Tuesday, 9 July 2024

Fredericton council agrees to sell historic building valued at $475K for $1K

 

Fredericton council agrees to sell historic building valued at $475K for $1K

Councillors not unanimous in vote to Lemont House in downtown

Fredericton city councillors have agreed to sell a historically significant building valued at almost half a million dollars to a private developer for $1,000, under the condition the company restore it and put it up for rent.

Councillors were split in their vote on Monday to sell the Lemont House to State Street Properties, with some voicing concerns about the sale price and about how far the terms of the agreement went in requiring the developer to charge affordable rents.

"I do just feel like we are giving a very good deal here to this developer," Coun. Cassandra LeBlanc said.

"I know not everyone agrees with that opinion, but I feel that, you know, this will end up in just a few years as expensive apartments along the water in a historic property … and all we are asking is for $1,000."

A woman sits in front of a microphone inside Fredericton council chambers. Coun. Cassandra LeBlanc voted against selling the Lemont House to State Street Properties, saying the agreement didn't go far enough to ensure affordable rents. (Aidan Cox/CBC)

The Second Empire-style building at 605 Queen St. was constructed in the 1880s and was lived in by the Lemont family, who were furniture dealers and owned a store on Queen Street.

In 2021, the City of Fredericton acquired the property from Aquilini Properties as part of an undisclosed settlement following a lawsuit Aquilini launched against the city in 2019.

Aquilini owns the Crown Plaza and had at one time used the Lemont House to accommodate long-term guests.

But for years leading up to the city's acquisition of it, the building sat vacant, prompting concerns from heritage advocates about its deteriorating condition.

An archival black and white photo shows part of downtown Fredericton in 1905. The Lemont House pictured in 1905. (NB Provincial Archives P210-724)

Since acquiring the Lemont House, the city granted it heritage status and made a public request for proposals, which led to the successful submission by State Street Properties.

CBC News requested an interview with State Street Properties on Monday afternoon but did not receive a response.

The company's website shows it owns several residential and commercial buildings, including on Queen, Regent and Dundonald streets.

Limit on rent prices

According to the development agreement between the city and State Street Properties, the average base rent for the 17 apartment units must be below the average new construction rental rates set out by Canada Housing and Mortgage Corporation for a period of five years.

Michael Baldwin, director of corporate services for the city, said in an interview the apartments would be bachelor and one-bedroom units.

According to the CMHC, the average rent for newly constructed one-bedroom apartments was $1,180 in 2023, and $993 for bachelor apartments.

However, the development agreement between the city and State Street Properties says that limit on rent prices is subject to being higher, according to the consumer price index and property tax increases.

During the meeting, LeBlanc tried introducing a motion to amend that agreement so that the cap on rent prices would be in place for 10 years instead of five.

Her motion also proposed eliminating the caveat allowing rent to be higher subject to consumer price index and property tax increases, but no other seconded the motion.

Fairness up for debate

The resolution to sell the Lemont House narrowly passed on Monday, with Deputy Mayor Jocelyn Pike, and councillors Greg Ericson, LeBlanc, Jason Lejeune and Ruth Breen voting against it.

Breen said she had concerns about the potential affordability of the rental units, but even more so about the fairness of the deal for the city.

"My deepest concern is that this property is valued at roughly half a million dollars, and we're selling it to a very successful developer for $1,000," she said, before the vote.

"If that's the best the market can do, I think we need to explore other options in how this can best be repurposed to serve the residents of Fredericton as a whole."

A woman speaks into microphones while standing in Fredericton council chambers. Coun. Ruth Breen said she thought the city wasn't getting a fair deal by selling the Lemont House for $1,000. (Aidan Cox/CBC)

Coun. Eric Megarity said he thinks sale price is fair for the city, considering no other private interests proposed better options, and the fact the Lemont House will likely require "a lot of money" in repairs.

"If we want to save a heritage building we have to throw something in there," Megarity said.

"And I think what we're doing is very fair and reasonable. We will get the taxes. We're bringing the heritage building back for I don't know how many decades."

According to the development agreement, the developer must begin development within 12 months of the sale, "with the aim of bringing the housing stock online as soon as is reasonably possible."

The agreement also requires the development and maintenance of the building to comply in all respects to its heritage designation pursuant to city bylaws.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR


Aidan Cox

Journalist

Aidan Cox is a journalist for the CBC based in Fredericton. He can be reached at aidan.cox@cbc.ca and followed on Twitter @Aidan4jrn.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices 
 
 
31 Comments
 

David Amos

Another big score for some fat cat in Fat Fred City
 
Dan Lee
Reply to David Amos
taxpayers supporting fton really helps............i can get you a property and building for a 1000
 
 
David Amos
 "Since acquiring the Lemont House, the city granted it heritage status and made a public request for proposals"

Deja Vu Anyone???

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/risteen-heritage-fredericton-1.4993884
 
 
 
Al Clark
Valued at? Who is willing to pay 475?? Anyone?

David Amos
Reply to Al Clark
Why bother when your buddies know they can do a little backroom politicking and get it for a grand?

 
 
Jos Allaire
How come all of a sudden, brown envelopes come to mind❓

David Amos
Reply to Jos Allaire
Because logic demands it

 
 
Albalita Rose
Wait for the developer to claim the old building can't be saved and needs to be bulldozed...and presto you have a nice lot for $1,000....
 
David Amos
Reply to Albalita Rose
Bingo

 
 
Jean Ansley
Why didn't the city lease it to the developer with say a 50 year lease at something nominal with a percent of units being affordable?

That way the city retains the asset, the developer can make a profit by not having to buy land, and some people will get affordable apartments.
 
Albalita Rose
Reply to Jean Ansley
Uh well it looks like the developer didn't have to buy land....
 
David Amos
Reply to Jean Ansley
Dream on
 
Jean Ansley
Reply to David Amos 
I don't know, seems like a plan to me.
 
 
 
Alex Stevens
Privatize the profits. Socialize the cost.

David Amos
Reply to Alex Stevens
Well put

 
 
Ian McIntyre
Cassandra, you are 100% right. But of course, where would we be without Fredericton city council narrow minded short sightedness? Oh, right! Roads wouldn’t have been built with lamp posts in the middle of the road, homelessness wouldn’t have increased by 50% in the last year alone, opioid deaths wouldn’t be at record-breaking levels, and literacy rates among local high school grads wouldn’t hover around 50%. Hey! Does the council know how many lives could have been changed/saved with the $474K they just threw away? I’m gonna say, yes, they do. Good work, folks.

David Amos
Reply to Ian McIntyre
Surely you jest

 
 
stephen magee
Friend of a Friend deal?

David Amos
Reply to stephen magee
Par for the course

 
 
Jack Bell
"this will end up in just a few years as expensive apartments "

That will be super helpful to the 1% who can afford it.

David Amos
Reply to Jack Bell
Yup
 


Luc Newsome

Not one of the councilors would make the same deal if they personally owned the building….but since it’s your money and not theirs it’s easy to give it away…..

David Amos
Reply to Luc Newsome
I concur

 
 
Kevin Archibald
So which Coun.'s brother in law bought the property?

David Amos
Reply to Kevin Archibald
Do tell

 
 
Lorraine Morgan
As usual, New Brunswickers selling themselves short. What a score for the developer. I would have given the city $2,000!

David Amos
Reply to Lorraine Morgan
I would have given them 10 times that
 
Andrew Clarkson
Reply to Lorraine Morgan
So why did you hesitate?
 
Graham McCormack
Reply to David Amos  
So why didn't you?
 

No Comments??? 

 

Fredericton nixes plan to add parking spaces along Waterloo Row

Residents express concerns over safety, road congestion and heritage preservation

City councillors voted Monday to remove Waterloo Row from a motion that would add more street parking to some Fredericton roads, after dozens of residents expressed concern about the plan.

During a council meeting in late June, city staff asked council to create about 50 new spaces on the eastern side of Waterloo Row between Lansdowne and Alexandra streets.

Waterloo Row offers a scenic route for motorists heading from the eastern end of Fredericton to its downtown, with views of the water on one side and opulent homes on the other. The road also serves as the face of Fredericton's heritage preservation area.

The proposal was met with criticism from Ward 1 Coun. Margo Sheppard, who said the addition of parking spaces seemed "antithetical" to the picturesque nature of the street and the neighbourhood it borders. 

At a council meeting on Monday, Ward 11 Coun. Jason LeJeune said dozens of residents expressed concern about the proposal.

A man speaks while standing up in downtown Fredericton. Ward 11 Coun. Jason LeJeune said dozens of residents were concerned about the proposal. (CBC News)

"Overall, residents are not experiencing the impacts that we are trying to resolve," he said. 

LeJeune said residents he has heard from are worried the council is working to resolve issues that aren't supported by data and creating potential safety hazards in the process. 

He said some residents thought the idea of narrowing the street to make room for parking spaces could create a delay in response times for first responders, and parallel parking could cause congestion and potential collisions. 

"An overall concern was that just adding parking to arterial streets could have a lot of downstream impacts," he said. "Are we going to add parking spaces to other arterial streets like Woodstock Road, Canada Street, these connectors that we rely on to move traffic?"  

Margo Sheppard sits at in her chair at the Fredericton council table. Coun. Margo Sheppard, vice-chair of the city's environmental stewardship committee, criticized the motion that would have involved adding parking spaces to Waterloo Row. (Aidan Cox/CBC)

He said residents also expressed worries about heritage preservation. 

Sheppard repeated her concerns about the proposal on Monday, calling the road a "gateway to the city."

After debating the issue, councillors approved an amendment to remove Waterloo Row from a motion to  allow parking changes on a handful of other streets in the city. The revised motion then received third reading. 

The city had proposed the parking changes in an effort to improve safety and accessibility for families who use Morell Park. 

Sheppard said the city should look at alternate options to create more parking in the downtown, including expanding the current parking area in the park. That would require using part of the field in Morell Park, which is currently used for recreational sports, including baseball and soccer.

A man leaning on a wooden desk in front of him City of Fredericton Ward 11 Coun. Greg Ericson said the city should look to Morell Park to add more parking. (Jennifer Sweet/CBC)

Ward 8 Coun. Greg Ericson said that location would be worth looking into as a solution. 

"I think we all can recognize that baseball field down there and the two soccer pitches are not regulated professional pitches that can't be altered in their size and orientation," he said. 

"There's a lot of land down there and I'm sure we can find ways to accommodate the overflow parking requirements for venues."

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Isabelle Leger is a reporter based in Fredericton. 
 
 


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/fredericton-garrison-fire-report-1.7258411

Garrison District building that was set on fire may be headed for demolition

Compound would be ‘radically transformed and cheapened’ if building is torn down, historian says

A Garrison District building in downtown Fredericton that was built nearly 200 years ago is in danger of being demolished after it was set on fire in March.

The building has undergone a fire-damage assessment to see if it could be salvaged, said a spokesperson for the Department of National Defence, which owns the building at 11 Carleton St.

But the damage "has resulted in a complete structural, architectural, electrical, and mechanical loss," Kened Sadiku said.

Another spokesperson said "it is recommended that the building be demolished due to the extent of damage."

Firefighters spray water on a building in Fredericton. Firefighters are seen battling a fire at the old militia arms store in Fredericton in March. (Aidan Cox/CBC)

The department would not provide a copy of the fire assessment report, saying it could only be released via an access to information request. 

The building, which was set on fire in March, was known as the militia arms store and dates back to 1832. It was used as a hospital starting in 1882, and it became the residence for the Carleton Street Armoury caretaker in 1918, the department says.

Sadiku said in a statement that while the Fredericton Military Compound is designated as a National Historic Site of Canada, the building itself is not, "as it does not possess significant heritage characteristics."

WATCH | 'To tear it down would be a cultural disaster':
 

'It's simply wrong': Architectural historian says loss of armoury building would be a tragedy

Duration 1:00
Garrison District building known as the militia arms store was constructed in 1832, used as a hospital after 1882, and later as a residence for the Carleton Street Armoury caretaker.

But John Leroux, an architectural historian in Fredericton, said it isn't accurate to say the militia arms store isn't a designated historic site or that it doesn't possess significant heritage characteristics. 

"The military compound comprises four specific buildings, and it's even listed on the plaque that the militia arms store is … one of those," he said. 

"It lists that building in the exact same capacity as the other three buildings there. And [the designation] speaks specifically about the character-defining elements of the militia arms store."

John Leroux poses for a photo John Leroux, an architectural historian, said more needs to be done to save the building. (Aniekan Etuhube/CNC)

The Parks Canada National Historic Site of Canada designation for the Fredericton Military Compound can be found online and says that only four buildings remain from the original British garrison, including the militia arms store. It says the buildings are representative of early 19th century British military architecture. 

The designation lists key elements that contribute to the heritage and character of the militia arms store such as its rectangular wooden two-storey massing, its steep roof, balanced facade and inset chimneys.

"If it was torn down, the national historic site designation of the military compound would be radically transformed and cheapened," said Leroux.

A boarded up building     A photo from July 2024 shows the boarded up building that has been deemed a 'complete structural, architectural, electrical, and mechanical loss' by the Department of National Defense. (Aniekan Etuhube/CBC)

The City of Fredericton is not involved in the ownership of the building but it was renting it at the time of the fire. The city did not provide an interview for this story.

Leroux said when looking at the outside of the building, much of the architectural value is still visible. 

He said he wishes the Department of National Defence would speak to others who have a stake in historic downtown buildings and make sure that the right experts are consulted regarding the importance of heritage buildings. 

Tearing down the building would leave a hole in downtown Fredericton, Leroux said.

"We need to do better than this," he said. "There should be no reason not to try harder to salvage that building. It's easy to say 'tear it down,' but what then? Then, the city is that much poorer for it. 

"It's one of the most important buildings in Fredericton."

A smiling man wearing a white t-shirt stands in front of a boarded up building Harold Skaarup sits on the board of directors for the York-Sunbury Historical Society. He wants to see the history of the Garrison District building be preserved by tearing it down and rebuilding it. (Hannah Rudderham/CBC)

On top of the architectural value of the old militia arms store, it also holds extensive military history, he said.

Another historian, Harold Skaarup, who sits on the board of directors of the York-Sunbury Historical Society, agrees the building is part of the city's heritage and history.

But he does agree that the building should be kept as it currently stands.

"It's an eyesore," he said. "Yes, we want to save our history. No, we don't want the city looking like it's a bag of bones."

Skaarup said that as far as he can tell, the condition of the building is bad, and if those responsible for the fire report believe it needs to come down, then it should.

A sign on the side of a building that says "Historic Garrison District" The old militia arms store is part of the Historic Garrison District in Fredericton. The military complex is part of a National Historic Site of Canada. (CBC)

But he still wants the history preserved and thinks the best solution would be to tear down the burned building and rebuild it.

Skaarup said this could take a considerable amount of time and money. It would need to go on a list of Department of National Defence buildings needing repairs or replacements.

But he thinks the most practical solution would be to demolish the building and have concrete plans in place to one day rebuild. 

"If it's restored in the shape that it's in now, to be historically significant and in conjunction with the original plans, then it's saving the history that makes it significant," said Skaarup.

"if it's sitting on the foundation of a historic building, then it itself will be a historic building. It's just the practicality of it."

ABOUT THE AUTHOR


Hannah Rudderham is a reporter with CBC New Brunswick. She grew up in Cape Breton, N.S., and moved to Fredericton in 2018. You can send story tips to hannah.rudderham@cbc.ca.

With files from Oliver Pearson


22 Comments
 

David Amos
Oh My My
 
 
 
Allison Zane  
And the arsonist was 'arrested' and promptly released - such is the way in Trudeau's Canada.
 
G. Timothy Walton
Reply to Allison Zane
Feel free to pay the taxes required to have enough remand space and pay the legal fees of fighting arrestees that sue based on Supreme Court rulings on bail eligibility.

We tried going too far in the past and so we're stuck too far the other way now.

David Amos
Content Deactivated
Reply to Allison Zane
Yet 2 of the Couts 4 are still locked up 
 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-conspiracy-trial-lethbridge-war-1.7252752
 
David Amos
Reply to Allison Zane
Hmmm



Lauchlin Murray   
"It's one of the most important buildings in Fredericton." Sure, and the Black Plague was important, too. Saying something is 'important' is meaningless. It also diminishes the value of the better heritage structures in the City. DND has too much on its plate to give a hoot about an eyesore structure with almost zero value for Fredericton's future. Clinging onto a poorly maintained tinder box with such little chance of meeting anyone's building codes and regulations is beyond silly. For every 'architectural history buff' claiming it has value showing us how things were done at one time, that's about as valid as saying every outhouse should be saved. That section of that street has been ugly since the 1960s. It has been underused and under taxed. The feds should sell it for a dollar to the City and let it be rezoned and repurposed ASAP. Everytime the state of some misshapen sagging clapboard eyesore in NB comes into doubt...some outnumbered couch warrior screams 'heritage' ... 'important' ... and 'someone else should pay for it to be braced and buttressed.' Horse puckey.
 
 
 
Alex Butt 
I am sure that they could sell it for a $1000 bucks or two!
 
John Montgomery
Reply to Alex Butt 
If it's such a good deal then why don't you buy it?
 
Jack Bell 
Reply to John Montgomery
The land it sits on is worth a little bit more than $1000.
 
David Amos
Reply to Jack Bell  
Yup
 
David Amos
Content Deactivated
Reply to Alex Butt
Trudeau The Younger would have to get a piece of the action before he let it g
Jack Bell 
Reply to David Amos
Funny how those old articles remained open for posting for more than a few hours. 
 
MR Cain
Reply to Jack Bell  
It feeds the social media addicts, regardless of the subject or lack of interest. 
 
David Amos
Reply to Jack Bell   
Why not reply to me??? 
 
 
 
 

Saturday 26 January 2019

Fate of 1820s stone building in Fredericton causes worry

https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies




Replying to and 49 others
Methinks CBC would realize by now its not wise to continue blocking my comments on issues that concern me. It merely causes me to post more and blog about it N'esy Pas?

https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/01/fate-of-1820s-stone-building-in.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/fredericton-council-risteen-building-1.5099481 



Fredericton councillors brush up on heritage process before Risteen proposal arrives

 
 
 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/risteen-heritage-fredericton-1.4993884

Fate of 1820s stone building in Fredericton causes worry

Owner wants to put up new apartments on property in downtown Fredericton


The Risteen Sash and Door factory was established in the 1870s in one of the first stone cut buildings in New Brunswick. (Provincial Archives)

Concern is growing for an old stone building in downtown Fredericton, once the home of a thriving woodworking factory and now possibly headed for demolition.

The Risteen building at the corner of Queen and Smythe streets, the first cut stone building in New Brunswick, could be torn down to make way for a new development.

Gabriel Elzayat says he wants to put apartments on the property.

The prospect saddens Carl Risteen, great-grandson of Joseph Risteen, who took the building over in the 1870s.

"This building here is the cornerstone basically of Queen Street, so it's the first house in Queen Street," Risteen said.

He still lives in the house that his great-grandfather built adjacent to the building.


The Risteen building was erected in the 1820s but Joseph Risteen turned it into a woodworking plant toward the end of the 19th century. (Jon Collicotte CBC News)

"It would be a shame to see it gone," he said.

It was built in the 1820s by Anthony Lockwood, surveyor general of New Brunswick. When Joseph Ristine took it over, he created the Risteen Sash and Door factory.

"My great-grandfather bought the burned-out shell in about 1870 or thereabouts and fixed up the interior and built the big extension on the back — the big wooden part on the back — for his woodworking factory," Risteen said.

The products of that factory can still be found in the finishings and doorways of the New Brunswick Legislature, said Risteen.


Carl Risteen's great-grandfather created the Risteen Sash and Door factory. (Jon Collicott CBC News)

But the building itself may not last much longer. It's one of several buildings developer Elzayat has acquired on the block.

He said he's not sure whether the building will be torn down or salvaged, but he's open to ideas about incorporating it into his new development.

The city said it hasn't received an application for development yet, but tenants are already on the move.
Ross Davidson, whose kitchen supply shop has been in the building for decades, has been told to vacate by the end of February.

"We got a notice from our landlord that the property was going to be redeveloped and that was it," Davidson said.


Marcus Kingston wants to find a way to save the Risteen building in Fredericton. (Jon Collicott CBC News)

Some are worried about what the loss of the building will mean for the city's heritage.
Heritage enthusiast Marcus Kingston wants to find a way to save it.

"It's been sitting on the spot for … nearly 200 years and it deserves to stay," he said.

Despite its history, there's no heritage designation to protect the Risteen building, which means developers are free to do whatever they want with it.


CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices
 
 
 
79 Comments

 
David Amos
My friend Carl Risteen has passed but he is fondly remembered by many

  

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
Cheer up Carl the Fat Lady ain't sung yet



  Shawn McShane 
Shawn McShane
Developers are learning that heritage buildings can be money-makers. 80 per cent of millennials “would rather spend money at businesses supporting efforts to preserve and protect buildings, architecture and neighbourhoods over those that don’t. They also choose to shop and eat in “historic downtowns . . . and places with historic appeal . . . over malls and planned commercial districts or recently constructed places.”

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Shawn McShane Methinks everybody knows why that I would not bet the farm on your opinions N'esy Pas?

Shawn McShane
Shawn McShane
@David R. Amos Not my opinion. A U.S. study commissioned by the National Trust for Historic Preservation, Edge Research and the American Express Foundation.

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Shawn McShane Methinks you know what I think of Yankee opinions However I bet you didn't know that my wife was one of the top travel agents working American Express years ago N'esy Pas?



Shawn McShane 
Johnny Horton
That’s Gabriel’s style. No respect for his tenants, or history,

He has a bad habit of letting leases expiring and then telling you to get out, a kids any calls or visits to his office she discuss your lease.

Johnny Horton
Johnny Horton
@Johnny Horton
** avoids (not a kids)

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Johnny Horton Too Funny



 Shawn McShane 
Ken Stephens
If someone owns a property and wants to tear down a very old building like this it's his decision to make, not ours. Perhaps these people who are upset by this can all chip in and buy it from him. The way these things work is that something is there for a while but eventually becomes too old and it gets replaced, and we end up with more value out of the deal as well.

Johnny Horton
Johnny Horton
@Ken Stephens

Yep value. That’s all that matters. Gotta Aximize that tax base!

yep money, that’s all that matters. Gotta own every property!

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Ken Stephens Yea Right

Marcus Kingston
Marcus Kingston
@Ken Stephens - It's clear that some people in Fredericton seem to care very little about the built heritage that surrounds us, and makes our city unique. However, there are equally those who do care. The issue shouldn't always come down to how much tax revenue can be gained from a new building. We have a moral obligation to retain certain structures for the enjoyment of future generations. I'm not against all new builds, it can be a part of growing a strong and vibrant city I agree. So too is maintaining what's already here. Perhaps we should tear down Christ Church Cathedral and put the new Starbucks there instead of in Kings Place? It could draw more people to that area of the city.

Respectfully

MK

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marcus Kingston Hmmm




Shawn McShane 
Mack Leigh
One thing I greatly admire about many European countries, Great Britain and New England, USA is that they preserve their historical buildings, statues, trees, etc. ..... Way to quick now to tear down, cut down or remove important pieces of our history.... Hopefully they will be able to save this landmark..

Johnny Horton
Johnny Horton
@Mack Leigh
Gabriel is buying up and taking all the land in the area. Not much chance he’ll save it, or sell it t a preservation group.

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Johnny Horton So you say



 Shawn McShane 
Mack Leigh
We have become a ...throw a way ..... society ....... No thought to the preservation of anything..


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Mack Leigh YUP

Alex Butt
Alex Butt
@Mack Leigh Yes we have become a disposable society, but we have to face facts that New Brunswick is broke and unfortunately there are bigger issues that require funding!

Mack Leigh
Mack Leigh
@Alex Butt

There are ways to preserve our historical buildings and turn them into money makers.... Erasing our historical buildings is a sad statement as to what society has become and the direction it is headed..

David R. Amos
Content disabled.
David R. Amos
@Mack Leigh YUP

Shawn McShane
Shawn McShane
@Alex Butt Historical places bring in tourists and locals. To be honest I am sick of beautiful old buildings full of character being torn down and replaced with cheap looking construction with a 40 yr life. Why not turn the building into apartments? Sell them. Sell a piece of history.

Louie Youssef
Louie Youssef
@Mack Leigh What's sad about it? It's sad to move forward? I don't think anyone who puts up a building thinks it will be around forever.

Shawn McShane
Shawn McShane
@Louie Youssef Obviously the Pharisees did, those pyramids are still around.

Jim Cyr
Jim Cyr
@Louie Youssef But Mack's point is valid: we absolutely have become a throwaway society. In fact, the expectation now for any building put up by a government entity is that it will last 40 years. (It's right in the specs/contracts). 40 years!! That number used to be at least 75 years when I was a kid.

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Shawn McShane Methinks you meant the Pharaohs N'esy Pas?

Shawn McShane
Shawn McShane
@David R. Amos Lols Yes Pharaohs


Alex Butt
Alex Butt
@Shawn McShane I agree but we have to face the fact that NB is broke, and not that many people travel to Fredericton to see the old buildings. Unless someone with lots of cash is willing to buy it, then we shouldn't complain that someone wants the land to build something and make money.

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Alex Butt Methinks you are a bit redundant N'esy Pas?








Shawn McShane 
Alex Butt
I love the heritage idea, and everyone is all for keeping such buildings, yet no one is willing to face the hard facts that it will cost lots of money and very few are willing to put their money where their mouth is. Perfect example was the Fredericton train station. Everyone cried to keep the falling apart eye sore, and who ended up paying for it? The tax payers did. Time to wake up and realize that NB is broke and falling apart and need to set real priorities!


David R. Amos
Content disabled.
David R. Amos
@Alex Butt "Time to wake up and realize that NB is broke and falling apart"

Methinks we got the governments we deserve because we overslept N'esy Pas?

David R. Amos
Content disabled.
David R. Amos
@Alex Butt Oh My My Methinks you should ask yourself why my reply to you was blocked N'esy Pas?


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Alex Butt "Perfect example was the Fredericton train station. Everyone cried to keep the falling apart eye sore, and who ended up paying for it? The tax payers did."

Methinks the Irving Clan didn't cry N'esy Pas?


Grant Buote
Grant Buote
@David R. Amos - quick question: why do you keep say "N'esy Pas"? What, exactly , are you trying to say?

Ian Scott
Ian Scott
@Alex Butt And now its a booze store. At our expense.

David R. Amos
Content disabled.
David R. Amos
@Grant Buote Its Chiac

Now Go Figure Who is crazy and who is not

http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/lockwood_anthony_8E.html

However, the political crisis following Lieutenant Governor Smyth’s death on 27 March provided the occasion, if not the inducement, for Lockwood’s spectacular descent into madness.

An interim president of the Council being required, George Leonard*, the octogenarian senior member, was first offered the position, which he declined on the grounds of age. Despite a challenge by supporters of Christopher Billopp, Ward Chipman* assumed the post of administrator on 1 April. The challenges continued however. Lockwood attended the Council meetings on 30 April and on 1 May. Thereafter he absented himself and for the next few weeks his whereabouts are uncertain. By 24 May he had persuaded Leonard to assert his right to the presidency “in the hope that it would produce tranquillity in the province.” Ostensibly to assist in that purpose, Lockwood appointed himself as Leonard’s civil aide-de-camp and inspecting field officer, as well as acting secretary. On 25 May he attempted to disseminate Leonard’s proclamation in Saint John – while at the same time writing a letter to Chipman offering terms for his, Lockwood’s, support. From 25 to 30 May Lockwood behaved with erratic violence in Saint John: issuing threats, brawling, taking up residence in Government House, and gathering an appreciative mob. Dr Paddock attended him with scant success. By the time he returned to Fredericton on 30 May, Lockwood was approaching collapse; on the steamboat General Smyth he scribbled a desperate note to Chipman requesting release from his present public offices since his “ailment” was “subject to increase from confinement.”

David R. Amos
Content disabled.
David R. Amos
@Grant Buote continued

The Council considered Lockwood’s state of mind at their meeting on 31 May, hearing depositions from the doctors who had treated him and from the mayor of Saint John. The following day Lockwood set up a table in Fredericton square, at which he drank coffee, issued proclamations, and reacted pugnaciously to the crowd, before taking horse and riding about the streets firing pistols and declaring himself called to assume the government of the province. By nightfall Lockwood had been arrested and placed in the Fredericton jail. The Council received further evidence from the sheriff of York County on 2 June and were “fully satisfied” of Lockwood’s derangement. Chipman appointed a commission de lunatico inquirendo that day and by 5 June it had determined that Lockwood was legally mad, and had been since 19 May. On 7 June his wife and son petitioned for a committee of custody over his person and estate, which was immediately granted.

When George Shore, Lockwood’s replacement, examined the surveyor general’s office, he found confusion, mutilated documents, and disarray which would take “two extra employees five years to straighten out.” Furthermore, the discrepancy between Lockwood’s receipts as receiver general and the office’s bank deposit amounted to more than £2,000. Although he was moved from the jail to what was, in effect, house-arrest in September, Lockwood and his family had to suffer the public sale of his real and personal estate as the custodial committee sought to recover the missing public monies.



David R. Amos
Content disabled.
David R. Amos
@Alex Butt "Time to wake up and realize that NB is broke and falling apart and need to set real priorities!"

Methinks history can repeat itself The province has seized control of the Lockwood house before N'esy Pas?

http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/lockwood_anthony_8E.html

The following day Lockwood set up a table in Fredericton square, at which he drank coffee, issued proclamations, and reacted pugnaciously to the crowd, before taking horse and riding about the streets firing pistols and declaring himself called to assume the government of the province. By nightfall Lockwood had been arrested and placed in the Fredericton jail. The Council received further evidence from the sheriff of York County on 2 June and were “fully satisfied” of Lockwood’s derangement. Chipman appointed a commission de lunatico inquirendo that day and by 5 June it had determined that Lockwood was legally mad, and had been since 19 May. On 7 June his wife and son petitioned for a committee of custody over his person and estate, which was immediately granted.

When George Shore, Lockwood’s replacement, examined the surveyor general’s office, he found confusion, mutilated documents, and disarray which would take “two extra employees five years to straighten out.” Furthermore, the discrepancy between Lockwood’s receipts as receiver general and the office’s bank deposit amounted to more than £2,000. Although he was moved from the jail to what was, in effect, house-arrest in September, Lockwood and his family had to suffer the public sale of his real and personal estate as the custodial committee sought to recover the missing public monies.

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Grant Buote Methinks you should ask Fat Fred City's infamous blogger or his buddy the Mayor to explain my Chiac to you N'esy Pas?

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Grant Buote Methinksin return I should ask an Urban Planning Technologist if he recalls why I ran in Fat Fred City for a seat in the 39th Parliament Trust that Chucky and Mikey know N'esy Pas?









 Shawn McShane 
Emilien Forest
He owns it, he should be able to do with the way he wants. The Fredericton elite wanna be's should learn to respect that. Enjoy your herbal tea now...


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Emilien Forest How do you spell R.E.S.P.E.C.T ??? Methinks you and your foes the Fredericton elite wanna be's have no clue as to what I am up to N'esy Pas?

Marc LeBlanc
Marc LeBlanc
@Emilien Forest There should be some kind of prize for this post!!!
Finally someone with my sense of humor...now watch we'll get bumped

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marc LeBlanc I have already been bumped twice










 Shawn McShane 
Louie Youssef
Those properties were listed, and for sale for a very long time. Anyone who wanted to save them, or do anything else with them, could have bought them. Just because something is old, it doesn't mean it should stay around forever.

Why should anyone have the right to dictate what all future generations do with private property? There are people around who just love to have a cause to champion, and that's fair. But when someone spends their time, money and energy taking a risk on something, it's not right to try and change the rules of the game, mid game. If tearing down old, inefficient, obsolete buildings was prevented, New York city would never have been built.

It's called progress. Getting rid of something to build something better, that will provide badly needed housing, shouldn't be discouraged.


Emilien Forest
Emilien Forest
@Louie Youssef

Well said!


Jason jeandron
Jason jeandron
@Louie Youssef It's that attitude that saw corporations dump hazardous waste into watercourses, destroy wetlands and pollute the atmosphere a few decades ago. Heritage is a community asset which provides well documented advantages when preserved. Improved community, increased economic benefits from taxes, tourism and jobs creation. And while they fail to follow it, the City has committed to conserving our heritage in their Municipal Plan. As you'll be aware, the City/Province/Nation often has a say in how development occurs, to prevent the loss of life, environment and increasingly heritage. Allowing developers to destroy iur heritage, that others have helped to survive for nearly 2 centuries in this case, is short-sighted. There are other places that developers can build in that will not destroy our non-renewable heritage resources.

Marcus Kingston
Marcus Kingston
@Louie Youssef@Louie Youssef I respect your response, however I also respectfully disagree with your response. This building is old yes, but it has extreme heritage value to the city and the province. People come to Fredericton to see these structures and admire their craftsmanship and design. The New York City that you speak of actually 'landmarks' many of their historic structures as the realize their importance to the history and culture of their city.

If city planners in Fredericton had had their way in the 1960's/70's then the entirety of Queen Street including City Hall would have been demolished. How would this have benefited Fredericton in the long run? Are you aware of how many tour busses stop outside of City Hall on any given day in the summer months?

Last summer we lost two 'beautiful' yellow homes on Regent Street, heritage homes that could have easily been saved, when there was an open lot just up the street on the corner of Charlotte and Regent. Tourists will be less and less inclined to visit Fredericton if we keep erasing it's past. I'm all for 'progress ' as you say, however progress isn't always 'moving forward'. I welcome new builds, many of us do, but why can they not be built on existing lots that are already vacant? Or put in places that do not already have historic structures.

Heritage should belong to us all, not simply those who can afford to own it.

If I had had $7,000,000 then I would have purchased all of these properties and saved them. However only a few people can afford to do such things. I'm sure no one jumped on these purchases because no one would have assumed that a buyer would demolish them. St. Dunstan's was turned into apartments as was York House, restoration is possible, you can mix old and new.

Respectfully,

MK

Louie Youssef
Louie Youssef
@Marcus Kingston You're making an awful lot of assumptions. Two homes were destroyed, you have no idea what condition they were in, or what was needed to make them efficient. I do, because I owned them.
Now 16 families will be able to live where previously 3 could. You take a very simplistic view of development. It's not up to just one person to say "oh, there's some vacant property, I think I'll have it and build something". That's not how it works. Not everything can be saved, for both practical and financial reasons.

Cities are growing, and everyone has a right to live in them. Just because a few people think something is pretty, it doesn't mean that saving that house, and denying many others the right to live in a city is the best thing to do. It's not right to target a specific development that doesn't have any restrictions of demolition on it after the fact. That's a policy that needs to be in place before investment is made.

I'm against it, but I respect what the majority says. That's how a democratic society works.


Shawn McShane
Shawn McShane
@Louie Youssef New York City held onto a significant number of structures that date all the way back to the middle of the 17th century.

Louie Youssef
Louie Youssef
@Jason jeandron What is heritage exactly? Is it any house that's old? Isn't a house just something made of sticks and stones? I would say that what makes a home important are the memories that are made inside of it.

Those memories are important to the people who made them. Beauty is subjective. Some people may like old architecture, some people may like contemporary. There is no right or wrong. To me, people should be able to do what they like with private property, while respecting the laws that are in place.

As far as pollution, wetlands, etc, I'm not sure why that's part of this commentary. But that's your right.

Shawn McShane
Shawn McShane
@Louie Youssef Do all the neighbors appreciate having 16 families, the noise and traffic? Did it make their own property value go down?

Dundonald Street area property owners say they have enough apartments on their street and they don't want another...Elzayat said he will make two-bedroom units to entice families. "A single family home or an apartment, they're family dwellings. Maybe you should change your thinking on that." - May 20th, 2010

Jim Cyr
Jim Cyr
@Louie Youssef Louie, your point is valid. However, the building is not 100 years old. It's not even 150 years old. It's 200 years old. And we are not Europe; we have very few old buildings.

Jim Cyr
Jim Cyr
@Jim Cyr Oh, and Louie, one more thing: functional apartments can literally be built almost anywhere. That's just a fact of life.

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Emilien Forest Nope

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marcus Kingston Methinks that you have lots of time to type but not to talk N'esy Pas?


Roy Nicholl
Roy Nicholl
@Louie Youssef wrote
"It's called progress. Getting rid of something to build something better, that will provide badly needed housing, shouldn't be discouraged.:

The problem is that what we are building may be newer, but is not always better. Nor is it even significantly more efficient. Very few of the apartment buildings erected in the City in the past 25 years will see a 100th birthday let alone 200.

With respect to the Risteen Building (Significance of the original portion of the building being it was the first cut stone building in the City (perhaps province) and was the home of New Brunswick's first Surveyor General), I understand Gabriel's conundrum. I had looked at this building (and the surrounding properties) a year or two earlier with the intention of incorporating the Lockwood house into a Passivhaus mixed-use complex, but, in the end, could not reduce the risk sufficiently to move forward.







Shawn McShane
 Colin Seeley
Too bad. Gallant and the money tree is gone.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Colin Seeley Nope









Shawn McShane
Here is the problem with all of the comments on this article: People are posting their opinions about the fate of a property, and trying to cast the owner in a bad light, when in reality he is not doing anything wrong.
To the people who are calling this building a “heritage building” – if that is so, why does it not have a designation? Shouldn’t that be your avenue, trying to get a designation, rather than badmouthing law-abiding property owners?
To those who object to building higher density housing, shouldn’t your avenue be to change the zoning bylaws if you want to prevent more apartments in the city, not bashing property owners who are not breaking any rules?
And finally, what makes any of you authorities on what has value and what doesn’t? Your own opinion? Because it doesn’t seem like it is backed by any democratic process.


Jim Cyr
Jim Cyr
@ It's a tourism thing. Tear down enough of these old buildings, to put up bland apartment blocks, and pretty soon people like me stop wanting to visit Fredericton. 1,000 people per year who didn't spend that $1,000 in Fredericton equals a loss per year of one million dollars . Ten million dollars over ten years. It's all about the money: does Fredericton want that ten million dollars, or not?? (If it had no competition, then of course the question would be moot. However, it DOES have competition in the "semi-quaint old cities in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia" category.....Saint John, Moncton and Halifax.)

Shawn McShane
Shawn McShane
@ Anonymous City councils change zoning by-laws to ALLOW higher density in order to collect more money and to collect on NEW building permits. The property owner/developer goes to the the same councils, the developer hears the public complaints and doesn't care as long has he gets approval from the council. He gives not one whit about the public and neither does the council. Follow the money.

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@ Methinks we all should who are you N'esy Pas?










 Shawn McShane 
Jim Cyr
Let me just as you: what kind of city tears down a 200 year-old, perfectly functional building to put up APARTMENTS?? A city that has tons of 200 year-old buildings, I guess.......


Shawn McShane
Shawn McShane
@Jim Cyr Same kind of city that tears town beautiful mature trees at at Officer’s Square against the wishes of the public?

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Jim Cyr Methinks that thou doth jest too much N'esy Pas?

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Shawn McShane And methinks that thou doth protest too much N'esy Pas?










 Shawn McShane 
John Young
Fredericton is turning into pressboard paradise. Structurally sound old buildings systemically torn down for profit and greed. Officer’s Square is being converted to Coney Island, while Main St. looks like Las Vegas Strip. Our city is losing its historical identity and beauty.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@John Young YUP









David R. Amos 
David R. Amos
Methinks some folks may enjoy knowing a bit of my conversation that I just had with my friend Carl Risteen N'esy Pas?

In a nutshell Carl said that his home is considered a heritage home and he can't change the colour of even a shingle with Fat Fred City's permission and that the reports of people trying to buy it are pure BS. I told him that he should register with CBC and tell the folks himself Carl said he can't be bothered and was going for a walk and gave me his permission to state this.


Shawn McShane
Shawn McShane
@David R. Amos Carl Risteen lives in the house that his great-grandfather built adjacent to the building and it is heritage but the 200 year old Risteen building itself is not heritage?

Something smells

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Shawn McShane YUP










Ray Bungay 
Ray Bungay
Very simple to per like Heritage enthusiast Mr. Marcus Kingston, is to find out the value of that property now, plus what the value is now, plus the value of the property after the new construction is complete minus the demolition and then make an offer to buy it. I not then leave the owner alone to do what he/they want to do with it. We see this almost yearly here in Saint John most recently the old falling apart Jelly Bean homes and old Sydney Street Court House. Public monies should no be used to save old buildings rather private money should if it can be raised and a specific time frame to fix up or in the end tearing it down. Anyone in Fredericton with very deep pockets? No one showed up in Saint John for the Jelly Bean homes and no private developer has come forth for the court house.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Ray Bungay Methinks folks should follow the money right now not after the fact N'esy Pas?










Shawn McShane 
Bob Smith
For those crying and moaning about this, put your money where talk is directed. Want to save the "historic buildings" in Fredericton and St. John? Buy them or allow developers to fix the properties up without red tape and complaints when a single brick is moved or replaced. Media always finds folks like Kingston to interview about this but these same individuals seem to have only words and no money..


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Bob Smith Methinks Mr Higgs and his Minister of Tourism, Heritage and Culture
Robert Gauvin as Minister of Tourism, Heritage and Culture should step up to the plate and classify it a "historic building" It is located in the Capital District N'esy Pas?

Roy Nicholl
Roy Nicholl
@Bob Smith
Some of us are doing just that.








Shawn McShane  
Trevis L. Kingston
North America has no "old" buildings.
1492...was the starting date of 4 sided structures as we know them on this continent.
A 200 year old structure here is socially as valuable as a 2000 year old Italian Cathedral.
Canadians travel to the four corners of the world to see what?....old buildings !
But we will never have any for tourists to see if we tear them all down.
People pay good money to see Kings Landing and the Acadian Village. (1783 plus.)
Fredericton...the City of Stately...apartment buildings?


Harold Benson
Harold Benson
@Trevis L. Kingston I'll trade ya

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Harold Benson "Fredericton...the City of Stately...apartment buildings?"

Methinks Mayor Mikey and his cohorts no doubt like the sound of that Perhaps they will change Fat Fred City's slogan N'esy Pas?








Shawn McShane  
Shawn McShane
That building is a brick schitt house. Solid. So replace it with another particle board apartment? There was a developer in Moncton who did the opposite...Heritage Developments Ltd?.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Shawn McShane Methinks the latest Minister of Heritage Mr Gauvin is no doubt very proud of Moncton's efforts to preserve it history N'esy Pas?

David R. Amos
Content disabled.
David R. Amos
@Shawn McShane Methinks the folks should checkout the history swirling around the Lockwood House N'esy Pas?

http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/lockwood_anthony_8E.html








Harold Benson  
Harold Benson
Git them Gagetown boys up here with one of them newfangled tanks. Problem solved, training to boot.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Harold Benson Methinks Sam does not agree with such nonsense N'esy Pas?








David R. Amos  
David R. Amos
Carl Risteen told me to checkout the history swirling around Anthony Lockwood. Methinks because the Receiver General was such a comical scallywag the cornerstone of Queen Street should certainly be preserved and our history become better known N'esy Pas?





David R. Amos
Content disabled.
David R. Amos
The Fat Lady is about to sing Carl I trust that you cheered up and got a chuckle out of the comments




---------- Original message ----------
From: "Gallant, Brian (LEG)" <Brian.Gallant@gnb.ca>
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:29:24 +0000
Subject: RE: YO Marcus Kingston I just called but you were too busy having coffee 

to talk to me about your concerns about the Risteen building
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>

Thank you for writing to the Leader of the Official Opposition of New
Brunswick. Please be assured that your e-mail will be reviewed.

If this is a media request, please forward your e-mail to
ashley.beaudin@gnb.camedia-medias@gnb.ca

>. Thank you!

---

Nous vous remercions d’avoir communiqué avec le chef de l’opposition
officielle du Nouveau-Brunswick.  Soyez assuré(e) que votre courriel
sera examiné.

Si ceci est une demande médiatique, prière de la transmettre à
ashley.beaudin@gnb.cam
edia-medias@gnb.ca>.  Merci!





---------- Original message ----------
From: Newsroom <newsroom@globeandmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 16:29:26 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: YO Marcus Kingston I just called but you were too busy having coffee to talk to me about your concerns about the Risteen building
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>

Thank you for contacting The Globe and Mail.

If your matter pertains to newspaper delivery or you require technical
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---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 12:29:19 -0400
Subject: YO Marcus Kingston I just called but you were too busy having coffee 

to talk to me about your concerns about the Risteen building
To: marcus.kingston@gnb.ca, mike.obrien@fredericton.ca,
blaine.higgs@gnb.ca, oldmaison@yahoo.com, andre@jafaust.com,
jbosnitch@gmail.com, David.Coon@gnb.ca, kris.austin@gnb.ca,
brian.gallant@gnb.ca, robert.gauvin@gnb.ca, premier@gnb.ca,
Matt.DeCourcey.c1@parl.gc.ca, bruce@downtownfredericton.ca,
dfi@downtownfredericton.ca, markandcaroline@gmail.com,
martin.gaudet@fredericton.ca,
Larry.Tremblay@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, Gilles.Blinn@rcmp-grc.gc.ca,
Stephen.Chase@fredericton.ca, info@bellaproperties.ca
Cc: david.raymond.amos@gmail.com, Jacques.Poitras@cbc.ca,
steve.murphy@ctv.caNewsroom@globeandmail.com

However I did tell what I was up to Correct?

Perhaps Chucky Lebalnc and his cohorts will take up your battles with
Fat Fred City with his buddy Premier Blaine Higgs and Hon. Robert
Gauvin in particular N'esy Pas?

https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/thc/heritage/content/historic_places/designations.html


 Heritage Designations in New Brunswick
Through the Heritage Conservation Act, the province is involved in a
number of procedures that can result in different types of heritage
designations. Depending on the level and nature of significance,
places in New Brunswick may be eligible for recognition under the
following types of designations:

•Provincial Heritage Place Designation
•Municipal Heritage Conservation Area
•Local Historic Place Designation
Provincial Heritage Places and Local Historic Places are listed on the
New Brunswick Register of Historic Places and on the Canadian Register
of Historic Places. Information on the Canadian Register of Historic
Places is available at www.HistoricPlaces.ca. For National Historic
Sites and related information, contact Parks Canada Agency web site,
click here.





Hon. Robert Gauvin  
Robert GauvinDeputy Premier
Minister of Tourism, Heritage and Culture
Minister responsible for La Francophonie
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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