Lawyer says Liberal support means business
A prominent New Brunswick lawyer has no trouble admitting his support of the federal Liberal party translates into government business. David Lutz of Hampton says his firm works for the federal Justice Department because he works for the party.
Last February, David Lutz sent a memo to the staff at his firm instructing them when, where and how to vote for Shawn Graham in the provincial Liberal leadership race.
The memo said voting for Graham would help the firm, because its number one client is the federal department of justice, and that business is secured by Lutz's profile in the party.
"We've done work work for the party in the past, and it's been my experience that the party returns the favour," Lutz said on Thursday.
The business brought up to $100,000 in revenue to the firm in 2002, enough to keep three of his employees busy.
While the lawyer has no trouble talking about the memo, Graham says the memo is news to him.
"I can say though that I've never discussed government contracts with Mr. Lutz or with the Federal Department of Justice. And I can't comment on the observations made in this memo because it was an inter-office memo in a private sector company and certainly nothing I had any involvement in."
The leader says he does appreciate the support Lutz provided in helping him win the Liberal leadership.
Ghosts of Atcon affair haunt debate over travel-nurse contracts
Health minister invokes 15-year-old Liberal spending scandal as fallout continues over nurse deals
Maybe it was inevitable that within 24 hours of a report into what one MLA called "one of the worst economic scandals in the history of New Brunswick," politicians invoked another of the worst-ever scandals.
It was Liberal MLA Robert Gauvin who labelled the travel-nurse controversy as "one of the worst" — and Health Minister Bruce Fitch who promptly tried to one-up him.
"When he talks about financial disasters — remember the Atcon scandal," Fitch said during question period Wednesday.
For a second straight day, exchanges at the legislature were dominated by the scathing report by Auditor General Paul Martin on $173 million in contracts with private sector travel-nurse companies filling staffing gaps in New Brunswick hospitals.
Martin described a litany of problems with the contracts, particularly three agreements between the Vitalité Health Network and Canadian Health Labs, that he says were inked without due diligence.
"There's some common sense missing here that went out the window. People were just pressing 'click' on the pay button," Martin said earlier this week.
New
Brunswick Auditor General Paul Martin delivered a report on Tuesday
criticizing travel-nurse contracts signed during the pandemic. (Jacques Poitras / CBC)
Vitalité has paid Canadian Health Labs up to $300 per hour per nurse — far more than what it would cost to employ unionized nurses.
In some circumstances, the company can deploy its nurses "regardless of the actual need" and can still be paid up to $85 million during the life of its agreements, Martin said.
Vitalité has argued it urgently needed to do something to avoid closing or reducing services at some of its hospitals in 2022 — though critics say a properly funded public health-care system wouldn't need a costly private-sector backstop in the first place.
Government money couldn't save Atcon
Liberals argued they were responding to an emergency, too, when they approved $70 million in loans and loan guarantees for Atcon in 2009 — potentially major job losses in Miramichi if the company shut down.
But the money didn't save Atcon.
The company went bankrupt anyway, in April 2010, and taxpayers lost almost all of the $70 million.
How exactly that ranks compared to the travel-nurses controversy is hard to measure precisely.
The Liberal premier at the time, Shawn Graham, was eventually found to be in a conflict of interest for his role in the loans because of his father's business connections to the company.
The Atcon scandal happened under Shawn Graham's Liberal government. (Radio-Canada)
Even after Graham was gone, the Progressive Conservatives feasted on Atcon for years.
They used the legislature's public accounts committee, Atcon's drawn-out bankruptcy proceedings and two auditor-general reports to keep the Liberal loans in the public eye.
They zeroed in on six former Graham cabinet ministers who approved the funding, remained MLAs and returned as ministers in Brian Gallant's Liberal government in 2014.
In 2015, Fitch, then the acting leader of the PC opposition, took part in a photo-op where he and some party staffers delivered Atcon computer servers — purchased during a bankruptcy auction — to the RCMP for investigation.
No charges were ever laid as a result of the stunt.
The
Atcon loans were approved by Liberal politicians, despite advice from
civil servants who warned that the company was likely to fail. (CBC)
The travel nurses affair has the potential to drag on for a similar extended period.
Health-care officials will be grilled over the contracts by the public accounts committee later this month, but other aspects of the story could ripple for years.
Vitalité said this week it's in a "dispute" with one of its travel-nurse contractors, while the government says it will try to "extricate" the health authority from the current Canadian Health Labs agreement.
Both scenarios could lead to lengthy lawsuits.
The so-called "auto-renewal" clause in the Canadian Health Labs contract may also allow the company to extend its role in the province beyond 2026, Martin says.
Still, there are differences between the current controversy and Atcon.
The Atcon loans were approved by Liberal politicians, despite advice from civil servants who warned that the company was likely to fail regardless and take the $70 million with it.
"With Atcon, we've been able to find out over time that cabinet was directly related to that," PC MLA Jeff Carr observed this week.
"We don't know here [with the travel nurses] if any of that happened."
The opposition is trying to pin responsibility on Premier Blaine Higgs but haven't proven the case.
Higgs fired the CEO of Horizon Health, shuffled Fitch into the health minister position and fired the Horizon and Vitalité boards just two weeks before Vitalité signed the first of three contracts with Canadian Health Labs.
Premier Blaine Higgs told Liberal Leader Susan Holt he was not
micro-managing the health authorities or their contracts. (Ed
Hunter/CBC)
"I'm prepared to do whatever is necessary to protect and improve the health-care system in our province," Higgs declared at a July 15, 2022 news conference.
This week, Higgs told Liberal Leader Susan Holt he was not micro-managing the health authorities or their contracts.
"If she thinks all of these invoices show up on my desk, well, they don't."
The health department's deputy minister, Eric Beaulieu, said in February he knew of Vitalité's first contract with Canadian Health Labs, dated July 29, 2022, but wasn't told of two subsequent agreements.
The trustee running Vitalité at the time, Gérald Richard, was also in the loop and said in March he supported the decision.
Beaulieu and Richard both reported to Higgs.
"It is important to note that the use of agency staff was endorsed by the Department of Health," Vitalité said in a statement this week.
"Several meetings were held with the Department during which travel nurses were discussed."
'Who knew what,' and when
Higgs said in February he didn't know about the $300 hourly billing rate until the Globe and Mail revealed it in a story earlier that month.
"What I really want to know is who knew what, and when," Green MLA Megan Mitton said.
Fitch says he was briefed on Vitalité's first contract in the fall of 2022, but only grasped the cost implications in early 2023 as the annual government budgeting process began.
By then Vitalité had signed two more contracts with Canadian Health Labs.
The three contracts were worth up to $98 million, more than half of the total $173 million value of all travel-nurse agreements.
That's much more than what was lost with Atcon but Fitch argues there was a key difference.
"The Atcon money went to the bank. The bank just ended up taking it," he said.
"The travel nurse money went to help provide care to the people of New Brunswick."
Health
Minister Bruce Fitch says the Atcon scandal is worse because the money
spent by the government went right to the banks, while money spent on
travel-nurse contracts went into health care. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
But not all the money, according to the auditor general.
Martin said the Canadian Health Labs contract allows it to deploy nurses even if they're not needed.
"You pay whether they show up or not," he said.
Fitch acknowledged that to reporters, who asked him whether he thinks Vitalité should have signed the second and third contracts with Canadian Heath Labs.
"We're looking in the rear-view mirror now, which is always 20-20 vision," said the minister, who earlier in the morning was looking back himself at the Atcon controversy.
"They signed those contracts," Fitch said, "and if we had had a look at it, it might have been a different outcome."
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Who told you that?
Integrity commissioner who oversees registry
hasn't filed an annual report in four years even
though it's required by law
Published Jun 17, 2024 • Last updated 5 days ago • 5 minute read
Noah Fry, a political scientist from Moncton, says New Brunswick has one of the weakest lobbyist registries in the country. SUBMITTED
Noah Fry wants to know why New Brunswick’s lobbyist registry has fizzled.
2024-06-23, 12:19 PM
Page 1 of 8
The political scientist from Moncton and PhD candidate at McMaster
University in Hamilton, Ont., says since the registry’s introduction seven
years ago, it has proven to be one of the weakest, ineffective examples
across the country.
“Most registries emerge and evolve based on scandals, but in New
Brunswick it fizzled,” Fry told Brunswick News in an interview. “It was
the second-last province to adopt a lobbyist regime. And it’s only a
registry. Some other provinces and the federal government have an
additional expectation that a lobbyist would report meetings with public
officials. That’s just not a thing in New Brunswick.”
Lobbyist registries allow the public to view reports and statistics related
to private firms seeking an audience with public officials, such as a
cabinet member or premier. The idea is to provide transparency about
who could possibly be influencing government policy.
There’s no way for the integrity commissioner
to investigate and fine individuals who are
violating the act.
Noah Fry
In a peer-reviewed paper of Fry’s, published in the Journal of New
Brunswick Studies, the academic argues New Brunswick has a weak
registry because there isn’t enough business diversity in the province.
Large employers are few, and there isn’t enough pressure from industry
2024-06-23, 12:19 PM
Page 2 of 8
itself to create a better registry that would let the businesses see what
other competitors are doing, he said.
“In New Brunswick, we don’t know who’s being accessed, how often,
because the legislation is weak,” Fry said. “We only know there are
lobbyists in New Brunswick who have registered. And you only need to
register if you perform a critical number of hours as a lobbyist, three
months. So a lot of lobbying can be done without needing to report
yourself to the lobbyist registry.”
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Another weakness: there’s little that can be done if someone breaks the
law.
“There’s no way for the integrity commissioner to investigate and fine
individuals who are violating the act,” Fry said. “They can report
violations to the RCMP but they can’t conduct an investigation
themselves and I doubt they have the resources to do it anyway. So it
makes it a de facto honour system among lobbyists in the province.”
Commissioner hasn’t filed annual reports
New Brunswick’s lobbyist registry is the responsibility of Integrity
Commissioner Charles Murray.
Since being hired for the role on Jan. 1, 2020, for a seven-year term,
2024-06-23, 12:19 PM
Page 3 of 8
Murray hasn’t filed an annual report to the legislature, which is a
requirement by law.
Nor has he appeared before the legislature’s all-party standing
committee on procedure, privileges and legislative officers, which was
made an annual duty on March 23, 2023, when the members passed a
special motion.
Other independent officers of the legislature appeared before the
committee over the last year, but Murray didn’t.
Charles Murray, New Brunswick’s integrity commissioner, says he will propose strengthening legislation
following the provincial election. BRUNSWICK NEWS ARCHIVES
In an interview, Murray said he missed one scheduled appearance
2024-06-23, 12:19 PM
Page 4 of 8
because he was sick in February and the second one, in March, was
cancelled by the politicians themselves (he doesn’t know why).
For the first two years as the full-time integrity commissioner, he was
also acting ombud, effectively doing two jobs at once.
He said with the House adjourned and a provincial election to be held
no later than Oct. 21, he doubts he’ll be called to appear until a new
government takes the reins.
We are here to administer the law that we
have, not the law we wish we have.
Charles Murray
Instead, the commissioner plans on meeting with newly elected
politicians in late fall, where he can present a catch-up report that
summarizes the last four years of his office’s activities.
He also plans to present recommendations to them on how to
strengthen the legislation that he oversees.
“I very much believe that we are here to administer the law that we
have, not the law we wish we have,” Murray told Brunswick News. “I
don’t believe in colouring outside those lines. That said, there’s an
opportunity every five years or so to respectfully point out to the
legislative assembly some areas of the law that could be, in our opinion,
strengthened and improved. That’s just our advice we give to them, and
after that, it’s up to them whether they want to do that or not.”
2024-06-23, 12:19 PM
Page 5 of 8
The lawyer added that he’s learned over the years that the appetite for
change is highest right after an election and lowest right before one.
Murray agreed the lobbyist registry had been neglected, but the bulk of
what his office does is to ensure politicians don’t violate the Members’
Conflict of Interest Act.
Twice a year, the commissioner meets with every MLA privately – all 49
– to review their personal finances, everything from their credit card
balances to their business holdings, to make sure they are not in a
conflict of interest with their public duties. If they are cabinet ministers,
the scrutiny is even tougher.
As for the lack of annual reports, Murray said, early on, the pandemic
put that work on ice.
“My original thought was I was going to meet with the committee and
say to them, ‘this is how my predecessor Alexandre Deschênes did the
report. How do you want it?’ It’s fine to meet a statutory obligation, but
I’d like the reports to be relevant, I’d like them to be readable, I’d like
them to be helpful,” the officer said. “It’s to say, ‘look, let’s not just tick
off the statutory obligation box here, let’s have a meaningful
communication.’ But where that meeting didn’t happen, that kind of
froze my process.”
But Murray said he’s given up on the idea the committee will meet any
time soon. He’s had individual conversations with committee members
and believes he now knows what they want.
Part of what he’ll ask for, if the politicians want a stronger registry, is a
bigger budget. Of all the independent officers of the legislature, Murray
has the fewest staff – it’s just him and an assistant – and the smallest
2024-06-23, 12:19 PM
Page 6 of 8
budget, $350,000 annually.
One of those politicians on the committee is Green party Leader David
Coon.
It’s unacceptable that the lobbyist registry
remains in a barebones form.
David Coon
He says he’s talked to Murray privately about the need to have a
stronger lobbyist registry and he’s impatient for the committee to meet
so he can ask questions of the commissioner in public.
“The history of this lobbyist registry is ridiculous,” Coon told Brunswick
News. “It’s unacceptable that the lobbyist registry remains in a
barebones form on a website, run by Service New Brunswick. It should
be so much more.”
2024-06-23, 12:19 PM
Page 7 of 8
Green party Leader David Coon wants a stronger lobbyist registry in New Brunswick. John Chilibeck/
Brunswick News Photo by John Chilibeck/ Brunswick News
Fry, meanwhile, said it was up to the politicians on the committee to
ensure they call regular meetings, ask for annual reports and seek
answers on the lobbyist registry.
“Political willpower still does matter. If the Higgs government or a
different government in the future wants to make this a priority, they
could.”
Conservative candidate didn't register on time as travel nurse lobbyist
Integrity commissioner did not seek fine, says former MLA Brian Macdonald acted in good faith
Brian Macdonald, a former Progressive Conservative MLA, represented Canadian Health Labs in early 2023, seeking to arrange meetings with senior government officials, including his former PC caucus colleague Premier Blaine Higgs.
New Brunswick's Lobbyists' Registration Act requires a lobbyist to submit a return to the provincial integrity commissioner "within 15 days after commencing performance of an undertaking on behalf of a client."
However, Macdonald didn't register as a lobbyist for the company until this year, after it made national headlines.
His registration is dated Feb. 26, 10 days after an investigative report in the Globe and Mail newspaper revealed detailed information about Canadian Health Labs' contracts in New Brunswick and Newfoundland and Labrador.
PC
Party executive director Doug Williams, Brian Macdonald, Premier Blaine
Higgs and party president Erika Hachey. Macdonald has hosted at least
two PC Party fundraising events for Higgs at his Fredericton home. (Twitter)
Macdonald told CBC News that he tried to register when he was hired last year but the process required him to list all of the company's contracts across Canada.
"Despite my repeated requests, CHL did not provide that information," he said.
"When the Globe and Mail reported on CHL around Feb. 16, 2024, I contacted the ethics commissioner and filed a disclosure because I wanted to ensure that my involvement with CHL was on the public record."
Under the act, a lobbyist like Macdonald who violates the 15-day registration requirement can be charged with an offence and, if found guilty, fined up to $25,000.
Integrity commissioner Charles Murray said he did not contact prosecutors because Macdonald has registered properly for other clients, tried to register for Canadian Health Labs and eventually approached his office about the breach voluntarily, albeit months late.
The law is designed "to encourage transparency. It's not designed to punish wrongdoing as much as it is to encourage [transparency]," Murray said.
"It's a voluntary scheme in many ways. So our goal is always to inform and to educate and to correct errors, rather than to punish someone. … Better to register you late than not at all, and better to register you with what information you're able to obtain than no information."
Macdonald said in his public registration that the focus of his work for Canadian Health Labs was "continuing and expanding" the company's business in New Brunswick.
In his statement to CBC News, he said no contracts resulted from his lobbying.
"I was never involved in the CHL contracting process," he said.
Two agreements were signed when Canadian Health Labs was represented by another lobbyist, Jordan O'Brien, a former chief of staff to former Liberal premier Brian Gallant.
Two
agreements with Canadian Health Labs were signed when the company was
represented by another lobbyist, Jordan O’Brien, a chief of staff to
Brian Gallant, former Liberal premier. (Twitter)
O'Brien and Jacqueline Durnford, a colleague at the firm Porter O'Brien, registered as lobbyists for the company in May 2022.
"We undertook government affairs work for CHL beginning in December 2021 and ending in July 2022," O'Brien said in a statement.
In its February investigation the Globe and Mail revealed that the company had three contracts with the Vitalité health authority, with a maximum total value of $158 million.
The company provided travel nurses at rates of up to $300 per hour to fill shortages in provincial hospitals.
Integrity commissioner Charles Murray says it's better to register late 'than not at all.' (Ed Hunter/CBC)
The spending pushed Vitalité $98 million over budget in the 2023-24 fiscal year, an expense the health authority has defended as "unavoidable" given its staffing crisis.
Days after the Globe story broke, the deputy minister for the health department, Eric Beaulieu, defended the agreements to a committee of MLAs.
"It is not an aspect that either the department, the minister, or the RHAs wish to continue long term, but I will say it was necessary at the time they were signed," he said.
Beaulieu said the department knew about the first contract with Vitalité when it was signed on July 29, 2022, but learned after the fact of the other two, which were dated Nov. 16, 2022, and Dec. 2, 2022.
The Department of Social Development also used Canadian Health Labs for a contract for more than $2 million to provide nurses for long-term care facilities from February to May 2022.
The Social Development contract and the first of the three Vitalité contracts were signed while O'Brien was representing the company.
"It wouldn't be my place to speak to details so I would defer to my former client in that regard," O'Brien said in his statement.
Interview request denied
Canadian Health Labs turned down a request to interview CEO Bill Hennessey and did not respond to questions about its use of lobbyists or how it chose them.
"When CHL is awarded a contract, it is a result of its track record of helping Canadians access quality healthcare by solving staffing shortages," the company said in a written statement.
The auditor-general is now examining the contracts.
In a statement, government spokesperson Bruce Macfarlane confirmed that O'Brien played a role in "facilitating" contracts, while Macdonald's lobbying did not lead to new agreements.
Higgs said in March that the contracts were a situation "where it seems like we could have got better value."
In his registration, Macdonald listed Higgs among the officials that he intended to lobby.
The premier's spokesperson, Nicolle Carlin, said Higgs never met with Macdonald about CHL and never met with anyone from the company.
Macdonald also listed Health Minister Bruce Fitch, Finance Minister Ernie Steeves, then-local government minister Daniel Allain, as well as Beaulieu, clerk of the executive council Cheryl Hansen and Higgs's then deputy chief of staff Paul D'Astous.
Macdonald was a PC MLA from 2010 to 2018, serving with Higgs and Fitch.
No law against it
There is no law against a former politician lobbying former colleagues on behalf of clients, as long as they observe a 12-month "cooling off" period after leaving office and register publicly.
The website for his lobbying company, Waterloo Strategies, includes a photo of him with Higgs, PC MLA Jeff Carr, former MLA Jody Carr and two other people.
Macdonald has hosted at least two PC Party fundraising events for Higgs at his Fredericton home and donated a total of $1,680 to the provincial party from 2021 to 2023.
He was nominated as the Conservative Party of Canada candidate for Fredericton earlier this year.
In March, federal Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre called corporate lobbyists "utterly useless," but CBC News recently revealed that dozens of federally registered lobbyists attended fundraisers with him.
O'Brien and Durnford did not earn commissions on the value of the contracts signed by Canadian Health Labs.
They also represented the company in Newfoundland and Labrador, where the firm signed several contracts with health authorities.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
In his registration, Macdonald listed Higgs among the officials that he intended to lobby.
The premier's spokesperson, Nicolle Carlin, said Higgs never met with Macdonald about CHL and never met with anyone from the company.
Macdonald also listed Health Minister Bruce Fitch, Finance Minister Ernie Steeves, then-local government minister Daniel Allain, as well as Beaulieu, clerk of the executive council Cheryl Hansen and Higgs's then deputy chief of staff Paul D'Astous."
What part of that don't we understand?
Ronald Reagan.
If that is true then why was a lobbyist lobbying the premier for a travel nurse company?
"The oil and gas industry’s lobbyists met with federal government officials a minimum of 86 times in January."
https://environmentaldefence.ca/2023/03/21/irving-tops-list-of-busiest-oil-gas-lobbyists-for-second-month-in-a-row/There is no dept to which NB politicians won't sink.
"Macdonald told CBC News that he tried to register when he was hired last year but the process required him to list all of the company's contracts across Canada."
At the end of the day, if he was unable to register initially, why did he believe it would be ok to lobby and of course get paid.
Why is it that we accept these types or reasons as something that exempts or forgives the party that is not compliant with the regs.
Examples like the clearly illustrate what is wrong in our system and why the authorities need to be far less tolerant of non compliance.
>so the 15 day deadline rule was missed by 340 days. and if it didn't make headlines registering would probly still not have been done.
why do some folks think that "rules and guidelines" don't apply to them??
Brian Macdonald
Biography
Brian Macdonald is a bilingual senior political and corporate affairs executive with a government, defence, and security background. Throughout Brian's career, he has served in various leadership roles in the private and public sectors.
Prior to joining Samuel Associates as a Senior Political Associate, Brian was an executive at Scotiabank in Toronto, where he served as the Director of Crisis Management. As part of a small elite team working with Scotiabank's Operations, IT and Security divisions, he was responsible for enhancing the bank's daily operational readiness and, when required, for acting quickly and efficiently in a crisis.
Before his career in the financial sector, Brian served in an elected capacity for two terms as a Member of the Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick (MLA), representing Fredericton-Silverwood in 2010 and Fredericton West-Hanwell in 2014. During his time in elected office, he was appointed as New Brunswick's first Legislative Secretary for Military Affairs. In this political leadership position, Brian raised awareness about the vital role that the Canadian Armed Forces plays in the province, throughout Canada and internationally. He championed an open dialogue to support veterans transitioning from the military to the private sector. While in opposition, he served as Health Critic. Brian advocated strongly for increased ambulance service throughout New Brunswick and better support for those suffering from mental health illness and related issues.
Previous to holding elected office, Brian was a Senior Political Advisor to the Minister of National Defence in Ottawa. In this role, he was responsible for providing strategic advice and political recommendations to the Minister concerning two strategic initiatives: The Canada First Defence Strategy and the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy.
Brian served with the Royal Canadian Regiment in Petawawa, Ontario. He commanded troops overseas, where he completed two tours in Bosnia and a special security assignment in support of a G8 Summit. He then transferred to the British Army to work as a consultant on the Iraqi Currency Exchange Project and was deployed to Afghanistan on counter-narcotics operations.
Brian received his B.A. Honours from the Royal Military College of Canada. During his undergraduate studies, he also participated in an exchange program to the Australian Defence Force Academy, where he lived and studied in Canberra, Australia. In pursuit of higher education, Brian is a Mackenzie King Travelling Scholar, who received his Master's degree from the London School of Economics.
Currently, Brian resides in New Brunswick and serves on the Veterans Transition Network Board, where he continues to champion the need for better support services to help veterans receive mental health services nationwide. In his capacity to develop next-generation private and public sector leaders, he works as an advisor providing experiential learning and leadership training to two business universities: The Smith School of Business at Queen's University and the Ivey School of Business at the University of Western Ontario.
Ottawa, Ontario
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Cecil is an award-winning investigative journalist, book writer and educator. He has worked in print, broadcast and online journalism for more than 40 years, focusing for most of his career on investigative work. In his career at the CBC, he was an investigative producer, a senior and executive producer, a managing editor for CBC Manitoba, a director of investigative work for CBC regions, and executive producer of CBC’s flagship investigative program, The Fifth Estate. He has won Michener, Gemini, Columbus, New York Festivals and many other awards throughout his career, and was given a lifetime achievement award by RTDNA in 2019. He co-authored When Justice Fails: the David Milgaard Story, and also wrote the definitive Behind the Headlines: a History of Investigative Journalism in Canada. His latest book, released in October 2023, is called Manipulating the Message: How Powerful Forces Shape the News. Cecil has trained journalists in every province and territory, and internationally, in the principles of enterprise and investigative journalism. Since 2005, he has taught a course on Investigative Journalism at the University of Winnipeg, where he is an adjunct professor. He also teaches a course in media literacy and critical thinking at the University of Manitoba. He lives in Winnipeg.
cecil.rosner@theijf.org
https://news.umanitoba.ca/jewish-post-and-news-cecil-rosner-to-teach-new-course-on-media-literacy/
Jewish Post and News: Cecil Rosner to teach new course on media literacy
To help people decode media
April 4, 2023 —As reported in the Jewish Post and News (print edition):
I’ve developed and will be teaching a new course that your readers might be interested in.
It’s designed to help people decode news media, spot disinformation, and it teaches techniques of investigative journalism so people can find information on their own.
These are some of the things I’ve been teaching to journalists, mostly inside the CBC, for the last 30 years. This is a six-week online course open to anyone. The reality is that anyone can use these techniques. They just need to know where to look and how to do it.
It’s offered by my old alma mater: University of Manitoba. Because it’s a non-credit course, anyone can take it, and the university awards a credential on completion.
The course runs May 8 – June 16.
– Cecil
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Martin is a graduate of Columbia University’s Lede Program for Data Journalism and the former editor-in-chief of the Western Gazette. MORE
Sam Park
Data Analyst
Sam is a computer science graduate who strives to create meaningful products with his skills. MORE
Stephanie Li
Web Developer Intern
Stephanie is a Toronto-based web developer and neuroscience graduate with a a passion for user-experience/user-interface design. MORE
Adam Soames
News Applications Developer
Adam is a Master of Environmental Science student at Thompson Rivers University in Kamloops BC. He specializes in invasive plant research, but lends his programming experience to the IJF. MORE
Xinyan Fu
Audience Development Associate
Xinyan is a Toronto-based audience strategist and interactive designer. She previously worked at The Markup and Fortune as a social media producer. MORE
Anthony Chung
Donor Relations Intern
Anthony is a fundraising professional who previously worked at VideoCabaret, Fall for Dance North Festival and Canada’s National Ballet School. He is a graduate of the University of Toronto. MORE
Will Jettinghoff
Research & Development Associate
Will is a data scientist working on making the IJF's data more accessible through interactive data visualizations. MORE
Ashley Desautels
Research & Development Associate
Ashley is a Kamloops-based researcher with a customer service background who is working with the IJF to help build data-sharing systems and relationships with government agencies. MORE
Luke Conkin
Research & Development Associate
Luke is a bilingual legal researcher based out of British Columbia. MORE
Michael Pereira
Contributing Editor
Michael is an award-winning journalist. He was the lead developer on the Globe and Mail’s Unfounded series and is also an alumnus of the CBC and the Winnipeg Free Press.
Fatima Syed
Contributing Editor
Fatima is a reporter at The Narwhal. She is an alumna of the National Observer, Canadaland, The Toronto Star and The Walrus.
ACADEMIC PARTNERS
April Lindgren
Toronto Metropolitan University Professor at the School of Journalism
Lindgren is principal investigator for the Local News Research Project and editor-in-chief of the Local News Data Hub, a reporting initiative committed to training student data journalists and shoring up local journalism by supplying newsrooms with data-driven stories.
Matt Malone
Thompson Rivers University Assistant Professor of Law
Malone’s research focuses on various ways law protects secret information, including in the context of access to information. He is the founder and lead of the Open by Default database project, which shares documents made available through Canada’s Access to Information Act.
Christopher Cochrane
University of Toronto Associate Professor of Political Science
Cochrane is also interim chair, undergraduate of the department of political science at the University of Toronto Scarborough. He helps run the Linked Parliamentary Data Project, which digitized the written record of debate in the House of Commons.
Rohan Alexander
University of Toronto Assistant Professor of Information and Statistical Sciences
Alexander is also the assistant director of CANSSI Ontario, a senior fellow at Massey College, and a co-lead of the Data Sciences Institute Thematic Program in Reproducibility.
Harold Jansen
University of Lethbridge Professor of Political Science
Jansen is also interim University Librarian. In 2018, he became an associate dean in the faculty of arts and science. He has been teaching at UoL since 1998, focusing on Canadian political parties, elections, political finance, and digital political communication.
Lisa Young
University of Calgary Professor of Political Science
Young is the author of Feminists and Party Politics, co-author of Rebuilding Canadian Party Politics and Advocacy Groups, and co-editor of Money, Politics and Democracy. She was president of the Prairie Political Science Association from 2020-2022.
Randy Besco
University of Toronto Assistant Professor of Political Science
Besco’s research focus is on elections and public opinion, especially related to race and immigration. He has worked on projects examining the impact of gender and ethnic differences on political donation trends in Canada.
Holly-Ann Garnett
Royal Military College of Canada Associate Professor of Political Science
Garnett is cross-appointed at the department of political studies and School of Policy Studies at Queen’s University (Kingston), and an Honourary Research Fellow at the University of East Anglia (U.K.). She is co-director of the Electoral Integrity Project and co-investigator with the Consortium on Electoral Democracy.
Jacob Robbins-Kanter
Bishop’s University Assistant Professor of Politics and International Studies
Robbins-Kanter is a Canadian politics specialist whose research focuses on political parties, political communication, and representation. He is currently preparing a book manuscript that examines the relationship between local campaigns and party headquarters during Canadian federal elections.
BOARD OF DIRECTORS
The Board of Directors includes Zane Schwartz and the following four experienced leaders:
Brent Jolly
Chair
President of the Canadian Association of Journalists. Managing Director at National NewsMedia Council. Judge at National Newspaper Awards.
Sadia Zaman
Director
CEO of the Inspirit Foundation. Past Managing Director of the Royal Ontario Museum, Director at CBC News, and Executive Director of Women in Film and Television-Toronto.
Karyn Pugliese
Director
Editor-in-Chief of Canada's National Observer. Past managing editor of investigative journalism at CBC News, executive director of news at Aboriginal Peoples’ Television Network and Harvard Nieman Fellow.
John Ruffolo
Director
Managing Partner of Maverix Private Equity. Board Member at the Royal Ontario Museum and the CIBC Foundation. Co-founder of the Council of Canadian Innovators. Past CEO of OMERS Ventures.
We want you to leak to us
Is there a story we should be doing? Do you have information about corruption, mismanagement, or other misdeeds in Canada that the public should know about?
Below are several ways to reach us, including confidential channels that use the latest security practices. Please be as specific as possible in your tips: who is being harmed and who is doing the harming? Why does it matter? Is it part of a bigger problem or is it an isolated case? What kind of proof do you have?
Please include evidence (documents, audio, video, images, data) if possible.
For extra privacy, don’t use a computer, account, or internet connection associated with your workplace to contact use.
Please do not use these channels for audience feedback, freelance pitches, or PR materials.
Although email is the easiest way to reach us, it’s not private. Your email provider (and ours) will have a record of your communication with us, including the contents. Think of an email like a postcard. If you’re okay with that, we welcome tips at tips@theijf.org.
If you want to reach us by email and don’t have a suitable email address, Protonmail is a good free email provider that you can use. However, it won’t make you anonymous.
PGP
A more secure way to send email is to encrypt the contents using PGP. This doesn’t disguise the fact that you are sending an email to us, so it’s not fully anonymous.
It’s also complicated to set up, even for technical people. We suggest using one of the contact methods below. If you want to use PGP, here are guides for Windows, Mac and Linux. If you use Gmail, PGP can be easily added using FlowCrypt.
Send your PGP-encrypted email to tips@theijf.org.
PGP fingerprint: CAC7 B29B B0DC C956 AB6B 3301 567B EBCF BF4C 6E3F
Signal
Signal is a free, secure messaging app on iOS and Android. It uses end-to-end encryption and does not store user data, so the contents and recipient of your message are kept secret—even from Signal itself.
To be extra safe, don’t save our number in your phone’s contact list, just type it into Signal directly when you want to message us. Consider using a secondary phone number to reach us if you don’t want your message to be associated with your personal number. Here’s a guide on using Signal with a secondary number. And here’s one on how to make your use of Signal as secure as possible.
Contact us on Signal with this number: (647) 955-3304
WhatsApp is a free, widely-used messaging service offered by Meta, Facebook’s parent company. Although messages are encrypted, user information can be collected by Meta, and messaging us on WhatsApp will leave a metadata trail linking your account and ours. It’s also easy to accidentally backup messages onto cloud services like Google Drive. Be mindful of these risks when using WhatsApp.
Contact us on WhatsApp with this number: (647) 955-3304
Postal mail
Regular mail can be a convenient and secure way to send us information. But it’s good to take certain precautions. For example, don’t include a return address, and send it from a post office or mailbox that you don’t normally use.
Also, some office printers add invisible watermarks to paper to trace the time and place of printing, so consider making photocopies of printouts in a print shop or sending a USB drive with screenshots. One thing to be aware of regarding postal mail is that, if you follow the above directions, we won’t have a means of contacting you with any follow up questions about what you send.
You can send us mail at this address:
Investigative Journalism Foundation
192 Spadina Ave.
Toronto, Ontario
M5T 2C2
Tips to maximize anonymity
The contact methods above come with different benefits and tradeoffs. To maximize anonymity, consider taking these extra steps:
- Don’t contact us from a work device or using work internet connection, even on your personal phone.
- Don’t look up theijf.org on your work computer or sign up to our newsletter with a work email.
- Don’t contact us on social media or engage with our posts.
- Consider the consequences of being traced to us via your personal email, phone number or social media accounts. Consider using throwaway accounts to reach us.
- If you have access to sensitive documents at work, can a leak be traced back to you? Would printing, downloading or transferring a file be logged? You may need to get creative. For example, Frances Haugen, the Facebook whistleblower, took pictures of thousands of pages of internal reports on her computer screen.
- Clean up traces of your whistleblowing activities, even on personal devices. Delete browsing histories, browser caches, and Signal/WhatsApp/SMS messages.
- Better yet, browse using incognito mode while using a VPN or an anonymous browser like Tor to ensure you’re not accidentally logged into other accounts and that your IP address isn’t logged.
- Don’t tell anyone else that you’re leaking sensitive information to the press. Even if you trust that person, it’s impossible to know when something might slip.
- If your risks are especially high, consider using a public wifi, such as those in cafes, libraries, or airports, to learn about tools like TailsOS and Tor Browser. TailsOS is an operating system that runs off a DVD or USB key and leaves no digital trace. You can use it to create a new Protonmail account to communicate with us.
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From: MinFinance / FinanceMin (FIN) <fin.minfinance-financemin.fin@canada.ca>
Date: Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: Methinks Jacky Boy Keir and his LIEbrano cohorts are too Happy Happy Happy these days to suit some folks N'esy Pas Minister Mikey Holland?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
The Department of Finance acknowledges receipt of your electronic correspondence. Please be assured that we appreciate receiving your comments.
Le ministère des Finances accuse réception de votre correspondance électronique. Soyez assuré(e) que nous apprécions recevoir vos commentaires.
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 8:21 AM
Subject: Methinks Jacky Boy Keir and his LIEbrano cohorts are too Happy Happy Happy these days to suit some folks N'esy Pas Minister Mikey Holland?
To: Holland, Mike (LEG) <mike.holland@gnb.ca>, wharrison <wharrison@nbpower.com>, gthomas <gthomas@nbpower.com>, <Andrea.AndersonMason@gnb.ca>, Robert. Jones <Robert.Jones@cbc.ca>, jesse <jesse@viafoura.com>, news <news@dailygleaner.com>, <nben@nben.ca>, premier <premier@gnb.ca>, blaine.higgs <blaine.higgs@gnb.ca>, dominic.leblanc.c1 <dominic.leblanc.c1@parl.gc.ca>, Dominic.Cardy <Dominic.Cardy@gnb.ca>, jeff.carr <jeff.carr@gnb.ca>, Ginette.PetitpasTaylor <Ginette.PetitpasTaylor@parl.gc.ca>, Sherry.Wilson <Sherry.Wilson@gnb.ca>, Ross.Wetmore <Ross.Wetmore@gnb.ca>, <megan.mitton@gnb.ca>, David.Coon <David.Coon@gnb.ca>, Arseneau, Kevin (LEG) <Kevin.A.Arseneau@gnb.ca>, Newsroom <Newsroom@globeandmail.com>, Nathalie Sturgeon <sturgeon.nathalie@brunswicknews.com>, nick.brown <nick.brown@gnb.ca>, Kevin.Vickers <Kevin.Vickers@gnb.ca>, Tim.RICHARDSON <Tim.RICHARDSON@gnb.ca>, Trevor.Holder <Trevor.Holder@gnb.ca>, Mike.Comeau <Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca>, carl. davies <carl.davies@gnb.ca>, carl.urquhart <carl.urquhart@gnb.ca>, Cathy.Rogers <Cathy.Rogers@gnb.ca>, robert.gauvin <robert.gauvin@gnb.ca>, Roger.L.Melanson <roger.l.melanson@gnb.ca>, Roger.Brown <Roger.Brown@fredericton.ca>, ron.tremblay2 <ron.tremblay2@gmail.com>, Bill.Morneau <Bill.Morneau@canada.ca>, premier <premier@ontario.ca>, <neil.jacobsen@atlanticaenergy.org>, <david.merrithew@saintjohn.ca>, <Don.Darling@saintjohn.ca>, <oldmaison@yahoo.com>, <andre@jafaust.com>, <kris.austin@gnb.ca>, <rick.desaulniers@gnb.ca>, <michelle.conroy@gnb.ca>, <steve.murphy@ctv.ca>, <hugh.flemming@gnb.ca>, <denis.landry2@gnb.ca>, <Stephen.Horsman@gnb.ca>, <Dorothy.Shephard@gnb.ca>, <robert.mckee@gnb.ca>, <David.Akin@globalnews.ca>, <jack.keir@gnb.ca>, briangallant10 <briangallant10@gmail.com>
Cc: <philippe@dunsky.com>, <Steven_Reid3@carleton.ca>, <motomaniac333@gmail.com>, darrow.macintyre <darrow.macintyre@cbc.ca>, Chuck.Thompson <Chuck.Thompson@cbc.ca>, sylvie.gadoury <sylvie.gadoury@radio-canada.ca>
---------- Original message ----------
From: "MinFinance / FinanceMin (FIN)" <fin.minfinance-financemin.fin
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 03:52:22 +0000
Subject: RE: Methinks Minister Mikey Holland and the CBC are way past
too late to try to act ethical now N'esy Pas Higgy?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.c
The Department of Finance acknowledges receipt of your electronic
correspondence. Please be assured that we appreciate receiving your
comments.
Le ministère des Finances accuse réception de votre correspondance
électronique. Soyez assuré(e) que nous apprécions recevoir vos
commentaires.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada
Want to understand Hydro-Québec's Mactaquac plan? Look south of the border
While Quebec will sell more energy to New Brunswick, New England may
be the real target
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Jan 20, 2020 5:00 AM AT
14 Comments
David Raymond Amos
Oh My My
Methinks Jacky Boy Keir and his cohorts are too Happy Happy Happy
these days to suit some folks N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Methinks some of Minister Mikey's
minions must recall the NB-NBSO-NERC MOU that Jacky Boy Keir signed On
Oct 3rd, 2008 if not not the EUB and Neil Jacobsen now working for
Atlantica certainly should N'esy Pas?
Enjoy a little Deja Vu You dudes were having your yap sessions while
Higgy sent other people to meet secretly at the WU Centre in order for
Yankees to create a very questionable "Strawman Report" for the
benefit of NB Power and the EUB N'esy Pas?
July 29, 2019/le 29 juillet 2019
STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS/
COMITÉ PERMANENT DES COMPTES PUBLICS
AGENDA/ORDRE DU JOUR
Tuesday, August 6, 2019, from 1 p.m. until 6 p.m./
le mardi 6 août 2019 de 13 h à 18 h
Donald Darling
Mayor of Saint John/Maire de Saint John
City of Saint John/Ville de Saint John
Judy Wagner
Former Clerk of the Executive Council/Ancienne greffière du Conseil exécutif
Current Deputy Minister of Policy and Legislative Affairs and
Secretary to Cabinet/
Sous-ministre actuelle des politiques et des affaires législatives et
secrétaire du Cabinet
Executive Council Office/Bureau du Conseil exécutif
Brian Gallant, Q.C./c.r.
Former Premier of New Brunswick/Ancien premier ministre du Nouveau-Brunswick
Member of the Legislative Assembly for Shediac Bay-Dieppe/
Député provincial de Baie-de-Shediac—Dieppe
Jack Keir
Former Working Group Member and employee of the Office of the Premier/
Ancien membre du groupe de travail et employé du Cabinet du premier ministre
Lee C. Bell-Smith, Q.C./c.r.
Former Deputy Attorney General/Ancien sous-procureur général
Wednesday, August 7, 2019, from 9 a.m. until 12 p.m., from 1 p.m. until 6 p.m.
le mercredi 7 août 2019 de 9 h à 12 h, de 13 h à 18 h
Joint Working Committee/Comité de travail mixte
Province of New Brunswick Members/
Membres représentant le gouvernement du Nouveau-Brunswick
Joel Dickinson
Former Co-Chair of Joint Working Committee/
Ancien coprésident du comité de travail mixte
Current Assistant Deputy Minister and Deputy Chief Operating Officer/
Sous-ministre adjoint et chef adjoint des opérations actuel
Executive Council Office/Bureau du Conseil exécutif
Elizabeth Hayward
Current Secretary to the Working Committee/
Secrétaire actuelle du comité de travail
Current Senior Advisor to the Deputy Minister for Policy and
Legislative Affairs/Conseillère principale actuelle de la
sous-ministre des politiques et des affaires législatives
Executive Council Office/Bureau du Conseil exécutif
City of Saint John Members/
Membres représentant la ville de Saint John
Neil Jacobsen
Former Co-Chair of Joint Working Committee and Acting City Manager/
Ancien coprésident du comité de travail mixte et directeur municipal par intérim
Current Deputy City Manager/Directeur municipal adjoint actuel
City of Saint John/Ville de Saint John
Jeff Trail
Former Co-Chair of Joint Working Committee and Saint John City
Manager/Ancien coprésident du comité de travail mixte et directeur
municipal de Saint John
Current Deputy Chief Administrative Officer/
Directeur municipal adjoint actuel
City of Fredericton/Ville de Fredericton
Kevin Fudge
Commissioner of Finance and Treasurer/
Commissaire des finances et trésorier
City of Saint John/Ville de Saint John
Cheryl Hansen
Deputy Minister/Sous-ministre
Department of Finance and Treasury Board/
Ministère des Finances et Conseil du trésor
Patricia MacKenzie
Deputy Secretary to Cabinet/Secrétaire adjointe du Cabinet
Executive Council Office/Bureau du Conseil exécutif
Jordan O’Brien
Former Chief of Staff/Ancien chef de cabinet
Office of the Premier/Cabinet du premier ministre
Jacques Pinet
Former Chief Executive Officer, Jobs Board Secretariat/
Ancien président-directeur général, Secrétariat du Conseil de l’emploi
Former President of the Regional Development Corporation/
Ancien président de la Société de développement régional
Thursday, August 8, 2019, from 9 a.m. until 12 p.m., from 1 p.m. until 6 p.m.
le jeudi 8 août 2019 de 9 h à 12 h, de 13 h à 18 h
Ann Marie Wood-Seems
Vice President/Vice-présidente
Regional Development Corporation/Société de développement régional
Kelli Simmonds
Deputy Minister/Sous-ministre
Department of Environment and Local Government/
Ministère de l’Environnement et des Gouvernements locaux
Kim MacPherson
Auditor General/Vérificatrice générale
Office of the Auditor General of New Brunswick/
Bureau du vérificateur général du Nouveau-Brunswick
http://www.atlanticaenergy.org
Senior Policy Consultant
Neil Jacobsen
neil.jacobsen@atlanticaenergy.
Neil JacobsonNeil’s exposure to the energy sector is deep-rooted.
Neil previously served as Assistant Deputy Minister with the New
Brunswick Department of Energy and Mines, where he led the team that
managed energy related policy, planning and regulatory affairs
activities for the Province of New Brunswick. Neil recently co-led a
strategic “value-optimization” initiative with the City of Saint John
and Saint John Energy focused on positioning the utility and
municipality for sustainable growth through product and service
innovation and the pursuit of new renewable energy development
opportunities.
Neil has also spent close to two decades successfully promoting
economic growth and diversification in the greater Saint John and
Fundy regions of New Brunswick, having worked in a management capacity
for the Saint John YMCA-YWCA Enterprise Centre, Business Development
Bank of Canada, Saint John Waterfront Development Partnership and
Enterprise Saint John. Through these organizations he has supported
local small business start-ups, coordinated the delivery of a wide
range of small business training and consulting programs, managed a
growing portfolio of business relocation and investment prospects, and
co-launched a nationally recognized multi-million dollar community
redevelopment project on the Saint John waterfront.
Neil grew up involved in a successful family business and has owned
and operated multiple small businesses. He attended the State
University of New York (with honors) and McGill University, where he
received his Bachelor of Engineering degree. He later went on to
receive his Master of Business Administration degree from the Ivey
Business School at Western University in London, Ontario, and recently
completed his certificate in Labour Relations from the Industrial
Relations Centre (IRC) at Queen’s University. Neil also achieved green
belt certification as a lean six sigma process improvement facilitator
in 2017 and was appointed as a Graduate School Teaching Associate
(GSTA) in the School of Graduate Studies at the University of New
Brunswick in 2019.
Neil has been actively involved in a wide range of community
organizations, and has served on the Board of Directors of the Fundy
Trail Development Authority, Atlantica Centre for Energy, Uptown Saint
John, Family Services Saint John and First Night Saint John (founding
President). Neil has also served as the Chair of Small Business Week
for the Fundy Region and Co-Chair of the Saint John Board of Trade’s
Business and Community Development Committee. He remains an active
volunteer with the Greater Saint John YMCA, including Chair of the
2019 Red Triangle Awards Gala and participation on the YMCA’s
Endowment Fund Bursary Committee.
In 2015 Neil was recognized by the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and
the Honourable Perrin Beatty, President and CEO of the Canadian
Chamber of Commerce, “as one of Canada’s Resource Champions for his
outstanding efforts to promote natural resources development and trade
in Canada”. Neil was also invited by the US State Department in 2013
to participate in their International Visitor Leadership Program
(IVLP). The IVLP Program focused on US-Canada energy policy issues and
involved interacting with government, industry, NGO and academic
leaders in Washington, Houston and Denver. Neil was one of three
Canadian participants.
NEW BRUNSWICK ENERGY and UTILITIES BOARD
COMMISSION DE L’ENERGIE ET DES SERVICES PUBLICS N.-B.
Matter 452
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation
for approval and Advanced Metering Infrastructure capital project
Held at the Delta Hotel, Saint John, N.B. on January 16th 2020.
Members of the Board:
Mr. Francois Beaulieu - Vice-Chairman
Mr. Michael Costello - Member
Mr. Patrick Ervin - Member
NB Energy and Utilities Board:
Ms. Ellen Desmond, Q.C.
Mr. David Young
Mr. John Lawton
Mr. Michael Dickie
Chief Clerk: Ms. Kathleen Mitchell
Page 517
VICE-CHAIRMAN: I will start with the appearances with NB Power Corporation?
MR. FUREY: Good morning, Mr. Vice-Chair. John Furey accompanied this
morning by Ms. Doucett, Ms. Clark and4 Ms. Poirier.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Good morning, Mr. Furey. Atlantica Centre for Energy?
No one is here for Atlantica. Mr. Bourque? Mr. Bourque is not here.
J.D. Irving, Limited?
MR. STEWART: Christopher Stewart, Mr. Vice-Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Good morning, Mr. Stewart.
MR. STEWART: Good morning.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: James D. Lane? Mr. Lane is not here. Liberty Utilities?
Mr. Callaghan is not here. Our Environment, Our Choice? Mr. Mckinley
is not here. Dr. Richard?
DR. RICHARD: Oui, je suis ici avec Dr. Tatoutchoup.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Bon matin, Dr. Richard.
DR. RICHARD : Merci.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: T4G Limited? Mr. Flood is not here. Utilities Municipal?
MR. STOLL: Good morning, Mr. Chair, Scott Stoll and with me is Mr. Garrett.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Good morning, Mr. Stoll. The Public Intervener?
MS. BLACK: Good morning, Mr. Vice-Chair. Heather Black.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Good morning, Ms. Black. And New 2 Brunswick Energy and
Utilities Board?
MS. DESMOND: Good morning. It is Ellen Desmond.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Good morning, Ms. Desmond. So Mr. Furey, 5 we have got
the continuance of --
MR. FUREY: Yes.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: -- the examination of Mr. Gilbert?
MR. FUREY: Mr. Gilbert is available for cross-examination by Dr. Richard.
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