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David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @FloryGoncalves and 49 others
Methinks folks should quit reading about lawyers arguing their fees for jokers in a provincial sideshow and pay attention to the clowns the circus called a federal election right now N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/10/lawyers-spar-over-who-foots-bill-for.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-harbour-election-result-court-challenge-costs-1.5318183
Lawyers spar over who foots the bill for Saint John Harbour vote challenge
Costs $400K for lengthy court battle to overturn provincial election result
· CBC News · Posted: Oct 11, 2019 2:44 PM AT
Progressive Conservative Barry Ogden, left, who lost by 10 votes to Gerry Lowe last September, lost his bid to have the results set aside in August. (CBC)
Legal bills for parties involved in the contested election of Liberal MLA Gerry Lowe are approaching a combined $400,000 and much of that amount should be paid by defeated Progressive Conservative candidate Barry Ogden, Lowe's lawyer argued in court Friday.
"Mr. Lowe is the successful person and costs are payable by the loser," Tom O'Neil told Justice Hugh McLellan at a hearing into who should pay what for a lengthy legal fight over results of the 2018 provincial election in the riding.
Lowe beat Ogden by 10 votes on election night in September 2018, a margin that was later confirmed by McLellan in a judicial recount.
But lawyers for Ogden then launched a fight to have the election declared invalid, alleging a variety of irregularities in the results.
Liberal MLA Gerry Lowe's lawyers, Tim McLaughlin, left, and Tom O'Neil, leave the Saint John Law Courts in July. (Roger Cosman/CBC)
McLellan did eventually find nine suspect votes — eight from people who lived outside of the riding and one from someone who voted twice — but in a 48-page decision in August ruled this was not enough to overcome Lowe's 10-vote win. Even if it had been enough, there was no evidence who the nine had voted for, the judge found.
"In my opinion the number of rejected votes that may reasonably be said to produce a substantial effect on the election in Saint John Harbour would have to be a lot more than the 10-vote margin of victory," wrote McLellan.
17 days in court
The legal fight lasted months, involved the production of 10,000 documents and ate up 17 days of court time, which O'Neil blamed on Ogden's legal team revising its claims and arguments as the case proceeded.
"If you had asked me at the start how long it would take I would have said a day or two," said O'Neil.
"It should have been a simple summary application and turned into a horrendous time-consuming trial."
Ogden, left, leaves the Saint John courthouse with his lawyers Kelly VanBuskirk, centre, and Matthew Letson. (Roger Cosman/CBC)
O'Neil said the bill for his legal services was "north of $120,000," while Ogden's lawyers said their own bill was "well in excess" of $100,000. Elections New Brunswick, which was also a party to the case, put its legal fees at at least $150,000.
Ogden lawyer Matthew Letson rejected O'Neil's claim that the case was unnecessarily long and said enough problems were uncovered in the proceeding to require Elections New Brunswick to pay everyone's legal fees.
"In this case, we request the court exercise its discretion to grant costs against the chief electoral officer," said Letson.
"Mr. O'Neil suggests we conducted this case terribly, and we strongly disagree with that. The amendments to the application flowed from the discovery of additional evidence."
O'Neil agreed problems in the Saint John Harbour vote caused by Elections NB workers could make it liable for costs as well, but the agency's lawyer disagreed.
Justice Hugh McLellan said he would issue his decision on who will pay costs by the end of October. (Roger Cosman/CBC)
Fred McElman told the judge that the Elections Act has no provision in it for awarding costs in a legal challenge to an election result, and court precedents going back 140 years suggest that in the absence of wilful wrongdoing by election officials, each party in a contested election is responsible for its own costs.
"The chief electoral officer does not seek any costs in this proceeding," said McElman. "It does submit no costs should be awarded against it.
"There is a distinction where there is bad conduct or intentional improper conduct. My friends have agreed there was no intentional misconduct by any of these local election officers."
McLellan said he would issue a decision by the end of October.
25 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.David Raymond Amos
Methinks folks should quit reading about lawyers arguing about their fees over what happened last year in a provincial election and pay attention to the important political history that is happening in the federal election right now N'esy Pas?
John Smith
elections nb should be paying for this their lack of trained personal lead to the anomalies that brought this ridings election results into question
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @john smith: That what the lawyers are hoping
Fred Brewer
The "loser pays"
principle has been firmly entrenched in our legal system for ages. Why
does Mr. Ogden feel he is exempt from this principle?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Apparently so
Ben Haroldson
Time to outlaw lawyers. And bring in AI to do the job , cause lawyers ani't I.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: Methinks it should a small wonder as to why I enjoy suing lawyers N'esy Pas?
Ben Haroldson
I say the lawyers can try their luck in court. Friggle them, it was public duty.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: No it wasn't
Dave Corbin
well,
maybe the lawyers can swallow the costs and call it their civic duty.
The people of the province are not the people involved and incur no
costs other than providing the courtroom.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Dave Corbin: Methinks lawyers love money too much to even consider such a thing N'esy Pas?
Laurie Clark
Odgen launched a challenge and lost, he should be responsible for all costs.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Laurie Clark: YUP
Andrew Clarkson
How
much would you like to bet the tax payers of New Brunswick will
eventually be burdened with this bill! What a bunch of suckers we are!
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Andrew Clarkson: I would not bet against you
Al Clark
Too funny!Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Al Clark:
Wait and see who gets to pay the bill. Wanna bet it will be us? Would that make it still "funny"?
Wait and see who gets to pay the bill. Wanna bet it will be us? Would that make it still "funny"?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: NOPE
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Al Clark: Well did you go to the debate or didn't you?
Al Clark
Reply to @David
Raymond Amos: As I already replied elsewhere, work interfered, sorry.
You are at the top of the ballot. Bring a snack, the poll I went to
wouldn't take anyone's info til the previous ballot was in the box.
Al Clark
Reply to @Al Clark: Discussions are more interesting without heavy handed censorship...
..
..
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Al Clark: I can't vote
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Al Clark:
Methinks everybody knows that Rogers TV censored my debate on Oct 8th by
failing to offer the last 30 minutes of it for political reasons N'esy
Pas?
Maggie Leard
no
matter the lawyers getting paid by ottawa liberal party etc say
---Barry Odgen deserves to be the elected representative of Saint John
Harbour constituency. Barry has for years tried to bring the true
history of new brunswick and saint john especially to all new
brunswickers. he is an advocate of getting historic partridge island
restored, he brought the 'marco polo' to light for NBers (and suffered
because this ship should have been a 100% replica to sail the seas
representing new brunswick and saint john..) Barry is an educated saint
johner......
(sing again saint john....'i want to be in saint john harbour when the fog begins to roll in.....
(sing again saint john....'i want to be in saint john harbour when the fog begins to roll in.....
David Raymond Amos'
Reply to @Maggie Leard: Cry me a river
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