David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
Methinks if Higgy loses the confidence vote next week he and Mikey Holland will be too late to stop the Smart Meter nonsense and appear even remotely ethical N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/11/can-nb-power-deploy-smart-meters-within.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
---------- Original message ----------
From: "Carr, Jeff Hon. (ELG/EGL)" <Jeff.Carr@gnb.ca>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 20:32:30 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Methinks if Higgy loses the confidence vote
next week he and Mikey Holland will be too late to stop the Smart
Meter nonsense and appear even remotely ethical N'esy Pas?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Thank you for your email. Your thoughts, comments and input are greatly valued.
You can be assured that all emails and letters are carefully read,
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There may be occasions when, given the issues you have raised and the
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response may take several business days.
If your request is Constituency related, please contact Rose Ann at my
Constituency office in Fredericton Junction at RoseAnn.Smith@gnb.ca or
by phone at 506-368-2938.
Thanks again for your email.
______
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Merci encore pour votre courriel.
---------- Original message ----------
From: "MinFinance / FinanceMin (FIN)" <fin.minfinance-financemin.
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 20:32:58 +0000
Subject: RE: Methinks if Higgy loses the confidence vote next week he
and Mikey Holland will be too late to stop the Smart Meter nonsense
and appear even remotely ethical N'esy Pas?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
The Department of Finance acknowledges receipt of your electronic
correspondence. Please be assured that we appreciate receiving your
comments.
Le ministère des Finances accuse réception de votre correspondance
électronique. Soyez assuré(e) que nous apprécions recevoir vos
commentaires.
---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 16:32:27 -0400
Subject: Methinks if Higgy loses the confidence vote next week he and
Mikey Holland will be too late to stop the Smart Meter nonsense and
appear even remotely ethical N'esy Pas?
To: premier@gnb.ca, brian.gallant@gnb.ca, greg.byrne@gnb.ca,
Jack.Keir@gnb.ca, jeff.carr@gnb.ca, benoit.bourque@gnb.ca,
Dominic.Cardy@gnb.ca, Hamish.Wright@gnb.ca, blaine.higgs@gnb.ca,
roger.l.melanson@gnb.ca, hugh.flemming@gnb.ca, Bill.Morneau@canada.ca,
Ginette.PetitpasTaylor@parl.
pm@pm.gc.ca, Gerald.Butts@pmo-cpm.gc.ca, jake.stewart@gnb.ca,
bruce.northrup@gnb.ca, oldmaison@yahoo.com, David.Coon@gnb.ca,
megan.mitton@gnb.ca, andre@jafaust.com, martin.gaudet@fredericton.ca,
Jacques.Poitras@cbc.ca, Connell.Smith@cbc.ca, mike.holland@gnb.ca,
kris.austin@gnb.ca, rick.desaulniers@gnb.ca, michelle.conroy@gnb.ca,
tyler.campbell@gnb.ca, nick.brown@gnb.ca, Tim.RICHARDSON@gnb.ca,
carl.urquhart@gnb.ca, Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca, barb.whitenect@gnb.ca,
Gilles.Cote@gnb.ca, Mark.Blakely@rcmp-grc.gc.ca,
serge.rousselle@gnb.ca, robert.gauvin@gnb.ca,
sturgeon.nathalie@
bruce.fitch@gnb.ca, Bill.Oliver@gnb.ca, Ross.Wetmore@gnb.ca,
pablo.rodriguez@parl.gc.ca, Chuck.Thompson@cbc.ca,
votejohnw@gmail.com, Wayne.Long@parl.gc.ca
Cc: motomaniac333@gmail.com, robmoorefundy@gmail.com,
robert.mckee@gnb.ca, Kevin.Vickers@gnb.ca, Brenda.Lucki@rcmp-grc.gc.ca
It was small wonder to me that Mr Jones and his boss Darrow MacIntyre
did not allow a comment section to open this time
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
Can NB Power deploy smart meters within its proposed budget?
Utility is facing questions after big cost overruns on eight previous capital projects
· CBC News · Posted: Nov 15, 2019 6:30 AM AT
Heather Black is New Brunswick's public intervenor and is one of a number of parties who have been questioning NB Power's recalculated benefits of adopting smart meters. (CBC)
Several major capital projects undertaken by NB Power in the last three years that went millions of dollars over budget, including maintenance shutdowns at various power plants and an undersea transmission line in the Bay of Fundy, are raising questions about the utility's ability to keep a major smart meter deployment on track — if the $92 million project is approved.
NB Power is facing a second hearing before the Energy and Utilities Board (EUB) in January as it seeks permission to install so-called Advanced Metering Infrastructure (AMI). The plan hinges on the installation of 360,000 smart meters with NB Power's entire residential and commercial customer base.
Hundreds of pages of evidence to be considered in the application have already been filed with the EUB and are on the public record for review.
Among that evidence are dozens of written questions about AMI submitted to NB Power that were answered earlier this week. One of those, by New Brunswick public intervenor Heather Black asked the utility directly about its track record with capital budgets and why it has only included a provision for cost overruns of two per cent on the majority of proposed AMI costs.
Cost overruns total $35.5 million
Maintenance outages at Point Lepreau, which are planned months and sometimes years in advance, went over budget in both 2018 and 2019 by a combined $12.2 million or 17.6 per cent. (CBC)
Last month, in response to a separate round of questioning,
NB Power acknowledged that eight significant capital projects it has
completed since 2017 — originally projected to cost $188.9
million — finished over budget by a combined $35.5 million (18.8 per
cent).
"Maintenance outages, although well planned, often result in unforeseen emergent work. When a plant is shut down and equipment is dismantled, other issues may arise or other repairs need to be made that were not planned."
The other capital projects that went over budget were all related to transmission infrastructure, including 17.5 kilometers of new submarine power lines to Campobello and Grand Manan Islands. Those cost $44.4 million over two years to acquire and install, $7.2 million more than expected.
Intense scrutiny of plan
The Maersk Connector laid down two new undersea power lines this summer to feed electricity to Campobello and Grand Manan Islands. The project cost $44.4 million, $7.2 million over budget. (Brian Chisholm/CBC)
Advanced Metering Infrastructure refers to a collection of
physical and digital upgrades to the electrical grid, including the
installation of smart meters that will allow NB Power to collect
individual consumption data from customers electronically in real time
instead of once a month by a meter reader.
NB Power's first application to adopt AMI was rejected by the EUB last year for being uneconomical after the utility presented evidence showing costs outweighed benefits over a 15-year period by $1.3 million.
This time, the utility has reworked the figures and claims benefits of the project will be $31.1 million, or 28.4 per cent, greater than costs over the same 15 year period — a change that is generating intense scrutiny among those scheduled to participate in the January hearing.
A scheduled maintenance shutdown at NB Power's Belledune coal fired generating station in 2017 went $2.8 million or 13.5 per cent over budget. This year the utility did the work for $300,000 less than projected - a point it made in defence of its ability to properly plan and execute a major assignment. (CBC)
NB Power acknowledges it has allowed
for only two per cent cost overruns on just over half of the project
expenses but argues that is on equipment for which fixed-cost contracts
have already been negotiated.
Other "variable" capital costs have a 10 per cent cost overrun cushion built into the estimate with one riskier element budgeted with a 26.5 percent contingency, the utility noted.
"This was added because the contract has not yet been executed and there is a possibility of scope changes during negotiations," it said.
NB Power also noted that a number of capital projects it has undertaken since 2017 have come in under budget, including the most recent maintenance shutdown at Belledune.
https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
Methinks folks should not forget the PUBLIC EUB hearing about the 100 million dollar Not So Smart Meters is due to begin in January N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/11/can-nb-power-deploy-smart-meters-within.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/untold-story-joi-scientific-nb-power-1.5359262
Ode to Joi: The untold story of NB Power's deal with a Florida hydrogen startup
How flattery, connections and looming carbon costs led to a $13M partnership
· CBC News · Posted: Nov 17, 2019 7:00 PM AT
NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas posed with Joi Scientific executives Robert Koeneman and Traver Kennedy on a beach in Cape Canaveral, Fla. The utility has a multimillion-dollar licensing agreement with Joi Scientific. (Joi Scientific)
In the early days of their courtship, NB Power and Joi Scientific lavished compliments on each other.
"This could be a worldwide game changer," NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas enthused in a July 4, 2016, email after his first visit to Joi's offices at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
Gary Chaikin, Joi's Canadian sales representative and the first official from the Florida startup to make contact with Thomas, responded with an equally fulsome ode.
"What you and NB Power are doing is visionary and will undoubtedly put NB Power on the global list of the most innovative places," Chaikin told Thomas in a July 22 email.
Thomas and NB Power board chair Ed Barrett, left, said there was plenty of scrutiny by NB Power's directors. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
The exchange is contained in hundreds of pages of documents obtained by CBC News through a right-to-information request.
Those documents show not everyone was as smitten by Joi's vow to convert seawater to hydrogen power at an industrial, and profitable, scale.
Mike Sellman, a U.S. nuclear power specialist on NB Power's board of directors, said Joi appeared to be claiming it could break one of the fundamental laws of science.
There was scepticism, obviously, on everyone's part. When someone tells you they've got the holy grail, you step back.
- Norm Betts, former NB Power vice- cha
"You can't get more energy out than you put in," he wrote in an email exchange with senior NB Power staff. "This flies into the face of what Joi Scientific seems to be saying."
"I am very much of the same mind," replied Dean Taylor, a senior nuclear official at NB Power, calling one of the Joi claims "dubious."
But two months later, Taylor wrote he had "stumbled across" data in an academic paper that convinced him Joi's claims were "in line" with the study.
NB Power signed a licensing agreement with Joi that fall and transferred $5 million US, or about $6.7 million Cdn, to the company. That fee granted the Crown corporation the right to eventually use, resell and profit from Joi's hydrogen technology.
'Delays and technical challenges'
Now that agreement and Joi's science are facing increased scrutiny after CBC News revealed that shareholders were told this summer the technology has not worked as advertised.
Joi acknowledged problems for the first time Friday in an email to CBC News.
NB Power signed a licensing agreement with Joi that transferred $5 million US, or about $6.7 million Cdn, to the company. (Michael Heenan/CBC)
"While we have encountered delays and technical challenges, we are working through these issues with our partners," said Joi's marketing vice-president Vicky Harris.
She said Joi is "as committed as ever to continuing our work on our seawater-based hydrogen technology" and is confident the company is "on the right path to create a new, cost-effective, and clean energy source in the form of green hydrogen."
'He knew somebody that knew somebody'
There are two stories about how Joi Scientific first connected with NB Power. MLAs on the select committee on Crown corporations heard both versions at a hearing Nov. 1.
In one, it was the utility's reputation that caught Joi's eye. Thomas told MLAs that NB Power was punching above its weight, chosen as one of the top 20 innovative power companies in North America and sending its CEO to speak at a big conference in San Francisco.
"They came to us," he said. "They saw how innovative we were."
The Joi-NB Power deal was meant to address the future of Belledune's generating station, the utility's last coal-burning plant. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
The second version is a more human, old-fashioned, classically New Brunswick tale.
Norm Betts, a member of NB Power's board of directors, "knew somebody that knew somebody that knew somebody, apparently," according to board chair Ed Barrett, and suggested Thomas "take a look" at Joi.
Betts, a business professor and former provincial finance minister, confirmed in an interview he'd been on the board of a retail technology company with a Toronto businessman who was also "the person responsible for Joi in Canada."
He would not say if that was Chaikin, the company's Canadian sales representative.
'The holy grail'
There was another connection: Zack Pate, a pioneer in the nuclear power industry, was on Joi's advisory board. Pate had done work with NB Power in the sixties, Betts said, and had even bought an iconic Chestnut canoe to take home with him.
"Gaëtan said, 'If Zack Pate is involved, this must be something,'" Betts recalled. Chaikin arranged for Pate to call Thomas early in the discussions.
"There was scepticism, obviously, on everyone's part," Betts said. "When someone tells you they've got the holy grail, you step back."
'Strong minds'
Betts argues that Barrett's version of the initial contact doesn't contradict Thomas's account, in which Joi noticed NB Power's willingness to try new things.
"They obviously know about NB Power," he said. "It's a pretty small world and they follow each other."
Betts said he decided to recuse himself from future NB Power board discussions about the partnership because of his connection to Joi's Canadian representative, even though Betts had no investment in Joi and was never paid by the company.
Betts was confident other board members could verify Joi's claims.
"There's some pretty strong minds there," he said. "I assume they did their homework."
The Belledune dilemma
Looming over NB Power's discussions with Joi, as it looms over all of the Crown corporation's plans, was the future of its Belledune generating station, its last coal-burning plant.
A draft cabinet document from 2016 even referred to the Joi proposal as the "Belledune Hydrogen Project."
After Joi and NB Power agreed on talking points, this is how Thomas responded.
The plant between Bathurst and Dalhousie employs more than 100 people and provides 20 per cent of the electricity NB Power sells within the province.
But under the Trudeau government's national climate plan, it must stop burning coal in 2030.
Technology doesn't yet exist to replace its electricity with wind and solar power, which are unreliable and can't be stored.
'The play'
Ottawa has also imposed a carbon tax on New Brunswick and other provinces without their own carbon pricing. In 2016, NB Power estimated it was facing costs of $1.5 billion, translating to an additional eight per cent increase on power bills.
But Thomas estimated that converting Belledune to hydrogen would allow NB Power to run the plant until 2043, "preserving the associated jobs and regional economic benefits" while also reducing emissions.
At the time, "the play was [$1.5 billion] hanging over our head versus a $12 million investment," Thomas told the committee.
"That's what the play was. And the potential was, yeah, probably 50-50 at the time. But most of these innovations are like that."
Former energy minister Rick Doucet said in December 2017 that the then-government wanted to move in a new direction. (CBC)
In August 2016, Joi and NB Power agreed on talking points that called the company's hydrogen technology "the perfect expression" of Canada's plan to reduce emissions and meet its Paris climate agreement targets.
"WOW!!! Very well done!" Thomas said when Joi sent him a final version of the document.
'The big kicker'
Former Liberal cabinet minister Donald Arseneault said in an interview that another tempting aspect of the Joi deal for Thomas and NB Power was the potential profit-sharing if the technology worked and was purchased by other utilities.
"That was the big kicker," Arseneault said.
Thomas alluded to that before the committee on Crown corporations.
"Whoever cracks the nut on this, it's a trillion-dollar industry, the hydrogen economy. So, it's a high risk, but there were some high rewards for NB Power."
Arseneault was the minister for the Regional Development Corporation when NB Power came looking for an initial $5 million US. "We knew what the risk was," he said, but "you hope you can trust the whole organization of NB Power."
Other Belledune options
The province had another option for Belledune. Nova Scotia signed an "equivalency agreement" with Ottawa to keep burning coal past 2030 in return for reducing the same amount of emissions elsewhere.
But Brian Gallant's Liberal government opted against that, preferring to seek a new technology — biomass, natural gas, or hydrogen — to replace coal at the plant.
"We want to move in a new direction, something that's very innovative, and we've got great opportunities right on our doorstep here," then-energy minister Rick Doucet said in December 2017.
Tom MacFarlane, the current deputy minister in the Energy Department, told MLAs that staff lacked the scientific skills to provide advice about the NB Power-Joi pitch. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
An NB Power briefing note to Doucet claimed Joi's process was "consistently repeatable" and its methodology was "reasonable and justifiable." Test results "exceeded 100%" return on energy, "consistent with the claims made by Joi Scientific."
The note also said a senior nuclear physicist at NB Power "has gained sufficient knowledge to understand the system's operation at a basic level and has confidence that the technology could be readily transferred to NB Power."
Lack of expertise
The current deputy minister in the Energy Department, Tom MacFarlane, told a committee of MLAs on Nov. 7 that staff there lacked the scientific skills to advise Doucet and the Regional Development Corporation about the NB Power-Joi pitch.
"We wouldn't have had expertise and didn't have any expertise in that area," MacFarlane said. "We weren't in a position to offer much advice to government in terms of whether this technology was viable, not viable."
Nor was the Jobs Board, a committee of cabinet ministers supported by a three-person secretariat of staffers. NB Power prepared a PowerPoint that said "energy output exceeds input" in Joi's technology, but no one at the board had the background to verify that.
Keith Cronkhite, NB Power's vice-president of business development, said the Nebraska proposal reminded him of Atlantic Hydrogen, a Fredericton company that received $4.7 million from New Brunswick taxpayers before going bankrupt in 2015. (Robert Jones/CBC)
"I was not asked to provide input into R&D-related files as I have no expertise in this area," said David Campbell, who held the title of chief economist at the secretariat.
"My assumption is that Gaëtan and his team must have vetted the firm and the concept before requesting funds from government."
'All the right questions'
At the committee hearing Nov. 1, Thomas and Barrett said there was plenty of scrutiny by NB Power's directors, which include veterans of the nuclear industry and other power utilities.
They "know this industry inside out" and were "asking all the right questions," Barrett said. "I'm quite confident that the board and the governance piece of this has been handled quite correctly."
Thomas said they were "subjected to a lot of questions from cabinet ministers" when they presented there, though confidentiality rules prevented him from saying more.
He also told the committee that he couldn't identify who did third-party verifications, also because of confidentiality requirements.
"We did the due diligence. We had independent validation and measurements. But there were parts that could not be measured. Some assumptions had been made."
'An operator'
Thomas is an electrical engineer who has spent his entire career with NB Power. He plans to retire next spring.
Betts calls him "an operator" in the positive, technical sense of the word. "His fundamental concern is keeping the lights on." Belledune represented a challenge, Betts explained, and "he would look at this from an operational, solve-the-problem point of view."
The Political Panel from CBC News New Brunswick
Nov. 7: What oversight was there in the Joi Scientific venture?
46:53
NB Power has invested millions into Florida-based Joi Scientific's hydrogen technology. There are now questions about whether the technology will work. What oversight and accountability is there when governments are making these investments? Progressive Conservative Energy Minister Mike Holland, Green Party Leader David Coon and People's Alliance MLA Rick DeSaulniers joined the Political Panel to discuss the issue. 46:53
To add another layer of oversight, Thomas took a seat on Joi's board of directors. While he gets no pay and owns no stake in the Florida company, the position gives NB Power "some insight into the development of the technology," Barrett said.
"It's good governance. … We have a keen interest in making sure the technology works and that we follow the advancement of the technology."
'A call to action'
Emails obtained by CBC News also show Thomas's enthusiasm for big ideas and grand visions. At least twice, he shared articles about new energy concepts, referring to one as "a call to action."
Another article, about a proposed hydrogen power plant in Nebraska, prompted a cautionary reply from Keith Cronkhite, NB Power's vice-president of business development.
The Nebraska proposal reminded Cronkhite of Atlantic Hydrogen, a Fredericton company that received $4.7 million from New Brunswick taxpayers before going bankrupt in 2015.
To MLAs, Thomas portrayed himself as someone willing to override the doubts of some of his own staff.
In 2018, Mike Holland, minister of natural resources and energy development, was sent a briefing note about the upcoming NB Power and Joi deal before it was officially announced. (Radio-Canada)
He said he faced scepticism from NB Power engineers about $6 million worth of new technology that allowed the company to avoid a $400 million upgrade to transmission lines to Nova Scotia.
The decision is saving NB Power $14 million per year by allowing it run the Coleson Cove plant less often, but if he'd listened to the sceptics, that never would have happened, he said.
"When you look at the overall portfolio, I think on innovation, we're doing generally well. "On this one, time will tell."
But Thomas also acknowledged to MLAs that he may have been too enthusiastic on Joi.
"We're not saying there's guaranteed results," he said. "I probably made a mistake. I was probably overly optimistic earlier in the thing, but we're still very cautiously optimistic that it can go. … We believe we did the right thing. We certainly had the right intentions."
A slice of federal green dollars
NB Power's hydrogen hopes were also premised on a belief Ottawa would subsidize Belledune's shift away from coal.
The Trudeau government planned to allocate $673 million in infrastructure funding to New Brunswick, including for "green economy" projects. Arseneault, whose riding was near Belledune, wanted some of it for the plant there.
With half of the $10 million US licensing fee from the province through the Regional Development Corporation, NB Power asked the federal government for the other half, a request co-ordinated by the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.
"It didn't materialize," Thomas said of the federal funding. "They did not match the province's commitment. … They never came to the table."
Nor did Ottawa ever complete its own due diligence into Joi.
"We didn't get there," Thomas said. An ACOA spokesperson refused to discuss the application.
NB Power antes up
With Ottawa out, NB Power needed to find the second $5 million elsewhere. Thomas asked the board to approve paying it out of the utility's own research and development budget.
"We had to make our commitment or walk away, so we decided to continue," he said.
During the Nov. 1 committee appearance, Green Party Leader David Coon questioned whether that was allowed under the Electricity Act, which gives NB Power its mandate.
Thomas responded that nothing in the law prohibited it, either.
"You did not find in the act where we couldn't do this," he said, "because if you did, you would have pointed it out instead of grandstanding."
'Broad power'
Peter Hyslop, a former public intervener at the Energy and Utilities Board and a frequent critic of NB Power management, said Thomas has a point.
"There's nothing in the act that says 'don't do anything,'" he said. NB Power "is supposed to administer the electricity system, and I'd be willing to say they'd have the broad power to look at projects that would enhance the electricity system.
"I'll leave it to others to say whether they made the right decision or not."
The deal goes quiet
At a news conference in December 2017, Thomas talked for the first time about seawater-to-hydrogen at Belledune but didn't name NB Power's partner.
CBC News identified Joi Scientific a month later, though another year went by before the two organizations publicly confirmed the partnership.
During that quiet period, NB Power sent the second part of the licensing fee, $5 million US, to Joi. The initial 2018 target date for a Joi prototype at Belledune came and went.
Flattering the new PC minister
As NB Power and Joi prepared to announce their deal early in 2019, Thomas emailed new Progressive Conservative Energy Minister Mike Holland a briefing note about it.
Though the new PC government opposed the Trudeau climate plan, the briefing note repeated the 2016 line that Joi's proposal represented the "perfect expression" of the federal Liberal targets.
At a Nov. 1 committee hearing, People's Alliance Leader Kris Austin questioned Gaëtan Thomas about the technology. (CBC)
The NB Power CEO added a personal note to Holland.
"I am very appreciative of your support and the fact we have a very decisive government on these critical files," Thomas wrote. "I feel we have advanced more files in less than 2 months than in the whole calendar year in 2018."
From fact to 'claim'
A month later, on Feb. 26, 2019, NB Power and Joi announced their agreement. "Joi Scientific's Hydrogen 2.0 technology uses a high efficiency, high throughput system to liberate hydrogen from untreated seawater," the release said.
At the Nov. 1 committee hearing, People's Alliance Leader Kris Austin read that line back to Thomas.
"Well," Thomas replied, "that's what we — we claimed — what they claimed at the time. It's a claim."
The CEO also told the committee that the technology "is still promising, but not to the same levels we initially thought."
'The plan has to be changed'
He also told the committee that because of the disappointing test results in Florida, "the plan has to be changed," shifting from on-demand energy generation to large-scale storage and possibly removing Belledune as the site for a prototype.
"We have to replan this."
The same day, Thomas briefed Holland about the testing. The minister's subsequent public statements were succinct and blunt.
"Up until this point, we haven't seen results that prove viability, so therefore I'm assuming that maybe there is no viability," he said Nov. 7.
Final testing is due in December and after that, he said, "either you send me somebody from MIT who says, 'Eureka!' or it didn't deliver the results and then we wrap things up."
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28 Comments
David Amos
Methinks folks should not forget the PUBLIC EUB hearing about the 100 million dollar Not So Smart Meters is due to begin in January N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Methinks we shall see how sincere the PANB and the Greens are in their laments after the Speech From The Throne is history next week N'esy Pas?
Richard Dunn
How Gaetan Thomas still has a job defies logic.
David Amos
Reply to @Richard
Dunn: Not really If you knew politicking as well as he does you would
understand that logic has nothing to do with his job security Methinks
with a little luck, a lack of ethics and the right connections anyone
could do as well for themselves as all the other overpaid NB Power
people do at our expense N'esy Pas?
Greg Smith
The only way that “Ode to Joy” relates to this entire fiasco, is that both playing it, and understanding the basic laws of thermodynamics are taught to grade school aged children. Somebody please fire this clown.
David Amos
Reply to @Greg Smith:
NAW Why spoil the fun? Methinks the clown and his cohorts play a
wonderfully comical part in the circus Higgy calls a government Even CBC
is making fun of them with the wordplay of Beethoven's 9th N'esy Pas?
Ben Haroldson
NBp is so much like at con it's scary.
Joseph Vacher
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: care to elaborate? lol
Joseph
Vacher
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: This deal was made under liberal government, but ok
David Amos
Reply to @Joseph
Vacher: Seems that lot of liberals forgot that just before the last
election their buddies whom they appointed to the EUB board stopped NB
Power from going for the gold in order to participate in the Smart Meter
Scam Furthermore Gallant promised to freeze NB Power's rates for 3
years like Alward did before him but The Greens made him take back that
promise or they would not support his attempt to retain the mandate.
However as soon as Higgy seized the reigns of power with the assistance
of the PANB NB Power got a rate increase and just submitted another one
plus they are going after the gold for Smart Meters again. Methinks
the electorate should quit laughing at Independents and consider how
much politicians of any party truly care about their constituents and
start voting accordingly or they will continue to get the governments
they deserve N'esy Pas?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-joi-scientific-technology-test-minister-mike-holland-1.5351801
Nothing to suggest Joi Scientific tech works, says minister
Mike Holland gives NB Power until end of December to show Joi technology is viable
· CBC News · Posted: Nov 07, 2019 5:45 PM AT
Mike Holland, the natural resources and energy minister, says he doesn't have the experts who can say whether the technology works. (Kirk Pennell/CBC)
There's no evidence Joi Scientific's hydrogen technology is viable, according to the province's minister of natural resources and energy development.
Mike Holland said he's instructed NB Power to continue operating its lab in Florida until the end of the year, when the lease for the space expires, while Joi Scientific conducts a "final test" on its technology.
"Once that's completed, either you send me somebody from MIT who says, 'Eureka!' or it didn't deliver the results and then we wrap things up," Holland said on CBC New Brunswick's Political Panel on Thursday.
Last Thursday Holland said he didn't want to have a "knee-jerk reaction" to CBC News reporting that Joi's technology didn't work. He said he wanted a briefing from NB Power, a briefing that took place last Friday.
The Political Panel from CBC News New Brunswick
Nov. 7: What oversight was there in the Joi Scientific venture?
Joi Scientific has previously told CBC News it is continuing work on its "seawater-based hydrogen technology in co-operation with our licensees, including NB Power." The company has declined to discuss its technology "due to non-disclosure agreements."
NB Power, with the help of the Regional Development Corporation, spent $13 million Cdn to license Joi Scientific's hydrogen production technology.
The utility continues to spend $20,000 a month operating a laboratory at Joi's Florida office.
While Holland couldn't say who is providing oversight for Joi Scientific's "final test," he said it's "the same testing that has so far come back and shown that the viability isn't what it was initially proposed to be."
"Up until this point, we haven't seen results that prove viability so therefore I'm assuming that maybe there is no viability," Holland said in an interview after the political panel.
"But I'm not in a position to say that because I don't have the expertise required."
Department lacked the necessary expertise
Meanwhile, Holland's deputy minister told a committee of MLAs on Thursday morning that his department lacked the expertise to assess Joi's technology when the province and NB Power committed money to the project in 2016.
"We had very little input into the NB Power initiative," Tom MacFarlane told the public accounts committee.
While the Regional Development Corporation consulted the department, "we wouldn't have had expertise and didn't have any expertise in that area, so we could offer little input."
Joi Scientific received a $13 million licensing fee from NB Power, with $6.7 million from the the Regional Development Corporation. (Karissa Donkin/CBC)
MacFarlane said NB Power had its own experts better able to assess Joi's secret hydrogen technology.
"So we weren't in a position to offer much advice to government in terms of whether this technology was viable, not viable. That was an initiative explored through NB Power and all of their resources in terms of expertise around that."
That's despite the presence of, and glowing words from, then-energy minister Rick Doucet at a December 2017 news conference, where NB Power first broached the possibility of a hydrogen-from-seawater option for the Belledune generating station.
"We want to move in a new direction, something that's very innovative, and we've got great opportunities right on our doorstep here," he said at the time.
MacFarlane was responding Thursday to questions from Green Party Leader David Coon about whether the department had the capacity to offer independent advice to the government on energy questions.
MacFarlane said the department has expertise on "traditional" energy sources, but not new ones.
"The fact that it's research means quite frankly we don't know the answer. That's why they would do research."
Coon said on the political panel that anyone with any expertise would have known that efficiently extracting hydrogen from seawater was a dubious proposition.
"This seemed too good to be true and when that happens you've got to put up the red flags."
Tom MacFarlane, deputy minister of natural resources and energy development, told a committee of MLAs on Thursday that the department lacked the expertise to assess Joi’s technology when the investment was made in 2016. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
People's Alliance MLA Rick DeSaulniers also criticized the project.
"They're playing poker with our money and they made a bad bet," he said.
Holland indicated the department hadn't yet decided who would evaluate the December test at Joi Scientific to determine whether the technology is viable. He said he may have to look outside of government for that expertise.
"It has to be thorough and it has to ensure that there are subject matter experts that are very widely renowned and recognized, because this process had some issues with the way it's been rolled out," Holland said in an interview.
"So it's very incumbent on us to make sure that the folks that validate, verify and then report back have credibility."
Alternative energy knowledge gap
MacFarlane told the committee that the department still lacks the resources to assess alternative energy technologies, including current research into small modular nuclear reactors taking place in Saint John.
The New Brunswick Energy Solutions Corporation, a Crown corporation set up by Brian Gallant's Liberal government, gave two companies, ARC Nuclear and Moltex Energy, $10 million to conduct research into the technology.
Green Party Leader David Coon says the technology 'seemed too good to be true' and that should have raised red flags. (Joe McDonald/CBC)
Though Holland is quoted in a July news release saying New Brunswick is "leading the way" in small-reactor research, MacFarlane told the committee of MLAs his department hasn't been consulted by the province.
"It hasn't called upon our department. Largely, that expertise would rest in NB Power's expertise."
Holland said on the panel that the Progressive Conservative government would be more rigorous in funding such proposals.
"I know full well that I've got a very high bar that I've got to reach," he said.
No one from the Liberals, who were in power in 2016 and approved the funding for Joi from the Regional Development Corporation, attended Thursday's CBC panel. The party said its energy critic, Benoit Bourque, was away.
Listen to the full CBC New Brunswick Political Panel podcast by downloading from the CBC Podcast page or subscribing to the podcast in iTunes.
61 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story. David Amos
Methinks many folks who don't bother to vote would agree if you had any faith in the nonsense you heard and read in the past month or so then you have the government you deserve.
However in short order it will be up to the PANB and the Greens to decide whether or not Higgy and his minions can continue overseeing the local circus N'esy Pas?
Johnny Horton
Reply to @David Amos:
The PANB is toast if they force an election this fall. People are electioned out atm.
The PANB is toast if they force an election this fall. People are electioned out atm.
Lou Bell
Chasing the same unicorn the Liberals chased with Atcon !!
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell: Cry me a river
Fred Brewer
The Joi magic beans fiasco calls into question our recent $10 million dollar "investment" in ARC Nuclear and Moltex Energy. The Department of Energy claims they have no resources to evaluate this technology. Well then, consult outside experts. Perhaps it is time to halt this speculative R&D project before they come asking for another $10 million and then another $10 million and so on and so on.
David Amos
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Methinks its chickenfeed compared to the money NB Power wants to spend on Smart Meters N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
Methinks what is truly comical is that Freddy just confessed that he
never reads my replies even though I usually agree with him N'esy Pas?
Marc Goudreau
A serious inquiry of the circumstances around this frivolous investment of public funds needs doing ASAP. There is no way on Gods' green earth such an amount of money could be siphoned into such a well researched and vetted concept (hydrogen extraction from salinated water) without some sort of personal profit and bankable quid pro quo in the offing. Did some senior executive in charge of "everything" at the NB department of energy and natural resources engineer some lucrative post retirement opportunity at the end of their tenure as one of N.B's top Gov't employees? With so much financial hardship for so many people in NB... this brand of incompetence by Gov't is completely unacceptablle.
David Amos
Reply to @Marc
Goudreau: Methinks NB Power does not need an office located in Cape
Canaveral. It ain't rocket science to understand that we have been
conned However some privileged NB Power employees and well connected
bureaucrats still get to enjoy the sun and beaches in Florida on our
heating bill bucks N'esy Pas?
David Amos
I swore off running for public office but as I listen to Holland yap and how weak his opposition is Methinks I should rethink that N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
If I am correct about Higgy's plan about causing another election in a
couple of weeks methinks everybody knows I would love to debate the
leader of the Green Party in Fat Fred City during the Yuletide season
instead of my mindless MLA Ross Wetmore who won't even help me get a
Health Care Card N'esy Pas?
Terry
Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos:
Even when motivated there seem to be some "sweetheart" departments regular MLAs can't gain access to?
At least that is what I have seen..............
Even when motivated there seem to be some "sweetheart" departments regular MLAs can't gain access to?
At least that is what I have seen..............
David Amos
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: Methinks you should recall that I ran against Brucy Baby Northrup
the dude who pretended to care about our forests. Now he is warming a
back bench because Higgy's Irving bosses would have it no other way. My
MLA Wetmore is a Cabinet Minister. He could get my Health Care Card with
a simple phone call N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: BINGO
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: I do try to reply However we know the game don't we and why I often say BINGO lately?
Fred Brewer
It is fine for Mr. Holland to say he needs to hear from MIT before he believes in the technology, but shouldn't that have happened BEFORE we invested a nickel in Joi?
BruceJack
Speculator
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Should maybe the dean of engineering at UNB review some of the course offerings?
David Amos
Reply to @BruceJack
Speculator: Methinks Norms Betts is still camped in UNB Whereas this
local politician also sat with the Board of Directors of the Bank of
Canada etc I bet that Betts knows somebody who knows somebody who knows
somebody who will keep UNB out of this circus N'esy Pas?
Fred Brewer
Reply to @BruceJack
Speculator: I would hope that most people understand that this is not
the fault of UNB and that most of their engineering graduates lead
productive lives that benefit the public. But of course there are
exceptions.
Justin Time
"MacFarlane said NB Power had its own experts better able to assess Joi's secret hydrogen technology." Hard to believe that anybody with an engineering degree would not see through this scam. Were the "experts" he's referring to maybe not professionals at all or could it have been Mr. Thomas acting alone? Either way someone should be held accountable. And the status of any future decisions on any projects proposed by the "experts" at NB Power will definitely need to be scrutinized. Confidence in that organization is gone. I sympathize with any competent engineers in the company because they are all being painted with the same brush, whether they were involved with this or not
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Justin Time: We need to follow the money to see if any of it ended up in the pockets of anyone at NB Power.
David Amos
Reply to @Justin
Time: Methinks Minister Mikey Holland and his cohorts should go to the
EUB website in order to checkout Matters 357 (still ongoing), 375 and
430 and start downloading files and transcripts then have somebody
explain things to them real slow FYI the 452 Matter about NB Power's
second bid for 100 million bucks for "Smart Meters" has already begun.
Some folks agree that Higgy should lose his mandates over that simple
fact alone N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Methinks at the risk of being redundant i do declare that there is is an election coming soon and there no need for me to say I told you so because I saved the proof of what i said before it went "Poof" and can be sourced elsewhere if anybody cared to look N'esy Pas?
Jamie Beaver
Good Grief, will you please stop starting all of your posts with "Methinks" and ending with "N'esy Pas?". Most educated people in this country can form a cohesive sentence and get their message across. Try it!
David Amos
Reply to @Jamie
Beaver: Methinks whereas you remember my posts perhaps you should try
reading between the two words that upset you N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Jamie
Beaver: Methinks most educated people in this country like Mr Prime
Minister Trudeau The Younger are mindless and will never get the message
but my fellow Hillybilly Franky Boy McKenna and his Yankee buddies
certainly did N'esy Pas?
https://www.scribd.com/doc/2718120/integrity-yea-right
https://www.scribd.com/doc/2718120/integrity-yea-right
Rose Michaud
Reply to @Jamie Beaver: Agreed. I have just started skipping them.
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Rose Michaud: Mute function works wonders.
David Amos
Reply to @Rose Michaud @Fred Brewer: Its a two way street
Terry Tibbs
Peter Gabriel summed it up almost perfectly:
I don't remember, I don't recall
I got no memory of anything at all
I don't remember, I don't recall
I got no memory of anything
-anything at all.............
David Amos
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: Methinks you know I remember everything I said on this topic and
many other things because I saved it all before it went "Poof" N'esy
Pas?
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