Can anybody tell what people commented about the CBC News about the crooks Mikey Duffy and David Emerson pissed me off?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mike-duffy-lawyer-announcement-1.4260510

Mike Duffy is suing the Senate, federal government for $8M

Senator is suing for punitive damages related to the Senate expenses scandal

By John Paul Tasker, CBC News Posted: Aug 24, 2017 11:59 AM ET 

Sen. Mike Duffy is suing the federal government and the Senate for damages stemming from his criminal trial over his Senate expenses. Duffy was acquitted of all charges in 2016. (Justin Tang/Canadian Press) 

2390 Comments Commenting is now closed for this story.

My two bits worth 

http://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.ca/2017/08/for-public-record-i-just-lawrence.html

Thursday, 24 August 2017

For the PUBLIC Record I just called Lawrence Greenspon, Duffy's lawyer and reminded him of my lawsuit and his assistant asked for the same email again so you get it too

David Allan

@David Raymond Amos

"In my humble opinion if Democracy and Justice is ever to be served Judges and Senators must be elected to hold limited terms of office"

What are your qualifications for selecting a judge? Who are your picks for the current open positions?

When justice becomes subject to electoral popularity instead of professional ability and political accountability, justice itself is undermined.

No country's populace is qualified to elect a judge.

Content disabled.

David Raymond Amos

@David Allan "This is an interesting peek into your mind."

It was kinda funny and scary eh?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/data-is-the-new-oil-1.4259677 

'Data is the new oil': Your personal information is now the world's most valuable commodity

   
538 Comments

Commenting is now closed for this story.

 

Jacques LaPalmier

"Your personal information is now the world's most valuable commodity"

Funny, nobody is paying me like it is.

Content disabled.

David Raymond Amos

@Jacques LaPalmier The Feds know some of my info is worth a fortune Check out some old Data that even Google or Yahoo wouldn't share but Twitter certainly does on a daily basis

https://www.scribd.com/doc/2718120/integrity-yea-right

David Raymond Amos

@David Raymond Amos Thank you CBC you just proved my point in spades

 http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-pollcast-benzie-1.4260777?__vfz=profile_comment%3D6866200009619#vf-7492700009700


  
David Allan

I find it amusing that the same people who say it's impossible are the same people who laugh at the majority who thought Trump wouldn't be POTUS.

David Raymond Amos

@David Allan CBC blocked my response to you within another comment section for rather obvious reasons. Whereas you sing the praisse of the USA then you must be aware that judges are elected in some US State N'esy Pas?

David Raymond Amos 

@David Allan Your parting words

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mike-duffy-lawyer-announcement-1.4260510

David Allan

@David Raymond Amos

"In my humble opinion if Democracy and Justice is ever to be served Judges and Senators must be elected to hold limited terms of office"

What are your qualifications for selecting a judge? Who are your picks for the current open positions?

When justice becomes subject to electoral popularity instead of professional ability and political accountability, justice itself is undermined.

No country's populace is qualified to elect a judge.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/data-is-the-new-oil-1.4259677?__vfz=profile_comment%3D6866200009619#vf-1084000009813


 
Jack Brossard

Hmm does personal data provide hundreds of billion to government coffers like O+G does???

I dont think so...

David Allan

@Jack Brossard

Hey, any day a fascist gets flagged is a good day.

" I am flagged for not conforming to liberalism."
Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.

Why do you hate liberty and equality?

David Raymond Amos

@David Allan The use of Data is one topic I know a lot about besides my doings with many politicians and judges and lawyers Just ask the people found on pages 1 and 2 of this very old document of mine

https://www.scribd.com/doc/2718120/integrity-yea-right

 

Ed Toogood

This only demonstrates how peculiar capitalism really is. A commodity with no real existence (data) is being used to create something else with no real existence (money).

David Allan

@Rick James
"a handshake really isn't real either. it's a ritualistic culteral symbolism....again a percieved value"

Interesting perspective.

Perhaps you don't know that you can't touch anything. That at the atomic level the electrons in your hand repel the electrons in the other person's hand. You never actually touch.

David Raymond Amos

@Ed Toogood I marvel at the same sort of things on a daily basis

David Raymond Amos

@David Allan Show me an electron and then I may believe your theory

Ed Toogood

@Steve Cowell
Have you noticed that the data companies (Google etc.) make obscene profits, and all they really do is move information around?
Data is valuable, but it has no tangible reality. Money, in the form of cash, actually has more, but it's still basically nothing more than a symbol or an idea. Really, it's a type of data.

David Raymond Amos 

@Ed Toogood True However Money either in paper or coin or digital entry backed by Gold which a fairly rare and very tangible element is the most powerful thing in this wonderful old world.

It has been a small wonder to me why the Russians and Chinese have been trading Yankee petrodollars for real gold by the ton for years. Clearly they know the Banksters Golden Rule which my brother a Banker, my sister a Lawyer and and I a Businessman were taught by our Father a Taxman and many others in our early years on this planet. The aforesaid rule is as follows:

He with the Gold Makes the Rules

David Raymond Amos

@Ed Toogood Speaking of Data and Money I wonder if any of the "Big Five" have the data of the missing the transcript & webcast of a very important public hearing held by the US Senate Banking Committee in November of 2003? Trust that that would be a very valuable commodity.

Notice who testified?

https://www.banking.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/hearings?ID=90F8E691-9065-4F8C-A465-72722B47E7F2

 

David Raymond Amos

@Ed Toogood Trust that the use and importance of retaining electronic data is something I am very familiar with. Please compare the date found in the link I offered above to the dates found on the letters to me on pages 1, 2, and 13 of an old file of mine found within the link below.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/2718120/integrity-yea-right

In my humble opinion the most valuable data of all is about Banksters

 

David Conway

My neighbor was celebrating the other day. Someone stole his identity. He's debt free now.

David Raymond Amos

@David Conway Nobody wants to be me

 

 

Steve Kennedy

Who said this world is not controlled by the corporate class and their corporations?

David Raymond Amos

@Steve Kennedy "Who said this world is not controlled by the corporate class and their corporations?"

I will take a wild guess and say Steve Harper

 

Alexandre Guay

If government legislation fails to protect consumers, then it's up to the consumers to wake up and protect themselves. We need to practice self-awareness and stop relying on government to do everything for us, too many people use government as a crutch to survive.

Don't like FB ads? Get rid of FB and go buy a book and a bicycle.

David Raymond Amos

@Alexandre Guay If I can't afford to buy a book and a bicycle will the government give me them?.

  

Dale Reardon

Today's Capitalism is destroying democracy... Little by little we see elected power wean and corporate power grow... Eventually, they will do what they want because they own government and because of the way they have pushed globalization "Only"... no more room for anyone to make a living unless it is through them.... their giant monopoly on all our lives will eventually become complete...

NAFTA, TPP and CETA are prime examples of how they have channeled their plans to control everything. Drive everyone else out of business or buy them.... Anyone who can't see this trend over the last 30 or so years are not looking.... or have a vested interest themselves... We are also seeing gouging and product supply problems in the last years not to mention things like horse meat in the food supply. Nobody is paying attention or seemingly cares... Can't end well... but by then... the super rich will be able to leave the planet.. lol... yes the planet (Mars by 2030)! Our descendants will be left in the cesspool that our planet is becoming cause capitalism is destroying democracy and the sad truth is... we are looked at as walking wallets... No Humanity when there is money on the table... The climate changes alone will facilitate these moves... Sooner you realize this and act with your fellow human... the sooner we can prevent it (people power without violence)

David Raymond Amos

@Dale Reardon "Today's Capitalism is destroying democracy"

Sorry to burst your bubble but methinks democracy is myth created by capitalists but the communists kinda sorta like the idea of it these days

 

Dwight Williams

LOL

And people are worried about socialists taking over the planet!

Too late. Someone else got there first, and they make the socialists look like a garden party.

 

David Raymond Amos

@Dwight Williams The socialists would look out of place at a garden party. Methinks they are more fun to watch at the circus

  

Charles Beale

We were warned that the internet would bring some of the best and worst in life and 1984 is coming home to roost. You only have to look at all the idiots walking across intersections with their heads down to realize we are becoming an enslaved society once again.

Rick James

@Charles Beale decent comment except if memory serves1984 people weren't glued to cell phones, so the analogy falls flat. people bring 1984 into every single aspect of our modern society, and often it doesn't compare. I think not enough people give credit to feirenhiet 451 for it's accuracy, and it would have worked better in this example. people are proud of being glued to virtual life and t.v. and proud of ignorance, adn to mimic the brash, rude, ignorant behaviour they see on reality t.v. and they are self medicated and always working on image...meanwhile those of us with physical books are scoffed at and put down.

David Raymond Amos

@Charles Beale Your name reminds me of the great old movie called Network. Is that intentional? If not Google these words for some interesting info

"The World is a Business Mr Beale"

 

Naomi Forbes

I was on a ferry recently in BC and I was watching this family who for the entire time of one hour and 45 mins. this little kid was trying to get her parents' attention jumping up and down and I swear they were looking down at their cellphones for the entire time except for when the mother got up briefly and went and got something for the child to eat. It was quite sickening to watch and also very sad. Negative health effects are being proven now from excessive cell phone use but what about the psychological toll on families and society in general. Even Trump is addicted.

Rick Kuny

@Naomi Forbes and what does this have to do with this article?

David Raymond Amos

@Rick Kuny Obviously the folks don't like legitimate questions N'esy Pas?

Sung Bong Choi

nice article...the big 5 mentioned are all american...canada is losing its sovereignty to usa...walmart costco home depot and mcdonalds make canada a satellite state...repatriating profits at will...now this is being done by online services...the number of employees in canada for the big 5 does not come close from the dominance that these companies have on canadian individuals and businesses...protecting our potash telco and news providers broadcasters have become useless protectionist measures...imagine one of these companies taking away your privileges such as access to your email account...the next evolution of big data is most likely the internet of things when just about everything is connected...this is neo capitalism...in the days of karl marx capitalists owned the means of production id est manufacturing...in neo capitalism...via the internet of things the neo capitalists will own the ai robots and self driving electric vehicles...id est the thing...and the pipeline of communication...id est the internet...ncs will own both the means of productiion and services and communications...ncs can be extremely concentrated controlled by the 0.01% percent..canada needs to see this and get into the game

Martin Clark @Sung Bong Choi

This was warned about years ago and people complained about these big foreign companies coming in and shutting down the local shops. But, these same people gladly stopped shopping at the local guy just as today where people shop online. We have only ourselves to blame.

Don't shop online, get off facebook, quit posting your life all over the internet etc etc. Shop locally and support the small guy as much as possible, talk to your neighbour, make a phone call to your friend (not a text), have real conversations with real people. Support your local community

David Raymond Amos

@Martin Clark Methinks after the next Stock Market crash and or World War things may come around to what you suggest all on their own anyway.

'Data is the new oil': Your personal information is now the world's most valuable commodity

Huge amounts of data are controlled by just 5 global mega-corporations that are bigger than most governments

By Ramona Pringle, CBC News Posted: Aug 25, 2017 5:00 AM ET 

The five most valuable companies in the world today — Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft and Google's parent company Alphabet — have commodified data and taken over their respective sectors. (Pawel Kopczynski/Reuters) 

There was a time that oil companies ruled the globe, but "black gold" is no longer the world's most valuable resource — it's been surpassed by data.

The five most valuable companies in the world today — Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft and Google's parent company Alphabet — have commodified data and taken over their respective sectors.

"Data is clearly the new oil," says Jonathan Taplin, director emeritus of the USC Annenberg Innovation Lab and the author of Move Fast and Break Things: How Google, Facebook and Amazon Cornered Culture and Undermined Democracy.

But with that domination comes responsibility — and jurisdictions are struggling with how to contain, regulate and protect all those ones and zeros.

For instance, Google holds an 81 per cent share of search, according to data metrics site Net Market Share.
By comparison, even at its height, Standard Oil only had a 79 per cent share of the American market before antitrust regulators stepped in, Taplin says.

Selling access

What "the big five" are selling — or not selling, as in the case of free services like Google or Facebook — is access. As we use their platforms, the corporate giants are collecting information about every aspect of our lives, our behaviour and our decision-making. All of that data gives them tremendous power. And that power begets more power, and more profit.

On one hand, the data can be used to make their tools and services better, which is good for consumers. These companies are able to learn what we want based on the way we use their products, and can adjust them in response to those needs.

"It enables certain companies with orders of magnitude more surveillance capacity than rivals to develop a 360-degree view of the strengths and vulnerabilities of their suppliers, competitors and customers," says Frank Pasquale, professor of law at the University of Maryland and author of Black Box Society.

• Here's why reports of data breaches will skyrocket this year
• U.S. internet service providers get green light to sell user data
• Facebook hits 2 billion users, doubling in size since 2012

Access to such sweeping amounts of data also allows these giants to spot trends early and move on them, which sometimes involves buying up a smaller company before it can become a competitive threat. Pasquale points out that Google/Alphabet has been using its power "to bully or take over rivals and adjacent businesses" at a rate of about "one per week since 2010."

But it's not just newer or smaller tech companies that are at risk, says Taplin. "When Google and Facebook control 88 per cent of all new internet advertising, the rest of the internet economy, including things like online journalism and music, are starved for resources."

'When data is stored in Canada, it's a lot easier to legislate its uses and address privacy concerns.' - Meghan Sali, Open Media

Traditionally, this is where the antitrust regulators would step in, but in the data economy it's not so easy. What we're seeing for the first time is a clash between the concept of the nation state and these global, borderless corporations. A handful of tech giants now surpass the size and power of many governments.

For comparison sake, Facebook has almost two billion users, while Canada has a population of just over 36 million. Based on the companies' sheer scale alone, it is increasingly difficult for countries to enforce any kind of regulation, especially as the tech giants start pushing for rules that free them from local restrictions, says Open Media's Meghan Sali.

"Take, for example, NAFTA, where big tech companies are pushing to include legislation that stops countries from making rules that require the local storage of data," Sali says. "When data is stored in Canada, it's a lot easier to legislate its uses and address privacy concerns."

That's just one way economic considerations are taking precedence over consumer protection.

Pasquale adds that regulators would "certainly be able to intervene effectively" if they had more resources — money, personnel and technical capacity — with which to level the playing field. "And very simple interventions could help enormously — for example, requiring any dominant platform to pay out as wages or other compensation some percentage of revenues."

'We need the political will'

Sali also points out the similarities between the global dominance of the big five and the stranglehold of Canada's three major internet service providers — Bell, Rogers and Telus — whose dominance of the domestic market has kept out competitors and led to Canadians paying some of the highest prices for wireless internet access in the world.

"When we look at the price of data and the amount of money that's being made by big companies by reselling that data, it's certainly comparable to oil in that manner," she says. "But it's a little bit different in that data isn't a finite resource. At the end of the day, we can certainly create more data, whereas we can't create more oil."

Government could also help by managing crucial parts of the data economy as public infrastructure — a measure that has seen great success through the Community Broadband initiative, whereby government subsidies have helped build local fiber optic networks.

In other words, if the Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) is going to claim that every Canadian has a right to high-speed internet, then perhaps network infrastructure should be treated like roads and highways and bridges, as opposed to resting it in the hands of corporate giants.

There are ways to rein in these mega-corporations, Taplin says.

"We just need the political will," he says.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-softwood-lumber-court-1.4260903

Canada: Litigation looming if there's no softwood deal with the U.S.

 263 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.


  
Ray G. Moss 
We could use excess wood to build a fence at the border. 

Keith Newcastle

@Ray G. Moss Or to renovate 24 Sussex

David Raymond Amos

@Ray G. Moss Some folks take this matter rather seriously

Jim Oxener

@Ray G. Moss
who makes stupid comments???

John Oaktree

@Ray G. Moss

And send the bill to Donald Trump.

William Roberts

@Ray G. Moss We could stop clear cutting and planting tree farms robbing the environment of it natural diversity and drying wild life into the streets litterally

David Raymond Amos

@William Roberts I agree

David Raymond Amos

@David Raymond Amos Yea I am talking to myself because it appears most folks don't bother to read anyway.

A few years ago it was rather enlightening thing for a political animal such as I to notice a certain trend within CBC's comment section. Today are two examples that I commented within which I deem are worthy of note to publish in my blog about ongoing litigation against the Crown.

Obviously one is this comment section and the other one is about a lawyer's big announcement.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mike-duffy-lawyer-announcement-1.4260510

It is clear that the news of Duffy filing a lawsuit generates ten times the comments within CBC than a far more important issue about the future of the lively-hood of so many ordinary Canadians.

Even though it involves great deal more money the top comment thread is still just a joke even though I questioned it out of the gate?

Go Figure why I truly believe we get the governments we deserve?

David Raymond Amos

@David Raymond Amos Just in case folks think I was joking

http://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.ca/2017/08/can-anvbody-tell-what-people-commented.html


  
dale mcrobie

Canada should have gone hard from the outset and launched the suit, and we should not blink on chapter 19. If you can't get a good deal, don't do a deal!

William Roberts

@dale mcrobie Not everyone is suffering the Same. JDI has a sweet deal.
3%? then again they are one of the largest land owners in the US now and the largest in Maine. Not bad for owning NB the child poverty capital of Canada.

David Raymond Amos

@dale mcrobie "we should not blink on chapter 19" YUP

David Raymond Amos

@William Roberts Ever get the feeling that you are preaching simple truths to folks who quite simply don't give a damn?

  

Jana Alaya

Funny how Russia has benefited from the softwood lumber dispute, considering the sanctions that are imposed on them.

Erika Blair

@Jana Alaya
"Supposed" sanctions.

David Raymond Amos
 @Erika Blair I say there is no "Supposeds" about it. Everybody knows the Russians ain't dumb and i have no doubt they know what the Golden Rule truly is "He with the gold makes the rules" Hence they have been trading Yankee petrodollars for pure gold by the ton for years. Furthermore so have the Chinese. The Bankers conned Obama and Harper et al into getting rid of Colonel Gaddafi and his plan for gold based currency but good luck doing the same to the big players.

Methinks a lot of mindless politicians will be reminded of the Golden Rule after the next stock market crash N'esy Pas?

 

alfie mannion

yanks do not like it when we can produce lumber for a cheaper price

William Roberts

@alfie mannion We can't. It is highly subsidized by the tax payers. The stumpage fees on crown land does not come close to covering the cost of maintaining access. IN NB JDI monopolizes the industry and is now using the court to tight their grip knowing the marketing board cannot launch a legal defense. And that folks is how they do it.

David Raymond Amos

@alfie mannion Trump proves on a daily basis that Yankees don't like anything that is unamerican

  

Frank Slyde

So Justin, how dd the parade go? Awesome... got a lot done.

 

Rob Munson

@Frank Slyde

I'm sure he has set a record for "parade" appearances.

Andrew Hurrie

@Rob Munson

He is doing what he was chosen as party leader to do.
Nothing...other than baffle the voting public and take the attention off the party demi-gods and the old boys club.
Justin is a figurehead...not a real Prime Minister.
If he was, he would have put a stop to the border jumpers by now.
He is doing what someone is telling him to do.
So who is pulling his strings...at Canadian taxpayers expense?
What's more...why are Canadians putting up with it?

David Raymond Amos

@Rob Munson Sad and funny too but no doubt true

David Raymond Amos

@Andrew Hurrie My answers to your queries

"So who is pulling his strings...at Canadian taxpayers expense?"

George Soros

"What's more...why are Canadians putting up with it?"

Most folks don't care

 
Maryjane Smith

Just walk away, we don't need a deal with the US until they are willing to pay market price.

Supply and demand.

Michael Gnit

@Jerry Raymond There are several ways to tackle that problem. Process the wood here and create market's for finished wood products (flooring, wood finishing, prefab industrial applications ready made out of the box concept's). Grow non THC hemp in large amounts and process the high fiber pulp (cheaper and easier) into all kings of products from paper to clothing ready fiber. 

My point is in five minutes in front of my computer I thought of this. If we wanted solutions we'd find them.

Two uncomfortable examples of countries who have and are using sanctions against them to improve internal solutions to external problems are Iran and Russia. I'm not advocating anything merely stating the researched facts about the speedy growth of the export agricultural industry in Russia and Iran's investment's in their own science and technology industries to solve and create solutions that had been bought outside the country previously.

Might be time to help ourselves. Not close the border's. Two very different things.

David Raymond Amos

@Maryjane Smith I agree with your reasoning about Supply and demand.

David Raymond Amos

@Michael Gnit Very well put sir

 

Brent Grywinski

If we can't get a reasonable deal on softwood lumber with the Americans after all these years, why would Canada get a reasonable deal on NAFTA? Walking away from NAFTA seems to be a logical next step. You can't reason with a hard-headed bully (Trump) who wants everything his way like a six-year-old.

Rick James

@Phil Major say what you may about justin, I certainly don't support or agree with everything he's done, but I believe he's done a very good job of stick-handling trump given they are polar oposites. At least pubicly Trump seems to not mind him. I'm sure justin was playing the long game from the start. He's been openly very supportive of teh Trump administration.

David Raymond Amos

@Brent Grywinski I have been advocating against NAFTA since before Mulroney's ink was dry on the wicked deal

David Raymond Amos

@Rick James What did Trudeau The Younger's daddy once say? Oh Yea I found it

Trudeau The Elder's Washington Press Club speech regarding Canadian policy and the United States, comparing the situation to "sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly or even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt."

 

donna gregoire

....Harper managed to get $500m in duty back from the US and keep the lumber flowing....Justin now has allowed the lumber to stall and Russia, Germany and Sweden are increasing their share of the US market...will Canada be able to get that share back in 2020 when we've turfed these incompetent Liberals?...

Kevin Bell

@donna gregoire
Outright fabrication from the ReformaCons. The Harpo deal actually cost our producers over $1 billion, but don't let the truth slow you down.

David Raymond Amos

@donna gregoire "Harper managed to get $500m in duty back from the US" NOPE

Everybody in the know knows Emerson had the deal already cooked before Martin called the snap election for the 39th Parliament. Before the dust settled on that election in which Emerson was elected as a liberal he quickly turned coat got sworn in as Conservative Cabinet Minister then promptly made his new bass Harper look like a hero. Everybody knows that.

Now David Emerson is back on CBC telling us this problem is going to keep coming back??? Methinks Emerson is a big part of the problem of why things keep coming back. Tear up NAFTA then the problem is solved.

David Raymond Amos

@Kevin Bell I know the lawyers charged a hell of a lot to argue the nonsense and in the end the settlement held back half a billion bucks for future litigation

  

Milloy Johnson

CBC why are you hiding the story on the government handing out checks to illegal immigrants??

Lawrence Aaluuluuq (RedWhite)

@Milloy Johnson

Because the frothing bigots gnash their teeth because that's the only thing they can think about, despite FAR more important issues at hand.

Now, you can either stay on topic and join the conversation, or you can let the adults talk.

 

David Raymond Amos

@Milloy Johnson Better yet. Why did CBC not report the story about the government denying one Canadian in particular his CPP and Old Age Pension?

David Raymond Amos

@Lawrence Aaluuluuq (RedWhite) Do I qualify as a adult once I made the government buckle and give me my pension before I sued it?

  

Mark Giesbrecht

When the Lowes and Home Depots try peddling the sticks the USA has left to offer then Americans will really grate again.
Why wouldn't Americans be willing to pay a lot more for a new home so Trump can have an Ego Boost, right?
Ship them nothing and see who lasts longer. BC has ports and China is just days away.

David Raymond Amos

@Mark Giesbrecht I agree

David Raymond Amos

@Mark Giesbrecht Howcome we can't make kitchen cupboards etc cheaper than Sweden and sell them to ourselves?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/ikea-halifax-store-business-announcement-1.3411588

Canada: Litigation looming if there's no softwood deal with the U.S.

David Emerson: This problem is going to keep coming back. It's going to keep creating instability

By Alexander Panetta, CBC News Posted: Aug 24, 2017 3:00 PM ET

Logs are unloaded at Murray Brothers Lumber Company woodlot in Madawaska, Ont. on Tuesday April 25, 2017. Ontario is increasing funding for forest access roads by $20 million in response to the softwood lumber dispute between Canada and the U.S. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Sean Kilpatrick (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press) 

As softwood negotiations with the United States languish, the Canadian government says it's readying itself for the next phase of the lumber fight, which has historically been a necessary step in resolving this recurring dispute: litigation.

Canada's ambassador to Washington says the two governments have been working hard to get a deal and will continue to do so, but, with the U.S. industry resistant to an agreement, he says the Canadian side is prepared to fight in court.

"We're going to try really hard in the next little while to get a fair and balanced agreement with the United States," David MacNaughton said Thursday at an event attended by provincial representatives.

"If that is not possible, we have all agreed that we will take all necessary steps to litigate this matter until we get a fair arrangement as we have in the past."

It wouldn't be the first time. The issue has regularly gone to court over the decades. The irony this time is that the fight would likely be playing out in dispute-resolution panels under NAFTA's Chapter 19 — at the very moment U.S. negotiators are asking Canada to end Chapter 19.

That's one reason both countries worked to get a softwood deal before NAFTA talks began this month — but ultimately failed.

• The big holdup in a Canada-U.S. lumber deal? Russian, German, Brazilian wood
• Trudeau government promises to defend lumber industry in face of new U.S. duties
• Ottawa announces $867M in financial assistance for softwood lumber industry

MacNaughton laid blame upon the American lumber industry, which he accused of spreading false information and stymying an agreement. The industry is a player in these talks: part of any deal would require it to forsake trade actions for the duration of the agreement.

The historical pattern of the softwood dispute involves the U.S. industry launching complaints over what it calls unfair subsidies, the U.S. authorities imposing tariffs and the issue dragging out for years, through court fights.

MacNaughton said the American lumber lobby is falsely telling people two things: that Canada hasn't agreed on a cap; and that the provinces are split on the details of a deal.

"That's simply not true," the ambassador said.

A historical dispute

He has already told The Canadian Press that Canada has agreed to cap its exports to about 30 per cent of the U.S. market. He says the only thing Canada is asking for is the ability to expand that cap when the market is so hot the U.S. cannot supply the other 70 per cent.

He said it's unfair to punish Canadian companies — then increase imports from Russia. In fact, in the first half of this year, U.S. imports of softwood from Germany have grown tenfold as import duties have increased the cost of Canadian wood.

As for supposed provincial disunity, he pointed to the people around him. They included two former Canadian ambassadors to the U.S. — Gary Doer representing Alberta and Raymond Chretien from Quebec — and David Wilkins, former U.S. ambassador to Canada, representing New Brunswick.

There were several jokes from the veteran diplomats about how long this has dragged on. Wilkins told a story of a Canadian envoy who was in Gettysburg for Lincoln's famous address in 1863 — Wilkins said he was there to discuss a lumber dispute with the president.

Chretien said he'd never have believed when he began dealing with the issue as ambassador in 1994 that he'd still be dealing with it 23 years later.

Taking on the coalition

Doer said it's unfair for the U.S. lumber lobby to get a veto on a deal.

He said the issue has in the past required leadership from American politicians. He said Democratic and Republican administrations have pushed their side toward a deal: "You need political will and political muscle to do that," Doer said.

He said it would be ideal to avoid lawsuits and just get an agreement that keeps lumber mills running. "We would rather hire hard-hats than lawyers."

Representing B.C. was David Emerson, who has grappled with this irritant for years, as a lumber executive and also as a one-time federal cabinet minister. He said he's realized over time that the U.S. lumber industry talks about the need for reform in Canada, but doesn't really care about that.

He suggested they have an interest in prolonging these disputes — not only do tariffs drive up the price of lumber, but U.S. companies have also cashed in by collecting hundreds of millions from the duties imposed.

"This problem is going to keep coming back. It's going to keep creating instability," Emerson said. "Maybe it's time we took on the coalition and tried to create a framework that would put the issue to rest."

He said he's not worried about litigation: "We've been down that route before. It does take a long time. But in the end we have prevailed."

He added: "It's not our preferred route."