————————
So nb power intent to screw us and we want be able to fight it
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi FYI April Fool's and Halloween are two of my favourite days when dealing with NB Power's lawyers. No joke.
Shawn McShane
NB Power is asking for the flexibility to employ special rate increases
when large unexpected weather or market events cause its costs to jump
unexpectedly.
Its winter the cold, snow, freezing is expected. If it gets sub-zero in
the summer that is unexpected. The markets have a glut of cheap
electricity and NB rate payers never catch a break. The Pembina
Institute's Sara Hastings-Simon says prices are likely to continue to
fall (but not for us).
David Amos
@Shawn McShane "The markets have a glut of cheap electricity and NB rate payers never catch a break."
Methinks you should ask your MLA why that is before the next election N'esy Pas?
Greg Miller
Does anyone out there really believe that homeowners ,etc are not
already using "smart meters" (i.e. their intelligence) to control their
expenditure on ever increasing electrical costs? What we need is a SMART
Government and SMART innovators to find better ways of meeting our
power needs--not gimmicks!
David Amos
@Greg Miller "What we need is a SMART Government and SMART innovators to
find better ways of meeting our power needs--not gimmicks"
We also need smart voters
Brian Robertson
Those most likely to not benefit from this plan would be New Brunswickers.
NB Power seems to be chasing technology without giving any thought to
how it impacts it's customers. Sure, there are a few goodies involved
like quick analysis and diagnosis of outages. But, when the utility
talks of charging different rates based upon network demand, they aren't
talking about discounted power at off-peak times. They are setting the
case for surcharges at times when demand is high.
The net effect to consumers, is the price will be going up.
Does that surprise anyone?
David Amos
@Brian Robertson "The net effect to consumers, is the price will be going up. Does that surprise anyone?"
Not me
Chantal LeBouthi
CBC we know that smart meter are health hazards and fires hazards
Can you check with assurance companies in nb
If a fires is cause by smart meter to a home are they going to sue nb
power for the damage and it Rae’s might go up do to the fire risk
Thanks
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi "If a fires is cause by smart meter to a home are they
going to sue nb power for the damage and it Rate’s might go up do to
the fire risk"
Good point
Tim Nason
We get billed once a month. The meter gets read every 4 or 5 months. The system works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
David Amos
@Tim Nason Exactly. However common sense is a rare thing to find within Crown Corporations
Jon White
NB Power wants to spend 122.7 million when they are already sinking fast
in debt! Looks like NB Power is taking advice from Ontario
Hydro....Just look at the mess Ontario is in with their hydro rates and
debt. Then again this dysfunctional NB Power will just pass the mess
down to rate payers.
David Amos
@Jon White "NB Power wants to spend 122.7 million when they are already sinking fast in debt!"
Thats their plan
Trevor Boone Helm
The whole thing is ridiculous. The more you conserve, the less money the
power company makes. Consumption goes down therefore revenue goes down.
Which means rates go up to cover the drop in revenue. This is what
happened to Ontario in the 80's when we had the boom and they were
building power plants (especially nuclear plants) like there was no
tomorrow. Coupled with a highly successful campaign to conserve
electricity, costs went up, revenue went down. Then the boom went bust
and the rate payers were left holding a monumental debt.
We should have been lighting our homes like we were playing indoor baseball.
David Amos
@Trevor Boone Helm Check the news in Newfoundland lately. Now there is a tale of woe when it comes to power generation and sales
Trevor Boone Helm
"That in turn will encourage consumers to shift demand to underutilized parts of the day, it says."
Right. Like you can wait to cook supper at midnight when the rates are down.
Ask anyone in Ontario about smart meters.They cost twice as much to
implement as proposed, they never changed usage patterns to any degree,
and may heaven help you if you think the thing isn't calibrated
properly. (You have call Measurements Canada who will come and test the
meter and that costs $600, payable if it's OK. But you won't know if
it's OK unless you get it tested. Sort of a "catch 22".)
David Amos
Content disabled.Then unblocked about an hour later
@Trevor Boone Helm "Right. Like you can wait to cook supper at midnight when the rates are down."
I have been doing that for years but not to save money on a power bill.
David Amos
Content disabled.
@David Amos Interesting that CBC blocked that comment N'esy Pas?
David Amos
@David Amos Oh My Blocked twice in a row
SarahRose Werner
I need to turn more lights on when the sun goes down and there's not as
much light coming in through the windows. A "smart meter" is not going
to change that.
David Amos
@SarahRose Werner I have the same problem
David Amos
@Dianne MacPherson May I
advise you to stick with your initial impression no matter what they
attach to their not so smart meter to catch fish?
Shawn McShane
NP Power already got into trouble with their insurance companies for
"not following expert advice" at Pt. Lepreau. Now they are being
"expertly advised" by two separate independent reports to scrap the
smart meter program. In other jurisdictions smart meters have caused
home fires. How will that effect insurance: GTA homeower liable for
damages after smart meter catches fire.
David Amos
@Shawn McShane "NP Power already got into trouble with their insurance
companies for "not following expert advice" at Pt. Lepreau"
SHHH Methinks that lawsuit is still before the court N'esy Pas?
Ross Piercey
I have one of those NB power
dusk to dawn lights it was in the yard when we moved in, they charge me a
flat rate of $20 per month, the power to run it is suppose to be
included, how do they know how much power this light use?, I’ve never
seen any specific amount of power subtracted from my bill for the light,
has anyone else with these lights figured out how the power is
accounted for and deducted from the power bill?
Sean Lebeau
@Ross Piercey Those lights are installed in front of your meter so that you are not chareged for the power they use
Ross Piercey
@Sean Lebeau
Well I guess they didn’t install this one correctly, it runs off the panel from the garage.
Thanks Sean, I will be following up with NB power on that, thanks again.
David Amos
@Ross Piercey Heres hoping many other folks read this thread
Thomas Imber
Smart meters were a failure
in Ontario that cost ratepayers dearly, makes sense that Gallant would
want to try it in NB. He seems to copy everything Wynne does in Ontario.
But what did you expect from a no-experience, junior lawyer?
David Amos
@Thomas Imber "But what did you expect from a no-experience, junior lawyer?"
Not much but his puppet masters expect him to follow orders and put the right spin on their malicious nonsense.
Mac Isaac
My one and only "want" is that power is there when I want it! PERIOD!!
I don't give a fiddler's damn about "peak" hours or all that other
technical gobblygook...just fix the damned system so it's not always
going down...ESPECIALLY in the extremes of weather, i.e. extreme cold or
extreme heat & humidity...just FIX it!!
David Amos
@Mac Isaac "I don't give a fiddler's damn about "peak" hours or all that other technical gobblygook"
Most folks don't until their power bill goes up.
William Reed
@Mac Isaac You forgot to mention you want it for nothing too. You can't get what
you want. No one can. Flawless service would mean bigger costs and
higher prices.
Mac Isaac
@David Amos You and others
seem perfectly willing to conflate two issues: the increasing costs of
power and the ongoing problems that NBPower has with producing power
without the many, many interruptions throughout the year. One has
nothing to do with the other. I accept, regardless of your snide remark,
that power rates WILL go up, BUT that has nothing to do with
maintaining the power distribution. Unlike some people I have never
wanted "something for nothing", BUT I strongly object to paying for
those many interruptions in every season of the year when other
jurisdictions can, and do, produce power, in often as extreme conditions
as we have here. And so as you don't conflate another issue, I want you
to know that I have the utmost regard for the men and women who try as
hard as they do to maintain our power AND get out to fix the many
problems caused by, in my humble opinion, the grossly overpaid executive
suite at NBPower.
David Amos
@Mac Isaac "One has nothing to do with the other. I accept, regardless of your snide remark, that power rates WILL go up,"
Perhaps you should attend the upcoming hearings and advise NB Power's lawyers on how to argue my testimony?
Mario Doucet
Why are companies allowed to build windfarms in NB then sell the power
in the US? This is wrong, where are the carbon tax promoters on this
issue? Why are we being nailed with carbon taxes by Trudeau when this is
being allowed?
David Amos
@Mario Doucet Methinks you can answer those questions yourself N'esy Pas?
William Reed
@Mario Doucet
That's the private sector. What don't you understand?
David Amos
@William Reed Better yet what do you know about NB Power writing big fat cheques to the private sector?
Jeff Peel
Pretty sure smart meters aren't Health friendly. Do some research on health and smart meters.
David Amos
@Jeff Peel My friend Roger
Richard certainly has and filed it into evidence for the upcoming
hearing as an Intervener. More importantly he is bringing in an expert
from Montreal to testify at his personal expense for all our benefit.
Roland Godin
``Hydro-Québec won the
biggest energy deal in its history Thursday as authorities in
Massachusetts approved its proposed Northern Pass Transmission
project.``
We could buy and plug with Massachusetts, even with a mark up it would
still cost less than adding to the already huge debt and would satisfy
the must not buy from Québec whoevers...et voilà.
David Amos
@Roland Godin FYI I have been
asking why we don't buy our power from Quebec for many years and
everybody just plays dumb. Methinks it was a Major Faux Pas refurbishing
Lepreau particularly in light of the fact that the old PUB said no. But
the not so wiseguy Bernie Lord ignored them and went ahead anyway then
fired them not long afterwards He also lost the election right after
creating NBEUB N'esy Pas?
Check Wikipedia
"In 2002, NB Power, with support from the Government and opposition,
pushed for refurbishment. However, the New Brunswick Energy and
Utilities Board ruled that "there is no significant economic advantage
to the proposed refurbishment" of Point Lepreau and that "it is not in
the public interest".[20]
In April 2004, a report[21] authored by former British Energy chairman
Robin Jeffrey estimated the plant's refurbishment would cost $1.36
billion instead of the C$935 million figure quoted at the time by the
provincial utility. Jeffrey's report made no recommendations on whether
to undertake the plant's overhaul or not but advised New Brunswick
decision makers to seek competitive bids for new fossil-fuel fired
generation capacity.[22]
Despite being denied a federal grant to fund the project,[23] NB Power
announced on July 29, 2005 that it was awarding Atomic Energy of Canada
Limited a $1.4 billion (CAD) contract for refurbishing the generating
station.[24]"
David Amos
@David Amos BTW Need I say it was a small wonder to me that Harper appointed this NB Power lawyer to be a Judge?
"When NB Power was in front of the Public Utilities Board, the precursor
to the Energy and Utilities Board, eight years ago, NB Power's lawyers
and executives were asked whether the utility would be entitled to
compensation if the massive refurbishment project went behind schedule.
"In the real world no one, no one covers those kinds of costs," said
Terrence Morrison, NB Power's lawyer, in transcripts from the board.
"I am suggesting that in order to accept that argument the board pick out some rose-coloured glasses and put them on."
Thomas Imber
Smart meters were a failure
in Ontario that cost ratepayers dearly, makes sense that Gallant would
want to try it in NB. He seems to copy everything Wynne does in Ontario.
But what did you expect from a no-experience, junior lawyer?
David Amos
@Thomas Imber "But what did you expect from a no-experience, junior lawyer?"
Not much but his puppet masters expect him to follow orders and put the right spin on their malicious nonsense.
William Reed
The real scandal here is that
they have not indicated publicly how they could make profit with these
meters going forward. It's not true that these will not be worth the
effort. Many utilities are banking they will be hugely profitable in
ways not disclosed to customers yet.
Many utilities across NA have strategically placed themselves to be the
gatekeepers of information gathering and selling from the homes of their
customers. It's been described as as the holy grail of information
gathering that many companies have their eyes on. Within these meters
is the wireless functionality to collect and relay information from any
smart device in your home. In time this will represent a lot of
information and an important source of revenue in the information age.
You have to inform yourself as a consumer under legal contract (your
terms and conditions). They installed one on my house one day by simply
knocking on the door and asking me if they could shut the power off for
five minutes and do an upgrade. I realized after the fact that they had
installed a smart meter. Knowing about the legal issues that had been
stirred up in California, I fired off a letter to NB power asking how
my terms and conditions had changed and about the future intent to use
any functionality to sample information in my home to their benefit. I
was promised an answer by the legal team and never received one. That
was over two years ago.
It's not surprising that the auditors don't see the profit in the plan.
NB Power have purposely not shed light on the scope of what is possible
with these, IMHO. I don't think they have to because they are not using
this functionality now and can easily state that they are not
considering it yet. This is the thing that reporters should be looking
into.
Dianne MacPherson
@William Reed
How could NB Power install a smart meter
on your home when they haven't been approved
yet by the EUB ???
David Amos
@David Amos Why is that I am not surprised that cBC blocked their own words?
Ross Piercey
I have one of those NB power
dusk to dawn lights it was in the yard when we moved in, they charge me a
flat rate of $20 per month, the power to run it is suppose to be
included, how do they know how much power this light use?, I’ve never
seen any specific amount of power subtracted from my bill for the light,
has anyone else with these lights figured out how the power is
accounted for and deducted from the power bill?
Sean Lebeau
@Ross Piercey Those lights are installed in front of your meter so that you are not chareged for the power they use
Ross Piercey
@Sean Lebeau
Well I guess they didn’t install this one correctly, it runs off the panel from the garage.
Thanks Sean, I will be following up with NB power on that, thanks again.
David Amos
@Ross Piercey Heres hoping many other folks read this thread
Mario Doucet
Why are companies allowed to
build windfarms in NB then sell the power in the US? This is wrong,
where are the carbon tax promoters on this issue? Why are we being
nailed with carbon taxes by Trudeau when this is being allowed?
David Amos
@Mario Doucet Methinks you can answer those questions yourself N'esy Pas?
Anne Bérubé
@Mario Doucet Because Mr. Gallant said so. That's why.
William Reed
@Mario Doucet
That's the private sector. What don't you understand?
David Amos
@William Reed Better yet what do you know about NB Power writing big fat cheques to the private sector?
Mac Isaac
My one and only "want" is that power is there when I want it! PERIOD!!
I don't give a fiddler's damn about "peak" hours or all that other
technical gobblygook...just fix the damned system so it's not always
going down...ESPECIALLY in the extremes of weather, i.e. extreme cold or
extreme heat & humidity...just FIX it!!
David Amos
@Mac Isaac "I don't give a fiddler's damn about "peak" hours or all that other technical gobblygook"
Most folks don't until their power bill goes up.
William Reed
@Mac Isaac
You forgot to mention you want it for nothing too. You can't get what
you want. No one can. Flawless service would mean bigger costs and
higher prices.
Mac Isaac
@David Amos You and others
seem perfectly willing to conflate two issues: the increasing costs of
power and the ongoing problems that NBPower has with producing power
without the many, many interruptions throughout the year. One has
nothing to do with the other. I accept, regardless of your snide remark,
that power rates WILL go up, BUT that has nothing to do with
maintaining the power distribution. Unlike some people I have never
wanted "something for nothing", BUT I strongly object to paying for
those many interruptions in every season of the year when other
jurisdictions can, and do, produce power, in often as extreme conditions
as we have here. And so as you don't conflate another issue, I want you
to know that I have the utmost regard for the men and women who try as
hard as they do to maintain our power AND get out to fix the many
problems caused by, in my humble opinion, the grossly overpaid executive
suite at NBPower.
David Amos
@Mac Isaac "One has nothing to do with the other. I accept, regardless of your snide remark, that power rates WILL go up,"
Perhaps you should attend the upcoming hearings and advise NB Power's lawyers on how to argue my testimony?
Shawn McShane
NP Power already got into
trouble with their insurance companies for "not following expert advice"
at Pt. Lepreau. Now they are being "expertly advised" by two separate
independent reports to scrap the smart meter program. In other
jurisdictions smart meters have caused home fires. How will that
effect insurance: GTA homeower liable for damages after smart meter
catches fire.
@Shawn McShane "NP Power
already got into trouble with their insurance companies for "not
following expert advice" at Pt. Lepreau"
SHHH Methinks that lawsuit is still before the court N'esy Pas?
Rosco holt
@Shawn McShane
Why does the province bother with experts if they don't listen to them?
David Amos
Methinks folks should start reading what I said within the transcripts of these matters N'esy Pas?
SarahRose Werner
I need to turn more lights on
when the sun goes down and there's not as much light coming in through
the windows. A "smart meter" is not going to change that.
David Amos
@SarahRose Werner I have the same problem
Dianne MacPherson
@SarahRose Werner
It's not the lightbulb that burns energy...
it's those baseboard heaters that are the 'killers'.
Have you noticed once that thermostat comes
into play ...watch those bills climb !!!
SarahRose Werner
@Dianne MacPherson - That
only applies if you live in a building with electric heat. Our building
has a gas furnace, and heat and hot water are included in the rent. I
pay my own hydro to run my lights, refrigerator, stove, computer, etc.
Dianne MacPherson
@SarahRose Werner
Ok I didn't realize that.
Smart meters aren't for you !!!
When NB Power puts out all the
'jigs and reels' on them...I may consider
their use !!
David Amos
@Dianne MacPherson May I
advise you to stick with your initial impression no matter what they
attach to their not so smart meter to catch fish?
Trevor Boone Helm
"That in turn will encourage consumers to shift demand to underutilized parts of the day, it says."
Right. Like you can wait to cook supper at midnight when the rates are down.
Ask anyone in Ontario about smart meters.They cost twice as much to
implement as proposed, they never changed usage patterns to any degree,
and may heaven help you if you think the thing isn't calibrated
properly. (You have call Measurements Canada who will come and test the
meter and that costs $600, payable if it's...
David Amos
@Trevor Boone Helm "Right. Like you can wait to cook supper at midnight when the rates are down."
I have been doing that for years but not to save money on a power bill.
Anne Bérubé
@Trevor Boone Helm Kathleen Wynne and Gallant have everything in common, well most everything.
David Amos
@David Amos Oh My Blocked twice in a row
SarahRose Werner
@Trevor Boone Helm - "Dear
Boss: The reason I am late for work again today is that I had to stay up
until midnight to cook supper, then do my laundry and vacuuming before I
cooked breakfast at 4 AM. I would like to discuss renegotiating my
work schedule to meet the needs to NB Power, as they are apparently
higher priority than your needs or mine."
Trevor Boone Helm
The whole thing is
ridiculous. The more you conserve, the less money the power company
makes. Consumption goes down therefore revenue goes down. Which means
rates go up to cover the drop in revenue. This is what happened to
Ontario in the 80's when we had the boom and they were building power
plants (especially nuclear plants) like there was no tomorrow. Coupled
with a highly successful campaign to conserve electricity, costs went
up, revenue went down. Then the boom went bust and the rate payers were
left holding a monumental debt.
We should have been lighting our homes like we were playing indoor baseball.
David Amos
@Trevor Boone Helm Check the news in Newfoundland lately. Now there is a tale of woe when it comes to power generation and sales
William Reed
@Trevor Boone Helm
The less you use the less is the growth rate for energy consumption.
Energy consumption growth rate sis what forces utilities to build multi
billion dollar generation infrastructure. More demand is a huge. look at
what bitcoin is doing to energy demand in Canada. That's only going to
cost you more going forward.
There is nothing more desirable that cutting energy use. You get instant savings everywhere from it.
Jon White
NB Power wants to spend 122.7
million when they are already sinking fast in debt! Looks like NB Power
is taking advice from Ontario Hydro....Just look at the mess Ontario is
in with their hydro rates and debt. Then again this dysfunctional NB
Power will just pass the mess down to rate payers.
David Amos
@Jon White "NB Power wants to spend 122.7 million when they are already sinking fast in debt!"
Thats their plan
Tim Nason
We get billed once a month. The meter gets read every 4 or 5 months. The system works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
David Amos
@Tim Nason Exactly. However common sense is a rare thing to find within Crown Corporations
Chantal LeBouthi
CBC we know that smart meter are health hazards and fires hazards
Can you check with assurance companies in nb
If a fires is cause by smart meter to a home are they going to sue nb
power for the damage and it Rae’s might go up do to the fire risk
Thanks
Chantal LeBouthi
@Chantal LeBouthi
Rate might go up
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi "If a fires
is cause by smart meter to a home are they going to sue nb power for
the damage and it Rate’s might go up do to the fire risk"
Good point
Brian Robertson
Those most likely to not benefit from this plan would be New Brunswickers.
NB Power seems to be chasing technology without giving any thought to
how it impacts it's customers. Sure, there are a few goodies involved
like quick analysis and diagnosis of outages. But, when the utility
talks of charging different rates based upon network demand, they aren't
talking about discounted power at off-peak times. They are setting the
case for surcharges at times when demand is high.
The net effect to consumers, is the price will be going up.
Does that surprise anyone?
David Amos
@Brian Robertson "The net effect to consumers, is the price will be going up. Does that surprise anyone?"
Not me
Greg Miller
Does anyone out there really
believe that homeowners ,etc are not already using "smart meters" (i.e.
their intelligence) to control their expenditure on ever increasing
electrical costs? What we need is a SMART Government and SMART
innovators to find better ways of meeting our power needs--not gimmicks!
David Amos
@Greg Miller "What we need is
a SMART Government and SMART innovators to find better ways of meeting
our power needs--not gimmicks"
We also need smart voters
William Reed
@Greg Miller
You don't understand the issue here. They have brought these meters in
to create a windfall of profits later, but they have not disclosed to
anyone how that is going to be achieved in any of their openly stated
plans. They are being deceptive. That doesn't mean they don't have a
plan. The meters come with the added functionality to sample data from
any smart device in your house. Power utilities have targeted being
the gatekeeper of this information. It represents a multi billion
dollar bonanza at some point down the road as this information becomes
commodified across society.
It's been kept hush hush. I have asked about this in a letter to my
utility in terms of what I am agreeing to in my terms and conditions,
have been promised an answer, but none has ever come. in my opinion they
are trying to get everyone switched over without this being known
because it has caused enormous legal issues in places like California.
Shawn McShane
NB Power is asking for the
flexibility to employ special rate increases when large unexpected
weather or market events cause its costs to jump unexpectedly.
Its winter the cold, snow, freezing is expected. If it gets sub-zero in
the summer that is unexpected. The markets have a glut of cheap
electricity and NB rate payers never catch a break. The Pembina
Institute's Sara Hastings-Simon says prices are likely to continue to
fall (but not for us).
@Shawn McShane "The markets have a glut of cheap electricity and NB rate payers never catch a break."
Methinks you should ask your MLA why that is before the next election N'esy Pas?
Chantal LeBouthi
consultant hired by NB Power
is warning of significant consumer "backlash" if the utility is made to
establish seasonal rates for electricity.
The consultant's report even suggests customers might have to read their
own power meters at midnight twice a year — on April Fool's and
Halloween — to make the system work.
"Virtually all bills will have errors ... billing disputes can be
expected to increase, possibly dramatically, and there will be no means
of resolving disputes in a satisfactory way," reads a report
—————————————
So nb power intent to screw us and we want be able to fight it
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi FYI April Fool's and Halloween are two of my favourite days when dealing with NB Power's lawyers. No joke.
Chantal LeBouthi
Smart meters have already
sparked controversy across Canada they set to use digital smart meters
as a way of doubling the cost of power when families need it Most
It’s a money grab machine nothing to do with energy saving
It’s total bull,,,,,
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi Everybody knows that but the Liberals and NB Power
Joel MacKenzie
The article says that the new
meters will cost $122.7M over three years. The benefits are estimated
at $121.4M. I didn't see a time frame for that, Is that over the same
three year period? I think a return like that over only three years is
pretty good. That's $404M over 10 years. Am I missing something?
What's the problem?
Chris Rouse
@Joel MacKenzie The benefis
are over the life of the meters not just the three years. They are also
claiming lost fuel and purchased power as a benefit but do not account
for lost revenue which goes against the principles of Net Present Value
that is supposed to account for both in and out costs.
Shawn McShane
@Joel MacKenzie The consultants stated NB Power has significantly understated the costs and overstated the benefits.
@Chris Rouse Interesting that you offer your two bits here but won't speak to me in person
Paul Bourgoin
As for an experimental
beginning to these new smart electrical meters for efficiency in reading
electrical consumption and cost analysis, NB POWER should install them
in all Commercial Customers first, whose consumption is greater than
that of Joe Public. Then Government could establish if it is a worthy
money saving experiment for all New Brunswick Residents or a costly
indebted experiment for New Brunswick Tax Payers!
David Amos
@Paul Bourgoin "NB POWER
should install them in all Commercial Customers first, whose consumption
is greater than that of Joe Public."
NB Power to too busy writing the biggest Commercial Customer of them corporate welfare cheques
Roland Godin
While on smart meters, could
we have a report on smart politicians artificial intelligent capability
of pushing the OFF and ON switch for the consumed preference of their
political colours...et voilà.
David Amos
@Roland Godin Methinks thou doth jest too much N'esy Pas?
Shawn McShane
Will NB Power follow the
advice or will they pull a Victor Boudreau who went against advice and
removed NBers security over Atcon costing taxpayers $70 million???
David Amos
@Shawn McShane Remember when
Bernie Lord decided to refurbish Lepreau against the advice of the PUB?
Well he fired them and created the EUB just before he lost the election
in 2006. Since then the Liberals and the Conservatives have been using
the EUB against us.
Ian Scott
If you work, its pretty hard
to change when you have breakfast, and get kids ready for school
etc.Same thing at night. NB Power using excuse to target peak times with
higher rates. And if you cannot verify when to turn the dryer on(that a
low peak time in place) its unlikely you will save a penny. This NB
Power in cahoots with Siemens in power grid changes? this is the great
incentive, save so we can can charge you more . Consumer tries to be
good and help and gets dinged. Typical.
Michael G. L. Geraldson
@Ian Scott
In my sister's house in Ontario there are signs everywhere reminding
people when to shower, do the laundry, run the dishwasher, all to save a
few cents. Don't know about you, but that wouldn't work in my house!
Chris Rouse
@Michael G. L. Geraldson Sounds like communism to me.
David Amos
@Ian Scott "If you work, its
pretty hard to change when you have breakfast, and get kids ready for
school etc.Same thing at night. NB Power using excuse to target peak
times with higher rates."
That is what I have been pointing out for quite some time now
Chantal LeBouthi
The Federal Bureau of
Investigation (FBI) has seen a surge in 'smart meter hacks' which allow
consumers to cut expensive power bills from 50 to 75 percent --
providing they're careful about it.
It doesn't take knowing someone in the industry or power tools --
instead, consumers use a low-cost magnet to disrupt readings. Due to the
digital nature of smart meters, there have also been cases of hackers
being hired to cheat the system for a modest fee.
————————————
Hope nb power know about this because is going to be costly
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi "The
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has seen a surge in 'smart meter
hacks' which allow consumers to cut expensive power bills from 50 to 75
percent -- providing they're careful about it."
Oh My My Should we consider this good news from the FBI for a change?
Michael G. L. Geraldson
I left rural Ontario because
my hydro bill doubled after the installation of a smart meter. Then, I
spent two years arguing with them about it. Even though my rates are
still too high here, they are nothing like they were when I lived in
Ontario.
Michael Hunt
@Michael G. L. Geraldson Isn't Ontario Hydro owned by a private company like N. S. is owened by Emera .
Michael G. L. Geraldson
@Michael Hunt
Yep, it's called Hydro One.
Michael Hunt
@Michael G. L. Geraldson And do they say NOT FOR PROFIT like MEDAVIE ?
David Amos
@Michael G. L. Geraldson "I left rural Ontario because my hydro bill doubled after the installation of a smart meter."
You know what political party to thank for that smart meter nonsense correct?
Chantal LeBouthi
As many as 1.7 million
Hydro-Quebec customers have made the switch to smart meters – but the
devices have many critics complaining about skyrocketing bills.
In some cases, customers say their bills have doubled or tripled since smart meters were installed.
Similar smart meter overbilling concerns have been raised in Ontario,
where its ombudsman is investigating some 8000 complaints.
Worst of all, the smart meters haven’t worked (sometimes literally:
812,000, or about 1/6 of all smart meters, have never transmitted to the
provincial data center at all): power use hasn’t dropped during peak
periods; it has actually increased slightly. The Auditor General noted
that “projected net benefits of at approximately $600 million over 15
years were significantly overstated by at least $512 million.” Add in
the massive cost overrun, and taxpayers are still out nearly a billion
dollars for a project that by any empirical measure has been a complete
disaster.
—————————————————-
It’s was a big fiasco in Quebec, Ontario, Saskatchewan
Will be here too
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi "Similar
smart meter overbilling concerns have been raised in Ontario, where its
ombudsman is investigating some 8000 complaint"
Methinks the lawyer Chucky Murray may be quite busy in the near future N'esy Pas?
Robert Dazleus
So they're also seeking to
increase rates AND permission to bypass the EUB and increase rates when
they feel it's justified. Get ready to pay pay pay
David Amos
@Robert Dazleus You have been doing that for years Best get ready to pay more more more
Robert Dazleus
Sounds like just the kind of investment we're all used to In This Place.
David Amos
@Robert Dazleus I agree
Paul Krumm
NB save money? Dump the
excess managers (about 100 compared to other utilities) at a cost of
about $200,000 each per year (wages, admin, overhead etc) bingo already
$20 million saved with no negative effect except a spike in the
unemployment rate.
David Amos
@Paul Krumm I concur NB Power appears to be a retirement abode for old politicians and their cohorts
Ross Piercey
Ever since these smart meters came out all I've heard is they caues fires.
David Amos
@Ross Piercey You are not alone in hearing that
Samuel Porter
What's the odds that advice will be followed? -0 percent. Remember people, Atcon 6 is still in control.
Hydro One has taken a new approach to pesky smart meters that
refuse to send a reliable signal about electricity consumption in rural
Ontario.
Give up on them.
The utility, which was ordered by
its provincial masters to install the devices, admits it has decided to
manually read roughly 36,000 meters instead of counting on the wireless
technology.
“Astonishing,” was the reaction from Lanark-area MPP
Randy Hillier, who has been deluged with complaints about Hydro One
billing and smart-meter suspicions.
“I’ve been banging my head
against the wall for the last five years, saying we’ve got problems with
smart meters in rural Ontario.” Since first being elected in 2007, no
single issue has attracted as much attention in his riding, he said.
One
of the main complaints, Hillier explained, is that the terrain in rural
Ontario is such that the wireless meters — which send out a continuous
signal to permit time-of-use billing — frequently fail. Turns out it’s
absolutely true.
“The evidence has been in front of us for a long
time. It doesn’t work, it hasn’t worked and now (there’s) an admission
that it will never work.”
Wayne Cuddington / Ottawa CitizenHis conclusion is based on a letter from Hydro One being
sent to a number of residents outside Perth in eastern Ontario,
including a handful on Barries Sideroad, about five kilometres north of
town.
One was dated Dec. 25, which caused Hillier to wonder
whether the utility was now employing elves or festive-resistant
computers. But that’s another story.
Here’s a portion: “Over the
last few years, we’ve learned that it isn’t possible to economically
connect all meters to the smart meter network. Nor is it possible to
make all meters communicate reliably enough to issue regular time-of-use
(TOU) bills based on actual meter readings.”
So the customer was
told Hydro One was moving her to the so-called “two-tier” system, which
charges a lower rate for the first block of kilowatt hours, then a
higher amount above this threshold. The meter will be read quarterly and
bills in between will be based on estimates.
Hillier is pleased
with the change. Malfunctioning meters were among several issues that
caused a customer relations nightmare for Hydro One in 2013 and 2014.
So
much for trying to get people to use off-peak mostly! They basically
admit that they cannot make the smart meters work outside of populated
areas
When Hydro moved to a new billing system, it was
buried with complaints, numbering in the tens of thousands. Some
customers were double and tripled bills; some had no bills for months;
others were comically billed millions in overcharges.
When
Ontario’s ombudsman stepped in, the office of André Marin was flooded
with more than 10,000 complaints. Hydro admitted its errors, even
sending about a million letters of apology to its customers.
The
introduction of smart meters to Ontario, mandated by the Liberal
government at a cost of about $2 billion, created peak and off-peak
rates that were to spark a conservation drive across the province. The
results have been disappointing.
“So
much for trying to get people to use off-peak mostly!” wrote Barries
Sideroad resident Gregory Jaques, who also received a Hydro letter about
manually readings. “They basically admit that they cannot make the
smart meters work outside of populated areas.”
To make things more
curious, Jaques reports that Hydro only weeks ago installed a repeater
on an area pole to boost the signal from the meters. It was working
fine, he said, when Hydro announced it was abandoning the plan.
“It’s a waste of money, from someone’s point of view.”
Hydro
One, meanwhile, says it knew it had a problem on its hands in rural
areas and successfully applied to the Ontario Energy Board to switch
from TOU meters to manual readings. The board approved the change in
March 2015.
Some rural customers were baffled by the technological
problems. It was especially laughable when Hydro responded that leafy
trees could interrupt the signal, as though the presence of trees in the
countryside came as a surprise. At the height of the crisis, Hydro said
about six per cent of its one million customers were having “billing
issues.”
Hillier only shakes his head at the countless hours
customers have spent with Hydro’s call centre, the frustration of trying
to be heard and the repeated errors that, in some cases, have
threatened financial ruin on small businesses. And, now, to pull the
plug on the meters altogether?
“Anytime a government agency doesn’t cause stress or anxiety is an improvement.”
The Saint
John neighbourhood of Martinon is almost completely serviced by smart
meters and has been for several years. (Robert Jones/CBC)
In
the neighbourhood of Martinon, in the extreme northwest corner of Saint
John, most buildings carry a smart meter and have for several years.
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