https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/boat-sunk-st-john-river-removed-disposed-not-a-starship-mark-griffin-coast-guard-1.7275358

Journey of once-sunken sailboat reaches end, volunteer salvor feels left high and dry

Mark Griffin shares ordeal since he helped raise and haul Not a Starship from St. John River last month

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon · CBC News · Posted: Aug 11, 2024 6:00 AM ADT

A split photo showing a sailboat on the water on the left and the scrapped remains on the right.

The saga of the once-sunken Not a Starship sailboat has finally come to an end with its disposal. The coast guard now considers the matter closed, says spokesperson Megan Gallant. (Michael Heenan/CBC and Mark Griffin)

No good deed goes unpunished. That's how Mark Griffin is feeling after he volunteered for public safety reasons to help raise and haul away a sailboat that sat at the bottom of the St. John River near Browns Flat for months with only the tops of its two masts visible.

Griffin, a Canadian Coast Guard contractor, took on the venture last month with hobby diver David Grandy and says it's been an ordeal ever since.

He estimates he spent between $5,000 and $10,000 in time, fuel and equipment between July 5 and 7 — closer to $30,000 if it had been a paid job he bid on.

That doesn't include the roughly 12 days he spent "babysitting" the moored Not a Starship at his Belleisle Bay marina to ensure the 13-metre boat didn't sink again. He had to wait for word from the coast guard about how the agency wanted to deal with the disposal, he said.

The boat did actually start to sink again at one point, when a 3,000-gallon-an-hour pump, which Griffin used for keeping pace with the water the vessel was taking on, malfunctioned.

"It wasn't down that far, but it was going down," he said. "If I would have went away somewhere for a day or two, that boat would have been sitting at the bottom at my place."

Sunken sailboat near Browns Flat towed closer to shore, says coast guard

Grandy estimated the operation cost him close to $2,000 in time, materials and drysuit repair.

Meanwhile, according to Griffin, they both sought legal advice when Grandy allegedly received a letter from the coast guard warning that he, having taken possession of the boat as the salvor when they hauled it — and therefore assumed ownership —could face up to $6 million in fines or three months in jail if he didn't see to its disposal.

"That really, like, floored us," said Griffin.

Salvor assumed ownership, liability, says coast guard

Grandy declined to comment on this, and coast guard spokesperson Megan Gallant did not confirm or deny when asked by CBC News. She did say, however, that "a salvage company claimed salvor's rights and, therefore, assumed ownership of the vessel."

"At the same time, the company became liable and responsible for all the costs of the removal under the [Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act]."

Gallant declined to clarify to whom she was referring as the "salvage company," citing privacy, but before the salvor "took on full ownership and liability, [the coast guard] informed the salvor of their obligations and responsibilities under [the act]," she said in an emailed statement.

An old, battered sailboat on the shore among some pieces of rusty metal. The sailboat was 'removed from the marine environment' on July 19, according to Coast Guard — about five months after it started to sink. (Mark Griffin)

Under the act, a vessel's owner is responsible for using the boat safely, keeping it in good working order and properly disposing of it when it reaches the end of its life.

"This also includes being responsible for any response efforts that may need to be taken to eliminate threats of pollution or hazards posed by the vessel," said Gallant.

"[The coast guard] can direct vessel owners to take measures to prevent, reduce, or eliminate hazards. We can also take actions to address hazardous vessels and hold vessel owners liable for the costs of addressing cleanups and remediation action we take."

Non-profit stepped up to cover disposal costs

To add insult to injury, Griffin said, the coast guard was prepared to pay a local salvage company to haul the boat out of the water and dispose of it, and he wasn't given an opportunity to bid on it.

The coast guard did not issue a tender, according to the spokesperson, but did receive a quote for the work from a local salvage company. Gallant declined to divulge the name of the company or the value of the quote.

That company didn't end up doing the work anyway.

"The owner of the vessel (the local salvage company that claimed salvor rights) indicated it had already been partially removed from the marine environment and they would complete it," Gallant said.

A tattered-looking sailboat. Not a Starship, which sat on the bottom of the St. John River after the spring thaw, was eventually moored at Mark Griffin's property in Erb's Cove for about two weeks last month. (Michael Heenan/CBC)

Griffin said he had already arranged for a local excavation company to do the job — partly because he was tired of being stuck with the boat tied up at his property in Erb's Cove, the former Belleisle Bay Marina, which he used to operate, while awaiting further direction from the coast guard.

"I have to go to work, I have to make a living too," he said.

He was also worried Grandy might get stuck with the coast guard contractor's bill, he said.

The longer that vessel was sitting at a dock … every day that was there, that was a moment of jeopardy.

- Dino Kubik, St. John River Society

The boat was ultimately hauled out, dragged up the beach, crushed, and disposed of in four dump truck loads at a "proper" undisclosed location on July 19, said Griffin. The St. John River Society, a local non-profit organization, stepped up to cover the costs.

"The society has a couple of main mandates and one of them is the wise, sustainable use of the river," said executive director Dino Kubik, before turning to what he called the environmental threat.

"And the longer that vessel was sitting at a dock … every day that was there, that was a moment of jeopardy.

"So anything we could have done to make sure that it came out in a timely manner and was disposed of correctly, that was within our mandate, and our directors in the Hatfield Point area … wanted to play that role," and ensure safe access to the river.

The total was in the "sub-$10,000 range," said Kubik.

'Didn't make a dime'

"I never got a dime of it," stressed Griffin. "Everybody's wondering how much money I made. I didn't make a dime doing this. Neither did Dave."

Griffin did salvage and keep one of the boat's two aluminum masts, which he previously told CBC could each be worth about $50,000 if the right buyer was found, but that could take years.

He said he'll probably "either cut it up for scrap, or if somebody wants a flagpole, come get it, cause it'll cost me that much to haul it to the dump."

A barge hauling an old sailboat. Griffin said he kept one of the boat's aluminum masts but will give it away to whoever wants it and can haul it away. (Denise Miller)

That's what he did with the other mast, he said. He gave it to the owner of the exacavation company handling the disposal to make a flagpole. An old wooden steering wheel went to the river society.

Griffin said the boat was stripped of contaminants, including the motor, fuel tanks and anything containing oil, before it was scrapped.

No word on consequences for original owner

As for Jordan Tatton, the original owner and person who let the boat sink in the first place, the coast guard did not respond to repeated questions from CBC News about what penalties or costs he has faced — if any.

Gallant said only that the original owner agreed to give salvor's rights and ownership under the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act to the local salvage company.

Tatton did not respond to a request for comment.

Double-masted sailboat submerged in ice nearly to the top of the roof of the cabin and surrounded by a circle of brownish water and then white ice outside the circle. Not a Starship frozen into the ice on the St. John River near Browns Flat, as seen on Feb. 14. (Roger Cosman/CBC)

The boat, which slowly started to sink into the ice in February, wound up at the bottom of the river by April with an early breakup of the ice.

It sat more than 400 metres offshore from Browns Flat until Griffin and Grandy raised and hauled it.

'Nobody got hurt'

"No good deed goes unpunished," Griffin said. " That's exactly what everybody's saying. That's the funny part about it. 'Why would you do it?' I heard that so many times."

Still, the boat's gone now and "nobody got hurt," he said. "If somebody would have got hurt, [the coast guard] would have been in a lot of kaka."

"Would I do it again? Within a second. I wouldn't even think about it," said Griffin. "Would I do it differently? I would not get in touch with anybody to tell them I'm doing it."

An excavator digs into a large, battered sailboat on the beach. Mark Griffin says he had already arranged for a local excavation company to dispose of the boat by the time the coast guard advised him July 18 that a salvage company the agency received a quote from would be on site the next day for removal. (Mark Griffin)

Grandy said he has no regrets either.

"I'm glad it's out. The hazard is gone," he said in a statement.

Asked what, if any environmental clean up was required, Gallant, at the coast guard, replied: "CCG was not involved in the removal, salvage or cleanup process of this vessel."

Two excavators dig into a large, battered sailboat on the beach, with a dump truck in the background. Griffin says all contaminants were removed from the boat and it was disposed of properly. (Mark Griffin)

She did not say which body would be responsible for ensuring a safe cleanup.

Gallant did say the coast guard conducted a pollution and hazards assessment Dec. 11, which concluded there was no risk "at that time."

The New Brunswick Department of Environment spokesperson Clarissa Andersen directed inquiries to the coast guard, as the lead agency.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices

154 Comments

David Amos

Interesting to see the coast guard get tough all of a sudden I smell politicking

David Amos

Reply to David Amos

I suspect that Higgy knows why the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard will be expecting another email from me

David Amos

Deja Vu Anyone?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/sunken-sailboat-wreck-removal-1.7190478

David Amos

Deja Vu Anyone?

2 Tory politicians join forces to demand feds remove sunken sailboat from St. John River

MP John Williamson and MLA Bill Oliver want immediate action from Ottawa

Mia Urquhart · CBC News · Posted: May 02, 2024

Anna Knorr

Wow, talk about gòvt incompetence. Where are the consequences to the original owner? This is just a tactic ok to the next guy who decides to let his boat sink unnecessarily

Steve Brockhouse
Reply to Anna Knorr

Assuming it was insured, the original owner took the insurance payout and the insurance company was the responsible party from then on.

David Amos

Reply to Steve Brockhouse

True if it was insured

Elliott Stranger

Reply to David Amos

I don’t think it was insured.

David Amos

Reply to Elliott Stranger

Nor I

MR Cain

Reply to Steve Brockhouse

There was nothing wrong with the boat. It was due to neglect that it sank, so insurance should not be paying anything.

Steve Brockhouse
Reply to MR Cain

Marine insurance is "All Hazards" insurance. It would be up to the insurance company to prove neglect and then charge the owner.

MR Cain

Reply to Steve Brockhouse

They just had to read the paper.

Marq See

Reply to Anna Knorr

not a government issue. 'the original owner agreed to give salvor's rights and ownership under the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act to the local salvage company.' No more responsibility, unknown what they might do, if anything at all. The salvor is a Coast Guard Contractor, there may be more behind the scenes than is reported.

Dennis Woodman

Good job it wasn’t Greenpeace flagship, with its 100,000 litre diesel engine. That would have been an environmental disaster …

David Amos

Reply to Dennis Woodman

"Ottawa has reached a $5 million out-of-court settlement over the recovery of the Irving Whale.

The oil tank barge, owned by JD Irving Ltd, sank of PEI 30 years ago.

It was lifted off the ocean floor in 1996 by the Canadian Coast Guard after concerns about a large-scale spill from the oil in the barge's hold.

The settlement was announced Monday and should end further legal battles over who should pay for the $42 million cleanup.

JD Irving has already paid approximately $4 million toward the recovery and cleanup of the Irving Whale."

Stan Johnson

Reply to Dennis Woodman

Do you think Greenpeace would leave their flagship to sink in the St Johns river?

Anna Knorr

Reply to Dennis Woodman

Great so again taxpayers are on the hook while corporations abscond with their bags of cash

David Amos

Reply to Anna Knorr

Par for the course

John Murray

Reply to Dennis Woodman

Imagine 15.9 million litres of Alberta bitumen sinking off the coast of BC.

Almost a tanker a day sails in this area with Alberta bitumen.

You are worried about just one fairly small ship.

Elliott Stranger

Reply to Dennis Woodman

Good job it wasn’t any number of other boats and ships. Greenpeace is much more responsible for its self and its equipment though so that entire made up scenario is not possible.

James Nelson

Reply to John Murray

That oil pays the bills.

MR Cain

Reply to Dennis Woodman

A pipeline in the western Canadian province of Saskatchewan has leaked 200000 liters (52834 gallons) of oil in an aboriginal community, 2017

Pipeline Spills 290,000 Litres of Crude Oil Emulsion in Northern Alberta, 2018

Dennis Woodman

Reply to Elliott Stranger

Just pointing out the irony, of an environmentalist group with a diesel engine ship.

Elliott Stranger

Reply to Dennis Woodman

There is no irony actually. They sail as much as they can and sometimes use the engine. Greenpeace is also mostly about preservation of the environment and protecting the animals that live there.

The thing the non climate change believers don’t get is no one is saying no oil they are saying we need to use far, far less of it than we do. If we stop burning it would be the first and best thing. We will still use it for solvents, pints, lubricants, plastics etc. but far less of it.

John Murray

Reply to James Nelson

That is what the Alberta oil and gas industry wants you to think. It is actually Ontario and Quebec who pay (by far) the most money into our federal coffers.

Dennis Woodman

Reply to Elliott Stranger

Greenpeace is quick to boast the Rainbow Warrior III is ‘as sustainable as possible,’ despite the fact that it is still, ultimately, reliant on fossil fuels. It’s engine, a Volvo Penta D65A MT 1850 HP, is a diesel-electric motor that uses fuel at the rate of 206 g/kWh of power as Greenpeace activists cruise it all over the world to protest the very resource its dependent on. This hypocrisy has been widely noted and the public record is rife with photos of the ship being refuelled by oil companies, including BP, which has often borne the brunt of Greenpeace’s campaigns.

Dennis Woodman

Reply to Dennis Woodman

Also it’s made of a lot of aluminum an intensive metal to manufacture. Of course, Greenpeace is philosophically opposed to aluminium, mounting campaigns against its use and manufacture, but is ultimately -like everyone else – reliant on it. Furthermore, the paint, rubber, seals and almost every other part of the boat is made possible by petroleum products. Every night the crew sit down in a galley with food prepared on a gas stove. Notice the trend emerging here?

Dennis Woodman

Reply to Elliott Stranger

Your wrong, it’s irony at it’s finest.

Gene Herman

Reply to John Murray

Does PEI pay any into the federal coffers?

Gene Herman

Reply to John Murray

Where have you seen it stated by Alberta Oil and Gas that they pay more money into the federal coffers than Ontario and Quebec? You made that up didn't you

Elliott Stranger

Reply to Dennis Woodman

I’m not wrong, sorry. You were trying to make some lame point and crashed and burned. Beautiful.

John Murray

Reply to Gene Herman

Every Islander who has enough income pays income tax to the federal government, at the same rates as all Canadians do.

John Murray

Reply to Gene Herman
You didn't read the comments, did you? James Nelson, on this thread, specifically stated "That oil pays the bills."

It is a common misconception among Albertans, and some other right wing people, that is often stated here, so no need to make it up.

Vic Madison

Reply to John Murray

All ocean going oil tankers are double hulled and I heard rumblings that other countries and countries own and operate oil tankers.

Vic Madison

Reply to John Murray

Between 2000 and 2021, the oil and gas sector paid $366.6 billion, or an average of $16.7 billion per year, in rents and royalties to provincial governments.

How much will those multi billion dollar corporations building battery plants in Eastern Canada paying in royalties for the $20 billion tax dollars they are getting?

John Murray

Reply to Vic Madison

Canada has an average yearly federal budget of about $330 billion. Oil income is minuscule compared to this. Anyone who thinks oil pays Canada's bills is just plain wrong.

John Murray

Reply to Vic Madison

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Manila_Bay_oil_spill

https://www.marinelink.com/news/crew-capsized-oil-tanker-off-oman-missing-515223

"A week later, an oil-storage vessel exploded off the coast of Nigeria. Within days, a Mauritian oil tanker had run aground off Reunión in the Indian Ocean. In Peru, workers are still cleaning up a spill that, according to some accounts, occurred when a tanker was rocked by tsunami waves. Experts are nervously watching another tanker off the coast of Yemen, which is slowly disintegrating in the midst of a war and an existing humanitarian crisis."

(The Atlantic, Feb. 2022)

Jimmy Vee

volunteers by definition do not get paid unless they work for a bank.

David Amos

Reply to Jimmy Vee

Many a true word is said in jest

Jimmy Vee

This whole drama highlights the gaps in good or best practices in international marine law, Canada Coast Guard rules of engagement, provincial operations and whatever should be done versus what can be done under current laws or agencies. If you tour Canada's coastlines you will see in all across this nation abandoned boats, some floating, some sunk near the shore and others pulled up on the beach rotting away, meanwhile local folks and government bodies pointing their fingers in every direction.

David Amos

Reply to Jimmy Vee

Well put

james bolt

How is it that someone in the salvage business does not know all of these laws of salvage?

David Amos

Reply to james bolt

Good question

Joe smith

Reply to james bolt

Totally agree...

Art Rowe

No good deed goes unpunished.

Meanwhile the "authorities" fail to pursue the real owner and make them pay for the salvage.

Oh NO, it's much easier to threaten the volunteers with having to pay for doing a service to the public.

Anyone else see something wrong with this?

Jimmy Vee

Reply to Art Rowe

In Canada civil courts can not compel anyone to pay anything, you lose so what.

David Amos

Reply to Art Rowe

I do

Steve Brockhouse

Reply to Art Rowe

If the 'original owner' took an insurance payout, he was no longer the owner.

Bob Ruin

Reply to Art Rowe

It seems typical of any government entity these days, do very little that is productive, protect their cushy jobs, and fleece the population.

David Sampson

Reply to Art Rowe

“As for Jordan Tatton, the original owner and person who let the boat sink in the first place, the coast guard did not respond to repeated questions from CBC News about what penalties or costs he has faced — if any.”

It remains unanswered Art if the coast guard assessed any fines/penalties on the original owner and further, the article doesn’t specify how, if any, ownership of the vessel was assigned to the salvage company. Additionally, we don’t know if the vessel was insured or if so, if any insurance claim was filed or paid. We do know that a volunteer organization took it upon themselves to remedy the problem.

Seems the author of the article truly wanted to focus their attention on the benevolent behaviour of the volunteer organization rather that focus on legal or regulatory matters.

Art Rowe

Reply to Steve Brockhouse

OK, that computes, but then the insurance company is the owner so go after them.

Same difference no matter WHO was the legal owner.

Robert Fish

Whatever will we do when we can finally stop reporting on this like its the Edmund Fitzgerald?

Art Rowe

Reply to Robert Fish

Well, they are again dredging up the Titan story and now there are more angles to pontificate about.

David Amos

Reply to Robert Fish

Vote

Allan Marven

There's one born every day. Should have left it a the bottom of the river.

Art Rowe

Reply to Allan Marven

Your point is taken, BUT it was a hazard to others wishing to enjoy the water because it was so shallow it was a navigation hazard.

David Amos

Reply to Allan Marven

Yup

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/sunken-sailboat-wreck-removal-1.7190478

2 Tory politicians join forces to demand feds remove sunken sailboat from St. John River

MP John Williamson and MLA Bill Oliver want immediate action from Ottawa

Mia Urquhart · CBC News · Posted: May 02, 2024 4:07 PM ADT

Two poles and a floating blue object are all that's visible above the water line.

This is all that's visible of the sailboat that was frozen into the ice of the St. John River over the winter. (Roger Cosman/CBC)

The April 30 deadline to remove a sunken sailboat from the St. John River has come and gone and the Not a Starship is still sitting on the bottom.

On Wednesday, the area's provincial and federal elected officials teamed up to call on Ottawa to "immediately remove the wrecked vessel."

MP John Williamson and MLA Bill Oliver specifically want Transport Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard to remove the remains of the sailboat and, in a joint statement, criticized both for underestimating "the immediate risks posed by Not a Starship."

"Visible evidence of the vessel's diesel, generator fuel and battery fluid leaking into the river throughout the winter was not enough to convince federal officials that this wreck was abandoned," said the statement.

WATCH | Not a Starship now a boating hazard:

Continuing saga of the sunken sailboat

1:43

MLA Bill Oliver describes the danger posed by the boat that now sits on the bottom of the St. John River, near Browns Flat, in his riding. He and MP John Williamson are calling on federal officials to remove it immediately.

"Now, its 17-metre mast pierces the water from the river's bed, posing a clear risk to unsuspecting boaters. Likelihood of a collision has only heightened as nearby boat traffic increases with warmer weather."

Last month, an official with Transport Canada said if the boat wasn't removed by the owner by April 30, it would be "deemed as abandoned under the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, and the owner could face enforcement actions, including monetary penalties."

This week, Transport Canada spokesperson Katherine Proulx said a department official made a visit Wednesday to Not a Starship to "assess the situation." She was asked for more details about the assessment but has not yet responded.

Oliver, a Progressive Conservative MLA, said people have environmental and safety concerns about the sunken boat.

"We need to have the boat removed immediately before boating activities increase, we've waited long enough, the time to act is now," he said.

Two men in foreground with a body of water behind them and a light-coloured pole barely visible out of the water. MP John Williamson and MLA Bill Oliver pose at Beulah Camp, with one of the two masts of the sunken Not a Starship barely visible in the background. (Bill Oliver/Facebook)

Both Oliver and Williams called on Transport Minister Pablo Rodriguez and Fisheries Minister Diane Lebouthillier to "overrule their departments and use the federal powers granted to them under the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act to remove this wreck immediately."

Williamson, a Conservative MP, said he has another worry, in addition to the environmental and navigational concerns.

"The third one is bureaucratic — that the boat might not be removed anytime soon and that's the primary reason that I joined Bill Oliver today in voicing our concerns — to focus attention on this problem, so it's not studied to death, but in fact, it is acted upon as quickly as possible."

Man in sunglasses sits on a tub on the deck of a sailboat, smoking a cigarette. In January, boat owner Jordan Tatton said he looked forward to returning to his boat and the hot tub. (Submitted by Jordan Tatton)

The boat's owner, Jordan Tatton, did not respond to interview requests.

In an interview in January, however, Tatton said his boat was definitely not abandoned. In fact, at that time, he had planned to spend the winter on it.

He also dismissed concerns about his boat, confident it would survive the winter.

By that time, local residents had been expressing concerns about the sailboat for months — even long before the river froze.

A double-masted sailboat is frozen into the ice on a body of water. Sailboat frozen into the ice on the St. John River near Browns Flat on Jan. 9, 2024. The Not a Starship as seen on Jan. 9, 2024, frozen into the ice of the St. John River near Browns Flat. (Michael Heenan/CBC)

They worried about the environmental damage should the boat sink, since it was equipped with a diesel engine, a generator, and the batteries necessary to operate the solar panels.

Even at the time the boat started to sink in February, the Coast Guard said it wasn't concerned about pollution.

Within days of it sinking, a spokesperson said there was a "minimal amount of non-persistent oils" on the vessel, meaning the type of fuel on board would have evaporated from the surface of the water within 48 hours.

Double-masted sailboat submerged in ice nearly to the top of the roof of the cabin and surrounded by a circle of brownish water and then white ice outside the circle. Not a Starship frozen on Feb. 14 as it sank into the ice. (Roger Cosman/CBC)

Williamson said the boat's been on the bottom long enough.

"I understand that fuels do evaporate and they can have minimum impact on the environment," he said in an interview on Wednesday. "Having said that, I do not want this studied to death."

Williamson and Oliver both said they've received a lot of messages from concerned constituents.

Two masts sticking out of the water in a river, far from shore. Not a Starship on April 11 in front of Beulah Camp on the St. John River. (Roger Cosman/CBC)

"I've also received many emails from boaters — mostly sailors and power boaters — that use the river on a regular basis that would just like to see the boat gone," said Oliver.

He said there are already boats out on the river — and he expects the number to increase quickly as conditions improve. Most will not be on the lookout for large metal poles sticking out of the water, he said.

"These are just the tips of the masts that might not be visible — in the evening, they certainly wouldn't be," Oliver said. "So no, it's a concern, there's no question about it."

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Mia Urquhart

Mia Urquhart is a journalist with CBC New Brunswick, based in Saint John. She can be reached at mia.urquhart@cbc.ca.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices

67 Comments

David Amos

Deja Vu Anyone? This was in the news on my birthday the year after I had run for public office the last time

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/irving-whale-deal-reached-1.249709

David Amos

Reply to David Amos

"Ottawa has reached a $5 million out-of-court settlement over the recovery of the Irving Whale.

The oil tank barge, owned by JD Irving Ltd, sank of PEI 30 years ago.

It was lifted off the ocean floor in 1996 by the Canadian Coast Guard after concerns about a large-scale spill from the oil in the barge's hold.

The settlement was announced Monday and should end further legal battles over who should pay for the $42 million cleanup.

JD Irving has already paid approximately $4 million toward the recovery and cleanup of the Irving Whale."

David Amos

Reply to David Amos

Now some folks may understand why I think this nonsense is Too Too Funny

David Amos

Too Too Funny

Benoit Boudreau

Reply to David Amos

Now you're laughing alone at your own jokes?

David Amos

Reply to Benoit Boudreau

Methinks you should rethink that considering the fact that I am now laughing at you as well N'esy Pas?

David Amos

Reply to David Amos

Why is it that nothing surprises me anymore?

Al Clark

Reply to Benoit Boudreau

Split personality?

David Amos

Reply to Al Clark

Surprise Surprise Surprise He flags my replies just like you often do

David Amos

I wonder what would happen if I pulled a "Mary Ellen Carter" stunt

David Amos

IMHO The are lots of folks who are very capable of making that boat float again

I have no doubt they are waiting to see if they have the legal right to do so

David Amos

Reply to David Amos

I have every right to contact these people as well

"Both Oliver and Williams called on Transport Minister Pablo Rodriguez and Fisheries Minister Diane Lebouthillier to "overrule their departments and use the federal powers granted to them under the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act to remove this wreck immediately."

Wilbur Ross

Meh. People used to put old cars out on the ice and bet on when they would sink. But the Tories are environmentalists now.