David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 49 others
Methinks 3 Stooges are enjoying the circus Monday the clowns will argue about 100 million loonies and "Not So Smart Meters" before the EUB AGAIN N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/01/hydro-quebec-to-provide-expertise-in.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/joi-scientific-thomas-update-1.5422154
NB Power CEO says Joi Scientific technology 'may still work'
NB Power has agreed to stop spending money on Joi Scientific, closing its Florida lab
· CBC News · Posted: Jan 10, 2020 2:34 PM AT
NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas posed with Joi Scientific executives Robert Koeneman and Traver Kennedy on a beach in Cape Canaveral, Fla. The utility has a multimillion-dollar licensing agreement with Joi Scientific. (Joi Scientific)
NB Power's CEO says Joi Scientific's hydrogen technology "may still work," even after the province's minister of natural resources and energy development says he hasn't been presented with any proof it's viable.
Speaking to reporters on Friday, after announcing Hydro-Québec will provide expertise in refurbishing the Mactaquac Dam, CEO Gaëtan Thomas said he agreed with Minister Mike Holland's recommendation not to spend any additional money on Joi Scientific.
In response to a question about whether the project was scrutinized properly, Thomas said it was "well scrutinized."
"It was a good idea and it may still work," he said.
"But the viability will take longer. And I've been on the record to say that many times."
The Florida-based startup claims to have found an efficient way to convert seawater to hydrogen, which would be a significant scientific breakthrough, but two former employees have told CBC News that it doesn't work as advertised.
NB Power and the Regional Development Corporation spent $13 million Cdn to license Joi's technology. Additionally, the utility was operating a lab at Joi's Florida headquarters and NB Power spent more than $178,000 US to run that lab in 2019.
On New Year's Eve, Holland told CBC News that NB Power had agreed not to spend any further money on Joi, which spelled the end of the Florida lab.
Holland had previously set a deadline of the end of the year to make a decision on the future of the project, as final tests were underway.
"Once that's completed, either you send me somebody from MIT who says, 'Eureka!' or it didn't deliver the results and then we wrap things up," Holland said in November.
But in December, Holland said those tests were delayed and the "Eureka!" moment hadn't happened.
A final decision
According to a briefing note prepared for Holland in November, any financial commitment to Joi Scientific in 2020 would have been "on a month-by-month basis" and would have depended "on testing results."
It described the decision that Holland ultimately made as a "final 'go' – 'no go' decision."
"Testing had not been able to confirm the energy balance due to the complexity of the design," the briefing note, dated Nov. 5, 2019, also says.
Joi Scientific received a $13 million licensing fee from NB Power, with $6.7 million from the the Regional Development Corporation. (Karissa Donkin/CBC)
"Energy balance is a key area of focus of NB Power's work plan."
Several other details about the current status of the technology were redacted from the copy of the note, which was made public recently via the Energy and Utilities Board.
Thomas will remain on Joi's board
While NB Power won't keep spending on a Florida lab, that doesn't end the utility's relationship with Joi Scientific.
Thomas confirmed he will remain on Joi's board of directors, which is elected each year, until his retirement at the end of May. He isn't compensated for his position on the board and it's tied to the utility, not to him personally.
As of November, a statement from Joi Scientific's vice-president of marketing, Vicky Harris, said the company was committed to working on its technology "in co-operation with our licensees, including NB Power."
The statement said the company has "encountered delays and technical challenges" but was working through them with partners. It didn't elaborate on those delays and technical challenges.
"We remain confident that Joi Scientific is on the right path to create a new, cost-effective, and clean energy source in the form of green hydrogen," the statement said.
40 Comments
David Raymond Amos
Methinks this is just a smoke and mirrors show so folks will be talking about anything other than the NB Power "Not So Smart" Meter hearing beginning next week and the rate increase hearing following shortly afterwards BOTH HELD WITH NO PUBLIC SESSIONS N'esy Pas?
Marc Bourque
OMG is he still kicking that dead horse to save his job!!!!
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Marc
Bourque: No, he is retiring anyway so this is not about saving his job.
It is about saving face. Mr. Thomas, we can see right through this
charade of yours.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Marc
Bourque: Nope Methinks Norm Betts knows somebody who knows somebody who
knows somebody who needed that said N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
What if it worked? Reminds me of that song: ♫ After they hung the rainmaker, they walked home in the rain ♫
Lou Bell
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Sure , and Fantasy Island was real !
Paul Bourgoin
Reply to @Lou Bell: More people believe in Fantasy island then Joi Scientific!
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks 3 Stooges are enjoying the circus Monday the clowns will argue about 100 million loonies and "Not So Smart Meters" before the EUB AGAIN N'esy Pas?
Al Hubble
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Seriously??
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-hydro-quebec-mactaquac-1.5421849
Hydro-Québec to provide 'expertise' in refurbishing Mactaquac Dam
NB Power will also import substantial amount of electricity from Québec
· CBC News · Posted: Jan 10, 2020 9:12 AM AT
The agreement will see the Quebec utility provide its long expertise with hydro dams to NB Power. (Alan White/CBC)
NB Power is turning to Hydro-Quebec for help in refurbishing its largest hydroelectric dam at Mactaquac near Fredericton.
NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas and Hydro-Québec CEO Éric Martel made the announcement at a Friday morning news conference at the dam.
The agreement will see the Québec utility provide its long expertise with hydro dams to NB Power to allow the dam to continue operating until 2068.
"We are happy to share the expertise of Hydro-Québec acquired over the years," Martel said, pointing out the utility recently did a similar refurbishment on its Beauharnois dam near Montreal.
The deal will also see New Brunswick's utility agree to import a substantial new amount of electricity from Québec between now and 2040.
NB Power has been buying hydro power from Quebec since 2012.
The 47 terawatt hours per year is about 15 per cent of NB Power's average annual generation.
That power will fill some of the gap created when Mactaquac's turbines shut down for the refurbishment and will be a positive backup plan if no alternative to coal is found for the Belledune generating station by a 2030 deadline.
The two utilities will also discuss building new transmission lines between the two provinces.
The Mactaquac dam opened in 1968 with an expected service life of 100 years. However, an alkali aggregate chemical reaction in the dam's concrete has been causing the dam to expand over the years, resulting in the expected end of life in 2030.
The cost of a complete rebuild of the dam has been estimated at between $2.7 and $3.6 billion, depending on which option was chosen, a major expense for a Crown corporation and a province already deeply in debt.
But
in 2016 Thomas said it might be possible to extend the life of the
existing dam without a major rebuild, a far less expensive route.
He said Friday the contract with Hydro-Québec for the refurbishment will cost around $100 million, but will represent "hundreds of millions" in savings compared to a costlier full replacement of the dam.
And he said NB Power and its customers will also benefit from the inexpensive supply of hydro power from Québec. "It represents significant savings."
While the utility's large debt won't allow rate reductions on power bills, rate increases will be lower than they would be otherwise, he said.
The two agreements make it easier for NB Power to move towards the federal government's goal of net zero carbon emissions by 2050, Thomas added.
"Net zero doesn't happen without all the energy sources available," he said.
But he warned it may not be possible for the federal government to help pay for the refurbishment from its green infrastructure fund, which specifically mentions transmission projects and renewable energy.
Energy exports to the United States are now tax-free and tariff-free, but federal subsidies could jeopardize that and invite American trade retaliation, the CEO said.
Assuming the refurbishment is approved by the Energy and Utilities Board and through an environmental impact assessment, work could start on the dam in 2025 or 2026.
Friday's announcement comes a decade after the Liberal government of Shawn Graham attempted to sell the Crown utility to Hydro-Québec, a widely unpopular proposal that eventually collapsed.
At the time, Graham said the deal fell apart when Hydro-Québec discovered that the looming cost of refurbishing Mactaquac was greater than originally expected, creating a greater financial risk for the Québec utility.
NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas and Hydro-Québec CEO Éric Martel made the announcement at a Friday morning news conference at the dam.
The agreement will see the Québec utility provide its long expertise with hydro dams to NB Power to allow the dam to continue operating until 2068.
"We are happy to share the expertise of Hydro-Québec acquired over the years," Martel said, pointing out the utility recently did a similar refurbishment on its Beauharnois dam near Montreal.
The deal will also see New Brunswick's utility agree to import a substantial new amount of electricity from Québec between now and 2040.
Already buying Quebec power
NB Power has been buying hydro power from Quebec since 2012.
The 47 terawatt hours per year is about 15 per cent of NB Power's average annual generation.
That power will fill some of the gap created when Mactaquac's turbines shut down for the refurbishment and will be a positive backup plan if no alternative to coal is found for the Belledune generating station by a 2030 deadline.
The two utilities will also discuss building new transmission lines between the two provinces.
The Mactaquac dam opened in 1968 with an expected service life of 100 years. However, an alkali aggregate chemical reaction in the dam's concrete has been causing the dam to expand over the years, resulting in the expected end of life in 2030.
The cost of a complete rebuild of the dam has been estimated at between $2.7 and $3.6 billion, depending on which option was chosen, a major expense for a Crown corporation and a province already deeply in debt.
'Millions' in savings
He said Friday the contract with Hydro-Québec for the refurbishment will cost around $100 million, but will represent "hundreds of millions" in savings compared to a costlier full replacement of the dam.
And he said NB Power and its customers will also benefit from the inexpensive supply of hydro power from Québec. "It represents significant savings."
While the utility's large debt won't allow rate reductions on power bills, rate increases will be lower than they would be otherwise, he said.
The two agreements make it easier for NB Power to move towards the federal government's goal of net zero carbon emissions by 2050, Thomas added.
"Net zero doesn't happen without all the energy sources available," he said.
But he warned it may not be possible for the federal government to help pay for the refurbishment from its green infrastructure fund, which specifically mentions transmission projects and renewable energy.
Energy exports to the United States are now tax-free and tariff-free, but federal subsidies could jeopardize that and invite American trade retaliation, the CEO said.
Assuming the refurbishment is approved by the Energy and Utilities Board and through an environmental impact assessment, work could start on the dam in 2025 or 2026.
Friday's announcement comes a decade after the Liberal government of Shawn Graham attempted to sell the Crown utility to Hydro-Québec, a widely unpopular proposal that eventually collapsed.
At the time, Graham said the deal fell apart when Hydro-Québec discovered that the looming cost of refurbishing Mactaquac was greater than originally expected, creating a greater financial risk for the Québec utility.
About the Author
122 Comments
David Raymond Amos
Surprise Surprise Surprise
There were many deleted comments but the fact that I could not save the exchanges between
Meagaine Trutthough, Marguerite Deschamps and I was too bad because they were kinda special
David Raymond Amos
Methinks folks should not forget that the EUB hearing for NB Power's second attempt to spend 100 million loonies of our money on "Not So Smart" Meters begins Monday morning Perhaps this is just something for folks to talk about in the "Mean" time N'esy Pas?
Ian Scott
No mention made of pulling coal fired plants offline though? Which is the whole reason I could see for buying power from PQ. That avoids carbon taxing on coal plants in the short run. But PQ gets to block NFLD from similar deals , so whats going on is the question one must constantly ask NBP. ? Buy power instead of making it must mean its a low enough cost to allow resale to you and me at profit after decommissioning coal. Now thats ok if its reasonable and it is fully green.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ian Scott: Lets Mention coal fired plants.
Methinks folks should ask Higgy and the EUB ASAP why NB Power is seeking rate increases again this year N'esy Pas?
Cheap coal stoking NB Power's bottom line — for now
Utility reports it is on track to beat its profit target for the first time in five years
Robert Jones · CBC News · Posted: Nov 27, 2019 7:00 AM AT
Methinks folks should ask Higgy and the EUB ASAP why NB Power is seeking rate increases again this year N'esy Pas?
Cheap coal stoking NB Power's bottom line — for now
Utility reports it is on track to beat its profit target for the first time in five years
Robert Jones · CBC News · Posted: Nov 27, 2019 7:00 AM AT
Donald Gallant
Why don’t we just wait for power to come forth from NL Muskrat Falls.
Then do away with MD.
John Brown
Reply to @Donald
Gallant: Don't hold your breath or you will turn shades of blue then
death. That power is like again going to be stolen by Quebec just as
Churchill Falls.
Nick Carver
Reply to @John Brown:
I'm so tired of hearing people complain about the Churchill Falls deal.
Nobody held a gun to Newfoundland's head to force them to sign the
deal. The made the choice...they live with the consequences.
Anne
Bérubé
Reply to @John Brown: New Brunswick has been buying power from Quebec since 2012 and who was Premier then?
BruceJack Speculator
Reply to @Anne Bérubé:
Long before 2012, but maybe not as part of a particular contract. The
Eel River converter station was completed in 1972. The whole purpose of
this station was to permit connecting the grids of Quebec and NB. With
a normal alternating current grid, you cannot connect them directly
because they both have to be in sync on the 60 hertz sine wave so this
connector uses direct current to link the two. According to the
reference I read this was the first station in the world in 1972 to use a
particular technology.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Anne
Bérubé: Methinks we were buying power from Quebec back when they were
refurbishing Coleson Cove and Point Lepreau N'esy Pas?
John Brown
WHAT! How can NB buy electricity from Quebec, when Quebec steals it from Churchill Falls? In addition, all Quebec's hydroelectric projects have been paid for buy the Canadian tax payer as the money came from the Feds, as did the money for Churchill and now Muskrat Falls, which is a fail, but again the Canadian tax payer will pay but not benefit at all. How does Quebec have the right sell any of that power? It should be divided between provinces for FREE, especially to the largest province Ontario with hydro rates 4 times more than Quebec. WHAT A SHAM! How can businesses across the country compete to stay alive when Quebec businesses get cheap electricity to operate? AGAIN....the rest of the country is ripped off blind with taxes and they just hand them over to Quebec, and NL has one of the highest personal debt in the county and they are only 0.5 million people(500,000). It's no wonder the Maritime's got JT reelected, and they lowered the number day to qualify for EI, which is a bribe.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @John Brown: Do you really think politicians have a conscience?
Eugene Peabody
Reply to @John Brown: This is a lot of upside down opinion and bad facts .
The feds help all of the provinces with projects like this and at the same level of sharing.
Quebec ,Manitoba B.C.and NB invested their money into hydro power which a Green source of power not affected by the price of fossil fuels.Therefore it makes for cheaper rates.Ontario ,N.S. ,N.B. made the mistake of putting too much of their capacity into coal which costs too much today.Nuke plants have been a bottomless money pit also which raises rates ,which has been a problem for Ontario and N.B.
So it looks like Quebec made a lot of smart moves years ago by taking advantage of their geography which has given them a distinct advantage of having the lowest rates of Green power today.
The feds help all of the provinces with projects like this and at the same level of sharing.
Quebec ,Manitoba B.C.and NB invested their money into hydro power which a Green source of power not affected by the price of fossil fuels.Therefore it makes for cheaper rates.Ontario ,N.S. ,N.B. made the mistake of putting too much of their capacity into coal which costs too much today.Nuke plants have been a bottomless money pit also which raises rates ,which has been a problem for Ontario and N.B.
So it looks like Quebec made a lot of smart moves years ago by taking advantage of their geography which has given them a distinct advantage of having the lowest rates of Green power today.
Jeff LeBlanc
Damn...
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Jeff LeBlanc: Well put
David Stairs
Another bad decision to fix a bad decision.....our children will regret this ...enough...stop....it's a dead horse....stop the flogging...
Graham
McCormack
Reply to @David Stairs: You are an expert on refurnishing dams now? Man you should be running this place.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Graham
McCormack: Methinks Mr Stairs knows enough not flog a dead horse which
appears to be far more than what you and most politicians know N'esy
Pas?
Ralph Green
Rip the dams out and go nuclear then maybe we can restore the Atlantic salmon back to the St. John river.
Claude DeRoche
Reply to @Ralph Green:
Nuke the salmon?
Nuke the salmon?
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ralph Green: Where is the St. John river?
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Claude DeRoche: No way
Ralph Green
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: lol St. John:)
Ralph Green
Reply to @Claude DeRoche: Canada has the safest nuclear power plants in the world, candu reactors.
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ralph Green: Yea Right
Ralph Green
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: ???
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ralph Green: Methinks thats why Harper paid SNC-Lavalin to take our Nuke company N'esy Pas?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/aecl-sold-for-15m-to-snc-lavalin-1.985786
Ralph Green
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/aecl-sold-for-15m-to-snc-lavalin-1.985786
Ralph Green
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: doesn’t change the fact on the safety of those reactors. Try again:)
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ralph
Green:There is no need if you are releated to the former AG Brad Green.
If not then come to the EUB hearings or Federal Court and debate me in
real space and time.
Ralph Green
Reply to @David
Raymond Amos: lol no I’m not related to brad green:))) before I engage
in any more discussion with you I have a question. Was there ever a
government that you liked federally or provincially???
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ralph
Green: You are definitely politically related and not all that bright
because I made it a point not to mention politics N'esy Pas?
Ralph Green
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: by the way go read your responses to my questions, no politics:)))????
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ralph Green: BTW Like my Forefathers I have a great deal of respect for R.B. Bennett
Ralph Green
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: he’s before my time, you must be up in years:)))
Ralph Green
Reply to @Ralph Green: you older than 55:)?
David
Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ralph
Green: This is your first comment thread in this forum and you certainly
know who I am However I doubt that is your real name
Ralph Green
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: btw I do agree with some of your comments concerning our province.
Ralph Green
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: you must be a liberal.
Michel Forgeron
Reply to @Ralph Green: It's spelled Saint John River, while the city is spelled St. John. Not a big deal.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Michel Forgeron: Which Saint John are you referring to the one at the mouth of our river or the one on The RocK?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ralph Green: "you must be a liberal"
Methinks you should have your friend Mr Forgeron explain Federal Court File No.T-1557-15 to your real slow Better yet perhaps you should come to the EUB hearing on Monday. Trust that I would enjoy introducing you to a few of lawyers who work for you so that they can explain who I am N'esy Pas?
Methinks you should have your friend Mr Forgeron explain Federal Court File No.T-1557-15 to your real slow Better yet perhaps you should come to the EUB hearing on Monday. Trust that I would enjoy introducing you to a few of lawyers who work for you so that they can explain who I am N'esy Pas?
Michel Forgeron
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: If "The Rock" is Newfoundland you're referring to, there is no "Saint John" there. The city in NL is St. John's.
Claude DeRoche
Tear it down, North Eastern America has a huge surplus of electricity
not counting Muskrat Falls coming online sometime in this century!
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Claude DeRoche: Its an earthen dam there is no need to tear it down.
Ralph Green
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: you saying mactaqac is a earthen dam???
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ralph Green:What's the problem with Mactaquac Generating Station?
Mar 10, 2016 - The earthen dam that retains the Mactaquac headpond is a rock-filled structure sealed with clay and does not have AAR problems. This massive rock structure relies on its weight to resist the force of the river while protecting the clay core that prevents water coming through.
Mar 10, 2016 - The earthen dam that retains the Mactaquac headpond is a rock-filled structure sealed with clay and does not have AAR problems. This massive rock structure relies on its weight to resist the force of the river while protecting the clay core that prevents water coming through.
Ralph Green
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: the power generation is concrete.
Claude DeRoche
Name one instance in history where NB Power made the right decision? Only one
Give monetary incentives to municipalities, industry and individuals
and they will invest reducing the burden on the province.
Solar and wind is by far cheaper. Tidal power needs more research.
Mini nuclear reactors when we can't run a full size one?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Claude DeRoche: Good luck getting an answer
Ray Bungay
Ten years ago the province was fool hearty in not selling NBP to Quebec Hydro. This deal today is a win-win for thevrate payers and for commercial customers like Saint John Energy and gives time to fully implement more wind and solar power so New Brunswick can become energy independent by let’s say 2045 and no to little fossil fuel use. This guy Thomas is leaving this year so he finally has done something right. Higgs did the other right thing in telling NBP no more Joi!
Brian Robertson
Reply to @Ray Bungay:
Pipe dream.
We will be freezing in the dark under that sort of policy.
Pipe dream.
We will be freezing in the dark under that sort of policy.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Brian Robertson: Methinks that what Harper's buddy Rotten Ralphy wished upon we the defeated long ago N'esy Pas?
Mark LeBlanc
We should be talking conservation. We have to redirect the late ‘boomer’ admins to a mentality of conservation. Conservation is a far cry cheaper and environmentally friendly than most, if not all, new energy initiatives.
I renovated and restored an old house in Moncton this past year. We used readily available and average priced products to complete this project. #Enercheck did a before and after assessment of energy requirements. Here is the quote from the report; ‘Your initial report stated that your house rated at 168GJ/year and after implementation of the recommendations your energuide rating improved to 60GJ/year. ...reduce your annual energy consumption by 64.2%.' There is nothing magic about this result. Conservation can bring us a long way before we have to consider upgrading or new energy sources.
Mark E LeBlanc, Sunny Brae.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Mark
LeBlanc: Methinks one should balance how old you are and the money spent
versus the money to be saved before spending your first dime. For
instance at my age in the winter months I would rather use the money to
fly to somewhere warm in order to enjoy what time I have left on the
planet and return to my shack and enjoy the other 3 seasons where I was
born and raised and plan to push up daisies forever afterwards N'esy
Pas?
David Peters
"The Mactaquac dam opened in 1968 with an expected service life of 100 years. However, an alkali aggregate chemical reaction in the dam's concrete has been causing the dam to expand over the years, resulting in the expected end of life in 2030. "
...and where did the faulty concrete come from????
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Peters: probably from friends of the party in power.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David
Peters: The cement came down from Quebec but they blame the local
aggregate that was mixed with it to make the concrete. However folks
should find it interesting that nobody will explain to me all the
trouble they are having in Quebec with bridges and overpasses etc that
were built in the same time frame. Methinks it could have been bad
cement not bad aggregate N'esy Pas?
David
Peters
Reply to @David Raymond Amos:
Not to mention Olympic Stadium in Montreal, which, it has been said, was built from the same concrete...and has since fallen apart.
Not to mention Olympic Stadium in Montreal, which, it has been said, was built from the same concrete...and has since fallen apart.
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