https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 48 others
Methinks nobody can deny that I told off the EUB and their many cohorts during the Public Session in Fat Fred City before the latest circus began N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/11/methinks-dave-young-and-his-buddy-john.html
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/05/joi-scientific-gamble-necessary-to-help.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/untold-story-joi-scientific-nb-power-1.5359262
---------- Original message ----------
---------- Original message ----------
From: "Waycott, Stephen"
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 22:20:18 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: EXT - Re Matter 430 If NB Power wishes to
attack me at the last minute again they should at least notify me
byway of the correct email address
To: David Amos
Thank you for your email.
I will be out of the office at a regulatory hearing on Wednesday
February 6, returning on Thursday February 7. I will be checking my
emails only intermittently while I am away.
If your matter is urgent, please contact Brad Crawford at
BCrawford@nbpower.com or 506-458-3520.
Thanks,
Stephen Waycott
Director, Corporate Regulatory Affairs
NB Power
________________________________
This e-mail communication (including any or all attachments) is
intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is
addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If
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strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
contact the sender and delete the original and any copy of this e-mail
and any printout thereof, immediately. Your co-operation is
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Le présent courriel (y compris toute pièce jointe) s'adresse
uniquement à son destinataire, qu'il soit une personne ou un
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et d'éliminer l'original du courriel, ainsi que toute copie
électronique ou imprimée de celui-ci, immédiatement. Nous sommes
reconnaissants de votre collaboration.
---------- Original message ----------
From: Scott Stoll
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 22:20:20 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Re Matter 430 If NB Power wishes to attack
me at the last minute again they should at least notify me byway of
the correct email address
To: David Amos
I will be out of the office until Tuesday, February 12th, 2019.
During this time, I will have very limited access to email and
voicemail. I will endeavour to respond to emails during the evening.
If you require immediate assistance please contact my assistant Alison
Reynolds at (416) 863-1500 and she will direct you to the appropriate
lawyer.
On 6/20/19, Waycott, Stephen
> NB Power will be sending a team of six representatives, plus one on the
> phone.
>
> __________________________________
> Stephen A. Waycott
> Director, Corporate Regulatory Affairs
> New Brunswick Power Corporation
> 506-458-3748 (office)
> 506-429-2216 (mobile)
> swaycott@nbpower.com
>
>
---------- Original message ----------
From: NBEUB/CESPNB <General@nbeub.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 13:20:40 +0000
Subject: RE: Brattle Presentation
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Thank you for your email to the Energy and Utilities Board.
***
La Commission de l'énergie et des services publics du
Nouveau-Brunswick vous remercie pour votre courriel.
N.B. Energy and Utilities Board
Commission de l’énergie et des services publics du N.-B.
15 Market Square – Suite 1400
P.O. Box 5001/C.P. 5001
Saint John, NB E2L 4Y9
Telephone : 506-658-2504
Fax/Télécopieur : 506-643-7300
Email : general@nbeub.ca / Courriel : general@cespnb.ca
Website: www.nbeub.ca / Site Web : www.cespnb.ca
Confidentiality Notice
This private message (and any attachments) is for the exclusive use of
the individual for whom, or entity for which, it is intended. It may
contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from
disclosure by law. Its author does not waive the protection afforded
to it under applicable law. Disclosure to anyone other than the
intended recipient does not constitute waiver of privilege. Its
possession or usage, by any person other than the one for whom it is
intended, is not authorized by its author and is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
immediately, at our expense, by telephone at (506) 658-2504. Also, if
you received this email in error, delete it and any attachments from
your computer system and records. Thank you.
Avis de confidentialité
Ce message privé (et toutes les pièces jointes) est à l'usage exclusif
de la personne pour laquelle ou entité pour laquelle, il est destiné.
Il peut contenir des informations qui sont personnelles,
confidentielles ou exemptées de la divulgation par la loi. Son auteur
ne renonce pas à la protection accordée en vertu de la loi applicable.
Sa divulgation à toute personne autre que son destinataire ne
constitue pas une renonciation de privilège. Sa possession ou
l'utilisation, par une personne autre que celle pour laquelle il est
destiné, n'est pas autorisée par son auteur et est strictement
interdite. Si vous recevez cette communication par erreur, veuillez
nous appeler dans les plus brefs délais, à frais virés, au (506)
658-2504. Aussi, si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez
effacer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système
informatique et de vos dossiers. Merci.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Sent: June 26, 2019 9:49 AM
To: Dave.Young@nbeub.ca
Cc: louis-philippe.gauthier@cfib.
david.russell@gnb.ca; Gilles.volpe@enbridge.com;
Paul.Volpe@enbridge.com; dave.lavigne@enbridge.com;
len.hoyt@mcinnescooper.com; jeffery.callaghan@
rzarumba@ceadvisors.com; gerald@kissnb.com;
cstewart@stewartmckelvey.com; hanrahan.dion@jdirving.com;
lcozzarini@nbpower.com; jfurey@nbpower.com; srussell@nbpower.com;
wharrison@nbpower.com; NBPRegulatory@nbpower.com;
NConnellyBosse@nbpower.com; SWaycott@nbpower.com;
bcrawford@nbpower.com; General@nbeub.ca; ecdesmond@nbeub.ca;
Michael.Dickie@nbeub.ca; John.Lawton@nbeub.ca; Kathleen.Mitchell@nbeub.ca; Ahmad.Faruqui@brattle.com; Cecile.Bourbonnais@brattle.com
heather.black@gnb.ca; rdk@indecon.com; sussexsharingclub@nb.aibn.com; margot.cragg@umnb.ca; jeff.garrett@sjenergy.com; dan.dionne@perth-andover.com;
pierreroy@edmundston.ca; ray.robinson@sjenergy.com; marta.kelly@sjenergy.com; sstoll@airdberlis.com; pzarnett@bdrenergy.com; leducjr@nb.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Brattle Presentation
Please find attached a copy of the complete text of the emails I sent
the Brattle people and others as soon as I was aware that they were
involved in this matter..
David Raymond Amos
506 434 8433
On 6/26/19, Young, Dave <Dave.Young@nbeub.ca> wrote:
> Please find attached a copy of the full Brattle presentation for this
> morning
>
> David Young
> Senior Advisor
> New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board
> (506)643-7573
>
>
 NBEUB/CESPNB | Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 8:37 AM | |
| To: David Amos | ||
Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original
| ||
Thank you for your email to the Energy and Utilities Board. *** La Commission de l'énergie et des services publics du Nouveau-Brunswick vous remercie pour votre courriel. N.B. Energy and Utilities Board Commission de l’énergie et des services publics du N.-B. 15 Market Square – Suite 1400 P.O. Box 5001/C.P. 5001 Saint John, NB E2L 4Y9 Telephone : 506-658-2504 Fax/Télécopieur : 506-643-7300 Email : general@nbeub.ca / Courriel : general@cespnb.ca Website: www.nbeub.ca / Site Web : www.cespnb.ca
Confidentiality Notice
This private message (and any attachments) is for the exclusive use of the individual for whom, or entity for which, it is intended. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure by law. Its author does not waive the protection afforded to it under applicable law. Disclosure to anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute waiver of privilege. Its possession or usage, by any person other than the one for whom it is intended, is not authorized by its author and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, at our expense, by telephone at (506) 658-2504. Also, if you received this email in error, delete it and any attachments from your computer system and records. Thank you. Avis de confidentialité Ce message privé (et toutes les pièces jointes) est à l'usage exclusif de la personne pour laquelle ou entité pour laquelle, il est destiné. Il peut contenir des informations qui sont personnelles, confidentielles ou exemptées de la divulgation par la loi. Son auteur ne renonce pas à la protection accordée en vertu de la loi applicable. Sa divulgation à toute personne autre que son destinataire ne constitue pas une renonciation de privilège. Sa possession ou l'utilisation, par une personne autre que celle pour laquelle il est destiné, n'est pas autorisée par son auteur et est strictement interdite. Si vous recevez cette communication par erreur, veuillez nous appeler dans les plus brefs délais, à frais virés, au (506) 658-2504. Aussi, si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez effacer ce courriel, ainsi que les pièces jointes, de votre système informatique et de vos dossiers. Merci. -----Original Message----- From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail. Sent: August 15, 2019 7:35 AM To: Dave.Young@nbeub.ca; blaine.higgs@gnb.ca; mike.holland@gnb.ca;
sylvie.gadoury@radio-canada.
Cc: louis-philippe.gauthier@cfib. Subject: Re: Third Rate Design Stakeholder Meeting Methinks Dave Young and his buddy
John Herron should go figure why their CBC pals deleted my
comments this morning
N'esy Pas Mr Higgs?
https://davidraymondamos3. Wednesday, 14 August 2019 NB Power asks EUB to reconsider smart meters https://twitter.com/ David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
Methinks every
lawyer in NB knows that info was sourced from the PUBLIC RECORDS of the
EUB N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3. #cdnpoli #nbpoli https://www.cbc.ca/news/ https://www.cbc.ca/news/ NB Power asks EUB to reconsider smart meters 75 Comments last night and a lot less this morning Commenting is now closed for this story. David R. Amos Content disabled Methinks its rather obvious why I made a comment within every thread N'esy Pas? David R. Amos Content disabled Methinks the crickets are continuing to tell me that nobody truly cares about NB Power's secret deals involving AMI etc N'esy Pas? David R. Amos Content disabled Reply to @David R. Amos: The Kings County Record June 22, 2004 Raising a Little Hell- Lively Debate Provokes Crowd By Erin Hatfield "If you don't like what you got, why don't you change it? If your world is all screwed up, rearrange it." The 1979 Trooper song Raise a Little Hell blared on the speakers at the 8th Hussars Sports Center Friday evening as people filed in to watch the Fundy candidates debate the issues. It was an accurate, if unofficial, theme song for the debate. The crowd of over 200 spectators was dwarfed by the huge arena, but as they chose their seats, it was clear the battle lines were drawn. Supporters of Conservative candidate Rob Moore naturally took the blue chairs on the right of the rink floor while John Herron's Liberalswent left. There were splashes of orange, supporters of NDP Pat Hanratty, mixed throughout. Perhaps the loudest applause came from a row towards the back, where supporters of independent candidate David Amos sat. Staying true to party platforms for the most part, candidates responded to questions about the gun registry, same sex marriage, the exodus of young people from the Maritimes and regulated gas prices. Herron and Moore were clear competitors,constantly challenging each other on their answers and criticizing eachothers’ party leaders. Hanratty flew under the radar, giving short, concise responses to the questions while Amos provided some food for thought and a bit of comic relief with quirky answers. "I was raised with a gun," Amos said in response to the question of thenational gun registry. "Nobody's getting mine and I'm not paying 10 cents for it." David R. Amos Content disabled Reply to @David R. Amos: Cutline – David Amos, independent candidate in Fundy, with some of his favourite possessions—motorcycles. McKnight/KCR The Unconventional Candidate David Amos Isn’t Campaigning For Your Vote, But…. By Gisele McKnight FUNDY—He has a pack of cigarettes in his shirt pocket, a chain on his wallet, a beard at least a foot long, 60 motorcycles and a cell phone that rings to the tune of "Yankee Doodle." Meet the latest addition to the Fundy ballot—David Amos. The independent candidate lives in Milton, Massachusetts with his wife and two children, but his place of residence does not stop him from running for office in Canada. One has only to be at least 18, a Canadian citizen and not be in jail to meet Elections Canada requirements. When it came time to launch his political crusade, Amos chose his favourite place to do so—Fundy. Amos, 52, is running for political office because of his dissatisfaction with politicians. "I’ve become aware of much corruption involving our two countries," he said. "The only way to fix corruption is in the political forum." The journey that eventually led Amos to politics began in Sussex in 1987. He woke up one morning disillusioned with life and decided he needed to change his life. "I lost my faith in mankind," he said. "People go through that sometimes in midlife." So Amos, who’d lived in Sussex since 1973, closed his Four Corners motorcycle shop, paid his bills and hit the road with Annie, his 1952 Panhead motorcycle. "Annie and I rode around for awhile (three years, to be exact) experiencing the milk of human kindness," he said. "This is how you renew your faith in mankind – you help anyone you can, you never ask for anything, but you take what they offer." David R. Amos Content disabled Reply to @David R. Amos: For those three years, they offered food, a place to sleep, odd jobs and conversation all over North America. Since he and Annie stopped wandering, he has married, fathered a son and a daughter and become a house-husband – Mr. Mom, as he calls himself. He also describes himself in far more colourful terms—a motorcyclist rather than a biker, a "fun-loving, free-thinking, pig-headed individual," a "pissed-off Maritimer" rather than an activist, a proud Canadian and a "wild colonial boy." Ironically, the man who is running for office has never voted in his life. "But I have no right to criticize unless I offer my name," he said. "It’s alright to ***** in the kitchen, but can you walk the walk?" Amos has no intention of actively campaigning. "I didn’t appreciate it when they (politicians) pounded on my door interrupting my dinner," he said. "If people are interested, they can call me. I’m not going to drive my opinions down their throats." And he has no campaign budget, nor does he want one. "I won’t take any donations," he said. "Just try to give me some. It’s not about money. It goes against what I’m fighting about." David R. Amos Content disabled Reply to @David R. Amos: "What he’s fighting for is the discussion of issues – tainted blood, the exploitation of the Maritimes’ gas and oil reserves and NAFTA, to name a few. "The political issues in the Maritimes involve the three Fs – fishing, farming and forestry, but they forget foreign issues," he said. "I’m death on NAFTA, the back room deals and free trade. I say chuck it (NAFTA) out the window. NAFTA is the North American Free Trade Agreement which allows an easier flow of goods between Canada, the United States and Mexico. Amos disagrees with the idea that a vote for him is a wasted vote. "There are no wasted votes," he said. "I want people like me, especially young people, to pay attention and exercise their right. Don’t necessarily vote for me, but vote." Although…if you’re going to vote anyway, Amos would be happy to have your X by his name. "I want people to go into that voting booth, see my name, laugh and say, ‘what the hell.’" David R. Amos Content disabled Reply to @David R. Amos: Why block just part of this thread? David R. Amos Surprise Surprise Surprise David R. Amos Reply to @David R. Amos: Methinks Mr Higgs and Mr Holland are well aware that the long delayed 357 Matter within the EUB should be heard first N'esy Pas? David R. Amos Content disabled Transcript New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power 7 Corporation for approval of the schedules of the rates for the fiscal year commencing April 1, 2018. held at the Delta Hotel, Saint John, New Brunswick, on February 9th 2018. Page 601 VICE-CHAIRMAN: I was a bit surprised when I heard this morning and yesterday that you are entering into a contract at the end of February and is that with respect to the purchase of the smart meters? MS. CLARK: That's correct. VICE-CHAIRMAN: So how can you enter into a contract without the firm approval of this Board, if we are going to approve or not the AMI? How prudent is that? MS. CLARK: So we are at the end stages of the contract in terms of just the final terms and conditions, but we have been very clear that we -- with the vendor -- and they recognize that, because we also have Nova Scotia Power, who is part of our consortium, who also needs Board approval. So should we not get -- this is conditional on EUB approval. So should we not get EUB approval, the contract would not proceed. David R. Amos Content disabled Reply to @David R. Amos: Transcript continued VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now there was discussion yesterday, I think it was with Mr. Stoll regarding time of use and time based pricing, and so I went through the evidence this morning, and in your main evidence, and I think one of the Page 602 objective of having the AMI going forward to a time of use price structure -- rate structure. So am I understanding that correctly MS. CLARK: That is correct. And in the evidence, we did answer an interrogatory on that and you will see that AMI is an enabler for time varying rates in the Energy Smart NB Plan. And we did have time varying rates included in our investment rationale. We took it out, because we couldn't -- we couldn't pinpoint without more detail as to what those time varying rates may be and the benefit of those, so we took them out of the investment rationale at this point in time, but certainly it's something that we are looking at in the future. David R. Amos Content disabled Reply to @David R. Amos: Transcript continued VICE-CHAIRMAN: So the fundamental question here is that the Board should heard -- or hear Matter 357 before approving the AMI? So if we don't approve time of use, that basically what will happen with your AMI, I mean it's -- if we don't approve the time of use, which we are going to hear next year, how can we proceed in approving the AMI before we look at the rate structure? MS. CLARK: As we have talked about in our investment rationale, there are a number of other benefits to both the customer and to the utility over and above time varying rates that we believe are important for the Page 603 utility and for the movement forward of our Energy Smart New Brunswick plan. Many of those benefits accrue to the customer. And many of those benefits accrue to the utility and ultimately the customer. So even if we were not to move in the direction of time varying rates, we believe that the investment rationale supports the AMI installation based on the other investment -- or based on the other benefits that it provides. Ben Haroldson Content disabled Reply to @David R. Amos: Thank you. Too bad more NBers didn't have access to what is going on. Most shrug their shoulders and carry on. Keep on em. David R. Amos Content disabled Reply to @Ben Haroldson: Methinks every lawyer in NB knows that info was sourced from the PUBLIC RECORDS of the EUB N'esy Pas? On 8/14/19, Young, Dave <Dave.Young@nbeub.ca> wrote: > Participants > > The third rate design stakeholder session will take place in > Fredericton at the Wu Centre on September 19th and continue the morning of September 20th. > Prior to the meeting the Dr. Faruqui and Ms. Bourbonnais will send out > a draft copy of the report for discussion. > > Sincerely > > David Young > Senior Advisor > New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board > (506)643-7573 > > | ||
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/untold-story-joi-scientific-nb-power-1.5359262
Ode to Joi: The untold story of NB Power's deal with a Florida hydrogen startup
How flattery, connections and looming carbon costs led to a $13M partnership
· CBC News · Posted: Nov 17, 2019 7:00 PM AT
NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas posed with Joi Scientific executives Robert Koeneman and Traver Kennedy on a beach in Cape Canaveral, Fla. The utility has a multimillion-dollar licensing agreement with Joi Scientific. (Joi Scientific)
--
In the early days of their courtship, NB Power and Joi Scientific lavished compliments on each other.
"This could be a worldwide game changer," NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas enthused in a July 4, 2016, email after his first visit to Joi's offices at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
Gary Chaikin, Joi's Canadian sales representative and the first official from the Florida startup to make contact with Thomas, responded with an equally fulsome ode.
"What you and NB Power are doing is visionary and will undoubtedly put NB Power on the global list of the most innovative places," Chaikin told Thomas in a July 22 email.
Thomas and NB Power board chair Ed Barrett, left, said there was plenty of scrutiny by NB Power's directors. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
The exchange is contained in hundreds of pages of documents obtained by CBC News through a right-to-information request.
Those documents show not everyone was as smitten by Joi's vow to convert seawater to hydrogen power at an industrial, and profitable, scale.
Mike Sellman, a U.S. nuclear power specialist on NB Power's board of directors, said Joi appeared to be claiming it could break one of the fundamental laws of science.
There was scepticism, obviously, on everyone's part. When someone tells you they've got the holy grail, you step back.
- Norm Betts, former NB Power vice- chair
"You can't get more energy out than you put in," he wrote in an email exchange with senior NB Power staff. "This flies into the face of what Joi Scientific seems to be saying."
"I am very much of the same mind," replied Dean Taylor, a senior nuclear official at NB Power, calling one of the Joi claims "dubious."
But two months later, Taylor wrote he had "stumbled across" data in an academic paper that convinced him Joi's claims were "in line" with the study.
NB Power signed a licensing agreement with Joi that fall and transferred $5 million US, or about $6.7 million Cdn, to the company. That fee granted the Crown corporation the right to eventually use, resell and profit from Joi's hydrogen technology.
'Delays and technical challenges'
Now that agreement and Joi's science are facing increased scrutiny after CBC News revealed that shareholders were told this summer the technology has not worked as advertised.
Joi acknowledged problems for the first time Friday in an email to CBC News.
NB Power signed a licensing agreement with Joi that transferred $5 million US, or about $6.7 million Cdn, to the company. (Michael Heenan/CBC)
"While we have encountered delays and technical challenges, we are working through these issues with our partners," said Joi's marketing vice-president Vicky Harris.
She said Joi is "as committed as ever to continuing our work on our seawater-based hydrogen technology" and is confident the company is "on the right path to create a new, cost-effective, and clean energy source in the form of green hydrogen."
'He knew somebody that knew somebody'
There are two stories about how Joi Scientific first connected with NB Power. MLAs on the select committee on Crown corporations heard both versions at a hearing Nov. 1.
In one, it was the utility's reputation that caught Joi's eye. Thomas told MLAs that NB Power was punching above its weight, chosen as one of the top 20 innovative power companies in North America and sending its CEO to speak at a big conference in San Francisco.
"They came to us," he said. "They saw how innovative we were."
The Joi-NB Power deal was meant to address the future of Belledune's generating station, the utility's last coal-burning plant. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
The second version is a more human, old-fashioned, classically New Brunswick tale.
Norm Betts, a member of NB Power's board of directors, "knew somebody that knew somebody that knew somebody, apparently," according to board chair Ed Barrett, and suggested Thomas "take a look" at Joi.
Betts, a business professor and former provincial finance minister, confirmed in an interview he'd been on the board of a retail technology company with a Toronto businessman who was also "the person responsible for Joi in Canada."
He would not say if that was Chaikin, the company's Canadian sales representative.
'The holy grail'
There was another connection: Zack Pate, a pioneer in the nuclear power industry, was on Joi's advisory board. Pate had done work with NB Power in the sixties, Betts said, and had even bought an iconic Chestnut canoe to take home with him.
"Gaëtan said, 'If Zack Pate is involved, this must be something,'" Betts recalled. Chaikin arranged for Pate to call Thomas early in the discussions.
"There was scepticism, obviously, on everyone's part," Betts said. "When someone tells you they've got the holy grail, you step back."
'Strong minds'
Betts argues that Barrett's version of the initial contact doesn't contradict Thomas's account, in which Joi noticed NB Power's willingness to try new things.
"They obviously know about NB Power," he said. "It's a pretty small world and they follow each other."
Betts said he decided to recuse himself from future NB Power board discussions about the partnership because of his connection to Joi's Canadian representative, even though Betts had no investment in Joi and was never paid by the company.
Betts was confident other board members could verify Joi's claims.
"There's some pretty strong minds there," he said. "I assume they did their homework."
The Belledune dilemma
Looming over NB Power's discussions with Joi, as it looms over all of the Crown corporation's plans, was the future of its Belledune generating station, its last coal-burning plant.
A draft cabinet document from 2016 even referred to the Joi proposal as the "Belledune Hydrogen Project."
After Joi and NB Power agreed on talking points, this is how Thomas responded.
The plant between Bathurst and Dalhousie employs more than 100 people and provides 20 per cent of the electricity NB Power sells within the province.
But under the Trudeau government's national climate plan, it must stop burning coal in 2030. Technology doesn't yet exist to replace its electricity with wind and solar power, which are unreliable and can't be stored, according to Thomas.
'The play'
Ottawa has also imposed a carbon tax on New Brunswick and other provinces without their own carbon pricing. In 2016, NB Power estimated it was facing costs of $1.5 billion, translating to an additional eight per cent increase on power bills.
But Thomas estimated that converting Belledune to hydrogen would allow NB Power to run the plant until 2043, "preserving the associated jobs and regional economic benefits" while also reducing emissions.
At the time, "the play was [$1.5 billion] hanging over our head versus a $12 million investment," Thomas told the committee.
"That's what the play was. And the potential was, yeah, probably 50-50 at the time. But most of these innovations are like that."
Former energy minister Rick Doucet said in December 2017 that the then-government wanted to move in a new direction. (CBC)
In August 2016, Joi and NB Power agreed on talking points that called the company's hydrogen technology "the perfect expression" of Canada's plan to reduce emissions and meet its Paris climate agreement targets.
"WOW!!! Very well done!" Thomas said when Joi sent him a final version of the document.
'The big kicker'
Former Liberal cabinet minister Donald Arseneault said in an interview that another tempting aspect of the Joi deal for Thomas and NB Power was the potential profit-sharing if the technology worked and was purchased by other utilities.
"That was the big kicker," Arseneault said.
Thomas alluded to that before the committee on Crown corporations.
"Whoever cracks the nut on this, it's a trillion-dollar industry, the hydrogen economy. So, it's a high risk, but there were some high rewards for NB Power."
Arseneault was the minister for the Regional Development Corporation when NB Power came looking for an initial $5 million US. "We knew what the risk was," he said, but "you hope you can trust the whole organization of NB Power."
Other Belledune options
The province had another option for Belledune. Nova Scotia signed an "equivalency agreement" with Ottawa to keep burning coal past 2030 in return for reducing the same amount of emissions elsewhere.
But Brian Gallant's Liberal government opted against that, preferring to seek a new technology — biomass, natural gas, or hydrogen — to replace coal at the plant.
"We want to move in a new direction, something that's very innovative, and we've got great opportunities right on our doorstep here," then-energy minister Rick Doucet said in December 2017.
Tom MacFarlane, the current deputy minister in the Energy Department, told MLAs that staff lacked the scientific skills to provide advice about the NB Power-Joi pitch. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
An NB Power briefing note to Doucet claimed Joi's process was "consistently repeatable" and its methodology was "reasonable and justifiable." Test results "exceeded 100%" return on energy, "consistent with the claims made by Joi Scientific."
The note also said a senior nuclear physicist at NB Power "has gained sufficient knowledge to understand the system's operation at a basic level and has confidence that the technology could be readily transferred to NB Power."
Lack of expertise
The current deputy minister in the Energy Department, Tom MacFarlane, told a committee of MLAs on Nov. 7 that staff there lacked the scientific skills to advise Doucet and the Regional Development Corporation about the NB Power-Joi pitch.
"We wouldn't have had expertise and didn't have any expertise in that area," MacFarlane said. "We weren't in a position to offer much advice to government in terms of whether this technology was viable, not viable."
Nor was the Jobs Board, a committee of cabinet ministers supported by a three-person secretariat of staffers. NB Power prepared a PowerPoint that said "energy output exceeds input" in Joi's technology, but no one at the board had the background to verify that.
Keith Cronkhite, NB Power's vice-president of business development, said the Nebraska proposal reminded him of Atlantic Hydrogen, a Fredericton company that received $4.7 million from New Brunswick taxpayers before going bankrupt in 2015. (Robert Jones/CBC)
"I was not asked to provide input into R&D-related files as I have no expertise in this area," said David Campbell, who held the title of chief economist at the secretariat.
"My assumption is that Gaëtan and his team must have vetted the firm and the concept before requesting funds from government."
'All the right questions'
At the committee hearing Nov. 1, Thomas and Barrett said there was plenty of scrutiny by NB Power's directors, which include veterans of the nuclear industry and other power utilities.
They "know this industry inside out" and were "asking all the right questions," Barrett said. "I'm quite confident that the board and the governance piece of this has been handled quite correctly."
Thomas said they were "subjected to a lot of questions from cabinet ministers" when they presented there, though confidentiality rules prevented him from saying more.
He also told the committee that he couldn't identify who did third-party verifications, also because of confidentiality requirements.
"We did the due diligence. We had independent validation and measurements. But there were parts that could not be measured. Some assumptions had been made."
'An operator'
Thomas is an electrical engineer who has spent his entire career with NB Power. He plans to retire next spring.
Betts calls him "an operator" in the positive, technical sense of the word. "His fundamental concern is keeping the lights on." Belledune represented a challenge, Betts explained, and "he would look at this from an operational, solve-the-problem point of view."
The Political Panel from CBC News New Brunswick
Nov. 7: What oversight was there in the Joi Scientific venture?
To add another layer of oversight, Thomas took a seat on Joi's board of directors. While he gets no pay and owns no stake in the Florida company, the position gives NB Power "some insight into the development of the technology," Barrett said.
"It's good governance. … We have a keen interest in making sure the technology works and that we follow the advancement of the technology."
'A call to action'
Emails obtained by CBC News also show Thomas's enthusiasm for big ideas and grand visions. At least twice, he shared articles about new energy concepts, referring to one as "a call to action."
Another article, about a proposed hydrogen power plant in Nebraska, prompted a cautionary reply from Keith Cronkhite, NB Power's vice-president of business development.
The Nebraska proposal reminded Cronkhite of Atlantic Hydrogen, a Fredericton company that received $4.7 million from New Brunswick taxpayers before going bankrupt in 2015.
To MLAs, Thomas portrayed himself as someone willing to override the doubts of some of his own staff.
In 2018, Mike Holland, minister of natural resources and energy development, was sent a briefing note about the upcoming NB Power and Joi deal before it was officially announced. (Radio-Canada)
He said he faced scepticism from NB Power engineers about $6 million worth of new technology that allowed the company to avoid a $400 million upgrade to transmission lines to Nova Scotia.
The decision is saving NB Power $14 million per year by allowing it to run the Coleson Cove plant less often, but if he'd listened to the sceptics, that never would have happened, he said.
"When you look at the overall portfolio, I think on innovation, we're doing generally well. "On this one, time will tell."
But Thomas also acknowledged to MLAs that he may have been too enthusiastic on Joi.
"We're not saying there's guaranteed results," he said. "I probably made a mistake. I was probably overly optimistic earlier in the thing, but we're still very cautiously optimistic that it can go. … We believe we did the right thing. We certainly had the right intentions."
A slice of federal green dollars
NB Power's hydrogen hopes were also premised on a belief Ottawa would subsidize Belledune's shift away from coal.
The Trudeau government planned to allocate $673 million in infrastructure funding to New Brunswick, including for "green economy" projects. Arseneault, whose riding was near Belledune, wanted some of it for the plant there.
With half of the $10 million US licensing fee from the province through the Regional Development Corporation, NB Power asked the federal government for the other half, a request co-ordinated by the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.
"It didn't materialize," Thomas said of the federal funding. "They did not match the province's commitment. … They never came to the table."
Nor did Ottawa ever complete its own due diligence into Joi.
"We didn't get there," Thomas said. An ACOA spokesperson refused to discuss the application.
NB Power antes up
With Ottawa out, NB Power needed to find the second $5 million elsewhere. Thomas asked the board to approve paying it out of the utility's own research and development budget.
"We had to make our commitment or walk away, so we decided to continue," he said.
During the Nov. 1 committee appearance, Green Party Leader David Coon questioned whether that was allowed under the Electricity Act, which gives NB Power its mandate.
Thomas responded that nothing in the law prohibited it, either.
"You did not find in the act where we couldn't do this," he said, "because if you did, you would have pointed it out instead of grandstanding."
'Broad power'
Peter Hyslop, a former public intervener at the Energy and Utilities Board and a frequent critic of NB Power management, said Thomas has a point.
"There's nothing in the act that says 'don't do anything,'" he said. NB Power "is supposed to administer the electricity system, and I'd be willing to say they'd have the broad power to look at projects that would enhance the electricity system.
"I'll leave it to others to say whether they made the right decision or not."
The deal goes quiet
At a news conference in December 2017, Thomas talked for the first time about seawater-to-hydrogen at Belledune but didn't name NB Power's partner.
CBC News identified Joi Scientific a month later, though another year went by before the two organizations publicly confirmed the partnership.
During that quiet period, NB Power sent the second part of the licensing fee, $5 million US, to Joi. The initial 2018 target date for a Joi prototype at Belledune came and went.
Flattering the new PC minister
As NB Power and Joi prepared to announce their deal early in 2019, Thomas emailed new Progressive Conservative Energy Minister Mike Holland a briefing note about it.
Though the new PC government opposed the Trudeau climate plan, the briefing note repeated the 2016 line that Joi's proposal represented the "perfect expression" of the federal Liberal targets.
At a Nov. 1 committee hearing, People's Alliance Leader Kris Austin questioned Gaëtan Thomas about the technology. (CBC)
The NB Power CEO added a personal note to Holland.
"I am very appreciative of your support and the fact we have a very decisive government on these critical files," Thomas wrote. "I feel we have advanced more files in less than 2 months than in the whole calendar year in 2018."
From fact to 'claim'
A month later, on Feb. 26, 2019, NB Power and Joi announced their agreement. "Joi Scientific's Hydrogen 2.0 technology uses a high efficiency, high throughput system to liberate hydrogen from untreated seawater," the release said.
At the Nov. 1 committee hearing, People's Alliance Leader Kris Austin read that line back to Thomas.
"Well," Thomas replied, "that's what we — we claimed — what they claimed at the time. It's a claim."
The CEO also told the committee that the technology "is still promising, but not to the same levels we initially thought."
'The plan has to be changed'
He also told the committee that because of the disappointing test results in Florida, "the plan has to be changed," shifting from on-demand energy generation to large-scale storage and possibly removing Belledune as the site for a prototype.
"We have to replan this."
The same day, Thomas briefed Holland about the testing. The minister's subsequent public statements were succinct and blunt.
"Up until this point, we haven't seen results that prove viability, so therefore I'm assuming that maybe there is no viability," he said Nov. 7.
Final testing is due in December and after that, he said, "either you send me somebody from MIT who says, 'Eureka!' or it didn't deliver the results and then we wrap things up."
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113 Comments
David Amos
Methinks we shall see how sincere the PANB and the Greens are in their laments after the Speech From The Throne is history next week N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Methinks folks should not forget the PUBLIC EUB hearing about the 100 million dollar Not So Smart Meters is due to begin in January N'esy Pas?
Greg Miller
Reply to @David Amos: Yes, NOT SO SMART METERS promoted by NOT SO SMART EXECUTIVE AT NB POWER!
Greg Smith
The
only way that “Ode to Joy” relates to this entire fiasco, is that both
playing it, and understanding the basic laws of thermodynamics are
taught to grade school aged children. Somebody please fire this clown.
David Amos
Reply to @Greg Smith:
NAW Why spoil the fun? Methinks the clown and his cohorts play a
wonderfully comical part in the circus Higgy calls a government Even CBC
is making fun of them with the wordplay of Beethoven's 9th N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Welcome to the circus and please enjoy the Throne Speech in particular.
David Amos
Methinks we should all wait with bated breath to see if the Crown Corp NB Power is mentioned within the Throne Speech tomorrow N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Methinks if anyone bothered to listen to this "Political Panel" they should have become bored with Holland and his redundant diatribe fairly quickly. Furthermore if the PANB wise up I doubt Holland will be a cabinet minister in a month or so N'esy Pas?
Michael Durant
"An NB Power briefing note to Doucet claimed Joi's process was 'consistently repeatable'...The note also said a senior nuclear physicist at NB Power 'has gained sufficient knowledge to understand the system's operation at a basic level and has confidence that the technology could be readily transferred to NB Power'.
Gaeten is a experienced electrical engineer and advised by a senior nuclear physicist.
You can't argue with that level of authority.
BruceJack Speculator
Reply to @Michael
durant: scary part of that is what sort of "science based" decisions do
these individuals make on questions, say, that might have an effect on
the safety of the nuclear plant
David Amos
Reply to @BruceJack Speculator: Good question
John McInerney
Depressing !
David Amos
Reply to @John McInerney: Relax and enjoy the circus you are paying for it anyway
Shawn Tabor
This is just some of the story. Is anyone else totally feed up with these folks. Nobody will ever be held accountable. Feel bad for the front line workers, heard it for years just how bad it was and the decisions that they made. Why has this company never been Audited. Politicians knew how bad this was and never said a word or abused it even more. Remember this is just one part of the Government and it doesn’t matter who or what party is in there, the courts are worse. Should be a purge. Oh, take a look around your neighbourhood and see how many folks work for the Government, your hard pressed to find a household that someone doesn’t draw a wage from them. Why can’t we all work for them, all get the pensions and their perks. 1 and 4 draws a wage from them. How many people did the province make rich, up threw the years and again it was discovered and nothing happened. A few, left us a burden and got wealthy on the taxpayers dime, families from Great grand fathers and mothers, their kids and even their kids all worked for some arm of the Government. Perfect storm. You might want to think about this the next time you vote.
David Amos
Reply to @Shawn
Tabor: Methinks I explained the problem to you many times already but
your Green Party friends told you to ignore me N'esy Pas?
Shawn
Tabor
Reply to @David Amos:
I don’t have any Green Party friends but there is something going on.
Taxing us isn’t the answer, but then just let the cards fall or play
your hand. Just tired of being taxed, so a certain bunch of folks can
prosper. Whatever. LOL
Shawn
Tabor
Reply to @Shawn
Tabor: I believe it’s called Business Dave, and your supposed to
separate it from personal. Too funny. Oh maybe we should not speak up,
these folks have our, yours mine interest in mind. What a joke. Death
and taxes.
Ben Haroldson
Reply to @David Amos: When are you going to fix it??
David Amos
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: I quit trying after the last election remember?
David Amos
Reply to @Shawn Tabor: I ain't laughing and neither are your green friends.
Sam Brown
You get more heat out of a heat pump then you put in......
Good Day
David Amos
Reply to @Sam Brown: What does a solar cell do if not provide free electrical power?
Al Clark
Reply to @Sam Brown: LOL thanks dr scions hahahaha
Al Clark
Reply to @David Amos: you too lol!
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Sam Brown:
Not true at all. A heat pump takes a huge volume of cold air which
contains some heat, in order to produce a small volume of higher
temperature air to heat your home. But that process is less than 100%
efficient. However the Coefficient of Performance (COP) of a heat pump
can be 3 to 1 or higher, but don't confuse that with the term
efficiency. Joi claims 200% efficiency which defies the laws of
physics. On the other hand, a heat pump does not defy any laws of
physics.
David Amos
Reply to @Fred Brewer: And the efficiency of the solar cell is?
BruceJack
Speculator
Reply to @David Amos:
10 to 15 % I believe. Interesting that in open space, the total energy
from the sun passing 1 square metre is close to one horsepower (about
745 watts) but because of low efficiency plus losses going through the
atmosphere I think you get well under 100 watts from a square metre of
panel . . . of course that doesn't convert all the energy anyway, just
certain range of light.
Sam Brown
Reply to @Fred Brewer:
I am not confused......All I said is that more useful energy at the higher temperature is obtained from the system than was supplied to it through the use of electricity or fossil fuels. The coefficient of performance, COP, of a heat pump is defined as the ratio of the energy output to the input. The energy output appears as useful heat at a higher temperature than the surroundings while the energy input is supplied by electricity or the direct use of fossil fuels. The total energy input to the system includes the natural energy from the environment and most heat pump installations have a COP greater than 1.0.
Good Day
I am not confused......All I said is that more useful energy at the higher temperature is obtained from the system than was supplied to it through the use of electricity or fossil fuels. The coefficient of performance, COP, of a heat pump is defined as the ratio of the energy output to the input. The energy output appears as useful heat at a higher temperature than the surroundings while the energy input is supplied by electricity or the direct use of fossil fuels. The total energy input to the system includes the natural energy from the environment and most heat pump installations have a COP greater than 1.0.
Good Day
David Amos
Reply to @BruceJack
Speculator: You look at different than I Whereas the wattage comes for
free I consider it far more than merely efficient. In my book the same
holds true for what the wind and fast moving water offers us except the
generators etc have moving parts that need replaced now and then
Roy Kirk
"They came to us,"
===
Of course they did. They recognized an 'easy mark' when they saw it.
David Amos
Reply to @Roy Kirk: YUP
Shawn McShane
Thomas told MLAs that NB Power was punching above its weight. "They came to us," he said. "They saw how innovative we were."
They saw nothing of the sort. They saw Thomas willing to burn ratepayers for $100 millions for meters. They saw Point Lepreau refurbishment cost overrun $1Billion.
David Amos
Reply to @Shawn McShane: YUP
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Shawn
McShane: I went searching for proof that NB Power was selected as one of
the "Top 20 innovators" and could not find anything. Can CBC shed some
light on this?
David Amos
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Methinks just like you they don't care N'esy Pas?
Pierre
LaRoches
Reply to @Shawn McShane: Simple google https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/news/news_release.2015.04.0321.html
Pierre
LaRoches
Reply to @Fred Brewer: https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/news/news_release.2015.04.0321.html
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Pierre
LaRoches: Thanks Pierre. I was not looking back that far in time. I
thought it was more recent. I also could not find the San Francisco
conference that the NBP CEO spoke at. I bet you can find that too.
David Amos
Reply to @Fred
Brewer: Methinks you don't have the first clue about the dude from San
Francisco who came to talk about NB Power to certain people such as I 3
times this summer N'esy Pas?
Kyle Woodman
Wouldn't the most reasonable approach be to convert Belledune to burning biomass from agriculture and forestry waste. Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel?
David Amos
Reply to @Kyle Woodman: Methinks we are paying the Irving Clan to do that already N'esy Pas?
Geoffrey Artem
The writer states: "and solar power, which are unreliable and can't be stored." The coil on my outboard which produces DC crapped out this spring. Can't get a new one. Installed a solar panel on the cabin roof which charges the battery. Still works...
David Amos
Reply to @Geoffrey Artem: Methinks the Volta battery doesn't need to be charged N'esy Pas?
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Geoffrey
Artem: I laughed when I read that statement too. I guess the engineers
at NB Power have never heard of batteries, capacitors, pumped hydro,
compressed air or flywheels. All of those will store any kind of
electricity regardless of how it is generated.
Greg Miller
As much as a lot of people like to bash Irvings maybe we should let them take over our Provincial crown corporations and run them on behalf of the Province--they seem to be able to make decent profits. Let's see how about we start with Cannabis New Brunswick and NB Power!
Archie Levesque
Reply to @Greg
Miller: Yes they make profit ... for the Empire. If they were in charge
nothing would change except prices would increase and profits would head
out of the country
David Amos
Reply to @Archie Levesque: I agree
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Greg
Miller: You are on the right path, but I would not choose NB Power.
Hydro Quebec has been profitable for decades and homeowners in Quebec
pay about one half of what we pay in NB for their electricity. Wouldn't
you love to have your power bill cut in half?
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Whoops, meant to say " I would not choose Irving"
David Amos
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Methinks the Irving Clan don't care about what you say any more than I do anymore N'esy Pas?
Allan J Whitney
Why WOULDN'T they come to the armpit of the middle of nowhere to showcase the biggest thing ever?
David Amos
Reply to @Allan J
Whitney: Methinks the Maritimes is one of the best places to be on the
planet We just need rid of the rampant public corruption and Mother
Nature may help the area to recover from the many wrongs practiced
against the area N'esy Pas?
Al Clark
LOL Norm Betts, one of the authors of the BILLION dollar orimulsion boondoggle. Something that had been tried and failed at several places around the globe. When inquiries were made with Venezuela it was revealed that they just didn't make it anymore as higher grades of fuel were much more profitable. His wonderful project smoking salmon a hundred miles from the coast in his hometown - more taxpayer cash vaporized.
Business prof eh?? LOL!!!!
David Amos
Reply to @Al Clark: Please explain why he is your hero???
Al Clark
Reply to @David Amos: he hasn't gone as far as harassing legislators across the ocean about his petty problems???
David Amos
Reply to @Al Clark:
Think again Methinks you should ask Mark Carney or his ne buddy Boris
Johnson why their old pal Harper appointed Betts to the Board of the
Bank of Canada N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Al Clark: Have the cops figured out who you are yet?
Robert Buck
"we're still very cautiously optimistic" Hmm, where have I heard this before. Right, Gallant on the Sears deal!!
David Amos
Reply to @Robert Buck: It s just more of the same old same old
McKenzie King
Time for Thomas to go so we can get someone who understands at least a little bit of science, and has the desire to care about how our money is spent.
David Amos
Reply to @McKenzie
King: His ship is sailing soon anyway. Methinks he enjoyed telling off a
few local politicians before he retires in Florida N'esy Pas?
BruceJack
Speculator
Reply to @McKenzie King: Qutoe from the article:
"I am very much of the same mind," replied Dean Taylor, a senior nuclear official at NB Power, calling one of the Joi claims "dubious."
But two months later, Taylor wrote he had "stumbled across" data in an academic paper that convinced him Joi's claims were "in line" with the study.
================
Scary. Suppose this guy stumbles across some way to do maintenance cheaper at Lepreau . . . what might happen?
"I am very much of the same mind," replied Dean Taylor, a senior nuclear official at NB Power, calling one of the Joi claims "dubious."
But two months later, Taylor wrote he had "stumbled across" data in an academic paper that convinced him Joi's claims were "in line" with the study.
================
Scary. Suppose this guy stumbles across some way to do maintenance cheaper at Lepreau . . . what might happen?
Al Clark
That first pic is an illustration of the Barnum principle: One born every minute (centre) and two to take him...
David Amos
Reply to @Al Clark:
Barnum never had such a principal and everybody knows it but apparently
you. Methinks its because you enjoy playing your part in this circus
N'esy Pas?
Al Clark
Reply to @David Amos: principle....
David Amos
Reply to @Al Clark: Methinks if you do finally read my lawsuit why not do a spell check on it as well N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Al Clark: BTW Barnum did say "People want to see a circus so you give them a circus"
Al Clark
Reply to @David Amos:
" The Barnum effect is named after P.T. Barnum, the showman who
declared "there零 a sucker born every minute." He found many ways to
separate "suckers", as he called gullible people, from their money."
See my deleted link for source.
See my deleted link for source.
David Amos
Reply to @Al Clark: I
deleted nothing and and I inferred already Barnum never said such a
thing only malicious spin doctors falsely claim that he did
Al Clark
Reply to @David Amos: Sure. A LOT of them LOL!
Al Clark
Reply to @David Amos: is your name maude now?
Richard Dunn
How Gaetan Thomas still has a job defies logic.
David Amos
Reply to @Richard
Dunn: Not really If you knew politicking as well as he does you would
understand that logic has nothing to do with his job security Methinks
with a little luck, a lack of ethics and the right connections anyone
could do as well for themselves as all the other overpaid NB Power
people do at our expense N'esy Pas?
Ben Haroldson
NBp is so much like at con it's scary.
Joseph Vacher
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: care to elaborate? lol
Joseph
Vacher
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: This deal was made under liberal government, but ok
David Amos
Reply to @Joseph
Vacher: Seems that lot of liberals forgot that just before the last
election their buddies whom they appointed to the EUB board stopped NB
Power from going for the gold in order to participate in the Smart Meter
Scam Furthermore Gallant promised to freeze NB Power's rates for 3
years like Alward did before him but The Greens made him take back that
promise or they would not support his attempt to retain the mandate.
However as soon as Higgy seized the reigns of power with the assistance
of the PANB NB Power got a rate increase and just submitted another one
plus they are going after the gold for Smart Meters again. Methinks
the electorate should quit laughing at Independents and consider how
much politicians of any party truly care about their constituents and
start voting accordingly or they will continue to get the governments
they deserve N'esy Pas?
Miles Haukeness
Send the bill to Justin and Catherine...They are the ones that started this mess by mandating all coal plants cease to exist by 2030. Ridiculous.
Terry
Tibbs
Reply to @Miles Haukeness:
You are forgetting the Venezuelan oil emulsion (tar sands) fiasco. You also forget too: that we have coal in the ground of NB, but choose to import coal.
You are forgetting the Venezuelan oil emulsion (tar sands) fiasco. You also forget too: that we have coal in the ground of NB, but choose to import coal.
David Amos
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: I forgot none of what you mentioned and the proof of how I dealt
with those issues at the time can still be found on the Internet if one
knows where to look
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