From: Karen.Ludwig@parl.gc.ca
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 10:22:11 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: I just heard Bobby Jones on CBC yapping about Smart Meters He must have read the transcripts within the NBEUBmatters 357 and 375 and what I said on the topic by now
To: motomaniac333@gmail.com
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From: "MinFinance / FinanceMin (FIN)" <fin.minfinance-financemin.
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 10:21:58 +0000
Subject: RE: I just heard Bobby Jones on CBC yapping about Smart Meters He must have read the transcripts within the NBEUB matters 357and 375 and what I said on the topic by now
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
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From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 06:21:48 -0400
Subject: Re: I just heard Bobby Jones on CBC yapping about Smart Meters He must have read the transcripts within the NBEUB matters 357and 375 and what I said on the topic by now
To: "darrow.macintyre" <darrow.macintyre@cbc.ca>,
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http://davidraymondamos3.
Friday, 26 January 2018
I just heard Bobby Jones on CBC yapping about Smart Meters
http://davidraymondamos3.
Friday, 26 January 2018
I just heard Bobby Jones on CBC yapping about Smart Meters
---------- Original message ----------
From: "Gallant, Premier Brian (PO/CPM)" <Brian.Gallant@gnb.ca>
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 09:54:37 +0000
Subject: RE: I just heard Bobby Jones on CBC yapping about Smart
Meters He must have read the transcripts within the NBEUB matters 357
annd 375 and what I said on the topic by now
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 09:54:38 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: I just heard Bobby Jones on CBC yapping
about Smart Meters He must have read the transcripts within the NBEUB
matters 357 annd 375 and what I said on the topic by now
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
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---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 05:54:32 -0400
Subject: I just heard Bobby Jones on CBC yapping about Smart Meters
He must have read the transcripts within the NBEUB
matters 357 annd
375 and what I said on the topic by now
To: "darrow.macintyre" <darrow.macintyre@cbc.ca>,
To: "darrow.macintyre" <darrow.macintyre@cbc.ca>,
"Robert. Jones"<Robert.Jones@cbc.ca>,
"David.Coon" <David.Coon@gnb.ca>,
"brian.gallant" <brian.gallant@gnb.ca>, premier <premier@gnb.ca>,
oldmaison <oldmaison@yahoo.com>, "Dominic.Cardy" <Dominic.Cardy@gnb.ca>,
"brian.gallant" <brian.gallant@gnb.ca>, premier <premier@gnb.ca>,
oldmaison <oldmaison@yahoo.com>, "Dominic.Cardy" <Dominic.Cardy@gnb.ca>,
"blaine.higgs" <blaine.higgs@gnb.ca>,
newsroom <newsroom@globeandmail.ca>,
news <news@kingscorecord.com>, "ht.lacroix"
<ht.lacroix@cbc.ca>,
"Furey, John" <jfurey@nbpower.com>,
wharrison <wharrison@nbpower.com>,
rgorman <rgorman@nbeub.ca>,
"rick.doucet" <rick.doucet@gnb.ca>,
ecdesmond <ecdesmond@nbeub.ca>
https://www.telegraphjournal.
September 26, 2017
NB Power wants to buy smart meters - but at what cost?
JOHN CHILIBECK Legislature Bureau
Standard hydro meters could be replaced by smart meters in New
Brunswick as early as 2019.
Photo: Telegraph-Journal archive
FREDERICTON • NB Power plans on buying hundreds of thousands of new
smart meters, devices that could allow the public utility to charge
people a different electrical rate depending on the time of day and
season they use the service.
NB Power spokesman Marc Belliveau told Brunswick News on Tuesday the
utility plans on testing 1,000 smart meters first before buying
thousands more.
But the utility has already asked the provincial regulator — the New
Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board — to consider the program as part
of a rate adjustment hearing that will take place later this year.
If the regulator approves the plan, "we expect to begin installing new
meters in 2019," said Belliveau in an email. "Prior to rolling out any
meters, we plan to begin with the development and testing of software
integrations and business processes. We estimate it will take about
three years to complete the upgrade of the metering network."
Belliveau declined to say how much it would cost to supply NB Power’s
more than 400,000 customers with smart meters, offering that it would
be all part of the scheduled upcoming rate hearing that would apply to
residential and business customers.
He added that utilities had been using advanced metering
infrastructure for 10 years and that the technology continues to
evolve, providing benefits that were not possible when utilities first
began to replace their old meters.
"NB Power is using best practices and lessons learned from these
earlier projects to plan our deployment."
One of those lessons would no doubt be from Ontario, which announced
in 2004 it was going to roll out smart meters, according to a scathing
report by the auditor general in that province.
Ontario Auditor General Bonnie Lysyk said last year that the 4.8
million smart meters installed before 2014 cost customers in that
province nearly $2 billion, more than double the original estimate.
The price worked out to more than $400 for each meter.
https://www.telegraphjournal.
September 26, 2017
NB Power wants to buy smart meters - but at what cost?
JOHN CHILIBECK Legislature Bureau
Standard hydro meters could be replaced by smart meters in New
Brunswick as early as 2019.
Photo: Telegraph-Journal archive
FREDERICTON • NB Power plans on buying hundreds of thousands of new
smart meters, devices that could allow the public utility to charge
people a different electrical rate depending on the time of day and
season they use the service.
NB Power spokesman Marc Belliveau told Brunswick News on Tuesday the
utility plans on testing 1,000 smart meters first before buying
thousands more.
But the utility has already asked the provincial regulator — the New
Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board — to consider the program as part
of a rate adjustment hearing that will take place later this year.
If the regulator approves the plan, "we expect to begin installing new
meters in 2019," said Belliveau in an email. "Prior to rolling out any
meters, we plan to begin with the development and testing of software
integrations and business processes. We estimate it will take about
three years to complete the upgrade of the metering network."
Belliveau declined to say how much it would cost to supply NB Power’s
more than 400,000 customers with smart meters, offering that it would
be all part of the scheduled upcoming rate hearing that would apply to
residential and business customers.
He added that utilities had been using advanced metering
infrastructure for 10 years and that the technology continues to
evolve, providing benefits that were not possible when utilities first
began to replace their old meters.
"NB Power is using best practices and lessons learned from these
earlier projects to plan our deployment."
One of those lessons would no doubt be from Ontario, which announced
in 2004 it was going to roll out smart meters, according to a scathing
report by the auditor general in that province.
Ontario Auditor General Bonnie Lysyk said last year that the 4.8
million smart meters installed before 2014 cost customers in that
province nearly $2 billion, more than double the original estimate.
The price worked out to more than $400 for each meter.
EUB punts rate hearing as NB Power studies $122M smart meter plan
EUB agrees to suspend hearing so it can deal first with NB Power's proposed $122M purchase of smart meters
By Robert Jones, Posted: Sep 26, 2017 6:00 AM AT
NB Power wants to purchase and install smart meters before
it has a rate design hearing. (Ryan Pilon/CBC)
An effort to redesign the way NB Power charges customers for
electricity — generally viewed as bad news for those who heat with
electricity — has been suspended by the New Brunswick Energy and
Utilities Board for one year.
The EUB has agreed to consider an upcoming NB Power application to spend $122 million on new "smart meters" for homes and businesses first.
"The Board finds that the AMI (Advanced Metering Infrastructure) application should precede the rate design hearing and therefore it is in the public interest to grant an adjournment," ruled EUB chairman Raymond Gorman in a brief hearing last week.
NB Power has been under pressure from the EUB to better match prices
it charges for electricity to the cost of producing and distributing
power. That could see consumers paying substantially different prices
for power between summer and winter — even between day and night.
But the utility has argued there is little room to make substantial changes like that until its entire inventory of power meters is upgraded.
"It is NB Power's submission that the rate design proceeding is … premature because it does contemplate discussion of rate design options that might not be available depending on … (smart meter) deployment," NB Power's senior legal counsel John Furey said during arguments for the suspension.
Unlike current units that have to be physically visited to be read, smart meters will connect directly to NB Power computers, allowing individual customers to have electricity consumption tracked several times an hour instead of once a month.
The utility says this will allow it to charge a variety of rates for electricity — more when consumption is higher, such as in the mornings, on weekends and during winter — and less when consumption is lower.
"We are going from reading a customer's meter once a month, so 12 times a year, up to 12 times an hour," former NB Power executive Neil Larlee said during testimony in front of the EUB last February.
But the new meters are expensive, an estimated $92 million to acquire one for each customer and another $30 million to have them installed and made operational.
It's an expense that largely requires EUB approval, something the regulator is expected to hear evidence on this winter and rule on by next spring. NB Power said without that decision being made first, redesigning rates made little sense.
"I don't see how we can have a meaningful process … because we don't
know what rate design options are available or might be precluded in the
event the (smart meter) decision is not to deploy or to deploy," said
Furey.
Because those who heat with electricity consume large amounts of power during high-demand cold snaps, the rate design process is generally expected to result in higher costs for that group.
However, NB Power has argued smart meters will allow for enough discount periods that electric heat customers who move activities such as laundry, dishwashing and showers into the evening will be able to offset some or all of the increases they experience.
NB Power is expected to formally apply to buy and install smart meters provincewide within the next two weeks as part of its next general rate increase application.
The rate design hearing will resume next fall.
The EUB has agreed to consider an upcoming NB Power application to spend $122 million on new "smart meters" for homes and businesses first.
"The Board finds that the AMI (Advanced Metering Infrastructure) application should precede the rate design hearing and therefore it is in the public interest to grant an adjournment," ruled EUB chairman Raymond Gorman in a brief hearing last week.
Energy and Utilities Board chair Raymond
Gorman says the board has delayed the rate design hearing for one year.
(Pat Richard/CBC)
But the utility has argued there is little room to make substantial changes like that until its entire inventory of power meters is upgraded.
"It is NB Power's submission that the rate design proceeding is … premature because it does contemplate discussion of rate design options that might not be available depending on … (smart meter) deployment," NB Power's senior legal counsel John Furey said during arguments for the suspension.
Tracking more frequent
Unlike current units that have to be physically visited to be read, smart meters will connect directly to NB Power computers, allowing individual customers to have electricity consumption tracked several times an hour instead of once a month.
The utility says this will allow it to charge a variety of rates for electricity — more when consumption is higher, such as in the mornings, on weekends and during winter — and less when consumption is lower.
"We are going from reading a customer's meter once a month, so 12 times a year, up to 12 times an hour," former NB Power executive Neil Larlee said during testimony in front of the EUB last February.
Smart meters for $122M
But the new meters are expensive, an estimated $92 million to acquire one for each customer and another $30 million to have them installed and made operational.
It's an expense that largely requires EUB approval, something the regulator is expected to hear evidence on this winter and rule on by next spring. NB Power said without that decision being made first, redesigning rates made little sense.
John Furey, NB Power's senior legal counsel,
argued for the delay in the rate design hearing until the utility
installs smart meters, which record power usage more frequently.
(LinkedIn)
Because those who heat with electricity consume large amounts of power during high-demand cold snaps, the rate design process is generally expected to result in higher costs for that group.
However, NB Power has argued smart meters will allow for enough discount periods that electric heat customers who move activities such as laundry, dishwashing and showers into the evening will be able to offset some or all of the increases they experience.
NB Power is expected to formally apply to buy and install smart meters provincewide within the next two weeks as part of its next general rate increase application.
The rate design hearing will resume next fall.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meters-experts-eub-1.4504618
NB Power's smart meters plan not so smart, 2 expert reviews find
$122M-plan is poorly thought out, should be rejected by EUB, separately commissioned reports conclude
By Robert Jones, CBC News Posted: Jan 26, 2018 6:00 AM AT
NB Power plans to spend $122.7 million over three years to
deploy smart meters for all its residential and commercial customers.
(Ryan Pilon/CBC)
"As currently proposed, the AMI [advanced metering infrastructure] project could commit NB Power and its customers to a heavy cost burden without fully defining and quantifying the future benefits to be gained," wrote Edmund Finamore, a smart meter consultant from Pennsylvania commissioned by public intervener Heather Black to scrutinize the plan.
"It is not clear that NB Power has implemented sufficient project management controls methods to execute a firm plan, achieve firm project milestones and control project costs."
- EUB punts rate hearing as NB Power studies $122M smart meter plan
- Seasonal power rates could cause consumer backlash, says consultant
A second review of the proposal by a Boston-area energy consultant hired separately by the Energy and Utilities Board also found significant flaws.
"NB Power has significantly understated the costs and overstated the benefits of its AMI proposal," says the analysis by a group of five authors working for Synapse Energy Economics out of Cambridge, Mass.
"We recommend that the board reject the company's AMI proposal."
'Essential' to cleaner, more reliable grid
NB Power has been working toward upgrading its distribution system to a "smart grid" over the past six years and the wholesale installation of smart meters and other AMI to serve every customer has long been a centrepiece of the utility's plan.
Unlike current units that have to be physically visited to be read, smart meters will connect directly to NB Power computers, allowing individual customers to have electricity consumption tracked several times an hour instead of once a month.
The utility says this will allow it to charge a variety of rates for electricity — more when consumption is higher, such as in the mornings, on weekends and during winter — and less when consumption is lower.
That in turn will encourage consumers to shift demand to underutilized parts of the day, it says.
"We are going from reading a customer's meter once a month, so 12 times a year, up to 12 times an hour," former NB Power executive Neil Larlee said during testimony in front of the EUB last February.
The meters will also allow customers to sell electricity back to NB Power if they install solar or other power generating capability on their property and will give the utility instant information on outages, including the individual homes affected.
"This communication network along with the AMI meters is essential to a building smarter, cleaner, more reliable and efficient power grid and will lay the foundation for many of the long-term customer benefits that NB Power will deliver through its Energy Smart NB plan," said the utility in its application to the EUB to acquire the units.
Cost outweighs savings
But even NB Power acknowledges the cost of buying, installing and operating 355,000 new smart meters to blanket the province in a three-year rollout is high without enough savings to completely pay for it.
The utility has detailed 15 ways the new meters will cut expenses but the combined benefits total just $121.4 million That's $1.3 million less than the program is budgeted to cost.
'Spending so much money on an initiative that is not essential and not cost effective is unwise.' - Synapse report
Both Finnamore and Synapse Energy disputed the value of several of the claimed savings as inflated and Synapse further argued since NB Power's own numbers show the investment in smart meters will cost money in the long run the case is too weak to proceed.
"The company's own analysis suggests that the proposal is not cost effective and that analysis suffers from some fundamental flaws," concluded the Synapse report.
"Spending so much money on an initiative that is not essential and not cost effective is unwise."
Proposal needs refining
Both consultants suggested if properly handled, the introduction of smart meters could benefit both NB Power and its customers, but each separately concluded the utility's plan lacks detail and a convincing rationale.
Both called for the application to be denied so the utility can offer a more refined proposal.
NB Power is facing a 12-day hearing in front of the Energy and Utilities Board beginning Feb. 8.
In addition to seeking permission to invest in smart meters, it is also attempting to win approval for an average two per cent rate increase it has proposed for April 1 and is asking for the flexibility to employ special rate increases when large unexpected weather or market events cause its costs to jump unexpectedly.
94 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Amos
Methinks folks should start reading what I said within the transcripts of these matters N'esy Pas?
William Reed
The real scandal here is that they have not indicated publicly how they could make profit with these meters going forward. It's not true that these will not be worth the effort. Many utilities are banking they will be hugely profitable in ways not disclosed to customers yet.
Many utilities across NA have strategically placed themselves to be the gatekeepers of information gathering and selling from the homes of their customers. It's been described as as the holy grail of information gathering that many companies have their eyes on. Within these meters is the wireless functionality to collect and relay information from any smart device in your home. In time this will represent a lot of information and an important source of revenue in the information age.
You have to inform yourself as a consumer under legal contract (your terms and conditions). They installed one on my house one day by simply knocking on the door and asking me if they could shut the power off for five minutes and do an upgrade. I realized after the fact that they had installed a smart meter. Knowing about the legal issues that had been stirred up in California, I fired off a letter to NB power asking how my terms and conditions had changed and about the future intent to use any functionality to sample information in my home to their benefit. I was promised an answer by the legal team and never received one. That was over two years ago.
It's not surprising that the auditors don't see the profit in the plan. NB Power have purposely not shed light on the scope of what is possible with these, IMHO. I don't think they have to because they are not using this functionality now and can easily state that they are not considering it yet. This is the thing that reporters should be looking into.
Dianne MacPherson
@William Reed
How could NB Power install a smart meter
on your home when they haven't been approved
yet by the EUB ???
How could NB Power install a smart meter
on your home when they haven't been approved
yet by the EUB ???
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Dianne MacPherson Exactly
Its a small wonder that NB Power and the NBEUB barred me as an Intervener after I raised Hell in the 357 Matter
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/eub-hearing-nb-power-rate-design-smart-meters-1.4305685
EUB punts rate hearing as NB Power studies $122M smart meter plan
EUB agrees to suspend hearing so it can deal first with NB Power's proposed $122M purchase of smart meters
By Robert Jones, Posted: Sep 26, 2017 6:00 AM AT
FYI Here is some old news from CBC about NB Power that caused Bernie Lord to fire the old board.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-has-too-much-freedom-pub-boss-1.572378
NB Power has too much freedom: PUB boss
CBC News Posted: Feb 15, 2006 9:30 AM AT Last
The man in charge of the Public Utilities Board says huge financial losses at NB Power are a direct result of too much freedom and he wants the company to open its books to public scrutiny more often.
The utility wants to raise rates by an average of 11.6 per cent for residential and industrial users on April 1 to make up for projected losses next year.
FROM FEB. 14, 2006: NB Power guesses tax bill, ignores law
But at hearings into that request on Tuesday, PUB chairman David Nicholson blamed the company's poor performance on a lack of supervision and suggested more regulation could have stopped hundreds of millions of dollars from going out the door.
David Amos
@David Amos Why is that I am not surprised that CBC blocked their own words?
Roland Godin
``Hydro-Québec won the
biggest energy deal in its history Thursday as authorities in
Massachusetts approved its proposed Northern Pass Transmission
project.``
We could buy and plug with Massachusetts, even with a mark up it would still cost less than adding to the already huge debt and would satisfy the must not buy from Québec whoevers...et voilà.
We could buy and plug with Massachusetts, even with a mark up it would still cost less than adding to the already huge debt and would satisfy the must not buy from Québec whoevers...et voilà.
David Amos
@Roland Godin FYI I have been
asking why we don't buy our power from Quebec for many years and
everybody just plays dumb. Methinks it was a Major Faux Pas refurbishing
Lepreau particularly in light of the fact that the old PUB said no. But
the not so wiseguy Bernie Lord ignored them and went ahead anyway then
fired them not long afterwards He also lost the election right after
creating NBEUB N'esy Pas?
Check Wikipedia
"In 2002, NB Power, with support from the Government and opposition, pushed for refurbishment. However, the New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board ruled that "there is no significant economic advantage to the proposed refurbishment" of Point Lepreau and that "it is not in the public interest".[20]
In April 2004, a report[21] authored by former British Energy chairman Robin Jeffrey estimated the plant's refurbishment would cost $1.36 billion instead of the C$935 million figure quoted at the time by the provincial utility. Jeffrey's report made no recommendations on whether to undertake the plant's overhaul or not but advised New Brunswick decision makers to seek competitive bids for new fossil-fuel fired generation capacity.[22]
Despite being denied a federal grant to fund the project,[23] NB Power announced on July 29, 2005 that it was awarding Atomic Energy of Canada Limited a $1.4 billion (CAD) contract for refurbishing the generating station.[24]"
Check Wikipedia
"In 2002, NB Power, with support from the Government and opposition, pushed for refurbishment. However, the New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board ruled that "there is no significant economic advantage to the proposed refurbishment" of Point Lepreau and that "it is not in the public interest".[20]
In April 2004, a report[21] authored by former British Energy chairman Robin Jeffrey estimated the plant's refurbishment would cost $1.36 billion instead of the C$935 million figure quoted at the time by the provincial utility. Jeffrey's report made no recommendations on whether to undertake the plant's overhaul or not but advised New Brunswick decision makers to seek competitive bids for new fossil-fuel fired generation capacity.[22]
Despite being denied a federal grant to fund the project,[23] NB Power announced on July 29, 2005 that it was awarding Atomic Energy of Canada Limited a $1.4 billion (CAD) contract for refurbishing the generating station.[24]"
David Amos
@David Amos BTW Need I say it was a small wonder to me that Harper appointed this NB Power lawyer to be a Judge?
@David Amos BTW Need I say it was a small wonder to me that Harper appointed this NB Power lawyer to be a Judge?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-dismissed-reactor-compensation-in-2002-1.879389
"When NB Power was in front of the Public Utilities Board, the precursor to the Energy and Utilities Board, eight years ago, NB Power's lawyers and executives were asked whether the utility would be entitled to compensation if the massive refurbishment project went behind schedule.
"In the real world no one, no one covers those kinds of costs," said Terrence Morrison, NB Power's lawyer, in transcripts from the board.
"I am suggesting that in order to accept that argument the board pick out some rose-coloured glasses and put them on."
Samuel Porter
What's the odds that advice will be followed? -0 percent. Remember people, Atcon 6 is still in control.
David Amos
@Samuel Porter YUP
Ross Piercey
Ever since these smart meters came out all I've heard is they caues fires.
David Amos
@Ross Piercey You are not alone in hearing that
Paul Krumm
NB save money? Dump the excess managers (about 100 compared to other utilities) at a cost of about $200,000 each per year (wages, admin, overhead etc) bingo already $20 million saved with no negative effect except a spike in the unemployment rate.
David Amos
@Paul Krumm I concur NB Power appears to be a retirement abode for old politicians and their cohorts
Robert Dazleus
Sounds like just the kind of investment we're all used to In This Place.
David Amos
@Robert Dazleus I agree
Robert Dazleus
So they're also seeking to increase rates AND permission to bypass the EUB and increase rates when they feel it's justified. Get ready to pay pay pay
David Amos
@Robert Dazleus You have been doing that for years Best get ready to pay more more more
Chantal LeBouthi
As many as 1.7 million Hydro-Quebec customers have made the switch to smart meters – but the devices have many critics complaining about skyrocketing bills.
In some cases, customers say their bills have doubled or tripled since smart meters were installed.
Similar smart meter overbilling concerns have been raised in Ontario, where its ombudsman is investigating some 8000 complaints.
Similar smart meter overbilling concerns have been raised in Ontario, where its ombudsman is investigating some 8000 complaints.
Worst of all, the smart meters haven’t worked (sometimes literally: 812,000, or about 1/6 of all smart meters, have never transmitted to the provincial data center at all): power use hasn’t dropped during peak periods; it has actually increased slightly. The Auditor General noted that “projected net benefits of at approximately $600 million over 15 years were significantly overstated by at least $512 million.” Add in the massive cost overrun, and taxpayers are still out nearly a billion dollars for a project that by any empirical measure has been a complete disaster.
—————————————————-
It’s was a big fiasco in Quebec, Ontario, Saskatchewan
Will be here too
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi "Similar smart meter overbilling concerns have been raised in Ontario, where its ombudsman is investigating some 8000 complaint"
Methinks the lawyer Chucky Murray may be quite busy in the near future N'esy Pas?
Michael G. L. Geraldson
I left rural Ontario because my hydro bill doubled after the installation of a smart meter. Then, I spent two years arguing with them about it. Even though my rates are still too high here, they are nothing like they were when I lived in Ontario.
David Amos
@Michael G. L. Geraldson "I left rural Ontario because my hydro bill doubled after the installation of a smart meter."
You know what political party to thank for that smart meter nonsense correct?
Chantal LeBouthi
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has seen a surge in 'smart meter hacks' which allow consumers to cut expensive power bills from 50 to 75 percent -- providing they're careful about it.
It doesn't take knowing someone in the industry or power tools -- instead, consumers use a low-cost magnet to disrupt readings. Due to the digital nature of smart meters, there have also been cases of hackers being hired to cheat the system for a modest fee.
————————————
Hope nb power know about this because is going to be costly
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi "The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has seen a surge in 'smart meter hacks' which allow consumers to cut expensive power bills from 50 to 75 percent -- providing they're careful about it."
Oh My My Should we consider this good news from the FBI for a change?
Ian Scott
If you work, its pretty hard to change when you have breakfast, and get kids ready for school etc.Same thing at night. NB Power using excuse to target peak times with higher rates. And if you cannot verify when to turn the dryer on(that a low peak time in place) its unlikely you will save a penny. This NB Power in cahoots with Siemens in power grid changes? this is the great incentive, save so we can can charge you more . Consumer tries to be good and help and gets dinged. Typical.
David Amos
@Ian Scott "If you work, its pretty hard to change when you have breakfast, and get kids ready for school etc.Same thing at night. NB Power using excuse to target peak times with higher rates."
That is what I have been pointing out for quite some time now
Shawn McShane
Will NB Power follow the advice or will they pull a Victor Boudreau who went against advice and removed NBers security over Atcon costing taxpayers $70 million???
David Amos
@Shawn McShane Remember when Bernie Lord decided to refurbish Lepreau against the advice of the PUB? Well he fired them and created the EUB just before he lost the election in 2006. Since then the Liberals and the Conservatives have been using the EUB against us.
Roland Godin
While on smart meters, could we have a report on smart politicians artificial intelligent capability of pushing the OFF and ON switch for the consumed preference of their political colours...et voilà.
David Amos
@Roland Godin Methinks thou doth jest too much N'esy Pas?
Paul Bourgoin
As for an experimental beginning to these new smart electrical meters for efficiency in reading electrical consumption and cost analysis, NB POWER should install them in all Commercial Customers first, whose consumption is greater than that of Joe Public. Then Government could establish if it is a worthy money saving experiment for all New Brunswick Residents or a costly indebted experiment for New Brunswick Tax Payers!
David Amos
@Paul Bourgoin "NB POWER should install them in all Commercial Customers first, whose consumption is greater than that of Joe Public."
NB Power to too busy writing the biggest Commercial Customer of them corporate welfare cheques
Joel MacKenzie
The article says that the new meters will cost $122.7M over three years. The benefits are estimated at $121.4M. I didn't see a time frame for that, Is that over the same three year period? I think a return like that over only three years is pretty good. That's $404M over 10 years. Am I missing something? What's the problem?
Chris Rouse
@Joel MacKenzie https://newclearfreesolutions.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/new-clear-free-solutions-matter-375-evidence-web.pdf
David Amos
@Chris Rouse Interesting that you offer your two bits here but won't speak to me in person
Chantal LeBouthi
Smart meters have already sparked controversy across Canada they set to use digital smart meters as a way of doubling the cost of power when families need it Most
It’s a money grab machine nothing to do with energy saving
It’s total bull,,,,,
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi Everybody knows that but the Liberals and NB Power
Chantal LeBouthi
consultant hired by NB Power is warning of significant consumer "backlash" if the utility is made to establish seasonal rates for electricity.
The consultant's report even suggests customers might have to read their own power meters at midnight twice a year — on April Fool's and Halloween — to make the system work.
"Virtually all bills will have errors ... billing disputes can be expected to increase, possibly dramatically, and there will be no means of resolving disputes in a satisfactory way," reads a report
—————————————
So nb power intent to screw us and we want be able to fight it
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi FYI April Fool's and Halloween are two of my favourite days when dealing with NB Power's lawyers. No joke.
Shawn McShane
NB Power is asking for the flexibility to employ special rate increases when large unexpected weather or market events cause its costs to jump unexpectedly.
Its winter the cold, snow, freezing is expected. If it gets sub-zero in the summer that is unexpected. The markets have a glut of cheap electricity and NB rate payers never catch a break. The Pembina Institute's Sara Hastings-Simon says prices are likely to continue to fall (but not for us).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/energy-electricity-cost-1.4428048
David Amos
@Shawn McShane "The markets have a glut of cheap electricity and NB rate payers never catch a break."
Methinks you should ask your MLA why that is before the next election N'esy Pas?
Greg Miller
Does anyone out there really believe that homeowners ,etc are not already using "smart meters" (i.e. their intelligence) to control their expenditure on ever increasing electrical costs? What we need is a SMART Government and SMART innovators to find better ways of meeting our power needs--not gimmicks!
David Amos
@Greg Miller "What we need is a SMART Government and SMART innovators to find better ways of meeting our power needs--not gimmicks"
We also need smart voters
Brian Robertson
Those most likely to not benefit from this plan would be New Brunswickers.
NB Power seems to be chasing technology without giving any thought to how it impacts it's customers. Sure, there are a few goodies involved like quick analysis and diagnosis of outages. But, when the utility talks of charging different rates based upon network demand, they aren't talking about discounted power at off-peak times. They are setting the case for surcharges at times when demand is high.
The net effect to consumers, is the price will be going up.
Does that surprise anyone?
David Amos
@Brian Robertson "The net effect to consumers, is the price will be going up. Does that surprise anyone?"
Not me
Chantal LeBouthi
CBC we know that smart meter are health hazards and fires hazards
Can you check with assurance companies in nb
If a fires is cause by smart meter to a home are they going to sue nb power for the damage and it Rae’s might go up do to the fire risk
Thanks
David Amos
@Chantal LeBouthi "If a fires is cause by smart meter to a home are they going to sue nb power for the damage and it Rate’s might go up do to the fire risk"
Good point
Tim Nason
We get billed once a month. The meter gets read every 4 or 5 months. The system works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
David Amos
@Tim Nason Exactly. However common sense is a rare thing to find within Crown Corporations
Jon White
NB Power wants to spend 122.7 million when they are already sinking fast in debt! Looks like NB Power is taking advice from Ontario Hydro....Just look at the mess Ontario is in with their hydro rates and debt. Then again this dysfunctional NB Power will just pass the mess down to rate payers.
David Amos
@Jon White "NB Power wants to spend 122.7 million when they are already sinking fast in debt!"
Thats their plan
Trevor Boone Helm
The whole thing is ridiculous. The more you conserve, the less money the power company makes. Consumption goes down therefore revenue goes down. Which means rates go up to cover the drop in revenue. This is what happened to Ontario in the 80's when we had the boom and they were building power plants (especially nuclear plants) like there was no tomorrow. Coupled with a highly successful campaign to conserve electricity, costs went up, revenue went down. Then the boom went bust and the rate payers were left holding a monumental debt.
We should have been lighting our homes like we were playing indoor baseball.
David Amos
@Trevor Boone Helm Check the news in Newfoundland lately. Now there is a tale of woe when it comes to power generation and sales
Trevor Boone Helm
"That in turn will encourage consumers to shift demand to underutilized parts of the day, it says."
Right. Like you can wait to cook supper at midnight when the rates are down.
Ask anyone in Ontario about smart meters.They cost twice as much to implement as proposed, they never changed usage patterns to any degree, and may heaven help you if you think the thing isn't calibrated properly. (You have call Measurements Canada who will come and test the meter and that costs $600, payable if it's OK. But you won't know if it's OK unless you get it tested. Sort of a "catch 22".)
David Amos
Content disabled.Then unblocked about an hour later
@Trevor Boone Helm "Right. Like you can wait to cook supper at midnight when the rates are down."
I have been doing that for years but not to save money on a power bill.
David Amos
Content disabled.
@David Amos Interesting that CBC blocked that comment N'esy Pas?
David Amos
@David Amos Oh My Blocked twice in a row
SarahRose Werner
I need to turn more lights on when the sun goes down and there's not as much light coming in through the windows. A "smart meter" is not going to change that.
David Amos
@SarahRose Werner I have the same problem
David Amos
@Dianne MacPherson May I
advise you to stick with your initial impression no matter what they
attach to their not so smart meter to catch fish?
Shawn McShane
NP Power already got into trouble with their insurance companies for "not following expert advice" at Pt. Lepreau. Now they are being "expertly advised" by two separate independent reports to scrap the smart meter program. In other jurisdictions smart meters have caused home fires. How will that effect insurance: GTA homeower liable for damages after smart meter catches fire.
http://toronto.citynews.ca/video/2017/01/12/video-gta-homeowner-liable-for-damage-after-smart-meter-catches-fire/
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/08/08/smart_meters_linked_to_13_fires_in_ontario_fire_marshal_says.html
David Amos
@Shawn McShane "NP Power already got into trouble with their insurance companies for "not following expert advice" at Pt. Lepreau"
SHHH Methinks that lawsuit is still before the court N'esy Pas?
Ross Piercey
I have one of those NB power
dusk to dawn lights it was in the yard when we moved in, they charge me a
flat rate of $20 per month, the power to run it is suppose to be
included, how do they know how much power this light use?, I’ve never
seen any specific amount of power subtracted from my bill for the light,
has anyone else with these lights figured out how the power is
accounted for and deducted from the power bill?
Sean Lebeau
@Ross Piercey Those lights are installed in front of your meter so that you are not chareged for the power they use
Ross Piercey
@Sean Lebeau
Well I guess they didn’t install this one correctly, it runs off the panel from the garage.
Thanks Sean, I will be following up with NB power on that, thanks again.
Well I guess they didn’t install this one correctly, it runs off the panel from the garage.
Thanks Sean, I will be following up with NB power on that, thanks again.
David Amos
@Ross Piercey Heres hoping many other folks read this thread
Thomas Imber
Smart meters were a failure
in Ontario that cost ratepayers dearly, makes sense that Gallant would
want to try it in NB. He seems to copy everything Wynne does in Ontario.
But what did you expect from a no-experience, junior lawyer?
David Amos
@Thomas Imber "But what did you expect from a no-experience, junior lawyer?"
Not much but his puppet masters expect him to follow orders and put the right spin on their malicious nonsense.
Not much but his puppet masters expect him to follow orders and put the right spin on their malicious nonsense.
Mac Isaac
My one and only "want" is that power is there when I want it! PERIOD!!
I don't give a fiddler's damn about "peak" hours or all that other technical gobblygook...just fix the damned system so it's not always going down...ESPECIALLY in the extremes of weather, i.e. extreme cold or extreme heat & humidity...just FIX it!!
David Amos
@Mac Isaac "I don't give a fiddler's damn about "peak" hours or all that other technical gobblygook"
Most folks don't until their power bill goes up.
Mac Isaac
@David Amos You and others
seem perfectly willing to conflate two issues: the increasing costs of
power and the ongoing problems that NBPower has with producing power
without the many, many interruptions throughout the year. One has
nothing to do with the other. I accept, regardless of your snide remark,
that power rates WILL go up, BUT that has nothing to do with
maintaining the power distribution. Unlike some people I have never
wanted "something for nothing", BUT I strongly object to paying for
those many interruptions in every season of the year when other
jurisdictions can, and do, produce power, in often as extreme conditions
as we have here. And so as you don't conflate another issue, I want you
to know that I have the utmost regard for the men and women who try as
hard as they do to maintain our power AND get out to fix the many
problems caused by, in my humble opinion, the grossly overpaid executive
suite at NBPower.
David Amos
@Mac Isaac "One has nothing to do with the other. I accept, regardless of your snide remark, that power rates WILL go up,"
Perhaps you should attend the upcoming hearings and advise NB Power's lawyers on how to argue my testimony?
Perhaps you should attend the upcoming hearings and advise NB Power's lawyers on how to argue my testimony?
Mario Doucet
Why are companies allowed to build windfarms in NB then sell the power in the US? This is wrong, where are the carbon tax promoters on this issue? Why are we being nailed with carbon taxes by Trudeau when this is being allowed?
David Amos
@Mario Doucet Methinks you can answer those questions yourself N'esy Pas?
William Reed
@Mario Doucet
That's the private sector. What don't you understand?
That's the private sector. What don't you understand?
David Amos
@William Reed Better yet what do you know about NB Power writing big fat cheques to the private sector?
Jeff Peel
Pretty sure smart meters aren't Health friendly. Do some research on health and smart meters.
David Amos
@Jeff Peel My friend Roger
Richard certainly has and filed it into evidence for the upcoming
hearing as an Intervener. More importantly he is bringing in an expert
from Montreal to testify at his personal expense for all our benefit.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-eub-hearing-smart-meters-1.4523382
NB Power will participate in an extended EUB hearing Wednesday in Saint John. (Shane Fowler/CBC)
96 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Samuel Porter
Emilen Forest
June Arnott
Kim Mathews
Paul Bourgoin
Fred Brewer
Sean Onuaillain
Anne Bérubé
Evan Day
Roland Godin
SarahRose Werner
Shawn McShane
David Amos
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-eub-hearing-smart-meters-1.4525673
NB Power executives faced tough questions on its smart meters project Wednesday in Saint John. (Robert Jones/CBC NEWS)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-eub-hearing-smart-meters-1.4523382
NB Power's smart meter program among plans under microscope at EUB hearing
A proposal to enact new surcharges to help pay for unexpected events will also be scrutinized
NB
Power makes its annual appearance in front of the Energy and Utilities
Board on Wednesday morning to seek permission to raise electricity rates
in April, but other large issues promise to dominate what is expected
to be an extended 12-day hearing.
A pricey plan to install smart meters provincewide and a proposal to enact new surcharges to help NB Power pay for unexpected events, like storm damage, are likely to be more contentious and time consuming than the utility's request for an average two per cent increase in rates.
"This hearing has resulted in one of the largest volumes of evidence filed before this Board on an NB Power matter," NB Power notes in an opening statement it pre-filed with the utilities board.
"Evidence has moved well beyond the merits of (our) revenue requirement."
NB Power's planned smart meter deployment will be scrutinized at the EUB hearing. (CBC)
Thousands
of pages of evidence have been filed on issues connected to the hearing
since October and some of that has come from experts pushing back
against NB Power's various plans.
More than the rate increase, NB Power`s top priority has become winning approval for a $122.7-million plan to deploy Advanced Metering Infrastructure (AMI), including smart meters, around New Brunswick over the next three years.
The meters, one for each of NB Power`s 350,000 customers, are designed to connect directly to the utility`s computers and will open up opportunities to establish high and low rates during the day to try and steer electricity consumption away from peak hours.
The meters also allow for homeowners to install their own generation, like solar panels, or invest in large battery storage units to load up on low-cost nighttime power and sell what they don't need back to the utility.
NB Power plans to spend $122.7 million to deploy Advanced Metering Infrastructure (AMI). (Ryan Pilon/CBC)
NB
Power said the meters, and an aggressive new package of consumer energy
conservation initiatives, will help flatten out expensive wintertime
consumption peaks on its system and is the key to lowering costs and
avoiding the construction of new power plants.
"NB Power believes AMI and energy smart investments are essential for its customers and should be approved by the board," it said in its opening statement.
"Delay in making these investments, particularly in AMI delays progress in reaching all of the targets for reduction of energy and peak demand."
But at least two outside experts hired to evaluate NB Power's smart meter plan — and who will testify during the hearing — question the economics of the proposal.
That means there will be an intense examination of the smart meter issue in front of the board, according to Public Intervener Heather Black.
"It will be fully debated," said Black. "When there's such a big project at hand, questions come up. Has it been properly planned for are the costs and benefits properly and accurately estimated?"
Also drawing criticism is a proposal to allow NB Power to levy special surcharges when it is hit with unexpected expenses like storm damage — a so-called rate adjustment mechanism.
NB Power has missed profit targets by wide margins in five of the last six years in part because of an unprecedented series of weather events.
The utility estimates it paid $63.8 million to restore power and clean up after ice storms in December 2013, post-tropical storm Arthur in July 2014 and more ice storms in January 2017.
NB Power worker picturing cleaning up after post-tropical storm Arthur. (CBC)
It
is seeking approval for a mechanism to isolate and charge customers
extra for costs caused by "an extraordinary event or circumstance beyond
the control of the company". But opposing experts who worry that could
develop into a blank cheque for the utility are lined up against that
idea as well.
"With increased likelihood that NB Power will be able to recover all costs associated with extraordinary events, there is less pressure on the Company to control those costs," wrote US energy consultant Synapse Energy who was hired by the utilities board to evaluate NB Power's application.
"It will be a focus of the hearing certainly," Black said of the rate adjustment mechanism idea. "I think we'll have a healthy discussion about that."
The hearing begins Wednesday morning in Saint John.
A pricey plan to install smart meters provincewide and a proposal to enact new surcharges to help NB Power pay for unexpected events, like storm damage, are likely to be more contentious and time consuming than the utility's request for an average two per cent increase in rates.
"This hearing has resulted in one of the largest volumes of evidence filed before this Board on an NB Power matter," NB Power notes in an opening statement it pre-filed with the utilities board.
"Evidence has moved well beyond the merits of (our) revenue requirement."
Smart meters
More than the rate increase, NB Power`s top priority has become winning approval for a $122.7-million plan to deploy Advanced Metering Infrastructure (AMI), including smart meters, around New Brunswick over the next three years.
The meters, one for each of NB Power`s 350,000 customers, are designed to connect directly to the utility`s computers and will open up opportunities to establish high and low rates during the day to try and steer electricity consumption away from peak hours.
The meters also allow for homeowners to install their own generation, like solar panels, or invest in large battery storage units to load up on low-cost nighttime power and sell what they don't need back to the utility.
"NB Power believes AMI and energy smart investments are essential for its customers and should be approved by the board," it said in its opening statement.
"Delay in making these investments, particularly in AMI delays progress in reaching all of the targets for reduction of energy and peak demand."
'It will be fully debated'
But at least two outside experts hired to evaluate NB Power's smart meter plan — and who will testify during the hearing — question the economics of the proposal.
With increased likelihood that NB Power will be able to recover all costs associated with extraordinary events, there is less pressure on the Company to control those costs.- US energy consultant Synapse Energy
That means there will be an intense examination of the smart meter issue in front of the board, according to Public Intervener Heather Black.
"It will be fully debated," said Black. "When there's such a big project at hand, questions come up. Has it been properly planned for are the costs and benefits properly and accurately estimated?"
Also drawing criticism is a proposal to allow NB Power to levy special surcharges when it is hit with unexpected expenses like storm damage — a so-called rate adjustment mechanism.
NB Power has missed profit targets by wide margins in five of the last six years in part because of an unprecedented series of weather events.
The utility estimates it paid $63.8 million to restore power and clean up after ice storms in December 2013, post-tropical storm Arthur in July 2014 and more ice storms in January 2017.
"With increased likelihood that NB Power will be able to recover all costs associated with extraordinary events, there is less pressure on the Company to control those costs," wrote US energy consultant Synapse Energy who was hired by the utilities board to evaluate NB Power's application.
"It will be a focus of the hearing certainly," Black said of the rate adjustment mechanism idea. "I think we'll have a healthy discussion about that."
The hearing begins Wednesday morning in Saint John.
96 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Samuel Porter
Those meters are probably
smarter than anyone at NB power, or in the legislature, but the
recommended action by the PAID advisor was NOT to install them. So that
means that they WILL be installed. After all, ATCON6 still runs the
clown factory.
David Amos
@Samuel Porter Methinks that
thou doth jest just enough to make the liberal and the conservatives sit
up and pay attention to this hearing at the NBEUB N'esy Pas?
Samuel Porter
@David Amos I wouldn't bet on any common sense making a surprise appearance. Liberal=ATCON6, after all.
David Amos
@Samuel Porter I was blessed
with common sense and I am sitting at the hearing right now advising two
friends who are intervening in this matter. Everybody knows that NBEUB
allowed me to do even though they barred me for illegal and very
malicious reasons. N'esy Pas?
Samuel Porter
Time to put a surcharge on
the income tax of our elected officials, and the managers of NBpower, to
pay for the damage and cost their stupid decisions, corruption, and
inaction on power line maintenance has caused to NB rate, and tax
payers.
David Amos
@Samuel Porter As the old tune goes "I second the emotion"
Emilen Forest
"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody" - Thomas Paine
David Amos
@Emilen Forest Methinks he was a wise man who believed in common sense even if he was a Yankee rebel N'esy Pas?
Samuel Porter
@David Amos We need to start a few back room clubs around here too.
June Arnott
How about doing away with the huge bonus? No one gets bonus in this era anymore. Or is it just us little people who don’t.
Asking people to pay for storm damage is unethical. Again, get rid of hundreds of thousands of payouts. This is a company not a piggy bank.
Asking people to pay for storm damage is unethical. Again, get rid of hundreds of thousands of payouts. This is a company not a piggy bank.
David Amos
@June Arnott How about ridding ourselves of NB Power's corporate welfare to Billionaires who don't pay much taxes?
Kim Mathews
Didn't they just get an ok to raise rates 2% last year or so
David Amos
@Kim Mathews YUP
Kim Mathews
When I lived in Connecticut
they already had the " high and low rates during the day to try and
steer electricity consumption away from peak hours" and we had the old
fashioned meters not the smart meters ... have them ask the Light and
Power of Connecticut how they did it ...
David Amos
@Kim Mathews NB Power has at
least four overpaid Yankees on our Crown Corp's Board of Directors so
they should not have to leave the boardroom for that answer N'esy Pas?
Brian Robertson
So their plan is to charge us to install meters that will allow them to charge us more.
How could we question a plan like that.
If the EUB is to retain any credibility at all as a public advocate, they will send NB Power back to the drawing board.
How could we question a plan like that.
If the EUB is to retain any credibility at all as a public advocate, they will send NB Power back to the drawing board.
David Amos
@Brian Robertson Dream on. Why do you think the EUB barred me as an Intervenor in this matter after they delayed the 357 matter?
Paul Bourgoin
Will industry also be connected to those New Smart Meters or will they keep using their Bargain Meters?
David Amos
@Paul Bourgoin ROTFLMAO
Fred Brewer
I cannot understand why a
province with only 750,000 people needs a power company that has over
2,000 employees. What is worse is that almost 800 of those employees are
getting a salary in excess of $100,000. If I were on the EUB I would
not give the utility one nickle of an increase until they trimmed the
fat starting with the $500,000 salary of the CEO.
David Amos
@Fred Brewer" What is worse is that almost 800 of those employees are getting a salary in excess of $100,000"
Most folks don't know about those facts. However methinks when they do find out the government in power at the time will lose the new election . N'esy Pas?
Most folks don't know about those facts. However methinks when they do find out the government in power at the time will lose the new election . N'esy Pas?
Sean Onuaillain
I have a trailer that I go to
once or twice a month in winter. I turn the heat on when I am there. My
electric bill in winter months is usually around $80. The last bill was
$150. So yep something is definitely going on.
Douglas James
@Sean Onuaillain Its called cold temperatures.
David Amos
@Douglas James Perhaps
However it depends on how much faith you have in the integrity of NB
Power. Correct? After what I just witnessed a the hearing today and Nb
Power's attack on my friend Roger Richard I certainly never will.
Anne Bérubé
Judging by the comments, the
ones who agree with NB Power are either present or retired NB Power
employees, and good liberals. Nothing has to be added to this.
David Amos
@Anne Bérubé That is the last thing I am Perhaps you should Google me
Evan Day
Yes, so NB Power can safely
stop trimming trees and looking for ways to avoid weather-related
damage, secure in the knowledge that rate-payers will foot the bill
after the fact. Sounds like a great idea.
David Amos
@Evan Day I know you are
joking about a fairly sorry state of our affairs. Methinks we should
send out all the fat cat executives to trim trees and work off a few
pounds as well. They could consider the exercise as bonus in working for
NB Power N'esy Pas?
Roland Godin
Either way the real cost, all debt and upkeep, sighed by you et moi is at least 0.20$ per kw...et voilà
David Amos
@Roland Godin You lost me again Mr Godin
Roland Godin
@David Amos
Voting, even with a check mark, is a blank ckeck for the politicians to deplete your financial account as they wish and your guaranteed endorsement of whatever they borrow...et voilà.
Voting, even with a check mark, is a blank ckeck for the politicians to deplete your financial account as they wish and your guaranteed endorsement of whatever they borrow...et voilà.
David Amos
@Roland Godin I also ran for public office five times Do you think I would have done that?
SarahRose Werner
Most people's electricity
usage is determined by: (1) the hours of daylight; and (2) their work
schedules. If you need to get up before sunrise in order to arrive at
work on time, then you need to turn the lights on - and probably the
coffee maker as well! You need to cook supper when you get home and
turn the lights on after sundown. Claiming that customers can save
money by avoiding "peak usage hours" is a bunch of malarkey. The new
meters will do nothing but cost customers more money.
David Amos
@SarahRose Werner My thinking exactly
Arnold Besier
Maine's smart meter system
failed badly after a windstorm knocked out power to more than 500,000
customers last October. Barry Hobbins, head of the Maine Office of the
Public Advocate and a former chairman of the Energy, Utilities and
Technology Committee, said the “smart meters” turned out to be
“extremely dumb” when it came to the power outage. Hobbins said the breakdown of the smart meter system, combined with
CMP’s other communications challenges, should serve as a lesson for
reporting and tracking power outages in the future.
David Amos
@Arnold Besier "Maine Office
of the Public Advocate and a former chairman of the Energy, Utilities
and Technology Committee, said the “smart meters” turned out to be
“extremely dumb”
Thanks for the info I am asking that Roger Richard mention that article to NB Power in the hearing day in a few Minutes
Thanks for the info I am asking that Roger Richard mention that article to NB Power in the hearing day in a few Minutes
Arnold Besier
@David Amos
You're welcome, David. There's extensive coverage of hearings currently going on in the Portland Press Herald. https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/06/lawmakers-hear-criticism-of-utilities-storm-response/
You're welcome, David. There's extensive coverage of hearings currently going on in the Portland Press Herald. https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/06/lawmakers-hear-criticism-of-utilities-storm-response/
David Amos
@Arnold Besier I read it before I told Roger about it Looks like he will not get to ask the CFO Mr Murphy et al until tomorrow
David Amos
@Arnold Besier BTW Ms Clarke
of NB Power just sung the praises of Smart Meters notifying the Power
Company when folks lose their power. YEA RIGHT Apparently she did not
think some folks read the news you informed me off today.
Arnold Besier
@David Amos
Apparently, the system crashed when utility poles went down during the storm, it wasn’t just power lines that got taken out — so did the radio transmitters for the smart-grid “mesh” that were installed at the top of the poles.The Bangor Daily News had a report back in December https://bangordailynews.com/2017/12/08/news/state/october-storm-took-out-cmps-200-million-smart-meter-network/
Apparently, the system crashed when utility poles went down during the storm, it wasn’t just power lines that got taken out — so did the radio transmitters for the smart-grid “mesh” that were installed at the top of the poles.The Bangor Daily News had a report back in December https://bangordailynews.com/2017/12/08/news/state/october-storm-took-out-cmps-200-million-smart-meter-network/
Shawn McShane
NB Power protest encore?
David Amos
@Shawn McShane Why not?
Shawn McShane
Fredericton, NB, July 25,
2012: Siemens Canada and NB Power sign multi-year agreement to develop
comprehensive Smart Grid program for the province. This was under the
PC government du jour.
Will the meters by any chance be Siemens meters?
Quit voting for the same two parties.
Will the meters by any chance be Siemens meters?
Quit voting for the same two parties.
David Amos
@Shawn McShane Don't vote for any party Vote Independent
michael levesque
something needs to be done about the leadership of this parasite to the taxpayers.
David Amos
@michael levesque I agree and
they know I mean it particularly after I spoke at NB Power's Public
Session this evening. FYI The Transcript should be available from the
NBEUB website tomorrow.
Paul Bourgoin
Is there the possibility that energy cost in New Brunswick is negotiable, depending on who are the negotiators?
David Amos
@Paul Bourgoin Ask the Irving Clan
Roger Williams
How can I support, or oppose
smart meters without knowing the entire plan. What will be the peak
times in summer and winter, and what will those rates be? The idea of
surcharges for extraordinary events is ludicrous. I would say just the
opposite, to give NB Power the incentive to maintain the system. That
would be to compensate customers every time that power is lost, say for
more than four hours. Past that, compensation could be based on the average hourly consumption
rate for the hours from the last three years. The current rate is
$.1081, if the house used 48 Kw hrs a day over the last three years on
those dates, then compensation would be $.2162 per hour.
David Amos
@Roger Williams" How can I support, or oppose smart meters without knowing the entire plan."
That why I intervened in th e matter and that why the EUB blocked me from asking questions in two matters thus far Methinks its time to put their malice before a real court N'esy Pas?
That why I intervened in th e matter and that why the EUB blocked me from asking questions in two matters thus far Methinks its time to put their malice before a real court N'esy Pas?
Dwight Mullover
This province will never
prosper until the cost to live here improves. I spent my entire years
worth of heat when I live in Niagara in just two months here because
there is no cheap source of heat. That's roughly $600 that has been
lost to the economy just for heat, and we are just one home. Food
costs, taxes, MVI, registration etc are all draining people
discretionary income here.
I have done everything I can do to my home to make it energy efficient, and my cost for heat continues to increase; $611 for December; last year $500.33, and $524 for January; last year $477.56. Why does NB Power need to increase rate every single year; too many over paid employees is my guess.
My yearly heat cost for natural gas in Ontario was between $450 - $900 a year. in the 10 years I lived there.
I have done everything I can do to my home to make it energy efficient, and my cost for heat continues to increase; $611 for December; last year $500.33, and $524 for January; last year $477.56. Why does NB Power need to increase rate every single year; too many over paid employees is my guess.
My yearly heat cost for natural gas in Ontario was between $450 - $900 a year. in the 10 years I lived there.
David Amos
@Dwight Mullover I blame
their KPMG auditors whose work allow NB Power to claim it needs money to
meet the 20 percent equity mandate demanded by the Conservatives in
their Electricity Act of 2013 which the liberals support for some
strange reason I will never understand.
SarahRose Werner
"The meters also allow for
homeowners to install their own generation, like solar panels, or invest
in large battery storage units to load up on low-cost nighttime power
and sell what they don't need back to the utility." But they will do
absolutely *nothing* to help tenants who pay their own hydro bills.
Tenants will simply be stuck paying higher costs with no way to do
anything about it.
David Amos
@SarahRose Werner FYI When my
friend Gerald Bourque asked Ms Clarke of NB Power during the hearing
today if it would allow homeowners to opt out of their smart meter plan,
she claimed that it would. However I didn't believe her.
Willie Smith
It used to be the poor and
the fixed incomes(seniors) that was feeling the ill effects of the tax
increases, food, heating costs, fuel costs, etc... Now the Middle class
is doing a lot of crying lately.. When is these groups going to stop
voting for the Fibs and the Cons.. It very well could be to late
considering we are bankrupt however better now than later I suppose. Ya
get what ya deserve.. Just a matter of time before amalgamation...
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Willie Smith Middle class
versus the poor??? Methinks the biggest corporate welfare bums who
always crying hard times is the Billionaire Irving Clan N'esy Pas?
Did you ever check to see how much money the Irvings get from NB Power byway of the Large Industrial Renewable Energy Purchase Program? Here is some old news about the issue that NB Power refused to answer Gerald Bourque's question about it today.
NB Power first full rate hearing gets questions about big paper mills
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-first-full-rate-hearing-gets-questions-about-big-paper-mills-1.3114844
Did you ever check to see how much money the Irvings get from NB Power byway of the Large Industrial Renewable Energy Purchase Program? Here is some old news about the issue that NB Power refused to answer Gerald Bourque's question about it today.
NB Power first full rate hearing gets questions about big paper mills
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-first-full-rate-hearing-gets-questions-about-big-paper-mills-1.3114844
David Amos
@David Amos Why on earth would CBC block a link to their own news article?
David Amos
With regard to Smart Meters I
hope the not so wiseguys in the NBEUB and the CBC pay attention the
the Heath and Safety issues that will be raised along with the fact that
NB Power does not have a mandate to buy the questionable meter and use
them because they canceled The 357 Matter last fall.
EUB punts rate hearing as NB Power studies $122M smart meter plan
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/eub-hearing-nb-power-rate-design-smart-meters-1.4305685
EUB punts rate hearing as NB Power studies $122M smart meter plan
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/eub-hearing-nb-power-rate-design-smart-meters-1.4305685
Bernard Cormier
Why is there so many people complaining? We live in Canada and we have winters.
@Bernard Cormier Methinks we have corrupt politicians and Crown Corps as well N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Methinks if Robert Jones of
CBC is serious about what he just said on the CBC airwaves then he will
pay close attention to the expert my friend Roger Richard is bringing
down from Montreal at his personal expense N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Did I mention that I love a circus?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-eub-hearing-smart-meters-1.4525673
NB Power's smart meter plan labelled a 'money loser' during EUB grilling
The utility estimated the total savings would fall short of the $122.7M price tag
A
trio of NB Power executives were under pressure Wednesday to justify
why the utility wants to invest more than $100 million to install smart
meters with customers when its own accounting shows savings from the
change will be less than the cost to implement it.
"Those projected costs are $122.7 million and the projected benefits are $121.4 million. Is that correct?" asked Christopher Stewart, a lawyer for J.D. Irving Ltd. during the opening day of NB Power's annual rate hearing.
"Yes. That's the life cycle costs of the project and the life cycle benefits of the project," responded NB Power senior vice president of operations Lori Clark.
"That's negative $1.3 million," observed Stewart. "It's a money loser."
Clark, along with two other NB Power senior vice presidents, Keith Cronkhite and Darren Murphy, fielded initial questions about the utility's smart meter plans in front of the Energy and Utilities Board as part of a 12-day review of a number of issues.
Lori Clark, NB Power's vice president of operations, fielded questions about the cost and benefits of the smart meters plan. (Robert Jones/CBC NEWS)
The
board has the power to approve or reject NB Power projects that cost
more than $50 million, including the smart meter project.
The three vice presidents argued that smart meters are needed as a foundation for NB Power to implement a number of other modernization plans and suggested total financial benefits will likely be greater than the analysis it prepared for the hearing seemed to show.
The meters will connect directly to the utility's computers and track consumption in real time. That will open up opportunities to establish high and low rates during the day to try and steer electricity consumption to off-peak hours.
The meters also allow for homeowners to install their own generation, like solar panels, or invest in large battery storage units to load up on low-cost nighttime power and sell what they don't need back to the utility.
Smart meters became the focus on the first day of the annual rate hearing. (Ryan Pilon/CBC)
NB
Power said the meters, and an aggressive new package of consumer energy
conservation initiatives, will help it soften expensive wintertime
consumption peaks on its system and is the key to lowering costs and
avoiding the construction of new power plants — advantages it did not
fully detail in its proposal.
"We did not take into account all of the potential upside benefits. We were very conservative in the calculation of our benefits," said Clark. "There are a number of projects that are enabled by our Advanced Metering Infrastructure that haven't been identified in the business case."
Stewart responded: "You say you've taken a conservative approach but its the approach you've chosen to bring forward."
Christopher Stewart, a lawyer for J.D. Irving Ltd., described the smart meter plan as a "money loser." (Robert Jones/CBC NEWS)
Clark said the multiple recent complaints the utility has received from people surprised by the size of their January power bills show the value of smart meter.
But she assured Gerald Bourque, leader of New Brunswick's fledgling KISS N.B. Political Party and a hearing participant, that no one who objects to the device will be made to take one.
"When we are dealing with high bill complaints like we have been this last month, customers would actually be able to see their usage throughout the month and not be subject to receiving a final bill at the end of the month and being surprised by their consumption," she said.
"We will have an opt out policy."
Whether the meters pay for themselves or not, it is important the board not judge the proposal to buy them on that issue alone, Murphy said.
"It's more than just economics," he said. "It's about preparing for that future and modernizing the infrastructure."
"Those projected costs are $122.7 million and the projected benefits are $121.4 million. Is that correct?" asked Christopher Stewart, a lawyer for J.D. Irving Ltd. during the opening day of NB Power's annual rate hearing.
"Yes. That's the life cycle costs of the project and the life cycle benefits of the project," responded NB Power senior vice president of operations Lori Clark.
"That's negative $1.3 million," observed Stewart. "It's a money loser."
Clark, along with two other NB Power senior vice presidents, Keith Cronkhite and Darren Murphy, fielded initial questions about the utility's smart meter plans in front of the Energy and Utilities Board as part of a 12-day review of a number of issues.
Greater benefits expected
The three vice presidents argued that smart meters are needed as a foundation for NB Power to implement a number of other modernization plans and suggested total financial benefits will likely be greater than the analysis it prepared for the hearing seemed to show.
The meters will connect directly to the utility's computers and track consumption in real time. That will open up opportunities to establish high and low rates during the day to try and steer electricity consumption to off-peak hours.
The meters also allow for homeowners to install their own generation, like solar panels, or invest in large battery storage units to load up on low-cost nighttime power and sell what they don't need back to the utility.
"We did not take into account all of the potential upside benefits. We were very conservative in the calculation of our benefits," said Clark. "There are a number of projects that are enabled by our Advanced Metering Infrastructure that haven't been identified in the business case."
Stewart responded: "You say you've taken a conservative approach but its the approach you've chosen to bring forward."
Recent complaints
Clark said the multiple recent complaints the utility has received from people surprised by the size of their January power bills show the value of smart meter.
But she assured Gerald Bourque, leader of New Brunswick's fledgling KISS N.B. Political Party and a hearing participant, that no one who objects to the device will be made to take one.
"When we are dealing with high bill complaints like we have been this last month, customers would actually be able to see their usage throughout the month and not be subject to receiving a final bill at the end of the month and being surprised by their consumption," she said.
"We will have an opt out policy."
Whether the meters pay for themselves or not, it is important the board not judge the proposal to buy them on that issue alone, Murphy said.
"It's more than just economics," he said. "It's about preparing for that future and modernizing the infrastructure."
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