Controversial development gets nod from Fredericton city staff, but not planning committee
Cedar Valley Investments wants to build apartments comprising 870 units
Fredericton's planning advisory committee voted unanimously on Wednesday night to recommend city council reject a rezoning application that would allow the construction of at least 870 new housing units on a former farm lot in the city's southwestern corner.
"To see a seven [to] zero vote is very disappointing," said Louie Youssef, president of Cedar Valley Investments, which is behind the proposal.
This past spring, Cedar Valley Investments purchased the 35-acre parcel of land for $6 million, and has since applied to have roughly two-thirds of it rezoned to allow apartment buildings as tall as eight storeys.
The northern end of the property abuts Golf Club Road, while the southern end lies along Prospect Street.
The proposal calls for constructing seven apartment buildings on the southern two-thirds of the property, with those closest to Prospect Street containing commercial units on the ground floor.
The apartment buildings would be built shorter going north along the property, with townhouses and detached homes built on the northern third of the plot.
Cedar
Valley Investments's proposal would see the apartment buildings
constructed on the southern two-thirds of the property, with townhouses
and detached homes on the northern and eastern sides of the property. (City of Fredericton)
The proposal also includes the construction of a street going through the property from Golf Club Road to Prospect Street.
The property for the proposed development is a sizeable chunk of a neighbourhood primarily made up of high-end detached homes. Many residents have taken issue with the proposal, as was seen in at least 35 letters of opposition and concern they filed with the planning advisory committee ahead of the meeting.
George Filliter has a view of the property from his home on Appledorn Lane, and said his main concern is the anticipated increase in traffic that will come with the addition of thousands of new residents to the neighbourhood.
WATCH | Developer says more housing is needed, but neighbour says the location isn't right: 
"I know the proposal has a roundabout at the top of a new road that's going to be built, going on to Prospect Street west, and that's fine for people traveling uptown, but the vast majority of people who work, work downtown," Filliter said.
"I've almost been hit several times by cars driving on [Golf Club] Road as is. The speed limit is not adhered to."
Youssef said there's no denying traffic will increase, but he contends only by "a little bit."
He said the bigger concern he wants neighbours to keep in mind is the housing crisis, which has left people across the country struggling to find a place to live.
George
Filliter lives near the property and is concerned about the increase in
traffic that will come with thousands of potential new residents. (Pat Richard/CBC)
"And in order to solve that housing crisis, I think the residents who were here complaining about the development... have to realize, and I think they do realize, that the only way to solve the problem is to create more housing," Youssef said.
Another adjacent property owned by Cedar Valley Investments was granted a zoning amendment earlier this year, and work is already underway to construct the 147-unit apartment building.
Infrastructure would follow development, says planner
As outlined in a Fredericton staff report issued to the planning advisory committee, city staff believe the proposal meets the intent of the city's growth strategy and municipal plan, with parts of the report referring to it as a "complete community" with a "logical street layout."
And if the proposal were to go forward, it wouldn't come without upgrades to nearby infrastructure, said Matthew Robinson, a planner with the City of Fredericton.
He said those would include upgrades to sewer and storm water drains, as well as a roundabout along Prospect Street and added transit service to the area.
"So we hope that that kind of gets reflected in future budgetary conversations and … we're hoping to again get that infrastructure to a point that's going to be properly servicing the new and existing residents of these areas," Robinson said.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
26 Comments
Mike Barkman
George Filliter was a judge in the Freddy law
courts. His wife is the ex-leader of the Conservative party in the late
90's Barbara Baird Filliter. This is a case of NIMBY, nothing else.
David Carpsel
Reply to Mike Barkman
No, it is a case of a developer turning small residential into high rises
An 8 story building in this area is out of touch with reality
Little transit, nothing with in walking distance, meaning everyone will need to drive to get a simple jug of milk from an Irving
870-unit development for Fredericton's south side narrowly approved
Neighbours had spoken out against housing development, and planning committee also voted it down
The 870-unit development on vacant land between Golf Club Road and Prospect Street is allowed to go ahead after a vote by city council on Tuesday night.
The necessary rezoning, recommended by city staff, needed the support of seven councillors to succeed, since the planning advisory committee had voted down the proposal earlier.
The motion passed 8-3, with Coun. Ruth Breen not in attendance.
Coun. Steven Hicks acknowledged that neighbours' concerns about the project's size were genuine and that approval would mean the area would change.
"It affects those neighbourhoods, but we have to do this for the greater good of our community," Hicks said.
He added that large developments similar to Golf Club Road are being approved elsewhere in the city, and with traffic across the bridges getting worse, it only makes sense to take advantage of limited development opportunities on the city's south side.
"We've got to develop for the next 50 years, not just the next five years," Hicks said.
Fredericton Coun. Steven Hicks supported the proposal, saying it was for the greater good of the city. (Aidan Cox/CBC)
The plan calls for the construction of seven apartment buildings on the southern two-thirds of the property, with those closest to Prospect Street containing commercial units on the ground floor.
The apartment buildings are to be shorter going north along the property, with townhouses and detached homes built on the northern third of the plot.
Cedar Valley Investments, led by president Louie Youssef, purchased the 35-acre parcel last spring for $6 million and applied to council to have part of it rezoned to allow for taller residential buildings.
First and second readings at council were lengthy and included a no vote at the planning advisory committee, public objections being expressed for over three hours at one meeting, and the proposal being sent back to staff.
Louie
Youssef, president of Cedar Valley Investments, was successful in
lobbying council to rezone part of a 35-acre property to build apartment
buildings that would comprise a total of 870 units. (Aidan Cox/CBC)
Council later added conditions to the proposal, including a cap at 950 units and a requirement that the developer work with the city on an anticipated federal housing grant that could possibly see affordable units included in the development.
Before the vote Tuesday night, several councillors, including Eric Megarity, said they were undecided.
But Megarity also said that if council denied the proposal, it could be a "pivotal house of cards" for future development in the city.
"I know there's other projects coming like it, and these same arguments could be used," he said.
3 councillors opposed
Councillors Henri Mallet, Kevin Derrah and Margo Sheppard all voted no on the proposal.
Mallet, whose district includes the development, told council he didn't think the development would add much value to the neighbourhood.
"The current neighbourhood just wants to be respected and engaged throughout the process, and I don't believe this was the case with this process," Mallet said.
He said he supports development but only when it is "good, planned development."
Coun. Henri Mallet, whose district includes Golf Club Road, said the developers weren't respecting the neighbourhood. (Aidan Cox/CBC)
Derrah agreed with Mallet and voiced many concerns about the development in what he called "one of the nicest neighbourhoods in the city."
He said he was concerned the proposal was too car-centric, doesn't plan well enough for water run-off and does not respect the neighbourhood.
Sheppard voiced concerns about increased traffic and a change to the neighbourhood, calling the proposal "too much, too fast for Fredericton."
"I don't view the concerns of the neigbourhood to be NIMBYism, but rather attachment to place and a justified fear of the unknown," Sheppard said.
She tried twice at council to introduce an amendment that would see the city save several butternut trees and see the farmhouse on the property used for affordable housing. It was voted down both times.
Intense campaign against development
There has been a large outcry among residents against the development. A letter-writing campaign focused on councillors supporting the proposal, and more than 150 letters against the project were sent to council.
"I must say, that was probably the most well-organized letter-writing campaign that I've seen," said Coun. Jocelyn Pike.
Several councillors, however, objected to what they considered questionable concerns raised by residents.
Deputy Mayor Greg Ericson said he had been hearing many complaints that infrastructure in the area, particularly transit and roads, were not suitable for such an influx of new residents.
Ericson said this complaint doesn't make sense, because the city doesn't build infrastructure ahead of development.
"We do this stuff after the fact. It's not a failing of the project, it's an element of our process."
Deputy
Mayor Greg Ericson spoke out against residents' concerns about a lack
of transit infrastructure near the development. He said the city doesn't
build infrastructure before a development. (Aidan Cox/CBC)
For Pike, the outcry from residents was for more consultation from the developer, which she said is not required.
"Is it a good practice that he does? Absolutely," Pike said. "But it's not a requirement."
Coun. Bruce Grandy said he took offence when he received complaints that city staff were on the side of the developer.
"That really bothered me. … It's far from the truth, and I'm very disappointed when I saw those."
Cedar
Valley Investments's proposal would see the apartment buildings
constructed on the southern two-thirds of the property, with townhouses
and detached homes on the northern and eastern sides of the property. (City of Fredericton)
He also noted that complaints about the local schools not being large enough to handle so many new residents was misplaced, because schools fall under the province's jurisdiction, not the city's.
If the school needs to grow, that's an issue the city will take up with the school district when it happens, he said.
A motion from Grandy that staff look into traffic-calming measures around the new development was passed unanimously.
After the vote, Mayor Kate Rogers expressed her support for the development and said the city is growing fast.
"And we do not have housing for these people, and we are not going to solve housing with single detached and duplexes," Rogers said.
"We need density, and every part of the city needs to play a part in that."
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
57 Comments
David Amos
Why is it that I am not surprised?
YO Gilles Allain Methinks Drew Brown made an interesting statement out of the gate in the mayoral debate you moderated in Fat Fred City N'esy Pas???
David Amos<david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com> | Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 2:30 AM |
| To: gilles.allain@horizonnb.ca, baikana@aol.com, corinneformayor@gmail.com, Mike4Fredericton@gmail.com, kate@kateformayor.ca, dennis@dennisatchison.com, karenforwardone@gmail.com, margoforcouncil@gmail.com, dutchpeters99@gmail.com, sean@seanwinslow.ca, brucengrandy@gmail.com, troyhaines@gmail.com, antheaplummerforward3@gmail.com, winfrederictonward4@gmail.com, mrericprice@yahoo.ca, denverborelandw5@gmail.com, maeforward6@gmail.com, ian.letourneau@icloud.com, sharonlevesque@yahoo.ca, megarity@nbnet.nb.ca, costelloforcouncil@gmail.com, kevin.darrah@gmail.com, Greg.Ericson@gmail.com, jrpaul1983@gmail.com, scottsmithward8@gmail.com, ruthbreenforward9@gmail.com, chasesa@gmail.com, ward9jeff@gmail.com, al.ja.atkins@gmail.com, hello@cassandraforcitycouncil.com, kelly@ward10kelly.ca, jasonlejeune64@gmail.com, wellsforward11@gmail.com, louieyoussefward11@gmail.com, kandiseforcouncil@gmail.com, info@mallet-ward12.com, moserjanet.e@gmail.com, "blaine.higgs" <blaine.higgs@gnb.ca>, "Jennifer.duggan" <Jennifer.duggan@rcmp-grc.gc.ca>, "Sandra.lofaro" <Sandra.lofaro@rcmp-grc.gc.ca>, premier <premier@gnb.ca>, Barbara.Massey@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, "Barbara.Whitenect" <Barbara.Whitenect@gnb.ca>, "Mike.Comeau" <Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca>, "hugh.flemming" <hugh.flemming@gnb.ca>, jill.green@gnb.ca | |
| Cc: motomaniac333 <motomaniac333@gmail.com>, "Roger.Brown" <Roger.Brown@fredericton.ca>, Mark.Blakely@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, martin.gaudet@fredericton.ca, briangallant10 <briangallant10@gmail.com>, Davidc.Coon@gmail.com, oldmaison@yahoo.com | |
https://www.youtube.com/watch? Thursday, April 22, 2021 - 2021 Fredericton Mayoral Debate 789 views Streamed live on Apr 22, 2021 Rogers tv 60K subscribers The four candidates for the position of Mayor of the City of Fredericton debate the issues, presented by the Fredericton Chamber of Commerce and Rogers tv. https://www1.gnb.ca/Elections/ Fredericton Fredericton Position to fill # Positions to fill # Candidates Status Mayor 1 4 (Election) Councillor Ward 1 1 3 (Election) Councillor Ward 2 1 2 (Election) Councillor Ward 3 1 3 (Election) Councillor Ward 4 1 3 (Election) Councillor Ward 5 1 2 (Election) Councillor Ward 6 1 4 (Election) Councillor Ward 7 1 2 (Election) Councillor Ward 8 1 3 (Election) Councillor Ward 9 1 3 (Election) Councillor Ward 10 1 3 (Election) Councillor Ward 11 1 3 (Election) Councillor Ward 12 1 3 (Election) Position; Name; Incumbent; Acclaimed; Sex; Address for service; Telephone; E-mail; Website Mayor; Drew Brown; ; ; M; 360 ch Forest Hill Rd Unit(e) 366, Fredericton, NB , E3B 0Z2; ; baikana@aol.com ; Mayor; Corinne Hersey; ; ; F; 984 rue Prospect St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2T8; (506)472-2731; corinneformayor@gmail.com ; https://www. Mayor; Mike O'Brien; (inc./sort.); ; M; 362 rue Victoria St Unit(e) 302, Fredericton, NB , E3B 1W6; (506)472-4527; Mike4Fredericton@gmail.com ; https://www.mike4fredericton. Mayor; Kate Rogers; ; ; F; 31 rue Lansdowne St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 1T1; (506)476-4115; kate@kateformayor.ca ; www.kateformayor.ca Councillor Ward 1; Dennis Atchison; ; ; M; 165 rue Burpee St, Fredericton, NB , E3A 1M6; ; dennis@dennisatchison.com ; www.facebook.com/ Councillor Ward 1; Karen Grant; ; ; F; 5 rue Hartt St, Fredericton, NB , E3A 4Z1; (506)459-2746; karenforwardone@gmail.com ; https://facebook.com/ Councillor Ward 1; Margo Sheppard; ; ; F; 984 rue Prospect St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2T8; (506)476-9708; margoforcouncil@gmail.com ; www.MargoForWard1.com Councillor Ward 2; Mark Peters; (inc./sort.); ; M; 15 av Harley Ave, Fredericton, NB , E3G 0J7; (506)262-6275; dutchpeters99@gmail.com ; Councillor Ward 2; Sean Winslow; ; ; M; 110 rue Randolph St, Fredericton, NB , E3G 0H5; ; sean@seanwinslow.ca ; www.seanwinslow.ca Councillor Ward 3; Bruce Grandy; (inc./sort.); ; M; 592 rue Broad St, Fredericton, NB , E3A 2L8; (506)459-5378; brucengrandy@gmail,com ; https://www.facebook.com/ Councillor Ward 3; Troy Haines; ; ; M; 117 av Bird Ave, Fredericton, NB , E3A 2H8; ; troyhaines@gmail.com ; www.avoteforyou.com Councillor Ward 3; Anthea Plummer; ; ; F; 984 rue Prospect St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2T8; ; antheaplummerforward3@gmail. www.antheaplummer.com Councillor Ward 4; Sheldon Currie; ; ; M; 984 rue Prospect St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2T8; ; ; Councillor Ward 4; Jocelyn Pike; ; ; F; 14 cour Grindstone Crt, Fredericton, NB , E3A 1P9; (506)472-4710; winfrederictonward4@gmail.com ; www.jocelynpike.ca Councillor Ward 4; Eric Price; (inc./sort.); ; M; 88 av Douglas Ave Unit(e) 106, Fredericton, NB , E3A 2N7; (506)447-1100; mrericprice@yahoo.ca ; www.ericprice.ca Councillor Ward 5; Denver Boreland; ; ; M; 199B rue Canada St, Fredericton, NB , E3A 3Z9; (506)262-8724; denverborelandw5@gmail.com ; www.denverforcouncil.com Councillor Ward 5; Steve Hicks; (inc./sort.); ; M; 14 cour Cromford Crt, Fredericton, NB , E3A 0C1; ; ; Councillor Ward 6; Maegen Black; ; ; F; 984 rue Prospect St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2T8; (506)282-1695; maeforward6@gmail.com ; https://www.maeforward6.ca Councillor Ward 6; Ian LeTourneau; ; ; M; 61 Watters Dr , Fredericton, NB , E3A 3S9; (506)440-8072; ian.letourneau@icloud.com ; www.facebook.com/ Councillor Ward 6; Sharon Levesque; ; ; F; 338 rue Gibson St, Fredericton, NB , E3A 4E6; (506)262-1602; sharonlevesque@yahoo.ca ; https://www.facebook.com/ Councillor Ward 6; Eric MeGarity; (inc./sort.); ; M; 50 rue Ashfield St, Fredericton, NB , E3A 3E9; (506)471-7101; megarity@nbnet.nb.ca ; Councillor Ward 7; Gail Costello; ; ; F; 984 rue Prospect St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2T8; (506)457-8357; costelloforcouncil@gmail.com ; www.costelloforcouncil.ca Councillor Ward 7; Kevin Darrah; (inc./sort.); ; M; 39 cour Harland Crt, Fredericton, NB , E3B 0E3; (506)449-8024; kevin.darrah@gmail.com ; https://facebook.com/Kevin- Councillor Ward 8; Gregory Ericson; (inc./sort.); ; M; 175 Southampton Dr , Fredericton, NB , E3B 4T5; (506)470-4761; Greg.Ericson@gmail.com ; https://www.facebook.com/ Councillor Ward 8; Joshua Paul; ; ; M; 984 rue Prospect St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2T8; ; jrpaul1983@gmail.com ; Councillor Ward 8; Scott Smith; ; ; M; 136 crois Coventry Cres, Fredericton, NB , E3B 4P5; ; scottsmithward8@gmail.com ; facebook.com/scottsmithward8 Councillor Ward 9; Ruth Breen; ; ; F; 128 rue Montgomery St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2X1; (506)471-9857; ruthbreenforward9@gmail.com ; www.ruthbreen.ca Councillor Ward 9; Stephen A. Chase; (inc./sort.); ; M; 807 rue Mitchell St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 6E8; (506)455-0711; chasesa@gmail.com ; https://www.facebook.com/ Councillor Ward 9; Jeff Shanks; ; ; M; 74 crois Beechwood Cres, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2S8; (506)442-1404; ward9jeff@gmail.com ; https://www.facebook.com/ Councillor Ward 10; Alan J. Atkins; ; ; M; 145 Inglewood Dr , Fredericton, NB , E3B 2K7; (506)476-0819; al.ja.atkins@gmail.com ; Councillor Ward 10; Cassandra M. Blackmore; ; ; F; 223A rue Aberdeen St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 1R6; (506)260-2149; hello@cassandraforcitycouncil. www.cassandraforcitycouncil. Councillor Ward 10; Kelly L. Murray; ; ; F; 55 rue Saunders St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 1N2; ; kelly@ward10kelly.ca ; www.ward10kelly.ca Councillor Ward 11; Jason LeJeune; ; ; M; 64 rue Shore St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 1R2; ; jasonlejeune64@gmail.com ; Councillor Ward 11; David Wells; ; ; M; 98 rue York St Unit(e) 2, Fredericton, NB , E3B 3N5; ; wellsforward11@gmail.com ; Councillor Ward 11; Louie Youssef; ; ; M; 984 rue Prospect St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2T8; ; louieyoussefward11@gmail.com ; www.doityoussef.ca Councillor Ward 12; Kandise Brown; ; ; F; 984 rue Prospect St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2T8; ; kandiseforcouncil@gmail.com ; http://www.kandiseforcouncil. Councillor Ward 12; Henri Mallet; (inc./sort.); ; M; 880 pl Glengarry Pl, Fredericton, NB , E3B 5Z9; (506)440-7655; info@mallet-ward12.com ; www.mallet-ward12.com Councillor Ward 12; Janet Moser; ; ; F; 984 rue Prospect St, Fredericton, NB , E3B 2T8; ; moserjanet.e@gmail.com ; ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail. Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 22:41:47 -0400 Subject: Re: YO Mr Higgs Re My right to MEDICARE and NO MORE false imprisonment Just as I get another bill from Vitalité I hear Horizon want the RCMP to arrest me AGAIN TRUE or FALSE??? To: "blaine.higgs" <blaine.higgs@gnb.ca>, Gerry.Lowe@gnb.ca, "Jennifer.duggan" <Jennifer.duggan@rcmp-grc.gc. <Sandra.lofaro@rcmp-grc.gc.ca> "Roger.Brown" <Roger.Brown@fredericton.ca>, bachfoundation@horizonnb.ca, chalmers.foundation@horizonnb. MelanieDawn.Cameron@horizonnb. bpendrel@xplornet.com, joyvantassel@hotmail.com, mrhfoundation@horizonnb.ca, smhfoundation@horizonnb.ca, 1945smha@gmail.com, SJRH.Foundation@horizonnb.ca, SCCRFoundation@horizonnb.ca, urvhfoundation@horizonnb.ca Cc: motomaniac333 <motomaniac333@gmail.com>, "rob.moore" <rob.moore@parl.gc.ca>, robmoorefundy <robmoorefundy@gmail.com>, votejohnw <votejohnw@gmail.com> https://en.horizonnb.ca/home/ At Horizon Health Network we are extremely appreciative for the support of our Foundations, Auxiliaries, and Alumnae. These organizations provide funding and support for much needed equipment, programs and projects. This support continues to allow Horizon Health Network to provide the best possible patient care. Our volunteers are equally important as they provide much needed emotional support and assist with our patient care by reading, writing, cooking, delivering flowers, or sitting with someone who might not have family nearby. Whichever way you choose to give, your gift is valued and appreciated. Foundations Auxiliaries Alumnae Volunteer Foundations Bennett and Albert County Health Care Foundation Chalmers Regional Hospital Foundation Charlotte County Hospital Foundation Friends of The Moncton Hospital Foundation Grand Manan Hospital Foundation Harvey Community Hospital Foundation Hotel-Dieu of St. Joseph Hospital Foundation Miramichi Regional Hospital Foundation Oromocto Public Hospital Foundation Rexton and Area Health Care Foundation Sackville Memorial Hospital Foundation Saint John Regional Hospital Foundation St. Joseph's Hospital Foundation Stan Cassidy Foundation Sussex Health Care Centre Foundation Tobique Valley Health Care Foundation Upper River Valley Hospital Foundation Wauklehegan Manor/MacLean Memorial Hospital Foundation ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Barbara Massey <Barbara.Massey@rcmp-grc.gc.ca Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 19:30:16 -0500 Subject: Re: YO Mr Higgs Re My right to MEDICARE and NO MORE false imprisonment Just as I get another bill from Vitalité I hear Horizon want the RCMP to arrest me AGAIN TRUE or FALSE??? (Out of Office ) To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail. I am out of the office until Tuesday, February 18 and have intermittent access to Email. For any urgencies, please contact Jennifer Duggan, General Counsel, at 613 825 2981, or my admin assistant, Sandra Lofaro 613 843 3540.. ------------------------------ Je suis absent du bureau jusqu'à mardi 18 février, et j'aurai un accès intermittent aux courriéls. Pour toute urgence,.vous pouvez communiquer avec Jennifer Duggan, Avocate générale, au 613 825 2981, ou avec mon adjointe admin. Sandra Lofaro 613 843 3540. >>> David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail. Methinks it must be because of my recent comments in CBC about your nonsense about emergency Rooms etc N’esy Pas??? Here is just a few that are recorded within my blog etc https://davidraymondamos3. Wednesday, 12 February 2020 Deputy premier must decide whether to fall in line on health-care reforms, Higgs says https://www.cbc.ca/news/ Doctor shortage forces overnight closure at Sackville ER More er closures are possible before hours are permanently reduced on March 11 CBC News · Posted: Feb 13, 2020 11:32 AM AT 57 Comments Commenting is now closed for this story. David Amos Content disabled Go Figure These are obviously not my Tweets but I did run against the lady Chisholm Pothier @chisholmp · Feb 10 The plan hasn’t even been announced yet and it’s already being condemned. We know one thing for sure - we cannot keep delivering Health the way we have. It isn’t sustainable with an aging population and needs have changed with demographic change anyway. #nbpoli /1 Quote Tweet Alaina Lockhart @AlainaLockhart · Feb 9 Premier @BlaineHiggs you can’t grow NB by reducing services in rural areas. NB needs strong rural comms to thrive. The @townofsussex is key to the region. You need to start thinking about the people impacted in your quest to improve the bottom line. https://twitter.com/ David Amos Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: Chisholm Pothier no longer speaks for the government Correct? David Amos Need I say I got a few calls after supper last night and the people who called could tell I was pretty cranky about something? Trust that what I heard on CBC this morning did not help my mood any.. David Amos Methinks the real problem is that Higgy and Flemming can't get enough bilingual folks who want to work within our Health Care System N'esy Pas? David Amos Reply to @David Amos: Methinks everybody knows since the time of Trudeau The Elder New Brunswick has been a great place to grow up and get an education but to find work most of our young ones must head west somewhere on the far side of Quebec. If the truth hurts so be it N'esy Pas? David Amos On CBC this morning I heard our mindless Health Minister direct folks to the emergency room in another province. Methinks we have not heard that last about that N'esy Pas?? Jim Cyr The people of New Brunswick are some of the silliest people in the world. It’s been hilarious to see almost all of them completely turn off their brains and freak out over Higgs’ emergency rooms plan. The people will now vote out the PCs, of course......just as their silly media masters tell them to do. And so the NB medical/fiscal/poverty situation will just get worse and worse and worse than it already is.. You can’t make this kind of stuff up, folks!! Amazing to see. Mind-numbingly predictable and monotonous. It’s like kubuki theater at this point.. BAD kubuki theater.....lol David Amos Reply to @Jim Cyr: Methinks you may be cluing in as to why I call this a circus If you can't find fun in the madness then you will go crazy like they claim I am. Yea I'm crazy alright. Some say I'm crazy like a fox others say I am just another narcissistic fool Hard telling not knowing for sure but one thing is for certain I am having fun laughing at all the people who laughed at me N'esy Pas? However I can be as crazy as i want to be Higgy should ask the shinks in the loonie bin of the DECH what they did with the wiretap tape of the mob that I gave them in 2008 that the RCMP refuse to investigate. Terry Tibbs Reply to @Jim Cyr: Silly? It's just plain "goofy". And once the CONServatives are gone, having been exchanged for the Liberals, the process will repeat itself, over and over. Not one among us able to figure out the only end result is our pocket remain empty. Michael Durant We need to begin serious talks with Doctors Without Boarders David Amos Reply to @Michael durant: Try again That one went over like a lead balloon Ben Haroldson Reply to @Michael durant: borders Yves Savoie Get your popcorn ready!!! The circus has begun.... David Amos Reply to @Yves Savoie: Wanna trade some of your popcorn for peanuts? Methinks Trump and everybody knows I have been enjoying the circuses on both sides of the 49th for many years from the peanut galley. Trump's minions know that just before July 4th, 2002 within a statement of Claim against an incredible number of Yankee lawyers I promised that I would run in the next Election in Canada. I have remained true to my word and have run 7 times thus far. I joined the clowns in the centre ring no only to to add my two bits worth and but to witness the high diving acts up close and personal. Trust that Harper and Higgy et al know that i dearly love the splash just my kids and I did at Sea World a long long time ago N'esy Pas? Ben Haroldson Reply to @David Amos: Kudos to that, and if you were in my riding you would get my vote, fed or prov. Lou Bell Reply to @Ben Haroldson: That would give him 14 votes Lou Bell Reply to @David Amos: " Methinks trumps and everybody knows I have been enjoy.. .... ...... " !!! You really think trump knows who you are ?? Seriously ??????????? David Amos Reply to @Lou Bell: Do you want his lawyers cell number? David Amos Reply to @Lou Bell: Better yet do you want me to give them yours so you can say hey to your Yankee heroes who locked me up in 2004? David Amos Reply to @Ben Haroldson: Thanks for the vote of confidence Ben Haroldson The Doctors are just helping to move things along. No sense waffling if things are that dire. David Amos Reply to @Ben Haroldson: So you say Terry Tibbs What do you *think*? Coincidence, or not? David Amos Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Methinks we all know the wicked game by now N'esy Pas? David Amos Reply to @David Amos: BTW I was born in the Sackville Hospital in 1952 and it saved my butt 3 years later when I went into a coma for a month. Methinks for that reason alone I should raise hell to defend it. Methinks it should be rather obvious that I quite simply don't care what my cousin Megan Mitton and all her Green Party pals say or do about it N'esy Pas? Holly Mossing Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Not coincidence: ERs and Labour and Delivery units have been randomly closing for years due to staffing issues. That’s part of the problem, and this move will be part of the solution. Government being responsible by listening to the health authorities. SarahRose Werner How is the pool of doctors who provide nighttime ER coverage supplied? Are these doctors who also work day jobs? Does staffing the ER overnight make doctors less accessible to patients who seek service during the day? Elaine MacDonald Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Overnight Doctors come from the family practice doctors; so while some work the ER during the day, those who work nights will also work office hours during the day before their night shift starts. After midnight, the ER is emergencies only, so you will be triaged by a nurse, then depending on the triage, you may or may not see a doctor. This Friday, from how it seems, there will be no doctor at all; I'm not sure if a tirage nurse will assess people however. SarahRose Werner Reply to @Elaine MacDonald: Apparently not, because the ER will be closed entirely. Which makes sense because triage is a sorting procedure, not a treatment procedure. The word "triage" comes from the process of sorting battlefield patients into three levels: those will recover even without treatment, those who will even if treated and those for whom treatment will make a difference. If there's no one available to provide treatment, there's no point doing triage. SarahRose Werner Reply to @Elaine MacDonald: "Overnight Doctors come from the family practice doctors; so while some work the ER during the day, those who work nights will also work office hours during the day before their night shift starts." - I'm not surprised that doctors who've already worked during the day are averse to taking overnight shifts as well. Terry Tibbs Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Why would they be "adverse"? If the "stories" told to us are true, after supper the family practice doctor heads out to the ER for 7pm, taking paperwork, or reading material, to catch up on. Right around maybe 10, or 11pm they pull up a bed and have a snooze, because there "might" be only 5 patients overnight, (this is "the claim") maybe only one needing his/her attention, so the nurse can wake him/her up as required. 7am the shift ends, doctor leaves fully rested,12 hours pay richer. In some cases, if the doctor lives real close, they go home, coming in only if needed. Holly Mossing Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Yes, it does, which is part of the problem. These are great shifts for doctors to pick up (quiet and pay very well), but don’t help the health of local people overall because the doc may see 5 urgent patients overnight but not be able to work at see *25* the next day. That’s a big capacity issue. David Amos Reply to @Elaine MacDonald: Its a pity that nobody in Sackville would listen to me this week David Amos Reply to @David Amos: However I will disclose that the Office of the CEO of one of our Health Care systems called me a few days before Flemming's big announcement in order to reach an understanding as to why I am going to file a lawsuitin order to get my Medicare Card and other things. I have heard nothing but crickets since. Methinks they think I am bluffing Others know I am not N'esy Pas? Ian Scott It would help if the management would outline what it takes to have an ER open 24/7. I do not think a lot of the public has a clue as to what it means to open an ER to all comers and the staff then needed to cover all reasonable issues. You cannot confuse the public and ambulances etc where to go each night if staffing gets short. It makes it worse. If you staff with general practice then they must have extended training in ER issues. Otherwise the next thing is the complaint that things were not done . Then comes the standard equipment needed for stroke trauma etc, like CT scanners etc. Even appendectomy becomes an issue without ultrasound or CT. Its really a standard of practice and it requires a service level that is very difficult to reach in small centers. Otherwise you just end up shipping people out again and delaying diagnostics and the right treatment, some of which are time related. Would you want surgery for something that is not needed? Or have blood thinners given when you actually have a brain bleed etc. SarahRose Werner Reply to @Ian Scott: One thing I've been reading in comments on stories on this issue is that people mention being "stabilized" in a smaller centre before being shipped out to a larger one. Not being a medical professional, I don't know what resources and skills are required to "stabilize" patients. Is this something that could be achieved in some other way, for example, by expanded and improved paramedic service? Ian Scott Reply to @SarahRose Werner: That is the care in bigger centers, well trained paramedics to stabilize at site and transport. Still most stroke issues need CT before treatment. Heart issues may be "stabilized" with drugs etc but transfer really is key for assessment . Trauma , (major) , needs a trauma center. I am not sure how many paramedics can intubate in the field at this point in NB but even an acute asthma or allergic issue might need it. Its what has been suggested. The numbers are small in many of these towns.Even having those staff may prove difficult down the road. Helicopter Air ambulance is another issue, complex and expensive but out there. Freddy is a trauma center for a certain level , but even it only has a snowfield for landing. SarahRose Werner Reply to @Ian Scott: Okay, so if someone has a heart attack, acute allergic attack, stroke, etc. in Sussex in the middle of the night and that person needs some sort of immediate treatment to tide them over until they get to the Saint John Regional, how is that provided? To me, that's the crux of the issue here. I agree that 24/7 ER service in all locations is not the answer. What are other possible answers? Elaine MacDonald Reply to @SarahRose Werner: In that situation, the patient will be sent on to Saint John/Moncton (not sure which hospital in regards to Sussex) regardless if they are stable or not. SarahRose Werner Reply to @Elaine MacDonald: Are there increased to the patient if they're sent on without stabilization? What are those? What will be done to ameliorate those risks? Holly Mossing Reply to @SarahRose Werner: There is a great study on this that showed that cardiac patients who were “stabilized” at a small center then transferred had worse outcomes and a higher death rate than patients who bypassed their local ER and were brought directly to where they could receive specialized care, for example. ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ paramedics need to be normalized in New Brunswick and supported to make health care as safe as possible. I’ve never voted Conservative but in this case Higgs’ government is doing absolutely the responsible thing. We need to make sure they follow through with increased daytime services. David Amos Content disabled Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Methinks you must have read some of my comments N'esy Pas? David Amos Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Hmmmm Donald Smith There has to be a reason, or reasons why NB Cannot attract them ??????? Mack Leigh Reply to @Donald Smith: There definitely is however no one is allowed to talk about the " Elephant " in the room. Ian Scott Reply to @Mack Leigh: Major centers are not really having that issue except for OR constraints for time for some specialists and no beds because of acute care bed blockers. Bathurst has excellent docs as does Edmonston and they are better at language issues than the south. Freddy and SJ and the Moncton centers also attract excellent staff. Its in between that is the issue , and medicine has changed , as have expectations and the standard of care. An ER is just that , all comers, not a clinic. One has to meet rigid standards of care. And those are hard to meet in 4k population or less towns and villages. Aging issues are one of the biggest issues and its being met poorly. Billing numbers are a thing of the past so not in the question. There could certainly be some concern I suppose of young docs worried about potential language issues but low. Elaine MacDonald Reply to @Ian Scott: What people seem to forget is that Sackville, while a population of 5000 including Mt. Allison students, also services Dorchester, Memramcook, Port Elgin, Murry Corner as well as we get patients from the Cape like Cocagne, Cap Pele, Shediac. We've had people from Moncton and surrounding area come to our hospital in increasing numbers over the past two years, even as far as Anagance, AND we get people from NS as well like River Hebert and Amherst. It isn't just NB, but NS we serve too. So no, we don't have a 4K or less patient possibility, we have much more than that. SarahRose Werner Reply to @Elaine MacDonald: Then maybe NS would like to contribute some money to pay for overnight service at the ER. Terry Tibbs Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Don't you believe for a moment they don't. Show an out of province medicare card at a NB hospital and the eyes light up like a one armed bandit hitting a jackpot. David Amos Reply to @Donald Smith: Everybody knows the reasons David Amos Reply to @Mack Leigh: I do Brian Robertson This is just the logical next step in the deterioration of healthcare under the thumb of a government administered monopoly. When you have no money and no Doctors and costs are still increasing because all your workers are members of public service unions that can hold the public hostage; what else can happen? The viability of single payer healthcare is based on the metering of services in order to control costs. Public needs and individual abilities to pay simply do not factor into the equation. Terry Tibbs Reply to @Brian Robertson: Hold the phone, Just STOP, and *think* for a moment, you have been misdirected just like you are supposed to be. EVERY other province, or territory, has "evil" union belonging health professionals, this is not a NB only "thing". We are supposed to be short of 100, maybe 200, health professionals needed per capita (a different number pops out whenever those in charge are asked). We know the pay and benefits in NB are "short" hence the shortage of health professionals. Yet the cost of healthcare is higher (per capita) than every other province, or territory. So, either EVERYONE in NB is constantly sick, or the extra cost is somewhere else other than with the health professionals. I respectfully *think* you should be looking elsewhere. Brian Robertson Reply to @Terry Tibbs: All Provincial healthcare systems are following the same pattern decline; except possibly Quebec who enjoys a lucrative infusion of Federal transfer payments annually. New Brunswick just seems to be ahead of the curve in terms of declining services and wait times. There is more than enough blame to go around for this spiral trip around the drain. Yes, and that includes your healthcare professionals. David Amos Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Methinks he knows you are correct Quebec is a UNILINGUAL Province Hence its costs are less N'esy Pas? John Pokiok There you have it no Doctor wants to live in rural setting it's a hard core fact. Ian Scott Reply to @John Pokiok: Thats not really true. Being an ER doc is a different fish from a GP office setting. It requires an extension of training.If you open an ER then you have every issue from Intubation to trauma to poisoning, heart attack stroke, delivery etc. ER trained docs are a separate entity . You are asking a GP to be everything and have little backup and extended hours and then have a practice in the community. It takes a serious block of staff to do this around the clock. And to have surgical backups for obstetrics etc.And to then live in communities with 4K people is not easy. David Amos Reply to @John Pokiok: Many do when they retire Elaine MacDonald Reply to @John Pokiok: And yet we just had *2* doctors from US background move to Sackville to practice. It's not a matter of no doctors wanting to move to rural areas. David Amos Reply to @Elaine MacDonald: Maybe they are willing to cover the midnight shift ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "MinFinance / FinanceMin (FIN)" <fin.minfinance-financemin. Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 17:55:17 +0000 Subject: RE: YO Tom Freda Say Hey Sylvie Gadoury the General Counsel of CBC for me will ya? To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail. The Department of Finance acknowledges receipt of your electronic correspondence. Please be assured that we appreciate receiving your comments. Le ministère des Finances accuse réception de votre correspondance électronique. Soyez assuré(e) que nous apprécions recevoir vos commentaires. > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Justice Website <JUSTWEB@novascotia.ca> > Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:21:11 +0000 > Subject: Emails to Department of Justice and Province of Nova Scotia > To: "motomaniac333@gmail.com" <motomaniac333@gmail.com> > > Mr. Amos, > We acknowledge receipt of your recent emails to the Deputy Minister of > Justice and lawyers within the Legal Services Division of the > Department of Justice respecting a possible claim against the Province > of Nova Scotia. Service of any documents respecting a legal claim > against the Province of Nova Scotia may be served on the Attorney > General at 1690 Hollis Street, Halifax, NS. Please note that we will > not be responding to further emails on this matter. > > Department of Justice > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: David Amos motomaniac333@gmail.com >> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:32:09 -0400 >> Subject: Attn Integrity Commissioner Alexandre Deschênes, Q.C., >> To: coi@gnb.ca >> Cc: david.raymond.amos@gmail.com >> >> Good Day Sir >> >> After I heard you speak on CBC I called your office again and managed >> to speak to one of your staff for the first time >> >> Please find attached the documents I promised to send to the lady who >> answered the phone this morning. Please notice that not after the Sgt >> at Arms took the documents destined to your office his pal Tanker >> Malley barred me in writing with an "English" only document. >> >> These are the hearings and the dockets in Federal Court that I >> suggested that you study closely. >> >> This is the docket in Federal Court >> >> http://cas-cdc-www02.cas-satj. >> >> These are digital recordings of the last three hearings >> >> Dec 14th https://archive.org/details/ >> >> January 11th, 2016 https://archive.org/details/ >> >> April 3rd, 2017 >> >> https://archive.org/details/ >> >> >> This is the docket in the Federal Court of Appeal >> >> http://cas-cdc-www02.cas-satj. >> >> >> The only hearing thus far >> >> May 24th, 2017 >> >> https://archive.org/details/ >> >> >> This Judge understnds the meaning of the word Integrity >> >> Date: 20151223 >> >> Docket: T-1557-15 >> >> Fredericton, New Brunswick, December 23, 2015 >> >> PRESENT: The Honourable Mr. Justice Bell >> >> BETWEEN: >> >> DAVID RAYMOND AMOS >> >> Plaintiff >> >> and >> >> HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN >> >> Defendant >> >> ORDER >> >> (Delivered orally from the Bench in Fredericton, New Brunswick, on >> December 14, 2015) >> >> The Plaintiff seeks an appeal de novo, by way of motion pursuant to >> the Federal Courts Rules (SOR/98-106), from an Order made on November >> 12, 2015, in which Prothonotary Morneau struck the Statement of Claim >> in its entirety. >> >> At the outset of the hearing, the Plaintiff brought to my attention a >> letter dated September 10, 2004, which he sent to me, in my then >> capacity as Past President of the New Brunswick Branch of the Canadian >> Bar Association, and the then President of the Branch, Kathleen Quigg, >> (now a Justice of the New Brunswick Court of Appeal). In that letter >> he stated: >> >> As for your past President, Mr. Bell, may I suggest that you check the >> work of Frank McKenna before I sue your entire law firm including you. >> You are your brother’s keeper. >> >> Frank McKenna is the former Premier of New Brunswick and a former >> colleague of mine at the law firm of McInnes Cooper. In addition to >> expressing an intention to sue me, the Plaintiff refers to a number of >> people in his Motion Record who he appears to contend may be witnesses >> or potential parties to be added. Those individuals who are known to >> me personally, include, but are not limited to the former Prime >> Minister of Canada, The Right Honourable Stephen Harper; former >> Attorney General of Canada and now a Justice of the Manitoba Court of >> Queen’s Bench, Vic Toews; former member of Parliament Rob Moore; >> former Director of Policing Services, the late Grant Garneau; former >> Chief of the Fredericton Police Force, Barry McKnight; former Staff >> Sergeant Danny Copp; my former colleagues on the New Brunswick Court >> of Appeal, Justices Bradley V. Green and Kathleen Quigg, and, retired >> Assistant Commissioner Wayne Lang of the Royal Canadian Mounted >> Police. >> >> In the circumstances, given the threat in 2004 to sue me in my >> personal capacity and my past and present relationship with many >> potential witnesses and/or potential parties to the litigation, I am >> of the view there would be a reasonable apprehension of bias should I >> hear this motion. See Justice de Grandpré’s dissenting judgment in >> Committee for Justice and Liberty et al v National Energy Board et al, >> [1978] 1 SCR 369 at p 394 for the applicable test regarding >> allegations of bias. In the circumstances, although neither party has >> requested I recuse myself, I consider it appropriate that I do so. >> >> >> AS A RESULT OF MY RECUSAL, THIS COURT ORDERS that the Administrator of >> the Court schedule another date for the hearing of the motion. There >> is no order as to costs. >> >> “B. Richard Bell” >> Judge >> >> >> Below after the CBC article about your concerns (I made one comment >> already) you will find the text of just two of many emails I had sent >> to your office over the years since I first visited it in 2006. >> >> I noticed that on July 30, 2009, he was appointed to the the Court >> Martial Appeal Court of Canada Perhaps you should scroll to the >> bottom of this email ASAP and read the entire Paragraph 83 of my >> lawsuit now before the Federal Court of Canada? >> >> "FYI This is the text of the lawsuit that should interest Trudeau the >> most >> >> >> ---------- Original message ---------- >> From: justin.trudeau.a1@parl.gc.ca >> Date: Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 8:18 PM >> Subject: Réponse automatique : RE My complaint against the CROWN in >> Federal Court Attn David Hansen and Peter MacKay If you planning to >> submit a motion for a publication ban on my complaint trust that you >> dudes are way past too late >> To: david.raymond.amos@gmail.com >> >> Veuillez noter que j'ai changé de courriel. Vous pouvez me rejoindre à >> lalanthier@hotmail.com >> >> Pour rejoindre le bureau de M. Trudeau veuillez envoyer un courriel à >> tommy.desfosses@parl.gc.ca >> >> Please note that I changed email address, you can reach me at >> lalanthier@hotmail.com >> >> To reach the office of Mr. Trudeau please send an email to >> tommy.desfosses@parl.gc.ca >> >> Thank you, >> >> Merci , >> >> >> http://davidraymondamos3. >> >> >> 83. The Plaintiff states that now that Canada is involved in more war >> in Iraq again it did not serve Canadian interests and reputation to >> allow Barry Winters to publish the following words three times over >> five years after he began his bragging: >> >> January 13, 2015 >> This Is Just AS Relevant Now As When I wrote It During The Debate >> >> December 8, 2014 >> Why Canada Stood Tall! >> >> Friday, October 3, 2014 >> Little David Amos’ “True History Of War” Canadian Airstrikes And >> Stupid Justin Trudeau >> >> Canada’s and Canadians free ride is over. Canada can no longer hide >> behind Amerka’s and NATO’s skirts. >> >> When I was still in Canadian Forces then Prime Minister Jean Chretien >> actually committed the Canadian Army to deploy in the second campaign >> in Iraq, the Coalition of the Willing. This was against or contrary to >> the wisdom or advice of those of us Canadian officers that were >> involved in the initial planning phases of that operation. There were >> significant concern in our planning cell, and NDHQ about of the dearth >> of concern for operational guidance, direction, and forces for >> operations after the initial occupation of Iraq. At the “last minute” >> Prime Minister Chretien and the Liberal government changed its mind. >> The Canadian government told our amerkan cousins that we would not >> deploy combat troops for the Iraq campaign, but would deploy a >> Canadian Battle Group to Afghanistan, enabling our amerkan cousins to >> redeploy troops from there to Iraq. The PMO’s thinking that it was >> less costly to deploy Canadian Forces to Afghanistan than Iraq. But >> alas no one seems to remind the Liberals of Prime Minister Chretien’s >> then grossly incorrect assumption. Notwithstanding Jean Chretien’s >> incompetence and stupidity, the Canadian Army was heroic, >> professional, punched well above it’s weight, and the PPCLI Battle >> Group, is credited with “saving Afghanistan” during the Panjway >> campaign of 2006. >> >> What Justin Trudeau and the Liberals don’t tell you now, is that then >> Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chretien committed, and deployed the >> Canadian army to Canada’s longest “war” without the advice, consent, >> support, or vote of the Canadian Parliament. >> >> What David Amos and the rest of the ignorant, uneducated, and babbling >> chattering classes are too addled to understand is the deployment of >> less than 75 special operations troops, and what is known by planners >> as a “six pac cell” of fighter aircraft is NOT the same as a >> deployment of a Battle Group, nor a “war” make. >> >> The Canadian Government or The Crown unlike our amerkan cousins have >> the “constitutional authority” to commit the Canadian nation to war. >> That has been recently clearly articulated to the Canadian public by >> constitutional scholar Phillippe Legasse. What Parliament can do is >> remove “confidence” in The Crown’s Government in a “vote of >> non-confidence.” That could not happen to the Chretien Government >> regarding deployment to Afghanistan, and it won’t happen in this >> instance with the conservative majority in The Commons regarding a >> limited Canadian deployment to the Middle East. >> >> President George Bush was quite correct after 911 and the terror >> attacks in New York; that the Taliban “occupied” and “failed state” >> Afghanistan was the source of logistical support, command and control, >> and training for the Al Quaeda war of terror against the world. The >> initial defeat, and removal from control of Afghanistan was vital and >> >> P.S. Whereas this CBC article is about your opinion of the actions of >> the latest Minister Of Health trust that Mr Boudreau and the CBC have >> had my files for many years and the last thing they are is ethical. >> Ask his friends Mr Murphy and the RCMP if you don't believe me. >> >> Subject: >> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:02:35 -0400 >> From: "Murphy, Michael B. \(DH/MS\)" MichaelB.Murphy@gnb.ca >> To: motomaniac_02186@yahoo.com >> >> January 30, 2007 >> >> WITHOUT PREJUDICE >> >> Mr. David Amos >> >> Dear Mr. Amos: >> >> This will acknowledge receipt of a copy of your e-mail of December 29, >> 2006 to Corporal Warren McBeath of the RCMP. >> >> Because of the nature of the allegations made in your message, I have >> taken the measure of forwarding a copy to Assistant Commissioner Steve >> Graham of the RCMP “J” Division in Fredericton. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Honourable Michael B. Murphy >> Minister of Health >> >> CM/cb >> >> >> Warren McBeath warren.mcbeath@rcmp-grc.gc.ca wrote: >> >> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:34:53 -0500 >> From: "Warren McBeath" warren.mcbeath@rcmp-grc.gc.ca >> To: kilgoursite@ca.inter.net, MichaelB.Murphy@gnb.ca, >> nada.sarkis@gnb.ca, wally.stiles@gnb.ca, dwatch@web.net, >> motomaniac_02186@yahoo.com >> CC: ottawa@chuckstrahl.com, riding@chuckstrahl.com,John. >> Oda.B@parl.gc.ca,"Bev BUSSON" bev.busson@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, >> "Paul Dube" PAUL.DUBE@rcmp-grc.gc.ca >> Subject: Re: Remember me Kilgour? Landslide Annie McLellan has >> forgotten me but the crooks within the RCMP have not >> >> Dear Mr. Amos, >> >> Thank you for your follow up e-mail to me today. I was on days off >> over the holidays and returned to work this evening. Rest assured I >> was not ignoring or procrastinating to respond to your concerns. >> >> As your attachment sent today refers from Premier Graham, our position >> is clear on your dead calf issue: Our forensic labs do not process >> testing on animals in cases such as yours, they are referred to the >> Atlantic Veterinary College in Charlottetown who can provide these >> services. If you do not choose to utilize their expertise in this >> instance, then that is your decision and nothing more can be done. >> >> As for your other concerns regarding the US Government, false >> imprisonment and Federal Court Dates in the US, etc... it is clear >> that Federal authorities are aware of your concerns both in Canada >> the US. These issues do not fall into the purvue of Detachment >> and policing in Petitcodiac, NB. >> >> It was indeed an interesting and informative conversation we had on >> December 23rd, and I wish you well in all of your future endeavors. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Warren McBeath, Cpl. >> GRC Caledonia RCMP >> Traffic Services NCO >> Ph: (506) 387-2222 >> Fax: (506) 387-4622 >> E-mail warren.mcbeath@rcmp-grc.gc.ca >> >> >> >> Alexandre Deschênes, Q.C., >> Office of the Integrity Commissioner >> Edgecombe House, 736 King Street >> Fredericton, N.B. CANADA E3B 5H1 >> tel.: 506-457-7890 >> fax: 506-444-5224 >> e-mail:coi@gnb.ca >> > > > On 8/3/17, David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com> wrote: > >> If want something very serious to download and laugh at as well Please >> Enjoy and share real wiretap tapes of the mob >> >> http://thedavidamosrant. >> ilian.html >> >>> http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ >>> >>> As the CBC etc yap about Yankee wiretaps and whistleblowers I must >>> ask them the obvious question AIN'T THEY FORGETTING SOMETHING???? >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch? >>> >>> What the hell does the media think my Yankee lawyer served upon the >>> USDOJ right after I ran for and seat in the 39th Parliament baseball >>> cards? >>> >>> http://archive.org/details/ >>> 6 >>> >>> http://davidamos.blogspot.ca/ >>> >>> http://www.archive.org/ >>> >>> http://archive.org/details/ >>> >>> FEDERAL EXPRES February 7, 2006 >>> Senator Arlen Specter >>> United States Senate >>> Committee on the Judiciary >>> 224 Dirksen Senate Office Building >>> Washington, DC 20510 >>> >>> Dear Mr. Specter: >>> >>> I have been asked to forward the enclosed tapes to you from a man >>> named, David Amos, a Canadian citizen, in connection with the matters >>> raised in the attached letter. >>> >>> Mr. Amos has represented to me that these are illegal FBI wire tap >>> tapes. >>> >>> I believe Mr. Amos has been in contact with you about this previously. >>> >>> Very truly yours, >>> Barry A. Bachrach >>> Direct telephone: (508) 926-3403 >>> Direct facsimile: (508) 929-3003 >>> Email: bbachrach@bowditch.com >>> >> > > http://davidraymondamos3. > > > Sunday, 19 November 2017 > Federal Court of Appeal Finally Makes The BIG Decision And Publishes > It Now The Crooks Cannot Take Back Ticket To Try Put My Matter Before > The Supreme Court > > https://decisions.fct-cf.gc. > > > Federal Court of Appeal Decisions > > Amos v. Canada > Court (s) Database > > Federal Court of Appeal Decisions > Date > > 2017-10-30 > Neutral citation > > 2017 FCA 213 > File numbers > > A-48-16 > Date: 20171030 > > Docket: A-48-16 > Citation: 2017 FCA 213 > CORAM: > > WEBB J.A. > NEAR J.A. > GLEASON J.A. > > > BETWEEN: > DAVID RAYMOND AMOS > Respondent on the cross-appeal > (and formally Appellant) > and > HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN > Appellant on the cross-appeal > (and formerly Respondent) > Heard at Fredericton, New Brunswick, on May 24, 2017. > Judgment delivered at Ottawa, Ontario, on October 30, 2017. > REASONS FOR JUDGMENT BY: > > THE COURT > > > > Date: 20171030 > > Docket: A-48-16 > Citation: 2017 FCA 213 > CORAM: > > WEBB J.A. > NEAR J.A. > GLEASON J.A. > > > BETWEEN: > DAVID RAYMOND AMOS > Respondent on the cross-appeal > (and formally Appellant) > and > HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN > Appellant on the cross-appeal > (and formerly Respondent) > REASONS FOR JUDGMENT BY THE COURT > > I. Introduction > > [1] On September 16, 2015, David Raymond Amos (Mr. Amos) > filed a 53-page Statement of Claim (the Claim) in Federal Court > against Her Majesty the Queen (the Crown). Mr. Amos claims $11 million > in damages and a public apology from the Prime Minister and Provincial > Premiers for being illegally barred from accessing parliamentary > properties and seeks a declaration from the Minister of Public Safety > that the Canadian Government will no longer allow the Royal Canadian > Mounted Police (RCMP) and Canadian Forces to harass him and his clan > (Claim at para. 96). > > [2] On November 12, 2015 (Docket T-1557-15), by way of a > motion brought by the Crown, a prothonotary of the Federal Court (the > Prothonotary) struck the Claim in its entirety, without leave to > amend, on the basis that it was plain and obvious that the Claim > disclosed no reasonable claim, the Claim was fundamentally vexatious, > and the Claim could not be salvaged by way of further amendment (the > Prothontary’s Order). > > > [3] On January 25, 2016 (2016 FC 93), by way of Mr. > Amos’ appeal from the Prothonotary’s Order, a judge of the Federal > Court (the Judge), reviewing the matter de novo, struck all of Mr. > Amos’ claims for relief with the exception of the claim for damages > for being barred by the RCMP from the New Brunswick legislature in > 2004 (the Federal Court Judgment). > > > [4] Mr. Amos appealed and the Crown cross-appealed the > Federal Court Judgment. Further to the issuance of a Notice of Status > Review, Mr. Amos’ appeal was dismissed for delay on December 19, 2016. > As such, the only matter before this Court is the Crown’s > cross-appeal. > > > II. Preliminary Matter > > [5] Mr. Amos, in his memorandum of fact and law in > relation to the cross-appeal that was filed with this Court on March > 6, 2017, indicated that several judges of this Court, including two of > the judges of this panel, had a conflict of interest in this appeal. > This was the first time that he identified the judges whom he believed > had a conflict of interest in a document that was filed with this > Court. In his notice of appeal he had alluded to a conflict with > several judges but did not name those judges. > > [6] Mr. Amos was of the view that he did not have to > identify the judges in any document filed with this Court because he > had identified the judges in various documents that had been filed > with the Federal Court. In his view the Federal Court and the Federal > Court of Appeal are the same court and therefore any document filed in > the Federal Court would be filed in this Court. This view is based on > subsections 5(4) and 5.1(4) of the Federal Courts Act, R.S.C., 1985, > c. F-7: > > > 5(4) Every judge of the Federal Court is, by virtue of his or her > office, a judge of the Federal Court of Appeal and has all the > jurisdiction, power and authority of a judge of the Federal Court of > Appeal. > […] > > 5(4) Les juges de la Cour fédérale sont d’office juges de la Cour > d’appel fédérale et ont la même compétence et les mêmes pouvoirs que > les juges de la Cour d’appel fédérale. > […] > 5.1(4) Every judge of the Federal Court of Appeal is, by virtue of > that office, a judge of the Federal Court and has all the > jurisdiction, power and authority of a judge of the Federal Court. > > 5.1(4) Les juges de la Cour d’appel fédérale sont d’office juges de la > Cour fédérale et ont la même compétence et les mêmes pouvoirs que les > juges de la Cour fédérale. > > > [7] However, these subsections only provide that the > judges of the Federal Court are also judges of this Court (and vice > versa). It does not mean that there is only one court. If the Federal > Court and this Court were one Court, there would be no need for this > section. > [8] Sections 3 and 4 of the Federal Courts Act provide that: > 3 The division of the Federal Court of Canada called the Federal Court > — Appeal Division is continued under the name “Federal Court of > Appeal” in English and “Cour d’appel fédérale” in French. It is > continued as an additional court of law, equity and admiralty in and > for Canada, for the better administration of the laws of Canada and as > a superior court of record having civil and criminal jurisdiction. > > 3 La Section d’appel, aussi appelée la Cour d’appel ou la Cour d’appel > fédérale, est maintenue et dénommée « Cour d’appel fédérale » en > français et « Federal Court of Appeal » en anglais. Elle est maintenue > à titre de tribunal additionnel de droit, d’equity et d’amirauté du > Canada, propre à améliorer l’application du droit canadien, et > continue d’être une cour supérieure d’archives ayant compétence en > matière civile et pénale. > 4 The division of the Federal Court of Canada called the Federal Court > — Trial Division is continued under the name “Federal Court” in > English and “Cour fédérale” in French. It is continued as an > additional court of law, equity and admiralty in and for Canada, for > the better administration of the laws of Canada and as a superior > court of record having civil and criminal jurisdiction. > > 4 La section de la Cour fédérale du Canada, appelée la Section de > première instance de la Cour fédérale, est maintenue et dénommée « > Cour fédérale » en français et « Federal Court » en anglais. Elle est > maintenue à titre de tribunal additionnel de droit, d’equity et > d’amirauté du Canada, propre à améliorer l’application du droit > canadien, et continue d’être une cour supérieure d’archives ayant > compétence en matière civile et pénale. > > > [9] Sections 3 and 4 of the Federal Courts Act create > two separate courts – this Court (section 3) and the Federal Court > (section 4). If, as Mr. Amos suggests, documents filed in the Federal > Court were automatically also filed in this Court, then there would no > need for the parties to prepare and file appeal books as required by > Rules 343 to 345 of the Federal Courts Rules, SOR/98-106 in relation > to any appeal from a decision of the Federal Court. The requirement to > file an appeal book with this Court in relation to an appeal from a > decision of the Federal Court makes it clear that the only documents > that will be before this Court are the documents that are part of that > appeal book. > > > [10] Therefore, the memorandum of fact and law filed on > March 6, 2017 is the first document, filed with this Court, in which > Mr. Amos identified the particular judges that he submits have a > conflict in any matter related to him. > > > [11] On April 3, 2017, Mr. Amos attempted to bring a motion > before the Federal Court seeking an order “affirming or denying the > conflict of interest he has” with a number of judges of the Federal > Court. A judge of the Federal Court issued a direction noting that if > Mr. Amos was seeking this order in relation to judges of the Federal > Court of Appeal, it was beyond the jurisdiction of the Federal Court. > Mr. Amos raised the Federal Court motion at the hearing of this > cross-appeal. The Federal Court motion is not a motion before this > Court and, as such, the submissions filed before the Federal Court > will not be entertained. As well, since this was a motion brought > before the Federal Court (and not this Court), any documents filed in > relation to that motion are not part of the record of this Court. > > > [12] During the hearing of the appeal Mr. Amos alleged that > the third member of this panel also had a conflict of interest and > submitted some documents that, in his view, supported his claim of a > conflict. Mr. Amos, following the hearing of his appeal, was also > afforded the opportunity to provide a brief summary of the conflict > that he was alleging and to file additional documents that, in his > view, supported his allegations. Mr. Amos submitted several pages of > documents in relation to the alleged conflicts. He organized the > documents by submitting a copy of the biography of the particular > judge and then, immediately following that biography, by including > copies of the documents that, in his view, supported his claim that > such judge had a conflict. > > > [13] The nature of the alleged conflict of Justice Webb is > that before he was appointed as a Judge of the Tax Court of Canada in > 2006, he was a partner with the law firm Patterson Law, and before > that with Patterson Palmer in Nova Scotia. Mr. Amos submitted that he > had a number of disputes with Patterson Palmer and Patterson Law and > therefore Justice Webb has a conflict simply because he was a partner > of these firms. Mr. Amos is not alleging that Justice Webb was > personally involved in or had any knowledge of any matter in which Mr. > Amos was involved with Justice Webb’s former law firm – only that he > was a member of such firm. > > > [14] During his oral submissions at the hearing of his > appeal Mr. Amos, in relation to the alleged conflict for Justice Webb, > focused on dealings between himself and a particular lawyer at > Patterson Law. However, none of the documents submitted by Mr. Amos at > the hearing or subsequently related to any dealings with this > particular lawyer nor is it clear when Mr. Amos was dealing with this > lawyer. In particular, it is far from clear whether such dealings were > after the time that Justice Webb was appointed as a Judge of the Tax > Court of Canada over 10 years ago. > > > [15] The documents that he submitted in relation to the > alleged conflict for Justice Webb largely relate to dealings between > Byron Prior and the St. John’s Newfoundland and Labrador office of > Patterson Palmer, which is not in the same province where Justice Webb > practiced law. The only document that indicates any dealing between > Mr. Amos and Patterson Palmer is a copy of an affidavit of Stephen May > who was a partner in the St. John’s NL office of Patterson Palmer. The > affidavit is dated January 24, 2005 and refers to a number of e-mails > that were sent by Mr. Amos to Stephen May. Mr. Amos also included a > letter that is addressed to four individuals, one of whom is John > Crosbie who was counsel to the St. John’s NL office of Patterson > Palmer. The letter is dated September 2, 2004 and is addressed to > “John Crosbie, c/o Greg G. Byrne, Suite 502, 570 Queen Street, > Fredericton, NB E3B 5E3”. In this letter Mr. Amos alludes to a > possible lawsuit against Patterson Palmer. > [16] Mr. Amos’ position is that simply because Justice Webb > was a lawyer with Patterson Palmer, he now has a conflict. In Wewaykum > Indian Band v. Her Majesty the Queen, 2003 SCC 45, [2003] 2 S.C.R. > 259, the Supreme Court of Canada noted that disqualification of a > judge is to be determined based on whether there is a reasonable > apprehension of bias: > 60 In Canadian law, one standard has now emerged as the > criterion for disqualification. The criterion, as expressed by de > Grandpré J. in Committee for Justice and Liberty v. National Energy > Board, …[[1978] 1 S.C.R. 369, 68 D.L.R. (3d) 716], at p. 394, is the > reasonable apprehension of bias: > … the apprehension of bias must be a reasonable one, held by > reasonable and right minded persons, applying themselves to the > question and obtaining thereon the required information. In the words > of the Court of Appeal, that test is "what would an informed person, > viewing the matter realistically and practically -- and having thought > the matter through -- conclude. Would he think that it is more likely > than not that [the decision-maker], whether consciously or > unconsciously, would not decide fairly." > > [17] The issue to be determined is whether an informed > person, viewing the matter realistically and practically, and having > thought the matter through, would conclude that Mr. Amos’ allegations > give rise to a reasonable apprehension of bias. As this Court has > previously remarked, “there is a strong presumption that judges will > administer justice impartially” and this presumption will not be > rebutted in the absence of “convincing evidence” of bias (Collins v. > Canada, 2011 FCA 140 at para. 7, [2011] 4 C.T.C. 157 [Collins]. See > also R. v. S. (R.D.), [1997] 3 S.C.R. 484 at para. 32, 151 D.L.R. > (4th) 193). > > [18] The Ontario Court of Appeal in Rando Drugs Ltd. v. > Scott, 2007 ONCA 553, 86 O.R. (3d) 653 (leave to appeal to the Supreme > Court of Canada refused, 32285 (August 1, 2007)), addressed the > particular issue of whether a judge is disqualified from hearing a > case simply because he had been a member of a law firm that was > involved in the litigation that was now before that judge. The Ontario > Court of Appeal determined that the judge was not disqualified if the > judge had no involvement with the person or the matter when he was a > lawyer. The Ontario Court of Appeal also explained that the rules for > determining whether a judge is disqualified are different from the > rules to determine whether a lawyer has a conflict: > 27 Thus, disqualification is not the natural corollary to a > finding that a trial judge has had some involvement in a case over > which he or she is now presiding. Where the judge had no involvement, > as here, it cannot be said that the judge is disqualified. > > > 28 The point can rightly be made that had Mr. Patterson been > asked to represent the appellant as counsel before his appointment to > the bench, the conflict rules would likely have prevented him from > taking the case because his firm had formerly represented one of the > defendants in the case. Thus, it is argued how is it that as a trial > judge Patterson J. can hear the case? This issue was considered by the > Court of Appeal (Civil Division) in Locabail (U.K.) Ltd. v. Bayfield > Properties Ltd., [2000] Q.B. 451. The court held, at para. 58, that > there is no inflexible rule governing the disqualification of a judge > and that, "[e]verything depends on the circumstances." > > > 29 It seems to me that what appears at first sight to be an > inconsistency in application of rules can be explained by the > different contexts and in particular, the strong presumption of > judicial impartiality that applies in the context of disqualification > of a judge. There is no such presumption in cases of allegations of > conflict of interest against a lawyer because of a firm's previous > involvement in the case. To the contrary, as explained by Sopinka J. > in MacDonald Estate v. Martin (1990), 77 D.L.R. (4th) 249 (S.C.C.), > for sound policy reasons there is a presumption of a disqualifying > interest that can rarely be overcome. In particular, a conclusory > statement from the lawyer that he or she had no confidential > information about the case will never be sufficient. The case is the > opposite where the allegation of bias is made against a trial judge. > His or her statement that he or she knew nothing about the case and > had no involvement in it will ordinarily be accepted at face value > unless there is good reason to doubt it: see Locabail, at para. 19. > > > 30 That brings me then to consider the particular circumstances > of this case and whether there are serious grounds to find a > disqualifying conflict of interest in this case. In my view, there are > two significant factors that justify the trial judge's decision not to > recuse himself. The first is his statement, which all parties accept, > that he knew nothing of the case when it was in his former firm and > that he had nothing to do with it. The second is the long passage of > time. As was said in Wewaykum, at para. 85: > To us, one significant factor stands out, and must inform > the perspective of the reasonable person assessing the impact of this > involvement on Binnie J.'s impartiality in the appeals. That factor is > the passage of time. Most arguments for disqualification rest on > circumstances that are either contemporaneous to the decision-making, > or that occurred within a short time prior to the decision-making. > 31 There are other factors that inform the issue. The Wilson > Walker firm no longer acted for any of the parties by the time of > trial. More importantly, at the time of the motion, Patterson J. had > been a judge for six years and thus had not had a relationship with > his former firm for a considerable period of time. > > > 32 In my view, a reasonable person, viewing the matter > realistically would conclude that the trial judge could deal fairly > and impartially with this case. I take this view principally because > of the long passage of time and the trial judge's lack of involvement > in or knowledge of the case when the Wilson Walker firm had carriage. > In these circumstances it cannot be reasonably contended that the > trial judge could not remain impartial in the case. The mere fact that > his name appears on the letterhead of some correspondence from over a > decade ago would not lead a reasonable person to believe that he would > either consciously or unconsciously favour his former firm's former > client. It is simply not realistic to think that a judge would throw > off his mantle of impartiality, ignore his oath of office and favour a > client - about whom he knew nothing - of a firm that he left six years > earlier and that no longer acts for the client, in a case involving > events from over a decade ago. > (emphasis added) > > [19] Justice Webb had no involvement with any matter > involving Mr. Amos while he was a member of Patterson Palmer or > Patterson Law, nor does Mr. Amos suggest that he did. Mr. Amos made it > clear during the hearing of this matter that the only reason for the > alleged conflict for Justice Webb was that he was a member of > Patterson Law and Patterson Palmer. This is simply not enough for > Justice Webb to be disqualified. Any involvement of Mr. Amos with > Patterson Law while Justice Webb was a member of that firm would have > had to occur over 10 years ago and even longer for the time when he > was a member of Patterson Palmer. In addition to the lack of any > involvement on his part with any matter or dispute that Mr. Amos had > with Patterson Law or Patterson Palmer (which in and of itself is > sufficient to dispose of this matter), the length of time since > Justice Webb was a member of Patterson Law or Patterson Palmer would > also result in the same finding – that there is no conflict in Justice > Webb hearing this appeal. > > [20] Similarly in R. v. Bagot, 2000 MBCA 30, 145 Man. R. > (2d) 260, the Manitoba Court of Appeal found that there was no > reasonable apprehension of bias when a judge, who had been a member of > the law firm that had been retained by the accused, had no involvement > with the accused while he was a lawyer with that firm. > > [21] In Del Zotto v. Minister of National Revenue, [2000] 4 > F.C. 321, 257 N.R. 96, this court did find that there would be a > reasonable apprehension of bias where a judge, who while he was a > lawyer, had recorded time on a matter involving the same person who > was before that judge. However, this case can be distinguished as > Justice Webb did not have any time recorded on any files involving Mr. > Amos while he was a lawyer with Patterson Palmer or Patterson Law. > > [22] Mr. Amos also included with his submissions a CD. He > stated in his affidavit dated June 26, 2017 that there is a “true copy > of an American police surveillance wiretap entitled 139” on this CD. > He has also indicated that he has “provided a true copy of the CD > entitled 139 to many American and Canadian law enforcement authorities > and not one of the police forces or officers of the court are willing > to investigate it”. Since he has indicated that this is an “American > police surveillance wiretap”, this is a matter for the American law > enforcement authorities and cannot create, as Mr. Amos suggests, a > conflict of interest for any judge to whom he provides a copy. > > [23] As a result, there is no conflict or reasonable > apprehension of bias for Justice Webb and therefore, no reason for him > to recuse himself. > > [24] Mr. Amos alleged that Justice Near’s past professional > experience with the government created a “quasi-conflict” in deciding > the cross-appeal. Mr. Amos provided no details and Justice Near > confirmed that he had no prior knowledge of the matters alleged in the > Claim. Justice Near sees no reason to recuse himself. > > [25] Insofar as it is possible to glean the basis for Mr. > Amos’ allegations against Justice Gleason, it appears that he alleges > that she is incapable of hearing this appeal because he says he wrote > a letter to Brian Mulroney and Jean Chrétien in 2004. At that time, > both Justice Gleason and Mr. Mulroney were partners in the law firm > Ogilvy Renault, LLP. The letter in question, which is rude and angry, > begins with “Hey you two Evil Old Smiling Bastards” and “Re: me suing > you and your little dogs too”. There is no indication that the letter > was ever responded to or that a law suit was ever commenced by Mr. > Amos against Mr. Mulroney. In the circumstances, there is no reason > for Justice Gleason to recuse herself as the letter in question does > not give rise to a reasonable apprehension of bias. > > > III. Issue > > [26] The issue on the cross-appeal is as follows: Did the > Judge err in setting aside the Prothonotary’s Order striking the Claim > in its entirety without leave to amend and in determining that Mr. > Amos’ allegation that the RCMP barred him from the New Brunswick > legislature in 2004 was capable of supporting a cause of action? > > IV. Analysis > > A. Standard of Review > > [27] Following the Judge’s decision to set aside the > Prothonotary’s Order, this Court revisited the standard of review to > be applied to discretionary decisions of prothonotaries and decisions > made by judges on appeals of prothonotaries’ decisions in Hospira > Healthcare Corp. v. Kennedy Institute of Rheumatology, 2016 FCA 215, > 402 D.L.R. (4th) 497 [Hospira]. In Hospira, a five-member panel of > this Court replaced the Aqua-Gem standard of review with that > articulated in Housen v. Nikolaisen, 2002 SCC 33, [2002] 2 S.C.R. 235 > [Housen]. As a result, it is no longer appropriate for the Federal > Court to conduct a de novo review of a discretionary order made by a > prothonotary in regard to questions vital to the final issue of the > case. Rather, a Federal Court judge can only intervene on appeal if > the prothonotary made an error of law or a palpable and overriding > error in determining a question of fact or question of mixed fact and > law (Hospira at para. 79). Further, this Court can only interfere with > a Federal Court judge’s review of a prothonotary’s discretionary order > if the judge made an error of law or palpable and overriding error in > determining a question of fact or question of mixed fact and law > (Hospira at paras. 82-83). > > [28] In the case at bar, the Judge substituted his own > assessment of Mr. Amos’ Claim for that of the Prothonotary. This Court > must look to the Prothonotary’s Order to determine whether the Judge > erred in law or made a palpable and overriding error in choosing to > interfere. > > > B. Did the Judge err in interfering with the > Prothonotary’s Order? > > [29] The Prothontoary’s Order accepted the following > paragraphs from the Crown’s submissions as the basis for striking the > Claim in its entirety without leave to amend: > > 17. Within the 96 paragraph Statement of Claim, the Plaintiff > addresses his complaint in paragraphs 14-24, inclusive. All but four > of those paragraphs are dedicated to an incident that occurred in 2006 > in and around the legislature in New Brunswick. The jurisdiction of > the Federal Court does not extend to Her Majesty the Queen in right of > the Provinces. In any event, the Plaintiff hasn’t named the Province > or provincial actors as parties to this action. The incident alleged > does not give rise to a justiciable cause of action in this Court. > (…) > > > 21. The few paragraphs that directly address the Defendant > provide no details as to the individuals involved or the location of > the alleged incidents or other details sufficient to allow the > Defendant to respond. As a result, it is difficult or impossible to > determine the causes of action the Plaintiff is attempting to advance. > A generous reading of the Statement of Claim allows the Defendant to > only speculate as to the true and/or intended cause of action. At > best, the Plaintiff’s action may possibly be summarized as: he > suspects he is barred from the House of Commons. > [footnotes omitted]. > > > [30] The Judge determined that he could not strike the Claim > on the same jurisdictional basis as the Prothonotary. The Judge noted > that the Federal Court has jurisdiction over claims based on the > liability of Federal Crown servants like the RCMP and that the actors > who barred Mr. Amos from the New Brunswick legislature in 2004 > included the RCMP (Federal Court Judgment at para. 23). In considering > the viability of these allegations de novo, the Judge identified > paragraph 14 of the Claim as containing “some precision” as it > identifies the date of the event and a RCMP officer acting as > Aide-de-Camp to the Lieutenant Governor (Federal Court Judgment at > para. 27). > > > [31] The Judge noted that the 2004 event could support a > cause of action in the tort of misfeasance in public office and > identified the elements of the tort as excerpted from Meigs v. Canada, > 2013 FC 389, 431 F.T.R. 111: > > > [13] As in both the cases of Odhavji Estate v Woodhouse, 2003 SCC > 69 [Odhavji] and Lewis v Canada, 2012 FC 1514 [Lewis], I must > determine whether the plaintiffs’ statement of claim pleads each > element of the alleged tort of misfeasance in public office: > > a) The public officer must have engaged in deliberate and unlawful > conduct in his or her capacity as public officer; > > b) The public officer must have been aware both that his or her > conduct was unlawful and that it was likely to harm the plaintiff; and > > c) There must be an element of bad faith or dishonesty by the public > officer and knowledge of harm alone is insufficient to conclude that a > public officer acted in bad faith or dishonestly. > Odhavji, above, at paras 23, 24 and 28 > (Federal Court Judgment at para. 28). > > [32] The Judge determined that Mr. Amos disclosed sufficient > material facts to meet the elements of the tort of misfeasance in > public office because the actors, who barred him from the New > Brunswick legislature in 2004, including the RCMP, did so for > “political reasons” (Federal Court Judgment at para. 29). > > [33] This Court’s discussion of the sufficiency of pleadings > in Merchant Law Group v. Canada (Revenue Agency), 2010 FCA 184, 321 > D.L.R (4th) 301 is particularly apt: > > …When pleading bad faith or abuse of power, it is not enough to > assert, baldly, conclusory phrases such as “deliberately or > negligently,” “callous disregard,” or “by fraud and theft did steal”. > “The bare assertion of a conclusion upon which the court is called > upon to pronounce is not an allegation of material fact”. Making bald, > conclusory allegations without any evidentiary foundation is an abuse > of process… > > To this, I would add that the tort of misfeasance in public office > requires a particular state of mind of a public officer in carrying > out the impunged action, i.e., deliberate conduct which the public > officer knows to be inconsistent with the obligations of his or her > office. For this tort, particularization of the allegations is > mandatory. Rule 181 specifically requires particularization of > allegations of “breach of trust,” “wilful default,” “state of mind of > a person,” “malice” or “fraudulent intention.” > (at paras. 34-35, citations omitted). > > [34] Applying the Housen standard of review to the > Prothonotary’s Order, we are of the view that the Judge interfered > absent a legal or palpable and overriding error. > > [35] The Prothonotary determined that Mr. Amos’ Claim > disclosed no reasonable claim and was fundamentally vexatious on the > basis of jurisdictional concerns and the absence of material facts to > ground a cause of action. Paragraph 14 of the Claim, which addresses > the 2004 event, pleads no material facts as to how the RCMP officer > engaged in deliberate and unlawful conduct, knew that his or her > conduct was unlawful and likely to harm Mr. Amos, and acted in bad > faith. While the Claim alleges elsewhere that Mr. Amos was barred from > the New Brunswick legislature for political and/or malicious reasons, > these allegations are not particularized and are directed against > non-federal actors, such as the Sergeant-at-Arms of the Legislative > Assembly of New Brunswick and the Fredericton Police Force. As such, > the Judge erred in determining that Mr. Amos’ allegation that the RCMP > barred him from the New Brunswick legislature in 2004 was capable of > supporting a cause of action. > > [36] In our view, the Claim is made up entirely of bare > allegations, devoid of any detail, such that it discloses no > reasonable cause of action within the jurisdiction of the Federal > Courts. Therefore, the Judge erred in interfering to set aside the > Prothonotary’s Order striking the claim in its entirety. Further, we > find that the Prothonotary made no error in denying leave to amend. > The deficiencies in Mr. Amos’ pleadings are so extensive such that > amendment could not cure them (see Collins at para. 26). > > V. Conclusion > [37] For the foregoing reasons, we would allow the Crown’s > cross-appeal, with costs, setting aside the Federal Court Judgment, > dated January 25, 2016 and restoring the Prothonotary’s Order, dated > November 12, 2015, which struck Mr. Amos’ Claim in its entirety > without leave to amend. > "Wyman W. Webb" > J.A. > "David G. Near" > J.A. > "Mary J.L. Gleason" > J.A. > > > > FEDERAL COURT OF APPEAL > NAMES OF COUNSEL AND SOLICITORS OF RECORD > > A CROSS-APPEAL FROM AN ORDER OF THE HONOURABLE JUSTICE SOUTHCOTT DATED > JANUARY 25, 2016; DOCKET NUMBER T-1557-15. > DOCKET: > > A-48-16 > > > > STYLE OF CAUSE: > > DAVID RAYMOND AMOS v. HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN > > > > PLACE OF HEARING: > > Fredericton, > New Brunswick > > DATE OF HEARING: > > May 24, 2017 > > REASONS FOR JUDGMENT OF THE COURT BY: > > WEBB J.A. > NEAR J.A. > GLEASON J.A. > > DATED: > > October 30, 2017 > > APPEARANCES: > David Raymond Amos > > > For The Appellant / respondent on cross-appeal > (on his own behalf) > > Jan Jensen > > > For The Respondent / appELLANT ON CROSS-APPEAL > > SOLICITORS OF RECORD: > Nathalie G. Drouin > Deputy Attorney General of Canada > > For The Respondent / APPELLANT ON CROSS-APPEAL > | |
RE Rapid development raises concerns about fate of Fredericton's heritage buildings and a little Deja Vu about the Risteen Building
David Amos<david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com> | Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 3:16 PM |
| To: mayor@fredericton.ca, Margo.Sheppard@fredericton.ca, marcus.kingston@gnb.ca, blaine.higgs@gnb.ca, oldmaison@yahoo.com, andre@jafaust.com, jbosnitch@gmail.com, David.Coon@gnb.ca, kris.austin@gnb.ca, robert.gauvin@gnb.ca, premier@gnb.ca, Jenica.Atwin@parl.gc.ca, bruce@downtownfredericton.ca, dfi@downtownfredericton.ca, markandcaroline@gmail.com, aidan.cox@cbc.ca, "sylvie.gadoury" <sylvie.gadoury@radio-canada.ca>, martin.gaudet@fredericton.ca, info@bellaproperties.ca, "Mark.Blakely" <Mark.Blakely@rcmp-grc.gc.ca>, Jacques.Poitras@cbc.ca, steve.murphy@ctv.ca, Newsroom <Newsroom@globeandmail.com>, 3rdage@stu.ca, jeremy.mouat@ualberta.ca, antheaplummer@gmail.com | |
| Cc: motomaniac333 <motomaniac333@gmail.com>, briangallant10 <briangallant10@gmail.com>, "Mike.Comeau" <Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca>, "Marco.Mendicino" <Marco.Mendicino@parl.gc.ca>, "Brenda.Lucki" <Brenda.Lucki@rcmp-grc.gc.ca>, "Bill.Hogan" <Bill.Hogan@gnb.ca> | |
https://davidraymondamos3. Friday, 17 June 2022 Rapid development raises concerns about fate of Fredericton's heritage buildings https://twitter.com/Aidan4jrn/ Aidan Cox @Aidan4jrn · Mar 12 There are many pressing things in this world right now, but would you believe this can be found at one of the busiest intersections in Fredericton? In a gazebo showcasing the history of this neighbourhood no less. Image David Raymond Amos @DavidRaymondAm1 Replying to @Aidan4jrn YO @melaniejoly @premierbhiggs & @RobertGauvin5 Whereas @CBCNews continues to block me and everything in heaven and hell is done in 3 I will remain true to form and make a few calls send some emails then blog about the awful truth of it all #cdnpoli https://davidraymondamos3. https://www.cbc.ca/news/ Rapid development raises concerns about fate of Fredericton's heritage buildings Fredericton Heritage Trust says about 2,000 historically significant buildings have no heritage protection Aidan Cox · CBC News · Posted: Jun 16, 2022 3:19 PM AT Jeremy Mouat, president of the Fredericton Heritage Trust, says he's concerned that housing growth in Fredericton will come at the expense of historically significant building. (Aidan Cox/CBC) As Fredericton ramps up efforts to boost its stock of rental housing, some are concerned it could come at the expense of heritage if the proper work isn't done first. Staff at city hall are set to embark on a two-year project to plot a path for how the downtown gets developed, known as the south core plan. That work comes as city council adopted its affordable housing strategy, which lays out recommendations, including allowing developers to create four to six-unit buildings in the urban core without special approvals. But before any of those plans get implemented, the city needs to do a broad review of how it preserves historically significant buildings, or risk having them drastically altered or destroyed, according to Jeremy Mouat, president of Fredericton Heritage Trust. "There's a ton of development and a lot of the sort of large development areas have now had their future mapped out. "And in this context, we really would like to see some sort of review to establish how effective the heritage program has been and are there ways to ensure its effectiveness going forward as we basically lose a fair bit of empty space to development downtown?" Mouat is also one of five council-appointed board members on the Heritage Preservation Review Board, which ensures the city's heritage preservation bylaw is being followed. However, only about 300 structures have official heritage status or are part of the St. Anne's Point Heritage Area, and therefore protected by the bylaw. Some buildings on St. John Street were constructed in the mid-19th century, yet don't fall within the St. Anne's Point Heritage Preservation Area and therefore aren't protected. (Aidan Cox/CBC) That means the board has little to no say in any modifications or renovations done to the roughly 2,000 other buildings across the city that he says have historical significance. That includes St. John Street, with its mix of brightly coloured, tightly packed homes that hark back to the development style of the mid-19th century. "Lots of streetscapes, in our view, need protection," Mouat said. "I mean, if you walk around where I live on St. John Street, down Charlotte Street, Needham, lots of other places, you see charming streetscapes that are the envy of lots of other cities in Canada. "And what we're anxious about is the fate of these streetscapes, as development pressures are going to pick up, particularly in terms of the need to densify housing and to add on and, you know, subdivide more and more of the older buildings into apartments." Mouat said his group isn't opposed to the buildings being renovated and used for apartments, "but we're anxious that ultimately that's going to lead to, to wear and tear that would ultimately lead to, to demolition." Mouat says some homes on Needham Street are historically significant but don't have any heritage protections. (Aidan Cox/CBC) Request brought before councillors On Monday, Doug Wright, chair of the heritage board, made a presentation to Fredericton city council on the group's work since 2021 and recommended council "establish a comprehensive heritage program review" to ensure it aligns with provincial regulations and council priorities. "It would offer an opportunity for council to consider the broad heritage program in the light of the rapid development now occurring in Fredericton," Wright said. His recommendation led to a motion by Coun. Margo Sheppard to direct city staff to undertake a heritage program review, including design guideline recommendations and potential amendments to the heritage bylaw prior to the south core plan being done. The motion generated discussion among councillors, with some in support, and other against it. Coun. Jason Lejeune said it's important to put the heritage review ahead of the south core plan being done. "I think getting this done will inform a lot of our work to be done under the south core plan and it's important to get it done ahead of that time primarily to avoid any unintended consequences that could come down the road," he said. Coun. Bruce Grandy said he couldn't support the motion, noting that staff indicated they were already busy with getting the south core plan done. "They're tasked with a great load at this particular moment in time. Not only that, the construction and permitting that's going on and the amount of development that's happening," Grandy said. "If it was a staff recommendation I certainly would support it but understanding what I just asked previous, and the work that they're involved in with the limited staff, I won't support the motion." The motion was defeated 7-4, but councillors agreed to have the issue sent to the economic vitality committee for further consideration. Dwindling heritage stock If a property owner wants to tear down a building with historical significance, council has the opportunity to step in and grant it heritage status. However, councillors still voted in 2019 against giving heritage status to the Risteen building, effectively giving the developer who owned it the right to tear it down. Sheppard said with the city set to grow in population, and housing needs to continue growing, she fears more buldings will meet the same fate. The Risteen building was demolished in 2019 after councillors voted against granting it status under the heritage preservation bylaw. (Mike Heenan/CBC) "Being the capital city, as Fredericton is, we really need to be cognizant that, that our heritage is, is dwindling," Sheppard said. "We have many heritage buildings that are not protected in any way. Some have national significance, some have provincial significance, and, you know, we can we can decide that we want to create an environment where people want to keep heritage buildings." Sheppard said a broad review of the city's heritage strategy could result in incentives from the city to encourage property owners to preserve a building's defining features. A review could also result in more buildings being better recognized for their heritage value, she said. "The [heritage] preservation bylaw hasn't really resulted in too too many neighbourhoods being designated for one reason or another. "And, you know, maybe it's time we took a look at the, at that process and also look at other things that have been over the last 20 years or so ... recommended but never acted upon." ABOUT THE AUTHOR Aidan Cox Web reporter/editor Aidan Cox is a web writer for the CBC based in Fredericton. He can be reached at aidan.cox@cbc.ca and followed on Twitter @Aidan4jrn. CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices https://wp.stu.ca/ The Third Age Centre is an autonomous, community-based, non-profit organization, housed at Saint Thomas University. The Centre’s membership is predominantly made up of older adults (50+). However, an interest in, and a concern for, the issues that affect aging is of primary importance for all members. The Centre was established in 1991 under the auspices of the Chair in Gerontology at Saint Thomas University. It is now an independent organization, although Saint Thomas continues its support by providing office space, and in kind support. The mission of the Third Age Centre is to empower older adults to maintain healthy, independent, active lifestyles. The mandate is to do research and public education on seniors’ issues, and to act as an advocate on behalf of seniors. The Third Age Centre maintains close links with like-minded local, regional and national organizations. Board of Directors for 2021-2022 Heather Lunergan (President) Albert Banerjee (Vice President) Wiggins, Nancy (Past President) Secretary-Vacant McFarland, Joan (STU Faculty Rep.) Anne Doyle (Treasurer) Jordan-Arsenault, Brooklyn (STU Student Rep.) Eleanor McCloskey Kissick, Doreen Pacey, Penny Contact: (506) 452-0526 3rdage@stu.ca https://www. Fredericton Heritage Trust is a volunteer non-profit, charitable organization dedicated to promoting the preservation of the natural, historical, and architectural heritage of the Capital Region of New Brunswick. The Trust has launched many successful endeavours over the years, including walking tour booklets of both Fredericton and Marysville and a restoration guidebook to Fredericton's residential architecture. Annually, the Trust presents awards to businesses and individuals for their efforts in restoring and maintaining our architectural heritage. Various educational projects and programs are also ongoing regularly. We have an active volunteer board and hold monthly meetings. These meetings are open to the public and any interested party is invited to attend. The Trust welcomes new members and new ideas... Please contact us. Our Mandate To preserve, protect and promote the heritage of Fredericton and area. To identify and recognize examples of heritage preservation. To educate the public (especially children) as to the importance of our built and natural heritage. Executive Director: Anthea Plummer antheaplummer@gmail.com Board Members 2022 Executive: President: Jeremy Mouat, Professor Emeritus, University of Alberta Past President: Richard Bird, Retired Professor of Law, UNB Vice President: Secretary: Treasurer: Ian Baird, PhD Student, Department of History, UNB Board Members: Marion Beyea, Retired Provincial Archivist (NB) Gwendolyn Davies, Professor and Dean Emerita, UNB Margo Sheppard, Fredericton City Councillor for Ward 1 Ellen Wilson Messenger, B.Ed., M.Sc (Aud), Heritage Home Owner Monika Berenyi, Lawyer, McInnes Cooper Bronwyn Coates Bonney, Student Intervention Coordinator, Student Services, UNB Ian Robertson, Retired Architect, B.Arch. (NSTC/DAL), AANB Richard Bird, Retired Professor of Law, UNB Richard Russell Thomas Gonder, Music Director, Christ Church Cathedral Advisors: Drummond Bowden, Professor Emeritus, Faculty of Medicine, UManitoba Barbara Hughes Campbell, Q.C., Lawyer & Heritage Home Owner Robert Dallison, Lt. Col. (Ret.)/History Researcher & Author Hart North, Businessman Peter Pacey, Owner of the Calithumpians https://apps.ualberta.ca/ Jeremy Mouat Contact Augustana - Social Sciences jeremy.mouat@ualberta.ca https://www.c-span.org/video/? October 24, 2015 Western Labor and Working Class History History professors talked about how they became interested in labor and working class history and how best to bring that topic into universities. 00:00:00 YOU CAN WATCH THIS AND OTHER AMERICAN ARTIFACTS PROGRAMS BY VISITING OUR WEBSITE AT C-SPAN.ORG/HISTORY. 00:00:00 COMING UP NEXT, SEVEN HISTORY PROFESSORS DISCUSS THE STATE OF THE FIELD FOR LABOR AND WORKING-CLASS HISTORY IN THE WEST. THEY ALSO EXPLORE SOME OF THE PRIMARY... Show Full Text https://davidraymondamos3. Saturday, 26 January 2019 Fate of 1820s stone building in Fredericton causes worry https://twitter.com/ David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 49 others Methinks CBC would realize by now its not wise to continue blocking my comments on issues that concern me. It merely causes me to post more and blog about it N'esy Pas? https://davidraymondamos3. #nbpoli #cdnpoli https://www.cbc.ca/news/ ---------- Original message ---------- From: "Gallant, Brian (LEG)" <Brian.Gallant@gnb.ca> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:29:24 +0000 Subject: RE: YO Marcus Kingston I just called but you were too busy having coffee to talk to me about your concerns about the Risteen building To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com> Thank you for writing to the Leader of the Official Opposition of New Brunswick. Please be assured that your e-mail will be reviewed. If this is a media request, please forward your e-mail to ashley.beaudin@gnb.camedia- >. Thank you! --- Nous vous remercions d’avoir communiqué avec le chef de l’opposition officielle du Nouveau-Brunswick. Soyez assuré(e) que votre courriel sera examiné. Si ceci est une demande médiatique, prière de la transmettre à ashley.beaudin@gnb.camedia- ---------- Original message ---------- From: Newsroom <newsroom@globeandmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:29:26 +0000 Subject: Automatic reply: YO Marcus Kingston I just called but you were too busy having coffee to talk to me about your concerns about the Risteen building To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com> Thank you for contacting The Globe and Mail. If your matter pertains to newspaper delivery or you require technical support, please contact our Customer Service department at 1-800-387-5400 or send an email to customerservice@globeandmail. If you are reporting a factual error please forward your email to publiceditor@globeandmail.com< Letters to the Editor can be sent to letters@globeandmail.com This is the correct email address for requests for news coverage and press releases. ---------- Original message ---------- From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 12:29:19 -0400 Subject: YO Marcus Kingston I just called but you were too busy having coffee to talk to me about your concerns about the Risteen building To: marcus.kingston@gnb.ca, mike.obrien@fredericton.ca, blaine.higgs@gnb.ca, oldmaison@yahoo.com, andre@jafaust.com, jbosnitch@gmail.com, David.Coon@gnb.ca, kris.austin@gnb.ca, brian.gallant@gnb.ca, robert.gauvin@gnb.ca, premier@gnb.ca, Matt.DeCourcey.c1@parl.gc.ca, bruce@downtownfredericton.ca, dfi@downtownfredericton.ca, markandcaroline@gmail.com, martin.gaudet@fredericton.ca, Larry.Tremblay@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, Gilles.Blinn@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, Stephen.Chase@fredericton.ca, info@bellaproperties.ca Cc: david.raymond.amos@gmail.com, Jacques.Poitras@cbc.ca, steve.murphy@ctv.ca, Newsroom@globeandmail.com However I did tell what I was up to Correct? Perhaps Chucky Lebalnc and his cohorts will take up your battles with Fat Fred City with his buddy Premier Blaine Higgs and Hon. Robert Gauvin in particular N'esy Pas? https://www2.gnb.ca/content/ Heritage Designations in New Brunswick Through the Heritage Conservation Act, the province is involved in a number of procedures that can result in different types of heritage designations. Depending on the level and nature of significance, places in New Brunswick may be eligible for recognition under the following types of designations: •Provincial Heritage Place Designation •Municipal Heritage Conservation Area •Local Historic Place Designation Provincial Heritage Places and Local Historic Places are listed on the New Brunswick Register of Historic Places and on the Canadian Register of Historic Places. Information on the Canadian Register of Historic Places is available at www.HistoricPlaces.ca. For National Historic Sites and related information, contact Parks Canada Agency web site, click here. https://oldmaison.wordpress. Tuesday Dec13 2011 North Start bar sold to Gabriel El-Zayat for $400,000. Plans more than 66 apartment units!!!! thought on “North Start bar sold to Gabriel El-Zayat for $400,000. Plans more than 66 apartment units!!!!” December 14, 2011 at 3:17 pm Triumph26 said: Isn't it great that this Smart City we live in sold this club for $125,000 less than they paid to a known slum landlord. There were several other solutions to this issue. https://www.cbc.ca/news/ Fate of 1820s stone building in Fredericton causes worry Owner wants to put up new apartments on property in downtown Fredericton CBC News · Posted: Jan 26, 2019 8:00 AM AT The Risteen Sash and Door factory was established in the 1870s in one of the first stone cut buildings in New Brunswick. (Provincial Archives) Concern is growing for an old stone building in downtown Fredericton, once the home of a thriving woodworking factory and now possibly headed for demolition. The Risteen building at the corner of Queen and Smythe streets, the first cut stone building in New Brunswick, could be torn down to make way for a new development. Gabriel Elzayat says he wants to put apartments on the property. The prospect saddens Carl Risteen, great-grandson of Joseph Risteen, who took the building over in the 1870s. "This building here is the cornerstone basically of Queen Street, so it's the first house in Queen Street," Risteen said. He still lives in the house that his great-grandfather built adjacent to the building. The Risteen building was erected in the 1820s but Joseph Risteen turned it into a woodworking plant toward the end of the 19th century. (Jon Collicotte CBC News) "It would be a shame to see it gone," he said. It was built in the 1820s by Anthony Lockwood, surveyor general of New Brunswick. When Joseph Ristine took it over, he created the Risteen Sash and Door factory. "My great-grandfather bought the burned-out shell in about 1870 or thereabouts and fixed up the interior and built the big extension on the back — the big wooden part on the back — for his woodworking factory," Risteen said. The products of that factory can still be found in the finishings and doorways of the New Brunswick Legislature, said Risteen. Carl Risteen's great-grandfather created the Risteen Sash and Door factory. (Jon Collicott CBC News) But the building itself may not last much longer. It's one of several buildings developer Elzayat has acquired on the block. He said he's not sure whether the building will be torn down or salvaged, but he's open to ideas about incorporating it into his new development. The city said it hasn't received an application for development yet, but tenants are already on the move. Ross Davidson, whose kitchen supply shop has been in the building for decades, has been told to vacate by the end of February. "We got a notice from our landlord that the property was going to be redeveloped and that was it," Davidson said. Marcus Kingston wants to find a way to save the Risteen building in Fredericton. (Jon Collicott CBC News) Some are worried about what the loss of the building will mean for the city's heritage. Heritage enthusiast Marcus Kingston wants to find a way to save it. "It's been sitting on the spot for … nearly 200 years and it deserves to stay," he said. Despite its history, there's no heritage designation to protect the Risteen building, which means developers are free to do whatever they want with it. CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices https://downtownfredericton. Downtown Fredericton Inc. (DFI) is a non-profit Business Improvement Area (BIA) organization dedicated to sustaining and encouraging growth and development in the Central Business District of Fredericton, New Brunswick. Programs designed to revitalize, promote and enhance the commercial viability of the downtown are administered on behalf of its members in cooperation with private and public sector partners. Our goal is to create a downtown full of energy for you to enjoy! DFI has 3 full time staff members and a volunteer Board of Directors. Our office is located at 349 King St., Fredericton, NB E3B 1E4 Contact information: (506) 458-8922 / dfi@downtownfredericton.ca Bruce McCormack, General Manager Bruce has been at the helm of DFI for over 25 years now. In addition to managing the overall administration of our activities and programs, Bruce leads our discussions on economic development; acts as our municipal, provincial and federal government liason; and spearheads our business recruitment efforts. Contact: bruce@downtownfredericton.ca Vicki Stickles, Office Manager Vicki has been keeping all of us in line and all of our bills paid up for over 18 years! She packs a double punch managing not only our finances but our day to day administration tasks as well. She pretty much runs the show. Contact: Vicki@downtownfredericton.ca Krista Rae, Marketing and Communications Coordinator Krista is the newest member of the DFI team, bringing with her lots of great ideas, a tourism background and a desire to promote Downtown Fredericton as a must-see destination for both Frederictonians and out of town visitors where experiences are around every corner. Contact: krista@downtownfredericton.ca Board of Directors, 2018-2019 Executive Matt Savage (President) Savage’s Bicycle Center Mike Davis (Vice President) The Radical Edge Shane Sutherland (Secretary/Treasurer) S/S Tire Directors Mike Babineau Cora, Rustico. Barry Morrison Morrison Holdings Adam Clawson The Ciderhouse Chelsey Daley Sequoia Heather Libbey ONB Vanessa Gray Cox and Palmer Gabriel El Zayat Property Owner Jim Allain Representing Andal Corporation Stephen Chase City of Fredericton https://bellaproperties.ca/ Gabriel El-Zayat, Bella Properties, 343 Argyle Street, Fredericton, NB Contact Us 506-454-0179 506-260-6300 126 Queen st, Fredericton, NB Gabriel Elzayat Harvey Station NB 506 366-9005 https://twitter.com/ David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 49 others Oh My My Methinks you should ask yourself why my reply to you was blocked N'esy Pas? https://davidraymondamos3. #nbpoli #cdnpoli https://www.cbc.ca/news/ Fate of 1820s stone building in Fredericton causes worry Owner wants to put up new apartments on property in downtown Fredericton CBC News · Posted: Jan 26, 2019 8:00 AM AT The Risteen Sash and Door factory was established in the 1870s in one of the first stone cut buildings in New Brunswick. (Provincial Archives) Concern is growing for an old stone building in downtown Fredericton, once the home of a thriving woodworking factory and now possibly headed for demolition. The Risteen building at the corner of Queen and Smythe streets, the first cut stone building in New Brunswick, could be torn down to make way for a new development. Gabriel Elzayat says he wants to put apartments on the property. The prospect saddens Carl Risteen, great-grandson of Joseph Risteen, who took the building over in the 1870s. "This building here is the cornerstone basically of Queen Street, so it's the first house in Queen Street," Risteen said. He still lives in the house that his great-grandfather built adjacent to the building. The Risteen building was erected in the 1820s but Joseph Risteen turned it into a woodworking plant toward the end of the 19th century. (Jon Collicotte CBC News) "It would be a shame to see it gone," he said. It was built in the 1820s by Anthony Lockwood, surveyor general of New Brunswick. When Joseph Ristine took it over, he created the Risteen Sash and Door factory. "My great-grandfather bought the burned-out shell in about 1870 or thereabouts and fixed up the interior and built the big extension on the back — the big wooden part on the back — for his woodworking factory," Risteen said. The products of that factory can still be found in the finishings and doorways of the New Brunswick Legislature, said Risteen. Carl Risteen's great-grandfather created the Risteen Sash and Door factory. (Jon Collicott CBC News) But the building itself may not last much longer. It's one of several buildings developer Elzayat has acquired on the block. He said he's not sure whether the building will be torn down or salvaged, but he's open to ideas about incorporating it into his new development. The city said it hasn't received an application for development yet, but tenants are already on the move. Ross Davidson, whose kitchen supply shop has been in the building for decades, has been told to vacate by the end of February. "We got a notice from our landlord that the property was going to be redeveloped and that was it," Davidson said. Marcus Kingston wants to find a way to save the Risteen building in Fredericton. (Jon Collicott CBC News) Some are worried about what the loss of the building will mean for the city's heritage. Heritage enthusiast Marcus Kingston wants to find a way to save it. "It's been sitting on the spot for … nearly 200 years and it deserves to stay," he said. Despite its history, there's no heritage designation to protect the Risteen building, which means developers are free to do whatever they want with it. CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices 79 Comments Commenting is now closed for this story. David R. Amos David R. Amos Cheer up Carl the Fat Lady ain't sung yet Shawn McShane Shawn McShane Developers are learning that heritage buildings can be money-makers. 80 per cent of millennials “would rather spend money at businesses supporting efforts to preserve and protect buildings, architecture and neighbourhoods over those that don’t. They also choose to shop and eat in “historic downtowns . . . and places with historic appeal . . . over malls and planned commercial districts or recently constructed places.” David R. Amos David R. Amos @Shawn McShane Methinks everybody knows why that I would not bet the farm on your opinions N'esy Pas? Shawn McShane Shawn McShane @David R. Amos Not my opinion. A U.S. study commissioned by the National Trust for Historic Preservation, Edge Research and the American Express Foundation. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Shawn McShane Methinks you know what I think of Yankee opinions However I bet you didn't know that my wife was one of the top travel agents working American Express years ago N'esy Pas? Shawn McShane Johnny Horton That’s Gabriel’s style. No respect for his tenants, or history, He has a bad habit of letting leases expiring and then telling you to get out, a kids any calls or visits to his office she discuss your lease. Johnny Horton Johnny Horton @Johnny Horton ** avoids (not a kids) David R. Amos David R. Amos @Johnny Horton Too Funny Shawn McShane Ken Stephens If someone owns a property and wants to tear down a very old building like this it's his decision to make, not ours. Perhaps these people who are upset by this can all chip in and buy it from him. The way these things work is that something is there for a while but eventually becomes too old and it gets replaced, and we end up with more value out of the deal as well. Johnny Horton Johnny Horton @Ken Stephens Yep value. That’s all that matters. Gotta Aximize that tax base! yep money, that’s all that matters. Gotta own every property! David R. Amos David R. Amos @Ken Stephens Yea Right Marcus Kingston Marcus Kingston @Ken Stephens - It's clear that some people in Fredericton seem to care very little about the built heritage that surrounds us, and makes our city unique. However, there are equally those who do care. The issue shouldn't always come down to how much tax revenue can be gained from a new building. We have a moral obligation to retain certain structures for the enjoyment of future generations. I'm not against all new builds, it can be a part of growing a strong and vibrant city I agree. So too is maintaining what's already here. Perhaps we should tear down Christ Church Cathedral and put the new Starbucks there instead of in Kings Place? It could draw more people to that area of the city. Respectfully MK David R. Amos David R. Amos @Marcus Kingston Hmmm Shawn McShane Mack Leigh One thing I greatly admire about many European countries, Great Britain and New England, USA is that they preserve their historical buildings, statues, trees, etc. ..... Way to quick now to tear down, cut down or remove important pieces of our history.... Hopefully they will be able to save this landmark.. Johnny Horton Johnny Horton @Mack Leigh Gabriel is buying up and taking all the land in the area. Not much chance he’ll save it, or sell it t a preservation group. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Johnny Horton So you say Shawn McShane Mack Leigh We have become a ...throw a way ..... society ....... No thought to the preservation of anything.. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Mack Leigh YUP Alex Butt Alex Butt @Mack Leigh Yes we have become a disposable society, but we have to face facts that New Brunswick is broke and unfortunately there are bigger issues that require funding! Mack Leigh Mack Leigh @Alex Butt There are ways to preserve our historical buildings and turn them into money makers.... Erasing our historical buildings is a sad statement as to what society has become and the direction it is headed.. David R. Amos Content disabled. David R. Amos @Mack Leigh YUP Shawn McShane Shawn McShane @Alex Butt Historical places bring in tourists and locals. To be honest I am sick of beautiful old buildings full of character being torn down and replaced with cheap looking construction with a 40 yr life. Why not turn the building into apartments? Sell them. Sell a piece of history. Louie Youssef Louie Youssef @Mack Leigh What's sad about it? It's sad to move forward? I don't think anyone who puts up a building thinks it will be around forever. Shawn McShane Shawn McShane @Louie Youssef Obviously the Pharisees did, those pyramids are still around. Jim Cyr Jim Cyr @Louie Youssef But Mack's point is valid: we absolutely have become a throwaway society. In fact, the expectation now for any building put up by a government entity is that it will last 40 years. (It's right in the specs/contracts). 40 years!! That number used to be at least 75 years when I was a kid. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Shawn McShane Methinks you meant the Pharaohs N'esy Pas? Shawn McShane Shawn McShane @David R. Amos Lols Yes Pharaohs Alex Butt Alex Butt @Shawn McShane I agree but we have to face the fact that NB is broke, and not that many people travel to Fredericton to see the old buildings. Unless someone with lots of cash is willing to buy it, then we shouldn't complain that someone wants the land to build something and make money. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Alex Butt Methinks you are a bit redundant N'esy Pas? Shawn McShane Alex Butt I love the heritage idea, and everyone is all for keeping such buildings, yet no one is willing to face the hard facts that it will cost lots of money and very few are willing to put their money where their mouth is. Perfect example was the Fredericton train station. Everyone cried to keep the falling apart eye sore, and who ended up paying for it? The tax payers did. Time to wake up and realize that NB is broke and falling apart and need to set real priorities! David R. Amos Content disabled. David R. Amos @Alex Butt "Time to wake up and realize that NB is broke and falling apart" Methinks we got the governments we deserve because we overslept N'esy Pas? David R. Amos Content disabled. David R. Amos @Alex Butt Oh My My Methinks you should ask yourself why my reply to you was blocked N'esy Pas? David R. Amos David R. Amos @Alex Butt "Perfect example was the Fredericton train station. Everyone cried to keep the falling apart eye sore, and who ended up paying for it? The tax payers did." Methinks the Irving Clan didn't cry N'esy Pas? Grant Buote Grant Buote @David R. Amos - quick question: why do you keep say "N'esy Pas"? What, exactly , are you trying to say? Ian Scott Ian Scott @Alex Butt And now its a booze store. At our expense. David R. Amos Content disabled. David R. Amos @Grant Buote Its Chiac Now Go Figure Who is crazy and who is not http://www.biographi.ca/en/ However, the political crisis following Lieutenant Governor Smyth’s death on 27 March provided the occasion, if not the inducement, for Lockwood’s spectacular descent into madness. An interim president of the Council being required, George Leonard*, the octogenarian senior member, was first offered the position, which he declined on the grounds of age. Despite a challenge by supporters of Christopher Billopp, Ward Chipman* assumed the post of administrator on 1 April. The challenges continued however. Lockwood attended the Council meetings on 30 April and on 1 May. Thereafter he absented himself and for the next few weeks his whereabouts are uncertain. By 24 May he had persuaded Leonard to assert his right to the presidency “in the hope that it would produce tranquillity in the province.” Ostensibly to assist in that purpose, Lockwood appointed himself as Leonard’s civil aide-de-camp and inspecting field officer, as well as acting secretary. On 25 May he attempted to disseminate Leonard’s proclamation in Saint John – while at the same time writing a letter to Chipman offering terms for his, Lockwood’s, support. From 25 to 30 May Lockwood behaved with erratic violence in Saint John: issuing threats, brawling, taking up residence in Government House, and gathering an appreciative mob. Dr Paddock attended him with scant success. By the time he returned to Fredericton on 30 May, Lockwood was approaching collapse; on the steamboat General Smyth he scribbled a desperate note to Chipman requesting release from his present public offices since his “ailment” was “subject to increase from confinement.” David R. Amos Content disabled. David R. Amos @Grant Buote continued The Council considered Lockwood’s state of mind at their meeting on 31 May, hearing depositions from the doctors who had treated him and from the mayor of Saint John. The following day Lockwood set up a table in Fredericton square, at which he drank coffee, issued proclamations, and reacted pugnaciously to the crowd, before taking horse and riding about the streets firing pistols and declaring himself called to assume the government of the province. By nightfall Lockwood had been arrested and placed in the Fredericton jail. The Council received further evidence from the sheriff of York County on 2 June and were “fully satisfied” of Lockwood’s derangement. Chipman appointed a commission de lunatico inquirendo that day and by 5 June it had determined that Lockwood was legally mad, and had been since 19 May. On 7 June his wife and son petitioned for a committee of custody over his person and estate, which was immediately granted. When George Shore, Lockwood’s replacement, examined the surveyor general’s office, he found confusion, mutilated documents, and disarray which would take “two extra employees five years to straighten out.” Furthermore, the discrepancy between Lockwood’s receipts as receiver general and the office’s bank deposit amounted to more than £2,000. Although he was moved from the jail to what was, in effect, house-arrest in September, Lockwood and his family had to suffer the public sale of his real and personal estate as the custodial committee sought to recover the missing public monies. David R. Amos Content disabled. David R. Amos @Alex Butt "Time to wake up and realize that NB is broke and falling apart and need to set real priorities!" Methinks history can repeat itself The province has seized control of the Lockwood house before N'esy Pas? http://www.biographi.ca/en/ The following day Lockwood set up a table in Fredericton square, at which he drank coffee, issued proclamations, and reacted pugnaciously to the crowd, before taking horse and riding about the streets firing pistols and declaring himself called to assume the government of the province. By nightfall Lockwood had been arrested and placed in the Fredericton jail. The Council received further evidence from the sheriff of York County on 2 June and were “fully satisfied” of Lockwood’s derangement. Chipman appointed a commission de lunatico inquirendo that day and by 5 June it had determined that Lockwood was legally mad, and had been since 19 May. On 7 June his wife and son petitioned for a committee of custody over his person and estate, which was immediately granted. When George Shore, Lockwood’s replacement, examined the surveyor general’s office, he found confusion, mutilated documents, and disarray which would take “two extra employees five years to straighten out.” Furthermore, the discrepancy between Lockwood’s receipts as receiver general and the office’s bank deposit amounted to more than £2,000. Although he was moved from the jail to what was, in effect, house-arrest in September, Lockwood and his family had to suffer the public sale of his real and personal estate as the custodial committee sought to recover the missing public monies. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Grant Buote Methinks you should ask Fat Fred City's infamous blogger or his buddy the Mayor to explain my Chiac to you N'esy Pas? David R. Amos David R. Amos @Grant Buote Methinksin return I should ask an Urban Planning Technologist if he recalls why I ran in Fat Fred City for a seat in the 39th Parliament Trust that Chucky and Mikey know N'esy Pas? Shawn McShane Emilien Forest He owns it, he should be able to do with the way he wants. The Fredericton elite wanna be's should learn to respect that. Enjoy your herbal tea now... David R. Amos David R. Amos @Emilien Forest How do you spell R.E.S.P.E.C.T ??? Methinks you and your foes the Fredericton elite wanna be's have no clue as to what I am up to N'esy Pas? Marc LeBlanc Marc LeBlanc @Emilien Forest There should be some kind of prize for this post!!! Finally someone with my sense of humor...now watch we'll get bumped David R. Amos David R. Amos @Marc LeBlanc I have already been bumped twice Shawn McShane Louie Youssef Those properties were listed, and for sale for a very long time. Anyone who wanted to save them, or do anything else with them, could have bought them. Just because something is old, it doesn't mean it should stay around forever. Why should anyone have the right to dictate what all future generations do with private property? There are people around who just love to have a cause to champion, and that's fair. But when someone spends their time, money and energy taking a risk on something, it's not right to try and change the rules of the game, mid game. If tearing down old, inefficient, obsolete buildings was prevented, New York city would never have been built. It's called progress. Getting rid of something to build something better, that will provide badly needed housing, shouldn't be discouraged. Emilien Forest Emilien Forest @Louie Youssef Well said! Jason jeandron Jason jeandron @Louie Youssef It's that attitude that saw corporations dump hazardous waste into watercourses, destroy wetlands and pollute the atmosphere a few decades ago. Heritage is a community asset which provides well documented advantages when preserved. Improved community, increased economic benefits from taxes, tourism and jobs creation. And while they fail to follow it, the City has committed to conserving our heritage in their Municipal Plan. As you'll be aware, the City/Province/Nation often has a say in how development occurs, to prevent the loss of life, environment and increasingly heritage. Allowing developers to destroy iur heritage, that others have helped to survive for nearly 2 centuries in this case, is short-sighted. There are other places that developers can build in that will not destroy our non-renewable heritage resources. Marcus Kingston Marcus Kingston @Louie Youssef@Louie Youssef I respect your response, however I also respectfully disagree with your response. This building is old yes, but it has extreme heritage value to the city and the province. People come to Fredericton to see these structures and admire their craftsmanship and design. The New York City that you speak of actually 'landmarks' many of their historic structures as the realize their importance to the history and culture of their city. If city planners in Fredericton had had their way in the 1960's/70's then the entirety of Queen Street including City Hall would have been demolished. How would this have benefited Fredericton in the long run? Are you aware of how many tour busses stop outside of City Hall on any given day in the summer months? Last summer we lost two 'beautiful' yellow homes on Regent Street, heritage homes that could have easily been saved, when there was an open lot just up the street on the corner of Charlotte and Regent. Tourists will be less and less inclined to visit Fredericton if we keep erasing it's past. I'm all for 'progress ' as you say, however progress isn't always 'moving forward'. I welcome new builds, many of us do, but why can they not be built on existing lots that are already vacant? Or put in places that do not already have historic structures. Heritage should belong to us all, not simply those who can afford to own it. If I had had $7,000,000 then I would have purchased all of these properties and saved them. However only a few people can afford to do such things. I'm sure no one jumped on these purchases because no one would have assumed that a buyer would demolish them. St. Dunstan's was turned into apartments as was York House, restoration is possible, you can mix old and new. Respectfully, MK Louie Youssef Louie Youssef @Marcus Kingston You're making an awful lot of assumptions. Two homes were destroyed, you have no idea what condition they were in, or what was needed to make them efficient. I do, because I owned them. Now 16 families will be able to live where previously 3 could. You take a very simplistic view of development. It's not up to just one person to say "oh, there's some vacant property, I think I'll have it and build something". That's not how it works. Not everything can be saved, for both practical and financial reasons. Cities are growing, and everyone has a right to live in them. Just because a few people think something is pretty, it doesn't mean that saving that house, and denying many others the right to live in a city is the best thing to do. It's not right to target a specific development that doesn't have any restrictions of demolition on it after the fact. That's a policy that needs to be in place before investment is made. I'm against it, but I respect what the majority says. That's how a democratic society works. Shawn McShane Shawn McShane @Louie Youssef New York City held onto a significant number of structures that date all the way back to the middle of the 17th century. Louie Youssef Louie Youssef @Jason jeandron What is heritage exactly? Is it any house that's old? Isn't a house just something made of sticks and stones? I would say that what makes a home important are the memories that are made inside of it. Those memories are important to the people who made them. Beauty is subjective. Some people may like old architecture, some people may like contemporary. There is no right or wrong. To me, people should be able to do what they like with private property, while respecting the laws that are in place. As far as pollution, wetlands, etc, I'm not sure why that's part of this commentary. But that's your right. Shawn McShane Shawn McShane @Louie Youssef Do all the neighbors appreciate having 16 families, the noise and traffic? Did it make their own property value go down? Dundonald Street area property owners say they have enough apartments on their street and they don't want another...Elzayat said he will make two-bedroom units to entice families. "A single family home or an apartment, they're family dwellings. Maybe you should change your thinking on that." - May 20th, 2010 Jim Cyr Jim Cyr @Louie Youssef Louie, your point is valid. However, the building is not 100 years old. It's not even 150 years old. It's 200 years old. And we are not Europe; we have very few old buildings. Jim Cyr Jim Cyr @Jim Cyr Oh, and Louie, one more thing: functional apartments can literally be built almost anywhere. That's just a fact of life. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Emilien Forest Nope David R. Amos David R. Amos @Marcus Kingston Methinks that you have lots of time to type but not to talk N'esy Pas? Roy Nicholl Roy Nicholl @Louie Youssef wrote "It's called progress. Getting rid of something to build something better, that will provide badly needed housing, shouldn't be discouraged.: The problem is that what we are building may be newer, but is not always better. Nor is it even significantly more efficient. Very few of the apartment buildings erected in the City in the past 25 years will see a 100th birthday let alone 200. With respect to the Risteen Building (Significance of the original portion of the building being it was the first cut stone building in the City (perhaps province) and was the home of New Brunswick's first Surveyor General), I understand Gabriel's conundrum. I had looked at this building (and the surrounding properties) a year or two earlier with the intention of incorporating the Lockwood house into a Passivhaus mixed-use complex, but, in the end, could not reduce the risk sufficiently to move forward. Shawn McShane Colin Seeley Too bad. Gallant and the money tree is gone. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Colin Seeley Nope Shawn McShane Here is the problem with all of the comments on this article: People are posting their opinions about the fate of a property, and trying to cast the owner in a bad light, when in reality he is not doing anything wrong. To the people who are calling this building a “heritage building” – if that is so, why does it not have a designation? Shouldn’t that be your avenue, trying to get a designation, rather than badmouthing law-abiding property owners? To those who object to building higher density housing, shouldn’t your avenue be to change the zoning bylaws if you want to prevent more apartments in the city, not bashing property owners who are not breaking any rules? And finally, what makes any of you authorities on what has value and what doesn’t? Your own opinion? Because it doesn’t seem like it is backed by any democratic process. Jim Cyr Jim Cyr @ It's a tourism thing. Tear down enough of these old buildings, to put up bland apartment blocks, and pretty soon people like me stop wanting to visit Fredericton. 1,000 people per year who didn't spend that $1,000 in Fredericton equals a loss per year of one million dollars . Ten million dollars over ten years. It's all about the money: does Fredericton want that ten million dollars, or not?? (If it had no competition, then of course the question would be moot. However, it DOES have competition in the "semi-quaint old cities in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia" category.....Saint John, Moncton and Halifax.) Shawn McShane Shawn McShane @ Anonymous City councils change zoning by-laws to ALLOW higher density in order to collect more money and to collect on NEW building permits. The property owner/developer goes to the the same councils, the developer hears the public complaints and doesn't care as long has he gets approval from the council. He gives not one whit about the public and neither does the council. Follow the money. David R. Amos David R. Amos @ Methinks we all should who are you N'esy Pas? Shawn McShane Jim Cyr Let me just as you: what kind of city tears down a 200 year-old, perfectly functional building to put up APARTMENTS?? A city that has tons of 200 year-old buildings, I guess....... Shawn McShane Shawn McShane @Jim Cyr Same kind of city that tears town beautiful mature trees at at Officer’s Square against the wishes of the public? David R. Amos David R. Amos @Jim Cyr Methinks that thou doth jest too much N'esy Pas? David R. Amos David R. Amos @Shawn McShane And methinks that thou doth protest too much N'esy Pas? Shawn McShane John Young Fredericton is turning into pressboard paradise. Structurally sound old buildings systemically torn down for profit and greed. Officer’s Square is being converted to Coney Island, while Main St. looks like Las Vegas Strip. Our city is losing its historical identity and beauty. David R. Amos David R. Amos @John Young YUP David R. Amos David R. Amos Methinks some folks may enjoy knowing a bit of my conversation that I just had with my friend Carl Risteen N'esy Pas? In a nutshell Carl said that his home is considered a heritage home and he can't change the colour of even a shingle with Fat Fred City's permission and that the reports of people trying to buy it are pure BS. I told him that he should register with CBC and tell the folks himself Carl said he can't be bothered and was going for a walk and gave me his permission to state this. Shawn McShane Shawn McShane @David R. Amos Carl Risteen lives in the house that his great-grandfather built adjacent to the building and it is heritage but the 200 year old Risteen building itself is not heritage? Something smells David R. Amos David R. Amos @Shawn McShane YUP Ray Bungay Ray Bungay Very simple to per like Heritage enthusiast Mr. Marcus Kingston, is to find out the value of that property now, plus what the value is now, plus the value of the property after the new construction is complete minus the demolition and then make an offer to buy it. I not then leave the owner alone to do what he/they want to do with it. We see this almost yearly here in Saint John most recently the old falling apart Jelly Bean homes and old Sydney Street Court House. Public monies should no be used to save old buildings rather private money should if it can be raised and a specific time frame to fix up or in the end tearing it down. Anyone in Fredericton with very deep pockets? No one showed up in Saint John for the Jelly Bean homes and no private developer has come forth for the court house. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Ray Bungay Methinks folks should follow the money right now not after the fact N'esy Pas? Shawn McShane Bob Smith For those crying and moaning about this, put your money where talk is directed. Want to save the "historic buildings" in Fredericton and St. John? Buy them or allow developers to fix the properties up without red tape and complaints when a single brick is moved or replaced. Media always finds folks like Kingston to interview about this but these same individuals seem to have only words and no money.. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Bob Smith Methinks Mr Higgs and his Minister of Tourism, Heritage and Culture Robert Gauvin as Minister of Tourism, Heritage and Culture should step up to the plate and classify it a "historic building" It is located in the Capital District N'esy Pas? Roy Nicholl Roy Nicholl @Bob Smith Some of us are doing just that. Shawn McShane Trevis L. Kingston North America has no "old" buildings. 1492...was the starting date of 4 sided structures as we know them on this continent. A 200 year old structure here is socially as valuable as a 2000 year old Italian Cathedral. Canadians travel to the four corners of the world to see what?....old buildings ! But we will never have any for tourists to see if we tear them all down. People pay good money to see Kings Landing and the Acadian Village. (1783 plus.) Fredericton...the City of Stately...apartment buildings? Harold Benson Harold Benson @Trevis L. Kingston I'll trade ya David R. Amos David R. Amos @Harold Benson "Fredericton...the City of Stately...apartment buildings?" Methinks Mayor Mikey and his cohorts no doubt like the sound of that Perhaps they will change Fat Fred City's slogan N'esy Pas? Shawn McShane Shawn McShane That building is a brick schitt house. Solid. So replace it with another particle board apartment? There was a developer in Moncton who did the opposite...Heritage Developments Ltd?. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Shawn McShane Methinks the latest Minister of Heritage Mr Gauvin is no doubt very proud of Moncton's efforts to preserve it history N'esy Pas? David R. Amos Content disabled. David R. Amos @Shawn McShane Methinks the folks should checkout the history swirling around the Lockwood House N'esy Pas? http://www.biographi.ca/en/ Harold Benson Harold Benson Git them Gagetown boys up here with one of them newfangled tanks. Problem solved, training to boot. David R. Amos David R. Amos @Harold Benson Methinks Sam does not agree with such nonsense N'esy Pas? David R. Amos David R. Amos Carl Risteen told me to checkout the history swirling around Anthony Lockwood. Methinks because the Receiver General was such a comical scallywag the cornerstone of Queen Street should certainly be preserved and our history become better known N'esy Pas? David R. Amos Content disabled. David R. Amos The Fat Lady is about to sing Carl I trust that you cheered up and got a chuckle out of the comments | |
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