A Canadian official says bilateral NAFTA talks are happening already

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-june-4-2018-1.4690285/should-canada-ditch-mexico-and-go-it-alone-with-u-s-on-new-trade-agreement-1.4690431 

Should Canada ditch Mexico and go it alone with U.S. on new trade agreement?

160 Comments

Michael Murphy

I say we say good bye to the US till they put an adult back at the helm.

Mike Smith

@Michael Murphy same for Canada!!!
 

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David Amos

@Mike Smith Methinks many would agree with you if CBC did not block their comments N'esy Pas?

Mike Smith

@Michael Murphy same for Canada!!!
 

Content disabled.
David Amos

@Mike Smith Methinks many would agree with you if CBC did not block their comments N'esy Pas?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-nafta-canada-mexico-1.4692046

Trump wants separate, 1-on-1 NAFTA talks with Canada, Mexico, adviser says

A Canadian official says bilateral NAFTA talks are happening already

Kathleen Harris · CBC News · Posted: Jun 05, 2018 11:29 AM ET

2280 Comments 
Commenting is now closed for this story.

David Amos

Methinks if anyone wants to chuck a wrench in the works of Trump's plan with NAFTA they may enjoy Googling the following words N'esy Pas?

Trump NAFTA FATCA Cohen David Amos

 
Jack Hill

Conservatives love a level playing field, so long as it it tipped in their favour.

Trump is no different.

Aaron Morris

@Jack Hill

Me too. There's a reason cops carry guns too.

Why would you engage in a fair fight when you don't have to?

David Amos

@Aaron Morris Oh My Methinks your question does not warrant and answer N'esy Pas?

David Amos

@Ken Likness "I suggest that Canada and Mexico meet 1 on 1 and then inform Trump how things will be."

Methinks they should finally take my advice and finally chuck NAFTA out the window The Yankee have been screwing us for 25 years on the price of oil alone and put tariffs on our wood etc anything they wish Some Free Trade deal N'esy Pas?

 
Kevin Delaney

Trump is but a painful moment in time. Fair exchange re NAFTA is something all want. Trump seeks dominance, fairness has nothing to do with it. Better days are ahead. Trump too will pass.

David Amos 

@Kevin Delaney "Better days are ahead. Trump too will pass."

Nope

Methinks they keep coming back For instance Burney has always been a greedy Yankee's best buddy and he is back with his two bit worth N'esy Pas?

"The president has in the past floated the idea of bilateral deals if NAFTA talks fail. Former ambassador to the U.S. Derek Burney said bilateral talks are both feasible and desirable. "I think that we should agree to explore, if for no other reason than to inject a constructive note into our trade dialogue with the U.S.," he said."

Jim Palmer

@Kevin Delaney

"Trump wants separate, 1-on-1 NAFTA talks with Canada, Mexico, adviser says"

The old 'divide and conquer' Donnie Boy ? Is that all you've got ?

Sad.

David Amos

@Jim Palmer "Sad."

Methinks the really sick part is that old man Burney thinks its a good idea N'esy Pas?

 
Al Park

To a president who "doesn't like to read", I have no doubt that he's got no clue what's involved in ANY deal. The man is a washed up reality tv star....that's it.

Steven Arsenault

@Fletch Peterson

Trump has never been a Multi-Billionaire.

In fact he has lied repeatedly about his wealth. However number crunchers have noted he would have been richer if he just invested his inheritance instead of losing millions in bad deals.

Also the Apprentice saved him along with South Korean developers who wanted his name on their buildings..... Prior to that he was near broke...despite stiffing people wherever he could.

No one does fake news better than Trump....irony at its finest.

David Amos

@Steven Arsenault "No one does fake news better than Trump....irony at its finest."

Methinks Obama and his cohorts were every bit as talented with the "Fake News" game everybody knows that not just Trump N'esy Pas?

mo bennett

@David Amos it's a well known fact politicians are all the same slime, messy paws?

Charles Beale

Trumpire is all about divide and conquer, Canada is not.

Jack Hill

@Charles Beale

No, Trudeau has done a pretty fine job of dividing Canada and pitting Canadian against Canadian.

David Amos

@Jack Hill YUP

Erik Duchene

@Charles Beale

Trudeau has divided Canada

David Amos

@Erik Duchene YUP

Stanley Baird

@Charles Beale We can do a deal with Mexico, too. Maybe doing a trilateral deal in not the best option for Canada, particularly if the USA is using this as a negotiating point.

 

David Amos

@Stanley Baird Methinks that you may enjoy Googling the following N'esy Pas?

Trump NAFTA FATCA Cohen David Amos

John Paul Jones

The USA now stands alone in the world. Canada should not be so eager to stand next to them.

David Amos

@John Paul Jones "Canada should not be so eager to stand next to them."

I agree

David Amos

@Stanley Baird Methinks we would be farther ahead if went back to the way it was before NAFTA Now we have the perfect chance to get out N'esy Pas?

Stanley Baird

@David Amos before NAFTA was the FTA (US and Canada only)

 
Jon Holmes

Every single one of Drumpf's Economic Advisors looks like they've just recently suffered a Stroke or has one foot in the grave. These clowns long for a return to the 60's.

David Amos

@Jon Holmes "These clowns long for a return to the 60's."

Methinks folks should learn to love the circus they are paying for it anyway N'esy Pas?

Stanley Baird

@Jon Holmes the 1960's were not bad - you could buy a house, support a family on one income, smoke anywhere you wanted, and find a steady job.

David Amos

@Stanley Baird Methinks those were the best days of our lives N'esy Pas?

 
Karen King

Trump does not know what he wants, he wants to look good at everyone else's expense. Wonder if he knows how many really disagree with everything about him!!

David Amos

@Karen King Methinks he does not care to know the awful truth about himself N'esy Pas?

 
Dale Sullivan

Trump makes me sick.

David Amos

@Dale Sullivan Methinks you are not alone N'esy Pas?

 

Cole Trickle

When are we getting free trade between provinces?

David Amos

@Cole Trickle Methinks thou doth jest too much N'esy Pas?

 

Al Millar

It's sad that people still call him the president . I had much more respect for that office before the Trumps and his crew of misfits came to power . The WH will need a heck of a cleaning to remove the stink of Trump Republicans from it .

Reginald McAlister

@Al Millar
People get the government they deserve. We're hardly much better with the incompetent Mr. Dressup and his gang of scandalous misfits at the helm...

David Amos

@Reginald McAlister YUP

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-june-4-2018-1.4690285/should-canada-ditch-mexico-and-go-it-alone-with-u-s-on-new-trade-agreement-1.4690431

Should Canada ditch Mexico and go it alone with U.S. on new trade agreement?

NAFTA was designed to help Mexico, but now it's hurting Canada, argues journalist

CBC Radio · June 4

160 Comments

  

Ken Likness

No. Canada should ditch the Americans and increase trade with Mexico

John Chow

@Ken Likness

Unfortunately that option is neither economically, nor politically, feasible.

David Amos

@John Chow Methinks that is your opinion Other folks such as I agree with Mr Likeness N'esy Pas?

  

Michael Murphy

I say we say good bye to the US till they put an adult back at the helm.

Mike Smith

@Michael Murphy same for Canada!!!
 

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David Amos

@Mike Smith Methinks many would agree with you if CBC did not block their comments N'esy Pas?

  

Doug Haywick

Why would you side with a partner that you can't trust to treat you as a equal or to negotiate with you fairly? One that changes directions on a whim? Forget North America. I'd prefer Canada to be part of a Commonwealth trade block. Half of Australia visits BC to ski in our winter and given the opportunity, an equal number of Canadians would likely want to surf off of Bondi or visit Rotarua in New Zealand. Tourism is a great financial engine. India is a future economic powerhouse that needs the stuff that Canada and Australia export and has technological expertise that we need. The UK has great television and reasonable culture (not to mention scones and fish and chips). Everything you need for equitable economic commerce.

David Amos

@Doug Haywick Methinks Trump's wall can work both ways. Perhpas it will serve to keep many a greedy Yankee home N'esy Pas?

  

Emma Foster

As the old saying goes, divided we fall, united we stand. Perhaps Ms. Francis's interests lie else where, than with the average worker in Canada and Mexico. why give dump what he wants. if he were to "win" on this point, what will be next. A united position may hurt on some level, but it isnt' all about the money. some times you really have to think about the principle.

David Amos

@Emma Foster Methinks we should let Trump win and forget NAFTA forever N'esy Pas?

  

Jim Janz

Trump the comic real estate baron and entertainer is only interested in being a showman and has no capacity to understand international trade.

David Amos

@Jim Janz Methinks he knows that everybody loves a circus N'esy Pas?

  

Simon Schofield

Diane Francis is continuously on the wrong side of every issue. And here it is no different. This isn't about Mexico, Canada, US, or Europe. This is about Trump winning. Nothing else. Trump promised to cancel NAFTA if he didn't win everything in a new deal. Anything short of Canada and Mexico handing over the keys to their economy will not satisfy himm

Trump has said many times that there are losers and him in any deal. This is about making Trump richer, politically, financially, and personnally. Diane Francis knows this. Why she is looking to make this somehow not about Trump begs the question, "What is in it for her"?

David Amos

@Simon Schofield "Trump promised to cancel NAFTA if he didn't win everything in a new deal."

Methinks we should ignore his promise and just walk away N'esy Pas?

  

Stephen Horwood

Sure, let's pander to the unpredictable POTUS. We will start negotiating a bilateral agreement right after all the others we have on the go .... Europe/TPP/China. Get in line Trump.

David Amos

@Stephen Horwood I agree

  

Winnie Hwo

I listened to Diane Francis' take on why we should ditch Mexico and was incredulous by her selfish and colonial take on how things have unravelled in Mexico since NAFTA was struck. She said nothing has changed in Mexico. Sure, if it hasn't, it is likely because US and Canadian big corporations making sure it doesn't. Where else can they find cheap labour if they don't make sure Mexico remains the way they were pre-NAFTA!!

David Amos

@Winnie Hwo YUP

 

Wayne McQueen

Definitely NO, and that is because Trump's style is divide & conquor. If Canada tries negotiating without all three partners in NAFTA, we will be destroyed, because Trump doesn't believe in win-win, he only believes in win-lose, which is one of many things he doesn't understand about free trade deals.

David Amos

@Wayne McQueen Methinks that by the way he changes his mind on a daily basis that Trump doesn't understand a thing N'esy Pas?

  

Ellery Horsman

Canada should either stick to NAFTA or else forget entirely about the USA. No one can trust President Trump and his administration. He has broken treaties left and right, so many that the world doesn't trust him anymore.

David Amos

@Ellery Horsman "Canada should either stick to NAFTA or else forget entirely about the USA"

Methinks a wise man would forget it ASAP N'esy Pas?

Rod Hebner

@David Amos ....Me thinks you're right, ignore Trump, smile a lot, make up any excuse to ignore whatever he wants, sign nothing and promise less. Wheneverr Trump has a brain storm or gets rattled about something he'll just tear up any agreement and do whatever comes next. No credibility, no respect and whatever intentions he has would probably not last long enough for the ink to dry.

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-june-1-2018-1.4687089/tariffs-are-a-nafta-bargaining-chip-argues-canadian-steel-magnate-1.4687103

Tariffs are a NAFTA bargaining chip, argues Canadian steel magnate

Canada should accept 'sunset clause' to break NAFTA deadlock, says Barry Zekelman

CBC Radio · June 1

9 Comments

  

Jonathan Ratzlaff

So Barry Zekelman says this is a bargaining ploy and we should accept the US demands and move on. This is typical short-sighted thinking to appease a bully. What is the next demand? We move our steel making facilities to the US? We send them our iron ore to process? We shut down our auto manufacturing and move it to the US. We send them our water and electricity?

David Amos

@Jonathan Ratzlaff Methinks Barry Zekelman is all about Barry Zekelman N'esy Pas?

  

Myles Grant

Every time the NAFTA negotiators get close to a deal, Trump throws another dead cat on the table and expects them to deal with it. Trump is a bully and a cheat so it is time to draw a line in the sand. Then sit back and watch the US job losses pile up and US consumer prices skyrocket.l love the way the Trudeau Liberals hit Republicans McConnell and Ryan hardest with tariffs on bourbon and Harleys. Kick the Trump- enabling Republicans where it hurts.

David Amos

@Myles Grant Methinks that whereas I was always against NAFTA and declared that that evil deal should be chucked out the window every time I ran for public office everybody should know where I stand today N'esy Pas?

  

Chris Halford

No, Mr Zekelman, Canada should NOT accept a sunset clause just to help you out. These unilateral tariffs have no place in good faith negotiations of a trade agreement and should be reacted to in kind, not as pressure to cave in!

David Amos

@Chris Halford YUP

Trump wants separate, 1-on-1 NAFTA talks with Canada, Mexico, adviser says

A Canadian official says bilateral NAFTA talks are happening already

Kathleen Harris · CBC News · Posted: Jun 05, 2018 11:29 AM ET

U.S. President Donald Trump wants to try a 'different approach' to NAFTA negotiations after trilateral talks with Canada and Mexico stalled. (Jonathan Ernst/Reuters)



Donald Trump's economic adviser said today the U.S. has asked Canada to hold one-on-one North American Free Trade Agreement negotiations as trilateral talks sputter.

Larry Kudlow, director of the U.S. president's National Economic Council, said Trump is now "very seriously contemplating a shift in NAFTA negotiations."

"His preference now, and he asked me to convey this, is to actually negotiate with Mexico and Canada separately," he told Fox News Tuesday.

Kudlow said he spoke yesterday with one of Canada's "top people, right next to the prime minister" about the president's "new thinking," and is now awaiting a response from Canada that could come as early as today. He did not name the official.

"I'm waiting to hear what their reaction is going to be, frankly," he said.

A senior Canadian official said the government is aware of Kudlow's comments and similar remarks made by the president in past.

Canada's position, the official said, is that the negotiations are for a trilateral agreement. Discussions between individual NAFTA partners already happen regularly — so in that sense one-on-one talks are already happening, the official added.

Andrew Leslie, the parliamentary secretary to the foreign affairs minister in charge of Canada-U.S. relations, said there has been speculation about separate negotiations for 18 months, but Canada remains focused on a trilateral agreement.

"As Canada has maintained right from the beginning, we believe in a trilateral NAFTA, we believe that together it's been a win-win-win for our three economies and all three nations have prospered," he said.

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Kudlow said that a bilateral approach would be a way to address significant differences between the countries.

"Canada is a different country than Mexico, they have different problems and you know, (Trump has) believed that bilateral has always been better," Kudlow said.

"He hates large treaties. I know this is just three countries, but still, you know, oftentimes when you have to compromise with a whole bunch of countries you get the worst of the deals."

Kudlow said Trump is not going to withdraw from NAFTA, but wants to try a different approach. The president has in the past floated the idea of bilateral deals if NAFTA talks fail.

Former ambassador to the U.S. Derek Burney said bilateral talks are both feasible and desirable.
"I think that we should agree to explore, if for no other reason than to inject a constructive note into our trade dialogue with the U.S.," he said.

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• Should Canada ditch Mexico and go it alone with U.S. on new trade agreement?

Depending on the outcome, any deal coming out of a series of bilateral talks could supplant or incorporate NAFTA, said Burney, who was chief of staff to former prime minister Brian Mulroney during the final negotiations of the Canada-U.S. free trade deal.

Mounting tensions

Kudlow's remarks came as tensions mount over the U.S. decision to end an exemption on steel and aluminum tariffs that initially had been granted for Canada, Mexico and the EU.

Canada countered by announcing it would slap an estimated $16.6 billion in duties on some steel and aluminum products and other goods from the U.S., including maple syrup, beer kegs, whisky and toilet paper.

White House chief economic adviser Larry Kudlow says Trump wants separate talks with Canada and Mexico. (Evan Vucci/Associated Press)

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland announced the plan last week, just hours after U.S. Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross confirmed the U.S. would impose tariffs of 25 per cent on imported steel and 10 per cent on imported aluminum, citing national security interests.

At a news conference announcing the new duties, set to kick in July 1, Trudeau said he abandoned a proposed meeting with Trump in Washington last week after the White House insisted that he first agree to a five-year "sunset clause" in a renegotiated NAFTA.

In a daily briefing today, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Trump's desire to hold one-on-one talks is not a sign that NAFTA is dead.

"It's not done, but the president is open to having individual deals," she said. "He's looking at the best way to make sure he gets the best deal possible for American workers and whether or not that's through NAFTA or other means, those options are on the table."

Should Canada ditch Mexico and go it alone with U.S. on new trade agreement?

NAFTA was designed to help Mexico, but now it's hurting Canada, argues journalist

CBC Radio · June 4

As NAFTA talks become ever more fractious, some commentators are asking whether it's time to disband the three-way agreement and form bilateral pacts between the countries. (Judi Bottoni/Associated Press)


Canada should recognize Mexico as a "toxic" trading partner, and pull out of NAFTA in favour of a bilateral trade agreement with the U.S., says Diane Francis, editor at large with the National Post.
"Canada should look after Canada," Francis told The Current's Anna Maria Tremonti. "We have nothing to be sorry about."

The U.S. announced Thursday that Canada, Mexico and the E.U. would be subject to tariffs of 25 per cent on imported steel and 10 per cent on aluminum. Ottawa responded with a promise of dollar-for-dollar tariffs on a variety of goods.

Industry insiders said the U.S. tariffs are intended as leverage over NAFTA negotiations, which stalled last month. In a tweet earlier today, U.S. President Donald Trump condemned Canadian "trade barriers."



Francis told Tremonti that signing the trade deal with Mexico in 1994 "was a bootstrapping exercise to help the neighbour to the south get better living standards, higher wages and get their act together."

But more than two decades later, Francis said that Mexico is worse off now than it was back then.

Those low wages are bad for Mexican workers, Francis said, but low costs also draw investors south, hurting Canada's industrial base.

Former U.S. president Bill Clinton signs the North American Free Trade Agreement Dec. 8, 1993. (Paul J. Richards/AFP/Getty Images)

By contrast, Francis points to the strong, "harmonious" trading relationship between Canada and the U.S.

"Bilaterally, we have so few irritants between each other," she said.

She argued that adding Mexico to the mix and trying to "cling to a trilateral agreement" isn't in Canada's best interest.

Mexico is a 'hidden success story'

Turning away from Mexico would be a strategic blunder, according to Colin Robertson, a former Canadian diplomat who helped to negotiate the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement in the late '80s, and then later NAFTA.

"[It] would put us at a disadvantage with both the United States and any effort we wanted to have to expand trading ties, especially within the Americas," he told Tremonti.

"I think there'd be a certain temptation on the part of Latinos: If we were to throw Mexico under the bus, then they would think, 'How reliable is this further gringo to the north?'"

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto in Mexico city on Oct. 12, 2017. Former diplomat Colin Robertson said that the countries had formed a strong alliance through NAFTA. (Alfredo Estrella/AFP/Getty Images)

Mexico has been a "hidden success story" of NAFTA, he said, with improvements in the democratic process and a growing middle class.

"When we went into the North American Free Trade Agreement it was about number 13 or 14 in the list of our trading partners," said Robertson, who is now vice-president and fellow at the Canadian Global Affairs Institute.

"It's now our third largest trading partner, we've got big investments in mining and banking and manufacturing."

Robertson pointed to the country-of-origin labelling dispute over meat products in the late 2000s as an example of Canada and Mexico working together to win a dispute with the U.S.

"[Donald Trump's book] The Art of the Deal is all about divide and conquer," Robertson said, "and it would make no sense for us to separate from Mexico when together we have a much better chance of getting a good agreement."

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau with U.S. President Donald Trump in Washington, where they discussed NAFTA on Oct. 11, 2017. (Jonathan Ernst/Reuters)

The elephant and the mouse

Seeing Mexico as an ally against the U.S. is a mistake, Francis argued, because Mexico and Canada represent only 7 per cent of the three countries' combined GDP.

Comparing the U.S. and Canadian economies is like comparing an elephant and a mouse, she added — referencing Pierre Trudeau's famous analogy from 1969.

"Now we're aligned with another mouse, who's toxic, and is actually kind of toxic to us."

• THE CURRENT | Tariffs are a NAFTA bargaining chip, argues Canadian steel magnate
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Ending the deal and pursuing separate agreements is the solution, she believes.

"I really think that we need to reorient ourselves, and get in the same space to a certain extent, as the Americans are, vis-a-vis Mexico," she said.

Listen to the full conversation near the top of this page.

Tariffs are a NAFTA bargaining chip, argues Canadian steel magnate

Canada should accept 'sunset clause' to break NAFTA deadlock, says Barry Zekelman

CBC Radio · June 1

Canada has responded to U.S.-imposed tariffs of 25 per cent on imported steel and 10 per cent on aluminum. (Darryl Dyck/Canadian Press)



The CEO of a North American steel tube and pipe empire says Ottawa should accept the controversial "sunset clause" condition the White House demanded as part of its NAFTA negotiations.

Barry Zekelman, CEO of Zekelman Industries, said that the steel and aluminum tariffs announced Thursday are intended as leverage over the negotiations, which stalled after high-level talks broke off last month.

 Prime Minister Justin Trudeau cancelled a visit to Washington over the proposal to include a sunset clause, which he called "completely unacceptable." The condition would mean that the deal would need to be renewed every five years by a mutual agreement.

This isn't about Canadian steel ... this is solely about the  NAFTA  negotiations.- Barry  Zekelman

"It doesn't mean that after five years this agreement becomes null and void, it means that after five years we sit down and see if it needs a tweak," Zekelman told The Current's guest host Piya Chattopadhyay.

U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross announced Thursday that Canada, Mexico and the E.U. would be subject to tariffs of 25 per cent on imported steel and 10 per cent on aluminum. Canada responded with dollar-for-dollar tariffs on a variety of goods.

The National

Canada and U.S. slap each other with tariffs

00:00 06:00

Washington says it will hit Canada with tariffs on steel and aluminum. In response, Ottawa is retaliating with a long list of surtaxes on U.S. imports. 6:00

"This isn't about Canadian steel ... Canada does not dump steel into the U.S., or aluminum."
Zekelman said.

"This is solely about the NAFTA negotiations."

A sunset clause would create a lot of instability, according to CBC senior reporter Katie Simpson.
"If every five years all three countries have to re-agree to be in there ... it's going to discourage investors from putting money in both Mexico and Canada," she said.

• CBC POLITICS | After playing nice with Trump, Trudeau declares war on U.S. gherkin
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Investors will build factories or facilities where they can access the largest markets, she explained.
"Why go build in Canada when you're not quite sure you're going to have duty-free access to that big American market?"

Barry Zekelman said the tariffs are not about steel dumping, but the NAFTA deadlock. (Dale Molnar/CBC)

Ken Neumann, the national director of the United Steelworkers of Canada, thinks the U.S. should focus on fighting "the bad actors" — countries which dump cheap metal into the North American market — instead of imposing tariffs on close trading partners.

• CBC BUSINESS | Now what? How steel and aluminum tariffs will impact Canada

"Every day we have a billion dollars worth of trade that crosses our borders," he said.

"And here is President Trump basically punishing your best neighbour. That's totally disrespectful, it's unconscionable."

Listen to the full conversation near the top of this page.