David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 49 others
Methinks Higgy and Holland should agree that if these folks are remotely sincere then they would have permitted me to debate their buddy Bruce Northrup during the last election N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/01/private-woodlot-owners-want-actual.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/private-woodlot-owner-market-share-1.5412643
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 49 others
"Content disabled"
Go Figure
https://nbwoodlotowners.ca/political-party-policy-survey-2018
These are the same people who barred me from debating Bruce Northrup during the last election while my brother in law's law firm partner was busy doing them in.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/private-woodlot-owner-market-share-1.5412643
Private woodlot owners want 'actual proof' their market share will increase
Market share of private woodlot owners has decreased since 1980s as mills have made use of Crown forest
· CBC News · Posted: Jan 02, 2020 2:52 PM AT
The New Brunswick Federation of Woodlot Owners believes an increased market share would boost the provincial economy. (Canadian Press)
Private woodlot owners are calling for legislative changes that spell out the larger market share they've been promised by the Progressive Conservative government.
The government announced last month it was freezing the amount of wood the big mills can take from publicly owned Crown land and giving woodlot owners a larger share of the market supplying the mills. The freeze would last five years.
The promise was welcomed by woodlot owners and conservationists, but both say the government needs to back it up with a change in the law.
"The proof will be in the legislative change," said Lois Corbett, the executive director of the Conservation Council of New Brunswick.
"So it is either going to be an empty gesture, lots of great talk, or it will be something that will be able to hold up in the legislative minutes and see actual proof."
Natural Resources Minister Mike Holland made the announcement on Dec. 19, saying the change would spur more economic growth.
Rick Doucett, the president of the association, said he'd like to see the woodlot owners' market share increase to 30 per cent. (CBC)
Holland wasn't explicit about the percentage of wood that private woodlots would provide to mills.
In 2015, Auditor General Kim MacPherson wrote in a report that the provincial government was not complying with a section of the Crown Lands and Forests Act.
That law says the minister of natural resources "shall ensure that private woodlots are a source of wood supply consistent with the principles of proportional supply and sustained yield."
Holland didn't say whether the changes are designed to comply with MacPherson's recommendations, but did say the government was responding to what private woodlot owners have been saying.
"I mean our objective is obviously for private landowners to be able to sell every stick of wood that they have available into the marketplace and not be competing with public resources and that's the ultimate goal," said Rick Doucett.
Half of the province's wood is on publicly owned Crown land, which is licensed to four big companies: J.D. Irving Ltd., Fornebu Lumber, Twin Rivers Paper Company and AV Group, which is made up of AV Nackawic and AV Cell.
Doucett said private owners only have between 15 and 20 per cent of the market share right now, but he'd like to see that increased to at least 30 per cent.
Lois Corbett, the executive director of the Conservation Council of New Brunswick, said the announcement is an acknowledgement that climate change is a reality in the province. (Jon Collicott/CBC)
The market share for private owners reached 28 per cent between the 1960s and 1980s but has decreased over the decades.
"It's been an unfortunate unravelling of the original intention of the Crown Lands and Forest Act," Doucett said.
"[It] was to make sure that private wood found its way to market first, unfettered by public resource supply and over the years, that act has been eroded by amendments made, through relentless lobbying pressure by certain entities and we're trying to get this reversed."
Corbett said she supports private woodlot owners having more of a market share because it could decrease clear cutting.
Mike Holland, the natural resources and energy development minister, didn't specify a percentage of wood that private woodlots would provide to mills. (CBC)
"If it goes according to the minister's wishes and some of his stakeholders and public interest groups like the conservation council's wishes, it should be a good step for nature," she said.
"Because what it does is it breaks that corporate hold on one of our most valuable natural treasures — our own Crown forest."
Corbett said she'd like to see changes to the law by mid-March.
"In a weird way, I am seeing an acknowledgement that climate change is happening, that maybe we need to change the way we look at our forests — not just as a supply of North America's toilet paper but as a supply of protection of our streams and rivers and of ourselves — ultimately for our small towns and communities next to the Crown forests."
With files from Information Morning Fredericton
52 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Raymond Amos
Methinks Lois Corbett should ask Rick Doucett what he does at his day job working for NB Power N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Methinks folks should read what the Irving media said about the private woodlot owner's concerns during the last provincial election. Anyone can Google the following words and review what was published if they are allowed behind their paywall N'esy Pas?
Sep 7, 2018 - Woodlot owners in southern New Brunswick got a chance to gril
David Raymond Amos
Methinks Rick Doucett should have a long talk with his former boss the Liberal Cabinet Minister Rick Doucett Perhaps he may run in the upcoming election in St Criox N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Go Figure
http://16573.mc.tritondigital.com/CBC_INFORMATION_MORNING_FREDERICTON_FROM_CBC_RADIO_NEW_BRUNSWICK_HIGHLIGHTS_P/media-session/5a3bf99d-5543-4446-a38d-3e610bf10976/infomornfred-Pt6m6Kfv-20200102.mp3
https://nbwoodlotowners.ca/political-party-policy-survey-2018
http://16573.mc.tritondigital.com/CBC_INFORMATION_MORNING_FREDERICTON_FROM_CBC_RADIO_NEW_BRUNSWICK_HIGHLIGHTS_P/media-session/5a3bf99d-5543-4446-a38d-3e610bf10976/infomornfred-Pt6m6Kfv-20200102.mp3
https://nbwoodlotowners.ca/political-party-policy-survey-2018
David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Go Figure https://nbwoodlotowners.ca/political-party-policy-survey-2018
These are the same people who barred me from debating Bruce Northrup during the last election while my brother in law's law firm partner was busy doing them in.
Methinks folks should see if the Irving media will allow them to read what they published about the aforementioned debate that CBC ignored Anyone can Google the following words N'esy Pas?
Sep 7, 2018 - Woodlot owners in southern New Brunswick got a chance to grill provincial election candidates this week in a debate tailored to issues
David Peters
Economically, there is no way private woodlot owners can profit. To select cut your property then remove/transport to the mill, monopoly controlled marketing board will only pay you half of what it cost to get it to the mill...and there is no other option, but to sell it to the monopoly at the price they set.
What's worst, however, is the resulting damage from clear-cutting and spraying.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @David Peters:
Nobody has any inherent right to be able to sell anything, just because they want to cut wood, doesn’t mean they will.
Nobody has any inherent right to be able to sell anything, just because they want to cut wood, doesn’t mean they will.
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Peters: Tell it to Higgy and Holland the next time you vote
David Peters
Reply to @Johnny Horton:
Is that a defense of commodity price control?
The negatives to price controls are numerous, but one of the worst on this file is the effect it's having on the overall management of the forests. Ppl who are real experts, within the system, expressed concern about current practices, and, shortly afterwards, got lawyers letters from the monopoly...some simply got fired from their positions.
There are many aspects to this file, but, maybe the most important is, who is policing this kind of a tilted playing field? The ones who are actually profiting the most from it?
David
Peters
Reply to @David Raymond Amos:
It appears, by the numbers of the last election, voters have done just that. Could be, too, that status quo just isn't sustainable.
It appears, by the numbers of the last election, voters have done just that. Could be, too, that status quo just isn't sustainable.
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @David
Peters: Imagine if some Independents found a few seats within the old
maison after the next provincial election. Methinks just one getting
elected in St Croix would make a serious change in the status quo in a
heartbeat N'esy Pas?
Travis Micheal Davis
Community-based management of crown forests should be the norm. As it is now, the mill owners manage the public resource for fibre. Communities could manage for whatever value they desire. Fibre being but I’ve value.
The fox guarding the henhouse is so 1980’s.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Travis Micheal Davis:
Or maybe there shouldn’t be any harvesting on crown lands.
Or maybe there shouldn’t be any harvesting on crown lands.
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Travis Micheal Davis: It worked in the 80s and it still works today much to the chagrin of many hens
Paul Bourgoin
Private woodlot owners want 'actual proof' their market share will increase, the facts have and are pointing only if Private industry in New Brunswick tolerates it!
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin:
No business or group in a free market should ever demand a certain percent of market,
No business or group in a free market should ever demand a certain percent of market,
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin: This is just more political spin that will go no where as usual
John Smith
alright yall welcome in im the crown gonna show ya a show
John Smith
Reply to @john smith:
see the bounci ball bounce along while i tell ya you will get
compensated for every sprig come in dont gleem to hard i got a show for u
take good care of them trees ya love i promise ill be fair
John Smith
Reply to @john smith: well keep em groomed and dont assume i will get ya a deal
John Smith
Reply to @john smith: all the while ya could saw it yourself as long as you can get a stamp
John Smith
Reply to @john smith:
but rest assured my friend ill let ya pay the rent just keep them taxes
rollin and we will grow this nation in cement
John Smith
Reply to @john smith:
dont worry friend its all for you im just a middle man ill get ya a
good deal just dont squeal we trying to take a state
John Smith
Reply to @john smith: before they realised it we had the woods birds and the border moved a klick
John Smith
Reply to @john smith: almost time to take er out of the hands of the trustees eh
David
Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @john smith: In a nutshell they are all crooks Correct?
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @john smith: Methinks thats an interesting sideshow for the circus N'esy Pas?
Johnny Horton
Or ya know get the government out of it (determining market shares, market boards), and let the free market determine share and who buys who’s wood.
Matt Steele
Reply to @Johnny
Horton: ......There is no free market for wood in N.B. when the big
Mills and Forestry companies are practically getting their wood for free
off of the Crown land leases . Why buy wood at fair market value from
private woodlot owners when you can get the wood practically for free
from the govt. controlled Crown lands . It started with the Frank
McKenna Liberals , and has been going on ever since .
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Matt Steele:
There’s other places to sell than the big mills.
There’s other places to sell than the big mills.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Johnny Horton:
But it takes some work ingenuity and effort. While instead it is much easier to complain,
Here’s a little secret, in a free market a business isn’t required to buy someone’s product st because they want to sell it to them. Those ills have zero obligation to ever buy wood from any specific person or group. No matter how much any group screams otherwise,
But it takes some work ingenuity and effort. While instead it is much easier to complain,
Here’s a little secret, in a free market a business isn’t required to buy someone’s product st because they want to sell it to them. Those ills have zero obligation to ever buy wood from any specific person or group. No matter how much any group screams otherwise,
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Matt
Steele: Methinks the wicked forestry games began before McKenna got his
big mandate but he certainly made things a lot worse Then Lord promised
to reverse McKenna's evil work if elected and of course that lawyer
never did N'esy Pas?
Roy Kirk
The simple market based approach would be to increase the stumpage rate on crown land so as to induce buyers to seek their wood elsewhere.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Roy Kirk: Its not rocket science
Justin Time
You can make the market share for private woodlot owners as big as you want,the price is still controlled by the big companies who get crown wood for a paltry sum.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: YUP
You
can make the market share for private woodlot owners as big as you
want,the price is still controlled by the big companies who get crown
wood for a paltry sum.Paul Bourgoin
Forest harvesting practices in New Brunswick has exceeded the forest's capability to grow trees to support, and supply the wood needed for industry to meet the demands requested by industry based on profit levels and not demands not sound forest management. Because of this assault on available cheap Crown land wood, it is affecting our forest habitat our rivers, lakes, and streams reducing our fish and wildlife populations. There is also the use in New Brunswick of Glyphosate a banned herbicide in the United States but not in Canada!!
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin: Methinks you should have listened to me when I called N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin: FYI These are the same people who barred me from debating Bruce Northrup during the last election while my brother in law's law firm partner was busy doing SNB in.
Bill Hamilton
1)Capping the harvest level from Crown Land does not guarantee increased harvest levels from Private Freehold. (I thought the Government has guaranteed a supply of wood to the Licensees)
2) Any private wood sold to the mills will still have to be price competitive with the low cost Crown wood. (Why not make the Licensees negotiate a price for private woodlot wood before the Crown wood is made available?)
3) listening to the interview with Mr. Doucett this AM on CBC I was amazed how the only NB companies mentioned were those that have already gone out of business. No one dared mention the "I" word.
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Bill Hamilton: Why didn't you mention the Irving Clan?
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Bill Hamilton:
4 Private woodlot owners should find their own markets. They have no entitlement, like any business, to have their product purchased where they wish,
4 Private woodlot owners should find their own markets. They have no entitlement, like any business, to have their product purchased where they wish,
David Raymond Amos
Methinks Higgy and Holland should agree that if these folks are remotely sincere then they would have permitted me to debate their buddy Bruce Northrup during the last election N'esy Pas?
Tim Biddiscombe
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: No one wants to hear from you..havent you figured that out yet N'esy Pas?
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Tim Biddiscombe: So you say EH?
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @David
Raymond Amos: Methinks Mr VanDuzee should agree that folks should Google
"Veritas Vincit" as well as "ad hominem" N'esy Pas oh ye who
graduated from Fat Fred City High with his pals such as Andy Scott 2
years after me?
David Peters
Imo, it's more likely clear-cutting huge tracts of land is responsible for recent flooding events than climate change.
...but, what's not being talked about is the effect that spraying is having on wildlife, including birds, deer, moose and earthworms.
On the economic side, there is no way to defend setting prices for a commodity. The marketplace needs to sort that out.
Monopoly control needs to be broken up so that better, safer, healthier, forest practices can take place. Would also spread the wealth around more evenly.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Peters: Cry me a river
Matt Steele
Private woodlot owners should certainly be cautious . Reminds me of when Frank McKenna's Liberals took most all govt. woodlot leases away from the little guys , and gave them to the big Mill and Forestry companies .Frank McKenna was all for the big corporations when he thought he would get some personal gain out of it ; and he still returns to the govt. trough every time a Liberal govt. comes to power . It has been almost impossible for the small woodlot owner to sell their wood for fair market value when the Mills and big Forestry companies get the wood practically free from the govt. Crown lands
Paul
Bourgoin
Reply to @Matt Steele: Could it be influenced by Political Party funding and Party support?
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Paul
Bourgoin: Methinks everybody knows that the politicians are just
following orders from the Irving Clan and their cohorts N'esy Pas?
http://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2018/09/attn-david-duncan-young-i-just-met-your.html
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