Tuesday, 2 May 2023

Provincial court judges win salary, pension dispute with Higgs government

Automatic reply: RE Provincial court judges win salary, pension dispute with Higgs government So does the public get to check out the independent commission’s report?

 

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RE Provincial court judges win salary, pension dispute with Higgs government So does the public get to check out the independent commission’s report?

David Amos

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Tue, May 2, 2023 at 4:58 PM
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Tuesday, 2 May 2023

Provincial court judges win salary, pension dispute with Higgs government
 

Provincial court judges win salary, pension dispute with Higgs government

Province tried to change pay model but says it will accept independent commission’s recommendations

And the province says it accepts that decision and will go along with the commission's recommendations.

The government argued for smaller pay raises than what judges wanted during a hearing last year and made a case for putting their pensions under the province's shared-risk system.

The judges responded that the government's reasoning was flawed, didn't account for inflation and would jeopardize their independence.

The commission agreed with the provincial court judges that their salaries should remain linked by a formula to the salaries of Court of King's Bench justices, who are paid by the federal government.

"We are of the view that linkage of the salaries creates certainty for all involved," the report says.

Lawyer office. Judge gavel and law books, banner.     A Justice Department spokesperson said the province would comply with all eight of the commission's recommendations. (Shutterstock)

"Linkage assists in fostering respect for the commission process. Linkage avoids litigation and subsequent allegations of unfairness and bad faith."

Justice department spokesperson Geoffrey Downey said the province would comply with the recommendations.

"The commission's report has been received and reviewed by the department, and all eight recommendations were approved," he said.

The report was tabled at the legislature April 11.

Province wanted salaries tied to N.B civil servants

Under provincial law, a commission is appointed every four years to make decisions on the salaries and pensions.

That is because of the principle that the salaries of judges shouldn't be set by the province, which prosecutes criminal cases that the judges hear.

As of April 1, the commission estimates King's Bench judges would be earning $381,505. Provincial court judge salaries, indexed at 80 per cent of that amount, would be $305,204.

The commission heard arguments from the province and the Provincial Court Judges Association last year.

The province tried to argue that salaries should be "de-linked" from the King's Bench salaries and indexed to those of civil servants because of "continued challenges in restoring balance to New Brunswick's finances."

That would have meant increases of two per cent per year for four years, starting in 2020.

But the judges argued that the economy was bouncing back stronger than ever after a major pandemic slowdown in 2020. 

The province had a surplus of $408.5 million in 2020-21 and was projecting a surplus of $487.8 million for 2021-222 at the time the commission was hearing arguments.

And with inflation estimated at 17.4 per cent over the four-year mandate of the commission, the province's proposal would amount to "a substantial reduction in real salary."

The commission agreed with that. 

Pension reforms also rejected

On pensions, the commission rejected the province's arguments for incorporating the judges into the shared-risk plan, in which the majority of public-sector employees are enrolled.

The government argued the existing plan was costly, with taxpayers contributing $5.77 for every dollar from a judge. 

But the judges said it would put their pensions under the control of the board of Vestcor, the provincial pension management corporation, which has a board made up of provincial and union representatives.

"This would create the untenable perception and the real risk that judges would be vulnerable to economic manipulation from both the government and the largest unions in the province," the report says, citing the association.

The commission agreed.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR


Jacques Poitras

Provincial Affairs reporter

Jacques Poitras has been CBC's provincial affairs reporter in New Brunswick since 2000. He grew up in Moncton and covered Parliament in Ottawa for the New Brunswick Telegraph-Journal. He has reported on every New Brunswick election since 1995 and won awards from the Radio Television Digital News Association, the National Newspaper Awards and Amnesty International. He is also the author of five non-fiction books about New Brunswick politics and history.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices
 
 
 
64 Comments
 
 
 
David Amos 
Methinks the judges agree with my opinion of actuaries and the creation of Higggy's beloved Vestcor N'esy Pas?

"A team from Morneau Shepell worked with the government-appointed expert task force and collaborating unions on the Shared Risk Pension Plan (SRPP) design for the Province of New Brunswick. As actuary on this project, Morneau Shepell consulted on the development of the new plan design and provided in-depth analysis." 

 
Lou Bell
Reply to David Amos
You do realize the pension funds are fully vested now , fully owned by those employees , and th Chair of the Board of the Public Employees investment fund came out and indicated they are completely satisfied with their investments , the performance of the funds , and the latest COL allowance being added to their funds from the past year ? Or don't you ???? 
 
 
David Amos

Reply to Lou Bell 
I know Higgy had a hard time forcing the school bus drivers to finally go along with his scheme   
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Lou Bell
Why were the school bus drivers not happy last year?  
 
 
 
 
 
David Amos 
"On pensions, the commission rejected the province's arguments for incorporating the judges into the shared-risk plan, in which the majority of public-sector employees are enrolled."

Hence the judges will not lose a dime from their pensions the next time the stock market takes a dive

CBC News · Posted: Mar 11, 2009 5:46 AM ADT

The New Brunswick government is in line for a massive $800-million deficit in 2009-10 and is planning a series of program cuts and significant reductions in the civil service, a government official confirmed Tuesday night.

When Finance Minister Victor Boudreau tables his budget March 17, the official said, it will include a large deficit, more than one-third of which will be blamed on losses incurred by provincial pension plans on the stock markets.

 
 
 
 
Lou Bell 
Judges win . Liberals cheer !

Higgs and the taxpayers he represents and fights for lose .

 
David Amos
Reply to Lou Bell 
Did Higgy ever fix this?

CBC News · Posted: Oct 17, 2014 7:05 AM ADT

A former Progressive Conservative MLA says the Alward government missed a chance to end a long-time practice of offering a special pension perk to the province’s senior bureaucrats.

The previous Progressive Conservative government faced a significant backlash from provincial employees for its decision to overhaul civil service pensions by moving to a shared-risk model.

Civil servants accumulate larger pensions the longer they work for the provincial government, but deputy ministers accumulate their pensions at twice the normal rate for the first five years that they are at that top level.

Wes McLean, the former Victoria-Tobique Tory MLA who did not re-offer in the 2014 election, said the switch to a shared-risk pension system should have also eliminated that special arrangement for deputy ministers.

"I'm of the view that it's a relic and needs to be scrapped, especially given New Brunswick's fiscal situation,” he said.

When David Alward’s Progressive Conservative government took on pension reform, the goal was to reduce the long-term cost of the pension program.

McLean says he has a theory about why the Tories stopped short of cutting the extra benefit for deputy ministers while they were changing other elements of the pension system for provincial government employees.

"The water cooler talk was pushback from the deputies themselves,” the former MLA said.

Quispamsis Tory MLA Blaine Higgs, the former finance minister who was in charge of the pension changes, confirmed deputies got to keep the pension perk.

 
 
 
 
 
Lou Bell

Large raises for the judges , against Higgs wishes , and the Liberals are on here singing the praises of the judges win ! Much like the Fed Liberals , out of control spending , high inflation , all out of the taxpaying pockets of the middle class !!  
 
 
G. Timothy Walton
Reply to Lou Bell  
Oh no!

Somebody other than a Conservative or a corporate head got to keep pace with inflation. The horror! The horror!

 
David Amos
Reply to G. Timothy Walton
Go Figure

"A third lawsuit is led by the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, and CUPE, representing 800 current employees, including engineers and prosecutors.

The employees' argument is that changes to pension plans should have been negotiated, not legislated."

 
G. Timothy Walton 
Reply to David Amos 
I wish them luck. 


David Amos
Reply to G. Timothy Walton
Thats long over
 
 
Lou Bell

Reply to G. Timothy Walton 
Sure you do . Until you come to the realization it's YOUR money paying these overpriced public employees ! 


Graham McCormack 
Reply to Lou Bell 
You seem to think all public employees are overpaid. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Wendy Simon  
It doesn't pay to be in the private sector...all you do is pay taxes to keep the public sector in the life they have become accustomed to and continue to enrich on our backs 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Wendy Simon 
Amen 
 
 
Lou Bell
Reply to Wendy Simon
Where do you think all that money Trudeau gave away over the last 3 years came from ? The latest is 13 BILLION dollars to a private company to create 1500 jobs !
 
 
 
 
 
Jack Straw 
The whole appointment of Judges is a joke. All political nonsense. And they have the nerve to cry hard times. Do you think any of them would have resigned if these changes had gone through? They cry independence yet are all political appointments. 
 
 
Michael Cain 
Reply to Jack Straw
Appointed by the government of the day. Difficult for the government to argue hard times with all the surplus and a booming economy. 
 
 
G. Timothy Walton 
Reply to Jack Straw
They have to go through a screening committee before they're recommended to the government. The government in charge doesn't get to pluck people out of, say, teaching law instead of practicing it, like our neighbours to the south. Even Supreme Court nominees come from a short list presented to the Prime Minister. 
 
 
Ronald Miller
Reply to Michael Cain  
Booming economy? Someone does not spend much time reading about what is happening in the world of finance. So the surplus should be used for a few instead of helping to pay down debt which helps everyone. A true JT disciple way of thinking.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Jack Straw 
Welcome to the circus  
 
 
Lou Bell

Reply to Michael Cain  
Spoken like a true Liberal . Don't forget this government has paid down 2 BILLION DOLLARS on provincial debt over the last 2 or 3 years that has been out of control under the Liberals . Higgs fights for the taxpayers . Liberals ? Not so much ! 


Clive Gibbons 
Reply to Jack Straw
Do you think the IOL refinery would close if their property taxes doubled? 
 
 
Lou Bell
Reply to Michael Cain
You'd prefer hard times , a huge deficit , and struggling economy it appears ! 
 
 
 
 
 
 
robert brown
tell us who was on the commission  
 
 
David Amos
Reply to robert brown
Ditto 



robert brown
time for judges to be elected not appointed 


G. Timothy Walton 
Reply to robert brown
Because that's worked so very well for the Americans... 
 
 
Graham McCormack
Reply to robert brown
For the love of God, NO!  
 
 
David Amos
Reply to robert brown
I agree
 
 
 
 
 

Ronald Miller
I should also inform those on here that Higgs does not argue these cases, provincial lawyers do, thus ends today's lesson.
 
 
Michael Cain  
Reply to Ronald Miller
I should inform you that the lawyers are taking orders from the premier. This ends today's lesson.
 
 
Ronald Miller
Reply to Michael Cain 
Higgs is not a lawyer, they perform on behalf of the people, now back to your Higgs obsession.  
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Ronald Miller
Who loves to argue Higgy's lawyers? 
 
 
Michael Cain  
Reply to Ronald Miller
Never said Higgs was a lawyer. A lawyer acts on behalf of the client. The client is the government of New Brunswick, and the premier makes the decision whether or not to pursue legal recourse. 
 

 
 
 
 
Ronald Miller
As I read the comments below I guess I should not be surprised that the same people who complain about money for this and money for that are the same ones who are on the side of the judges who will get more taxpayer money and not on the side of NBers. 
 
 
Trudy Hebert 
Reply to Ronald Miller
Shared risk pension sucks, no one in NB should be forced into this pension. However, many have been.. I am happy for any NBer that can hold onto their pensions that they deserve. So many of us have not been so lucky.  
 
 
Samual Johnston
Reply to Trudy Hebert
sucks for who? it is the most fair and reasonable approach to a pension plan. The tax payers should no be on the hook to compensate government worker plans when the economy dips. This was a concept created when the economy was strong and governments gave in to every demand the unions came up with and with out any thought to the future.  
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Trudy Hebert  
You are not alone with that reasoning

Province spends more than $2M fighting civil servants in court

4 years after lawsuits were launched, legal costs are racking up

Gabrielle Fahmy · CBC News · Posted: Jul 06, 2018 4:00 AM AT 

 
Lou Bell
Reply to Trudy Hebert 
Maybe you need to do more reading . The Chair of the Board for the Public Employees Pension Fund came out and indicated they are very happy with the performance of their fund , the COL increase from last year , and how it's to be handled in the future ! You obviously don't realize until Higgs put in place regulations , that the fund was underfunded by almost 30 % ! Today it's fully funded ,government can no longer dip into it like they did in the past , and fully operated by THE OWNERS of the fund , the public employees themselves ! And yet you indicate you would be happy going back to a 30 % underfunded pension plan , being run by the province ! 
 
 
David Amos

Reply to Trudy Hebert 
Perhaps you should read the article I mentioned above

"The case where resolution seems the most likely is the one filed by Guy Levesque, a former deputy minister with the cabinet secretariat. He sued in 2015, alleging the break in contract is illegal.

Others are watching the case closely as they believe its outcome will impact the other proceedings.

Levesque would not give an interview to CBC because he is under a court order not to speak about the case, pending resolution of the latest motion.

A third lawsuit is led by the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, and CUPE, representing 800 current employees, including engineers and prosecutors.

The employees' argument is that changes to pension plans should have been negotiated, not legislated."





 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/pension-reform-lawsuits-costs-1.4732109


Province spends more than $2M fighting civil servants in court

4 years after lawsuits were launched, legal costs are racking up



Gabrielle Fahmy · CBC News ·

After Brian Gallant and the Liberals were elected, they offered retired civil servants a compromise on pension changes, but retirees decided to sue instead. (CBC)

In the four years since lawsuits were launched by former and current civil servants fighting the government on changes to their pension plans, no cases have reached a resolution or settlement, and legal costs on both sides are piling up.

As of late 2017, the province had spent $2,378,524 on legal fees to defend itself in three lawsuits, CBC News found through right to information requests.

The new shared-risk system introduced six years ago by David Alward's Progressive Conservative government didn't guarantee a set amount of pension benefits the way the previous system did.

After outcries and protests, the Liberals, who came to power in the next election, offered a compromise, but retirees rejected it and filed lawsuits instead.

A lawsuit was launched in 2014 by retirees who alleged the changes made by the PC government were discriminatory, since retirees had paid into their pension plans through the years and were now vulnerable, based on their age.

Two other lawsuits were brought around the same time — one by a former deputy minister and another by current civil servants.


Pension reform was brought in by the Progressive Conservative government of David Alward, who argued the old system couldn't be sustained, especially with people retiring earlier and living longer. (CBC)

New Brunswick's Office of the Attorney General initially refused to disclose the amount spent defending the pension changes in court, citing solicitor-client privilege.

But after a complaint was made by CBC News, the office of the integrity commissioner said that while releasing the amount spent defending each case might compromise ongoing legal proceedings, the public had the right to know the total amount spent on the issue.

'It's sad really'


"I'm not surprised at the amount, it's sad really," said Claire LePage, a former deputy minister with the Department of Energy, who is now chair of the Pension Coalition of New Brunswick, a group formed when the changes were under consideration in 2012.

The coalition was first to file for legal action, representing 13,000 retired New Brunswick public servants. They were last in court in the fall of 2016 and decided to put legal proceedings on hold, pending resolution of another case, according to LePage.

"It's been a long journey so far," she said. "The province has used every tactic possible to burn everybody out.

"We've had to deal with … motion after motion, and that's very costly in court."


Claire LePage, a former deputy minister now part of a coalition challenging the pension reforms, accuses the province of stalling tactics to avoid trial. (CBC)

Another right to information request, this one made by the coalition, revealed the province had employed the law firm of Stewart McKelvey for the case, and that under the agreement, up to 23 lawyers could be working on the case at a time.

The Office of the Attorney General said that given the matters are before the courts, it would be inappropriate to comment on any case or the costs.

"We've been in court since 2014, and here we are 2018, and really the essence of this case has not been heard in court," LePage said.

The Levesque case


The case where resolution seems the most likely is the one filed by Guy Levesque, a former deputy minister with the cabinet secretariat. He sued in 2015, alleging the break in contract is illegal.

Others are watching the case closely as they believe its outcome will impact the other proceedings.
Levesque would not give an interview to CBC because he is under a court order not to speak about the case, pending resolution of the latest motion.


A third lawsuit is led by the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, and CUPE, representing 800 current employees, including engineers and prosecutors.

The employees' argument is that changes to pension plans should have been negotiated, not legislated.


Some of the pension reform protesters had heated words for former finance minister Blaine Higgs, who pushed the changes. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)

The province has fired back with a statement of defence saying it created a task force when looking at reforming the pension systems, and unions could have participated.

A few unions, such as the one representing nurses, got behind the reforms.

Unions that left the discussions said they were one-sided.

As for Claire LePage, she said the proceedings have cost the pension coalition roughly $300,000 so far, which includes the money spent on its own case, and in support of the Levesque case.

Rationale for overhaul  


At the time of the overhaul in 2012, the Alward government argued the guaranteed income system was designed at a time when people worked longer and lived shorter lives. Now, people were retiring earlier and living longer, making the plan unsustainable.

Without the changes, there wouldn't be enough money in the coffers to pay pension benefits to public workers, the PCs said, citing examples of companies that had slashed pensions when they went bankrupt.

The move was backed by the Liberals, who were then in opposition.

Mario Levesque believes the province has spent a lot of money on the lawsuits. (CBC)
 
Mario Levesque at Mount Allison University, said the province has spent a large sum of money on these cases, possibly to avoid dealing with something.

"It is a lot of money overall — $2.4 million and counting," said Mario Levesque. "But it pales in comparison to the amount of money the province would have to pay out to [pensioners] and government employees over time if they were to lose the case."

"So for the government, it's batten down the hatches and fight this tooth and nail all the way."
Levesque said the government may be trying to wear the pensioners — like Claire LePage — down.

"It's a real David and Goliath case," he said. "They are fighting and pulling out all the stops to make sure this does not move forward.

"You figure an individual, how long can he or she stay in this kind of legal battle with their resources, compared to the government?"
 
 

About the Author

 


Gabrielle Fahmy
Reporter
Gabrielle Fahmy is a reporter based in Moncton. She's been a journalist with the CBC since 2014.



120 Comments 



David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
 
Interesting development

Provincial court judges win salary, pension dispute with Higgs government

Province tried to change pay model but says it will accept independent commission’s recommendations

Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: May 02, 2023 7:00 AM ADT

Ronald Miller

As I read the comments below I guess I should not be surprised that the same people who complain about money for this and money for that are the same ones who are on the side of the judges who will get more taxpayer money and not on the side of NBers.

Trudy Hebert

Reply to Ronald Miller

Shared risk pension sucks, no one in NB should be forced into this pension. However, many have been.. I am happy for any NBer that can hold onto their pensions that they deserve. So many of us have not been so lucky.

Samual Johnston

Reply to Trudy Hebert

sucks for who? it is the most fair and reasonable approach to a pension plan. The tax payers should no be on the hook to compensate government worker plans when the economy dips. This was a concept created when the economy was strong and governments gave in to every demand the unions came up with and with out any thought to the future.

David Amos

Reply to Trudy Hebert

You are not alone with that reasoning

Province spends more than $2M fighting civil servants in court

4 years after lawsuits were launched, legal costs are racking up

Gabrielle Fahmy · CBC News · Posted: Jul 06, 2018 4:00 AM AT 

 

 

Lou Bell 
Lou Bell
In the years the shared risk plan has been in effect, no one has lost a red cent, except those who were duped by lawyers , insinuating they were gonna lose their shirt ! The pension plan has done quite well , actually exceeding yearly projections . For those fighting the change, your lawyers are gonna stretch this out as long as they can ! Should be the ones being sued !!


David Amos
David Amos 
 @Lou Bell Methinks you will change your tune soon. and taxpayers will be relieved that we won't have to "Top Up" the pension plans like we did in 2009. It cannot be denied that stock markets have soared to astounding highs based on speculation only as the Yankee's national debt roared into the stratosphere. When Trump's Trade Wars make the worldwide economy take the predicable nosedive the recession of 2008 will look like a cakewalk in comparison. Lets just hope "The Donald" and his NATO pals do not start another war as well N'esy Pas? 
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Lou Bell Methinks that you may know that in 2013 knew the actuaries who conned Higgs and his union cohorts were profound liars. I put it writing and posted it in blogs long before this issue became an matter of history and the lawsuits began.

In a nutshell Mr Sinclair our highest paid employee has had a mountain of money to play with on the stock markets. The pension plans were NEVER in jeopardy even in 2008. When Victor Boudreau's budget in 2009 compelled the taxpayers top up the bureaucrat's pension plan to cover for Sinclair's losses. Many politicians should not deny that I let everybody know just how disgusted I was immediately byway of emails and posted my words within blogs as well N'esy Pas?

David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Lou Bell Methinks that even you would be curious as to what was in my last reply to you that was blocked just before the comment section closed N'esy Pas?
 

David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
Reply to Lou Bell
David Amos
Content disabled.
Reply to Trudy Hebert

Maybe you need to do more reading . The Chair of the Board for the Public Employees Pension Fund came out and indicated they are very happy with the performance of their fund , the COL increase from last year , and how it's to be handled in the future ! You obviously don't realize until Higgs put in place regulations , that the fund was underfunded by almost 30 % ! Today it's fully funded ,government can no longer dip into it like they did in the past , and fully operated by THE OWNERS of the fund , the public employees themselves ! And yet you indicate you would be happy going back to a 30 % underfunded pension plan , being run by the province !

David Amos

Content Deactivated

Reply to Trudy Hebert

Perhaps you should read the article I mentioned above

"The case where resolution seems the most likely is the one filed by Guy Levesque, a former deputy minister with the cabinet secretariat. He sued in 2015, alleging the break in contract is illegal.

Others are watching the case closely as they believe its outcome will impact the other proceedings.

Levesque would not give an interview to CBC because he is under a court order not to speak about the case, pending resolution of the latest motion.

A third lawsuit is led by the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, and CUPE, representing 800 current employees, including engineers and prosecutors.

The employees' argument is that changes to pension plans should have been negotiated, not legislated."

 
 
 
 
 
 
 


David Amos
David Amos

Methinks folks should Google David Amos Federal Court N'esy Pas?





Rosco holt
Rosco holt
The Conservative party should foot the bill for this(it's their decision).
Politicians pensions didn't go shared risk, but got more generous. Following the same train of thought we can't afford politicians pensions which are 6 figures a piece + perks & bonuses, all after 4 years of (dis)service.

Civil servants for the most part fullfilled their contractual obligations, while politicians continually reneg theirs.


David Amos
David Amos
@Rosco holt "The Conservative party should foot the bill for this(it's their decision)."

Methinks they are broke because they can't manage money yet they want to oversee ours N'esy Pas?

Cash-strapped PCs selling party headquarters in Fredericton
The Regent Street building could be all yours for just $479,000
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Jan 12, 2018 6:30 AM A

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/progressive-conversative-headquarters-sale-fundraising-1.4484153

Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@David Amos
Politicians continue to make stupid and expansive decisions out of greed and power.

We need a way to make them accountable and discourage them from participating in this race to the bottom that we are in.

And the only way I see to get politicians to do the right things is to hit them where it hurts..... Their wallet.



Dianne MacPherson  
Marc LeBlanc
We're sorry for living longer
David Amos
David Amos
@Marc LeBlanc "We're sorry for living longer"

Nay not I

Methinks all old taxpayers who do not have the benefit of a fancy pension should be grateful to stay alive long enough to watch this circus After all we are paying for it N'esy Pas?

Dianne MacPherson  
Rosella Melanson
Calling it "shared risk" is taking sides. Retirees have the risk. The former Chief Actuary for govt of Canada, Bernard Dussault, said so. NB Auditor General was not impressed with the "risk" the govt says it is taking in her 2013 report.

David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos 
@Rosella Melanson Methinks the actuaries who canned Higgs and his cohorts were profound liars and I told them so out of the gate and put it writing long before this issue became an matter of history. In a nutshell Mr Sinclair has a mountain of money to play with on the stock market and the pension plans were NEVER in jeopardy even in 2008. When Victor Boudreau's budget in 2009 made the taxpayers top up the bureaucrat's pension plan to cover for Sinclair's faux pas I let everybody know just how disgusted I was N'esy Pas?
David Amos
David Amos
@David Amos Methinks some folks know that my words were published elsewhere at the same time and that they will not go "Poof" in that domain so easily N'esy Pas?





Fred Brewer  
Fred Brewer
Imagine being offered a job where you are told they cannot pay what you are currently earning, but instead they offer a guaranteed, fully-indexed pension. You accept the offer and spend the next 35 years working and after retiring, your employer says "Sorry, we cannot hold up our end of the bargain and we need to cut your fully-indexed pension. That's what happened here folks and it is a disgrace.
You gave up 35 years of higher salary at your former employer only to be shafted by the government of New Brunswick in the end


David Amos
David Amos
@Fred Brewer Methinks in many folks who worked in the private sector for years and got done in by a questionable employers suffered and lot more and the shareholders and our governments quite simply don't care N'esy Pas?

Here is a local example

Nackawic mill pensioners will fight Tory plan
CBC News · Posted: Jan 19, 2006

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nackawic-mill-pensioners-will-fight-tory-plan-1.577888

Ex-Nackawic mill CEO gets 2 months in jail for hiding $8.4M from IRS
George Landegger's sentence cold comfort for former employees left with underfunded pension
CBC News · Posted: May 20, 2015 5:48 PM AT

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/ex-nackawic-mill-ceo-gets-2-months-in-jail-for-hiding-8-4m-from-irs-1.3080276
Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Samual Johnston
Just to state that salaries are way higher in the private sector than the public.

A lineman make around 40-45K(before taxes+ exp.) in the public, while in the private they make 80-100K for the same time period.

Dianne MacPherson
Dianne MacPherson
@Rosco holt
FAKE NEWS !!!!

Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Dianne MacPherson
Can't think of a proper reply, beside FAKE NEWS. LOL.

David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Dianne MacPherson Methinks this is old news and definitely far from Fake News that even you may recall N'esy Pas?

In 2013 knew the actuaries who conned Higgs and his union cohorts were profound liars. I put it writing and posted it in blogs long before this issue became an matter of history and the lawsuits began. In a nutshell Mr Sinclair our highest paid employee has had a mountain of money to play with on the stock market. The pension plans were NEVER in jeopardy even in 2008. When Victor Boudreau's budget in 2009 compelled the taxpayers top up the bureaucrat's pension plan to cover for Sinclair's losses I let everybody know just how disgusted I was immediately and posted those word within blogs as well Remember me now? Trust that many lawyers and politicians certainly do.

David Amos
David Amos
@Rosco holt Methinks I should thank somebody for blocking my last comment it proved my point in spades to the lawyers involved in this matter but nobody else can read it N'esy Pas?




  
Dianne MacPherson
Rose Michaud
Not just living longer, but when Bernard Lord let hundreds go out on early retirement packages, that really took a huge amount out of a pension plan designed for people retiring at 65, not 50-55. And the rest of the civil service has to pay for Bernard Lords promise to 'reduce' the civil service. (Which he didn't, they of course just hired more back after they retired).


Dianne MacPherson
Dianne MacPherson
@Rose Michaud
The largest employer in NB is the
NB Govt.......a lot of votes there !!!!!!
We are ALL going to have to 'bite the bullet'
in order to get this Province back on its feet.

Joseph Vacher
Joseph Vacher
@Rose Michaud
NB also has the highest percentage of people working for government than any other province

Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Joseph Vacher
Why is that?
The private sector gets whatever they want with the promise of jobs(that rarely materialize).
Where are all the jobs that were promised?

stephen blunston
stephen blunston
@Joseph Vacher that's what happens when you run 2 separate systems for everything , duplication is the biggest thing needed addressed I agree 100 % in bilingualism , but NB run apartheid keeping everything separate and the n wonder why they cant find bilingual eople duh

David Amos
David Amos
@Dianne MacPherson Methinks there are a lot more folks who do not earn big government wages and who will have to get by in their old age without a fancy pension. They have the right to vote too N'esy Pas?







Dianne MacPherson  
Colin Seeley
The best thing the Alward govt ever did was to slow down the gravy train that was leading us to bankruptcy.

Nobody deserves an risk free pension . Especially those who are well paid and receive benefits the rest of us can only dream of like sick days and dental .

Why do those who work for Govt think they are so special !

David Amos
David Amos
@Colin Seeley Methinks you will always continue to speak like a true blue conservative no matter what N'esy Pas?


Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Colin Seeley
Funny Alward speed up the gravy train on behalf of the Irvings (forestry & electricity agreements) that IS leading us to bankruptcy.

David Amos
David Amos
@Rosco holt Methinks you folks went way off the topic of this article N'esy Pas?










Dianne MacPherson 
Dianne MacPherson

The plan was and is "unsustainable".
We taxpayers are all tapped out !!!
The only ones who will 'benefit' from
these civil suits are the Lawyers !!!

David Amos
David Amos 
@Dianne MacPherson "The only ones who will 'benefit' from these civil suits are the Lawyers !!!"

Methinks this lawyer is enjoying the litigation far to much and at our expense N'esy Pas?

Ronald Pink of law firm Pink Larson in Halifax represents the trustees of the shared-risk plan. He maintains the legislation is a necessary and reasonable solution to the pension conundrum.

“Nowhere is there an employer with a DB plan who is not under water, and every government is trying to find a way to reduce these liabilities,” he says. “At the same time, the objective is to continue providing a reasonable retirement allowance, and the way they’ve chosen to achieve that balance is by removing guarantees from employers and making pensions a joint venture with employees.”












Dianne MacPherson
Paul Bourgoin
Dr. Eilish Cleary's stand on Glycophate was dead on and I wonder who had the political influence to overlook the scientific facts. Money over People Money wins every time but it does not make it right!


Dianne MacPherson
Dianne MacPherson
@Paul Bourgoin
Dr. Cleary made no statement on Glyphosate but
she did walk away leaving a lot of people believing
she was dismissed from her job because of it !!
'Dozens of regulatory bodies around the world, including
the European Food Safety Authority and HEALTH CANADA
have concluded that Glyphosate is NOT a health risk.' !!!!!

Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Dianne MacPherson
Dr. Cleary was canned because some in the private sector didn't like was her research was about to find.

While other regulatory bodies around the world banned it.

You know HEALTH CANADA is looking after the financial health of corporations not Canadians..

Dianne MacPherson
Dianne MacPherson
@Rosco holt
FAKE NEWS !!!!

David Amos
David Amos
@Paul Bourgoin "Dr. Eilish Cleary's stand on Glycophate was dead on and I wonder who had the political influence to overlook the scientific facts."

Methinks the lady took a golden handshake and no longer cares N'esy Pas?

Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Dianne MacPherson
How convenient, crying Fake news!?

Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Dianne MacPherson
Glyphosate is a poison that is used to kill trees( a live organism) like agent orange was and it was deamed safe at the time.

Drink water that is tainted with Glyphosate if you believe it safe.

I won't and regulatory bodies are controled by politicians/ government that will do/ say anything their rich backers says.










Dianne MacPherson
Paul Bourgoin

Dr. Eilish Cleary. was muzzled and the health consequences affecting the People of New Brunswick will at the end of the day l cost more financially while inflicting pain and suffering to our NB residents. She was dead on with the scientific facts with regard to Glycophate! There must have been some political funding influence to arrive to such a decision!

David Amos
David Amos
@Paul Bourgoin "Levesque would not give an interview to CBC because he is under a court order not to speak about the case, pending resolution of the latest motion."

Methinks that everybody knows the Crown can't put a muzzle on me N'esy Pas?
David Amos
David Amos 
@Paul Bourgoin Methinks its hard to a muzzle on Pete Mockler too N'esy Pas?

"New Brunswick lawyer Pete Mockler, who represents plaintiff Guy Levesque, is seeking damages. But he’s not relying on Charter arguments; instead, he says the defendants have committed breaches of contract, trust and fiduciary duty. He claims the unions and the trustees breached the terms of his employment by concurring in the transfer of assets to the new fund and other terms of the legislation.

Mockler believes a precedent established in 2012 favours his client.

“While the discussion about the shared-risk plan were ongoing, the government applied for a ruling on whether the province could relieve itself of its liability under the old legislation to top up the COLA adjustments, if there was insufficient money in the plan for that benefit. The judge ruled that the benefits were vested and couldn’t be taken away by negotiation.”









Dianne MacPherson  
Mike Morton
I find it ironic that the "free-the-beer" case, which was also complicated, was resolved very quickly relative to this file. It seems Government is more about the money than the people...

David Amos
David Amos
@Mike Morton Methinks everything is political and its always about the money. In y humble opinion this is a case of greedy people who work for government making a deal to do themselves in and now that the light has dawned on their marblehead they what to change it back. However the old ones who were already retired had no say in the matter hence they have very legitimate beef but they cannot afford to argue the government abusing us all and using our money to do it N'esy Pas?











Joseph Vacher 
Joseph Vacher

Im sorry but your pension plans were underfunded, and unsustainable.
welcome to the real world, where you dont get everything you want
and that retirement allowance that no one in the private sector gets
 
Rosco holt
Rosco hol
@Joseph Vacher
Why were pensions underfunded to begin with?

To allow businesses to steal to pension of their employees.


stephen blunston
stephen blunston
@Rosco holt that is the easy part because NB is broke

David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Rosco holt "Why were pensions underfunded to begin with? "

Methinks they never were underfunded That was just what the actuaries claimed so that the mindless conservatives and union bosses would fall for the scam N'esy Pas?


Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@stephen blunston
And who got NB to this point and why?

Also if we are broke, how can government continue to give sweet deals to businesses.

David Amos
David Amos
@Rosco holt Methinks folks would have enjoyed my reply to you but nobody can read it now N'esy Pas?




Dianne MacPherson  
Anne Bérubé
Well, Alward wanted us not to live a long life, Gallant thinks the same, I call it bullying. Shame on both of them. Even the Courts are on it as well by postponing the procedures indefinitely. Everyone who did not accept a civil servant job with the Feds back then, now regrets it. I know I do.
 
Dianne MacPherson
Dianne MacPherson
@Anne Bérubé
Watch for a shared-risk pension plan coming
to a FEDERAL Public servant near you......as soon
as there's a Govt. in Ottawa with the backbone
to implement it !!!!

Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Anne Bérubé
Alward doesn't have that problem with his PM pension on top of the token job he got from Harper.

David Amos
David Amos
@Anne Bérubé Welcome to the circus





stephen blunston 
stephen blunston

wow these greedy union and civil servants . boohoo . they should be thankful they have pensions at all. overpaid for the little they do . if these people worked in private sector and got paid by their worth they would ll have no pension and take a 45% pay cut
do they not understand that NB is broke , they didn't take away their pensions like 85% of private businesses did just trying to make it a little better for province , and they are still getting golden pensions with the changes

David Amos
David Amos
@stephen blunston I concur


Deborah McCormack
Deborah McCormack
@stephen blunston Thank you for your compliment
Having worked as a PH Nurse for thirty years and continue to volunteer
Nice to know what my citizens think of me
David Amos
David Amos
@Deborah McCormack What am I chopped liver? Say Hey to Hutchison, Kaplan and your friends for me will ya?






Dianne MacPherson  
Lou Bell
It appears possibly many of these suits are spearheaded by deputy ministers , many of whom have been appointed by , and fed from the trough by their party of favour ! Could this just be an extension of " partisan politics " ??

David Amos
David Amos
@Lou Bell "It appears possibly many of these suits are spearheaded by deputy ministers"

Methinks all of them were N'esy Pas?


Deborah McCormack
Deborah McCormack
@Lou Bell you are so wrong
Take a look at the membership
David Amos
David Amos
@Deborah McCormack Trust that you don't know the whole story


Dianne MacPherson
Lou Bell
Actually N.B. 's pension fund is doing quite well now that it's out of the gready hands of the politicians. All of these people complaining haven't lost a dime in their pensions, and it doesn't appear that they ever will ! It appears they may just want more !

David Amos
David Amos
@Lou Bell YUP

Lou Bell 
Lou Bell

Take a look at these people. They're the ones costing us money !

David Amos
David Amos
@Lou Bell Trust that they don't care



Valencia Deuchler 
Valencia Deuchler
The average Canadian Deputy Minister basic salary ranges for those in the federal government's EX category in 2015 range between $106,900 and $202,500 a year. That is according to CBC. How dare he waste our government's time and resources and taxpayers money trying to get MORE? He made more in 1 year then most Canadians make in a decade! In fact I work 40 hours a week as does my husband and it would take us 2 years to make what he made in one IF he were at the lower end of the spectrum, did you not plan for tomorrow? Why are you hurting your fellow Canadians with your greed Mr. Levesque? The average wage of a CUPE employee on the low end is admin and it's between 48k-52k a year the mean is around 100k a year according to averages posted on Glassdoor... again .... you have the means to plan for your future stop being so damn greedy and taking money from fellow Canadians who earn way less than you and could use those resources now! Take the energy you are spending on this fight that is hurting your fellow Canadian and put it towards things like fighting the government for gas price reforms right now we are paying top $ for gas, in fact we are paying more for gas now at lower crude prices than we were when crude prices were $10 more a barrel, fight for getting THAT put in check. Rogers Telus Bell are taking a third of most Canadians paychecks that don't make what you civil servants make the prices keeping going up and up other than the internet package I have I have the most basic cable and phone and I still pay over 230/month, if you put your energy towards getting caps put on that you would probably make more from those two things than you are wasting tax payers money to get from the government directly. Think about it!

Dianne MacPherson
Dianne MacPherson
@Valencia Deuchler
From out of Province are you ???
David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Dianne MacPherson Methinks everybody knows that overpaid people from out of province are blocking my comments N'esy Pas?


David Amos
David Amos
@David Amos Methinks I struck a nerve N'esy Pas?

David Amos
David Amos 
@David Amos Methinks some folks may find this an interesting read. No doubt many local lawyers will know the judge N'esy Pas?

September 13, 2017

"A group of retired public servants learned the hard way just how difficult it can be to mount a constitutional challenge to benefits changes, according to a Toronto lawyer.

In Bemister v. Canada (Attorney General), retired members of the voluntary public service health-care plan, which also covers active federal employees, claimed a move to double their share of premium costs violated sections of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. In 2014, the federal government shifted the cost-sharing split for premiums paid by retired members of the plan, boosting their portion to 50 per cent from 25 per cent. The government is phasing in the move, which was effective April 1, 2015, over four years.

Read: Government, public sector agree on changes to health benefits

In a verdict last month, Federal Court Justice Ann Marie McDonald rejected the retired members’ claims. “I conclude that the applicants have not established any breach of the Charter,” she wrote. “Further, had I concluded there had been a breach of Charter rights, I would have also found that the actions of the [Treasury Board] reflect a proportionate balancing of Charter values against the broader statutory objectives, and therefore that the [Treasury Board]’s actions and its decision were reasonable."


Lou Bell 
John O'Brien
Why should civil servants who already enjoy a host of gold-plated perks, have guaranteed pension with COLA when most of the taxpayers supporting that luxury, are forced to make do with less and less every year. The stench of greed coming out of every door in Fredericton is becoming unbearable- politicians, civil servants, bureaucrats, contract workers , judges, cops, and on and on.

David Amos
David Amos
@John O'Brien Methinks everybody knows I agree. Why else would I sue the Crown in 2015? Its interesting that nobody talks about that lawsuit N'esy Pas?





Lou Bell 
Deborah McCormack
For all the comments I have read perhaps you would like the rest of the story
I am one of those retirees no not a Deputy Minister however I am a retired Nurse
Average pension for a retiree 19 thousand dollars per year
Very diverse group
As a single parent for 27 years I could have used the extra pay that was taken from my cheque
I did not have a choice although many individuals who could put money away in the private sector chose not to as they believe let the government look after me in my old age
Also it was a union who renegotiated to change my pension
When I had already retired and we know the mandate of a union is not to be concerned for the retiree
So when you decide to malign a civil servant remember the pandemic scare H1N1
Snow plough operators NB Power when your electricity is down Public Health Inspectors with food safety
The list is endless
And by we are not victims only fighting for a contract that was denied

Dianne MacPherson
Dianne MacPherson
@Deborah McCormack
"I am entitled to MY entitlements:" !!!!!
David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Deborah McCormack "For all the comments I have read perhaps you would like the rest of the story"

Therein lies the rub I know for a fact some of my comments were blocked so it follows that other people were blocked as well Methinks you should ask yourself why N'esy Pas?

David Amos
David Amos
@Deborah McCormack  "Also it was a union who renegotiated to change my pension. When I had already retired and we know the mandate of a union is not to be concerned for the retiree "

Methinks everybody knows your complaint is legit but the lawyers are not N'esy Pas?







Dianne MacPherson 
Fred Sanford

Three things:
1. Civil servants pay significant payroll deductions for their pension plans - generally about 10% of their gross income.
2. Whether you think government pension plans are too generous or not, it's never right to change the terms of a pension agreement after someone retires. If the pension plan is unsustainable, change the terms, but phase them in for current and future employees - not retirees.
3. There are a lot of petty, jealous, bitter people on here that seem to begrudge people that have chosen to work in a career that offers a pension plan. How about making your own situation better rather than trying to drag everyone down with you?

David Amos
David Amos
@Fred Sanford Cry me a river


David Amos
David Amos
@Fred Sanford Methinks that CBC is rather dumb to believe that you are whom you claim to be N'esy Pas?


Lou Bell
Lou Bell
@Fred Sanford And since the change was made, how much have you lost ? Answer - whatever your groups lawyers have filled their pockets with !












Dianne MacPherson 
Gabriel Boucher

So let me get this straight. This civil servant lawsuit is being represented by the law firm of Stewart McKelvey, the same law firm that Mr. Gallant himself used to represent before he became Premier? See where I'm going with this? This is the part that needs to be investigated.

David Amos
David Amos
@Gabriel Boucher Methinks that the Irvings, the liberals, NB Power the EUB, and everybody in the know knows that the law firm of Stewart McKelvey and I are far from done with our spit and chews N'esy Pas?







Dianne MacPherson  
Chuck Michaels

Time to start naming some of these political types as parties to the lawsuits and seek damages from them. This whole concept of "crown immunity" is offensive.

David Amos
David Amos
@Chuck Michaels Check my work
 
 
David Amos
David Amos
@Chuck Michaels Methinks that Leonard Lee-White, the local liberals and many other "political types" throughout Canada would consider the affidavit of James Harnum an interesting piece of work as well N'esy Pas?
 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/pension-perk-for-deputy-ministers-should-be-cut-ex-mla-says-1.2802418 

 

Pension perk for deputy ministers should be cut, ex-MLA says

 

Former Progressive Conservative MLA Wes McLean says PCs should have ended special pension benefit

The previous Progressive Conservative government faced a significant backlash from provincial employees for its decision to overhaul civil service pensions by moving to a shared-risk model.

Civil servants accumulate larger pensions the longer they work for the provincial government, but deputy ministers accumulate their pensions at twice the normal rate for the first five years that they are at that top level.

Wes McLean, the former Victoria-Tobique Tory MLA who did not re-offer in the 2014 election, said the switch to a shared-risk pension system should have also eliminated that special arrangement for deputy ministers.

"I'm of the view that it's a relic and needs to be scrapped, especially given New Brunswick's fiscal situation,” he said.

When David Alward’s Progressive Conservative government took on pension reform, the goal was to reduce the long-term cost of the pension program.

McLean says he has a theory about why the Tories stopped short of cutting the extra benefit for deputy ministers while they were changing other elements of the pension system for provincial government employees.

"The water cooler talk was pushback from the deputies themselves,” the former MLA said.

Quispamsis Tory MLA Blaine Higgs, the former finance minister who was in charge of the pension changes, confirmed deputies got to keep the pension perk.

But Higgs says it's because he planned a larger overhaul of the pension system for deputy ministers had the Tories won a second term.

"That's why we didn't. We were looking at the whole picture. That was the next step, to look at the whole compensation package for senior officials,” Higgs said.

But the Progressive Conservatives lost the election to the Liberals, which makes further reforms unlikely.

The Liberals promised during the election to reconsider the reforms already imposed by the Tory government, rather than take them further.

 
 
84 Comments
 
 
 
David Amos
I wonder if Higgy and his minions ever bothered to check my work yet
 
 
 
 
Mike76ss
Well Gallant has the opportunity now to correct this and do the right thing for the tax payers of NB... The Cons did the first step in pension reform to sustain the system. L:ets now see what Gallant and the Liberals do. Lets give them their chance before this razor thing majority dissolves.   
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Mike76ss  
How did that work out for ya? 
 
 
 
 
BarbaraCanuski 
The perks of the Deputy Ministers is not limited to just this.

Deputy Ministers are entitled to a car supplied by government.

Deputy Ministers are also entitled to a "performance bonus" on an annual basis, which amounts to an additional $15k -$20k a year. And guess what, nearly all Deputy Ministers receive their bonus.

When I and a couple other civil servants suggested the bonus be eliminated we were told that the bonuses were needed to retain the best, and without paying it, those DMs would leave. Not likely I responded. At a salary level of $120k-$150k, there are plenty of others that would assume the job.

It would appear that these Deputy Ministers had no objection to cutting the pension benefits of the rank and file civil servants, but not their own very costly perks (bonuses and car allowance, and travel). 

 

justathought  
Reply to BarbaraCanuski 
"retain the best"??? Retain the best what I ask...the best scammers?? "There was a crooked man who lived in a crooked house". 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to BarbaraCanuski 
And it goes on and on
 
 
 
Anne Bérubé 
Dear Mr. Higgs: Of course, you would not touch your deputies' pension, why should you, right? These guys are fighters, not like older retirees who are an easier target. Deputies can also buy the cars they drove which were given by your government. at an excellent price. I have to tell you that I do not believe one little thing coming from your mouth, do you hear me? You are the reason I am getting up earlier in the morning just so that I can dislike you a little longer daily. You took my pension and changed it without my permission. I am also not expecting that the liberal government will change anything, as you are ALL alike, selfish, however, your government got voted out and this is very sweet music to my ears.  
 
 
debtdebt © 
Reply to Anne Bérubé  
it does suck that your pension was changed to a shared risk plan.....but isn't it better then having huge cuts forced upon you because the Province is broke? A contract was made but the Province simply cannot afford it any more.....It is not like they can go out of business one day and start up a new Province the next day. They have to legislate the changes to deal with the real world situation of being broke....  
 
 
ROBBEB 
Reply to debtdebt ©  
And how much money did the Government give away just before the election?? I believe the amount was around 400 million. That would have paid the pensioners for quite a few years. So don't say the Province is broke. 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Anne Bérubé  
Trust that Higgy and I are still going at it 
 
 
 
Jerodcan  
"But Higgs says it's because he planned a larger overhaul of the pension system for deputy ministers had the Tories won a second term.".... "That's why we didn't. We were looking at the whole picture. That was the next step, to look at the whole compensation package for senior officials,” Higgs said....

Right Blaine... You had plenty of time to screw over the little guy making thirty grand a year and getting a twenty some thousand dollar pension, while you the politician and the senior civil servants still get the same cushy pensions you always get, and those are the pensions that make the public mad. There was no time to deal with Deputies pensions while you were in office and people would need to re-elect your government for that to happen... Tell me Blaine... Are you still waiting for that call from Brian Gallant offering you the position of Minister of Finance? Because if you are, you can forget it he already has one.


David Amos
Reply to Jerodcan  
Too Too Funny

 

 

 

 

 

 

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