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David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @WandaMMason1 @alllibertynews and 48 others
Content disabled
Reply to Ray Oliver:
Methinks you RCMP dudes forgot the irrefutable fact that I love to sue
lawyers and corrupt cops etc N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/08/funding-decision-on-moncton-affordable.html
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/08/funding-decision-on-moncton-affordable.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rising-tide-moncton-affordable-housing-homelessness-1.5681126
Funding decision on Moncton affordable housing plan due soon, minister says
Rising Tide seeking provincial, city backing to add affordable housing
· CBC News · Posted: Aug 11, 2020 6:00 AM AT
Social Development Minister Dorothy Shephard says the province will soon make a decision on whether to fund a Moncton plan to buy derelict homes in the city and turn them into affordable housing with support services. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
New Brunswick's minister of Social Development says a decision on provincial funding is pending on a plan to turn derelict homes in Moncton into affordable housing that has been in limbo for months.
Rising Tide Community Initiative is a non-profit launched at the start of the year and already has tentative municipal support, if the province also provides matching funding.
It sought a total of $12 million to buy and operate up to 125 housing units by 2023, which would include support services.
"I am interested in Rising Tide, I will say that," Dorothy Shephard said in an interview last week.
The minister has previously not answered interview requests about the topic and statements from the department were vague about whether the department would support the concept.
An excavator clears tents and shelters that had been set up on wooded city land last year. (Shane Magee/CBC)
However, Shephard said the province's share — $6 million over three years — can't come from a program meant to pay for affordable housing because that funding has already been earmarked for other projects.
"If we take it out of our housing plan, then the units that we were going to develop as a province won't happen," Shephard said. "So Rising Tide needs to be over and above that."
But that comes as the province is spending more and more to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic, which has resulted in a projected surplus turning into a deficit.
Shephard said the proposal has gone to the "entire government" to consider.
Our concern now is they're beating the drums about a provincial election.
- Dale Hicks, one of the Rising Tide founders"I don't think it's going to be that far off into the future, but I can't give you a date today" Shephard said when asked about when a decision will be made.
Earlier this year, city councillors tentatively voted to support the plan, but continue to await the province's decision before a final vote.
The proposal was sent to the province with the hope that money would be included in this year's budget presented in March. COVID-19 meant the government's attention was largely focused on dealing with the pandemic. So the organization's plans to get underway this year to get people housed has not happened.
The funding request arrived in a year that began with a projected provincial government surplus wiped out by the COVID-19 pandemic.
Dale Hicks, one of three founders of Rising Tide, says there seemed to be support building for the plan before the pandemic. (Shane Magee/CBC)
Dale Hicks, one of three founders of Rising Tide, said there seemed to be support building for the plan before the pandemic. He's meeting with the others who started the organization as well as city officials later this week to gauge where things stand.
"Our concern now is they're beating the drums about a provincial election," Hicks said.
He said an election in the coming weeks could put any decision on hold for even longer, further delaying a potential start of the program.
Rising Tide was launched by people involved with Food Depot Alimentaire, United Way and John Howard Society.
Earlier this summer, there were about 290 homeless people counted in the city, with around 90 staying in two city shelters.
Hicks said various studies have indicated supportive housing helps those facing homelessness.
"There's the business case, where it's not just about throwing some money at homeless people," Hicks said. He said boosting affordable housing will have a ripple effect on first responders, loitering and other issues in the downtown.
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39 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Amos
Content disabled
Methinks our finance minister must be happy to hear this announcement in his neigbourhood N'esy Pas?
Terry Tibbs
Remind me please? This is the plan where a couple of folks have got together, under an umbrella of "non profit", to pay themselves big bucks, and supply something like 125 housing units at grossly inflated prices?
And WE are supposed to fund them?
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Methinks our current finance minister must know the answer to your query N'esy Pas?
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos:
I'm not sure the current finance minister knows the time of day. I even believe after a hard day at the office finding the right house to land in is a challenge.
Gilles LeBlanc
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: Yes Terry, after blowing a mindless amount on a shelter that
charges rent. We will now buy housing in a seller's market and pay for
support workers to live in and make sure the property doesn't get
trashed while their out robbing the neighbours and terrorizing our
children.
valmond landry
i'm going to CRTC. first and then follow the proper channels have a good day
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @valmond landry: Been there done that
Reply to @valmond landry: Been there done that
Justin Gunther
Reply to @David Amos: "CRTC has been added to autobot automoderate list"
David Amos
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks I am on another list N'esy Pas?
David News
Great idea, sounds wonderful. What happens to the properties after 3 yrs. How are new homeless people assisted.
Who owns the property. When and if the property is sold where do the proceeds go.
So many questions and as normal so little information other than the ask for funding.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @David News:
It' appears to be a self-perpetuating cash cow of government money
being provided to prepare units and government money being provided to
pay rent. If it's anything other than this then maybe they should put a
website up and explain the this multi-million dollar situation a little
better.
SarahRose
Werner
Reply to @David News:
"Rising Tide Community Initiative... sought a total of $12 million to
buy and operate up to 125 housing units by 2023." Rising Tide is a
non-profit corporation and as such, a legal entity.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @SarahRose
Werner: In other words, based on that, Rising Tide is a property
ownership and management company that is masquerading as a non-profit in
order to extract tax payer money to fund their business.
If Rising Tide is anything other than that than Rising Tide needs to put a website up and explain their altruism in great detail.
If Rising Tide is anything other than that than Rising Tide needs to put a website up and explain their altruism in great detail.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: The first article I read about Rising Tide was back in
February. Seriously what are you people thinking? 12 million but we're
telling you nothing? You've had six months to tell us more than
practically nothing. This isn't LaLa land if you want the money you've
got to at least make an effort LOL.
$12M in corporate welfare with no public accountability over their plan. Literally unbelievable.
$12M in corporate welfare with no public accountability over their plan. Literally unbelievable.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks folks should beware of RCMP shills posing as conservative spindoctors N'esy Pas?
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks folks should beware of RCMP shills posing as conservative spindoctors N'esy Pas?
Ray Oliver
Reply to @David Amos: You 2 make a great pair. Outrageous rants and far fetched fantasies run deep.. collaborate. Its cute.
David NewsReply to @SarahRose Werner: I understand that. But what is the funding model post 2023 and if they close the Non profit, what happens to the title to the property. Does it revert to the government, the tenants ?????
SarahRose Werner
Reply to @David News:
If a non-profit corporation incorporated in NB dissolves, all their
remaining assets go to the NB government. Certainly the property
wouldn't go to the tenants. Being a tenant doesn't give you any rights
when it comes to ownership.
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Justin Gunther:
I'm fairly certain, on a serviced lot, you could drop 20' container homes at $30,000 a pop. Probably cheaper once you got into production, could dip down to $20.000, a pop.
I'm fairly certain, on a serviced lot, you could drop 20' container homes at $30,000 a pop. Probably cheaper once you got into production, could dip down to $20.000, a pop.
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: I agree
Justin Gunther
$96,000 a housing unit? These people need starter homes with bare essentials. They need a few hundred square feet or maybe a bit more than that. They need units that are uniform and easy to repair if somebody going through withdrawal throws a fit and trashes something.
$96,000 a unit?
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: But they still need privacy and cramming them in an "apartment
complex" where half the people are smoking the drug that cannot be
mentioned is literally not going to help anybody get clean and become
self-sufficient. They need isolated units that are just large enough
with maybe a small bit of front and backyard.
Some people will get out and "level up" in life. Some won't. But more people will be given a fair opportunity. And it probably wouldn't even cost as much.
Some people will get out and "level up" in life. Some won't. But more people will be given a fair opportunity. And it probably wouldn't even cost as much.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: Also, Social Development, people with chronic addiction issues
would be better served by a system that automatically adjusted their
benefit check for them to account for rent.
In other words, they have no choice but to pay rent, and they therefore must be more frugal to pick up the essentials they need because the cash-in-hand money they're getting from the government is now less than before.
But you also need to be able to do this in a way that doesn't torpedo the way a bunch of people who are currently on disability and making it work live THEIR lives. If other people have their shet together and are paying rent in the free market and it's working they shouldn't be shoved into the affordable housing complex.
Do you think you can handle all of those complicated distinctions? I'll be honest with you I'm not sure you can. Maybe you'll prove me wrong.
In other words, they have no choice but to pay rent, and they therefore must be more frugal to pick up the essentials they need because the cash-in-hand money they're getting from the government is now less than before.
But you also need to be able to do this in a way that doesn't torpedo the way a bunch of people who are currently on disability and making it work live THEIR lives. If other people have their shet together and are paying rent in the free market and it's working they shouldn't be shoved into the affordable housing complex.
Do you think you can handle all of those complicated distinctions? I'll be honest with you I'm not sure you can. Maybe you'll prove me wrong.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: I bet a government that wasn't ruled by unions, pensions, and
backroom deals could mass produce a vast array or tiny home things for
about $10K. Why would it cost more than that?
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Justin Gunther: *of tiny home things
Corrie
Weatherfield
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: agree with the tiny home idea, some who can afford lots more
are very happy with 200 or 300 square feet. a well built, insulated
mini-barn or shed with heating and plumbing would not cost $96,000.
They could be made portable as well.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Corrie
Weatherfield: Uniformity being key to keep maintenance costs to a bare
minimum. If a little more than $10K it certainly would be nowhere near
$96K.
What if they also had a tiered program where, for example, people who voluntarily submit to a drug test get to live in the section of the tiny home park that has all of the people who agreed to the drug test?
This could be seen as like phase 2 of getting your shet together on the overall journey of you getting your shet together.
What if they also had a tiered program where, for example, people who voluntarily submit to a drug test get to live in the section of the tiny home park that has all of the people who agreed to the drug test?
This could be seen as like phase 2 of getting your shet together on the overall journey of you getting your shet together.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: And please don't build the park halfway between Oromocto and
Fredericton or anywhere else 20 kms away from the closest grocery store.
Would it be impossible to stack some homes in a way that some spryer folk have to step up a few stairs to get home? That may or may not cost a little more based on cost/savings of land and infrastructure. It may not even be optimal or a good idea at all. But it's still probably better than spending $576,000 on Uncle Jack's best friend's 6 dilapidated houses he doesn't want anymore.
If that isn't how Rising Tide plans on operating than maybe they could build that website and tell us exactly what their $12M plan is. Who's buying what from who? And who's doing the renos? Who owns the properties? Who's collecting rents?
Would it be impossible to stack some homes in a way that some spryer folk have to step up a few stairs to get home? That may or may not cost a little more based on cost/savings of land and infrastructure. It may not even be optimal or a good idea at all. But it's still probably better than spending $576,000 on Uncle Jack's best friend's 6 dilapidated houses he doesn't want anymore.
If that isn't how Rising Tide plans on operating than maybe they could build that website and tell us exactly what their $12M plan is. Who's buying what from who? And who's doing the renos? Who owns the properties? Who's collecting rents?
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: I'm pretty sure the government could just expropriate some land
from Irving, give them the ultimate low ball and say, "sorry that's
just the way it is."
Couldn't the government do something like that to some deserving rich trickle-down economist? Like, the low-ball of all low-balls.
Couldn't the government do something like that to some deserving rich trickle-down economist? Like, the low-ball of all low-balls.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: "Well they could, Justin, but you see Irving owns all of the
local papers and papers are still valuable things for swaying public
opinion about politicians."
"Oh? You don't say?"
"Oh? You don't say?"
Ray Oliver
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Sounds to me like you're in serious need in one of the units you mentioned.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Oh My Are your cop buddies planning one of their infamous wellness checks?
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Oh My Are your cop buddies planning one of their infamous wellness checks?
Ray Oliver
Reply to @David Amos:
Not a cop. You mentioned you've got family on the force. Call em up.
You call everyone else. Or do they ignore the calls too?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Methinks you RCMP dudes are too dumb to understand the past tense as you read my replies to your insults N'esy Pas?
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Methinks you RCMP dudes are too dumb to understand the past tense as you read my replies to your insults N'esy Pas?
Ray Oliver
Reply to @David Amos: Youre too sharp for me. I mean just look at your track record. Impressive body of work you've amassed.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Methinks many a true word is said in jest even by an evil little RCMP shill without the sand to cough up his real name N'esy Pas?
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Methinks many a true word is said in jest even by an evil little RCMP shill without the sand to cough up his real name N'esy Pas?
Ray Oliver
Reply to @David Amos: Back to the name game I see. Your debate skills are spot on today.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Ray Oliver: This is no game nor is it even a debate
Reply to @Ray Oliver: This is no game nor is it even a debate
Ray Oliver
Reply to @David Amos: No this comment section is serious business I forgot my bad ya fierce political animal
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Methinks you RCMP dudes forgot the irrefutable fact that I love to sue lawyers and corrupt cops etc N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks Mr Tibbs has a better idea N'esy Pas?
Justin Gunther
The NB affordable housing list is at about 5,000 right now. This is according to a CBC article published July 2nd 2020 which I somehow did not see until I used a search engine, even though I spend at least 2 hours a day on the CBC and have CBC NB stories delivered to me directly to Outlook through their RSS feed.
This is what happens when the CBC page is a spattering of differently sized square boxes featuring stories that have been algorithmically delivered to you personally. It is a system that literally, in some cases, makes it impossible for certain people to find certain stories unless they use a third party search engine, which of course requires them to know the right search terms.
What's a Rising Tide? Does it have a website? Is it the same thing as the risingtides counseling service thing that has a website? If Rising Tide is a non-profit petitioning for government money then it needs to put its financials on the web for public scrutiny. That's just the way it is when you're drawing a salary from something that is called a "non-profit" while simultaneously receiving government funding.
If you actually have a decent plan that isn't going to enrich "Uncle Jack's contracting company" then best of luck to you. But people need some transparency.
David Amos
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Good questions Good luck getting answers
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Justin Gunther:
The trouble with that is there is no one size fits all "affordable housing". You have single folks, you have couples, you have families. all requiring different accommodations.
Then we have to figure out who gets to pay for this "affordable housing".
DO we dare ask folks who are already paying $200+ a month in taxes on housing they can afford to pay more so others get a free ride? Possibly pushing their housing out of their "affordable" range.
Do we ask business owners to pay for this "affordable housing", pushing their business costs so high as to no longer be competitive, effectively shutting them down?
I *think* "affordable housing" is nothing more than a fairy tale.
The trouble with that is there is no one size fits all "affordable housing". You have single folks, you have couples, you have families. all requiring different accommodations.
Then we have to figure out who gets to pay for this "affordable housing".
DO we dare ask folks who are already paying $200+ a month in taxes on housing they can afford to pay more so others get a free ride? Possibly pushing their housing out of their "affordable" range.
Do we ask business owners to pay for this "affordable housing", pushing their business costs so high as to no longer be competitive, effectively shutting them down?
I *think* "affordable housing" is nothing more than a fairy tale.
Ben Hague
Definitely an excellent idea.
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Ben Hague:
@ $100,000 a pop? I *think* not.
@ $100,000 a pop? I *think* not.
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Methinks we think alike N'esy Pas?
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