From: "MinFinance / FinanceMin (FIN)" <fin.minfinance-financemin.
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:39:00 +0000
Subject: RE: Methinks Minister Mikey Holland should pay more attention
to whats going with NB Power within the EUB and the CBC N'esy Pas Higgy?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
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From: Premier of Ontario | Premier ministre de l’Ontario <Premier@ontario.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:38:59 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Methinks Minister Mikey Holland should pay
more attention to whats going with NB Power within the EUB and the CBC
N'esy Pas Higgy?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
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---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:38:54 -0400
Subject: Methinks Minister Mikey Holland should pay more attention to
whats going with NB Power within the EUB and the CBC N'esy Pas Higgy?
To: mike.holland@gnb.ca, wharrison@nbpower.com, gthomas@nbpower.com,
Andrea.AndersonMason@gnb.ca, Robert.Jones@cbc.ca, jesse@viafoura.com,
news@dailygleaner.com, nben@nben.ca, premier@gnb.ca,
blaine.higgs@gnb.ca, dominic.leblanc.c1@parl.gc.ca,
Dominic.Cardy@gnb.ca, jeff.carr@gnb.ca, oldmaison@yahoo.com,
andre@jafaust.com, Ginette.PetitpasTaylor@parl.
Sherry.Wilson@gnb.ca, Ross.Wetmore@gnb.ca, megan.mitton@gnb.ca,
David.Coon@gnb.ca, Kevin.A.Arseneau@gnb.ca,
Newsroom@globeandmail.com, sturgeon.nathalie@
steve.murphy@ctv.ca, nick.brown@gnb.ca, robert.mckee@gnb.ca,
Kevin.Vickers@gnb.ca, Tim.RICHARDSON@gnb.ca, Trevor.Holder@gnb.ca,
rick.desaulniers@gnb.ca, michelle.conroy@gnb.ca, Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca,
carl.davies@gnb.ca, carl.urquhart@gnb.ca, Cathy.Rogers@gnb.ca,
robert.gauvin@gnb.ca, roger.l.melanson@gnb.ca,
Roger.Brown@fredericton.ca, ron.tremblay2@gmail.com,
Bill.Morneau@canada.ca, premier@ontario.ca
Cc: philippe@dunsky.com, Steven_Reid3@carleton.ca,
motomaniac333@gmail.com, darrow.macintyre@cbc.ca,
Chuck.Thompson@cbc.ca, sylvie.gadoury@radio-canada.ca
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/01/interveners-dubious-over-nb-powers.html
Tuesday, 14 January 2020
Interveners dubious over NB Power's revamped smart meter plan as EUB
hearings begin
https://twitter.com/
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 49 others
Methinks its wonderful to see the lawyers in our employ so Happy Happy Happy N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/01/interveners-dubious-over-nb-powers.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meters-eub-hearings-1.5427258
EUB lawyers clash with NB Power over apparent rosy assumptions for smart meters
Lawyers spar over business case calculations on Day 2 of EUB hearings
· CBC News · Posted: Jan 15, 2020 7:00 AM AT
NB Power senior vice-president Lori Clark says they utility has used conservative assumptions in its business case supporting the purchase of smart meters. (Graham Thompson/CBC)
Lawyers for NB Power and the Energy and Utilities Board clashed Tuesday as the utility's application to buy and deploy smart meters continues to face intense scrutiny at hearings in Saint John.
Board lawyer Ellen Desmond posed a number of questions to NB Power executives about assumptions used in the utility's business case. She eventually asked them to recalculate one of the financial benefits NB Power is claiming smart meters will provide, using less generous assumptions than the utility has chosen.
"Just to see what the combined impact would be on that benefit," said Desmond.
That triggered a sharp response from NB Power lawyer John Furey, who said the utility would comply only if it could also do the opposite and recalculate the benefit using a more generous assumption as well.
NB Power lawyer John Furey took exception to a request by EUB lawyer Ellen Desmond that the utility recalculate some of the benefits its been claiming smart meters will generate. (Graham Thompson/CBC)
"I don't think board counsel gets to pick and choose," said Furey about Desmond's request to have certain items recalculated.
"It would be fair and reasonable for the board to see all potential sensitivities.
"I don't know why board counsel, of all intervenors, who is here to complete the record and to assist the board would object to inclusion of a sensitivity around all of the assumptions."
Desmond did not object to NB Power adding what it wanted to the specific information she was requesting and sounded surprised by Furey's claim she was being unfair.
"I'm sorry, Mr. Furey, I was not trying to take issue with your sensitivity analysis. I very clearly say I have no objection to that," she said.
Saint John Energy has 9,816 smart meters in service in the city, covering more than one quarter of its customers. (Robert Jones/CBC)
NB Power is in front of the Energy and Utilities Board seeking permission to spend $92 million to buy 360,000 smart meters and deploy them with most of its customer base.
It has claimed the meters will generate a net benefit to the utility of $31.1 million over 15 years, but the hearing has already exposed weaknesses in that number.
Error uncovered
On Monday, NB Power finance executive Stephanie Langlais conceded to public intervenor Heather Black that the net benefit calculation includes $3.2 million that should be removed, due to an error made by the utility.
"Does NB Power accept that this should revise its business case you are submitting to the board be reduced in terms of those benefits by $3.2 million?" asked pubic intervener Heather Black.
"Yes, we do," replied Langlais.
On Tuesday, Desmond was exploring the possibility that additional problems might be undermining the business case.
EUB lawyer Ellen Desmond triggered controversy at an NB Power hearing Tuesday by questioning the value of some of the benefits being claimed by the utility in its business case to acquire smart meters. (Graham Thompson/CBC)
She questioned Langlais about NB Power's updated 10-year rate projections, which are lower than when the smart meter plan was first put together last summer.
Langlais acknowledged those new projections lower the benefit of switching to smart meters by $700,000 over the 15-year period
Desmond also questioned whether NB Power wasn't exaggerating its business case a further $604,000 by the way it has been projecting 12 months of benefits from every smart meter installed in a given year — even from those deployed in the middle or end of the year.
"Do you agree that there is perhaps a more conservative way to calculate that benefit," asked Desmond.
'Very small numbers'
NB Power senior vice-president Lori Clark dismissed those issues as "noise" and told Desmond the utility had used conservative assumptions to calculate more significant benefits of smart meters that more than compensated for the "very small numbers" she was raising.
"The fact that we've erred on the very conservative side of this [larger] benefit accounts for that noise we're talking about," said Clark.
EUB vice-chairman Francois Beaulieu is heading an eight-day hearing into whether NB Power should be allowed to spend $92 million to acquire 360,000 smart meters for its entire customer base. (Graham Thompson/CBC)
That's when Desmond asked if the utility would undertake to recalculate some of the numbers she had been asking about.
Furey said the utility would only do that for Desmond if it could also show what would happen if it used a less conservative assumption for the benefit Clark had raised.
"If counsel wishes to provide that separately, that's fine," said Desmond. "If they want to do a sensitivity in addition to our ask, then I have no issue with that."
83 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Raymond Amos
Methinks Higgy and Minister Mikey must understand why I am hollering BINGO again N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Methinks its wonderful to see the lawyers in our employ so Happy Happy Happy N'esy Pas?
Roland Godin
No doubt about uploads of intelligent politicians and ranked and filled; however dealing on these issues with intellect rationally, insight, foresight, discernment and accountability, questionable...et voilà.
Dale Chapman
Reply to @Roland Godin:
I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
If I am understanding your initial statement, ranked and filled should be rank and file. Rank and file refer to a phalanx of men in a Greek army unit... rank is row number and file is column number. When used in this fashion, it means all of the people who actually do the job, not the managers. The rest of your post is a word salad unless I change about half of the words... even then, I am not sure what your point was.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
If I am understanding your initial statement, ranked and filled should be rank and file. Rank and file refer to a phalanx of men in a Greek army unit... rank is row number and file is column number. When used in this fashion, it means all of the people who actually do the job, not the managers. The rest of your post is a word salad unless I change about half of the words... even then, I am not sure what your point was.
Brian Robertson
Reply to @Dale Chapman:
Not one of Roland's best posts.
I took it to be a complement to the many posters here, both informed technical people as well as regular Joes who want to be heard on this issue.
So, there it is.
Not one of Roland's best posts.
I took it to be a complement to the many posters here, both informed technical people as well as regular Joes who want to be heard on this issue.
So, there it is.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Roland Godin: Methinks they don't understand your sense of ha ha N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Roland Godin: In a nutshell we should welcome everyone back to the circus
Roy Kirk
Mr Furey well knows that he can file any evidence his client wants to file. In this case his nose seems out of joint because he's trying to defend unsupportable optimistic assumptions by demanding the right to show how much stronger his case would be if he made them even more optimistic! %-(
NBP has a long history of capital projects proposed and started on the basis of optimistic projections of benefits and understated costs and risks. And just as large a body of evidence that their projections are not realized in practice. In view of this history, the burden of proof should be firmly on Mr. Furey and his client to show that their work is reliable. Simply arguing that he can do calculations to bias it further should be met with well-deserved skepticism, bordering on contempt, by the EUB.
The simple fact is that these meters will only deliver significant savings if they are used with rate designs that are properly reflective of costs. NBP has been steadfastly unwilling to adopt such rate designs for use with its existing meters, so why would any reasonable person expect them to do so for the new meters? A proper, cost-based classification of customers and rate designs would deliver the vast majority of potential dollar benefits using the existing meters i.e. at no incremental capital cost. And it would do so in a stable and predictable fashion that customers could rely upon. Do that first, then we can talk about new meters.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Roy Kirk:I believe my words on December 3rd still hold true today
"If anyone wishes to recall before the last election the EUB denied this Smart Meter Nonsense while the liberals promised to freeze the power rates for 3 years or so just like Higgy's old boss Alward did in 2010. Since Higgy and the PANB seized control of the government a year ago NB Powewr rates have been increased after a late filing and another is on its heels. Plus obviously the request for big bucks for smart meters is back on the table as well. Methinks its strange that nobody has asked Higgy and Holland why that is or what is with the promotion of mini nukes all of a sudden along all the other nonsense going on with the cash cow called NB Power which never audited I might add N'esy Pas"
"If anyone wishes to recall before the last election the EUB denied this Smart Meter Nonsense while the liberals promised to freeze the power rates for 3 years or so just like Higgy's old boss Alward did in 2010. Since Higgy and the PANB seized control of the government a year ago NB Powewr rates have been increased after a late filing and another is on its heels. Plus obviously the request for big bucks for smart meters is back on the table as well. Methinks its strange that nobody has asked Higgy and Holland why that is or what is with the promotion of mini nukes all of a sudden along all the other nonsense going on with the cash cow called NB Power which never audited I might add N'esy Pas"
Aaron Allison
We need the AG to do a Forensic Audit into NB Power
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Aaron Allison: I have been suggesting that for years
Greg Miller
Reply to @Aaron Allison: Best idea I've heard yet--kudos to you!
Emilien Forest
NB Power executives have a history of frivolous spending. If what they propose works out they receive a huge bonus, if not their bonus is not as big. So it it a win-win situation for them. It is just another means of fattening their pocket books.
David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Emilien
Forest: Methinks folks should wonder if the NB Power executives
consider the history of our comments frivolous N'esy Pas? For instance what article did this lady have in front of her on Monday and how many news stories was she prepared to refer to
NEW BRUNSWICK ENERGY and UTILITIES BOARD
Matter 452
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power 5 Corporation for approval and Advanced Metering 6 Infrastructure capital project
Held at the Delta Hotel Saint John, N.B. on January 13th 2020.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BOURQUE:
Page 141
Q. - Thank you. Now the other day -- oh, about a month ago -- Saint John utilities had a lady on the radio in Fredericton. She was saying that they didn’t need smart meters to have a smart grid. Is -- have you worked with Saint John utility to see what they were talking about?
MS. CLARK: Yes. I actually have the article in front of me and I think there is a really good quote from the article that says some smart grid technologies can be deployed independently of AMI. Others benefit when AMI is also in place. Finally there are some aspect of the smart grid that only can be achieved by the adoption of AMI. So AMI is one component of the smart grid.
Greg Miller
Reply to @Emilien Forest: After the Florida Hydrogen fiasco I think the executives at NB Power have used up their bonuses (about 13 million?) for decades to come!
Greg Miller
Again I ask, why is NB Power so insistent on installing these meters? Have they already bought them? Let's make these STUDY ASSUMPTIONS public. I'd love to analyze them myself having a background in research and evaluation and with colleagues across Canada who love to challenge.
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Greg
Miller: Most of the information is made public. you will find it at the
EUB website although it is not very user friendly. http://www.nbeub.ca/
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Greg
Miller: Trust that your questions have been answered by me many times
Its not my fault you didn't and or couldn't read my words
Greg Miller
Reply to @Fred Brewer: I appreciate you comment; however, I see no indication (or mention) of the smart meter proposal or study related to the recent presentation. You are quite correct about the lack of "user friendly" format it makes me wonder if the utility board itself doesn't expect the public to engage.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Greg Miller: Now do you understand why my words go "Poof"???
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Greg Miller: I appreciate your frustration as I have gone through it myself.
When you land on the EUB home page click on the large orange button that says "HEARINGS & DECISIONS", then click the orange "SEARCH" button. Select your language and then in the box that says "Enter part of text from matter title" type in the word "METER". The click on matter # 0452 which is the only search result. And this will load hundreds of documents.... Happy reading.
Shawn Tabor
Sad times, NB the place to be, if they go ahead on this one. 5-7 billion dollar dept. Just thinking,,,, If this is again so Profitable, Why, Why so much dept. Not sure but is This Business. Really folks, We, Us have to wake up.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Shawn Tabor: I explained this to you long ago correct?
John Haigh
Would like to know the cost to taxpayers for these hearings.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @John Haigh:
I know for fact my friend Roger Richard has spent way too much money
dealing with NB Power and their cohorts on behalf of people who could
care less.
Ben Haroldson
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: What makes you think they/we care less, and what is your suggestion about what to do?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: Go to the hearing and show some support for Roger's efforts on your behalf
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: Deja Vu 4 U https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meters-1.5381596
Johnny Jakobs
Statistical gymnastics bouncing across the room. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth. Given NB Power's history, I side with the EUB.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Johnny Jakobs: I don't trust any of them and never did.
Richard Dunn
NB Power continues to show lack of leadership at the highest level. Unfortunately we cannot trust their numbers, or many of their claims. It is time for a complete leadership change at NB Power, including the Board of Directors.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Richard
Dunn: FYI I took on Mulroney's old buddy Burney the Chair of the board
of Directors and NB Power's Yankee lawyers in 2006 and everybody laughed
at me. Methinks its now my turn to laugh N'esy Pas?
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Richard Dunn: The "arms length" relationship between NB Power and Government doesn't serve the intended purpose. Government should take it over completely or completely revamp the organization--beginning at the top!
https://twitter.com/
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 49 others
I say
Methinks Higgy and Minister Mikey must understand why I holler BINGO so much lately N'esy Pas?
Higgy's fan says Isn’t that a Daisy???
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/01/interveners-dubious-over-nb-powers.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/higgs-transmission-lines-atlantic-premiers-1.5425440
Higgs says Atlantic premiers like plan for more transmission capacity in province
Proposal could help Maritimes cut reliance on fossil fuels
· CBC News · Posted: Jan 13, 2020 6:12 PM AT
Premier Blaine Higgs said the four Atlantic Canadian premiers have endorsed a plan that would see Quebec and New Brunswick working together to improve and expand transmission lines in the province. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
All four Atlantic premiers are keen to see NB Power and Quebec work together to build new transmission lines through New Brunswick, says Premier Blaine Higgs.
Higgs says all the premiers taking part in the annual meeting of the Council of Atlantic Premiers — which he attended by videoconference after his flight was cancelled — endorsed the agreement announced last Friday.
"It was seen as a win with all of the provinces because they wanted this infrastructure upgrade," he said.
Higgs said greater transmission capacity could allow hydroelectric power from Quebec to replace power now generated at NB Power's Belledune and Coleson Cove generating stations, if no alternatives can be found by 2030.
Belledune now burns coal, which Ottawa wants phased out in the next decade, and Coleson Cove runs on the coldest days of the year on fuel oil. Both are carbon dioxide-emitting fossil fuels.
"It is an option that provides for Belledune in 2030 and also looking at Coleson Cove down the road in 2030," Higgs said.
Ottawa wants coal-powered plants off the grid by 2030, including NB Power's Belledune generating station. (Environment and Climate Change Canada)
It will also allow Quebec to sell electricity via New Brunswick into Nova Scotia, which has four coal-fired plants.
Another scenario will see power from dams in Labrador, including Muskrat Falls, transmitted through Quebec and New Brunswick into the United States via NB Power's links to the New England power grid.
Meanwhile, New Brunswick would be able to collect tolls on the power moving through the province.
"Increasing the capability of our transmission system is a benefit to all of us," Higgs said.
Quebec Premier François Legault told reporters in St. John's that his province has a surplus of hydroelectricity that it's willing to sell to other provinces now burning fossil fuels to generate power.
"It's a good way to replace this energy [with] clean energy especially in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia," Legault said.
Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Dwight Ball and Quebec Premier François Legault, address the media during the Atlantic premiers conference in St. John's. (Paul Daly/THE CANADIAN PRESS)
"It's clear that we have right now some capacity and we can add to this capacity. So why don't we work together on a plan, a complete plan to serve 100 per cent of clean energy to all our provinces?"
In a pair of tweets, New Brunswick Green Party Leader David Coon applauded the plan in sweeping terms.
"Today, the four Atlantic Premiers took the first essential step toward creating a renewable energy future for our region, by agreeing to create a regional grid that would move hydroelectricity from Labrador and Quebec to the Maritimes," he said.
"This will make it easier to replace dirty coal and costly nuclear with renewable power, but we must have a plan to roll out wind, solar and more of our own hydroelectricity here at home."
But Higgs said that he foresees nuclear power, including from the proposed small modular reactors proposed by two Saint John companies, also being available to other provinces via the beefed-up grid.
The massive Muskrat Falls project in Labrador could benefit from improved transmission capability in New Brunswick, making moving power to the U.S. easier. (Nalcor Energy)
The agreement on transmission links goes beyond connections that would be built at the Quebec border and would see "significant" new lines built through all of New Brunswick, Higgs said.
The heads of NB Power and Hydro-Québec will work over the next four to six months on developing a specific proposal that will be presented to the federal government for funding.
The premier said the project should be eligible for federal funding under Ottawa's green infrastructure program, which federal documents say is aimed in part at "new renewable electricity and transmission projects."
Ottawa's help?
"It fits the federal program directly, really," Higgs said.Last Friday, NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas said federal subsidies would create a risk of the United States launching some form of trade retaliation. Canadian energy sent to the U.S. now crosses the border tax-free and tariff-free.
Higgs said he was aware of the concern but said it may be possible to avoid U.S. trade measures because the primary impetus for the upgrade is domestic.
"We need this upgrade just to get power from Quebec coming into Nova Scotia, so that part of it is an internal Canadian solution," he said.
NB Power and Hydro-Québec announced two other agreements Friday. One will see the Quebec utility advise NB Power on refurbishing the Mactaquac Dam, and the other will see NB Power buying more electricity from Hydro-Québec over the next two decades.
About the Author
55 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story. David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Surprise Surprise Surprise
David Raymond Amos
Methinks I need to holler BINGO out of the gate again N'esy Pas?
Ben Haroldson
Look at his eyes, he's been smoking pot.
Omer Samson
I like that picture of Mr. Higgs. I wonder what he's thinking.
Roland Stewart
Reply to @Omer Samson: Looks like he had a rough weekend lol.
Colin Seeley
can’t remember ever looking at a bad photo of Gallant. Speaks volumes about JP.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Colin Seeley: What you see is what you get.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks many folks would enjoy a photo of you N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: no point doing that. We've seen yours and I'm already beaten.
Colin Seeley
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps:
Isn’t that a Daisy.
Isn’t that a Daisy.
Guy Richard
Quebec can't be trusted, there is a hidden agenda here somewhere.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Guy
Richard: You can't trust too many people in this world and Quebec is no
better or worse. Alberta, Newfoundland, New Brunswick as well as all
other provinces are all the same, more particularly when there is money
involved.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: You should know
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Guy Richard: And as predicted, here come the conspiracy theories.
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Guy Richard:
Personally I *think* the deal (with an undersea cable) from Labrador *might* be better?
Personally I *think* the deal (with an undersea cable) from Labrador *might* be better?
Joe Rootliek
Good that Quebec has lots of power. Thing is, they replace NB Power Generation- Generation that really pays down the 4.3 or more billion dollar debt.
When afterwards, you only rely on Mactaquac, to pay down huge debt, and Grand falls, and the transmission tarrifs alone, reduce load on Nuclear at times due to Quebec pushing cheap power through, I leave this question to HIggs- How are you going to pay down that huge Debt?
Stephen Blunston
selling to the US they should be paying fees tarifis and taxes , oh as well as Trudeaus useless carbon tax , it is not right to sell power cheaper to US than NB'ers and we have to pay all the upkeep and pay to have the places cleaned up after
https://twitter.com/
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 49 others
Methinks everybody knows that Minister Mikey or his boss Higgy can stop the "Not So Smart" Meter nonsense with a simple phone call or a stroke of a pen if need be N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/01/interveners-dubious-over-nb-powers.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meters-eub-hearings-1.5425284
Interveners dubious over NB Power's revamped smart meter plan as EUB hearings begin
Utility comes back in front of regulatory board claiming greater savings
· CBC News · Posted: Jan 13, 2020 4:53 PM AT
NB Power has returned to the EUB with a revised smart meters proposal. A similar bid was rejected by the regulator in 2017. (Robert Jones/CBC)
Claims made by NB Power about the financial benefits of installing smart meters for its entire customer base as part of a $92 million advanced metering infrastructure, or AMI, project were quickly under scrutiny at hearings in front of the Energy and Utilities Board on Monday.
But the utility is holding firm in its argument the switch is required and will save it and ratepayers millions of dollars.
"AMI will help us operate more efficiently and reduce costs while offering important direct benefits for our customers," said Senior NB Power Vice president Lori Clark in an opening statement for what is expected to be an eight day examination of the proposal by NB Power's regulator.
"We hope you will agree that we need to invest in AMI now," Clark told the three member panel hearing the proposal. "There is no "do nothing" option."
Lori Clark, NB Power's senior vice president of operations, says the utility can prove smart meters can save ratepayers $31 million. (CBC)
A similar application by the utility in 2017 was eventually rejected by the EUB at hearings in 2018 because it failed to convince the board the investment would generate a net financial gain — a key issue again this time.
"The demonstrated benefits to ratepayers must outweigh the expected costs that ratepayers will bear," the EUB ruled in rejecting NB Power's first application
This time, however, NB Power claims it has improved the application enough so that the "net present value" of benefits from adopting smart meters over 15 years will be $31.1 million more than costs.
"We took the feedback we received from this Board during the AMI hearing in 2018 and worked with a number of industry experts to explore potential savings and costs that we had not previously considered," said Clark in explaining the improved numbers.
Interveners scrutinized NB Power's new smart meter plan on the first day of hearings in front of the EUB. (CBC)
But shortly after Clark's opening statement, the lawyer for J.D. Irving Ltd. began questioning NB Power's calculation of benefits and whether they might be exaggerated.
Drawing on two expert evaluations of NB Power's plan commissioned by the EUB and public intervener Heather Black, Christopher Stewart raised questions about whether NB Power was underestimating the cost of disposing of existing non-smart meters before their useful life is over and overestimating its own ability to keep the project on budget.
He also questioned whether some of the benefits of switching out old analog meters that are suspected of undercounting electricity consumption by homeowners as they age might be solved by adopting cheaper non smart digital meters.
"What's your position with respect to that?" asked Stewart.
Stephanie Langlais, a finance executive with NB Power, rejected the validity of some of Stewart's questions but did acknowledge the benefits of smart meters might be over stated in the business case by not comparing them to the installation of non-smart digital meters.
"The result is a reduction in the net present value of this benefit by $3.2 million," said Langlais.
Stephanie Langlais, a finance executive with NB Power, speaks before the three-member EUB panel Monday. (CBC)
NB Power executives told the hearing they know a number of people are wary of smart meters and said a switch will not be mandatory but customers will likely have to pay a $4 per month penalty to cover the cost of having their meter read.
"A very small minority of customers will remain unconvinced, and that is why we have proposed an opt-out process," said Clark.
"Although this small minority can be very vocal, they do not represent the views of the silent majority. NB Power has a responsibility to act in the best interests of all its customers."
Gerald Bourque, a private citizen and smart meter opponent who registered to participate in the hearing, asked specifically if the units are a fire hazard, based on the recall of 105,000 smart meters in Saskatchewan in 2014.
NB Power's Jill Doucett told Bourque the fires that triggered the Saskatchewan recall are now well understood and have been addressed with new safety features in current models.
"We have reviewed the experience of Saskatchewan and the investigation that was conducted post the installation of the meters and the fires that resulted and in that report there were a number of recommendations we have adhered to," said Doucett.
64 Comments
David Raymond Amos
Surprise Surprise Surprise
David Raymond Amos
Methinks Higgy and Minister Mikey must understand why I holler BINGO so much lately N'esy Pas?
Brad Little
Content disabled
Wow. Looking at this comment board, the "silent majority" is REALLY SILENT
David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Brad Little: Not really it just that many comments are blocked
Fred Brewer
"This time, however, NB Power claims it has improved the application enough so that the "net present value" of benefits from adopting smart meters over 15 years will be $31.1 million more than costs." How can we trust NB Power's due diligence in this matter after the total failure of their due diligence on Joi Magic Beans?
Ben
Haroldson
Reply to @Fred Brewer: you don't have to get that complicated to know what's up. Kiss.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ben
Haroldson: The leader of the KISS party Gerald Bourque who is now just a
private citizen and still smart meter opponent who registered to
participate in the hearing, asked specifically if the units are a fire
hazard, based on the recall of 105,000 smart meters in Saskatchewan in
2014.
Michael Durant
The levels of electromagnetic frequencies (EMF) given off by these new meters are weapon's grade and exceed ( by several magnitudes) safe levels of EMF exposure for human health as determined by researchers and scientists at the University of Montreal and around the world
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Michael
durant: Methinks folks should pay attention to Roger Richard's experts
who will testify next week before the EUB N'esy Pas?
Bob Smith
Bit surprised they didn't say that for every home owner who agrees to smart meter installation, they get shares in JOI Scientific....
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Bob Smith: We already have them
David Raymond Amos
There are no saving to be made by investing more money into a product. It does not reduce your power consumption, it does not reduce the cost of the energy. All it does is permit NB Power to charge more for what they call "Premium Power" at times likely less convenient for the home owner. There is technology out there that provide the same services as a smart meter but discloses the data only to the home owner so they can adjust their usage. (I use one that can report power consumption in 1/2 second intervals so I can see the immediate impact of certain appliances.) In all reports in the last few years the majority of home owners cannot alter their power usage enough to make a significant difference on their bills It does let them choose more efficient appliances, but that only produces a fractional savings for the owner. The only reason NB Power wants smart meters is to provide justification to charge the home owner more! period! If NB Power thinks they can save money with Smart Meters I would be happy to let them subscribe (for a fee) to my data.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Roger Thompson: Well put
David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Roger Thompson: NB Power Speaking of Data New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board
Matter 430
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation
for approval of the schedules of the rates for the fiscal year
commencing April 1, 2019, and other relief as outlined in NB Power’s
application
Held at the Algonquin Hotel, St. Andrews, N.B., on May 11 24th 2019.
Page 729
MR. RUSSELL: Yes. I would like to add a comment. I totally agree with
what Mr. Todd has said.
Page 730
The one thing I would like to remind or mention to the Board is that
we are very concerned about the data, the load research data, that is.
And it seems the problem might be viewed as greater than what it is
because there are many jurisdictions that conduct a cost of service
study and do it on a -- every third year or a fifth year interval. We
just happen to be ramping this up and doing a cost of service every
year. So it appears as if we are coming back with no, you know, bad
data again.
And while there might be a question about the data and how fresh it
is, I think it is important to keep in mind that when we do rate
design, you can look at cost -- the revenue to cost ratios on a
different interval, you know, a three, five year interval and then set
your rate design plan for that interval and gradually work your
classes towards the certain direction that you want to go in.
So having data that’s a little over two years old, while it is not
ideal, you know, you would like to have the fresh data, but it’s not
-- I don’t see it as being too, too grave in terms of what it might do
for the results. We know that with AMI, yes, it’s going to be a lot
better if we get to go with AMI. And we are going to need to start
planning, you know, for the scenario that
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos:
Page 731
we may have AMI or may not have AMI, and what we might have to do. And
so it’s going to take a couple -- probably two, three years before we
get some fresh data.
So I just want to caution the Board in that while the accuracy of the
number may not be 100 percent because you don’t have the latest data,
having two year old data is not that bad, you know, given the
circumstance you would find yourself in if you compare with other
jurisdictions.
MR. TODD: Yes, and I reinforce that because I do do work, cost
allocation studies across -- in many jurisdictions across Canada, out
west. Other than jurisdictions where the companies have smart meters
and therefore have -- you know, that is part of AMI, the precision of
the New Brunswick Power CCS and the use of the load profile
information, you are ahead of all the other companies that I am aware
of, which would be four or five. So I mean, you shouldn’t feel like
you are falling behind your peers in this jurisdiction.
Page 731
we may have AMI or may not have AMI, and what we might have to do. And
so it’s going to take a couple -- probably two, three years before we
get some fresh data.
So I just want to caution the Board in that while the accuracy of the
number may not be 100 percent because you don’t have the latest data,
having two year old data is not that bad, you know, given the
circumstance you would find yourself in if you compare with other
jurisdictions.
MR. TODD: Yes, and I reinforce that because I do do work, cost
allocation studies across -- in many jurisdictions across Canada, out
west. Other than jurisdictions where the companies have smart meters
and therefore have -- you know, that is part of AMI, the precision of
the New Brunswick Power CCS and the use of the load profile
information, you are ahead of all the other companies that I am aware
of, which would be four or five. So I mean, you shouldn’t feel like
you are falling behind your peers in this jurisdiction.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: BINGO
David Raymond Amos
Methinks everybody knows that Minister Mikey or his boss Higgy can stop the "Not So Smart" Meter nonsense with a simple phone call or a stroke of a pen if need be N'esy Pas?
Brian
Robertson
Reply to @David Raymond Amos:
Probably.
But as we see here, NB Power's strategy seems to be the long game; and just bring it back with the next government.
If conservation reduces demand, and our population stagnant, their revenue will depend on increasing the cost of power through smart meter penalties.
Probably.
But as we see here, NB Power's strategy seems to be the long game; and just bring it back with the next government.
If conservation reduces demand, and our population stagnant, their revenue will depend on increasing the cost of power through smart meter penalties.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Brian
Robertson: They already signed the contracts for "Not So Smart" meters
Hence they can't back out without penalties.
Greg Miller
Reply to @David
Raymond Amos: Then they should pay the penalties and someone should pay
the price personally at NB Power. Really--are our elective officials
afraid of NB Power--does NB Power have some hold over our elected
officials. Time to get some intestinal fortitude Government!
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Greg Miller:
Trust that I made certain that Higgy and his cohorts knew about this
"Not So Smart" Meter nonsense long before the last election
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation
for approval of the schedules of the rates for the fiscal year
commencing April 1, 2018. held at the Delta Hotel, Saint John, New
Brunswick, on February 9th 2018.
Transcript Page 601
VICE-CHAIRMAN: I was a bit surprised when I heard this morning and
yesterday that you are entering into a contract at the end of February
and is that with respect to the purchase of the smart meters?
MS. CLARK: That's correct.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So how can you enter into a contract without the firm
approval of this Board, if we are going to approve or not the AMI? How
prudent is that?
MS. CLARK: So we are at the end stages of the contract in terms of
just the final terms and conditions, but we have been very clear that
we -- with the vendor -- and they recognize that, because we also have
Nova Scotia Power, who is part of our consortium, who also needs Board
approval. So should we not get -- this is conditional on EUB approval.
So should we not get EUB approval, the contract would not proceed.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now there was discussion yesterday, I think it was with
Mr. Stoll regarding time of use and time based pricing, and so I went
through the evidence this morning, and in your main evidence, and I
think one of the objective of having the AMI going forward to a time
of use price structure -- rate structure. So am I understanding that
correctly
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation
for approval of the schedules of the rates for the fiscal year
commencing April 1, 2018. held at the Delta Hotel, Saint John, New
Brunswick, on February 9th 2018.
Transcript Page 601
VICE-CHAIRMAN: I was a bit surprised when I heard this morning and
yesterday that you are entering into a contract at the end of February
and is that with respect to the purchase of the smart meters?
MS. CLARK: That's correct.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So how can you enter into a contract without the firm
approval of this Board, if we are going to approve or not the AMI? How
prudent is that?
MS. CLARK: So we are at the end stages of the contract in terms of
just the final terms and conditions, but we have been very clear that
we -- with the vendor -- and they recognize that, because we also have
Nova Scotia Power, who is part of our consortium, who also needs Board
approval. So should we not get -- this is conditional on EUB approval.
So should we not get EUB approval, the contract would not proceed.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now there was discussion yesterday, I think it was with
Mr. Stoll regarding time of use and time based pricing, and so I went
through the evidence this morning, and in your main evidence, and I
think one of the objective of having the AMI going forward to a time
of use price structure -- rate structure. So am I understanding that
correctly
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
MS. CLARK: That is correct. And in the evidence, we did answer an
interrogatory on that and you will see that AMI is an enabler for time
varying rates in the Energy Smart NB Plan. And we did have time
varying rates included in our investment rationale. We took it out,
because we couldn't -- we couldn't pinpoint without more detail as to
what those time varying rates may be and the benefit of those, so we
took them out of the investment rationale at this point in time, but
certainly it's something that we are looking at in the future
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So the fundamental question here is that the Board
should heard -- or hear Matter 357 before approving the AMI? So if we
don't approve time of use, that basically what will happen with your
AMI, I mean it's -- if we don't approve the time of use, which we are
going to hear next year, how can we proceed in approving the AMI
before we look at the rate structure?
MS. CLARK: As we have talked about in our investment rationale, there
are a number of other benefits to both the customer and to the utility
over and above time varying rates that we believe are important for
the utility and for the movement forward of our Energy Smart New
Brunswick plan. Many of those benefits accrue to the customer. And
many of those benefits accrue to the utility and ultimately the
customer. So even if we were not to move in the direction of time
varying rates, we believe that the investment rationale supports the
AMI installation based on the other investment -- or based on the
other benefits that it provides
MS. CLARK: That is correct. And in the evidence, we did answer an
interrogatory on that and you will see that AMI is an enabler for time
varying rates in the Energy Smart NB Plan. And we did have time
varying rates included in our investment rationale. We took it out,
because we couldn't -- we couldn't pinpoint without more detail as to
what those time varying rates may be and the benefit of those, so we
took them out of the investment rationale at this point in time, but
certainly it's something that we are looking at in the future
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So the fundamental question here is that the Board
should heard -- or hear Matter 357 before approving the AMI? So if we
don't approve time of use, that basically what will happen with your
AMI, I mean it's -- if we don't approve the time of use, which we are
going to hear next year, how can we proceed in approving the AMI
before we look at the rate structure?
MS. CLARK: As we have talked about in our investment rationale, there
are a number of other benefits to both the customer and to the utility
over and above time varying rates that we believe are important for
the utility and for the movement forward of our Energy Smart New
Brunswick plan. Many of those benefits accrue to the customer. And
many of those benefits accrue to the utility and ultimately the
customer. So even if we were not to move in the direction of time
varying rates, we believe that the investment rationale supports the
AMI installation based on the other investment -- or based on the
other benefits that it provides
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meters-1.5381596
Experts throw cold water on NB Power's projections for smart meters
Smart meter technology could benefit NB Power and customers, but EUB should be cautious, consultants say
Two expert evaluations of the latest case NB Power is making to install smart meters around New Brunswick raise questions about whether the project will ultimately pay for itself — a critical issue in whether the utility can get the plan approved by the Energy and Utilities Board.
Daymark Energy Advisors of Worcester, Mass., hired by New Brunswick public intervener Heather Black, and Synapse Energy Economics Inc. of Cambridge Massachusetts, hired by the EUB, submitted reports last week.
Both companies suggest the meters are unlikely to produce the 28 per cent return on investment over 15 years that NB Power has been projecting.
NB Power has a hearing in January in front of the EUB, where it is hoping to win approval for its $92-million plan to equip its distribution network with what is known as advanced metering infrastructure, or AMI.
NB
Power's first application to acquire smart meters in 2017 was rejected
in 2018 when the EUB found the costs of the plan were greater than its
benefits. (Robert Jones/CBC NEWS)
Daymark concluded some of the benefits that NB Power claims will flow from the project are likely exaggerated, and a zero per cent return on the investment is possible.
"It is evident that a combination of variations in costs, benefits or selected discount rate could result in the benefit-cost ratio approaching break even," wrote Daymark consultants Kathleen Kelly and Philip DiDomenico in their evaluation of NB Power's plan.
The four consultants who contributed to the Synapse report echoed that analysis and suggested that under "plausible conditions" the project as described could lose money.
"We conclude that the business case is not well documented or justified," said the Synapse report.
"There are plausible future scenarios where the AMI investment might provide net benefits to customers, but there are plausible conditions where it might not."
That is potential trouble for NB Power, which must convince the EUB it's smart meter plan will be cost-effective.
Wants 360,000 smart meters
The utility has already spent or allotted $8 million to the metering project but needs the EUB's permission to allocate the remaining $84 million, which includes the acquisition of 360,000 smart meters for installation with NB Power's entire residential and commercial customer base.
NB Power has been submitting written evidence in support of the application since August, and it is that material consultants were asked to evaluate.
A similar application in 2017 was eventually rejected by the EUB because NB Power failed to convince the board the investment would generate a net financial benefit for the utility — a key issue again this time.
"The demonstrated benefits to ratepayers must outweigh the expected costs that ratepayers will bear," the EUB ruled in rejecting NB Power's first application
Wireless meter readers
AMI is a collection of physical and digital upgrades to the electrical grid, including the installation of smart meters that will allow NB Power to collect individual consumption data electronically in real time from customers instead of once a month by a meter reader.
The utility has said this will allow for all sorts of pricing and service innovations that the current electrical grid cannot deliver, such as offering different electricity prices at different times of the day to match periods of low and high demand.
It will also allow for instant identification and location of outages and let customers track their own daily electrical consumption so they can make changes to head off large monthly bills if they choose.
In its first application to adopt the technology NB Power's own numbers showed costs of the plan outweighed its benefits, but the utility has reworked the numbers and now claims there will be a significant net benefit.
The current application claims that the "net present value" of project costs will amount to $109.6 million over a 15-year period, including interest costs against benefits of $140.7 million — a net gain for the utility of $31.1 million, or 28.4 per cent.
Public
intervener Heather Black hired Daymark Energy Advisors to evaluate NB
Power's $92-million plan to deploy smart meter technology. The
consultants found projected benefits of the plan to be exaggerated. (Robert Jones/CBC)
A number of benefits are not in dispute — these include savings NB Power will generate by eliminating manual meter reading costs — but both Daymark and Synapse question whether other benefits being claimed for the project are reliable.
Each questioned whether NB Power's estimate that it would gain $11.5 million in benefits from smart meters being more accurate than older analog meters is reasonable. Older meters are suspected of undercounting customer consumption amounts as they age.
Synapse noted the $11.5-million benefit was twice as large as claimed in the first application, and Daymark pointed out that accuracy benefits are not unique to smart meters and should not be counted as though they are.
"This benefit can also be achieved through a non-AMI option by installing digital meters to replace analog meters," said the Daymark report.
"So a better savings estimation methodology would calculate the difference in benefits arising from improved meter accuracy with respect to AMI as compared to the adoption of digital meters."
Skeptical about new savings
Similarly, the two consultants each raised doubts about a new $15.4 million saving NB Power did not have in its original application but now says will flow from being able to warn customers of excessive wintertime-power use with a "high bill alert service."
It costs NB Power more to supply electricity from its least efficient generating stations on high-demand winter days than it charges for the power. An alert system able to show customers during a cold snap how their consumption is piling up could help cut demand and save both consumers and NB Power money.
But Daymark argued NB Power's estimate of $15.4 million in savings from alerts assumes extreme levels of public participation in the program and is likely 40 percent too high.
Synapse separately concluded true savings from alerts may halve what NB Power estimates.
"The High Bill Alert program has not been designed, and estimates of savings for this program are poorly supported and may be overstated," said the Synapse report.
Electricity
from NB Power's generating station at Coleson Cove in Saint John costs
twice as much to generate as it sells for. The utility believes smart
meters will help it get consumers to cut down on their peak winter power
use and help it save millions. (Matthew Bingley/CBC News file photo)
Both consultants agreed the adoption of smart meter technology could benefit both NB Power and its customers but each recommended the EUB proceed cautiously.
"Given that the Company's business case is not entirely clear on the net benefits of the proposed AMI, we recommend that the Board conditionally approve the AMI [but] the Board should require the Company submit a revised application," concluded the Synapse report.
Daymark suggested that if the project is approved, the EUB should monitor it closely and require quarterly reporting.
NB Power is entitled to question the authors of each report in writing and to receive answers by Dec. 23. The utility is also entitled to submit rebuttal evidence if its chooses.
The EUB hearing is scheduled for eight days beginning on Jan. 13.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
76 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.David Amos
Surprise Surprise Surprise
David Amos
Reply to @: Yo Roger Notice you only see our backs?
Roger Richard
Reply to @David Amos: That is because you are my mentor. Without your guidance, I would be wimping out in Facebook...
David Amos
Reply to @Roger Richard: You are not definitely not Whimpy
Methinks everybody knows that you stood your ground against RCMP intimidation long before I met you N'esy Pas?
Methinks everybody knows that you stood your ground against RCMP intimidation long before I met you N'esy Pas?
David Amos
If anyone wishes to
recall before the last election the EUB denied this Smart Meter Nonsense
while the liberals promised to freeze the power rates for 3 years or so
just like Higgy's old boss Alward did in 2010. Since Higgy and the PANB
seized control of the government a year ago NB Powewr rates have been
increased after a late filing and another is on its heels. Plus
obviously the request for big bucks for smart meters is back on the
table as well. Methinks its strange that nobody has asked
SteveRyan
Beware the numbers
these people are quoting. Any good manager knows how to fudge numbers
in order for them to show the desired result.
I know all about fudging numbers as that was my job.'
I know all about fudging numbers as that was my job.'
David Amos
Reply to @SteveRyan: For whom did you work?
Ben
Haroldson
Anyone that would click on a link in on a social media site... well...we all know how that goes.
David Amos
Reply to @Ben
Haroldson: Methinks the EUB website is not social media but the public
should study it closely like Mr Jones pretends to do N'esy Pas?
David Amos
"It costs NB Power
more to supply electricity from its least efficient generating stations
on high-demand winter days than it charges for the power."
Yea Right
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/cheap-coal-nb-power-1.5374498
Cheap coal stoking NB Power's bottom line — for now
Utility reports it is on track to beat its profit target for the first time in five years
Robert Jones · CBC News · Posted: Nov 27, 2019 7:00 AM AT
Yea Right
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/cheap-coal-nb-power-1.5374498
Cheap coal stoking NB Power's bottom line — for now
Utility reports it is on track to beat its profit target for the first time in five years
Robert Jones · CBC News · Posted: Nov 27, 2019 7:00 AM AT
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos:
The truth, as they say in Quebec, she is very, very, "fluid"
The truth, as they say in Quebec, she is very, very, "fluid"
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: I ain't a Quebecker
Roger
Williams
My meter was replaced
with a smart meter last May. There has been no change in my charges. We
are retired, so we can try to avoid peak usage times. It would be nice
to actually get some benefit of doing this. My thought is that the rates
will go up as we cut back our usage. It would be of benefit if the
rates were lower for the first usage range and higher for upper ranges.
Roger Richard
Reply to @Roger
Williams: Are you from St. John or from Shédiac? I totally support your
idea that rates were higher for upper ranges. As you know, it is
difficult to cut back usage if you are a young family trying to meet the
end of the month payments.
Mike
Morton
I
can't speak for everyone, but I know I can speak for some people when I
say I and my family have put significant effort into reducing our
electricity use already. Programmable thermostats, LED lights, we are a
sweater and slipper house in the winter. Sending a note out to advise
me that I am about to use power at peak times will have little effect on
changing our behavior. We've cut as much as we can, we need heat to
keep warm...
Luis Amaral
Reply to @Mike
Morton: But by doing that you are cutting into NBPower profits and thats
why they permanently need to raise rates. On hand they tout the
benefits of going green to reduce usage but on the other hand they keep
raising rates so in the end the consumer is out of pocket for the
upgrades, but pays the same for usage and the utility can then sell the
extra electricity saved to someone else and pocket even more money. Its a
never ending cycle and we are never ahead of the game.
David Amos
Reply to @Luis Amaral: BINGO
Karl
Patterson
Seems like a lot of trouble to go to just to scruw a few meter readers out of a job.
David Amos
Reply to @Karl
Patterson: Methinks you forgot that they are also putting over 100
million in the pockets of their corporate buddies N'esy Pas?
Helen Gorne
Haven't we recently
and historically heard of other New Brunswick projects that echo this
quote ? "estimates of savings for this program are poorly supported
and may be overstated," said the Synapse report. " Over and over
again, and made poorer because it has such a bad track record that it
has to spend money, as in this Smart Meter review, to prevent it from
spending even more which in the end comes down to nothing other than
more taxation for its citizens.
David Amos
Reply to @Helen Gorne: I agree
John
Valcourt
We are finally seeing
other professionals who see this as a bad idea instead of NBPower's
professionals suggesting it is a good idea and will save us all money.
NBPower has never done anything to save consumers money. If they did
they wouldn't be proposing increases every year to give themselves
bigger bonus' instead of trying to solve power issues.
Helen Gorne
Reply to @John
Valcourt: Quote " NBPower's professionals" ? Isn't that a
contradiction of terms when used in the same sentence?
Bryan Jones
Reply to @Helen
Gorne: NB Power's professionals have more in common with a couple of
British detectives from the 70's driving around in a Ford Capri than
they have with leaders in business.
Helen Gorne
Reply to @Stephen Long: Hey... I had Capri... Ghia... 2.8.. "breathed on"... went like "s *** off a shovel"...
David Amos
Reply to @John Valcourt: Deja Vu?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/moe-hitts-ford-nuclear-reactors-1.5379351
"Methinks somebody should explain to Higgy real slow that we can buy all the power we need from Quebec at a reasonable rate without having to invest a dime playing with more nukes N'esy Pas?"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/moe-hitts-ford-nuclear-reactors-1.5379351
"Methinks somebody should explain to Higgy real slow that we can buy all the power we need from Quebec at a reasonable rate without having to invest a dime playing with more nukes N'esy Pas?"
Justin Time
Reply to @David Amos:
The problem is security of supply. If power isn't available in January
from Quebec (for whatever reason) then it poses a serious problem if New
Brunswick doesn't have backup. Plus in order to participate in the
North American power market, utilities have to demonstrate that they
have a certain amount of reserve. When Belledune and/or Coleson Cove
fossil stations are shut completely down the remaining reserves will not
be enough.
Ben Haroldson
So
who's building the meters, and who's on their board? That's the
question that needs to be asked before, not after, the transaction.
Bryan Jones
Reply to @Ben
Haroldson: Perhaps NB Power will buy shares in the company building the
meters, but only if they are powered by sea water.
Roger Richard
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: We have at lest three American on our board... An American company is building the meters.
Alex Butt
There is absolutely
no reason whatsoever for NB power to waste all our money switching to
these so called smart meters other than yet another excuse for Mr thomas
to raise our rates even higher! When will this province ever wake up
and put an end to all this mismanagement and stupidity and start to hold
the execs at Nb power accountable for all that they have done?
David Amos
Reply to @Alex Butt: Deja Vu?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/moe-hitts-ford-nuclear-reactors-1.5379351
"Methinks folks should not forget that Mr Higgs and his minions want to borrow a hundred million loonies to buy smart meters so they can monitor just how much we are taking advantage of nuclear power already N'esy Pas?"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/moe-hitts-ford-nuclear-reactors-1.5379351
"Methinks folks should not forget that Mr Higgs and his minions want to borrow a hundred million loonies to buy smart meters so they can monitor just how much we are taking advantage of nuclear power already N'esy Pas?"
Dave Peters
How did we go from
130M$ In their last submission to 92M$ this time for projected costs. I
see no one speaking to this? Perhaps the supplier dropped their price.
Labour costs would not change that is for sure. Did Sask Power pull
these meters off peoples house's. Our utility has a flair for the
dramatic lately. Perhaps leadership is worn out and begging for a
replacement.
Roger Richard
Reply to @Dave Peters: I think so too: replacement.
Richard Dunn
The SMART thing to do is replace the CEO of NBPower.
David Amos
Reply to @Richard Dunn: He is gone in short order anyway
Terry
Tibbs
"An alert system able
to show customers during a cold snap how their consumption is piling up
could help cut demand and save both consumers and NB Power money."
Please explain to me how this is a help? If we are in a cold snap and I'm heating with electricity, what good does telling me I'm using a lot of electricity do for me, or modify my behavior. Especially if my first priority is not freezing to death?
We "need" smart meters about as much as we need more politicians.
Please explain to me how this is a help? If we are in a cold snap and I'm heating with electricity, what good does telling me I'm using a lot of electricity do for me, or modify my behavior. Especially if my first priority is not freezing to death?
We "need" smart meters about as much as we need more politicians.
Corrie Weatherfield
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: agree. there will always be different efficiencies from
different generating plants, but if the main support for the plan is to
reduce demand at times that require use of the less efficient plants,
why not put some effort into making those plants more efficient?
Roger Richard
Reply to @BruceJack Speculator: Or just buy our electricity from our neighbouring provinces: hydroelectric carbone free.
Tom Smith
Yet again, another
common program available in all other normal municipalities around
Canada, but somehow NB can seem to be willing to adopt.
Smart Meters would allow consumers some control over their bills which has a net benefit to their wallets AND a side benefit to reducing power consumption which helps our environment.
Get with it!
Smart Meters, Water Meters, Curbside Recycling ...
Smart Meters would allow consumers some control over their bills which has a net benefit to their wallets AND a side benefit to reducing power consumption which helps our environment.
Get with it!
Smart Meters, Water Meters, Curbside Recycling ...
Terry
Tibbs
Reply to @Tom Smith:
If you believe, for one moment, that a utility company insists on spending a 100 Million, and does not intend on recovering AT LEAST their cost from their subscribers, then I want some of that stuff you are smoking.
If you believe, for one moment, that a utility company insists on spending a 100 Million, and does not intend on recovering AT LEAST their cost from their subscribers, then I want some of that stuff you are smoking.
Corrie Weatherfield
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: agree. highly unlikely that a given bill would be LESS. what I
am thinking is something like this: today all power is about 11.2 cents
plus HST per kWh for residential. probably under smart meters it would
be something like 15 cents or more at peak time and 12 cents minimum.
Tom Smith
Reply to @Terry Tibbs:
A Smart Meter allows NB Power to run their operation more efficiently,
which would save them money in the long run. Even if they aim to be
revenue neutral, and it turns out you get a 5% ROI, then they are coming
out ahead.
The benefit from the consumer side is that it allows NB Power to implement a time-of-day cost structure, which gives them the ability to charge a premium to daytime users, and offer discounts to consumers that are willing to turn their lights off during the day, or turn down their heat when they aren't around.
The benefit to NB power is that by reducing daytime demand, they are able to cut down on peak power generation, saving them tons of money.
I haven't been 'smoking' anything ... these programs have been rolled out time and time again and the benefits to both the consumer and utility are well known and documented .
The benefit from the consumer side is that it allows NB Power to implement a time-of-day cost structure, which gives them the ability to charge a premium to daytime users, and offer discounts to consumers that are willing to turn their lights off during the day, or turn down their heat when they aren't around.
The benefit to NB power is that by reducing daytime demand, they are able to cut down on peak power generation, saving them tons of money.
I haven't been 'smoking' anything ... these programs have been rolled out time and time again and the benefits to both the consumer and utility are well known and documented .
Terry
Tibbs
Reply to @Tom Smith:
NO. NONE of the above.
If NB Power wants to save money they can clean out their dead wood starting at the top.
NO. NONE of the above.
If NB Power wants to save money they can clean out their dead wood starting at the top.
Tom Smith
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Oh no ... not ALL CAPS ... you must be right then ... my bad
David Amos
Reply to @Tom Smith: Dream on
Roger Richard
Reply to @Tom Smith: Show the documents.
pete prosser
No
David Amos
Reply to @pete prosser: YUP
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