---------- Original message ---------
Date: Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 11:45 AM
Subject: Automatic reply: Is Higgs's criticism of lawsuit naming nurses a legitimate gripe? Lawyer explains
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
Thank you for contacting the Honourable Rob Moore, P.C., M.P. office. We appreciate the time you took to get in touch with our office.
If you did not already, please ensure to include your full contact details on your email and the appropriate staff will be able to action your request. We strive to ensure all constituent correspondence is responded to in a timely manner.
If your question or concern is time sensitive, please call our office: 506-832-4200.
Again, we thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Office of the Honourable Rob Moore, P.C., M.P.
Member of Parliament for Fundy Royal
From: Ministerial Correspondence Unit - Justice Canada <mcu@justice.gc.ca>
Date: Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 11:45 AM
Subject: Automatic Reply
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
Thank you for writing to the Honourable Arif Virani, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.
Due to the volume of correspondence addressed to the Minister, please note that there may be a delay in processing your email. Rest assured that your message will be carefully reviewed.
We do not respond to correspondence that contains offensive language.
-------------------
Merci d'avoir écrit à l'honorable Arif Virani, ministre de la Justice et procureur
général du Canada.
En raison du volume de correspondance adressée au ministre, veuillez
prendre note qu'il pourrait y avoir un retard dans le traitement de
votre courriel. Nous tenons à vous assurer que votre message sera lu
avec soin.
Nous ne répondons pas à la correspondance contenant un langage offensant.
Date: Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 12:02 PM
Subject: Fwd: Is Higgs's criticism of lawsuit naming nurses a legitimate gripe? Lawyer explains
To: chuck.chiasson <chuck.chiasson@gnb.ca>, Rene.Legacy <Rene.Legacy@gnb.ca>, <jean-pierre.ouellet@haut-madawaska.com>, <jpouelle21@gmail.com>, <john.williston@dplwireless.com>, <mphillip@nbnet.nb.ca>, michelle.conroy <michelle.conroy@gnb.ca>, ernie.steeves <ernie.steeves@gnb.ca>, Greg.Turner <Greg.Turner@gnb.ca>, Gary.Crossman <Gary.Crossman@gnb.ca>, robert.gauvin <robert.gauvin@gnb.ca>, mary.wilson <mary.wilson@gnb.ca>, sherry.wilson <sherry.wilson@gnb.ca>, jill.green <jill.green@gnb.ca>, Mike.Dawson <Mike.Dawson@gnb.ca>, Richard.Ames <Richard.Ames@gnb.ca>, Marco.LeBlanc <Marco.LeBlanc@gnb.ca>, guy.arseneault <guy.arseneault@gnb.ca>
Cc: ragingdissident <ragingdissident@protonmail.com>, Robert. Jones <Robert.Jones@cbc.ca>, <Rob.weir.riverview@gmail.com>, <Steve.Outhouse@gnb.ca>, Richard.Bragdon <Richard.Bragdon@parl.gc.ca>, John.Williamson <John.Williamson@parl.gc.ca>, <sam.johnston@miramichi.org>, <b.phinney@sackville.com>, <connielarson.nbliberal@gmail.com>, <info@pcnb.ca>, <davemonctoncentre@gmail.com>, <michelmorinpcnb49@gmail.com>, <marcandrerosspcnb47@gmail.com>, <vote4chippin@outlook.com>, <info@votefaytene.ca>, pierre.poilievre <pierre.poilievre@parl.gc.ca>, prontoman1 <prontoman1@protonmail.com>
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Date: Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 11:42 AM
Subject: Is Higgs's criticism of lawsuit naming nurses a legitimate gripe? Lawyer explains
To: <jshapiro@dal.ca>, blaine.higgs <blaine.higgs@gnb.ca>, hugh.flemming <hugh.flemming@gnb.ca>, Susan.Holt <Susan.Holt@gnb.ca>, David.Coon <David.Coon@gnb.ca>, Mitton, Megan (LEG) <megan.mitton@gnb.ca>, Arseneau, Kevin (LEG) <kevin.a.arseneau@gnb.ca>, kris.austin <kris.austin@gnb.ca>, michelle.conroy <michelle.conroy@gnb.ca>, Mike.Comeau <Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca>, Dominic.Cardy <Dominic.Cardy@gnb.ca>, dominic.leblanc <dominic.leblanc@parl.gc.ca>, Ross.Wetmore <Ross.Wetmore@gnb.ca>, bruce.fitch <bruce.fitch@gnb.ca>, briangallant10 <briangallant10@gmail.com>, BrianThomasMacdonald <BrianThomasMacdonald@gmail.
Cc: Jason Lavigne <jason@yellowhead.vote>, Jacques.Poitras <Jacques.Poitras@cbc.ca>, rob.moore <rob.moore@parl.gc.ca>, andrea.anderson-mason <andrea.anderson-mason@gnb.ca>
Is Higgs's criticism of lawsuit naming nurses a legitimate gripe? Lawyer explains
There are legal and tactical reasons to name individuals in lawsuit, says law professor
When his students are unsure, Dalhousie law professor Jonathan Shapiro tells them it's always safer to overname when filing lawsuits.
That's because it's easier to drop names from a lawsuit than add them down the road when it might be too late. It's a normal practice in lawsuits against private companies, Shapiro said, but one that Premier Blaine Higgs is taking issue with in a case involving a regional health authority.
Higgs issued a statement over the weekend urging the family of a man who died in the Fredericton emergency department not to name individual nurses in their lawsuit against Horizon Health Network.
Darrell Mesheau, 78, spent about seven hours in the waiting room of the Dr. Everett Chalmers Regional Hospital ER before he was discovered slumped and motionless in a wheelchair by a licensed practical nurse around 4:30 a.m. on July 12, 2022. His sister, Susan Mesheau, is the executor of his estate and filed the notice of action this month.
The lawsuit names Danielle Othen, a registered nurse who triaged Mesheau, and April Knowles, a licensed practical nurse tasked with monitoring patients.
Higgs said there was already an inquiry into Mesheau's death, which "highlighted important changes that needed to be made."
"The inquiry did not find any instances of negligence on the part of these nurses. To suggest otherwise by naming them in the lawsuit is unacceptable."
When reached on the weekend, Susan Mesheau said the family had no further comment. So while the family's lawyer's strategy is not known, Shapiro said there are legal and strategic reasons to name individuals in a lawsuit.
Suing the government versus suing a private company
Shapiro, who's been a teaching fellow at the Schulich School of Law for more than 10 years and was previously a lawyer for the federal department of justice, pointed out that when someone sues the government, there's actually a statute that prevents them from naming individuals.
For example, if someone was suing an RCMP officer or a prison guard, you would just name the Crown as the defendant.
Jonathan Shapiro is a teaching fellow at Dalhousie University's Schulich School of Law in Nova Scotia. (Submitted by Jonathan Shapiro)
"When you're dealing with a private lawsuit, it's ordinary, normal in many circumstances, to name, for example, a company and its employees," Shapiro said.
While there's government overlay in the case of Mesheau, Shapiro said the family is not actually directly suing the government, but rather a company that is contracted by the government.
The early stages of a lawsuit
When a lawsuit is in its very early stages and a statement of defence has not yet been filed — like in the case of Mesheau's family — naming a person in a lawsuit and that person ultimately being held responsible are two very different things, Shapiro said.
"If I were the lawyer for the nurses, I'd be saying to them, you don't have that much to worry about here," Shapiro said.
He acknowledged it's very stressful to be named in a lawsuit, and said he understands Higgs's concern about causing that anxiety for health-care workers.
"We're in a health-care crisis across this country. It is very hard to keep and attract skilled labour, and nurses are amongst those. If nurses are afraid that when they're doing their legitimate jobs, they'll end up named personally in lawsuits, they might not want to stick around in the province," Shapiro said.
That's why he also tells his students that if they're going to name someone in a lawsuit, they should consider the repercussions for that person. Still, a lawyer may decide to name someone as a way to apply pressure to the case, and that's part of doing their job and representing their client in the best way possible.
Vicarious liability
Naming individuals in a lawsuit requires extra time and resources during the legal process, Shapiro said, which can end up being a waste if those names are dropped.
So why do it?
One reason is vicarious liability, which Shapiro said is the concept that employers are responsible for the actions of their employees.
If a company guarantees vicarious liability will apply, there's usually no reason to name individuals in a lawsuit, Shapiro said.
Darrell
Mesheau, 78, sat in the waiting room of the Dr. Everett Chalmers
Regional Hospital emergency room for about seven hours before he was
discovered unresponsive around 4:30 a.m. on July 12, 2022. (Darrell Mesheau/Facebook)
But if vicarious liability is not guaranteed, then it's in the best interest of the lawyer who's filing the lawsuit to name the individuals involved, in case the employer being sued decides to say in its defence that the employee is at fault, not them.
If that happens and a lawyer hasn't named that employee in the lawsuit, then it could be either difficult to add them to the lawsuit — requiring more time and resources — or it might not even be possible, due to statutes of limitations. The lawyer is then at risk of being sued by their client.
If the employer formally guarantees vicarious liability after the statement of claim has been filed, it's likely the individual names will be dropped from the lawsuit, Shapiro said.
In Mesheau's case, it's unclear whether vicarious liability is guaranteed. While it's true the provincial government will cover the legal fees of the nurses, as well as any legal punishment that results from the lawsuit, that's not a reason to not name the individuals in the lawsuit, Shapiro said.
Can Higgs ban naming health-care professionals?
In his weekend statement, Higgs said if he's re-elected, he'll introduce legislation that bans the naming of individual health-care workers in lawsuits.
Higgs can technically do this, Shapiro said, though he's not aware of any precedent for it, nor any other province that has introduced similar legislation.
He anticipates one major drawback to that kind of legislation, however — cases where vicarious liability does not apply, or cases where the action was so extreme that the limits of vicarious liability are exposed.
"One of the things about vicarious liability that's limited is that if the employee's behaviour is either not covered by their job description or wildly negligent, well outside of what an employer would expect their employee to do, then the employer's not responsible," Shapiro said.
"In that environment, you really do have to sue the individual."
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Content Deactivated
David Amos
Content Deactivated
I wonder if he refers to my lawsuit as he teaches law
Content Deactivated
Reply to Al Clark
Reply to Al Clark
Content Deactivated
Pretty much the same issue isn't it?...these nurses knew or ought to have known the ER was dangerously under staffed...
Reply to Holley Hardin
Reply to Gregory Wulf
Reply to Gregory Wulf
Reply to Al Clark
Content Deactivated
Reply to Robert Brannen
Reply to William Peters
There's no need to name them
Reply to Marc LeBlanc
Completely disagree with this lawyer and what they stand for. Naming nurses was wrong.
Bill Hanson
Reply to John Dutton
ever heard the quip about asking a lawyer what's right and wrong
and being advised on how to stay out of court?
David Amos
Reply to Bill Hanson
Yup
Half a decade in power and not a single school yet built in Saint John. Higgs couldn't care less about your child's education. He only cares about introducing conservative curriculum in the class. It all about identity politics with Higgs. He's obsessed.
David Amos
Reply to Kyle Woodman
IMHO Cardy ran the circus Higgy was just the ringmaster
SarahRose Werner
"He acknowledged it's very stressful to be named in a lawsuit" - But he thinks over-naming should be done anyway because it's easier for the lawyers. Yeah, there's a reason there are so many lawyer jokes.
David Amos
Reply to SarahRose Werner
Perhaps you are beginning to understand my jokes
Clive Gibbons
Reply to SarahRose Werner
They're not jokes though...
I have been ill for over a month and i know i need an ekg. i'm afraid to go to the ER, i dont want to sit there until i die.
valmond landry
Reply to Sandra Boudreau
you can always come to vitality in bathurst you'll be treated well i find everything well organized .although their might be some exception they go by priority .
Bill Hanson
Reply to Sandra Boudreau
if you "need" an ECG
go to a lab
or the lab in the hospital
or are you saying you are having cardiac symptoms?
in which case...you will be top of the list at the ER
David Amos
Reply to valmond landry
I could not go the Horizon System for years without the possibility of being arrested again assaulted again but my new doctor directs me there and its been ok lately
Bill Hanson
well...I've been sued by a psych patient's estate after a suicide
an extremely gruesome event...bit of an 'inward bruise"
both my employer and I were named in the suit
not fun....about 6 months of being told by the hospital's lawyer that there was no case followed by about 3 months of going to court and hearing why we/I was at fault
and the Jury found us to be not negligent
but that doesn't make it easier
I should have called in sick that day
David Amos
Content Deactivated
Reply to Bill Hanson
Perhaps your patient would have fared better if you called in sick that day Eh?
David Amos
Reply to Bill Hanson
Oh My My
David Amos
Reply to Bill Hanson
Remember when I was assaulted in the DECH ER???
Reply to David Amos
Reply to Bill Hanson
Reply to David Amos
Reply to Bill Hanson
Reply to David Amos
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/health-care-new-brunswick-hospital-1.6548373
Great advice - ruin the lives of people just because you did not do your research.
"When his students are unsure, ... professor Shapiro tells ... to overname...because it's easier to drop names from a lawsuit than add them down the road..."
David Amos
Reply to Samual Johnston
Look who keeps naming them
Deborah Reddon
Once again, Higgs acts out like a child and speaks on issues he has no knowledge of. His retirement is coming soon.
Robert Snider
Reply to Deborah Reddon
Don't be too sure of that tho
David Amos
Reply to Robert Snider
I agree with both of you
Lorelei Stott
I'm voting for Higgs but I don't like his stance on this one, less government intervention more transparency please
Deborah Reddon
Reply to Lorelei Stott
Not a chance Higgs should be in power. His lack of knowledge on issues has already caused the citizens on NB millions in damages as he acted inappropriately.. He seems unable to hold his tongue and let those who are knowledgeable speack for the government.
David Amos
Content Deactivated
Reply to Lorelei Stott
Why waste your vote on a clown?
David Amos
Reply to Lorelei Stott
Too Too Funny
Gilles Vienneau
Higgs never hesitated to name Dr Ngola and Horizon CEO Dornan, did he? So thie "rule" of his doesn't apply to him, just other. Reminds me of an orange clown...
David Amos
Reply to Gilles Vienneau
Good Point
He has presidential immunity?
Jonathan Shapiro
University Teaching Fellow
Email: jshapiro@dal.ca
Phone: 902-494-4294
Mailing Address:
PO Box 15000 Halifax, Nova Scotia B3H 4R2
- Law
- Criminal law
- Administrative law
- Immigration and refugee law
- National security
Education
- BA Hons (UBC)
- LLB (Dalhousie)
- LLM (Columbia)
Bar admissions
- British Columbia, 2003
- Nova Scotia, 2007
Teaching
Professor Shapiro practiced law for 10 years with the Department of Justice Canada prior to joining the faculty of the law school. His primary area of teaching is in working with students to develop practical legal skills such as persuasive legal writing and oral advocacy.
Areas of substantive teaching interest include: Criminal Law, Civil Procedure, Constitutional Law and Immigration Law. He has also taught Introduction to Law for several years, which is a course offered by the law school to non-law school students.
Research interests
Professor Shapiro's primary research interest is the intersection of criminal law and administrative areas of law, particularly where there are overlapping interests, such as the use of immigration measures as a way of dealing with national security threats.
No comments:
Post a Comment