David Raymond Amos@DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others I
saw no need to be redundant but methinks the law school students and
the "Powers That Be" within UNB would have read my comments on this
subject by Now N'esy Pas Mr Higgs?
David Raymond Amos@DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others Methinks the political pundits in Fundy Royal and the rest of Canada as well should pay attention to the comments in this article before the writ is dropped N'esy Pas?
UNB law school urged to shed name linked to slavery, residential school
307 comments Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Amos Methinks
anyone with two clues between their ears who reads the news these days
from whatever the source should always ask themselves the elementary
question "Cui Bono?" As I glanced at the attack on the reputation of
lawyer who was loyal to the British Crown nearly 100 years before the
Dominion of Canada was created the answer was obvious to me particularly
in light of the fact that Mr Prime Minister Trudeau the Elder is about
to ask the the Queen Vice Regal Representative to drop the writ for
another wicked election N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Methinks when the
wannabe lawyer and proud member of the Manitoba Metis Federation returns
to from whence she came she may wish to solicit the wannabe Premier
Wabanakwut Kinew to tear down the Manitoba legislature which was dreamed
up by the British architect Frank Worthington Simon N'esy Pas?
David Amos Methinks
my political foes are expecting me to make a comment about the photo
from Fundy Royal found within this article Sometimes less is more
However I will has good reason to say a lot if it goes "Poof" N'esy Pas?
David Amos "I
definitely want every law student and lawyer in this province to know
about George Duncan Ludlow, but not to look up to him."
Methinks this young lady and I should have a long talk ASAP hopefully before the writ is dropped N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: The "David Amos Hall" after that famous lawyer, in his own mind!
Dan Lee
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps:
errrr passs.............
David Amos Methinks
the law dean John Kleefeld should check his records and find the letter
and pile of documents I served in hand to his predecessor Philip Bryden
the current Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Solicitor General of
Alberta. I met Bryden within his office at Ludlow Hall while I was
running in the election of the 39th Parliament and not long after I was
barred from an advertised "all candidates debate; on the UNB campus. He
actually thanked me for them. A copy of the aforementioned documents
can be found in the docket of Federal Court in Fredericton for any law
student to study. Trust that nearly every cop, lawyer and judge in New
Brunswick knows the first decision in the matter was made by the former
RCMP lawyer Justice Richard Bell. All politicians know Bell was the
first lawyer Harper appointed to sit on the Queens Bench after the
election. Nobody can deny that Bell had overseen the political campaigns
for the 38th and 39th Parliaments for Harper and his cohorts in New
Brunswick N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos:
he was. He played his card well by turning his coat from a Liberal to
the Canadian Alliance which assured him a judgeship as soon as Harper
won the election after merging with the progressive conservatives.
However, no one can question his qualifications. He is fluently
bilingual to boot and a most popular choice!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks you SANB dudes must have shuddered when you read his decision in my matter N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps Reply
to @David Amos: I have no idea. Never even knew about the decision. And
why should I? What's so special about it besides the fact that it
concerns you?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: What's this goofy guy next to Goofy in your avatar?
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks you and all you liberal/SANB buddies read every word
You will never admit tis all N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos:
what makes you think that you are so relevant that everyone should know
about your frivolous and vexatious litigation?
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks you just made it blatantly obvious that you
liberal/SANB dudes read what the liberal lawyer working for the Queen
wrote Hence you must have read the decisions particularly Richard Bell's
and that of the Irving Clan's former lawyer Richard Southcott They are
both Conservatives N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps Reply to @David Amos: if you thnk so...
Harold Wood This
is why New Brunswick is the banana republic of Canada. We allow our
government and now our learning institutions to concentrate and pay for
the ills of the past and completely ignore the poor management of the
present. We are beset with failing education, health, infrastructure and
weighted language laws and show little or no attempt to improve.
Perhaps that is the way for them to ignore the the corruption that works
behind closed doors in this province.
David Amos
Reply to @Harold Wood: I wholeheartedly agree sir
David Amos
Reply to @Harold Wood: Need I say welcome to the circus as you scroll down ?
Marguerite Deschamps Ludmow Hall, then!
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks you are too dumb to quit flogging a dead horse N'esy Pas?
David Amos Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Too Too Funny
David Amos Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: "lord and behold; and we were just waiting for the dumbest to join in!"
Surprise Surprise Surprise When I did I was blocked
FYI Methinks everybody knows its "Lo and behold" and "Carved in stone" unless on parle Chiac then anything goes N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply
to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks the SANB and all the wannabe liberal
lawyers wish to forget that lawyers such as George Duncan Ludlow and
Sir John A. MacDonald were men of their times just like the Yankee
rebels Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were. The slavery issue south
of the 49th was not settled until after the Yankees suffered through a
rebellion of their own However thanks to the Brits indentured servants
(white slavery) remained in Canada for quite sometime after MacDonald
made a deal with the Queen and created the Dominion of Canada N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Ludmow Hall, then!
Lou Bell I
guess that would mean U de M should be shedding lots of names on it's
buildings ! Maybe just call them all " The SANB/ followed by Law or Arts
or Kinesiology , whichever building their Liberal endorsers steer OUR
money to ! And even the sports fields they tried steering the millions
of OUR money to through the franco phonie games
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Lou DumbBell: so obsessed about U de M, SANB aren't you! How about getting your head examined?
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks you should take your own advice N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: I will. And I suggest, so should you, with your silly and redundant "N'esy pas".
David Amos Reply
to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks a little Chiac from Fundy Royal has
been a valuable tool to help expose the motives of the SANB and many
questionable political people who support its malicious nonsense
throughout my native land before the writ is dropped N'esy Pas?
James Vander I
can't get over how delicate a society we've become. So, do we change
history and take out all the "bad parts"? Or do we learn from history
and move on? Hiding the truth never seems to do much good. Good or bad,
it's what has happened.....
Helen Gorne
Reply to @James Vander: "Social Media ?"
David Amos
Reply to @James Vander: I agree
David Amos Reply to @James Vander: Hmmm
"McGill, who only recently felt comfortable about speaking out on the
issue, said the university knows enough about Ludlow to know what a
problem his history is for students.
"It says to me that the university doesn't care about history and about
truth and about reconciliation," she said. "It made me feel very
unwelcome."
Methinks if Madame McGill truly means what she says then she should
employ the skills taught to her in Ludlow Hall to sue UNB in order to
force it to change the name of the building N'esy Pas?
Marc Bourque OMG it’s part of history !!
David Amos
Reply to @Marc Bourque: Double DUHHH???
Marc Bourque
Reply to @David Amos: its double duhhhh for those who want to change the past..aim your cannon elsewhere .
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Marc Bourque: a dark part of history, I might add.
David Amos
Reply to @Marc Bourque: Methinks you desperate SANB dudes are the loose cannons on deck N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: and you're just firing blanks.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks you should look for your name published elsewhere N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps Reply to @David Amos: I'm not like you; I do not thrive getting my name in the news.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks you know as well as I why my name is rarely in the
news but it is all over the Internet as is yours because you attacked me
N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps Reply to @David Amos: attack you? I would never do such a thing. You are so sensitive!
Mac Isaac
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: NOW, that's a good one! Good onya, Mme. Deschamps.
David Amos Reply to @Mac Isaac: A typical response
Rod McLeod
Smarten up!
David Amos
Reply to @Rod McLeod: DUHHH???
Jason
McTavish @Marguerite
Deschamps: Elizabeth the first and Henry the eight came way after the
Magna Carta. They were tyrants of the worst king that would bring the
Kadafi and Saddam Hussein regimes to shame.
--------> But of course, you would simply re-name whatever it is
after Shakespeare and sweep old Henry VIII and Elizabeth I under the
rug, right Marguerite?
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: the Magna Carta dates all the way back to King John; prince
John as he was known in the Robin Hood TV series.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks some folks don't watch TV as much as you do N'esy Pas?
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: that was when I was just a little kid.
Jason
McTavish @Marguerite
Deschamps: Elizabeth the first and Henry the eight came way after the
Magna Carta. They were tyrants of the worst king that would bring the
Kadafi and Saddam Hussein regimes to shame.
----------->The reign of Elizabeth I and Henry VIII, respectively,
was hardly "totalitarian" under any competent definition of the term.
Not even Louis XIV, the absolute ruler of France, could be said to have
had a totalitarian regime. Totalitarianism means total state control
over all forms of communication, expression, thought, belief, public
activity. It's a 20th century and to a lesser extent 21st century
phenomenon. It's totally false to compare the English monarchs from 400
years ago to the power and control of Muammar Gaddafi or Saddam Hussein.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: off went your head if you dared question their authority! Where's the difference ?
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks thats the reason the RCMP keeping trying to lock me up N'esy Pas?
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: they are forever suspicious of bikers, maybe.
Jef
Cronkhite Am
I the only person who thinks that judging events of the past by today's
standards is ludicrous? This is all getting out of hand. Society has
changed drastically, just in the past 25 years, and to hold anyone or
anything from our past up to today's standards is an exercise in
futility!
There is not very much in humanity's past that could stand in the light
of the standards we have set for ourselves for today. Very few of our
"heroes" of the past could possibly endure the scrutiny on their lives
and actions that we are setting in the world as it stands now.
In OUR future, new generations are going to see what WE did, in our
time. Do we want our progeny looking at back at US, and judging US by
THEIR standards? Standards that we don't currently adhere to, or that
don't even exist yet?
I think we need places like this to LEARN from, and we need to face the
mistakes of our past so that we don't repeat them again in the future.
We need to realize that people who came before us had different lives,
different challenges, and a much different moral code than we have now.
Certainly, we don't need to glorify the mistakes of the past, but we
can't be vilifying people for doing what was considered right and
correct in the age in which they lived.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @Jef
Cronkhite: no doubt that our generation will be judged harshly by the
generations to come; if they do come, that is!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks some folks are already judging you rather harshly and deservedly so N'esy Pas?
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: judges without any power at all! What would I care?
Steve Dueck
Reply to @Jef Cronkhite: political correctness gone amuck...
Roger
Richard Reply
to @Jef Cronkite: "In OUR future, new generations are going to see what
WE did, in our time. Do we want our progeny looking at back at US, and
judging US by THEIR standards? Standards that we don’t currently adhere
to, or that don’t even exist yet? »
If we take for exemple the wireless technology, yes we will be judged
harshly. We do not want to look at the evidences to set up standards
that reflect reality. It is because that technology is so convenient.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @Roger Richard: you sure get my drift, Roger!
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Roger
Richard: You tell them mon ami. Methinks you should ignore Deschamps
trying to steal your thunder and lower the boom of the VERY insincere
SANB/liberal wacko N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps How
about naming the building after Saint John native, Abraham Beverley
Walker, the first Canadian-born black lawyer then. Being dead, he would
qualify.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks the SANB and your lawyer buddies are no doubt very proud of you today N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: I don't know. I didn't ask them.
Helen Gorne Helen of Troy was not the nicest lady on the block, maybe I should change my name.
Helen Gorne
Reply to @Helen Gorne: How about Boudicea ?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Helen Gorne: Helen Deschamps! Good point!
Dan Lee
Reply to @Helen Gorne:
But....But....it was said she was sommmmme beauty.............l
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dan Lee: Methinks everyone is far better looking than your buddy Deschamps N'esy Pas?
Dan Lee
Reply to @David Amos:
Even you???????
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Dan Lee: hard to tell with that beard he is hiding behind!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks you SANB dudes forgot that I was clean shaven in the
provincial election last fall N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: I did not follow you enough to know. Pardon my ignorance, oh great one!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Pure D BS
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: if you think so...
Wally Manza many
have in the past felt unwelcome studying in the building, many do today
and if this is New Brunswick, many in the future will.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Wally Manza: you betcha!
Dan Lee
Reply to @Wally Manza:
i wonder who did the labour to build it..........
Peter Pelkey
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: the past is the past is the past. Can't change it so "Get Over It!"
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Peter Pelkey: good point! Let's embrace today's bilingual New Nouveau-Brunswick and Canada!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methnks you will never quit pounding on the SANB drum N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: NEVER!!!
James Risdon
Reply to @Wally Manza: There are other universities. No-one is forcing them to attend UNB.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: as I have already stated; it was the only law school in New Nouveau-Brunswick prior to 1978.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks poor Newfoundland ain't got a law school yet and
they joined Canada before even I was born N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: neither does P.E.I.
James Risdon Reply
to @Marguerite Deschamps: Big deal. It's not like someone can't move to
another province and study there. Kids do it all the time. I didn't
live in my parents' house when I went to university.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: neither did I! I was just replying to David. You are quoting me out of context.
James Risdon Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: I'm not quoting you at all. See? No quotation marks.
David Amos
Reply to @James Risdon: Methinks you two deserve each other N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps Reply to @David Amos: yet you cannot resist joining the fray!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks everybody knows I love the Circus particularly as I
watch two Clowns dicing about religion. Small wonder I call you dudes
dumb and dumber. I trust that all your liberal/SANB buddies know that
Risdon was the Master of Disaster for the KISS Party during the last
election N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps Reply to @David Amos: just like you, David! Only James got more votes than you.
Bob Smith Given
the majority of buildings on the UNB campus are named after British
named people of the past, renaming the structures to satisfy today's
society could be a huge problem....
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Bob Smith: rather a good riddance!
Bob Smith
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Whitewashing of history isn't always a good thing...and where
do you stop? English...French...Catholic...Baptist...Indigenous...hard
to find names of the past that don't have connections to incidents that
today's populace find offensive.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Bob Smith: Noname buildings perhaps?
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks we should put the name you use on one N'esy Pas?
Junkman George
Reply to @Bob Smith:
Unicorn Hall, or how about Rainbow Hall?
I'm sure there are many meaningless choices......................
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Junkman George: "Rainbow Hall". Hadn't thought of that one!
James Risdon
Reply to @Junkman
George: The rainbow is the symbol of God's covenant with His people, His
promise that there would never be a flood to wipe out all life on the
planet.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: not any more!
James Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: If you check with catechism teachers the world over, you will
learn that young children are still being taught that the rainbow is a
symbol of God's covenant with His people.
Reply to @James Risdon: I guess you will now say that the symbol has been hyjacked by the devil!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks you should know N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: what is it that I'm supposed to know?
James
Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: I do not consider LGBTQ+ people to be any more the devil than
I am. We're all just people, hopefully trying go live good, decent
lives in spite of whatever failings and foibles may have.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: your church abolished the limbo. Did they now abolish hell and its devils?
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @James
Risdon: then why don't you tell your almighty guy in the sky to put an
end to all the pain and suffering of innocent beings going on in his
creation. Or Better yet, tell your pope who claims to be his
representative down here on this planet to tell him himself. After all,
didn't one of his predecessor proclaim that he was infallible?
James
Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: I'm not sure what this theological discussion has to do with
the naming a law school building in Fredericton. It seems to me you've
veered way, way off subject.
If you'd like more information on the actual teachings of the Roman
Catholic church, then I invite you to consult with the Catechism of the
Catholic Church online at http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
I am sure the CBC would agree that this is not the place for a detailed lesson on the fundamentals of the Catholic faith.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @James
Risdon: "The rainbow is the symbol of God's covenant with His people,
His promise that there would never be a flood to wipe out all life on
the planet."
Then why were you the first to bring up your god into the equation? You
sound a lot like Trump, forgetting what you said just a few minutes
ago.
James Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: I sound like a billionaire capitalist reality show star who
beat all the odds to become president of one of the most powerful
nations on Earth? Thanks! That's quite a compliment.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: only in the good ole US of A such a klown could get elected and keep on acting as such.
Marguerite
Deschamps
The same powerful
nation where they consistently mass-murder each other. There is news of
another one as I write. Sure something to be proud of! The folly of it
all is that the sale of firearms will go up as a result.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Cry me a river
Jason
McTavish it
would be worth looking at the experience of really old universities
like Oxford and Cambridge, which have colleges with names dating back to
literally the medieval period. Surely they have run into this
controversy themselves as British society changed over the centuries. It
would be worth examining how they have handled the issue. There is a
very fine balance between amending public names to reflect contemporary
societal values that are at odds with the societal values at the time,
and erasing the past.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: such a good example you are giving! A country that prides
itself of being a democracy all the while clinging to vestiges of a
totalitarian system of a bygone era. What an oxymoron clinging to such
malarkey!
Jason
McTavish
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: No, totalitarianism is a very uniquely 20th century
phenomenon, and to some extent that 21st. The democracy there goes
straight back to the Magna Carta. I think it's an extremely good example
because those are ancient universities, among the very, very best in
the world, and they have probably been faced with this issue and have
some experience dealing with it.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: Elizabeth the first and Henry the eight came way after the
Magna Carta. They were tyrants of the worst king that would bring the
Kadafi and Saddam Hussein regimes to shame.
Helen Gorne
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Perhaps the energy you expend in anger about times past could
be put to constructive use in the present troubled world.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Helen Gorne: not angry at all; just stating what went on in history. Would it be the truth that angers you?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks the awful truth is that the truth is what angers you N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
David, can't reply to you. Your post went "poof" Shucks !
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks you know the reason why because its the same reason
yours are going "poof" as well N'esy Pas?
Jason
McTavish Here
in Edmonton we have an oil industry. We also have a university called
the University of Alberta that runs about a 2 billion dollar a year
budget. A lot of that is paid by the oil industry. Through taxes. We all
know that the oil industry is terrible and destroying the world. This
means that the University of Alberta's name should be changed to the
University of Strathcona, due to its location in the Strathcona
neighbourhood of Edmonton. British Columbia's University should be
called the University of Pacific knowledge, because we all know that
British Columbia was very discriminatory towards Asians at some point in
the past. By erasing the past, and ignoring the past, young generations
will be well prepared to deal with the future. Also, when things are
named after causes that are falling out of fashion, everyone knows that
the name should be changed, the history and the tradition
notwithstanding.
Mac Isaac
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: Don't be too sure, Mr. McTavish, that somebody at a future
time and date won't find some smidgen of information that will tarnish
Lord Strathcona's name...after all he did live just a jot of time after
Mr. Ludlow and we know how persnickety some can be about being "from
another time"! No, I suggest we leave all buildings, bridges and the
like nameless, so Ludlow Hall could be called "That big gray building
just above that road that goes the west entrance to UNB...you know the
one...the one that's just down from STU...oh forget about!"
James
Risdon
Reply to @Mac Isaac:
If you're looking to give directions in New Brunswick, the secret is to
tell someone to go where the thing that used to be there but has now
been demolished and replaced used to be.
Something like ... "Keep going straight until you get to the big white
rock where Theriault's Grocery Store used to be. Then, turn right and go
until the old train tracks beside the Wendy's. Take the demolished
fishing plant road to the end and beside John Gray's dad's chicken coop
you'll find the entrance to the road beside the maple that used to be
there. You can't miss it!"
David Amos
Reply to @James
Risdon: Methinks you should ask directions to find a certain road the
connect Wards Creek to the Fundy Park Road then ask why the name was
changed by the province recently N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: why would we even want to go there?
Marguerite Deschamps
Well, just to sing:
This land is my land
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Who is we?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: me, myself and I!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Me Myself and I???
Methinks there are no coincidences I have no doubt that you are teasing
me about the name of YouTube video mine about the night I was talking
to Steve Murphy about the reasons why I was running in the election of
the 39th Parliament against your buddies N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: which buddies of mine?
Jason
McTavish This
is an easy one. That's a law school. People bust their a ss to get in,
to stay in, and then to make their careers as lawyers. They're the ones
who have the right to suggest what the name should be, not busy bodies
here who have nothing better to do on a Saturday morning.
James Risdon
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: So .... You wouldn't accept my suggestion that it should be
renamed the University of James Risdon? ;-)
Jason
McTavish
Reply to @James Risdon: I think that's a great idea. )
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: yet having admitted that you have never attended this law
school, you are advocating keeping the Ludlow name. How about practising
what you preach?
James Risdon
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: I think so too. I've never had slaves or given money to prop
up a residential school. That should be enough. My lack of a law degree
or any meaningful contribution to our legal system should not in any way
be a hindrance to renaming the university after me.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: no! James Risdon is still alive. This rules him out. You said it!
James Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: You could rename the university to University of James Risdon
and claim it is being named in honour of my namesake, a young man who
took part in the Klondike gold rush and returned home a millionaire.
He's dead now.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: Oh! That James Risdon, you impostor!
James Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: I'm the valuable James Risdon. He was just my precursor, like
John the Baptist for Jesus - or a warm-up act before the big star.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: I would make an exception in your case, even though you are still alive.
James Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: I'm afraid I've become quite lost and confused during our
exchange and now no longer know what it is you are proposing.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: naming the UNB law school after you!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks that would feed your pal's ego too much and we would
subject to much more of his nonsense N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @James Risdon: WOW
" I've never had slaves or given money to prop up a residential school.
That should be enough. My lack of a law degree or any meaningful
contribution to our legal system should not in any way be a hindrance to
renaming the university after me."
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: like that TV commercial: "Feeding your wild side! Messing with Sasquatch!" ... aka David Amos.
James Risdon If
we're going to try to appease social justice warriors by removing the
names of men and women who have held unpopular beliefs from buildings,
the only solution I can see is to name all buildings after newborn
infants who have not yet done anything at all.
Mac Isaac
Reply to @James
Risdon: Ahhhh, but they WILL and there's the rub! Some future generation
will be faced with the onerous task of defacing or banishing their
names
James Risdon
Reply to @Mac Isaac: Correction then. Comatose newborn infants.
Marguerite Deschamps
Content disabled
Reply to @James Risdon: who knows; you may qualify!
David Amos
Reply to @Mac Isaac: Yea Right
Marguerite Deschamps
@James Risdon: you qualify with the flyng colours of the rainbow!
James Risdon I am myself Metis. I see no problem whatsoever in having a law school named after Charles Duncan Ludlow.
This is a man who lived at a time when slavery and residential schools
were commonplace. Almost everyone was pro-slavery and residential
schools back then. It is absurd in the extreme to judge this man based
on today's human rights laws and social mores.
It's not necessary to approve of every belief and/or practice of every
man or woman whose name appears on a building to recognize them for
their achievements.
The fact is, it would an exhausting exercise in futility for us to
expunge the names from any and all buildings, roads, bridges, rivers,
lakes, cities and towns the names of any historical personage who ever
held a view contrary to the current politically-correct views on Islam,
LGBTQ+ rights, gun control, capitalism, socialism and/or communism,
First Nations peoples, the Black rights movement, or the equality of men
and women, including universal access to abortion and birth control.
Ludlow was the first chief justice of New Brunswick. It is that fact
which makes him worthy of some recognition in connection with a law
school.
Now, if Ludlow's name was to be used for a building housing an
Indigenous Studies or Black History program, then, yes, that would be
inappropriate. He did not make positive contributions in those areas.
But that doesn't mean we throw out the baby with the bathwater and
refuse to accept that he was a historically-significant jurist.
Most of us Metis are simply not that fragile and easily offended. We
accept that even some of the great men and women of history had views
that are today considered unacceptable. We don't care. We move on.
It's history. We acknowledge it but it does not define us.
Jason McTavish
Reply to @James Risdon: well said
James Risdon
Reply to @Jason McTavish: Well, I had the good fortune of being able to get an education at Concordia University.
It's a university named after word "harmony" in Latin, a language spread
throughout the world by the Roman Catholic church, a religious
institution which undertook to beat back Muslims and attack their
homeland in the centuries-long Crusades during which the church worked
closely with feudal landlords who held their own people in a state of
semi-slavery while they got rich and lived in castles and men regularly
raped women during their battles in foreign lands.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @James
Risdon: I have no more use for that institution than I have for all the
others. And this means NADA. I have nothing but contempt for religion.
James Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: I enjoyed my time at Concordia University in the bustling
city of Montreal and feel I got a pretty good education there. For that,
I am grateful.
I am also grateful to the Roman Catholic church for handing down the
teachings of Jesus, my Lord and Saviour, and for help it has provided
me, a terrible sinner, in becoming a somewhat better human being.
You are certainly entitled to hold whatever views you want on religion.
I, however, maintain that loving one's neighbours, telling the truth,
being grateful for what one has, and generally living a good, decent
life is a worthy goal and the church has been a tremendous help for
multitudes of people all over the world
Larry LeBlanc
Reply to @James
Risdon: Yes it has and a couple come to mind....all the abused children,
the multitudes tortured and killed in the church's name.
Religion has been and is about power and control over people...much like government.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Larry LeBlanc: you got that one right!
David Amos
Reply to @Jason McTavish: I disagree
David Amos
Reply to @James Risdon: Methinks everybody knows that you are pretty full of yourself N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Larry
LeBlanc: Methinks you should ask your buddy Deschamps why I sued
Cardinal Bernard Francis Law in 2002 N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: why ask me? Do tell!
James Risdon
Reply to @Larry LeBlanc: When we love people, we do affect them. That's true.
The many, many schools, hospitals, homeless shelters, and other services
provided by Catholic charities could, I suppose, all be seen by a cynic
as a way of controlling people's lives.
I, though, see them as providing a little girl with an education,
healing a man's broken leg, aiding a woman being exploited by her pimp
in the sex trade, and giving the teenager who runs away from an abusive
home a warm, clean and safe place to stay.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: that pas not their way of thinking at all then.
James Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: What are you saying?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: "was" instead of "pas". French spellcheck.
James Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think the Catholic church built
schools, hospitals, homeless shelters and so forth?
David Amos
Reply to @James Risdon: Methinks its not wise to play dumb for too long N'esy Pas??
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: he does not have to play. All he has to do is act naturally.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @James
Risdon: they did some good, I'll admit. Such as the nuns teaching us
good French grammar under immediate threat of a one yard ruler. I thank
them for it. I learned well.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James Risdon: some people need this drug; the opium of the masses!
James Risdon Reply
to @Marguerite Deschamps: It's not a drug. It's a religion, a belief.
It helps when you're discussing something to know a little bit about it
before attacking it.
By the way, it was Karl Marx, the father of modern-day communism, who said religion is the opiate of the masses.
Given that communist regimes have led to the deaths of millions of
people and caused untold suffering, I'm not sure this is a model worthy
to be emulated or its intellectual underpinnings celebrated. It is a
flawed and dangerous ideology.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James
Risdon: it works very well in Scandavanian countries; consistently
hailed as the best countries to live in the world. Socialists, you will
say. Some say the word is a synonym for communism.
James
Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Are you denying the horrific atrocities and millions of
deaths which resulted from the implementation of communism in Russia and
China?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James
Risdon: not at all. Like religion, Karl Marx's message was misguided and
twisted in order to control the masses.
James
Risdon Reply
to @Marguerite Deschamps: So, the message Karl Marx made about religion
being the opiate of the masses got twisted and you are using it to
justify that you don't like religion?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James
Risdon: throughout history, there have been as many atrocities committed
in the name of religion, if not more, than by the communists of USSR
and China. Just the crusades, the Inquisitions and the warring between
Christians in Europe for centuries just to name a few.
James
Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: So your defense of communism is that more bad things were
done by another much, much larger group of people over a much, much
longer period in history.
It's scary that you think that makes any sort of sense.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James
Risdon: all I am saying is that both were used as propaganda in order to
control the masses. Both were used as evils.
Marguerite Deschamps
And both were ideologies or manifestos (take your pick) written by men and exploited by fanatics, I might add.
David Amos Reply to @James Risdon: Cry me a river
James Risdon Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: I respectfully disagree.
Jason McTavish I
suggest changing the first name of Marguerite deschamps to Margaret.
the reality is that English has the stronger language nowadays. if you
want to know about the Acadian contribution to New Brunswick, you can
always read a textbook.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: then change your name as well. It's either Irish or Scottish.
Jason McTavish
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: the point is that just as I don't have any right to change
your name or suggest that you were name should be changed, you really
don't have the right to suggest changing someone's law school name,
unless you actually went there, or have some commitment to it, If you
did earn the right to talk about that, fine.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: how about if I wanted to attend this law school? It was the
only one in New Nouveau-Brunswick prior to 1978.
Jason McTavish
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: okay, so why didn't you go if you don't mind my asking. You
don't have to answer that if you don't want to. And I apologize if I was
harsh.
Jason McTavish
Reply to @Jason McTavish: I'm pretty sure unb law requires bilingualism.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: Are you sure!
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: but I would bet that bilingualism is a requirement to attend U de M law school!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks that really rots your SANB socks N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: I go barefeet.
Graeme Scott These attempts to ensure that absolutely nobody is offended by anything offend me!
David Amos
Reply to @Graeme Scott: Me Too
Marguerite Deschamps You guys sure have thin skin! Come on; you are tougher than that!
Jason McTavish There's a trend toward erasing history and pretending the past didn't happen. It's not the answer.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: history remains, but the names are erased from the buildings!
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: doesn't work that way. And unless you either did the hard
work of studying there, graduated, or, you teach there, it's really hard
to see why somehow you think that you have the right even to suggest
changing the name. why don't we all suggest changing your name. English,
after all, is the dominant language, whether you like it or not. How
about changing your first name to Margaret? We can consult a textbook if
we want to know about the French and Acadian commitment to New
Brunswick.
David Amos
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: Methinks it was rather comical all the nonsense around Sir
John A. MacDonald's statue in BC Hence it was only a matter time New
Brunswick would be subject to more of the same N'esy Pas?
Marguerite
Deschamps
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: John, the drunk, you mean.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: John the pickle, you mean.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks even you must find it comical that your last comment
within this thread did not stand the test of time like so many others
of ours N'esy Pas?
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: if not comical, certainly amusing!
Jason McTavish British
Columbia at one point had a lot of discrimination toward Canadians of
Asian and especially Chinese. This means that the name of the University
of British Columbia should be changed to the University of Pacific
Knowledge.
Alberta has an oil industry and everybody knows that that's bad. This
means that the name of the University of Alberta should be changed to
the University of Edmonton.
David Amos
Reply to @Jason McTavish: NOPE
Jason McTavish Keep the name. Ludlow probably also did a lot of good. And pretending history didn't happen isn't the answer.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: the best way to make amends is to rename the building the "GRAYDON NICHOLAS HALL"!
Jason McTavish
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: why don't you ask the people who attend that law School how
how they feel about it. Not just one person who happens to be in the
article. You obviously don't have any personal stake in the issue. You
never attended there. Really, who are you to say what they should be
named?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: how do you know if I don't have a personal stake there?
Jason McTavish
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: seriously, you're a graduate of the University of New Brunswick law faculty?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: how about you; are you?
Jason McTavish
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: I'm not. Which is part of the reason I don't presume to weigh
in on what someone's law school should be called. Are you?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: "Keep the name. Ludlow probably also did a lot of good. And
pretending history didn't happen isn't the answer." Yes, you did; the
proof is in the pudding!
Jason McTavish
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: erasing history as you propose is exactly the wrong thing to
do. people should be aware of not only the good things, but also the
not-so-good things in the past. Pretending that the past didn't happen
is you propose, isn't the solution. and it is, in my view, very
presumptuous of you, with no stake in the University of New Brunswick
Law school, at least that you will acknowledge, to somehow weigh in on
the issue.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: I have never acknowledged anything of the sort, one way or the other.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: history remains, but the statues go!
Jason McTavish
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: what about a petition to the change your name to Margaret
Deschaps? I'd sign it! English is the stronger language, and it's time
you acknowledged that.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: I see! You now wish to make this a language issue!
Mac Isaac
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: While I have nothing at all against Mr. Nicholas, I think I
must pass on to you, while you're on this "draft Nicholas" bandwagon
that the age old custom for naming of buildings, institutions and the
like, is to have the decency to wait until the namee is actually dead.
Such is not the case, to my knowledge, of the estimable Mr.
Nicholas...on the other hand Ludlow is very much dead and no doubt, you
will be elated at that news...can't harm anybody else. Now, on to other
windmills Ms Deschamps.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason
McTavish: I do acknowledge it. This is why I can speak and write the
English language fluently just as I can the other official language. I
also can get by in Spanish and Italian.
Jason McTavish
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: the point is I don't have the right even to suggest that you
change your name. Your name is your name. You don't have the right to
suggest changing some law school's name, unless you have some interest
in it, like you did the hard work of going there, or you teach there. if
you did, where do, that is one thing, if you did not, then really, who
cares what you think.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: "Keep the name. Ludlow probably also did a lot of good".
You admitted to having never attended this law school, yet your opinion
is that it should keep its name. What gives you the right to voice your
opinion on the subject anymore than me; just because you think you're
English?
Jason McTavish
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: the point is, a couple things. First, I don't really think I
have the right to weigh in, because I never attended the institution, so
I find it amazing that other people think that somehow they have that
right. But second, I also don't think that changing the name and erasing
the past is really the answer to address prior wrongs.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Jason McTavish: BUT YOU DID !!!!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks its time for your nap N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: nope! Time for a good meal!
Dan Lee
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps:
Ahhh 3 lobsters for dinner was excellant.....................they are not full but still good
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Dan Lee: they will fill later in the season. Yum!
David Amos
Reply to @Mac Isaac: Welcome back to the circus
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: here comes the Klown!
Mac Isaac Again
and again we are going to repeatedly see and hear of cases where
someone from a past era has black mark against his/her character based
on present day (as in NOW!) standards and it is, to me, as morally
repugnant as using today's standards as hallmarks for the evils and
wrongs of some past time. It is unconscionable that, as a society, we
continue to allow those who want to say, "Okay, if this guy lived today,
he would be found guilty of crimes against humanity." The problem is,
he didn't/doesn't live today and as much as those crimes, TODAY, would
be judged rightly, as despicable, the fact remains this person obviously
had some merit, in his day, or he would never have become New
Brunswick's Chief Justice.
This is akin to the nonsense found on social media that seeks to rile
the public with, at best, specious arguments using today's laws and
standards in regards to things done 200 years ago. Most laws are not
retroactive for a reason...this is a classic reason!
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Mac Isaac:
yet some advancing this argument will not give any credit to Dominic's
judgeship appointments. By the same reasoning, these persons also
obviously had merit too, eh?
Mack Leigh
Reply to @Mac Isaac:
Well said, however those whose wish is to rewrite history have their own
disgusting agenda and are quite okay with forced social engineering...
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Mack Leigh: and some others will say you have yours.
David Amos
Reply to @Mack Leigh: Methinks everybody has an agenda and I am the only political animal honest enough to admit it N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: I admit it too. Therefore I am honest.
Marguerite Deschamps The "Graydon Nicholas Hall" would look good!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: NOPE
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: YUP!
Murray Brown Fighting
historical ignorance and intolerance by being intolerant is not
sensible. We can't rewrite history, but we can learn from it. And
these attempts to change names and tear down statues of historical
figures for the convenience of a few is foolish nonsense. In the late
18th and early 19th century practically everybody supported or accepted
slavery and attempts during those times to educate indigenous people was
likely considered as a generosity rather than a subjugation of
indigenous culture. History happened. Do not try to erase it, lean from
it.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Murray Brown: more eradicate thn educate, I say!
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Murray
Brown: what better way of learning from history than taking down the
names and statues of these infamous characters.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks revealing the awful truth is the only way to go but
you SANB dudes would never agree with that N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: I cannot speak for la SANB. Ask them.
Terrance Thomasen Karen
McGill, who graduates in October from the law school in Fredericton and
is a member of the Manitoba Metis Federation, said she found it
difficult to have to see the name on her way to class.
Little lady. You are going to be a lawyer. If this persons name is
making life difficult for you, the uphill struggle you face is huge.
David Amos
Reply to @Terrance Thomasen: YUP
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: she should take this advice from the famous lawyer, the self-professed second coming of J. J. Robinette.
Graeme Scott Very
few historical figures of 200+ years ago will survive having their
political and social views examined through the lens of the 21st
century. Are we to eradicate all of our prominent historical leaders who
don't pass the test of 21st century morality and political correctness?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Graeme Scott: then so be it!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks we should study you and the SANB too N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: why me? Like you, I'm harmless.
Marguerite Deschamps That
June 15th, 1816 announcement by that Caleb Jones is nothing to be proud
of. Just wondering if he was related to that infamous former mayor of
Moncton, by any chance?
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks you have your knickers in quite a knot today N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: you sure are calm yourself! Are you on Valiums?
Marguerite Deschamps They should rip that awful name from the building and rename it "Nicholas" Hall.
Ludlow is like the limbo; how low can you go!!!!
Graydon Nicholas CM ONB is an attorney, judge, and politician who served
as the appointed 30th Lieutenant Governor of New Brunswick. He is the
first Aboriginal person to hold the office, the first to be appointed as
a provincial court judge, and the first in Atlantic Canada to obtain a
law degree. - Wikipedia
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks everybody knows why I strongly disagree N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: I have no idea.
David Amos Reply
to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks you and all the liberals and
everybody else in SANB knows he is one of the many lawyers who illegally
barred me from parliamentary properties which why I sued your Queen in
Federal Court while Harper was still the PM and I was running for a seat
in Parliament again N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps Reply to @David Amos: You sued my queen! I have a queen? Are you telling that I am a serf? The horror!
Matt
Steele Well
, if folks are going to start changing names of everything because
someone feels offended ; then they should change the names of the Romeo
LeBlanc International Airport in Moncton ; and the Pierre Elliot Trudeau
International Airport in Montreal . I am deeply offended when I have to
enter those two airports after all the damage that those two people
have done to Canada ; so lets change those names as well .
Marguerite Deschamps Content disabled
Dan Lee
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps:
Now that is a good one.....................wish i could give you 2 plus
Lou Bell
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Another song comin' there Marc uerite / Al Clark ? Sure you
can come up with something else you've been " disadvantaged " with .
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Matt
Steele: thankfully, all these George Ludlow linke-minded thinking people
will soon be gone and New Nouveau-Brunswick will finally be at peace.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Lou Bell: and I thought it was the unilingual Anglophones who are disadvantaged. That's all we read about on here!
Lou Bell
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Naw , it's the Francophones who claim to be so disadvantaged.
Not really sure why they returned , and probably would have been better
if they hadn't. The " what about me and my past " generation is never
ending.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Lou Bell: the proof of who the whiners are on here is manifest and overwhelming.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Lou Bell:
not really sure why you came in the first place as things were much
better before including our rapports with the First Nations.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Lou Bell: we could say the same about you, but alas, you are here and so am I. We now have to make the beat of it.
Marguerite Deschamps
"best".
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Lou Bell:
although you pretend not to like Trump, I see that you think a lot like
him. For you, it would have been better if we never returned and you had
succeeded in eradicating those who were here for time immemorial.
Mack Leigh
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps:
Rapport with the First Nations ? Francophones and Catholics were the
main stake holders and overseers of the Indigenous schools ... Also it
was Cardinal Richelieu who ordered all French in Canada to , and I quote
" Breed the Natives out ".... So if that is rapport ....no thanks.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Mack Leigh:
all Europeans treated these people who were here for time immemorial in
the most abhorrent ways. Maybe we could ask one of them such as the
author of the book: "We Were Not the Savages", by Daniel Paul? I read
the book. He claims that the worst were the Spanish, then the English,
then the French, in that order. Nothing to be proud of by any of them!
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks if you want a true education you should read Ben
Franklin's auto biography and Louis Riel's diary as well It is their
words N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: they too eh?
Dan Lee Another
loyalist with a claim to fame on colored people or my native
ancestors......some people here would rather hide history than show
their shame
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Lee: YUP
Methinks you should go to Havelock and read a rock about the my
Loyalist Forefathers in order to understand how we may be related N'esy
Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: oh that's where the saying "cast" in stone hails from!
Mack Leigh Stop
trying to erase our history.......learn from it and hopefully do not
repeat it.......Use Ludlow as a learning tool while realizing that the "
wrongs " of today were not considered " wrong " in yester year.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Mack Leigh: this awful history will remain. It's this awful name that we want to be ripped off from the building!
Mack Leigh
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps:
Are you going to rip every name off of every building if it is someone
who , in your opinion, has done wrong ? Or will it just be a selective
cleansing ? Are you prepared to have Cardinal Richelieu, the Pope ,
various other religious orders and person's names removed from
everything and anything ? I highly suspect ....not... Just more of your
approved forced social engineering....and it is wrong..in my opinion...
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Mack Leigh:
"Are you prepared to have Cardinal Richelieu, the Pope , various other
religious orders and person's names removed from everything and anything
?" - They would be the first to go.
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks Cardinal Bernard Francis Law's name should live in infamy as well N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: all of them!
James
Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Anti-religious bigotry is a terrible thing.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James
Risdon: I am entitled to my non-beliefs! Liberty of religion includes
not practising any and pointing out their flaws. Too bad if I offend
infantile beliefs in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny!
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @James
Risdon: atheists have rights too, you know! They too have been
persecuted more than their fair share. Author of the "God Delusion",
Richard Dawkins, could not get police protection when he came to give
talk shows in the US.
James
Risdon
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: It's a shame you can't see the difference between being an
atheist and being an anti-religious bigot.
Marguerite
Deschamps Reply
to @James Risdon: it's a shame that a grownup like you still believes
in old myths written thousands of years ago in order to control the
masses, more particularly women.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks that dumb and dumber are still hard at it because
you dudes don't know when to quit flogging a dead horse N'esy Pas?
Marguerite
Deschamps Reply to @David Amos: lord and behold; and we were just waiting for the dumbest to join in!
McKenzie King You
can't change history and you can't blame people for following the laws
of the day many years ago. If you are going to disqualify names for
building, you may be hard pressed to find anyone who hasn't done
something to someone to name a building after. Ms. McGill is not from
NB so if she was so traumatized from seeing the name, she could have
helped ease her pain by transferring to any number of other law schools
anywhere in the country.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @McKenzie
King: well I can tell you that there are some from New Brunswick whose
ancestors suffered under the likes of Ludlow who had no choice but to
attend UNB law school given that it was the only law school in New
Nouveau-Brunswick until U de M in 1978.
David Amos
Reply to @McKenzie King: Methinks its strange that I concur with the dude who shares a famous name I do not respect N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: you do not like liberals, do you?
Steve
Martell They
should rename it after their favorite employee - J. Sorrano. You know,
the guy that UNB helped get off with a slap on the wrist because he was
a "great employee". I guess showing decapitation videos to kids and
threatening a man's life is a-okay to UNB. Same guy was involved in the
YMCA camera in the locker room thing a while ago and is reaaaallly into
domestic violence. But what are you going to do UNB....boys will be
boys
David Amos
Reply to @Steve
Martell: Oh my my Methinks somebody in UNB should sit up and pay
attention to your words but not for your benefit N'esy Pas?
David Sampson Karen’s
comment that she is traumatized every time she enters the building with
Ludlow’s name on it is suggestive of a condition that she really needs
to seek treatment for.
We must stop rewriting our history. For good, or bad, it’s our history and ought to be used to educate not silence.
David Amos
Reply to @David Sampson: I disagree
Thomas Imber Rename Ludlow Hall and my donations to UNB will end, along with many others I suspect.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Thomas Imber: as they say, $$$$$money talks!
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Thomas Imber: there's always the U de M law school that you can donate to, le pavillon Adrien J. Cormier!
Lou Bell
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: U de M Not really a Law School , more like a prep school for the SANB Liberals .
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Lou Bell, next on the list; a name change from New Nouveau-Brunswick to l'Acadie Acadia!
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Bernard Lord is a CONservative. He went to U de M, as did J. P. Barry,
NHL player agent, Michael Murphy, a prominent lawyer and many more.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks you should say hey to Mikey and Brian Murphy for me N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: why don't you do it? - You are more susceptible to cross path with them than I am.
UNB law students call for Ludlow Hall name change because of slavery link
Building was named for Loyalist with connections to slavery, residential schools
Jordan Gill · CBC News · Posted: Oct 10, 2019 6:30 AM AT
UNB Law Students’ Society wants George Duncan Ludlow's name removed from the law faculty building 'without delay.' (Joe MacDonald/CBC)
Law students at the University of New Brunswick are officially
asking that George Duncan Ludlow's name be removed from the law faculty
building.
The UNB Law Students' Society passed a resolution
asking the name be removed "without delay" from Ludlow Hall on the
Fredericton campus.
Molly Murphy, president of the society,
said law students drafted a document that laid out why the name is
problematic, and the resolution passed at the annual general meeting.
"The feedback at the forum was unanimous in support of removal of the name," said Murphy.
Ludlow has been called 'the leading judicial partisan of slavery in New Brunswick.' (archive.org)
Karen McGill, who graduates in October from the law school, has been vocal in her opposition to the building's name.
"I'm
really, truly proud of the Law Students' Society for first, listening
to the concerns of students such as myself and secondly, transforming
those concerns into action through their advocacy," McGill said.
"I think that's tremendous that the law student body did that collectively."
Ludlow was the province's first chief justice and was instrumental in crafting some of the colony's first statutes.
However,
he was also alleged to have owned slaves. He ruled in favour of slavery
in New Brunswick and participated in a precursor to residential schools
for Indigenous children.
Writing
in a 1995 issue of the UNB Law Journal, historian Barry Cahill called
Ludlow "the leading judicial partisan of slavery in New Brunswick."
Students considering the issue were 'unanimous in support of removal of the name,' said Molly Murphy, president of the society. (Joe MacDonald/CBC)
Murphy said she has not received a university response to the resolution.
In
an emailed statement to CBC News, UNB president and vice-chancellor
Paul Mazerolle confirmed the university has received the society's
request.
UNB to look at naming conventions
"As a
post-secondary institution committed to equity, diversity and inclusion,
I and other members of UNB administration are considering our next
steps in relation to naming conventions for UNB buildings," said
Mazerolle.
Murphy said the society is not suggesting an alternative name for Ludlow Hall because it doesn't want to complicate its request.
The UNB
Law Students' Society is calling on the university to change the name
of Ludlow Hall. The law building was named after George Ludlow, who may
have owned slaves, ruled in favour of slavery and participated in a
precursor to residential schools. 0:50
"We are not going to muddy the conversation with suggestions
for new names at this time because we want the university to know that
we are serious about removing this name … there should be nothing that
slows this process," she said.
McGill, who is a member of the
Manitoba Metis Federation, has an idea. She is suggesting naming the
building after the Wolastoqey name for the St. John River, Wolastoq.
"The river is a source of knowledge and has informed our entire history throughout time," she said.
"You
know it's our lifeblood, it's who we are, it's all of us. And a very
powerful symbol of our collective heritage and focal point for
reclamation and reconciliation."
53 Comments Commenting is now closed for this story.
Harold
Dolan Full disclosure, I attended Law School at UNB so long ago I seem to remember horse drawn carriages. I digress ...
I am also of mixed ancestral heritage, 50/50 Irish and Acadian, so my
ancestral loyalties if such a thing exists, don't lay with loyalists and
their influence/actions in NB, my former home.
Putting all that aside, I was wondering who chose the name and went in
the direction of some further research, as I was dutifully taught at UNB
Law to do, starting and stopping at the UNB Law site and found this:
"As with other UNB buildings dating from the 1960s, Ludlow Hall was
named for a New Brunswick historical figure – in this case one of the
province’s Loyalist “founders”. Before the American Revolution, George
Ludlow (1734-1808) was a judge of the New York Supreme Court. In his New
Brunswick exile he served for 24 years as the province’s first chief
justice. Informally he was called its “prime minister”, reflecting his
central role in drafting the colony’s initial statutes.
As UNB’s very first Law student was of Black Loyalist descent [see
Abraham Walker], it can seem ironic that Chief Justice Ludlow is
best-known nowadays for holding that slavery in New Brunswick was lawful
even in the absence of a statute legalizing it. On two occasions (1799,
1805) lawyers brought the general question of slavery before the New
Brunswick Supreme Court. In both cases Ludlow was among the judges
holding slavery lawful, though other judges disagreed. When
abolitionists then stopped arguing the unlawfulness of slavery as a
principle and began basing their case on legal technicalities (1806),
Chief Justice Ludlow co-operated with them in defeating the master’s
claim."
Matt
Reinhart
Reply to @Harold
Dolan: Thank you Mr. Dolan. You make a very cogent argument for
maintaining the status quo. Law is a "science" of nuances, which makes
the study of law so compelling. I still, in my senior years, wish I had
joined some of my friends and studied it...at Ludlow Hall! I think it's
important for there to be divergent views on this subject because
racism and political correctness are both very much part of the current
social dialogue we're having. Thank you, sir, for giving us one of those
views which is divergent from those of this current student. If she
ever becomes a judge I hope she'll keep in mind that her views might not
be the same as those of the rest of society. Was Mr. Ludlow actually a
racist or was he actually simply a judicial theoretician practising his
craft? It's been said that a good lawyer should be able to argue both
sides of case with equal conviction...
Mac Isaac
Reply to @Harold
Dolan: So you "rest your case" without any reference to Ludlow's
involvement with residential schools, and his support for removing
Indigenous children from their parents?
Barry
Odonnell
Reply to @Matt
Reinhart: It is ludicrous. I compare it to the people running around
spray painting statues of Sir John A. MacDonald because he was involved
in the residential schools, totally ignoring the fact that the man was
the founder of our country and a great Prime Minister. Whiny lefties.
Mac Isaac
Reply to @Barry
Odonnell: In FACT, your statement is quite and very wrong in one
respect. "lefties" as a voice, do not unanimously support such a move.
In FACT, Mr. Odonell, it isn't "lefties" that want this; rather it is
revisionist twits that want to write yesteryears history through the
prism of their 20th-21st century eyes...NOTHING at all to do with their
being "lefties". Those of us who are on the left and those of you who
are on the right would do well to remember that not all issues are
"left" or "right". (see my comment above)
Steve Gordon If
UNB follows through with this stupid request I will no longer be proud
to say I am a UNB alumni and they can kiss any future donations from me
goodbye.
Matt
Steele It
is very doubtful that the great majority of these students could care
less about the name of Ludlow Hall one way or another ; but have jumped
on the anti Ludlow band wagon because of peer pressure where a few
control the many . It is only a name , it is time for these students to
grow up from their sheltered lives , and get over it . Changing a name
on a building accomplishes NOTHING !
Colin Seeley
Reply to @Matt Steele:
Let’s all change our names.
We could start with a name like Molly which comes from the Hebrew origin.
In Hebrew The meaning of the name Molly is: Diminutive of Mary: Wished-for child; rebellion; bitter.
Marc Bourque
Reply to @Matt
Steele: The same goes for calling out the politicians.People have been
whipped into submission and are afraid to speak up less we get the wrath
of the left..its all peer pressure by society..
Harold Wood Here
we go again, let's erase history. Right or wrong this seems to be the
trend today but denial does not eliminate history. The article seems to
indicate this man did some good for the country and slavery was common
worldwide.Over the years fortunately this practice has been abandoned in
most countries. Too bad these future legislators are not as quick to
come forth protesting the failures of our present day politicians who
are adept at covering up corruption and ethics breaches etc.
Mack Leigh
Reply to @Harold Wood:
Well said !! Ludlow was a man of the era however overall he achieved many positives for NB and Canada as a whole.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Harold
Wood: Corruption is not something new. Haven't you heard of the golden
rule? The one with the gold makes the rules.
HMMM Where have I read that rule before???
Oh Yea I posted it within CBC countless times
UNB law school urged to shed name linked to slavery, residential school
Ludlow Hall named after judge who supported slavery and keeping Indigenous children away from families
UNB law's faculty building is named after George Duncan Ludlow, the province's first chief justice and a defender of slavery. (Google Maps)
The name Ludlow Hall, spread in bold
letters over the entrance to the University of New Brunswick law school,
is an unsettling, hurtful sight for some students who have to see it
every day.
George Duncan Ludlow, a Loyalist and the first chief
justice of New Brunswick, sided with slave owners in the colony and also
supported an early residential school for Indigenous children.
Karen
McGill, who graduates in October from the law school in Fredericton and
is a member of the Manitoba Metis Federation, said she found it
difficult to have to see the name on her way to class.
"It's right there," she said. "You have to walk underneath his name, you know, to come into the building.
"I'm
taught that my ancestors walk with me, and I wondered, 'Do they walk
into a building that honours, you know, someone like Ludlow?'"
'Partisan of slavery'
McGill wants the name of the building changed.
The first problematic part of Ludlow's history is his relation to slavery.
There
had been slaves in the region since the first French settlers. After
the American Revolution, many black people travelled to the Maritimes,
including some who were free and some who were slaves.
Historians
are divided over whether Ludlow himself owned slaves. Records at the
time the Loyalists arrived in New Brunswick in the early 1780s aren't
reliable. On the logs for ships that brought Loyalists north, for
instance, slaves could have been listed as "servants."
Writing
in a 1995 issue of the UNB Law Journal, historian Barry Cahill said
Ludlow's brother was a slave owner, as many of the Loyalists from New
York were, including Ludlow, "the leading judicial partisan of slavery
in New Brunswick."
Ludlow was called 'the leading judicial partisan of slavery in New Brunswick' by historian Barry Cahill. (archive.org)
In
Ludlow's day, New Brunswick had no law regarding slavery, either
banning it or permitting it, and it was essentially a legal grey area.
In 1800, the Supreme Court of New Brunswick had a chance to outlaw slavery but instead allowed it to carry on.
The
case involved Caleb Jones, who had come to the colony via Maryland,
bringing slaves with him. He petitioned the court to have one of his
slaves, known as both Ann and Nancy and living away from his property,
returned to him.
In a split decision after a two-day trial, Ludlow sided with the slave owner.
The effect of the four-man court's decision was to send Nancy, who had been ordered to appear for the hearing, back to Jones.
Residential schools
Earlier, Ludlow had sat on the board of a precursor of residential schools.
In
the mid-1790s, a day school for Indigenous children opened in Sussex
Vale, near Sussex. While children did not live at the school, they were
not allowed to live with their parents either, according to historian
Judith Fingard.
Instead, the children were expected to live with
white "apprentice families," where they could learn a trade if they
were boys or housekeeping if they were girls.
An
early form of residential school was opened in Sussex Vale, now Sussex
Corner, in the mid-1790s. Ludlow was an ardent supporter. (CBC)
The
idea was that the children would become an example to other Indigenous
people and inspire them to give up their traditional way of life.
Ludlow
was such a supporter of the scheme that he resigned in impatience when,
15 years after the school started, children were still being allowed to
return at night to their parents.
When
McGill started at the UNB law school in 2016, she was aware of Ludlow's
connection to slavery, she said. That was enough for her to want the
building renamed.
When she learned of his connection to the Sussex Vale school, she became even more convinced of the need for change.
On
its website, the law school acknowledges Ludlow's role in the 1800
slavery case but not his alleged ownership of slaves or his connection
to an early residential school.
McGill, who only recently felt
comfortable about speaking out on the issue, said the university knows
enough about Ludlow to know what a problem his history is for students.
"It says to me that the university doesn't care about history and about truth and about reconciliation," she said.
"It made me feel very unwelcome."
Why Ludlow?
McGill said Ludlow has little actual connection to the university anyway.
In fact, the connection only goes back 51 years.
The
law school was originally called the King's College law school and was
only integrated into the university in 1923. It was located in Saint
John until it was moved to Fredericton in 1959, at first into Somerville
House on Waterloo Row.
Ludlow Hall didn't open on the UNB
campus until Oct. 7, 1968. It's unclear when Ludlow's link to slavery
became common knowledge, but it wasn't mentioned in the Daily Gleaner
article covering the opening of the building.
McGill said Ludlow's story and his tenuous relationship with the university make UNB's lack of action surprising.
An ad printed in a New Brunswick newspaper in 1816 offers a $12 reward to anyone catching an escaped slave. (Sylvia D. Hamilton/Excavation: Memory Work exhibition)
"His
accomplishments are just no longer that impressive, and then when you
add in the truth of his furtherance of slavery, genocide and basically
human trafficking, you know, a much darker picture emerges," she said.
"I definitely want every law student and lawyer in this province to know about George Duncan Ludlow, but not to look up to him."
In
a statement to CBC News, the university's Law Students Society said it
was aware the Ludlow name was a concern among students but stopped short
of calling for a change. Instead, the society called for a conversation
about the issue.
'An opportunity'
"There is
opportunity now to discuss the ugliness of George Ludlow's history — a
history which does not serve to represent rights and interests of
current students," said Molly Murphy, president of the society.
"As
the student body becomes increasingly diverse, the administration
should be ready to respond appropriately to suggestions and proposals
for change."
CBC News sought an interview with someone from the UNB administration but no one was made available.
But
in an email statement, law dean John Kleefeld acknowledged society is
becoming more aware of "our colonial past" and suggested a change might
be considered.
"UNB is also open to acknowledge New Brunswick's
colonial history, and its current administration has expressed a
willingness to hear recommendations from the faculty of law on the law
school's name," said Kleefeld.
