Thursday 13 April 2023

Higgs government rules out provincial police force to replace RCMP

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YO Higgy Why is that I am not surprised that I am being blocked from commenting on this topic?

  

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Thursday, 13 April 2023

Higgs government rules out provincial police force to replace RCMP


 

Higgs government rules out provincial police force to replace RCMP

Minister says transition would take a decade and cost would be ‘extremely high’

Public Safety Minister Kris Austin told a committee of the legislature Thursday morning that there's no money in his budget this year to set up such a force because the province has opted against it.

"A provincial police force is really not feasible, simply because of the costs associated with it [and] the amount of time it would take to implement such a division, such a force," he said.

He later told reporters the transition to a provincial force might have taken a decade and the cost would have been "extremely high," though he didn't have a dollar figure.

"It would be a huge project, and I'm not convinced that the public would get the best bang for their buck," he said.

A police officer wears a vest that says police in front of crime scene tape. The province has a 20-year contract with the RCMP for policing most of the province that will end in 2032. (Shane Magee/CBC)

The RCMP now provides provincial policing under a 20-year contract in areas of the province where there is no municipal police force.

Municipalities are required to pay part of the cost, and some communities have complained in recent years that they don't feel they've been getting police coverage in line with what they're spending.

Austin said rather than replace the RCMP, his department will continue working on how its own enforcement officers, Mounties and municipal police can work together more effectively to provide better service.

He also said he's open to working with municipalities that are unhappy with the federal force and that opt to create their own forces. 

"These are all discussions we're willing to have. At the end of the day it's got to be feasible. The standards have to be there. We want good policing." 

A many with grey hair in a suit stands in front of a wall covered with old photos. Liberal public safety critic Jacques LeBlanc says Austin raised questions about RCMP staffing when he was leader of the People's Alliance. (CBC)

Liberal public safety critic Jacques LeBlanc said he was "kind of surprised to hear the minister say it's not feasible.… We all knew that."

He pointed out that Austin raised questions about adequate RCMP staffing in rural areas when he was the leader of the People's Alliance party, before he joined the Progressive Conservative government a year ago. 

"It's like putting your foot in your mouth," LeBlanc said.

Austin acknowledged his previous position during the committee session.

"That's certainly something that I have, in previous years, obviously wanted to know more about. So now I know more about it."

Last year residents of McAdam complained at a public meeting that the RCMP were taking too long to respond to calls.

The force later stepped up their presence in the village, but local businessman Don Doherty says it hasn't helped and crime remains a problem. 

A many stands at a microphone at an outside event in front of people in people in chairs. Don Doherty of McAdam said the RCMP aren't effectively responding to crime happening in the New Brunswick village, and was one of several people who spoke out about their concerns at a meeting at McAdam High School last year. (Aidan Cox/CBC)

Switching from the RCMP to a provincial force wouldn't make any difference as long as federal policies and laws make it hard for police and prosecutors to arrest people or secure long prison sentences, he said.

"It's impossible to lay charges with the way the laws are," said Doherty.

"It needs to be fixed at the federal level, not the provincial level. A provincial police force is not going to change anything anyway." 

A grey-haired man in glasses and a suit stands in a room in front of the Canadian and the New Brunswick flags. Two years ago, then-public safety minister Ted Flemming said a provincial police force was 'something we should take a hard look at.' (Ed Hunter/CBC)

In December 2021, then-minister Ted Flemming called a provincial police force "something we should take a hard look at" because of complaints about inadequate RCMP services, especially in rural areas.

Flemming called it a complex issue and said the province would be giving up the one third of police funding that the federal government covers when the RCMP polices municipalities.

The province has a 20-year contract with the RCMP for policing most of the province that will end in 2032. 

The Union of Municipalities of New Brunswick called for a review of policing services in 2021 and the provincial government's white paper on local government reform promised such a review.

Municipalities complained about the rising cost of RCMP policing after officers were unionized, as well as a lack of local control and accountability.

The province will spend $125 million on its policing contract with the RCMP this year, an increase of around $24 million this year.

A woman looks at someone off camera. A phone is being held in front of her to record audio. Green MLA Megan Mitton said the province should consider other ways to support local communities, such as with mobile crisis services and social workers. (Patrick Richard/CBC)

That increase, in part, reflects the province absorbing the increase to policing costs so municipalities don't have to pay for it, Austin said. 

"As a provincial government, we said we're not going to download that cost. That cost is something we're going to bear." 

Green MLA Megan Mitton said the province should consider other ways to support local communities, such as with mobile crisis services and social workers. 

"What else is needed in our communities?" she said. "These are policy decisions, and I don't always think we're on the right track with this government." 

But Doherty said communities need more police officers and tougher laws.

"It is not a social problem. It is a behavioural problem and the only way to correct it is with stiffer sentences." 

ABOUT THE AUTHOR


Jacques Poitras

Provincial Affairs reporter

Jacques Poitras has been CBC's provincial affairs reporter in New Brunswick since 2000. He grew up in Moncton and covered Parliament in Ottawa for the New Brunswick Telegraph-Journal. He has reported on every New Brunswick election since 1995 and won awards from the Radio Television Digital News Association, the National Newspaper Awards and Amnesty International. He is also the author of five non-fiction books about New Brunswick politics and history.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices
 
 
  
52 Comments
 
 
 
David Amos
Guess who is about to get an email  
 
 
David Amos  

Why is that I am not surprised that I am being blocked from commenting on this topic? 
 
 
David Amos  
Austin et al know that the war between the RCMP and I began in 1982 and it is ongoing to this very day 
 
 
David Amos  

Anybody remember all the wannabe cops Higgy used to keep us locked down for years? 
 
 
David Amos  
Methinks lots of folks must enjoy watching Higgy's cohorts do the usual flip flop N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
Jack Bell   
"some communities have complained in recent years that they don't feel they've been getting police coverage in line with what they're spending."

Would it not be easier to name the communities who aren't complaining about poor service?

 
David Amos  
Reply to Jack Bell  
Good question 
 
 
G. Timothy Walton 
Reply to Jack Bell    
Belle-Baie.

That's probably about it.

 
 
 
 
 
Jack Bell   
"He later told reporters the transition to a provincial force might have taken a decade and the cost would have been "extremely high," though he didn't have a dollar figure."

Is this like contractors who don't want to do the work quoting astronomical costs and timeframes so they either won't have to do the work or get a huge payday with no strings attached.

 
David Amos  
Reply to Jack Bell 
Kinda like the new jail  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Billy Joe Mcallister 
Higgs has made a few decisions as of late that I am in total agreement with and this is yet another. Our biggest crime problems are not speeders, drunk drivers,or red light runners which is what a provincial police force would no doubt focus on because it's easy and brings in revenue. What we are plagued with in this province is a rash of petty crime, drug use/dealers not to mention the operation of1%er biker gangs. 
 
 
Kyle Woodman 
Reply to Billy Joe Mcallister  
Why they don't go after the OMC's harder is beyond me. I mean they drive around with patches on. It's not hard to figure out. The just opened a club house on the main drag in Shediac. Go after them. 
 
 
Billy Joe Mcallister  
Reply to Kyle Woodman
It's a great question for Premier Higgs and the Hon JA (Ted) Flemming 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Billy Joe Mcallister 
Bingo
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Kyle Woodman
Good luck with that
 
 
 
 
 
 
Ella Dougherty  
In 1978 the government of Premier Richard Hatfield transferred 25 commercial vehicle enforcement officers from the Highway Law Enforcement Division of the provincial Department of Transportation to the provincial Department of Justice. The duties of these officers initially consisted of traffic patrol, commercial vehicle enforcement, enforcement of highway laws such as the Highway Act, Motor Carrier Act and Motor Vehicle Act, seizure of motor vehicle license plates, and escort for oversize loads. These duties were initially carried out between Monday and Friday during daylight hours.

In January 1980 the Highway Law Enforcement Division was renamed the New Brunswick Highway Patrol and the focus changed to policing. Expansion during the early 1980s saw the NBHP expand its coverage to all highways in New Brunswick. Training requirements mandated a law enforcement background and members of the NBHP were peace officers with the same training and responsibilities as other police forces in the province under the Police Act.[1] [2][3] [4]

The NBHP expanded to 114 uniformed officers commanded by a chief and deputy chief and supported by civilian staff at the detachments. NBHP divided the province into two regions with a staff sergeant being responsible for each region. Each detachment was commanded by a sergeant and patrol officers had the rank of constable. There was no rank of corporal.

In July 1988 the recently elected government of Premier Frank McKenna announced that the responsibilities of the NBHP would be contracted to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police "J" Division. The NBHP was abolished effective February 1, 1989. Have no idea as to why they were discontinued. It would be nice to have the NBHP reinstated.

 
David white
Reply to Ella Dougherty
I remember the "Rod"s Rangers " back in the day. If you ever had to deal with them you would know why they were terminated. Their only interest was to lay fines for motor vehicle infractions to justify their budget. It was a great day when they were eliminated. 
 
 
Chris Waddell 
Reply to Ella Dougherty 
Wow NBHP almost forgot about them! Blast from the past! Thanks for that history as well! 
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Chris Waddell
Scroll down  
 
 
Michael Cain
Reply to Ella Dougherty  
Did the NBHP personnel even carry a weapon? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Rosco holt
Policing has always been an issue in the province. Municipalities switch from municipal forces to RCMP, now they want to switch back. 
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Rosco holt
As well they should
 
 
Chuck Gendron
Reply to David Amos
David I was talking about the NBPP (provincial police) not the NBHP. 
 
 
David Amos  

Reply to Chuck Gendron
You would know more if my comments were not blocked 
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Chuck Gendron  
Anyone can go to the library and check out the TJ newspaper from July 17th, 1982  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Chuck Michaels 
(sits back and reaches for the popcorn).... I just LOVE the part in the comments where they say social workers are the answer... mmmmhmmmm 
 
 
David Amos  

Reply to Chuck Michaels
I will trade you some peanuts for some popcorn as we enjoy the circus
 
 
David Amos  

Reply to Chuck Michaels
Do you need some peanuts? 
 
 
 
 
 
Ernesto Rafael 
It has been my observation that corruption runs rampant in local constabularies.  
 
 
Winston Gray 
Reply to Ernesto Rafael 
You haven’t observed anything, that’s just bologna 
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Winston Gray  
I witnessed it personally 
 
 
Stanley Beemish 
Reply to David Amos
You tend to experience a lot of things differently... 
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Stanley Beemish 
True and you know why 




 
 
Rob Franklin  
I'm old enough to remember the NB Highway Patrol
 
 
Chuck Gendron 
Reply to Rob Franklin  
NBPP did exist from 1927 to 1932. 
 
 
Rob Franklin 
Reply to Chuck Gendron  
now now don't give away my age! LOL.
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Chuck Gendron
In January 1980 the Highway Law Enforcement Division was renamed the New Brunswick Highway Patrol and the focus changed to policing. Expansion during the early 1980s saw the NBHP expand its coverage to all highways in New Brunswick. Training requirements mandated a law enforcement background and members of the NBHP were peace officers with the same training and responsibilities as other police forces in the province under the Police Act.

The NBHP expanded to 114 uniformed officers commanded by a chief and deputy chief and supported by civilian staff at the detachments. NBHP divided the province into two regions with a staff sergeant being responsible for each region. Each detachment was commanded by a sergeant and patrol officers had the rank of constable. There was no rank of corporal.

In July 1988 the recently elected government of Premier Frank McKenna announced that the responsibilities of the NBHP would be contracted to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police "J" Division. The NBHP was abolished effective February 1, 1989. 

 
David white
Reply to Rob Franklin
Oh yes I do also. The infamous " Rod's Rangers " that was set up by the Conservatives after the RCMP charged Premier Hatfield for possession of " Mary Jane " during the Queens visit to NB . All they ever did was to lay motor vehicle charges against everybody they could to justify their cost. It was a great day when they were replaced by the RCMP.  
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to David white 
They replaced the RCMP on the highway because of the duality issue not because of Mary Jane whom the liberals made legal  
 
 
David Amos  

Reply to David Amos
Furthermore anyone can go to the library and check out the newspapers from July 1982 to see why the RCMP enlisted me to investigate and testify at a Coroners Inquiry  
 
 
 
 

Province changes course and gives ombud records on new Fredericton jail

Province had refused to give records to ombud for review, claiming they are confidential cabinet documents

That comes after the department initially refused to provide the ombud's office with the records, claiming they're confidential cabinet documents.

After CBC News reported on the refusal on Wednesday, Premier Blaine Higgs said he'd asked the deputy minister and clerk to look into it.

"People are lighting their hair on fire on this and I want to make sure transparency is there as much as possible," Public Safety Minister Kris Austin said on Thursday during a Legislative committee meeting, after Green MLA Megan Mitton asked about the records.

Last year, CBC asked the province for all records that detail the need for a new jail, such as records that discuss the business case for the jail or capacity issues within existing correctional centres.

A long hallway in a provincial jail is pictured. There are several doors to cells with numbers printed on them, and silver lockboxes outside each door. The province refused a right to information request from CBC that asked for records about the decision to build a new jail. The Southeast Regional Correctional Centre in Shediac is pictured here. (CBC News file photo)

The Department of Justice and Public Safety refused to provide any records in response to that request, saying all the records are exempted under sections of the right to information law that protect confidential cabinet documents and advice to a cabinet minister.

CBC appealed the decision to provincial ombud Marie-France Pelletier, whose office handles complaints about right to information.

The government then also refused to provide copies to Pelletier's office, claiming all of the records are protected under cabinet confidences. It's one of only two reasons the law allows the department to not produce records to the ombud for review.

Austin says department followed the law

Austin said the department reversed course and decided to provide the records to the ombud "out of an abundance of transparency." He said his government has never provided a cabinet memorandum to anyone, including the ombud.

"The premier has always been very big on ensuring that the public knows what's going on and that there's no perception out there of trying to hide anything," Austin told reporters.

Austin said the department followed the law when it refused to hand over the records.

But he also said the information has already been released to the public, raising questions about how it could be considered confidential information.

"What I've given you is hard data … here's the capacity levels, here's where we're at  or over capacity, over the last several years," Austin said. 

"What the [memorandum to executive council] is going to give is basically the same thing summarized in a different form."

When asked whether he will follow the ombud's advice if Pelletier determines the records should become public, Austin didn't seem to see any issue, even though his department refused the right to information request.

"If it's the information that we've already been giving, why wouldn't we? There's no extra information there. It's the case around why we need the jail."

Last month, the ombud's office told CBC the records may not have been properly held back, and suggested the department reconsider its decision to not provide the records to CBC.

"Unfortunately, the department was not amenable to changing its minds, and maintained its original position that you are not entitled to access to any records," the ombud's office wrote.

Cost of Fredericton jail now up to $42 million

Austin also told the committee Thursday that the cost of the Fredericton jail is now estimated to be around $42 million, up from the $32 million figure the government gave a year and a half ago.

A spokesperson with the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure told CBC this week that it won't have a better sense of the overall cost until it finishes work to "define the project's requirements."

"I'm not overly concerned that the costs are going to be that exorbitant," Austin said. "You've got to take in inflation, it's the world we live in today. But if that [number] changes, we're going to get it done."

Plans to build a new jail were announced in December 2021.

The expenditure didn't appear in the Progressive Conservative platform from the 2020 provincial election or in the party's 2018 platform. The government has cited rising crime rates and jails stretched to capacity as reasons why the new jail is needed.

As of March 31, Austin said there were 450 men inside provincial jails, which is under the capacity number of 470. Another 18 men were being monitored by ankle bracelets on this date, the minister said.

Money better spent on housing, MLA says

Criminologists who have previously spoken to CBC have argued that building a new jail won't reduce crime or make the public any safer, and the money could be better spent on things like mental health care, addiction and housing. 

A woman looks at someone off camera. A phone is being held in front of her to record audio. Green MLA Megan Mitton pressed Public Safety Minister Kris Austin for more justification around building a new jail. (Patrick Richard/CBC)

In the committee meeting Thursday, Mitton asked Austin to provide more justification for why the government plans to spend at least $42 million to build the jail.

"That's a lot of money," Mitton told reporters.

"We could really use those investments in other things like supporting a housing first approach, so that people who are leaving jail have the supports they need to not end up re-offending."

The department's operating budget for 2022-23 includes $3.7 million for provincial jail programming "designed to help [people] change their lives and avoid re-offending once released."

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Karissa Donkin is a journalist in CBC's Atlantic investigative unit. Do you have a story you want us to investigate? Send your tips to NBInvestigates@CBC.ca.

With files from Jacques Poitras

 
 
 
 
35 Comments
 
 
David Amos  

Oh my another flip flop
 
 
 
Lou Bell
Perhaps Ms. Mitton should look at this years budget . Hundreds of millions extra has already been pegged for all those concerns . How much money do these politicians expect the middle class to pay ? Appears every last dollar they have . 
they have . 
 
 
Winston Gray 
Reply to Lou Bell 
Our tax dollars are meant to be spent on us, that’s what they are collected for.  
 
 
David Amos  
 
Reply to Lou Bell   
Do you think my cousin cares about what you post? 





Lou Bell  
Greens , Liberal/ NDP Party would sooner be reactive , when their plan of hiring many , many more social workers fails , and jails are overcrowded . Much like the Liberal / NDP Party did with the Nurses nthey paid for and of which we got none due to a complete lack of oversight 
 
 
David Amos  
 
Reply to Lou Bell   
Time for a nap?
 
 
 
 
 
Inger Nielsen
Green MLA is 100% right on this  
 
 
Winston Gray
Reply to Inger Nielsen   
It really isn't, the ones in power should be right more than the ones who aren't, and if they have to do something difficult then they have to explain to us and not just keep stuff secret.
 
 
David Amos  
 
Reply to Inger Nielsen 
Say Hey to my cousin from me will ya? She won't talk to me
 
 
 
 
  
Evan Day 
"The premier has always been very big on ensuring that the public knows what's going on and that there's no perception out there of trying to hide anything," Austin told reporters.

That is both laughable and demonstrably untrue.

 
Ronald Miller
Reply to Evan Day
For example?  
 
 
Michael Cain 
Reply to Ronald Miller
This is what the article is about. The request for data on this issue over a year. The only way we find out anything is through the media.
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Evan Day  
C'est Vrai    
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dianne MacPherson  
What's up with all the 'chatter' about building

a new jail ??

Jails are built everyday .

Let's have more "transparency" by acknowledging

the fact that this jail has been unpopular since

it was first announced.

*Politics* at its finest !!!

 
David Amos  
Reply to Dianne MacPherson 
Welcome back to the circus  
 
 
 
 
 
 
G. Timothy Walton  
They actually kept records?
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to G. Timothy Walton 
I doubt it 





Jim Lake
The premier’s and minister’s comments about transparency are laughable … this government has been completely transparent about keeping things secret and hidden from public scrutiny - not transparent and completely unaccountable - with the premier even stating he doesn’t take/make notes and doesn’t have his staffers take notes … he goes out of his way to make sure he doesn’t have to explain anything. Perhaps he’s starting to fear the result at the polls next year if he continues this behaviour. 
 
 
Samual Johnston
Reply to Jim Lake
has this government been less transparent than any previous government? agreed more transparency is needed but is has been for decades...
 
 
Chris Waddell 
Reply to Samual Johnston 
"Transparency" I think has become another political buzz word. Every politician now promises to be "the most open and transparent government"...

Promises, promises....

  
David Amos  
Reply to Jim Lake
Trust that Higgy doesn't care about the polls  
 
 
Kyle Woodman 
Kris Austin would do well to tone down the hyperbole. "People are lighting their hair on fire on this". Really Kris?  
 
 
Ronald Miller
Reply to Kyle Woodman  
Maybe he is referring to the many on these boards, seems he is pretty bang on with that assessment. 
 
 
Kyle Woodman
Reply to Ronald Miller 
Really Ronald?
 
 
David Amos  
 
Reply to Kyle Woodman 
Methinks Austin has something on fire and it ain't his hair N'esy Pas?  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Marcel Belanger 
Austin states ""People are lighting their hair on fire on this"….kinda like his hair was on fire over official bilingualism.

Strange how it’s all good for him to question but alas, not to be questioned by others.

 
David Amos  
Reply to Marcel Belanger
Ditto
 
 
 
 
 
Michael Cain 
Donald Bowser, an international expert on political corruption, says he is "shocked to discover that there is less transparency in New Brunswick than in Kurdistan, Guatemala or Sierra Leone..." 
 
 
Ronald Miller
Reply to Michael Cain
If his agenda is political corruption how in the world does he have enough time to keep up with what is happening in Ottawa. 
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Michael Cain
Say hey to your buddy for me will ya? 
 
 
Michael Cain 
Reply to Ronald Miller
His specialty is Ukraine. I am sure he can share an opinion on anybody
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Graeme Scott 
With regards to capacity....recent news reports from across Canada have highlighted the issue of crimes being committed by offenders accused of earlier crimes and either released on a promise to appear or who have been granted bail. If that issue is addressed there will be a need for increased capacity to hold these people.
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Graeme Scott 
Yup 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Ronald Miller
Well done, no government gets everything right, and many never get anything right (Ottawa), but this one does most things right the first time and will fix mistakes when they happen.

Although the Ombud will receive all the documents some of these documents I still do not believe will be for public consumption, as with many documents and the legislation they come under. Most of the data was already public, this was a a story when there was none.

 
David Amos  
 
Reply to Ronald Miller 
Dream on
 
 
 
 
 
 
Jack Straw 
Unbelievable at how much of government business is confidential and not subject to public review. There is no need for this. 
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Jack Straw
Check out NB Power 
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to David Amos 
In 2019 they commissioned a rather egregious Straw Man Report to be created  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Christine White 
Backtracking is happening often with the PC government.

Walking in someone else’s shoes.

And the Premier said, ….

 
David Amos  
Reply to Christine White 
Methinks some folks call it Higgy's jig one step forward and two steps back N'esy Pas?  
 







 
 

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