N.B. Power's former president presided over successful financial year before firing
Utility reported its highest profit in 10 years under Cronkhite days before he was sacked
According to financial statements submitted to the province last week and signed by Cronkhite in June, just 18 days before his termination, N.B. Power posted net earnings for the fiscal year ended in March of $80 million.
It's the highest profit at the utility since March 2012, and it beat the net income target set by N.B. Power's board of directors by $6.3 million. It's the first time N.B. Power has met or exceeded a profit target in seven years.
No one from the utility was immediately available to speak about the financial results on Wednesday, according to spokesperson Marc Belliveau.
Cronkhite was fired suddenly on July 4, a little more than two years after being appointed N.B. Power's president. N.B. Power Board Chair Charles Firlotte said the utility needed "transformational change," and Cronkhite was not the one to make it happen.
When
Cronkhite was fired, N.B. Power board chair Charles Firlotte said the
utility needed new leadership to make a transformational change. (CBC)
"The board has concluded we must embark on a significant transformation of the organization," Firlotte said at the time in a statement.
Improved results under Cronkhite last year appear to be partly due to a surge in electricity sales, including a more than 50 per cent increase in export sales. There were also substantial gains made on company investments and other financial instruments N.B. Power holds to both balance the price of commodities it buys and to save for various generating station retirements.
According to the 63-page financial report, electricity sales, transmission revenues and other income streams jumped $364 million (19.8 per cent) over last year to a record $2.2 billion with operational expenses to support those sales rising $235 million.
Part of the rise in revenue was fuelled by a 1.9 per cent rate increase N.B. Power began charging on March 31, 2021, but most was the result of rising demand for power both at home and outside the province as economies emerged from COVID-19 slowdowns.
Sales to business customers, including large industrial customers in New Brunswick were up 11.9 per cent over the previous year, with sales to residential consumers climbing 4.8 per cent. Sales to out-of-province customers totalled $558 million, a 51.6 per cent improvement over the previous year.
A
surge in electricity sales inside and outside New Brunswick helped N.B.
Power to its best financial result in a decade last year. Sales to
business customers, including industrial plants in New Brunswick were up
11.9 per cent. (Robert Jones/CBC)
In at least one sour note, net debt at the utility climbed during the year by $9 million, but that was overwhelmed by a surprising $399 million increase in equity driven mostly by N.B. Power's substantial gains on investments.
That more than doubled the level of equity in N.B. Power's capital structure from 6 per cent to 13 per cent in one year, a major move toward government requirements N.B. Power reach a more solvent equity level of 20 per cent by 2027.
Belliveau said more detailed information on N.B. Power's financial year will be made available in two weeks with the release of the crown corporation's annual report.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-lepreau-maintenance-1.6520978
Problem maintenance outage at Lepreau nuclear plant adds to N.B. Power money troubles
Costly spring shutdown of Point Lepreau nears day 100
N.B. Power expects Lepreau will be back in service sometime next week after what has turned into a 100-day outage, but with key work left unfinished. This work will require additional downtime next spring to fully complete.
According to N.B. Power communications officer Dominique Couture, supply and personnel shortages and more significant problems with station equipment than anticipated have all undermined the plant's quick return to service.
"Some of the challenges experienced included supply chain issues impacting parts delivery and skilled labour availability," wrote Couture in an email to CBC News.
"As well as with any planned maintenance that involves testing and inspecting equipment, it is difficult to precisely project outage duration until you have taken the plant offline and opened the systems and equipment up for further inspection."
The
Point Lepreau nuclear generating station has been offline 8,000 hours
more than expected during the last 10 years because of breakdowns and
serious maintenance issues. (Submitted by NB Power)
Point Lepreau is N.B. Power's most important generating station, but its reliability has been a frustration since it emerged from a 4½-year, $2.4-billion refurbishment in late 2012.
In its annual reports, N.B. Power claims unscheduled outages at the nuclear plant cost the utility's bottom line between $28,500 and $45,700 per hour depending on the time of year and market conditions, plus the cost of required repairs.
According to filings with the New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board, Lepreau has experienced 8,000 more hours of downtime than projected since 2012, not including the current outage.
That has been a major factor in N.B. Power missing corporate profit targets for the last six years in a row and failing to execute on plans to reduce its debt load.
N.B.
Power has failed to hit its profit targets for six straight years,
including the last two years when it posted losses. Its financial
results from the latest fiscal year ended in March are expected any day.
(Mike Heenan/CBC News file photo)
In a third-quarter financial update released in February, N.B. Power reported its net debt hit $4.97 billion on December 31, 2021. That's $40 million higher than last year and $810 million above levels it had projected for itself just six years ago.
"If we think about what have been the primary drivers that have led to subpar performance or not meeting targets in the last number of years, we can point to a number of important components [including] Point Lepreau's performance coming out of the refurbishment," N.B. Power vice-president of finance Darren Murphy said in 2020.
"We have talked about that on a number of occasions the fact that unfortunately it did not perform as we would have liked coming out of refurbishment."
N.B. Power plans spring maintenance shutdowns at Lepreau every other year to try to keep the station in top condition, but aims to keep those events short and focused.
In
February, New Brunswick Auditor General Paul Martin reported his office
is concerned about N.B. Power's debt and finances and the utility's
ability to 'self-sustain its operations over the long term.' (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
The utility does not hesitate to approve large amounts of overtime for employees when it comes to getting the nuclear plant back in service as quickly as possible, Diane Fraser, N.B. Power's director of financial planning, explained at rate hearings in 2020.
"One of the main drivers for the increase in overtime has been associated with outage projects," Fraser said.
"Getting Point Lepreau back online is top priority because of the value that it adds to the overall state of the financials."
This year's spring outage was originally planned for 60 days. It began on April 9, but is already at day 98 with some significant work still not complete.
Plans now are to get Lepreau back in service next week and then shut it down again next April for another 22 days to deal with the unfinished work.
"A major equipment replacement scheduled for the 2022 outage was delayed due to supply chain issues, which required us to plan a short outage for 2023 to ensure predictable, reliable station operations going forward," wrote Couture.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
Methinks
its high time folks thank Dr. Roger Richard who has been
working very diligently and at great expense before the EUB defending our interests against NB
Power's nonsense N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/07/nb-power-finances-suffered-657m-hit-in.html
#nbpoli #cdnpoli
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-earning-report-covid-19-1.5654175
NB Power finances suffered $65.7M hit in March from COVID-19
Utility missed earnings target for 5th straight year after markets tumbled days before its fiscal year ended
· CBC News · Posted: Jul 17, 2020 5:59 PM AT
NB Power's loss of $16 million in its latest fiscal year is the fifth year in a row the utility has seen its earnings fall below expectations. (CBC)
NB Power is reporting it lost $16 million in its latest fiscal year, a victim of the COVID-19 economic meltdown in March that ravaged its finances in a matter of days.
The utility had told the province to expect a $49.7-million profit for the fiscal year ending on March 31 — a figure New Brunswick Finance Minister Ernie Steeves used in his March 10 budget — but 21 days later, $65.7 million had evaporated and NB Power's accounts suddenly tumbled into the red.
"It was the instability of the financial markets in February and March 2020, largely as a result of the pandemic, that drove this reduction," said new NB Power president Keith Cronkhite in a statement in the utility's annual report released Friday.
Cronkhite was only named president on March 30, succeeding former president Gaëtan Thomas one day before the fiscal year ended.
Finance Minister Ernie Steeves announced on March 10 the province was headed for a $97.7-million budget surplus for the fiscal year ended March 31, but that depended on NB Power turning a $49.7-million profit. The utility's $16-million loss will show up when Steeves issues final financial statements later this summer. (Mike Heenan/CBC)
NB Power chair Ed Barrett was philosophical about the unfortunate turn of events in his own statement.
"It is remarkable that what we may remember most about 2019/20 are the events that surfaced just as NB Power's fiscal year was drawing to a close."
It's the fifth year in a row NB Power has failed to meet its earnings target although the problem this time was financial, not operational.
The money is managed by Vestcor, the Fredericton investment entity that handles New Brunswick government employee pension funds, and a steep collapse in global financial markets that began in late February was behind most of NB Power's losses, according to the account in its annual report.
NB Power's loss was caused by a March meltdown in financial markets, not operational problems, as its nuclear decommissioning investments were hammered. (Richard Drew/The Associated Press)
"The instability of the financial markets largely as a result of the global COVID-19 pandemic, led to a significant decrease in the gains on the investments year-over-year and was the primary driver of this unfavourable variance."
No one from the utility was made available to speak about the financial results Friday, but the loss will have a significant impact on New Brunswick's own fiscal year financial results which will be reported later this summer.
The province had projected a $97.7-million budget surplus for the year ended March 31, 2020, but the setback at NB Power will spill onto its books and erase two thirds of that.
A budget surplus the province had been projecting for 2021 has already been downgraded to a $343-million deficit.
About the Author
46 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Amos
Content disabled
Methinks everybody knows why KPMG and I are not surprised N'esy Pas?
David Peters
Do you think it's a good idea to have a secretive 'board' controlling huge swathes of NB's economy, like the eub does?
Don't forget that they oversee the transportation industry as well.
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: Do you think it's a good idea to have a secretive 'board' controlling huge swathes of NB's economy, like the eub does?
Don't forget that they oversee the transportation industry as well.
David Amos
Content disabled
Cronkhite
was only named president on March 30, succeeding former president
Gaëtan Thomas one day before the fiscal year ended."
Methinks Higgy et al forgot to inform folks that one of the last things
Gaëtan Thomas did was write a letter to the EUB in order to beg them not
to come to a decision about NB Power's second bid for Not So Smart
Meters anytime soon Now you know why N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Peters: Why do you think they keep barring me from intervening?
Roger Richard
Content disabled
Reply to @David
Peters: You are free to participate in the process as well as anyone
else in NB. It is important to take care of our business.
David Amos
Content disabled
Methinks
its high time that folks thank my friend Roger Richard who has been
working very diligently and spending a lot of his own money for nearly 3
years appearing before the EUB defending our interests against NB
Power's nonsense N'esy Pas?
Roger
Richard
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos:
I may add, if you permit Mr. Amos, that if the people of NB do not
smarten-up very fast we will lose NB Power to the Americans. The cards
are all lined-up in that regard.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Roger
Richard: Methinks Emera would love to buy NB Power just like they did
with Nova Scotia Power years ago. If they so no doubt the rates would
go through the roof N'esy Pas?
Roger
Richard
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: Right now Emera is asking for TOU rates in Nova Scotia.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Roger
Richard: They use Not So Smart Meters to accomplish that feat Methinks
that the same meter that raises the bills even when folks are not using
any power whatsoever N'esy Pas?
Roger
Richard
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: Yes, in several publications.
Fred Dee
how
many employees were PAID to stay home and not work?? How many are still
getting this FULL pay with benefits for staying home and doing
nothing!!???
Here is a way that $$ should have been saved!!
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Fred Dee: Methinks that nonsense went on throughout GNB N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell
Love these people stating " Tesla stocks are up " or " Gold is up " ! Did THEY put all their money in either ? Quit lookin' back at your MISSED OPPORTUNITIES and intimating it's only others that missed them !
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Late last year my son used some of his gold to buy a Tesla before the
markets took a nosedive Does that count?
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Lou Bell:
As a matter of fact I did invest in Tesla but I bought it even earlier
so my return is 6X. But I am not a professional investor like Vestcor.
What do I know? Yet NB Power blames Vestcor for their losses.
Ben
Haroldson
Content disabled
I'll bet the executive bonuses didn't take a hit, in fact they were probably topped up by the feds.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Ben
Haroldson: Methinks the Feds take a wide berth of NB Power particularly
after Harper sold our Nuke assets to SNC Lavelin then Trudeau got in hot
water N'esy Pas?
Corrie Weatherfield
"LOSS" only occurs in an investment account when you sell at a lower price than the price at which you bought . . . how does this show up as a "loss" ? If a $700 million investment account waiting to be used some years in the future goes down in market value, what sort of accountant records that as a loss in the current year? Let us not expect an answer . . . the sort of accountants that manage the finances of NBPower and of the govt have proven themselves many times to be better with words than with numbers.
Ben Haroldson
Content disabled
Reply to @Corrie Weatherfield: And there is no way that can happen with a " crown " NPO.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Corrie
Weatherfield: Methinks you should work that out with KPMG because we pay
them to check NB Power's books N'esy Pas?
Terry Tibbs
Buckle up buttercups, we have been publicly given "the BIG excuse", for a total and thorough hosing.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Methinks Cardy has stocked up on butter tarts before there is a run on them N'esy Pas?
janice small
Wheres Kevin Cormier when you need him ????
Fred Brewer
Reply to @janice small: LOL
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @janice small: He is busy lugging Cardy's butter tarts to the backroom
Carroll Cameron
This
shortfall is rather easy to overcome for now and the future, and quell
the resident whiners n detractors of the power commision that live on
CBC forums, and that is remove the EUB and leave the power commision
alone. Allow it to turn a profit by charging the people of NB what the
real cost of power is. Then they'll have the money to make a real dent
in their accumulated debt as the years go by.
Sounds like a good plan to get the comm. into the black. It should
satisfy everyone that craves the comm turning a profit and it.....Oh
Wait!
David Peters
Reply to @Carroll Cameron:
How can we possibly know what the real cost of energy is, with the way this sector has been regulated and monopolized?
David Peters
Reply to @Carroll Cameron:
Seems like you are begrudging citizens ability to voice their opinions on this vital file.
Is that why the eub meetings timings and locations are kept secret?
Seems like you are begrudging citizens ability to voice their opinions on this vital file.
Is that why the eub meetings timings and locations are kept secret?
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Carroll Cameron:
While in principle, I like the idea of trustworthy folks being given free reign to properly operate NB power, the reality is that "trustworthy" does not exist within the confines of NB Power.
While in principle, I like the idea of trustworthy folks being given free reign to properly operate NB power, the reality is that "trustworthy" does not exist within the confines of NB Power.
Fred Brewer
Reply to @David
Peters: We have had this conversation before. EUB hearings are all
public and you can register to speak at hearings if you wish. Currently
due to covid not much is happening and they are or were pretty much shut
down. Hearings are advertised in the newspaper and on their website.
David
Peters
Reply to @Fred Brewer:
Can you answer when and where the last eub meeting was, and provide a link to your source? Because, you didn't the last time I asked you this...
Can you answer when and where the last eub meeting was, and provide a link to your source? Because, you didn't the last time I asked you this...
David Peters
Reply to @Fred Brewer:
-sound of crickets-
There is no reasonable justification for manipulating sectors, like the way the eub does, imo. Would be much more beneficial for the vast majority of New Brunwickers if the marketplace set commodity prices and the consumer picked winners and losers in the business world.
-sound of crickets-
There is no reasonable justification for manipulating sectors, like the way the eub does, imo. Would be much more beneficial for the vast majority of New Brunwickers if the marketplace set commodity prices and the consumer picked winners and losers in the business world.
Carroll Cameron
Reply to @David Peters:
You say I'm begrudging the citizens their voice, but, that wasnt my intention although I can see how one could come to that conclusion.
A few of the voices are always vindictive and the rest issue nothing positive or constructive. All I did was offer one way to eliminate the power comm thorn in their what ever part of their body they choose
Maybe I should've included that the power comm should be sold outright into private hands that absolutely need to make a profit. Wouldn't matter what citizens said then, about the cost of their electricity. The gov(we) would have no control over them either and, but, they wouldnt be a burden on the prov's bottom line either.
You say I'm begrudging the citizens their voice, but, that wasnt my intention although I can see how one could come to that conclusion.
A few of the voices are always vindictive and the rest issue nothing positive or constructive. All I did was offer one way to eliminate the power comm thorn in their what ever part of their body they choose
Maybe I should've included that the power comm should be sold outright into private hands that absolutely need to make a profit. Wouldn't matter what citizens said then, about the cost of their electricity. The gov(we) would have no control over them either and, but, they wouldnt be a burden on the prov's bottom line either.
Carroll Cameron
Reply to @Terry Tibbs:
I disagree with you Terry. You're painting everyone with the same brush and that is just wrong.
Maybe you should've defined what group you are referring to b/c it sounds as if you're including the power comm middle and frontline workers.
I disagree with you Terry. You're painting everyone with the same brush and that is just wrong.
Maybe you should've defined what group you are referring to b/c it sounds as if you're including the power comm middle and frontline workers.
Carroll Cameron
Reply to @David Peters:
I dont actually know David, but, I think we could start to get an idea if the EUB was removed and the other option I added to a reply to you below.
I dont actually know David, but, I think we could start to get an idea if the EUB was removed and the other option I added to a reply to you below.
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Carroll Cameron:
As of late NB Power has not missed one single opportunity to disappoint.
Anyone with investments took a financial hit, be it investments in stocks and bonds, or a simple bank balance. Thinking they are "special", this simple story is fair warning of upcoming rate increases by these "honest" people.
As of late NB Power has not missed one single opportunity to disappoint.
Anyone with investments took a financial hit, be it investments in stocks and bonds, or a simple bank balance. Thinking they are "special", this simple story is fair warning of upcoming rate increases by these "honest" people.
David Peters
Reply to @Carroll Cameron:
They say the answer to bad speech is more speech, but on this file there is virtually no public discussion...and on the transportation file, there is absolutely no discussion...no sound at all, like the void of space.
These sectors are keystones to NB's economy and they are way, way over-regulated and monopolized. There needs to be transparency and accountability, imo. Freer markets tend to roar back quickly...to most everyone's benefit.
They say the answer to bad speech is more speech, but on this file there is virtually no public discussion...and on the transportation file, there is absolutely no discussion...no sound at all, like the void of space.
These sectors are keystones to NB's economy and they are way, way over-regulated and monopolized. There needs to be transparency and accountability, imo. Freer markets tend to roar back quickly...to most everyone's benefit.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: Methinks the upside of this is that the EUB will likely deny for
the second time NB Power's bid to borrow over 100 million loonies for
Not So Smart Meters N'esy Pas?
Fred Brewer
Reply to @David
Peters: As I recall, commenting was closed before I could answer your
question. It looks like Jan 13 of this year was likely the last hearing.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meters-eub-hearings-1.5425284
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meters-eub-hearings-1.5425284
Fred Brewer
NB
Power's investment losses began in February. Well, if they had
invested in Tesla on Jan 31, they would have more than doubled their
money. The future is in electric vehicles and renewable energy but none
are so blind as those who do not want to see.
David Peters
Reply to @Fred Brewer:
This file gets uglier the closer you look at it.
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Fred Brewer:
Gold is up a SOLID 25% since November.
Gold is up a SOLID 25% since November.
David Peters
Reply to @Terry Tibbs:
That's because Trudeau is printing $ out of thin air like crazy.
That's because Trudeau is printing $ out of thin air like crazy.
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Peters:
It's a double gamble, gambling on the value of the Canadian dollar, and gambling our oil based economy collapses.
It's a double gamble, gambling on the value of the Canadian dollar, and gambling our oil based economy collapses.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: I told ya it would correct?
Bill Henry
"It was the instability of the financial markets in February and March 2020“ wait, what? So it is a paper loss on an investment that is not expected to be used until years from now?
Corrie Weatherfield
Reply to @Bill Henry: agree. not a "loss" unless they sell . . . says a lot about the method of "accounting"
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Corrie Weatherfield: They count it when the value goes up correct?
David Peters
Imo,
it's a huge mistake to allow a monopoly on such a vital sector. The
lack of transparency and accountability helps keep the economy killing
fiasco going.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Peters:Methinks the huge mistake is believing anything the KPMG crooks have to say about anything N'esy Pas?
David News
So once again Vestcor
is behind losses and or questionable investment returns with public
funds. It is amazing that a 700mm investment fund could within 60 days
lose more than $67mm while following standard investment management best
practices. Something is fishy here.
Terry
Tibbs
Reply to @David News:
The only thing "fishy" here is gambling with money that does not belong to you and losing.
The only thing "fishy" here is gambling with money that does not belong to you and losing.
David News
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: Lol Terry I suspect there is more to it than that.Even with the
market crashing in Feb/March, these purported losses imply a few things.
1, they were already losing money and are using Covid-19 as a
scapegoat.2, The risk management tools deployed by Vestcor are
ineffective or 3, The Investment managers are incompetent.
There is no reason to realize such a significant investment loss unless .....
There is no reason to realize such a significant investment loss unless .....
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Terry
Tibbs Amen
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @David News: Methinks KPMG knows you just scored a hat trick N'esy Pas?
Dave
Corbin
NB power might need
to spend another $14 million for further research into generating zero
carbon emission power from salt water. Be a world leader.
Ray Oliver
Reply to @Dave
Corbin: Whatever the million dollar total flop handout it better score
the new CEO a seat at the board room. Thomas sure was a visionary it's a
shame to see him go....
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Ray Oliver:
Yes, without Thomas we never would have had Joi Magic Beans. Just
imagine the damage he could wreak from the boardroom.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Is that your idea off witty?
Ferdinand Boudreau
Sometime the Covid - 19 is just an excuse-- you use the power pay the bill. I jst can see this one BS
Content disabled
Reply to @Ferdinand Boudreau: Yup
Alison Jackson
Well yeah,lol. 70% of Businesses were shut down for months. What do you expect?
Listen. The entire globe is going to financially reel from this unless the banks forgive everything they are gouging off of. These are the wealthiest human beings on the planet. Forgiving outstanding debt rapidly accumulated from a devastating virus pandemic would at the very least be the human thing to do...but we all know they would never even consider it. These people don't have a shred of empathy for others, which is an unfortunate trait for this type of personality. So instead, the people are left cleaning up the mess facing financial ruin at the hands of the banks. The level of legal corruption is immeasurable.
Listen. The entire globe is going to financially reel from this unless the banks forgive everything they are gouging off of. These are the wealthiest human beings on the planet. Forgiving outstanding debt rapidly accumulated from a devastating virus pandemic would at the very least be the human thing to do...but we all know they would never even consider it. These people don't have a shred of empathy for others, which is an unfortunate trait for this type of personality. So instead, the people are left cleaning up the mess facing financial ruin at the hands of the banks. The level of legal corruption is immeasurable.
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Alison Jackson:
Commercial users pay a LOT less than residential users. Maybe the demand was less, but with everyone home, revenue should be up.
This is nothing but a story to justify sticking it to us once again.
Commercial users pay a LOT less than residential users. Maybe the demand was less, but with everyone home, revenue should be up.
This is nothing but a story to justify sticking it to us once again.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Amen
eddy watts
If
people thought being shut-down for as long as NB has been, (trying to
keep it's death by covid below .001).........that any "opening" would be
painless, you are in for a huge shock; and don't expect the feds to
throw $$$ at the province, as there are others, who in many cases have
been open longer, needing help.
David Amos
Reply to @eddy watts: FYI
Ottawa provides N.B. with $200M to restart economy during COVID-19
There are still 3 active cases of the respiratory illness in New Brunswick
Elizabeth Fraser · CBC News · Posted: Jul 17, 2020 3:38 PM AT
Ottawa provides N.B. with $200M to restart economy during COVID-19
There are still 3 active cases of the respiratory illness in New Brunswick
Elizabeth Fraser · CBC News · Posted: Jul 17, 2020 3:38 PM AT
David Peters
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos:
Wouldn't it be nice to have a detailed accounting of that $200M?
Wouldn't it be nice to have a detailed accounting of that $200M?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Peters: Ask the Auditor General to do her job
Don Smith
Sounds more like we have been put on notice for a rate hike or worse SMART METERS!
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Don Smith: Ya can't say that I didn't warn ya many times
Terry Tibbs
We have a situation where most folks are sitting home entertaining themselves, so somehow, we are to believe usage is down, and it's not like one single residential user gets any special deals. Yet losing money is supposedly what happened? Right.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Its not rocket science
Norman Albert Snr
Guess that would have something to do with the call I got today not allowing incentive grants for upgrade during a Pandemic
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Norman Albert Snr: Yup
Lou Bell
So really , the loss should already be mostly made up by now if one understands the markets and where they stand today . I have a suspicion there's more to this than just those investments !
James Vander
Reply to @Lou Bell:
There's always more to this when it's NB Power, however, the markets are
still a long way from their pre-Covid highs.
Commercial power usage would be down so far that residential rates would never cover off. I'm not defending NB Power by any means, but this is their latest excuse for missing the numbers....Not sure which one they'll use next time.
Commercial power usage would be down so far that residential rates would never cover off. I'm not defending NB Power by any means, but this is their latest excuse for missing the numbers....Not sure which one they'll use next time.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks your hero Higgy would say it ain't so after all Vestcor was his creation N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell
Reply to @James Vander: You're wrong ! Actually the markets are near their pre COVID highs !
James Vander
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Really? The TSX being off by almost 2000 points yesterday is hardly
being close to pre-Covid highs. Ask anyone who is on an income based on
stock market performance how they are doing and if they've noticed a
drop in income lately. Not gov't pensions, but those in the real world.
Not everyone bought Tesla and gold stocks..../ We are in a recession.
Not everyone bought Tesla and gold stocks..../ We are in a recession.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-point-lepreau-nuclear-plant-running-like-newborn-1.5652829
Aging Point Lepreau nuclear plant is running like a newborn
New Brunswick plant has operated trouble-free for one year
· CBC · Posted: Jul 17, 2020 5:00 AM AT
The Point Lepreau nuclear generating station is a 705 mega watt Candu-6 reactor. It has been a fixture at the edge of the Bay of Fundy for nearly four decades. (Submitted/NB Power)
New Brunswick's 37-year-old nuclear plant at Point Lepreau quietly completed a full year of uninterrupted power generation earlier this week, the first since its pre-teen years in the early 1990s.
It's a significant development that, if sustainable, holds the potential to alter the financial fortunes of NB Power.
"This accomplishment, especially through the COVID-19 pandemic, is something the station is proud of," the utility said in a statement about the milestone.
The nuclear plant was shut down for a week last summer for an unexpected repair but since coming back online on July 15, 2019, it has run trouble free.
Former premier Richard Hatfield loved large modern economic development projects and pushed for the adoption of nuclear power in New Brunswick. After years of construction and controversy, Lepreau went into commercial production in 1983. (CBC NEWS)
Over the last year, Lepreau has generated close to 5.8 terawatt hours of electricity for distribution, about $400 million worth depending on market prices, and close to 100 per cent of its maximum capacity.
NB Power believes it is the longest the plant has run without shutting down since at least 1994, and perhaps ever, since earlier records are not easily accessed.
The flawless year of operation for Lepreau follows the investment of several hundred million dollars in the plant to solve serious performance problems that emerged following its $2.4 billion refurbishment that ended in 2012.
It produced only 90 per cent of the electricity expected of it during the first seven and a half years after refurbishment due to a number of malfunctions in non nuclear equipment that had not been upgraded during the effort to replace nuclear components.
$500 million in repairs
Lepreau began what was supposed to be an 18-month, $1.4 billion refurbishment of its nuclear components in 2008. The renovation finished three years late and $1 billion over budget, and the plant performed below expectations until recently. (Photo submitted)
Multiple unscheduled shutdowns caused by the malfunctions between 2012 and last July cost NB Power more than $200 million in lost electrical production and pushed the cost of capital repairs and upgrades to improve reliability at Lepreau to more than $500 million.
That has been weighing down NB Power's bottom line and undermining plans to pay down debt.
NB Power has been unable to pay down its multi-billion dollar debt as planned since 2013 in part because of production problems and maintenance costs at the Point Lepreau nuclear generating station. (Submitted/NB Power)
It has and NB Power now expects Lepreau to fuel an increase in its profitability.
"If we think about what have been the primary drivers that have led to subpar (financial) performance the last number of years, we can point to Point Lepreau's performance coming out of the refurbishment," NB Power's chief financial officer, Darren Murphy, said at hearings in February during Lepreau's current mistake-free run.
"Unfortunately, it did not perform as we would have liked. However … we have been able to substantially improve the performance of Point Lepreau, therefore, reducing the risk that Lepreau will be the (cause) of subpar performance."
Originally, Lepreau was scheduled to be taken offline in April for annual maintenance but COVID-19 restrictions in the province derailed those plans until September. Instead it has kept running and setting production records.
27 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Amos
Content disabled
Methinks folks should consider how much power we need N'esy Pas? Roy Kirk
Let's not forget that running for extended periods and deferring maintenance to do so is part of what got that plant into trouble in the 1st place. It is too valuable an asset to suffer such abuse. Deferral of a necessary maintenance shutdown -- even if that deferral was made necessary by the pandemic -- is a poor excuse for a celebration.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Roy Kirk: Good point
Morgan Brown
Reply to @Roy Kirk: Point Lepreau is not suffering abuse; the planned maintenance shutdown in April was the preferred target for the outage (i.e., Spring lower demand period). Delaying the outage until the Fall (another lower-demand period) is well within the safe capability of the unit, but utilities prefer to perform maintenance when scheduled (It's a huge effort to plan all the activities and coordinate the crews, contractors and supplies). Bruce-1 (also a CANDU, in Ont) just completed a 694-day continuous run, and Darlington-1 (also an Ont CANDU) passed the 903-day mark (still going), setting a new North American record for a continuous run (passing 894 days set in 1994).
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Morgan Brown: I sense that you might be an NB Power employee, probably at the nuke plant, right?
Gilles
Villeneuve
Content disabled
We
need to invest heavily in nuclear power to reduce carbon emissions and
prevent climate change. Clean, emission free electricity from nuclear
fired power plants is the future for our planet and is the only viable
energy source that can take over from oil when it runs out.
Fred
Brewer
Content disabled
Reply to @Gilles
Villeneuve: Nuclear is NOT the only viable source to take over from oil.
According to data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration,
there are seven countries already at, or very, close to 100 percent
renewable power: Iceland (100 percent), Paraguay (100), Costa Rica (99),
Norway (98.5), Austria (80), Brazil (75), and Denmark (69.4). Nuclear
is NOT a renewable power source and we need to stop using it. We still
have not figured out what to do with nuclear waste and just look at
Fukushima and Chernobyl. With things go wrong with nuclear they go wrong
big time.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Gilles Villeneuve: Yea Right
Lewis
Hamilton
Content disabled
Reply to @Fred
Brewer: all of the countries you list, except Iceland and Denmark, use
hydroelectric for the vast majority of their energy production. Iceland
uses geothermal and Denmark wind. They all benefit from their particular
geography. We don’t have the river system to support building dams. The
environmentalists want the Mactaquac dam removed instead of replaced.
Geothermal isn’t an option and neither is large scale wind. Large scale
solar is also not an option because of our latitude.
Morgan Brown
Content disabled
Reply to @Lewis
Hamilton: In addition, Denmark benefits from having a lot of inter-ties
with large grids (Germany and Sweden) which provide electricity to
Denmark when the winds die / at night / cloudy days. Denmark is able to
sell (or at least deliver) its excess electricity to these large grids
when the winds are blowing strongly. Wind and solar have their place
in providing electricity to grids, but need very large storage
capability (none in Denmark, I believe is still the case) or
interconnections if you are going to try to power a country (or even a
region).
In addition, electricity is only a portion of a country's energy consumption - fossil fuels power most transportation and a lot of heating. If these are going to be made less carbon-intensive, then much more clean electricity is needed. Hence the need for nuclear.
In addition, electricity is only a portion of a country's energy consumption - fossil fuels power most transportation and a lot of heating. If these are going to be made less carbon-intensive, then much more clean electricity is needed. Hence the need for nuclear.
Terry Tibbs
If I remember
correctly, didn't everyone whine and cry when a professional was
imported, and paid the big bucks, to do this very thing?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: I am still whining
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos:
You don't see this kind of turn-around without talent and talent doesn't come cheap.
John Branscombe
"Over
the last year, Lepreau has generated close to 5.8 terawatts of
electricity for distribution, about $400 million worth depending on
market prices, and close to 100 per cent of its maximum capacity."
Good grief! It would be nice if articles about energy were written by people with some grasp of the subject they are writing about. A terawatt is a measure of power, not energy. The term that the writer should have used is terawatt hour, the unit of energy. This error is akin to saying the distance between two places is 100 km per hour or that a container holds a certain number of litres per minute. Unfortunately, such a blunder in discussing the topic displays a lack of knowledge of the subject matter and diminishes the trust one should place in the rest of the article, even if the rest is competently written. A basic science education should prevent such a lack of understanding of the subject matter.
Good grief! It would be nice if articles about energy were written by people with some grasp of the subject they are writing about. A terawatt is a measure of power, not energy. The term that the writer should have used is terawatt hour, the unit of energy. This error is akin to saying the distance between two places is 100 km per hour or that a container holds a certain number of litres per minute. Unfortunately, such a blunder in discussing the topic displays a lack of knowledge of the subject matter and diminishes the trust one should place in the rest of the article, even if the rest is competently written. A basic science education should prevent such a lack of understanding of the subject matter.
Lou Bell
Reply to @John Branscombe: Whos cares ? Ye got your 15 minutes from those few that care, now move on
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Just because it does not bother you, does not mean it does not bother
others. I am sure if a salesman tried to tell you a car has a fuel
economy of 25 litres, you would soon be corrected him/her and would lose
respect for someone who should know better.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks you should take your own advice N'esy Pas?
Greg Miller
Bottom line--what does all this mean to my electric bill? Should I be happy or unhappy?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Greg Miller: Have you ever seen your rates lowered?
Justin Time
"It
is a bit more difficult to go any further than the 26 years (1994),"
said NB Power spokesperson Marc Belliveau in an email about whether it
has ever run longer. " I call B.S. on that. Detailed records on
operation from day 1 were and are necessary and available.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Justin Time: Of course
Lewis Hamilton
Reply to @Justin
Time: they are likely on paper and archived somewhere. What he is saying
is that nobody has the time to go digging for them just for this news
article.
Alex Butt
Perhaps
if the top brass of nb power stopped wasting so much money on bonuses,
excessively high wages, squandering and magic joi beans the debt could
be brought down. All they think about is how to take more money out of
our pockets for their less than stellar service!
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Alex Butt: That has been par for the course since I was a kid
Steve Caissie
NB Power managers must want bigger bonuses.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Steve Caissie: Of that I have no doubt
Ben Haroldson
Content disabled
Sounds like the perfect time to sell it, utility and all.
Theo
Lavigne
Content disabled
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: When something run good do you sell it?
Terry Tibbs
Content disabled
Reply to @Theo Lavigne:
Only if you are sure it's on it's last gasp and ALL downhill from here.
Only if you are sure it's on it's last gasp and ALL downhill from here.
Fred Brewer
Content disabled
Reply to @Theo
Lavigne: When my car runs great, I can get market value for it. When my
car runs poorly or not at all then I get very little for it. So to
answer your question, yes, the best time to sell something is when it is
running properly.
Theo
Lavigne
Content disabled
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Funny when my car runs great I keep it
Theo
Lavigne
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: And you know this?
Theo
Lavigne
Content disabled
Reply to @Fred
Brewer: Yes i can look at a Carfax for your car what about the nuclear
Power plant, maybe they have a NeclearFax for that...
Fred Brewer
Content disabled
Reply to @Theo
Lavigne: And then when the engine explodes you pay to have the car
hauled away because it is worthless. But if you had sold it a year
sooner you would have gotten thousands for it. To each his own I guess.
It is always a matter of judgement, you look at the age of the car, the
value of the car and the risk of expensive repairs down the road. The
best time to sell Point Lepreau is when it is running like a top. It is
no spring chicken.
Fred Brewer
Content disabled
Reply to @Theo
Lavigne: CARFAX only tells you about accident damage. They cannot
determine if the engine or transmission is about to explode.
Theo
Lavigne
Content disabled
Reply to @Fred Brewer: So you believe N.B. power when they say it's running good. That can also blow up next week.
Terry Tibbs
Content disabled
Reply to @Theo Lavigne:
"Things" can change quicker than that...............
The truth is: we can't ever stop attempting to use that reactor. The clean-up, if it was ever decommissioned, would likely bankrupt Canada, never mind New Brunswick.
"Things" can change quicker than that...............
The truth is: we can't ever stop attempting to use that reactor. The clean-up, if it was ever decommissioned, would likely bankrupt Canada, never mind New Brunswick.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Methinks Higgy and Trudeau The Younger think we can afford anything and everything Nesy Pas?
Theo
Lavigne
Content disabled
Reply to @Fred Brewer There goes the sale lost 16 million in March lol..
.
.
Fred Brewer
Content disabled
Reply to @Theo Lavigne: Yep so sell her now!
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: BINGO
Theo
Lavigne
Content disabled
Reply to @Fred Brewer: It just lost a tire lol
Fred Brewer
Congratulations! Now
if you can keep that up for the next 12 years or so, we might be able to
recoup the $2.4 billion cost of the last refit. On an all-costs basis,
will Point Lepreau ever turn a profit? I doubt it very much.
Theo
Lavigne
Reply to @Fred Brewer: If they get the Smart Meters they want ,they will run a profit you can bet on it...
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Theo
Lavigne: Yes they may turn a profit on smart meters after the $13
million cost has been recovered, and after NB Power hikes the power
rates for time of day power use. But any profits earned won't come close
to what they have lost on boondoggle projects like Lepreau and Coleson
Cove.
Dianne
MacPherson
Reply to @Theo Lavigne:
No 'Smart Meter" for me !!!
And I'm hoping The PUB won't give permission
for their use !!!
No 'Smart Meter" for me !!!
And I'm hoping The PUB won't give permission
for their use !!!
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dianne
MacPherson: Methinks my friend Roger Richard has been working very
diligently to make your wish come true N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: BINGO
pete prosser
What ever happened to all the law suits? Did we ever win any?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @pete prosser: Kinda sorta
---------- Original message ----------
From: "Mitton, Megan (LEG)" <Megan.Mitton@gnb.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:01:01 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: RE "Not So Smart" Meters versus 100 million
loonies Methinks the silence of CBC, Higgy, Minister Mikey Holland and
all your political and media cohorts spoke volumes N'esy Pas Mr.Jones?
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Thank you for contacting me. This response is to assure you that your
message has been received. I welcome and appreciate receiving comments
and questions from constituents.
All emails are reviewed on a regular basis, however due to the high
volume of emails my office receives, I may not be able to respond
personally to each one.
For media requests, please call: 506-429-2285.
---
Merci de m'avoir contacté. Ce courriel a pour but de vous assurer que
votre message a bien été reçu. Je vous invite à me faire part de vos
commentaires et de vos questions.
Tous les courriels sont révisés régulièrement, mais en raison du
volume élevé de courriels que mon bureau reçoit, il se peut que je ne
sois pas en mesure de répondre personnellement à chacun.
Pour les demandes des médias, veuillez appeler: 506-429-2285.
Megan Mitton
Member of the Legislative Assembly/Députée
Memramcook - Tantramar
megan.mitton@gnb.ca
506-378-1565
---------- Original message ----------
From: "Carr, Jeff Hon. (ELG/EGL)" <Jeff.Carr@gnb.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:01:03 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: RE "Not So Smart" Meters versus 100 million
loonies Methinks the silence of CBC, Higgy, Minister Mikey Holland and
all your political and media cohorts spoke volumes N'esy Pas Mr.Jones?
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Thank you for your email. Your thoughts, comments and input are greatly valued.
You can be assured that all emails and letters are carefully read,
reviewed and taken into consideration.
There may be occasions when, given the issues you have raised and the
need to address them effectively, we will forward a copy of your
correspondence to the appropriate government official. Accordingly, a
response may take several business days.
If your request is Constituency related, please contact Rose Ann at my
Constituency office in Fredericton Junction at RoseAnn.Smith@gnb.ca or
by phone at 506-368-2938.
Thanks again for your email.
______
Merci pour votre courriel. Nous vous sommes très reconnaissants de
nous avoir fait part de vos idées, commentaires et observations.
Nous tenons à vous assurer que nous lisons attentivement et prenons en
considération tous les courriels et lettres que nous recevons.
Dans certains cas, nous transmettrons votre message au ministère
responsable afin que les questions soulevées puissent être traitées de
la manière la plus efficace possible. En conséquence, plusieurs jours
ouvrables pourraient s’écouler avant que nous puissions vous répondre.
Si votre demande est liée à la circonscription, veuillez contacter
Rose Ann à mon bureau de circonscription à Fredericton Junction à
RoseAnn.Smith@gnb.ca ou par téléphone au 506-368-2938.
Merci encore pour votre courriel.
---------- Original message ----------
From: "Harrison, Wanda" <WHarrison@nbpower.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:01:06 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: EXT - RE "Not So Smart" Meters versus 100
million loonies Methinks the silence of CBC, Higgy, Minister Mikey
Holland and all your political and media cohorts spoke volumes N'esy
Pas Mr.Jones?
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
I am currently out of the office with no access to my email.
Please contact Joanne Regan at jregan@nbpower.com or 458-3711 for any issues.
Thank you
________________________________
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---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 07:00:56 -0400
Subject: RE "Not So Smart" Meters versus 100 million loonies Methinks
the silence of CBC, Higgy, Minister Mikey Holland and all your
political and media cohorts spoke volumes N'esy Pas Mr.Jones?
To: "Robert. Jones" <Robert.Jones@cbc.ca>, "Holland, Mike (LEG)"
<mike.holland@gnb.ca>, lclark@nbpower.com,
colleen.dentremont@
<Bill.Morneau@canada.ca>, premier <premier@ontario.ca>, Office of the
Premier <scott.moe@gov.sk.ca>, premier <premier@gov.ab.ca>
Cc: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
<wharrison@nbpower.com>, gthomas <gthomas@nbpower.com>,
Andrea.AndersonMason@gnb.ca, jesse <jesse@viafoura.com>, news
<news@dailygleaner.com>, nben@nben.ca, premier <premier@gnb.ca>,
"blaine.higgs" <blaine.higgs@gnb.ca>, "dominic.leblanc.c1"
<dominic.leblanc.c1@parl.gc.ca>, "Dominic.Cardy"
<Dominic.Cardy@gnb.ca>, "jeff.carr" <jeff.carr@gnb.ca>,
oldmaison@yahoo.com, andre <andre@jafaust.com>,
"Ginette.PetitpasTaylor" <Ginette.PetitpasTaylor@parl.
"Sherry.Wilson" <Sherry.Wilson@gnb.ca>, "Ross.Wetmore"
<Ross.Wetmore@gnb.ca>, megan.mitton@gnb.ca, "David.Coon"
<David.Coon@gnb.ca>, "Arseneau, Kevin (LEG)"
<Kevin.A.Arseneau@gnb.ca>, Newsroom <Newsroom@globeandmail.com>,
Nathalie Sturgeon <sturgeon.nathalie@
"steve.murphy" <steve.murphy@ctv.ca>, "nick.brown"
<nick.brown@gnb.ca>, "robert.mckee" <robert.mckee@gnb.ca>,
"Kevin.Vickers" <Kevin.Vickers@gnb.ca>, "Tim.RICHARDSON"
<Tim.RICHARDSON@gnb.ca>, "Trevor.Holder" <Trevor.Holder@gnb.ca>,
"rick.desaulniers" <rick.desaulniers@gnb.ca>, "michelle.conroy"
<michelle.conroy@gnb.ca>, "Mike.Comeau" <Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca>, "carl.
davies" <carl.davies@gnb.ca>, "carl.urquhart" <carl.urquhart@gnb.ca>,
"Cathy.Rogers" <Cathy.Rogers@gnb.ca>, "robert.gauvin"
<robert.gauvin@gnb.ca>, "Roger.L.Melanson" <roger.l.melanson@gnb.ca>,
"Roger.Brown" <Roger.Brown@fredericton.ca>, "ron.tremblay2"
<ron.tremblay2@gmail.com>, philippe@dunsky.com,
Steven_Reid3@carleton.ca, "darrow.macintyre"
<darrow.macintyre@cbc.ca>, "Chuck.Thompson" <Chuck.Thompson@cbc.ca>,
"sylvie.gadoury" <sylvie.gadoury@radio-canada.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Harrison, Wanda" <WHarrison@nbpower.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 00:04:16 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: EXT - Too Too Funny Methinks the LIEbranos
could use a little Deja Vu N'esy Pas Ross Wetmore?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
I am currently out of the office with no access to my email.
Please contact Joanne Regan at jregan@nbpower.com or 458-3711 for any issues.
Thank you
________________________________
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you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any use, review,
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strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
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and any printout thereof, immediately. Your co-operation is
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et d'?liminer l'original du courriel, ainsi que toute copie
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reconnaissants de votre collaboration.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 09:18:46 -0400
Subject: Attn Lori Clark Why do yo keep asking Roger Richard if I will
be attending the EUB hearing?
To: lclark@nbpower.com, colleen.dentremont@
Cc: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Obviously I am not there today nor am I coming so the Saint John cops
can quit hanging around the meeting rooms at the Delta looking for me
and do something important like catching crooks If you wish to speak
to me I have no doubt that Colleen Dentremont saved my cell number
after she finally called me back last week
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Harrison, Wanda" <WHarrison@nbpower.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 12:21:19 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: EXT - Methinks Jacky Boy Keir and his
LIEbrano cohorts are too Happy Happy Happy these days to suit some
folks N'esy Pas Minister Mikey Holland?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
I am currently out of the office with no access to my email.
Please contact Joanne Regan at jregan@nbpower.com or 458-3711 for any issues.
Thank you
________________________________
This e-mail communication (including any or all attachments) is
intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is
addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If
you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any use, review,
retransmission, distribution, dissemination, copying, printing, or
other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this e-mail, is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
contact the sender and delete the original and any copy of this e-mail
and any printout thereof, immediately. Your co-operation is
appreciated.
Le pr?sent courriel (y compris toute pi?ce jointe) s'adresse
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https://davidraymondamos3.
Tuesday, 21 January 2020
Smart meter critics change tone on NB Power's new business case
https://twitter.com/
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 49 others
Methinks folks should thank Dr. Roger Richard He went to a great deal
of effort and expense to bring Dr. Paul Heroux and Dr. Francis
Tatoutchoup before the EUB to speak in defense of our interests N'esy
Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.
#nbpoli #cdnpol
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
Smart meter critics change tone on NB Power's new business case
Outside energy consultants say tweaked plan ‘a good business case’
Robert Jones · CBC News · Posted: Jan 21, 2020 6:00 AM AT
NB Power's $92-million smart meter plan has been under the microscope
during EUB hearings this month. (Robert Jones/CBC)
NB Power's $92-million plan to buy and deploy smart meters in New
Brunswick got a late endorsement Monday from a pair of consultants
unconnected to the utility who had lobbed early criticisms at the
project — a change in tone not lost on at least one Energy and
Utilities Board member who will soon be deciding its fate.
"Both of you there just gave some compliments to NB Power on their
business case. So you think this is a well-prepared business case?"
asked EUB member Michael Costello during the testimony of Philip
Diodomenico and Kathleen Kelly, consultants with Daymark Energy
Advisors Inc. of Worcester, Mass.
Diodomenico and Kelly were hired by public intervener Heather Black to
independently review NB Power's smart meter plan and told Costello
despite some shortcomings it is a much better proposal than they have
dealt with elsewhere
"Generally, the business case is a good business case," said Diodomenico.
U.S. energy experts Philip Diodomenico and Kathleen Kelly gave NB
Power high marks for its smart meter plan on the final day of witness
testimony, despite being critical in a November report. (CBC)
"It's made good use of outside consultants and expertise. It's taken a
conservative approach in a number of areas, not everywhere, but in a
number of areas. Yeah, so it's a good business case."
Kelly said although NB Power might be underestimating expenses and
overestimating benefits of its smart meter plan by several millions of
dollars, it still looks to be a solid investment.
"We've tried to take some of the assumptions and expand them and make
them more conservative to make ourselves more comfortable with it,"
said Kelly.
"We've reduced the benefit cost ratio, but we haven't seen it go to
one [break even] or lower."
EUB member Michael Costello is one of three who will decide the fate
of NB Power's smart meter plan and was struck by compliments it was
getting from experts hired by the public intervener. (CBC)
Black recommended against the adoption of NB Power's smart meter plan
during the utility's first application in 2018 and, although she has
expressed no personal opinion on the matter so far this time, her
experts gave the utility's case an important boost at a critical time.
The two said they would not recommend against the project moving
forward if NB Power expands on a risk assessment of things that could
go wrong and how they might be fixed and develops acceptable ways to
measure whether the meters are accomplishing predetermined goals.
New Brunswick public intervener Heather Black opposed NB Power's smart
meter application in 2018, but experts she hired for the current
application are giving it high marks. (CBC)
Diodomenico and Kelly were the final two witnesses to be called during
the hearing, which has lasted six days and moves to final arguments on
Wednesday.
Extent of financial benefits questioned
NB Power has presented evidence suggesting its acquisition of 360,000
smart meters will provide 16 financial benefits that together will
exceed the projected cost of the project by $31.1 million over 15
years.
Although Diodomenico and Kelly said that net benefit number is
probably too high, it's likely not zero, something a second
independent expert was less certain of.
Alice Napoleon, a senior associate with Synapse Energy Economics of
Cambridge, Mass., also testified Monday.
A third U.S.-based energy expert who testified Monday about NB Power's
smart meter plan was less flattering. Alice Napoleon was hired by the
EUB and testified over the phone the proposal is risky for NB Power
customers and may cost more than it makes. (Synapse Energy Economics)
Synapse was hired to independently evaluate the smart meter plan as
well, but by the Energy and Utilities Board itself.
Napoleon told the board it is unclear from her analysis — because of
vagueness in NB Power's numbers — whether the project will be a
financial benefit or liability in the long run.
"We find that NB Power has presented a proposal that, under plausible
conditions, would result in benefits to ratepayers," said Napoleon in
her opening statement.
"Under alternative but still plausible conditions, the proposed AMI
(advanced metering infrastructure) plan might not provide net benefits
to customers."
Intervener raises health concerns
Also testifying Monday was McGill University lecturer Paul Heroux, who
was called by intervener Roger Richard, a staunch opponent of smart
meters.
Heroux said his research shows that even low levels of radiation, like
from radio frequencies that will be constantly emitted by smart
meters, pose a health hazard to humans.
NB Power rate used to justify smart meters 'low,' says expert
Expert says true smart meter value won't emerge until after they're approved
"We have been for a long time influenced by this radiation
unknowingly," said Heroux.
Earlier in the hearing, Dr. Michele Plant, a witness for NB Power,
testified there was "no carcinogenic risk" from radio waves or
frequencies at "an exposure level thousands of times higher than those
measured near a smart meter."
In the hearing two years ago, the EUB ruled it could find no credible
evidence that smart meters posed any health risks.
CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices
70 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Raymond Amos
Methinks Higgy and Minister Mikey would agree that their silence on
this topic speaks volumes to political animals such as I. For a year
they could have picked up the phone to stop this "Not So Smart" Meter
madness and saved us 100 million loonies in the process. Instead the
conservatives opted to roll the dice and leave the matter in the hands
of EUB Commissioners all of whom are politically appointed liberal
buddies. Its a wicked game and I am very curious as to how it will
play out but I have no doubt whatsoever Jacky Boy Keir already knows
N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: "Intervener raises health concerns Also
testifying Monday was McGill University lecturer Paul Heroux, who was
called by intervener Roger Richard, a staunch opponent of smart
meters."
Go Figure
NEW BRUNSWICK ENERGY and UTILITIES BOARD
Matter 452
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation for
approval and Advanced Metering Infrastructure capital project
Held at the Delta Hotel, Saint John, N.B. on January 20th 2020.
Page 880
Q. - Oui merci. Si la Commission accepterait les compteurs
intelligents et le compte de report en ce qui concerne l’amortissement
de leur valeur comptables restant des compteurs d’électricité
actuellement installes d’Énergie Nouveau Brunswick, est-ce que cela
affecterait votre travail ou votre revenu?
A. Non.
Q. - Merci. Depuis quand on se connait, vous et moi?
A. On s’est connu il y a plusieurs visages qui sont familiers. J’étais
dans la session précédente, il y a un ou deux relativement à la même
question, j’étais ici. Vous étiez là. Monsieur Furey, je le reconnais.
DR. RICHARD: Merci. Monsieur le président, je demande respectueusement
à la Commission de reconnaitre Docteur Héroux expert dans la
technologie des ondes.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Donc c’est un peu différente de ce que vous avez envoyé
par courrier électronique. Si je relis votre courrier électronique que
vous avez envoyé aux parties, Docteur Richard, vous avez l’intention,
dans ce moment-là de le reconnait comme un expert en tant que
physicien chercheur dans les technologies des ondes. Est-ce que vous
mainteniez cette…
DR. RICHARD: Oui
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay, merci. So there is -- I am just wondering if
there is anybody who is objecting to the qualification of Dr. Heroux
in the area of expertise that Dr. Richard has suggested? So hearing
nothing, Dr. Heroux will be recognized -- and I will say this in
French -- Comme un expert en tant que physicien chercheur dans la
technologie des ondes. Docteur Richard?
Q. - Oui, merci. Madame Mitchell si vous pouvez remettre le document
RR 1.03. Merci. Si je comprends bien monsieur le président, Docteur
Héroux a droit à un opening statement?
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Oui Docteur Richard, et j’aimerais juste vous rappelez
Docteur Héroux que vous n’avez pas besoin de nous relater votre
rapport. On l’a lu. On a pris connaissance de votre rapport. Si vous
voulez donner peut-être juste un sommaire de vos conclusions. À ce
moment-là, lorsque vous avez donné ça, les parties vont pouvoir vous
contre-interroger sur le rapport.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
MR. FUREY: Excuse me, Mr. Vice-Chair. We have been provided with no
opening statement.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: No, he is not giving an opening statement, Mr. Furey.
He is just providing a conclusion of his report -- a short conclusion
of what his report is.
DR. HEROUX: So I have a number of pages and on the first page I talk
about the potential advantages of smart meters. Then on the second
page I talk about the fact that meters, when installed, could become a
significant source of exposure beyond what is initially intended. Then
I talk about the difference between heat, recognizing heat only as an
agent, versus recognizing the field as a biologically active agent and
how I would say companies have avoided recognizing fields and only
recognize heat and I talk as well about the fact that recent research,
the National Toxicology Program, the Ramazzini Institute have changed
the situation and that -- also that it is likely that the public
health community will change its recommendations in the very near
future in relation to biological impact. That smart meters are special
in the sense that most people can choose to avoid exposures from cell
phones or from other devices, but that a smart meter is sort of
blanket imposed on a number of people, that this question is important
to -- is well known in society that epidemiologists are detecting that
some increases in diseases are occurring and that the pattern of
damage that is seen in animal models is not compatible with the
engineering view that is based on heat.Is that short enough?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Autre choses Docteur Richard avant que
votre témoin soit contre-interroger?
DR. RICHARD: Non.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Ok merci.
Mr. Furey, I am just wondering how long you are going to be? It is
getting close to a morning break and if you anticipate to be --
MR. FUREY: I have no questions, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you. Mr. Bourque, do you have any questions
for this witness?
MR. BOURQUE: Yes, I do.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Can you move forward please?
MR. BOURQUE: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BOURQUE:
Q. - The first question is what is the health implications for
children and pregnant women that stay at home all day?
A. Well I do promote the idea that in schools, for example, we should
not use wifi because of experimental evidence that we have on
modifications seen in the brains of rats following exposures to wifi.
And as you know, the radiation from smart meters is not very different
from that of wifi. So contrary to the report of Dr. Plante who does
not believe that the electrosensitive people are real, I believe that
they are very real, that they are only a small fraction of the
population but that chronic exposure to these fields from smart
meters, either alone or in combination, because of the length of
exposure, can have an effect that is physiological and perhaps even
irreversible. So I believe that this is a serious question and you may
be aware that a number of countries in the world already, it is
forbidden to use wifi near very young children. So when you were
talking about brains in development, a number of connections are being
made that are -- that depend on very delicate processes that can be
influenced, in my opinion, by electronic waves.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
Q. - Thank you. Would this have an effect on the elderly also that are
confined to, you know, homes, that can’t get out?
A. Yes. I don’t know if you have been given a copy of my most recent
publication relating to oxygen and magnetic fields? Has this been
provided, Dr. Richard?
DR. RICHARD: Non malheureusement je ne l’ai pas déposé.
A. A just completed work --
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So if it is not in the public record before us, Dr.
Heroux, I would ask you not to comment on it.
WITNESS: So I would not comment on the publication but can I comment
on the work leading to the publication or --
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Well if it is not before us, it is hard for us to
understand what was written and to have the parties to question on it
so, no, I would ask you not to comment on it.
WITNESS: Then to answer the question is that there is a large body of
literature that is not connected to me that already exists, that says
that exposure to electromagnetic radiation increases free radicals.
Maybe you know what free radicals are. Those are molecules that are
activated in the body that can create damage and there is a very
substantial literature that says that exposure to electromagnetic
radiation, even at low intensities, can increase the amount of free
radicals in the body.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
Free radicals, by physiologists, are implicated in a large number of
chronic diseases. In other words, you may not feel these effects
immediately but you will feel them later either by increases in the
rates of disease or by diseases progressing more quickly. This is what
free radicals are understood to do. And they do this in very, I would
say important diseases, for example, in diabetes, which is 25 percent
of your health budget, in things like Alzheimer’s and in Parkinson’s.
And indeed there are people who promote the idea that these individual
diseases are connected with electromagnetic radiation exposures and
these connections are observed not only with cell phones, but they are
observed with even proximity to a cell tower, which is if you live
within 500 meters of a cell tower, that is low field intensities, we
observe health changes in relation to this. So this was essentially
confirmed not only by epidemiology in the field, but also by the data
of the Ramazzini Institute which was released at the same time as the
National toxicology program that studied the -- I would say the
effects of cell phones.
David Raymond Amos
Methinks a lot of folks should thank my friend Dr. Roger Richard
At the very least Minister Mikey Holland and his political cohorts
cannot deny that my friend went to a great deal of effort and expense
to bring the expert witnesses Dr. Paul Heroux and Dr. Francis
Tatoutchoup before the EUB to speak in defense of our rights and
interests AGAIN N'esy Pas?
BruceJack Speculator
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: let's wait to see if the effort was
successful . . .
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @BruceJack Speculator: Methinks that person who does not have
enough class to use his real name should at least thank your neighbor
for trying to defend what you hold so dearly in your wallet N'esy Pas?
BruceJack Speculator
Reply to @BruceJack Speculator: was that the guy talking about radio
waves or something? what about the hazard from 60 hertz power itself
all 24 hours . . . what about the use of cell phones or in-house
portable phones . . . for a smart meter why not just put a metal
shield on the wall behind it ? would that protect the residents? maybe
wear a hat with a metal shield and save oneself from all other types
of E-M radiation too? who could a person thank if they don't know
really why the expert was testifying and perhaps the chance for a
personal gain? let's wait to see if the effort is successful and see
if there is any way to determine why the person intervened?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @BruceJack Speculator: Methinks folks should understand why
you don't use your real name N'esy Pas?
Justin Time
From a previous CBC article.
"A recently revived Energy and Utilities Board review is examining
potentially extreme pricing changes that would shift more cost to
residential consumers in New Brunswick with electric heat and move
other residential consumption to lower demand periods.
The so-called "rate design" initiative could eventually result in
premium prices for consumers in high-demand periods, discounts during
lulls, special charges for peak monthly consumption levels, known as
demand charges, or other measures or combinations of measures designed
to reshape New Brunswick electricity demand. "
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
This same Brattle group also promotes the benefits of smart meters .
What a coincidence.
Residental customers are going to take it again.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: Methinks Minister Mikey knows that I will have
a lot to say Brattle Group's report when the EUB finally holds the
hearing about it that has been delayed since December N'esy Pas?
Justin Time
There's one big assumption that has been made that I don't think has
been sufficiently addressed. Customer acceptance and customer
benefits/detriments. If enough customers opt out then the grand plan
may not meet expectations.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: I must disagree with ye who has a name I do not believe
I do so because I try considering things in extremes
Methinks if everybody opted out then NB Power would make a rather huge
profit collecting our penalties monthly yet it would not have to spend
a dime on "Not So Smart" meters because nobody wanted them in the
first place N'esy Pas
Justin Time
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: We can't get much by you can we.
I think there may be a chance quite a few people opt out of smart
meters unless they can be shown that there is a personal financial
benefit to them. However, I think that the chance of NB Power not
spending a dime on smart meters is next to zero. N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: Methinks everybody knows NB Power already
signed the contracts to get the "Not So Smart" meters This is a just
smoke and mirror show at the circus brought to us by spin doctors from
south of the 49th This article attests to the fact that it has become
rather obvious that our so called "Public" intervener and her Yankee
consultants have changed their tune and she is now working against our
interests N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: Trust that I made certain that Higgy and his
cohorts knew about this "Not So Smart" Meter nonsense long before the
last election
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation
for approval of the schedules of the rates for the fiscal year
commencing April 1, 2018. held at the Delta Hotel, Saint John, New
Brunswick, on February 9th 2018.
Transcript Page 601
VICE-CHAIRMAN: I was a bit surprised when I heard this morning and
yesterday that you are entering into a contract at the end of February
and is that with respect to the purchase of the smart meters?
MS. CLARK: That's correct.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So how can you enter into a contract without the firm
approval of this Board, if we are going to approve or not the AMI? How
prudent is that?
MS. CLARK: So we are at the end stages of the contract in terms of
just the final terms and conditions, but we have been very clear that
we -- with the vendor -- and they recognize that, because we also have
Nova Scotia Power, who is part of our consortium, who also needs Board
approval. So should we not get -- this is conditional on EUB approval.
So should we not get EUB approval, the contract would not proceed.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now there was discussion yesterday, I think it was with
Mr. Stoll regarding time of use and time based pricing, and so I went
through the evidence this morning, and in your main evidence, and I
think one of the objective of having the AMI going forward to a time
of use price structure -- rate structure. So am I understanding that
correctly
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: Continued
MS. CLARK: That is correc. And in the evidence, we did answer an
interrogatory on that and you will see that AMI is an enabler for time
varying rates in the Energy Smart NB Plan. And we did have time
varying rates included in our investment rationale. We took it out,
because we couldn't -- we couldn't pinpoint without more detail as to
what those time varying rates may be and the benefit of those, so we
took them out of the investment rationale at this point in time, but
certainly it's something that we are looking at in the future
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So the fundamental question here is that the Board
should heard -- or hear Matter 357 before approving the AMI? So if we
don't approve time of use, that basically what will happen with your
AMI, I mean it's -- if we don't approve the time of use, which we are
going to hear next year, how can we proceed in approving the AMI
before we look at the rate structure?
MS. CLARK: As we have talked about in our investment rationale, there
are a number of other benefits to both the customer and to the utility
over and above time varying rates that we believe are important for
the utility and for the movement forward of our Energy Smart New
Brunswick plan. Many of those benefits accrue to the customer. And
many of those benefits accrue to the utility and ultimately the
customer. So even if we were not to move in the direction of time
varying rates, we believe that the investment rationale supports the
AMI installation based on the other investment -- or based on the
other benefits that it provides
Justin Gunther
If you're a crown corp in a representative democracy, and you propose
something that citizens clearly don't want, what do you do? You keep
hiring experts to say the same thing over and over again and until the
citizenry is worn down and decides it can no longer invest time and
energy in defending itself.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Justin Gunther: One too many "and's", apologies still on my
first coffee.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Me Too but my coffee has gone cold because I
am enjoying the circus too much today. Methinks a lot of folks are
gonna enjoy the closing arguments tomorrow N'esy Pas?
DON MOFFATT
Reply to @Justin Gunther: I seem to recall someone from history that
used that tactic. Keep telling people the same thing over and over
again and eventually they will think it is the truth. This person used
it a lot in the 1930's and 1940's until he committed suicide.
Roy Nicholl
I have always wondered why they need to use meters with wireless
communications given the meter is connected to a perfectly fine
network over which data could be transmitted.
Steve Cohen
Reply to @Roy Nicholl: which "perfectly fine network" are you referring to?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Roy Nicholl: BINGO
Ben Haroldson
Must have got them in on the butter too
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: NOPE Methinks everybody knows that Cardy and
Higgy have the market cornered on Butter Tarts N'esy Pas?
April Foster
Having looked at the fiasco in Saskatchewan and Ontario, they should
not even be looking at smart meters. If this is supposed to reduce the
rate of consumption, how does NB Power ever expect to recover their
investment? You got it, INCREASE RATES. As for using only in off peak
hours are you ready to freeze in winter and sweat it out in summer. I
think not.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @April Foster: Methinks if you have read the EUB transcripts
in this matter then you should be a fan of the former leader of the
KISS Party N'esy Pas?
Paul Bourgoin
Is this OK?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin: NOPE
Alex Butt
This whole EUB is just a circus show put on by the government and nb
power. Mr Thomas will get his way and when this fails, and millions
wasted he will be long gone and we are stuck paying for it for
decades. Just like the magic joi bean scandal.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Alex Butt: Welcome to the cirus
John Valcourt
This is a crock. NBPower is going to do everything they can to get
these smart meters installed. There is no cost savings to New
Brunswickers it is just the first step towards prime time billing so
it will give the New Brunswick citizen owned corporation more money
that they can waste. It is time to stop them.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @John Valcourt: Methinks you are not alone with that opinion
The question is Minister Mikey and his boss Higgy or their PANB pals
paying attention N'esy Pas?
Justin Time
This whole smart meter thing could become an election issue even
bigger than the failed Hydro Quebec sale.People get upset when you
start hitting their pocketbook and it looks like this will be
inevitable in order to make this whole smart meter thing work. With
the number of residential customers in this province the payback is
questionable. Some studies show a minimum customer base of 1 million
in order to reap the benefits of smart meters. We don't have that many
people, let alone electricity customers.
Roy Kirk
Reply to @Justin Time: The better way is to use monthly consumption
data to estimate mean and variation about mean for each customer over
their prior years use and use those numbers to classify them. Those
with relatively stable monthly consumption go in a low-cost rate
class, those that show greater variation in their energy consumption
go in classes with higher rates. Those who improve their performance
get automatically moved to the lower rate class when their numbers
show the improvement, and they stay there as long as they perform at
that level. Nice predictable billing for the customer and eliminates
the subsidies that small residential users with stable consumption now
pay to cover the cost of larger residential customers that cost more
to serve than they pay in rates.
The net result is much fairer rates for customers and good price
signals for customer investments. All without a 90+ million capital
investment. But benefits without costs just aren't in the wheelhouse
of most utilities. ;-(
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: Methinks everybody knows before the last
election the liberal appointed board did not say ok to "Not So Smart"
meters and Gallant promised to freeze Nb Power's rates just like
Alward did However as soon as Higgy and the PANB took over the mandate
NB Power made another stab at the Metter Madness and have been begging
to rate hikes even though their profit have never been better. So of
course this will be an election issue N'esy Pas
Dan Flanagan
There is a big imbalance between daytime electricity demand &
nighttime demand. A utility has to build its grit for peak demand
& at night the infrastructure is at an idle-----very inefficient.
With pricing policies that encourage off-peak use (dish & cloth
washers, industrial use), we will can avoid building more plants or
buying from out-of-province suppliers. Whether or not I save money, at
least we're doing something for the planet.
Roy Kirk
Reply to @Dan Flanagan: Actually, the big imbalance is between winter
peak demand and summer demand, as the data clear shows. The day night
swing is not insignificant, but it is not the biggest problem on the
system and doesn't justify 90 million investment when most of the
benefit can be gained with existing meters. 'Do what you can with the
equipment you have before you by new equipment' is always good advice.
Dan Flanagan
Reply to @Roy Kirk: Agreed, seasonal variation is bigger than daily
variation. That being said, the only economy I see is to use more
electricity at night & less during peak time; you can't get that
advantage on seasonal usage. Bear in mind, peak US electricity use is
June when AC is in full swing, good for NB generation.
Roy Kirk
Reply to @Dan Flanagan: You can adopt a rate design that uses
existing meters and gives a much better price signal to customers.
That should be done before considering any new meter investment. It'll
work on the summer/winter discrepancy in load, and also the diurnal
load variation that is quite large in winter because of diurnal
outside air temperature swings. Then you can use all that excess
capacity for export sales
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Dan Flanagan: And we can do a lot for the planet by using
that night-time excess power capacity to recharge electric vehicles.
NB Power saves $92 million and gets new night-time customers. Win-Win.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Dan Flanagan @Fred Brewer: A little Deja Vu 4 U 2
NB Power launches PR campaign for revived smart meter plan
The utility plans to reintroduce its smart meter plan for approval
later this year
Hadeel Ibrahim · CBC News · Posted: Jan 10, 2019 7:19 PM AT
Fred Brewer
@Dan Flanagan
Your vigorous defense of NB Power sounds like you might have a vested interest.
Perhaps you are an employee or related to an employee?
Dan Flanagan
@Fred Brewer
I'm retired. No relatives at or business with NB Power & never
worked for them. I don't think NB P is out to screw the consumer. I
feel utilities need to have enough revenue to provide for the future
& be competitive & efficient. But smart meters should save
many users money. Remember, the gov't has control over rate increases.
I trust NB Power more than the government.
David Amos
@Dan Flanagan Whereas you are retired consider studying the
transcripts of the EUB Hearings about Smart Meters etc
Gerry Ferguson
I don't want one on my house.
Dan Flanagan
@Gerry Ferguson
WHY ?
David Amos
@Dan Flanagan "WHY ?"
Methinks you should talk to Roger Richard or me if you truly care.
Everybody knows that our contact information is on record within the
375 and the 357 matters of the EUB N'esy Pas?
Roger Richard
@Dan Flanagan Read Dr. Héroux testimony in NBEUB’s matter #375. It is
in the fourth, fifth or sixth days of the hearin
David Raymond Amos
Surprise Surprise Surprise
NEW BRUNSWICK ENERGY and UTILITIES BOARD
Matter 452
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation for
approval and Advanced Metering Infrastructure capital project
Held at the Delta Hotel, Saint John, N.B. on January 20th 2020.
Page 880
Q. - Oui merci. Si la Commission accepterait les compteurs
intelligents et le compte de report en ce qui concerne l’amortissement
de leur valeur comptables restant des compteurs d’électricité
actuellement installes d’Énergie Nouveau Brunswick, est-ce que cela
affecterait votre travail ou votre revenu?
A. Non.
Q. - Merci. Depuis quand on se connait, vous et moi?
A. On s’est connu il y a plusieurs visages qui sont familiers. J’étais
dans la session précédente, il y a un ou deux relativement à la même
question, j’étais ici. Vous étiez là. Monsieur Furey, je le reconnais.
DR. RICHARD: Merci. Monsieur le président, je demande respectueusement
à la Commission de reconnaitre Docteur Héroux expert dans la
technologie des ondes.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Donc c’est un peu différente de ce que vous avez envoyé
par courrier électronique. Si je relis votre courrier électronique que
vous avez envoyé aux parties, Docteur Richard, vous avez l’intention,
dans ce moment-là de le reconnait comme un expert en tant que
physicien chercheur dans les technologies des ondes. Est-ce que vous
mainteniez cette…
DR. RICHARD: Oui.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay, merci. So there is -- I am just wondering if
there is anybody who is objecting to the qualification of Dr. Heroux
in the area of expertise that Dr. Richard has suggested? So hearing
nothing, Dr. Heroux will be recognized -- and I will say this in
French -- Comme un expert en tant que physicien chercheur dans la
technologie des ondes. Docteur Richard?
Q. - Oui, merci. Madame Mitchell si vous pouvez remettre le document
RR 1.03. Merci. Si je comprends bien monsieur le président, Docteur
Héroux a droit à un opening statement?
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Oui Docteur Richard, et j’aimerais juste vous rappelez
Docteur Héroux que vous n’avez pas besoin de nous relater votre
rapport. On l’a lu. On a pris connaissance de votre rapport. Si vous
voulez donner peut-être juste un sommaire de vos conclusions. À ce
moment-là, lorsque vous avez donné ça, les parties vont pouvoir vous
contre-interroger sur le rapport.
MR. FUREY: Excuse me, Mr. Vice-Chair. We have been provided with no
opening statement.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: No, he is not giving an opening statement, Mr. Furey.
He is just providing a conclusion of his report -- a short conclusion
of what his report is.
DR. HEROUX: So I have a number of pages and on the first page I talk
about the potential advantages of smart meters. Then on the second
page I talk about the fact that meters, when installed, could become a
significant source of exposure beyond what is initially intended. Then
I talk about the difference between heat, recognizing heat only as an
agent, versus recognizing the field as a biologically active agent and
how I would say companies have avoided recognizing fields and only
recognize heat and I talk as well about the fact that recent research,
the National Toxicology Program, the Ramazzini Institute have changed
the situation and that -- also that it is likely that the public
health community will change its recommendations in the very near
future in relation to biological impact. That smart meters are special
in the sense that most people can choose to avoid exposures from cell
phones or from other devices, but that a smart meter is sort of
blanket imposed on a number of people, that this question is important
to -- is well known in society that epidemiologists are detecting that
some increases in diseases are occurring and that the pattern of
damage that is seen in animal models is not compatible with the
engineering view that is based on heat.Is that short enough?
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Autre choses Docteur Richard avant que
votre témoin soit contre-interroger?
DR. RICHARD: Non.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Ok merci.
Mr. Furey, I am just wondering how long you are going to be? It is
getting close to a morning break and if you anticipate to be --
MR. FUREY: I have no questions, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you. Mr. Bourque, do you have any questions
for this witness?
MR. BOURQUE: Yes, I do.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Can you move forward please?
MR. BOURQUE: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BOURQUE:
Q. - The first question is what is the health implications for
children and pregnant women that stay at home all day?
A. Well I do promote the idea that in schools, for example, we should
not use wifi because of experimental evidence that we have on
modifications seen in the brains of rats following exposures to wifi.
And as you know, the radiation from smart meters is not very different
from that of wifi. So contrary to the report of Dr. Plante who does
not believe that the electrosensitive people are real, I believe that
they are very real, that they are only a small fraction of the
population but that chronic exposure to these fields from smart
meters, either alone or in combination, because of the length of
exposure, can have an effect that is physiological and perhaps even
irreversible. So I believe that this is a serious question and you may
be aware that a number of countries in the world already, it is
forbidden to use wifi near very young children. So when you were
talking about brains in development, a number of connections are being
made that are -- that depend on very delicate processes that can be
influenced, in my opinion, by electronic waves.
Q. - Thank you. Would this have an effect on the elderly also that are
confined to, you know, homes, that can’t get out?
A. Yes. I don’t know if you have been given a copy of my most recent
publication relating to oxygen and magnetic fields? Has this been
provided, Dr. Richard?
DR. RICHARD: Non malheureusement je ne l’ai pas déposé.
A. A just completed work --
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So if it is not in the public record before us, Dr.
Heroux, I would ask you not to comment on it.
WITNESS: So I would not comment on the publication but can I comment
on the work leading to the publication or --
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Well if it is not before us, it is hard for us to
understand what was written and to have the parties to question on it
so, no, I would ask you not to comment on it.
WITNESS: Then to answer the question is that there is a large body of
literature that is not connected to me that already exists, that says
that exposure to electromagnetic radiation increases free radicals.
Maybe you know what free radicals are. Those are molecules that are
activated in the body that can create damage and there is a very
substantial literature that says that exposure to electromagnetic
radiation, even at low intensities, can increase the amount of free
radicals in the body. Free radicals, by physiologists, are implicated
in a large number of chronic diseases. In other words, you may not
feel these effects immediately but you will feel them later either by
increases in the rates of disease or by diseases progressing more
quickly. This is what free radicals are understood to do. And they do
this in very, I would say important diseases, for example, in
diabetes, which is 25 percent of your health budget, in things like
Alzheimer’s and in Parkinson’s. And indeed there are people who
promote the idea that these individual diseases are connected with
electromagnetic radiation exposures and these connections are observed
not only with cell phones, but they are observed with even proximity
to a cell tower, which is if you live within 500 meters of a cell
tower, that is low field intensities, we observe health changes in
relation to this. So this was essentially confirmed not only by
epidemiology in the field, but also by the data of the Ramazzini
Institute which was released at the same time as the National
toxicology program that studied the -- I would say the effects of cell
phones. In other words, the NTP released this year data that says yes,
cell phone radiation is connected with cancer. It primarily of the
neurological system, because pulsed radiation, I would say, affects
mainly, at least initially, the nervous system. While the Ramazzini,
an equally large study, NTP was $28 million U.S. Ramazzini essentially
verified that even at low amplitudes, we see the same effects. And so
for a range of exposures, the literature now says that we have
evidence for bioactivity in relation to cancer. And so this is why Dr.
Anthony Miller comments that in his opinion, IARC, which classified
previously radiofrequency radiation as 2B is likely to promote to
category 1 carcinogen, because what was missing was animal evidence.
And now NTP and Ramazzini have provided that.
So frankly, this mis why I think it is unwise to, at this point in
history, to go ahead and increase the burden of electromagnetic
radiation. In essence, I know New Brunswick Power may disagree with
me, but I wish that they would not, so to speak, go in this direction
for their own benefit.
Q. - So this is the electromagnetism that comes off of these machines?
A. Yes, those are fields that are either radiated intentionally by
antennas or in the case of power systems, unintentionally. It is a
parasite essentially. The lines radiate this, but it is a loss that
would be eliminated if it were possible.
Q. - Now would this environment affect office workers to the point
that it could possibly affect their health?
A. It is a recognized disability in Sweden and in France and in Italy
that if you are affected by these fields, you employer is required to
take measures to provide a work station or a work situation where you
are not affected. Electrosensitive people represent maybe 3 or 4
percent of the population, and the extremes, the people who are truly
disabled are a smaller proportion even. But because of the nature of
the interaction with living systems, all living systems, including
bacteria, including trees, including all animals are changed when the
electromagnetic radiation environment changes.
So this is a blanket effect on biology that is brought about by
changes in your electromagnetic environment. So what this means is
that yes, there is no category that is immune to this effect. These
effects, in my opinion, have progressively increased since we have
changed the electromagnetic environment in the 1900s. Author
Firstenberg, who published a book on this, observed that in 1900s
there was very little diabetes documented. Now a large proportion of
our population is, and from my work even before my last one, I noted
that electromagnetism disturbs metabolism in a way that makes it a
good candidate to increase diabetes.
Q. - We heard that the analog meters are slipping and not reading
accurately, do they still make these analog meters that you know of?
A. This is not -- I did not go to a company myself, but on the
committee, the New Hampshire Committee, Senator -- not senator,
representative Abrami is also on the committee that deals with smart
meters, and he assured me that he has talked with manufacturers who
were quite willing to make these older devices which are essentially
very, very well designed, they are entirely passive, require no power,
and have a very long life time. They don’t provide all of the
capabilities of course of a smart meter though.
Q. - Right. Since you were here last time, it gave me a lot of
knowledge about this stuff that I wasn’t aware of. And I went to a
gentleman and I got a meter to check the radiation from my microwave,
and cell phone and tv and all that. Is there a meter that checks the
magnetism or whatever the readings are off of these smart meters
available?
A. Yes, there has been substantial progress in this area, and in fact,
the models are being updated all the time. And in view of the extended
frequency range that will be -- that might be coming with 5G, there
will be more upgrades to these meters. These meters cost about $200.
But for example, the one made by CORNET, the ET88Plus is a rather
sophisticated device that allows for less than $200 to measure ELF
fields and various categories of radio frequency fields and in fact,
log the data, over 1,000 data points can be logged over time
automatically. So whereas in the past, measurements of these fields
were more or less the province of people who had very expensive
equipment, my equipment to measure these fields cost $40,000 by Narda,
but now the commoner will have access to these measurements.
And in a sense, because the measurements will be -- the data will be
available to a lot of people, you can expect that there will be many
more challenges about exposures since it will be very, very common --
commonly available.
Q. - It was reported earlier in testimony that it is a 900 megahertz --
A. Yes, 900 megahertz.
Q. - Megahertz. What would you consider a safe level? If it goes above
900, is that dangerous, 900 okay?
A. The frequency is not really the issue. The way this works from the
point of view of living systems is that we have lived over the past 2
billion years, life has lived in the static field of the earth which
is 50 microtesla. We are inherently resistant to that field.
As well, we are resistant to radiation from the sun. But the sun emits
practically no microwave radiation. So biological systems do not
develop resistance against agents that they never meet.
So when you are introducing in the environment significant components
of new frequencies that were never there before, you run a very strong
risk that reactions will occur. And I resent very, very heavily as in
a sense a miscarriage of science the fact that we would only limit the
effects of electromagnetic fields to heat as is done by the FCC in the
United States, and as is done by Code 6 in Canada. I think those are a
very, very poor reflection on the scientific level of these
institutions.
Now the FCC is a spectrum allocation agency that if you know the
situation, is entirely dominated by industry. But governments should
have the role of ensuring public safety and at the moment, this is not
being done unfortunately. You are left to defend yourself agai
radiation.
Q. - One --
A. May I point out that it is entirely possible for power utilities to
provide power and to have all the telecommunications that we need much
more safely than we are doing now. So I think utilities could benefit
from a change that would make their power system practically immune to
the criticisms that they experience now. This is possible over a long
period of time. And cellular phones can be redesigned to reduce your
personal exposure by a factor of 100. The problem is that we have no
convinced the engineering community because of its enthusiasm and its
success in commerce to be careful about effects on humans. Those
effects are always detected later.
We have experienced this with air pollution. We didn’t believe that
air pollution was significant for our health until 1952 when 12,000
people died in London over four days, and then all of the sudden, we
realized we have to take this into account.
In 1921 when General Motors decided to introduce lead into gasoline.
This was a decision was strictly financial one, because they could not
patent ethanol. The decision was made anyway. 50 million American
children lost 10 IQ points as a result and got 20 irreversible
behavioural problems because of this decision.
Right now, we are in a position in which engineers have the techniques
to do this cleanly, to do things cleanly. What we need to do is
convince them that it has to be done and that is it. We can do it,
and I might add, profitably.
Q. - Excuse me. One last question, I mentioned earlier in this session
that we heard testimony that the smart meters have set fires in
Saskatchewan. They removed them from -- they put in 100,000, then
they ordered them taken out because of fires. And so these smart
meters, you don’t have to look at them to read them, so I suggested
that they put them on top of the hydro poles --
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. - -- and would that be a lot safer for people that lived there,
instead of having them on the side of the house?
A. Of course if they are more distant, the level of radiation will
diminish. I think it is a fairly good idea. Frankly problems with
meters catching fire are a problem of construction, and those problems
will be 18 solved. This is not, I would say, a philosophical problem.
It is a very technical problem that the utilities, I am sure, will
solve very rapidly.
But of course, if you distance users from the source of radiation, it
improves the situation. But furthermore, the link on the pole to the
network is with optical fibre, you eliminate the need for any
radiation whatsoever. You eliminate the political problems, you
eliminate technical problems. So in my opinion, I do not understand
why, when faced with challenges that are coming from the health area,
why a company would not use 5 its skill to just wipe these things off
the table.
MR. BOURQUE: That is all my questions. Thank you.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bourque. We are going to take a recess
for 15 minutes, and we will reconvene afterwards. Thank you.
(Recess)
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Stewart, any questions for this witness?
MR. STEWART: No, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. Flood, any questions for 15 this witness?
MR. FLOOD: No, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Stoll?
MR. STOLL: No, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Ms. Black?
MS. BLACK: No questions, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you. And Ms. Desmond?
MS. DESMOND: We just have a couple, Mr. Vice-Chair.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. DESMOND:
Q. - Dr. Heroux, as you are probably aware, Dr. Plante did testify in
this hearing and was also qualified as an expert. I am wondering if
you could just, at the highest level, summarize for the Board where
you see the 4 difference between how you landed at your opinion and
how Dr. Plante would have arrived at his opinion?
A. Well that is very easy. Essentially, very clearly Dr. Plante, who
is a physician, in his document says that he is using heat as the
agent that determines the threshold of damage. In my own report, I had
a table where I indicate a large number of landmarks and limits and at
the bottom is Code 6 Canada IEEE C95.1, 10 million microwatts per
square meter at the frequency actually that is a little bit higher
than the smart meter but this is the thermal limit at the very bottom.
The people who acknowledge that the fields can have effects all have
limits that are substantially lower. In other words, they believe that
humans are a lot less tolerant to electromagnetic radiation when you
acknowledge the fields themselves can impact biological system. And I
never get questions on this regrettably but my expertise is the
interaction between very small fields and critical enzymes in the
human body that can affect practically all biological processes. So
the
difference between Plante and myself is that he only recognizes the
effect that you had in a microwave oven. Everything else in his view
is impossible. What I believe is that after these effects were
documented, science solved the problem very quickly. In the Soviet
Union, in North Carolina, scientists sought interactions at non
terminal levels with metabolism, mitochondria of cells. In a human
egg, you have a third of a million of these mitochondria that are
affected by the fields. In a heart cell you have 50,000 of these
mitochondria. They are all affected by the levels of fields. In my
experiments I showed that this was at least occurring at 20 nanotesla,
which is .025 microtesla, which is very, very, very low. This
indicates that we have been for a long time influenced by this
radiation unknowingly and that science now informs us that we should
evolve to take precautionary measures.
As well, when you look at the results of the NTP, those tests were
designed to test whether what Dr. Plante is saying is true or not. In
other words, the man who designed the study of the NTP wrote an
article to confirm that the only reason why this $28 million was spent
is to determine whether heat is the only agent. And the NTP’s answer,
as is the agency for research of cancer’s answer, is that the thermal
hypothesis is wrong. And that is what science says. It doesn’t mean
that larger institutions like the Canadian government have caught up
with this reality, because as you know, society moves slowly and
society has a lot of vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
But science has been clear, even for a while, I would say that the NTP
simply follows a succession of tests on animals by (inaudible) who all
large animal studies who confirmed that this radiation cannot be seen
as only a heating agent.
MS. DESMOND: Okay. Thank you for clarifying the distinctions between
your work and Dr. Plante. Those are our questions. Thank you.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Desmond. Mr. Ervin?
BY THE BOARD:
MR. ERVIN: Dr. Heroux, I just want to clarify on a technical basis.
You make several references to the effects of electromagnetic
radiation and if I am understanding correctly, and based on my high
school physics, it is a magnetic field that surrounds a wire which is
conducting electricity. Is that your interpretation?
A. Yes.
MR. ERVIN: We heard from Dr. Plante a few days ago, that the domain of
electromagnetic radiation and radiofrequency radiation occupy two
entirely different 3 domains. Could you comment on that?
A. Yes. Essentially industry, when it wants to promote the idea that
these fields are not a substantial -- have no impact on health, they
use certain ideas that are I would say easy to put forward in front of
the public. And the first idea is that it is non-ionizing radiation.
In other words, they say if it cannot ionize molecules, it can’t do
anything. This is extremely bad science. And the reason for this is
that in your body lots of molecules are already ionized so the
question is not whether this radiation can ionize your body, it is
whether it can interact with the free charges that are already present
in your body. This is a very important distinction. And this means, to
reassure the public was used because historically it followed
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a time when we dealt with ionizing radiation
as a very important agent in our environment. So it was easy to grab
onto this idea and promote the notion that electromagnetic radiation
could not do it. But our science shows that there are free charges in
the body, electrons and protons, the same protons that you have in pH,
that can be affected in their movement, in their jump from one
molecule to the other by very, very, very small fields.
The second argument that Plante uses is that the fields are too small.
If you can believe that as a final argument in science, I have another
one for you. Viruses can’t harm you because they are too small. In
other words, the fact that the fields of the radiation from the smart
meters are not large does not mean that they cannot affect the
probability that protons or electrons move within the body. They do so
very, very well in wires, in other words, if I look at a piece of
copper, a very small field can affect the motion of electrons because
in a copper wire, electrons behave as a degenerate fermi gas. That is
what we say in physics. But there are charges within the body, in
particular in oxidative -- that are free just waiting to be affected
by electromagnetic radiation of very low values. And in fact in
engineering devices based on this principle are used to detect
magnetic fields to levels of .2 nanotesla, that are miniscule. So we
have devices that are sold that are based on the same principle that I
22 promote and other scientists promote, that confirm that this
exists. So the argument of the fact that it is small or nonionizing is
simply truncating a whole area of science that is very well accepted.
MR. ERVIN: I am not sure if I understand whether you have answered my
question or not, Dr. Heroux. The difference between electromagnetic
and radiofrequency radiation, and I think you speak about the impacts
of electromagnetic radiation. But my understanding of the radiation
that is emitted by smart meters and cell phones and such is more in
the field of radiofrequency radiation.
A. Those are the same things in a sense, electromagnetic radiation
encompasses the whole spectrum. When you talk about your
radiofrequency radiation, you are talking about a piece of that
electromagnetic radiation as distinguished from extra low frequency
radiation. So it is simply a different name to focus on the part of
the spectrum.
MR. ERVIN: The evidence of Dr. Plante also notes the differences in
frequencies. You know, one spectrum or frequency is all the light we
can see, for example, that is a form of electromagnet -- electro or
radiofrequency radiation?
A. Yes.
MR. ERVIN: You mentioned I think that the energy -- at least the
visible energy emitted by the sun can do us no harm. Well I am her to
tell you that I have many many sun burns, but at the ultraviolet
level, I understand that that is a major cause of skin cancer, for
example.
A. Yes. You are right. The properties of electromagnetic radiation,
the interaction with biological systems changes with frequency.
However, it is true that you can get sun burn but if you had not been
civilized in the last 100 years living frequently indoors, maybe sun
burning would be less of a problem. And if we even have the lifespan
that we have right now, of 70 plus years, perhaps getting skin cancer
would be less of a problem. My point is that natural radiation from
the sun is an agent that we inevitable become resistant to. In other
words, life evolves to eliminate the subjects or the processes that
are very vulnerable to our environment. The problem comes when we
introduce new types of radiation that no living system has ever had
the chance to see before. So in this situation you have to be
cautious, examine things very carefully and the examination of science
has pointed out that in spite of the incredible success of
electrification, the incredible success of telecommunications, we
should apply precautions to the level at which we expose ourselves.
Otherwise, we will pay a price in cancers and in chronic diseases. And
my point is that we can avoid this problem if only we are willing to
move in that direction. And you will not have to forego your cell
phone. We will just redesign it, we will change the standards and we
will have something that works perfectly well and is perfectly safe.
In the question that occupies you, in my opinion, technically we can
avoid the radiation while providing New Brunswick Power with the data
that they want. So I think technically this problem is solvable. But
health-wise it is a durable impact if we deploy a system like this
that is because of the internet of things, I guess you have heard of
that, is destined to grow and grow substantially. So I think that a
strong optical fibre network, in fact there are many people in the
United States who believe that utilities should be providing data
because they go into every home, why don’t they go into every home
with optical fibre as well. This solves the problem of radiation.
Wireless should be used for mobility, but for data transfer, there is
nothing better than optical fibre. It is a million times faster than
5G optical fibre. This is something that is technically immensely
valuable. We can do it now, why not.
MR. ERVIN: Thank you. Those are all my questions.
DR. HEROUX: Thank you for these questions. I don’t get to answer
questions like that very often. It is very satisfying to me.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Dr. Heroux, I have one question. What is more dangerous
between a cell phone and an AMI?
A. Well the cell phone is demonstrated by tests that are very
contemporary to generate cancers of the nervous system in rats and in
mice. Repeatedly over the years, since 1992, we have big studies of
that. The difference between a cell phone and an AMI is that first the
cell phone you can decide whether you are going to use it or not. You
can use it on the table and you can -- I don’t advise that -- against
your head. You can use it with an ear tube. You can use it very
little. You can use it in emergencies. And AMI is around you all the
time whether you want it or not. So it is a situation in which you are
contrived to be exposed to radiation. I mentioned that some people are
very, very susceptible to this radiation. I think it is highly unjust
to impose this on them. But if I had to choose between the two sources
of radiation, I would think that the AMI has less impact than the cell
phone but not my cell phone because my cell phone is out of battery
most of the time. I carry it around and if I need it, even I charge
it. So there is a way to use a cell phone that is very, very low
exposure. But if somebody puts an AMI in your house, you no longer
have a choice. It is an intervention by an external agent that leaves
you no alternative.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Dr. Richard, Docteur Richard vous avez
l’opportunité de poser des questions à la suite des questions qui ont
été posées par les parties, donc est-ce que vous avez des questions
que vous aimeriez poser à Docteur Héroux faisant suite aux questions
qui ont été posé?
DR. RICHARD: Pas vraiment. Je pense que Docteur Héroux a été très clair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Ok. Parfait. Merci. Docteur Héroux j’aimerais vous
remercié pour votre participation dans l’audience. Vous êtes excusé.
WITNESS: Merci beaucoup.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Merci beaucoup. Docteur Richard je crois 19 que ça
complète tous vos témoins?
MR. RICHARD: Oui, c’est ca.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Merci. I guess we are now with your 22 witnesses, Ms. Black. 2
MS. BLACK: Thank you,
From: "Mitton, Megan (LEG)" <Megan.Mitton@gnb.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:01:01 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: RE "Not So Smart" Meters versus 100 million
loonies Methinks the silence of CBC, Higgy, Minister Mikey Holland and
all your political and media cohorts spoke volumes N'esy Pas Mr.Jones?
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Thank you for contacting me. This response is to assure you that your
message has been received. I welcome and appreciate receiving comments
and questions from constituents.
All emails are reviewed on a regular basis, however due to the high
volume of emails my office receives, I may not be able to respond
personally to each one.
For media requests, please call: 506-429-2285.
---
Merci de m'avoir contacté. Ce courriel a pour but de vous assurer que
votre message a bien été reçu. Je vous invite à me faire part de vos
commentaires et de vos questions.
Tous les courriels sont révisés régulièrement, mais en raison du
volume élevé de courriels que mon bureau reçoit, il se peut que je ne
sois pas en mesure de répondre personnellement à chacun.
Pour les demandes des médias, veuillez appeler: 506-429-2285.
Megan Mitton
Member of the Legislative Assembly/Députée
Memramcook - Tantramar
megan.mitton@gnb.ca
506-378-1565
---------- Original message ----------
From: "Carr, Jeff Hon. (ELG/EGL)" <Jeff.Carr@gnb.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:01:03 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: RE "Not So Smart" Meters versus 100 million
loonies Methinks the silence of CBC, Higgy, Minister Mikey Holland and
all your political and media cohorts spoke volumes N'esy Pas Mr.Jones?
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Thank you for your email. Your thoughts, comments and input are greatly valued.
You can be assured that all emails and letters are carefully read,
reviewed and taken into consideration.
There may be occasions when, given the issues you have raised and the
need to address them effectively, we will forward a copy of your
correspondence to the appropriate government official. Accordingly, a
response may take several business days.
If your request is Constituency related, please contact Rose Ann at my
Constituency office in Fredericton Junction at RoseAnn.Smith@gnb.ca or
by phone at 506-368-2938.
Thanks again for your email.
______
Merci pour votre courriel. Nous vous sommes très reconnaissants de
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Merci encore pour votre courriel.
---------- Original message ----------
From: "Harrison, Wanda" <WHarrison@nbpower.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:01:06 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: EXT - RE "Not So Smart" Meters versus 100
million loonies Methinks the silence of CBC, Higgy, Minister Mikey
Holland and all your political and media cohorts spoke volumes N'esy
Pas Mr.Jones?
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
I am currently out of the office with no access to my email.
Please contact Joanne Regan at jregan@nbpower.com or 458-3711 for any issues.
Thank you
________________________________
This e-mail communication (including any or all attachments) is
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---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 07:00:56 -0400
Subject: RE "Not So Smart" Meters versus 100 million loonies Methinks
the silence of CBC, Higgy, Minister Mikey Holland and all your
political and media cohorts spoke volumes N'esy Pas Mr.Jones?
To: "Robert. Jones" <Robert.Jones@cbc.ca>, "Holland, Mike (LEG)"
<mike.holland@gnb.ca>, lclark@nbpower.com,
colleen.dentremont@
<Bill.Morneau@canada.ca>, premier <premier@ontario.ca>, Office of the
Premier <scott.moe@gov.sk.ca>, premier <premier@gov.ab.ca>
Cc: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
<wharrison@nbpower.com>, gthomas <gthomas@nbpower.com>,
Andrea.AndersonMason@gnb.ca, jesse <jesse@viafoura.com>, news
<news@dailygleaner.com>, nben@nben.ca, premier <premier@gnb.ca>,
"blaine.higgs" <blaine.higgs@gnb.ca>, "dominic.leblanc.c1"
<dominic.leblanc.c1@parl.gc.ca>, "Dominic.Cardy"
<Dominic.Cardy@gnb.ca>, "jeff.carr" <jeff.carr@gnb.ca>,
oldmaison@yahoo.com, andre <andre@jafaust.com>,
"Ginette.PetitpasTaylor" <Ginette.PetitpasTaylor@parl.
"Sherry.Wilson" <Sherry.Wilson@gnb.ca>, "Ross.Wetmore"
<Ross.Wetmore@gnb.ca>, megan.mitton@gnb.ca, "David.Coon"
<David.Coon@gnb.ca>, "Arseneau, Kevin (LEG)"
<Kevin.A.Arseneau@gnb.ca>, Newsroom <Newsroom@globeandmail.com>,
Nathalie Sturgeon <sturgeon.nathalie@
"steve.murphy" <steve.murphy@ctv.ca>, "nick.brown"
<nick.brown@gnb.ca>, "robert.mckee" <robert.mckee@gnb.ca>,
"Kevin.Vickers" <Kevin.Vickers@gnb.ca>, "Tim.RICHARDSON"
<Tim.RICHARDSON@gnb.ca>, "Trevor.Holder" <Trevor.Holder@gnb.ca>,
"rick.desaulniers" <rick.desaulniers@gnb.ca>, "michelle.conroy"
<michelle.conroy@gnb.ca>, "Mike.Comeau" <Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca>, "carl.
davies" <carl.davies@gnb.ca>, "carl.urquhart" <carl.urquhart@gnb.ca>,
"Cathy.Rogers" <Cathy.Rogers@gnb.ca>, "robert.gauvin"
<robert.gauvin@gnb.ca>, "Roger.L.Melanson" <roger.l.melanson@gnb.ca>,
"Roger.Brown" <Roger.Brown@fredericton.ca>, "ron.tremblay2"
<ron.tremblay2@gmail.com>, philippe@dunsky.com,
Steven_Reid3@carleton.ca, "darrow.macintyre"
<darrow.macintyre@cbc.ca>, "Chuck.Thompson" <Chuck.Thompson@cbc.ca>,
"sylvie.gadoury" <sylvie.gadoury@radio-canada.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Harrison, Wanda" <WHarrison@nbpower.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 00:04:16 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: EXT - Too Too Funny Methinks the LIEbranos
could use a little Deja Vu N'esy Pas Ross Wetmore?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
I am currently out of the office with no access to my email.
Please contact Joanne Regan at jregan@nbpower.com or 458-3711 for any issues.
Thank you
________________________________
This e-mail communication (including any or all attachments) is
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you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any use, review,
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and any printout thereof, immediately. Your co-operation is
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et d'?liminer l'original du courriel, ainsi que toute copie
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reconnaissants de votre collaboration.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 09:18:46 -0400
Subject: Attn Lori Clark Why do yo keep asking Roger Richard if I will
be attending the EUB hearing?
To: lclark@nbpower.com, colleen.dentremont@
Cc: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Obviously I am not there today nor am I coming so the Saint John cops
can quit hanging around the meeting rooms at the Delta looking for me
and do something important like catching crooks If you wish to speak
to me I have no doubt that Colleen Dentremont saved my cell number
after she finally called me back last week
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Harrison, Wanda" <WHarrison@nbpower.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 12:21:19 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: EXT - Methinks Jacky Boy Keir and his
LIEbrano cohorts are too Happy Happy Happy these days to suit some
folks N'esy Pas Minister Mikey Holland?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
I am currently out of the office with no access to my email.
Please contact Joanne Regan at jregan@nbpower.com or 458-3711 for any issues.
Thank you
________________________________
This e-mail communication (including any or all attachments) is
intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is
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you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any use, review,
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strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
contact the sender and delete the original and any copy of this e-mail
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Le pr?sent courriel (y compris toute pi?ce jointe) s'adresse
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https://davidraymondamos3.
Tuesday, 21 January 2020
Smart meter critics change tone on NB Power's new business case
https://twitter.com/
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 49 others
Methinks folks should thank Dr. Roger Richard He went to a great deal
of effort and expense to bring Dr. Paul Heroux and Dr. Francis
Tatoutchoup before the EUB to speak in defense of our interests N'esy
Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.
#nbpoli #cdnpol
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
Smart meter critics change tone on NB Power's new business case
Outside energy consultants say tweaked plan ‘a good business case’
Robert Jones · CBC News · Posted: Jan 21, 2020 6:00 AM AT
NB Power's $92-million smart meter plan has been under the microscope
during EUB hearings this month. (Robert Jones/CBC)
NB Power's $92-million plan to buy and deploy smart meters in New
Brunswick got a late endorsement Monday from a pair of consultants
unconnected to the utility who had lobbed early criticisms at the
project — a change in tone not lost on at least one Energy and
Utilities Board member who will soon be deciding its fate.
"Both of you there just gave some compliments to NB Power on their
business case. So you think this is a well-prepared business case?"
asked EUB member Michael Costello during the testimony of Philip
Diodomenico and Kathleen Kelly, consultants with Daymark Energy
Advisors Inc. of Worcester, Mass.
Diodomenico and Kelly were hired by public intervener Heather Black to
independently review NB Power's smart meter plan and told Costello
despite some shortcomings it is a much better proposal than they have
dealt with elsewhere
"Generally, the business case is a good business case," said Diodomenico.
U.S. energy experts Philip Diodomenico and Kathleen Kelly gave NB
Power high marks for its smart meter plan on the final day of witness
testimony, despite being critical in a November report. (CBC)
"It's made good use of outside consultants and expertise. It's taken a
conservative approach in a number of areas, not everywhere, but in a
number of areas. Yeah, so it's a good business case."
Kelly said although NB Power might be underestimating expenses and
overestimating benefits of its smart meter plan by several millions of
dollars, it still looks to be a solid investment.
"We've tried to take some of the assumptions and expand them and make
them more conservative to make ourselves more comfortable with it,"
said Kelly.
"We've reduced the benefit cost ratio, but we haven't seen it go to
one [break even] or lower."
EUB member Michael Costello is one of three who will decide the fate
of NB Power's smart meter plan and was struck by compliments it was
getting from experts hired by the public intervener. (CBC)
Black recommended against the adoption of NB Power's smart meter plan
during the utility's first application in 2018 and, although she has
expressed no personal opinion on the matter so far this time, her
experts gave the utility's case an important boost at a critical time.
The two said they would not recommend against the project moving
forward if NB Power expands on a risk assessment of things that could
go wrong and how they might be fixed and develops acceptable ways to
measure whether the meters are accomplishing predetermined goals.
New Brunswick public intervener Heather Black opposed NB Power's smart
meter application in 2018, but experts she hired for the current
application are giving it high marks. (CBC)
Diodomenico and Kelly were the final two witnesses to be called during
the hearing, which has lasted six days and moves to final arguments on
Wednesday.
Extent of financial benefits questioned
NB Power has presented evidence suggesting its acquisition of 360,000
smart meters will provide 16 financial benefits that together will
exceed the projected cost of the project by $31.1 million over 15
years.
Although Diodomenico and Kelly said that net benefit number is
probably too high, it's likely not zero, something a second
independent expert was less certain of.
Alice Napoleon, a senior associate with Synapse Energy Economics of
Cambridge, Mass., also testified Monday.
A third U.S.-based energy expert who testified Monday about NB Power's
smart meter plan was less flattering. Alice Napoleon was hired by the
EUB and testified over the phone the proposal is risky for NB Power
customers and may cost more than it makes. (Synapse Energy Economics)
Synapse was hired to independently evaluate the smart meter plan as
well, but by the Energy and Utilities Board itself.
Napoleon told the board it is unclear from her analysis — because of
vagueness in NB Power's numbers — whether the project will be a
financial benefit or liability in the long run.
"We find that NB Power has presented a proposal that, under plausible
conditions, would result in benefits to ratepayers," said Napoleon in
her opening statement.
"Under alternative but still plausible conditions, the proposed AMI
(advanced metering infrastructure) plan might not provide net benefits
to customers."
Intervener raises health concerns
Also testifying Monday was McGill University lecturer Paul Heroux, who
was called by intervener Roger Richard, a staunch opponent of smart
meters.
Heroux said his research shows that even low levels of radiation, like
from radio frequencies that will be constantly emitted by smart
meters, pose a health hazard to humans.
NB Power rate used to justify smart meters 'low,' says expert
Expert says true smart meter value won't emerge until after they're approved
"We have been for a long time influenced by this radiation
unknowingly," said Heroux.
Earlier in the hearing, Dr. Michele Plant, a witness for NB Power,
testified there was "no carcinogenic risk" from radio waves or
frequencies at "an exposure level thousands of times higher than those
measured near a smart meter."
In the hearing two years ago, the EUB ruled it could find no credible
evidence that smart meters posed any health risks.
CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices
70 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Raymond Amos
Methinks Higgy and Minister Mikey would agree that their silence on
this topic speaks volumes to political animals such as I. For a year
they could have picked up the phone to stop this "Not So Smart" Meter
madness and saved us 100 million loonies in the process. Instead the
conservatives opted to roll the dice and leave the matter in the hands
of EUB Commissioners all of whom are politically appointed liberal
buddies. Its a wicked game and I am very curious as to how it will
play out but I have no doubt whatsoever Jacky Boy Keir already knows
N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: "Intervener raises health concerns Also
testifying Monday was McGill University lecturer Paul Heroux, who was
called by intervener Roger Richard, a staunch opponent of smart
meters."
Go Figure
NEW BRUNSWICK ENERGY and UTILITIES BOARD
Matter 452
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation for
approval and Advanced Metering Infrastructure capital project
Held at the Delta Hotel, Saint John, N.B. on January 20th 2020.
Page 880
Q. - Oui merci. Si la Commission accepterait les compteurs
intelligents et le compte de report en ce qui concerne l’amortissement
de leur valeur comptables restant des compteurs d’électricité
actuellement installes d’Énergie Nouveau Brunswick, est-ce que cela
affecterait votre travail ou votre revenu?
A. Non.
Q. - Merci. Depuis quand on se connait, vous et moi?
A. On s’est connu il y a plusieurs visages qui sont familiers. J’étais
dans la session précédente, il y a un ou deux relativement à la même
question, j’étais ici. Vous étiez là. Monsieur Furey, je le reconnais.
DR. RICHARD: Merci. Monsieur le président, je demande respectueusement
à la Commission de reconnaitre Docteur Héroux expert dans la
technologie des ondes.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Donc c’est un peu différente de ce que vous avez envoyé
par courrier électronique. Si je relis votre courrier électronique que
vous avez envoyé aux parties, Docteur Richard, vous avez l’intention,
dans ce moment-là de le reconnait comme un expert en tant que
physicien chercheur dans les technologies des ondes. Est-ce que vous
mainteniez cette…
DR. RICHARD: Oui
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay, merci. So there is -- I am just wondering if
there is anybody who is objecting to the qualification of Dr. Heroux
in the area of expertise that Dr. Richard has suggested? So hearing
nothing, Dr. Heroux will be recognized -- and I will say this in
French -- Comme un expert en tant que physicien chercheur dans la
technologie des ondes. Docteur Richard?
Q. - Oui, merci. Madame Mitchell si vous pouvez remettre le document
RR 1.03. Merci. Si je comprends bien monsieur le président, Docteur
Héroux a droit à un opening statement?
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Oui Docteur Richard, et j’aimerais juste vous rappelez
Docteur Héroux que vous n’avez pas besoin de nous relater votre
rapport. On l’a lu. On a pris connaissance de votre rapport. Si vous
voulez donner peut-être juste un sommaire de vos conclusions. À ce
moment-là, lorsque vous avez donné ça, les parties vont pouvoir vous
contre-interroger sur le rapport.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
MR. FUREY: Excuse me, Mr. Vice-Chair. We have been provided with no
opening statement.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: No, he is not giving an opening statement, Mr. Furey.
He is just providing a conclusion of his report -- a short conclusion
of what his report is.
DR. HEROUX: So I have a number of pages and on the first page I talk
about the potential advantages of smart meters. Then on the second
page I talk about the fact that meters, when installed, could become a
significant source of exposure beyond what is initially intended. Then
I talk about the difference between heat, recognizing heat only as an
agent, versus recognizing the field as a biologically active agent and
how I would say companies have avoided recognizing fields and only
recognize heat and I talk as well about the fact that recent research,
the National Toxicology Program, the Ramazzini Institute have changed
the situation and that -- also that it is likely that the public
health community will change its recommendations in the very near
future in relation to biological impact. That smart meters are special
in the sense that most people can choose to avoid exposures from cell
phones or from other devices, but that a smart meter is sort of
blanket imposed on a number of people, that this question is important
to -- is well known in society that epidemiologists are detecting that
some increases in diseases are occurring and that the pattern of
damage that is seen in animal models is not compatible with the
engineering view that is based on heat.Is that short enough?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Autre choses Docteur Richard avant que
votre témoin soit contre-interroger?
DR. RICHARD: Non.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Ok merci.
Mr. Furey, I am just wondering how long you are going to be? It is
getting close to a morning break and if you anticipate to be --
MR. FUREY: I have no questions, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you. Mr. Bourque, do you have any questions
for this witness?
MR. BOURQUE: Yes, I do.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Can you move forward please?
MR. BOURQUE: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BOURQUE:
Q. - The first question is what is the health implications for
children and pregnant women that stay at home all day?
A. Well I do promote the idea that in schools, for example, we should
not use wifi because of experimental evidence that we have on
modifications seen in the brains of rats following exposures to wifi.
And as you know, the radiation from smart meters is not very different
from that of wifi. So contrary to the report of Dr. Plante who does
not believe that the electrosensitive people are real, I believe that
they are very real, that they are only a small fraction of the
population but that chronic exposure to these fields from smart
meters, either alone or in combination, because of the length of
exposure, can have an effect that is physiological and perhaps even
irreversible. So I believe that this is a serious question and you may
be aware that a number of countries in the world already, it is
forbidden to use wifi near very young children. So when you were
talking about brains in development, a number of connections are being
made that are -- that depend on very delicate processes that can be
influenced, in my opinion, by electronic waves.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
Q. - Thank you. Would this have an effect on the elderly also that are
confined to, you know, homes, that can’t get out?
A. Yes. I don’t know if you have been given a copy of my most recent
publication relating to oxygen and magnetic fields? Has this been
provided, Dr. Richard?
DR. RICHARD: Non malheureusement je ne l’ai pas déposé.
A. A just completed work --
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So if it is not in the public record before us, Dr.
Heroux, I would ask you not to comment on it.
WITNESS: So I would not comment on the publication but can I comment
on the work leading to the publication or --
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Well if it is not before us, it is hard for us to
understand what was written and to have the parties to question on it
so, no, I would ask you not to comment on it.
WITNESS: Then to answer the question is that there is a large body of
literature that is not connected to me that already exists, that says
that exposure to electromagnetic radiation increases free radicals.
Maybe you know what free radicals are. Those are molecules that are
activated in the body that can create damage and there is a very
substantial literature that says that exposure to electromagnetic
radiation, even at low intensities, can increase the amount of free
radicals in the body.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
Free radicals, by physiologists, are implicated in a large number of
chronic diseases. In other words, you may not feel these effects
immediately but you will feel them later either by increases in the
rates of disease or by diseases progressing more quickly. This is what
free radicals are understood to do. And they do this in very, I would
say important diseases, for example, in diabetes, which is 25 percent
of your health budget, in things like Alzheimer’s and in Parkinson’s.
And indeed there are people who promote the idea that these individual
diseases are connected with electromagnetic radiation exposures and
these connections are observed not only with cell phones, but they are
observed with even proximity to a cell tower, which is if you live
within 500 meters of a cell tower, that is low field intensities, we
observe health changes in relation to this. So this was essentially
confirmed not only by epidemiology in the field, but also by the data
of the Ramazzini Institute which was released at the same time as the
National toxicology program that studied the -- I would say the
effects of cell phones.
David Raymond Amos
Methinks a lot of folks should thank my friend Dr. Roger Richard
At the very least Minister Mikey Holland and his political cohorts
cannot deny that my friend went to a great deal of effort and expense
to bring the expert witnesses Dr. Paul Heroux and Dr. Francis
Tatoutchoup before the EUB to speak in defense of our rights and
interests AGAIN N'esy Pas?
BruceJack Speculator
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: let's wait to see if the effort was
successful . . .
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @BruceJack Speculator: Methinks that person who does not have
enough class to use his real name should at least thank your neighbor
for trying to defend what you hold so dearly in your wallet N'esy Pas?
BruceJack Speculator
Reply to @BruceJack Speculator: was that the guy talking about radio
waves or something? what about the hazard from 60 hertz power itself
all 24 hours . . . what about the use of cell phones or in-house
portable phones . . . for a smart meter why not just put a metal
shield on the wall behind it ? would that protect the residents? maybe
wear a hat with a metal shield and save oneself from all other types
of E-M radiation too? who could a person thank if they don't know
really why the expert was testifying and perhaps the chance for a
personal gain? let's wait to see if the effort is successful and see
if there is any way to determine why the person intervened?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @BruceJack Speculator: Methinks folks should understand why
you don't use your real name N'esy Pas?
Justin Time
From a previous CBC article.
"A recently revived Energy and Utilities Board review is examining
potentially extreme pricing changes that would shift more cost to
residential consumers in New Brunswick with electric heat and move
other residential consumption to lower demand periods.
The so-called "rate design" initiative could eventually result in
premium prices for consumers in high-demand periods, discounts during
lulls, special charges for peak monthly consumption levels, known as
demand charges, or other measures or combinations of measures designed
to reshape New Brunswick electricity demand. "
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
This same Brattle group also promotes the benefits of smart meters .
What a coincidence.
Residental customers are going to take it again.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: Methinks Minister Mikey knows that I will have
a lot to say Brattle Group's report when the EUB finally holds the
hearing about it that has been delayed since December N'esy Pas?
Justin Time
There's one big assumption that has been made that I don't think has
been sufficiently addressed. Customer acceptance and customer
benefits/detriments. If enough customers opt out then the grand plan
may not meet expectations.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: I must disagree with ye who has a name I do not believe
I do so because I try considering things in extremes
Methinks if everybody opted out then NB Power would make a rather huge
profit collecting our penalties monthly yet it would not have to spend
a dime on "Not So Smart" meters because nobody wanted them in the
first place N'esy Pas
Justin Time
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: We can't get much by you can we.
I think there may be a chance quite a few people opt out of smart
meters unless they can be shown that there is a personal financial
benefit to them. However, I think that the chance of NB Power not
spending a dime on smart meters is next to zero. N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: Methinks everybody knows NB Power already
signed the contracts to get the "Not So Smart" meters This is a just
smoke and mirror show at the circus brought to us by spin doctors from
south of the 49th This article attests to the fact that it has become
rather obvious that our so called "Public" intervener and her Yankee
consultants have changed their tune and she is now working against our
interests N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: Trust that I made certain that Higgy and his
cohorts knew about this "Not So Smart" Meter nonsense long before the
last election
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation
for approval of the schedules of the rates for the fiscal year
commencing April 1, 2018. held at the Delta Hotel, Saint John, New
Brunswick, on February 9th 2018.
Transcript Page 601
VICE-CHAIRMAN: I was a bit surprised when I heard this morning and
yesterday that you are entering into a contract at the end of February
and is that with respect to the purchase of the smart meters?
MS. CLARK: That's correct.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So how can you enter into a contract without the firm
approval of this Board, if we are going to approve or not the AMI? How
prudent is that?
MS. CLARK: So we are at the end stages of the contract in terms of
just the final terms and conditions, but we have been very clear that
we -- with the vendor -- and they recognize that, because we also have
Nova Scotia Power, who is part of our consortium, who also needs Board
approval. So should we not get -- this is conditional on EUB approval.
So should we not get EUB approval, the contract would not proceed.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now there was discussion yesterday, I think it was with
Mr. Stoll regarding time of use and time based pricing, and so I went
through the evidence this morning, and in your main evidence, and I
think one of the objective of having the AMI going forward to a time
of use price structure -- rate structure. So am I understanding that
correctly
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: Continued
MS. CLARK: That is correc. And in the evidence, we did answer an
interrogatory on that and you will see that AMI is an enabler for time
varying rates in the Energy Smart NB Plan. And we did have time
varying rates included in our investment rationale. We took it out,
because we couldn't -- we couldn't pinpoint without more detail as to
what those time varying rates may be and the benefit of those, so we
took them out of the investment rationale at this point in time, but
certainly it's something that we are looking at in the future
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So the fundamental question here is that the Board
should heard -- or hear Matter 357 before approving the AMI? So if we
don't approve time of use, that basically what will happen with your
AMI, I mean it's -- if we don't approve the time of use, which we are
going to hear next year, how can we proceed in approving the AMI
before we look at the rate structure?
MS. CLARK: As we have talked about in our investment rationale, there
are a number of other benefits to both the customer and to the utility
over and above time varying rates that we believe are important for
the utility and for the movement forward of our Energy Smart New
Brunswick plan. Many of those benefits accrue to the customer. And
many of those benefits accrue to the utility and ultimately the
customer. So even if we were not to move in the direction of time
varying rates, we believe that the investment rationale supports the
AMI installation based on the other investment -- or based on the
other benefits that it provides
Justin Gunther
If you're a crown corp in a representative democracy, and you propose
something that citizens clearly don't want, what do you do? You keep
hiring experts to say the same thing over and over again and until the
citizenry is worn down and decides it can no longer invest time and
energy in defending itself.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Justin Gunther: One too many "and's", apologies still on my
first coffee.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Me Too but my coffee has gone cold because I
am enjoying the circus too much today. Methinks a lot of folks are
gonna enjoy the closing arguments tomorrow N'esy Pas?
DON MOFFATT
Reply to @Justin Gunther: I seem to recall someone from history that
used that tactic. Keep telling people the same thing over and over
again and eventually they will think it is the truth. This person used
it a lot in the 1930's and 1940's until he committed suicide.
Roy Nicholl
I have always wondered why they need to use meters with wireless
communications given the meter is connected to a perfectly fine
network over which data could be transmitted.
Steve Cohen
Reply to @Roy Nicholl: which "perfectly fine network" are you referring to?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Roy Nicholl: BINGO
Ben Haroldson
Must have got them in on the butter too
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: NOPE Methinks everybody knows that Cardy and
Higgy have the market cornered on Butter Tarts N'esy Pas?
April Foster
Having looked at the fiasco in Saskatchewan and Ontario, they should
not even be looking at smart meters. If this is supposed to reduce the
rate of consumption, how does NB Power ever expect to recover their
investment? You got it, INCREASE RATES. As for using only in off peak
hours are you ready to freeze in winter and sweat it out in summer. I
think not.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @April Foster: Methinks if you have read the EUB transcripts
in this matter then you should be a fan of the former leader of the
KISS Party N'esy Pas?
Paul Bourgoin
Is this OK?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin: NOPE
Alex Butt
This whole EUB is just a circus show put on by the government and nb
power. Mr Thomas will get his way and when this fails, and millions
wasted he will be long gone and we are stuck paying for it for
decades. Just like the magic joi bean scandal.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Alex Butt: Welcome to the cirus
John Valcourt
This is a crock. NBPower is going to do everything they can to get
these smart meters installed. There is no cost savings to New
Brunswickers it is just the first step towards prime time billing so
it will give the New Brunswick citizen owned corporation more money
that they can waste. It is time to stop them.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @John Valcourt: Methinks you are not alone with that opinion
The question is Minister Mikey and his boss Higgy or their PANB pals
paying attention N'esy Pas?
Justin Time
This whole smart meter thing could become an election issue even
bigger than the failed Hydro Quebec sale.People get upset when you
start hitting their pocketbook and it looks like this will be
inevitable in order to make this whole smart meter thing work. With
the number of residential customers in this province the payback is
questionable. Some studies show a minimum customer base of 1 million
in order to reap the benefits of smart meters. We don't have that many
people, let alone electricity customers.
Roy Kirk
Reply to @Justin Time: The better way is to use monthly consumption
data to estimate mean and variation about mean for each customer over
their prior years use and use those numbers to classify them. Those
with relatively stable monthly consumption go in a low-cost rate
class, those that show greater variation in their energy consumption
go in classes with higher rates. Those who improve their performance
get automatically moved to the lower rate class when their numbers
show the improvement, and they stay there as long as they perform at
that level. Nice predictable billing for the customer and eliminates
the subsidies that small residential users with stable consumption now
pay to cover the cost of larger residential customers that cost more
to serve than they pay in rates.
The net result is much fairer rates for customers and good price
signals for customer investments. All without a 90+ million capital
investment. But benefits without costs just aren't in the wheelhouse
of most utilities. ;-(
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Justin Time: Methinks everybody knows before the last
election the liberal appointed board did not say ok to "Not So Smart"
meters and Gallant promised to freeze Nb Power's rates just like
Alward did However as soon as Higgy and the PANB took over the mandate
NB Power made another stab at the Metter Madness and have been begging
to rate hikes even though their profit have never been better. So of
course this will be an election issue N'esy Pas
Dan Flanagan
There is a big imbalance between daytime electricity demand &
nighttime demand. A utility has to build its grit for peak demand
& at night the infrastructure is at an idle-----very inefficient.
With pricing policies that encourage off-peak use (dish & cloth
washers, industrial use), we will can avoid building more plants or
buying from out-of-province suppliers. Whether or not I save money, at
least we're doing something for the planet.
Roy Kirk
Reply to @Dan Flanagan: Actually, the big imbalance is between winter
peak demand and summer demand, as the data clear shows. The day night
swing is not insignificant, but it is not the biggest problem on the
system and doesn't justify 90 million investment when most of the
benefit can be gained with existing meters. 'Do what you can with the
equipment you have before you by new equipment' is always good advice.
Dan Flanagan
Reply to @Roy Kirk: Agreed, seasonal variation is bigger than daily
variation. That being said, the only economy I see is to use more
electricity at night & less during peak time; you can't get that
advantage on seasonal usage. Bear in mind, peak US electricity use is
June when AC is in full swing, good for NB generation.
Roy Kirk
Reply to @Dan Flanagan: You can adopt a rate design that uses
existing meters and gives a much better price signal to customers.
That should be done before considering any new meter investment. It'll
work on the summer/winter discrepancy in load, and also the diurnal
load variation that is quite large in winter because of diurnal
outside air temperature swings. Then you can use all that excess
capacity for export sales
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Dan Flanagan: And we can do a lot for the planet by using
that night-time excess power capacity to recharge electric vehicles.
NB Power saves $92 million and gets new night-time customers. Win-Win.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Dan Flanagan @Fred Brewer: A little Deja Vu 4 U 2
NB Power launches PR campaign for revived smart meter plan
The utility plans to reintroduce its smart meter plan for approval
later this year
Hadeel Ibrahim · CBC News · Posted: Jan 10, 2019 7:19 PM AT
Fred Brewer
@Dan Flanagan
Your vigorous defense of NB Power sounds like you might have a vested interest.
Perhaps you are an employee or related to an employee?
Dan Flanagan
@Fred Brewer
I'm retired. No relatives at or business with NB Power & never
worked for them. I don't think NB P is out to screw the consumer. I
feel utilities need to have enough revenue to provide for the future
& be competitive & efficient. But smart meters should save
many users money. Remember, the gov't has control over rate increases.
I trust NB Power more than the government.
David Amos
@Dan Flanagan Whereas you are retired consider studying the
transcripts of the EUB Hearings about Smart Meters etc
Gerry Ferguson
I don't want one on my house.
Dan Flanagan
@Gerry Ferguson
WHY ?
David Amos
@Dan Flanagan "WHY ?"
Methinks you should talk to Roger Richard or me if you truly care.
Everybody knows that our contact information is on record within the
375 and the 357 matters of the EUB N'esy Pas?
Roger Richard
@Dan Flanagan Read Dr. Héroux testimony in NBEUB’s matter #375. It is
in the fourth, fifth or sixth days of the hearin
David Raymond Amos
Surprise Surprise Surprise
NEW BRUNSWICK ENERGY and UTILITIES BOARD
Matter 452
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation for
approval and Advanced Metering Infrastructure capital project
Held at the Delta Hotel, Saint John, N.B. on January 20th 2020.
Page 880
Q. - Oui merci. Si la Commission accepterait les compteurs
intelligents et le compte de report en ce qui concerne l’amortissement
de leur valeur comptables restant des compteurs d’électricité
actuellement installes d’Énergie Nouveau Brunswick, est-ce que cela
affecterait votre travail ou votre revenu?
A. Non.
Q. - Merci. Depuis quand on se connait, vous et moi?
A. On s’est connu il y a plusieurs visages qui sont familiers. J’étais
dans la session précédente, il y a un ou deux relativement à la même
question, j’étais ici. Vous étiez là. Monsieur Furey, je le reconnais.
DR. RICHARD: Merci. Monsieur le président, je demande respectueusement
à la Commission de reconnaitre Docteur Héroux expert dans la
technologie des ondes.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Donc c’est un peu différente de ce que vous avez envoyé
par courrier électronique. Si je relis votre courrier électronique que
vous avez envoyé aux parties, Docteur Richard, vous avez l’intention,
dans ce moment-là de le reconnait comme un expert en tant que
physicien chercheur dans les technologies des ondes. Est-ce que vous
mainteniez cette…
DR. RICHARD: Oui.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay, merci. So there is -- I am just wondering if
there is anybody who is objecting to the qualification of Dr. Heroux
in the area of expertise that Dr. Richard has suggested? So hearing
nothing, Dr. Heroux will be recognized -- and I will say this in
French -- Comme un expert en tant que physicien chercheur dans la
technologie des ondes. Docteur Richard?
Q. - Oui, merci. Madame Mitchell si vous pouvez remettre le document
RR 1.03. Merci. Si je comprends bien monsieur le président, Docteur
Héroux a droit à un opening statement?
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Oui Docteur Richard, et j’aimerais juste vous rappelez
Docteur Héroux que vous n’avez pas besoin de nous relater votre
rapport. On l’a lu. On a pris connaissance de votre rapport. Si vous
voulez donner peut-être juste un sommaire de vos conclusions. À ce
moment-là, lorsque vous avez donné ça, les parties vont pouvoir vous
contre-interroger sur le rapport.
MR. FUREY: Excuse me, Mr. Vice-Chair. We have been provided with no
opening statement.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: No, he is not giving an opening statement, Mr. Furey.
He is just providing a conclusion of his report -- a short conclusion
of what his report is.
DR. HEROUX: So I have a number of pages and on the first page I talk
about the potential advantages of smart meters. Then on the second
page I talk about the fact that meters, when installed, could become a
significant source of exposure beyond what is initially intended. Then
I talk about the difference between heat, recognizing heat only as an
agent, versus recognizing the field as a biologically active agent and
how I would say companies have avoided recognizing fields and only
recognize heat and I talk as well about the fact that recent research,
the National Toxicology Program, the Ramazzini Institute have changed
the situation and that -- also that it is likely that the public
health community will change its recommendations in the very near
future in relation to biological impact. That smart meters are special
in the sense that most people can choose to avoid exposures from cell
phones or from other devices, but that a smart meter is sort of
blanket imposed on a number of people, that this question is important
to -- is well known in society that epidemiologists are detecting that
some increases in diseases are occurring and that the pattern of
damage that is seen in animal models is not compatible with the
engineering view that is based on heat.Is that short enough?
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Autre choses Docteur Richard avant que
votre témoin soit contre-interroger?
DR. RICHARD: Non.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Ok merci.
Mr. Furey, I am just wondering how long you are going to be? It is
getting close to a morning break and if you anticipate to be --
MR. FUREY: I have no questions, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you. Mr. Bourque, do you have any questions
for this witness?
MR. BOURQUE: Yes, I do.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Can you move forward please?
MR. BOURQUE: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BOURQUE:
Q. - The first question is what is the health implications for
children and pregnant women that stay at home all day?
A. Well I do promote the idea that in schools, for example, we should
not use wifi because of experimental evidence that we have on
modifications seen in the brains of rats following exposures to wifi.
And as you know, the radiation from smart meters is not very different
from that of wifi. So contrary to the report of Dr. Plante who does
not believe that the electrosensitive people are real, I believe that
they are very real, that they are only a small fraction of the
population but that chronic exposure to these fields from smart
meters, either alone or in combination, because of the length of
exposure, can have an effect that is physiological and perhaps even
irreversible. So I believe that this is a serious question and you may
be aware that a number of countries in the world already, it is
forbidden to use wifi near very young children. So when you were
talking about brains in development, a number of connections are being
made that are -- that depend on very delicate processes that can be
influenced, in my opinion, by electronic waves.
Q. - Thank you. Would this have an effect on the elderly also that are
confined to, you know, homes, that can’t get out?
A. Yes. I don’t know if you have been given a copy of my most recent
publication relating to oxygen and magnetic fields? Has this been
provided, Dr. Richard?
DR. RICHARD: Non malheureusement je ne l’ai pas déposé.
A. A just completed work --
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So if it is not in the public record before us, Dr.
Heroux, I would ask you not to comment on it.
WITNESS: So I would not comment on the publication but can I comment
on the work leading to the publication or --
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Well if it is not before us, it is hard for us to
understand what was written and to have the parties to question on it
so, no, I would ask you not to comment on it.
WITNESS: Then to answer the question is that there is a large body of
literature that is not connected to me that already exists, that says
that exposure to electromagnetic radiation increases free radicals.
Maybe you know what free radicals are. Those are molecules that are
activated in the body that can create damage and there is a very
substantial literature that says that exposure to electromagnetic
radiation, even at low intensities, can increase the amount of free
radicals in the body. Free radicals, by physiologists, are implicated
in a large number of chronic diseases. In other words, you may not
feel these effects immediately but you will feel them later either by
increases in the rates of disease or by diseases progressing more
quickly. This is what free radicals are understood to do. And they do
this in very, I would say important diseases, for example, in
diabetes, which is 25 percent of your health budget, in things like
Alzheimer’s and in Parkinson’s. And indeed there are people who
promote the idea that these individual diseases are connected with
electromagnetic radiation exposures and these connections are observed
not only with cell phones, but they are observed with even proximity
to a cell tower, which is if you live within 500 meters of a cell
tower, that is low field intensities, we observe health changes in
relation to this. So this was essentially confirmed not only by
epidemiology in the field, but also by the data of the Ramazzini
Institute which was released at the same time as the National
toxicology program that studied the -- I would say the effects of cell
phones. In other words, the NTP released this year data that says yes,
cell phone radiation is connected with cancer. It primarily of the
neurological system, because pulsed radiation, I would say, affects
mainly, at least initially, the nervous system. While the Ramazzini,
an equally large study, NTP was $28 million U.S. Ramazzini essentially
verified that even at low amplitudes, we see the same effects. And so
for a range of exposures, the literature now says that we have
evidence for bioactivity in relation to cancer. And so this is why Dr.
Anthony Miller comments that in his opinion, IARC, which classified
previously radiofrequency radiation as 2B is likely to promote to
category 1 carcinogen, because what was missing was animal evidence.
And now NTP and Ramazzini have provided that.
So frankly, this mis why I think it is unwise to, at this point in
history, to go ahead and increase the burden of electromagnetic
radiation. In essence, I know New Brunswick Power may disagree with
me, but I wish that they would not, so to speak, go in this direction
for their own benefit.
Q. - So this is the electromagnetism that comes off of these machines?
A. Yes, those are fields that are either radiated intentionally by
antennas or in the case of power systems, unintentionally. It is a
parasite essentially. The lines radiate this, but it is a loss that
would be eliminated if it were possible.
Q. - Now would this environment affect office workers to the point
that it could possibly affect their health?
A. It is a recognized disability in Sweden and in France and in Italy
that if you are affected by these fields, you employer is required to
take measures to provide a work station or a work situation where you
are not affected. Electrosensitive people represent maybe 3 or 4
percent of the population, and the extremes, the people who are truly
disabled are a smaller proportion even. But because of the nature of
the interaction with living systems, all living systems, including
bacteria, including trees, including all animals are changed when the
electromagnetic radiation environment changes.
So this is a blanket effect on biology that is brought about by
changes in your electromagnetic environment. So what this means is
that yes, there is no category that is immune to this effect. These
effects, in my opinion, have progressively increased since we have
changed the electromagnetic environment in the 1900s. Author
Firstenberg, who published a book on this, observed that in 1900s
there was very little diabetes documented. Now a large proportion of
our population is, and from my work even before my last one, I noted
that electromagnetism disturbs metabolism in a way that makes it a
good candidate to increase diabetes.
Q. - We heard that the analog meters are slipping and not reading
accurately, do they still make these analog meters that you know of?
A. This is not -- I did not go to a company myself, but on the
committee, the New Hampshire Committee, Senator -- not senator,
representative Abrami is also on the committee that deals with smart
meters, and he assured me that he has talked with manufacturers who
were quite willing to make these older devices which are essentially
very, very well designed, they are entirely passive, require no power,
and have a very long life time. They don’t provide all of the
capabilities of course of a smart meter though.
Q. - Right. Since you were here last time, it gave me a lot of
knowledge about this stuff that I wasn’t aware of. And I went to a
gentleman and I got a meter to check the radiation from my microwave,
and cell phone and tv and all that. Is there a meter that checks the
magnetism or whatever the readings are off of these smart meters
available?
A. Yes, there has been substantial progress in this area, and in fact,
the models are being updated all the time. And in view of the extended
frequency range that will be -- that might be coming with 5G, there
will be more upgrades to these meters. These meters cost about $200.
But for example, the one made by CORNET, the ET88Plus is a rather
sophisticated device that allows for less than $200 to measure ELF
fields and various categories of radio frequency fields and in fact,
log the data, over 1,000 data points can be logged over time
automatically. So whereas in the past, measurements of these fields
were more or less the province of people who had very expensive
equipment, my equipment to measure these fields cost $40,000 by Narda,
but now the commoner will have access to these measurements.
And in a sense, because the measurements will be -- the data will be
available to a lot of people, you can expect that there will be many
more challenges about exposures since it will be very, very common --
commonly available.
Q. - It was reported earlier in testimony that it is a 900 megahertz --
A. Yes, 900 megahertz.
Q. - Megahertz. What would you consider a safe level? If it goes above
900, is that dangerous, 900 okay?
A. The frequency is not really the issue. The way this works from the
point of view of living systems is that we have lived over the past 2
billion years, life has lived in the static field of the earth which
is 50 microtesla. We are inherently resistant to that field.
As well, we are resistant to radiation from the sun. But the sun emits
practically no microwave radiation. So biological systems do not
develop resistance against agents that they never meet.
So when you are introducing in the environment significant components
of new frequencies that were never there before, you run a very strong
risk that reactions will occur. And I resent very, very heavily as in
a sense a miscarriage of science the fact that we would only limit the
effects of electromagnetic fields to heat as is done by the FCC in the
United States, and as is done by Code 6 in Canada. I think those are a
very, very poor reflection on the scientific level of these
institutions.
Now the FCC is a spectrum allocation agency that if you know the
situation, is entirely dominated by industry. But governments should
have the role of ensuring public safety and at the moment, this is not
being done unfortunately. You are left to defend yourself agai
radiation.
Q. - One --
A. May I point out that it is entirely possible for power utilities to
provide power and to have all the telecommunications that we need much
more safely than we are doing now. So I think utilities could benefit
from a change that would make their power system practically immune to
the criticisms that they experience now. This is possible over a long
period of time. And cellular phones can be redesigned to reduce your
personal exposure by a factor of 100. The problem is that we have no
convinced the engineering community because of its enthusiasm and its
success in commerce to be careful about effects on humans. Those
effects are always detected later.
We have experienced this with air pollution. We didn’t believe that
air pollution was significant for our health until 1952 when 12,000
people died in London over four days, and then all of the sudden, we
realized we have to take this into account.
In 1921 when General Motors decided to introduce lead into gasoline.
This was a decision was strictly financial one, because they could not
patent ethanol. The decision was made anyway. 50 million American
children lost 10 IQ points as a result and got 20 irreversible
behavioural problems because of this decision.
Right now, we are in a position in which engineers have the techniques
to do this cleanly, to do things cleanly. What we need to do is
convince them that it has to be done and that is it. We can do it,
and I might add, profitably.
Q. - Excuse me. One last question, I mentioned earlier in this session
that we heard testimony that the smart meters have set fires in
Saskatchewan. They removed them from -- they put in 100,000, then
they ordered them taken out because of fires. And so these smart
meters, you don’t have to look at them to read them, so I suggested
that they put them on top of the hydro poles --
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. - -- and would that be a lot safer for people that lived there,
instead of having them on the side of the house?
A. Of course if they are more distant, the level of radiation will
diminish. I think it is a fairly good idea. Frankly problems with
meters catching fire are a problem of construction, and those problems
will be 18 solved. This is not, I would say, a philosophical problem.
It is a very technical problem that the utilities, I am sure, will
solve very rapidly.
But of course, if you distance users from the source of radiation, it
improves the situation. But furthermore, the link on the pole to the
network is with optical fibre, you eliminate the need for any
radiation whatsoever. You eliminate the political problems, you
eliminate technical problems. So in my opinion, I do not understand
why, when faced with challenges that are coming from the health area,
why a company would not use 5 its skill to just wipe these things off
the table.
MR. BOURQUE: That is all my questions. Thank you.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Bourque. We are going to take a recess
for 15 minutes, and we will reconvene afterwards. Thank you.
(Recess)
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Stewart, any questions for this witness?
MR. STEWART: No, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. Flood, any questions for 15 this witness?
MR. FLOOD: No, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Stoll?
MR. STOLL: No, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Ms. Black?
MS. BLACK: No questions, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you. And Ms. Desmond?
MS. DESMOND: We just have a couple, Mr. Vice-Chair.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. DESMOND:
Q. - Dr. Heroux, as you are probably aware, Dr. Plante did testify in
this hearing and was also qualified as an expert. I am wondering if
you could just, at the highest level, summarize for the Board where
you see the 4 difference between how you landed at your opinion and
how Dr. Plante would have arrived at his opinion?
A. Well that is very easy. Essentially, very clearly Dr. Plante, who
is a physician, in his document says that he is using heat as the
agent that determines the threshold of damage. In my own report, I had
a table where I indicate a large number of landmarks and limits and at
the bottom is Code 6 Canada IEEE C95.1, 10 million microwatts per
square meter at the frequency actually that is a little bit higher
than the smart meter but this is the thermal limit at the very bottom.
The people who acknowledge that the fields can have effects all have
limits that are substantially lower. In other words, they believe that
humans are a lot less tolerant to electromagnetic radiation when you
acknowledge the fields themselves can impact biological system. And I
never get questions on this regrettably but my expertise is the
interaction between very small fields and critical enzymes in the
human body that can affect practically all biological processes. So
the
difference between Plante and myself is that he only recognizes the
effect that you had in a microwave oven. Everything else in his view
is impossible. What I believe is that after these effects were
documented, science solved the problem very quickly. In the Soviet
Union, in North Carolina, scientists sought interactions at non
terminal levels with metabolism, mitochondria of cells. In a human
egg, you have a third of a million of these mitochondria that are
affected by the fields. In a heart cell you have 50,000 of these
mitochondria. They are all affected by the levels of fields. In my
experiments I showed that this was at least occurring at 20 nanotesla,
which is .025 microtesla, which is very, very, very low. This
indicates that we have been for a long time influenced by this
radiation unknowingly and that science now informs us that we should
evolve to take precautionary measures.
As well, when you look at the results of the NTP, those tests were
designed to test whether what Dr. Plante is saying is true or not. In
other words, the man who designed the study of the NTP wrote an
article to confirm that the only reason why this $28 million was spent
is to determine whether heat is the only agent. And the NTP’s answer,
as is the agency for research of cancer’s answer, is that the thermal
hypothesis is wrong. And that is what science says. It doesn’t mean
that larger institutions like the Canadian government have caught up
with this reality, because as you know, society moves slowly and
society has a lot of vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
But science has been clear, even for a while, I would say that the NTP
simply follows a succession of tests on animals by (inaudible) who all
large animal studies who confirmed that this radiation cannot be seen
as only a heating agent.
MS. DESMOND: Okay. Thank you for clarifying the distinctions between
your work and Dr. Plante. Those are our questions. Thank you.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Desmond. Mr. Ervin?
BY THE BOARD:
MR. ERVIN: Dr. Heroux, I just want to clarify on a technical basis.
You make several references to the effects of electromagnetic
radiation and if I am understanding correctly, and based on my high
school physics, it is a magnetic field that surrounds a wire which is
conducting electricity. Is that your interpretation?
A. Yes.
MR. ERVIN: We heard from Dr. Plante a few days ago, that the domain of
electromagnetic radiation and radiofrequency radiation occupy two
entirely different 3 domains. Could you comment on that?
A. Yes. Essentially industry, when it wants to promote the idea that
these fields are not a substantial -- have no impact on health, they
use certain ideas that are I would say easy to put forward in front of
the public. And the first idea is that it is non-ionizing radiation.
In other words, they say if it cannot ionize molecules, it can’t do
anything. This is extremely bad science. And the reason for this is
that in your body lots of molecules are already ionized so the
question is not whether this radiation can ionize your body, it is
whether it can interact with the free charges that are already present
in your body. This is a very important distinction. And this means, to
reassure the public was used because historically it followed
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a time when we dealt with ionizing radiation
as a very important agent in our environment. So it was easy to grab
onto this idea and promote the notion that electromagnetic radiation
could not do it. But our science shows that there are free charges in
the body, electrons and protons, the same protons that you have in pH,
that can be affected in their movement, in their jump from one
molecule to the other by very, very, very small fields.
The second argument that Plante uses is that the fields are too small.
If you can believe that as a final argument in science, I have another
one for you. Viruses can’t harm you because they are too small. In
other words, the fact that the fields of the radiation from the smart
meters are not large does not mean that they cannot affect the
probability that protons or electrons move within the body. They do so
very, very well in wires, in other words, if I look at a piece of
copper, a very small field can affect the motion of electrons because
in a copper wire, electrons behave as a degenerate fermi gas. That is
what we say in physics. But there are charges within the body, in
particular in oxidative -- that are free just waiting to be affected
by electromagnetic radiation of very low values. And in fact in
engineering devices based on this principle are used to detect
magnetic fields to levels of .2 nanotesla, that are miniscule. So we
have devices that are sold that are based on the same principle that I
22 promote and other scientists promote, that confirm that this
exists. So the argument of the fact that it is small or nonionizing is
simply truncating a whole area of science that is very well accepted.
MR. ERVIN: I am not sure if I understand whether you have answered my
question or not, Dr. Heroux. The difference between electromagnetic
and radiofrequency radiation, and I think you speak about the impacts
of electromagnetic radiation. But my understanding of the radiation
that is emitted by smart meters and cell phones and such is more in
the field of radiofrequency radiation.
A. Those are the same things in a sense, electromagnetic radiation
encompasses the whole spectrum. When you talk about your
radiofrequency radiation, you are talking about a piece of that
electromagnetic radiation as distinguished from extra low frequency
radiation. So it is simply a different name to focus on the part of
the spectrum.
MR. ERVIN: The evidence of Dr. Plante also notes the differences in
frequencies. You know, one spectrum or frequency is all the light we
can see, for example, that is a form of electromagnet -- electro or
radiofrequency radiation?
A. Yes.
MR. ERVIN: You mentioned I think that the energy -- at least the
visible energy emitted by the sun can do us no harm. Well I am her to
tell you that I have many many sun burns, but at the ultraviolet
level, I understand that that is a major cause of skin cancer, for
example.
A. Yes. You are right. The properties of electromagnetic radiation,
the interaction with biological systems changes with frequency.
However, it is true that you can get sun burn but if you had not been
civilized in the last 100 years living frequently indoors, maybe sun
burning would be less of a problem. And if we even have the lifespan
that we have right now, of 70 plus years, perhaps getting skin cancer
would be less of a problem. My point is that natural radiation from
the sun is an agent that we inevitable become resistant to. In other
words, life evolves to eliminate the subjects or the processes that
are very vulnerable to our environment. The problem comes when we
introduce new types of radiation that no living system has ever had
the chance to see before. So in this situation you have to be
cautious, examine things very carefully and the examination of science
has pointed out that in spite of the incredible success of
electrification, the incredible success of telecommunications, we
should apply precautions to the level at which we expose ourselves.
Otherwise, we will pay a price in cancers and in chronic diseases. And
my point is that we can avoid this problem if only we are willing to
move in that direction. And you will not have to forego your cell
phone. We will just redesign it, we will change the standards and we
will have something that works perfectly well and is perfectly safe.
In the question that occupies you, in my opinion, technically we can
avoid the radiation while providing New Brunswick Power with the data
that they want. So I think technically this problem is solvable. But
health-wise it is a durable impact if we deploy a system like this
that is because of the internet of things, I guess you have heard of
that, is destined to grow and grow substantially. So I think that a
strong optical fibre network, in fact there are many people in the
United States who believe that utilities should be providing data
because they go into every home, why don’t they go into every home
with optical fibre as well. This solves the problem of radiation.
Wireless should be used for mobility, but for data transfer, there is
nothing better than optical fibre. It is a million times faster than
5G optical fibre. This is something that is technically immensely
valuable. We can do it now, why not.
MR. ERVIN: Thank you. Those are all my questions.
DR. HEROUX: Thank you for these questions. I don’t get to answer
questions like that very often. It is very satisfying to me.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Dr. Heroux, I have one question. What is more dangerous
between a cell phone and an AMI?
A. Well the cell phone is demonstrated by tests that are very
contemporary to generate cancers of the nervous system in rats and in
mice. Repeatedly over the years, since 1992, we have big studies of
that. The difference between a cell phone and an AMI is that first the
cell phone you can decide whether you are going to use it or not. You
can use it on the table and you can -- I don’t advise that -- against
your head. You can use it with an ear tube. You can use it very
little. You can use it in emergencies. And AMI is around you all the
time whether you want it or not. So it is a situation in which you are
contrived to be exposed to radiation. I mentioned that some people are
very, very susceptible to this radiation. I think it is highly unjust
to impose this on them. But if I had to choose between the two sources
of radiation, I would think that the AMI has less impact than the cell
phone but not my cell phone because my cell phone is out of battery
most of the time. I carry it around and if I need it, even I charge
it. So there is a way to use a cell phone that is very, very low
exposure. But if somebody puts an AMI in your house, you no longer
have a choice. It is an intervention by an external agent that leaves
you no alternative.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Dr. Richard, Docteur Richard vous avez
l’opportunité de poser des questions à la suite des questions qui ont
été posées par les parties, donc est-ce que vous avez des questions
que vous aimeriez poser à Docteur Héroux faisant suite aux questions
qui ont été posé?
DR. RICHARD: Pas vraiment. Je pense que Docteur Héroux a été très clair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Ok. Parfait. Merci. Docteur Héroux j’aimerais vous
remercié pour votre participation dans l’audience. Vous êtes excusé.
WITNESS: Merci beaucoup.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Merci beaucoup. Docteur Richard je crois 19 que ça
complète tous vos témoins?
MR. RICHARD: Oui, c’est ca.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Merci. I guess we are now with your 22 witnesses, Ms. Black. 2
MS. BLACK: Thank you,
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