David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/05/province-attempts-to-put-finer-point-on.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-covid-19-strict-border-restrictions-1.5558770
Virus problems in Quebec, New England entrench strict border measures in N.B.
Province boasts one of lowest infection rates in North America, banned visitors to keep it that way
· CBC News · Posted: May 07, 2020 5:00 AM AT
New Brunswick has had border control officers in place since March 25 at seven locations where the province connects to Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and Quebec. They regularly turn back visitors who are believed to be making non-essential trips into the province. (Serge Bouchard/Radio-Canada)
Like a nervous household with its doors barred and windows locked in a tough neighbourhood, New Brunswick has been raising some eyebrows with its plan to stay closed to non-residents to combat the COVID-19 crisis, making few exceptions even for Canadians who own vacation properties in the province.
"The risk of travel-related cases is there when we have provinces and jurisdictions around us that have cases that are concerning," said Dr. Jennifer Russell, the province's chief medical officer of health, on Wednesday in defending the isolation policy.
Since the beginning of the pandemic, New Brunswick has recorded the lowest rate of COVID-19 infections among all 10 Canadian provinces and 50 U.S. states — just 15.4 cases per 100,000 residents — even with two new infections discovered in the province this week.
It's a fraction of the mayhem and heartache the virus has caused among the province's neighbours, especially in the New England states to the west and in Quebec to the north where efforts to suppress the spread of new cases has been having only mixed success.
Quebec Premier Francois Legault delayed a planned opening of retail businesses in Montreal until May 19 following a wave of new COVID-19 cases. Quebec reported more than 7,000 new cases in the last week, compared to two in New Brunswick. (Jacques Boissinot/The Canadian Press)
In Quebec, the epicentre of the outbreak in Canada, more than 7,000 new cases have turned up just in the last week, including 910 on Wednesday, frustrating health officials who had declared the virus to be in retreat nearly three weeks ago.
"We are very confident we have reached the peak of the curve," said Dr. Mylène Drouin, Montreal's director of public health, on April 16.
"We are not lowering the epidemic curve," said Drouin. "We can see a plateau and even an increase in cases."
Quebec has had 26 times the COVID-19 infections per capita New Brunswick has had and, earlier this week, concern over the virus' stubborn grip on Montreal caused Quebec Premier Francois Legault to delay the planned reopening of retail stores in the city until May 19, a week later than originally announced.
Quebec's struggles with the virus are also what is helping to convince officials in New Brunswick that isolating the province from a problem that large just next door is only sensible.
'Contain the spread'
"It's too early to open the borders up, especially in a situation what we see with what they're currently dealing with in Ontario or Quebec," said Premier Blaine Higgs."We need to take care to control the flow of people into New Brunswick if we are going to contain the spread of the virus."
There have been questions raised about whether New Brunswick risks violating the mobility rights of Canadians by continuing to block its provincial borders in that way, according to University of New Brunswick law professor Nicole O'Byrne.
Nicole O'Byrne is a law professor at the University of New Brunswick. She says although Canadians do have a constitutional right to move between provinces, a health emergency can take precedence. (CBC)
Section 6 of Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms grants all citizens and permanent residents the "right to move to and take up residence in any province and to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province."
But O'Byrne believes as long as New Brunswick is pursuing a legitimate public health objective, courts would be unlikely to find fault.
"There is no charter right that is absolute," said O'Byrne. "Individual rights are always weighed and balanced against the public good."
New cases continue
Daily new cases in Quebec in May have been almost triple what they were on March 25 when New Brunswick first began restricting entrance at all of its provincial borders and that has convinced Higgs controls should be tightened further — not loosened.And not just with entry points with Quebec.
New Brunswick's longest border is with the United States, and last summer 200,000 Americans travelled through a New Brunswick crossing at some point between mid-June and mid-September — with most of those travellers from New England.
More than 2,000 Americans per day enter New Brunswick at border crossings during the summer, but with growing numbers of cases of COVID-19 in states like Maine and New Hampshire and a raging outbreak in Massachusetts, the province wants no visitors. (Robert F. Bukaty/Associated Press)
But nearby states, including Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont, have all had problems stamping out the COVID-19 virus, with more than 800 new cases reported this week among the three of them, according to the Center for Systems Science and Engineering at Johns Hopkins University.
That is significant on its own but pales in comparison to Massachusetts, which has been suffering one of the most devastating outbreaks on the continent
More than 70,000 Massachusetts residents have tested positive for COVID-19 since the pandemic began, one per cent of its entire population, including 10,000 new cases just in the last week.
It's a per capita infection rate more than double Quebec's and 65 times greater than New Brunswick's.
When Higgs speaks of the threat posed to New Brunswick by outside jurisdictions, he almost always includes the threat from U.S. visitors as he worries the province's success combating COVID-19 will tempt many to visit.
On Monday, Premier Blaine Higgs said the risk is at our borders and the province would be looking at strengthening control as necessary to minimize the risks of COVID-19. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
"It is clear. Our risk is at our borders and we will be strengthening control around our borders as necessary to minimize the risks for citizens of this province," Higgs said Monday.
"If you look around us the bordering provinces or states and the levels of situation they are currently in with the COVID pandemic, that would give you a sense certainly where our biggest concerns might be.
"If we're moving ahead quicker than other provinces, more people will want to try and get in New Brunswick and we've just got to be diligent."
256 Comments
David Amos
Methinks this is old news N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Nicole O'Byrne no doubt read my comment on this topic yesterday EH?
David Amos
Deja Vu Anyone???
Methinks Higgy et al must have read the email I got for the Ontario Libertarian Party perhaps other folks should read it too N'esy Pas?
Hello David,
In response to the COVID emergency, provincial and municipal
governments have made several orders that violate the Canadian Charter
of Rights and Freedoms, and the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights. It is the Ontario Libertarian Parties position that
all Canadian citizens and permanent residents have the right to travel
and to work during the current COVID crisis and these rights are
guaranteed by existing law. These existing laws need to be enforced
and penalties for violations of the law by government needs to be
increased. As such, we are calling for:
1) the immediate repeal of all government orders that violate the
charter, the UN covenant, and the quarantine act, and
2) The introduction of administrative penalties against politicians
and government employees who enact or enforce any order that violates
the charter or the covenant.
Since 1988, the declaration of an emergency does not authorize any
government to override the charter or the covenant. From the pre-amble
to the Emergencies Act:
"AND WHEREAS the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary
measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and
Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly
with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or
abridged even in a national emergency;"
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
28(d)(i) of the Quarantine Act authorizes the federal government to
detain people travelling to Canada from other countries if they have
reasonable grounds to believe they are sick, or if they refuse to
cooperate. They can order you to get assessed by a medical
professional and place you in quarantine. But they do not have the
authority to quarantine healthy people as they have done by ordering a
14 day manditory quarantine for all people returning from other
countries.
28(1)(d) A quarantine officer may detain any traveller who the
quarantine officer has reasonable grounds to believe has or might have
a communicable disease or is infested with vectors, or has recently
been in close proximity to a person who has or might have a
communicable disease or is infested with vectors, and is capable of
infecting other people;
Section 6(2) of the charter guarantees your right to move and to work
in Canada. The current restrictions on travel to secondary residences,
travel within Canada are a violation of your charter rights as a
Canadian citizen. Ordering the closure of “non-essential businesses”
and the resultant laying off of “non-essential workers” are a
violation of your rights by the government:
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a
permanent resident of Canada has the right:
1.to move to and take up residence in any province; and
2.to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
Article 12(1) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political
Rights also guarantees our right to move within Canada and to choose
our own residence. The lockdown and stay at home orders violate your
civil rights and should be repealled immediately.
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within
that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to
choose his residence.
Some defenders of government COVID overreach claim that the
not-withstanding clause can be invoked and that the lockdown is
justified. Please refer to R v Oakes which sets out the conditions the
government must follow to invoke the not-withstanding clause.
1) the measures adopted must be carefully designed to achieve the
objective in question. They must not be arbitrary, unfair or based on
irrational considerations. In short, they must be rationally connected
to the objective;
2) the means, even if rationally connected to the objective in this
first sense, should impair "as little as possible" the right or
freedom in question;
3) Third, there must be a proportionality between the effects of the
measures which are responsible for limiting the Charter right or
freedom, and the objective which has been identified as of "sufficient
importance".
The quarantining of healthy uninfected people does not prevent the
spread of communicable diseases. It is only reasonable to quarantine
sick people.
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
The theory of “flattening the curve” is an unproven hypothesis based
on models rather than facts. There are many reasons to doubt the
validity of these models and emerging data is showing that districts
that remained economically open have similar death rates to regions
that banned work and travel. An unproven methodology should never have
been tried on such a large scale.
The government has assumed and is using models that assume that
individuals and companies will not privately and voluntarily choose to
take reasonable actions to prevent the spread of COVID, they went
straight to coercion without even considering voluntary action.
The government has made several irrational, unfair and arbitrary
orders. For example:
1.The closure of public spaces and parks but not Walmart or grocery stores
2.Walking is allowed in public parks but not standing, rollerblading
or bicycling
3.The banning of the use of motor boats as a means of transportation
but not kayaks or canoes
4.People can travel and go grocery shopping in other communities but
cannot access their secondary residences in those same communities
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: The government has not considered the increase in death rates from
heart disease, suicide, and other chronic health conditions caused by
the economic lockdown, which are substantial.
The government initially justified its lockdown by claiming that ICU
capacity would be overwhelmed, however this has not come to pass. Many
hospitals are operating at 50%-70% of capacity at the peak of this
epidemic. Despite this, the government refuses to loosen its
restrictions on our economic freedom.
The Ontario Libertarian Party remains the only political party that
supports your right to live and work while taking voluntary
precautions to protect yourself and others against viral infections.
Please support us so we can continue to grow.
How To Volunteer
If you have an interest to help support libertarianism in Ontario,
help behind the scenes within the party, or just volunteer in your
community, give us an email or call and we will gladly put you in
touch with a regional coordinator near you. Or if you want something
simple anyone can do to help, tell a friend!
Thanks for your continued support!
Click on this link >> Join / Renew: << to view your status and/or
renew your membership.
Ontario Libertarian Party
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: Why would this go "Poof"???
The government has not considered the increase in death rates from
heart disease, suicide, and other chronic health conditions caused by
the economic lockdown, which are substantial.
The government initially justified its lockdown by claiming that ICU
capacity would be overwhelmed, however this has not come to pass. Many
hospitals are operating at 50%-70% of capacity at the peak of this
epidemic. Despite this, the government refuses to loosen its
restrictions on our economic freedom.
The Ontario Libertarian Party remains the only political party that
supports your right to live and work while taking voluntary
precautions to protect yourself and others against viral infections.
Please support us so we can continue to grow.
How To Volunteer
If you have an interest to help support libertarianism in Ontario,
help behind the scenes within the party, or just volunteer in your
community, give us an email or call and we will gladly put you in
touch with a regional coordinator near you. Or if you want something
simple anyone can do to help, tell a friend!
Thanks for your continued support!
Click on this link >> Join / Renew: << to view your status and/or
renew your membership.
Ontario Libertarian Party
Sassan Sanei
Reply to @David Amos: The notwithstanding clause is a moot point. It can only be invoked against section 2 or sections 7 to 15 of the Charter. The freedom of mobility between provinces is section 6, which means the notwithstanding clause can't be used to bypass it.
David Amos
Reply to @Sassan Sanei: Methinks the Charter is a moot point in light of the fact that Rule 55 exists in Federal Court N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Sassan Sanei: Why would this go "Poof"???
The government has not considered the increase in death rates from
heart disease, suicide, and other chronic health conditions caused by
the economic lockdown, which are substantial.
The government initially justified its lockdown by claiming that ICU
capacity would be overwhelmed, however this has not come to pass. Many
hospitals are operating at 50%-70% of capacity at the peak of this
epidemic. Despite this, the government refuses to loosen its
restrictions on our economic freedom.
The Ontario Libertarian Party remains the only political party that
supports your right to live and work while taking voluntary
precautions to protect yourself and others against viral infections.
Please support us so we can continue to grow.
How To Volunteer
If you have an interest to help support libertarianism in Ontario,
help behind the scenes within the party, or just volunteer in your
community, give us an email or call and we will gladly put you in
touch with a regional coordinator near you. Or if you want something
simple anyone can do to help, tell a friend!
Thanks for your continued support!
Click on this link >> Join / Renew: << to view your status and/or
renew your membership.
Ontario Libertarian Party
Chris Everitt
What no one seems to be talking about is that by locking down, New Brunswick has possibly guaranteed a second wave. They have forced their population to rely on a vaccine which could take months and months to develop. Where many people show mild to no symptoms at all, having a certain segment of the population getting and recovering from Covid-19 is not necessarily a bad thing. Not to mention the effect of sheltering in place for months is having on our immune systems. People have to start investigating and looking into things on their own instead of simply accepting what the media throws at them. Videos: www.youtube.com/watchv=bkPoFKn0u_g&t=1225s ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpfxvXjAnvk&t=319s ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASyKpxpHrA0 ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFNvcw12d08&t=274s (Trudeau part starting at 4:30) ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eke456lEM-4
Lou Bell
Reply to @Chris Everitt: Ah the Social Media Fake news !
Fred
Brewer
Reply to @Chris
Everitt: Yes of course. Youtube, the channel of abundant misinformation
and fake news. Why would I even bother watching? After all, youtube
claims 9-11 was an inside job and planes never struck the buildings.
Sheesh. Must have been a sale on tin hats.
Lou Bell
Reply to @Chris
Everitt: Oh I see ! If 20 % of the people were to die off in the 1st
wave , there would be less people to go in the 2nd wave ! And don't
believe for a 2nd there will not be a 2nd wave for anyone ! The size
will be the determining factor and how the 1st wave is controlled ! Try
harder !
Michael Milne
Reply to @Fred
Brewer: Seriously, what Youtube does is give bias conformation to sell
you advertising. CBC is total bunk, start surfing to find the original
sources which social media allows you to do if you are smart enough to
tell the real from the fake. CBC does not give you a choice, they simply
spoon feed you what they want.
Michael Milne
Reply to @Lou Bell:
20% will NOT die off. The percentage is like 1 tenth of a percent,
mainly old people who have other health problems. The numbers who cite
are from the same people who predicted in 2000 we would alll be under
water now.
David Amos
Reply to @Michael Milne: True but good luck with Lou
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Michael Milne: Ok I will bite. What reason does CBC have to intentionally provide false information about Covid?
David Amos
Reply to @Michael Milne: Same holds true for Freddy Baby too
Fred
Brewer
Reply to @Michael Milne: The low percentage of deaths is precisely due to the measures that you want to get rid of.
DON MOFFATT
I would like to see a special interest group challenge the Government on the violation of Charter Rights. Who knows what rights we will lose in the next crisis?
Tim Biddiscombe
Reply to @DON MOFFATT: Public health not important to you?
DON MOFFATT
Reply to @Tim Biddiscombe: That is not the point.
Tim Biddiscombe
Reply to @DON MOFFATT: Yes it is in this case. Its by far the most important part actually.
Tim Biddiscombe
Reply to @DON
MOFFATT: You'd have to challenge almost all municipalities, provinces
and the federal govt because they all put in restrictions.
June Arnott
Reply to @DON MOFFATT: if it keeps us alive do as you are told
DON MOFFATT
Reply to @Tim
Biddiscombe: The FEDS may have that right as the Charted i a Federal
Doc. I do not believe the province can ignore the Charter. As far as
your comment about health not important to me, it is, but we live in a
province where 50,000 residents do not have a family doctor. Is that
good health practice?
DON MOFFATT
Reply to @June Arnott: That sounds like something Maduro would say.
Tim Biddiscombe
Reply to @DON MOFFATT: Its what almost all leaders in North America say actually..
Tim Biddiscombe
Reply to @DON MOFFATT: Exception: Donald Trump
SarahRose Werner
Reply to @DON
MOFFATT: Would have to be a special interest group with deep enough
pockets to pay their own legal fees and court costs, because they would
almost certainly lose the challenge.
Troy Murray
Reply to @DON MOFFATT: if you don’t follow the rules, you might not see the next crisis
David Amos
Reply to @DON MOFFATT: Just one person can sue It would have the same effect you desire
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Go Figure
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.
Fred Brewer
Reply to @DON MOFFATT: Actually you are wrong. The UNB law professor said that the charter rights of an individual are not absolute, and any court would weigh and balance the rights of the individual against the common good. It was her opinion that the government has not stepped outside the bounds of the charter and any challenge would lose.
Lou Bell
Does Quebec not have an ethical , sensible politician in the province ? Appears not .
Lou Bell
Reply to @Lou Bell:
And Mme. Drouin appears to be no more than a political appointee at best
. While MOST other Medical Officers are citing caution , she appears to
be promoting the complete opposite ! This looks like nothing more than a
clone of the Trump administration ,although at least they have Dr.'s
Birk and Fauci to negate everything Trump says !! Quebec? Not so much !
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell:
ethical , sensible politician??? Methinks your hero Higgy must have
enlightened you about such myths by now N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell
Unfortunately Quebec has gone rogue ! No leadership , poor Health Authority , They have it all ! COVID running rampant through the province reminds me of the smoking phase they had for decades . They went through cigarettes faster than those panicking went through toilet paper a month ago !
Dan Lee
Reply to @Lou Bell:
yup....Higgs canary
yup....Higgs canary
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Lee: Methinks that is why her nickname is "Buggie" N'esy Pas?
https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
Methinks Higgy et al must have read the email I got from the Ontario Libertarian Party perhaps other folks should read it too N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/05/province-attempts-to-put-finer-point-on.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-border-restrictions-covid-19-1.5556764
Province attempts to put a finer point on rules, 'strengthen' border restrictions
Provincial officials are meeting to clarify rules around interprovincial travel, Dr. Jennifer Russell says
· CBC News · Posted: May 06, 2020 7:00 AM AT
Vehicles entering New Brunswick at the Quebec border in Campbellton lined up earlier this year as an officer asked all motorists a series of questions to screen for COVID-19. (Serge Bouchard/Radio-Canada)
With only one new case in the last 17 days, the real danger of a second wave of COVID-19 lies beyond the province's borders.
Nova Scotia has around 330 active cases, Maine around 480 and Quebec more than 25,000. New Brunswick is also still receiving flights from Montreal and Toronto.
The state of emergency declaration bans all "non-essential" travel such as tourism and social visits.
But beyond the emergency declaration's broad strokes, the province still hasn't clarified exactly who's allowed in, who will be turned away and how it intends to make sure people aren't skirting the rules.
"We've had several meetings in the last week about how we can tighten things up, how we can make things very clear and definitive to make sure that our borders are not as porous as they are right now," Jennifer Russell, the chief medical officer of health, said at a news conference Tuesday.
Dr. Jennifer Russell, chief medical officer of health, says the province is considering ways to clarify and entrench the rules about border travel. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
She said whether it's air or land travel, "we're having discussions this week on how to tighten things up even more."
Russell said the Department of Public Safety has collected data on what kind of travel has been accepted and what hasn't, but that data was not available to media Tuesday.
Russell said there has been "very little" travel allowed into the province.
The state of emergency says essential travel includes:
- People who work or need medical treatment in New Brunswick.
- Commercial vehicle drivers.
- Residents of Campobello Island entering to access essential goods or services.
- Travel to allow children to share their time between parents.New Brunswick residents who have been out of province temporarily.
- Quebec residents who need essential services like prescription medication or groceries that are not available in Quebec, or in Listuguj or Pointe-à-la-Croix.
Premier Blaine Higgs said Monday COVID-19 spread by travel is where "our biggest concerns might be."
Premier Blaine Higgs said New Brunswick will focus on patrolling its borders because that is where the COVID-19 risk is most likely to be found. 1:04
He said he asked for a detailed breakdown of the reasons travellers are giving for coming across the borders.
"That information is being prepared so we'll be able to make the right judgments on who needs to come in or through New Brunswick and who doesn't," he said.
"We will be strengthening control around our borders as necessary to minimize the risk for citizens of this province."
Spokesperson Geoffrey Downey said peace officers are taking information from everyone entering the province and following up with those told to self-isolate for 14 days.
Officers at checkpoints
Provincial peace officers are stationed at each of the seven interprovincial land entry points in the province, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, said provincial spokesperson Coreen Enos.Entry points to Quebec are in Lac Baker, Edmundston, Restigouche River crossing near Matapedia, Que., and by the J.C. Van Horne Bridge at Campbellton. Entry points to Nova Scotia are in Aulac-Tantramar and Tidnish Bridge. Prince Edward Island entry point is through Confederation Bridge
The province also began stationing officers at the Moncton and Fredericton airports on April 25 when there's an incoming flight.
Russell said these officers will ask people questions about the purpose of their travel and whether they have any COVID-19 symptoms. She said the officers have the power to turn people away if they deem their travel non–essential.
It's not clear if they measure travellers' temperatures.
On Monday, Premier Blaine Higgs said the province is looking at ways to strengthen the provincial borders. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
The emergency declaration doesn't specifically address people who might have a family emergency, people who are driving through the province, or people who have property in New Brunswick.
The declaration also doesn't outline how the province will keep track of people, if at all, to make sure their travel really is essential.
In an email, provincial spokesperson Geoffrey Downey said people driving through the province will be allowed through.
What people are expected to do once they've arrived
A memo posted on the province's website says people coming from other provinces and internationally must self-isolate for 14 days. This means they can't go grocery shopping or even interact with members of the same household.Russell said if the traveller is sharing a house with other people, they must stay in a separate room, and use a separate bathroom if possible, and avoid any contact for that duration.
"It's really better if they don't share or they don't stay in the same room with you. It's better if they have their own bathroom. It's better if you make sure that everything is disinfected," she said.
Some people are exempted from self-isolating. Those workers include:
- Healthy workers in the trade and transportation sector, such as truck drivers and crew on any plane, train or marine vessel crossing the border.
- Healthy Canadian Coast Guard employees returning to New Brunswick from another province.
- Healthy people who must cross the border to go to work, including health care providers and critical infrastructure workers.
- New Brunswick residents who cross the provincial border daily to attend work.
- Workers who need to travel to work in a neighbouring province, who should travel directly to their place of employment and then back to their home in New Brunswick.
That will include consistently testing people with mild symptoms and controlling the flow of travellers to avoid a resurgence of cases.
"You need to continue with the hand hygiene, you need to continue with wearing community facial masks, you need to continue the physical distancing," she said.
About the Author
With files from Jacques Poitras
65 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Louise Landry
They plan to keep the border closed until there is a vaccine? Best case scenario is 2 years, but in reality it may take 10 years for a vaccine or they may never find one. Are we expected to be locked up in NB until we die? You can freely travel trough Italy, but not through Canada? This isn't making sense to me...
Lou Bell
Reply to @Louise Landry: Ah the reflections of the conspiracy theorists ! Maybe Quebec is a better option for them
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Methinks many who do not respect Higgy's Police State or his mindless
spindoctors would agree that perhaps you should take your own advice and
head north the sooner the better for all who were born and raised here
N'esy Pas?
Terry Tibbs
And so it goes, as many of us suspected, that Mr Higgs' "closed borders" were just a fairy tale told to children before bed.
Lou Bell
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Sadly it is you who hasn't a clue.
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Please enlighten us . Love to hear how it has really failed us !
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Lou Bell:
I don't have to. If you are capable of reading and understanding what you read, it was just admitted there are no formal guidelines for folks wishing to wander through our province.
I don't have to. If you are capable of reading and understanding what you read, it was just admitted there are no formal guidelines for folks wishing to wander through our province.
Lou Bell
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Actually there are , you just have no clue what they are .
David Amos
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: Methinks you should scroll down to review Higgy's spindoctor
proving that she is not capable of reading and understanding things that
goes against her hero's agenda for the Police State she adores N'esy
Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: Methinks Higgy painted himself into a corner with this issue but
he doesn't care. He is just waffling to appear reasonable yet he will
never flip flop like he did with the emergency room fiasco because he
wants the opposition to cause an election ASAP while folks think he is
doing a great job with his Police State N'esy Pas?
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Sadly it is you who hasn't a clue.
Terry
Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos:
Sadly Mr Higgs and his spin doctor can't fix slimy. NEVER in my life have I ever felt a need to wash more than after meeting Mr Higgs. And yes, I verified it by meeting with Mr Higgs twice.
Sadly Mr Higgs and his spin doctor can't fix slimy. NEVER in my life have I ever felt a need to wash more than after meeting Mr Higgs. And yes, I verified it by meeting with Mr Higgs twice.
David Amos
Methinks Higgy et al must have read the email I got for the Ontario Libertarian Party perhaps other folks should read it too N'esy Pas?
Hello David,
In response to the COVID emergency, provincial and municipal
governments have made several orders that violate the Canadian Charter
of Rights and Freedoms, and the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights. It is the Ontario Libertarian Parties position that
all Canadian citizens and permanent residents have the right to travel
and to work during the current COVID crisis and these rights are
guaranteed by existing law. These existing laws need to be enforced
and penalties for violations of the law by government needs to be
increased. As such, we are calling for:
1) the immediate repeal of all government orders that violate the
charter, the UN covenant, and the quarantine act, and
2) The introduction of administrative penalties against politicians
and government employees who enact or enforce any order that violates
the charter or the covenant.
Since 1988, the declaration of an emergency does not authorize any
government to override the charter or the covenant. From the pre-amble
to the Emergencies Act:
"AND WHEREAS the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary
measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and
Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly
with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or
abridged even in a national emergency;"
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
28(d)(i) of the Quarantine Act authorizes the federal government to
detain people travelling to Canada from other countries if they have
reasonable grounds to believe they are sick, or if they refuse to
cooperate. They can order you to get assessed by a medical
professional and place you in quarantine. But they do not have the
authority to quarantine healthy people as they have done by ordering a
14 day manditory quarantine for all people returning from other
countries.
28(1)(d) A quarantine officer may detain any traveller who the
quarantine officer has reasonable grounds to believe has or might have
a communicable disease or is infested with vectors, or has recently
been in close proximity to a person who has or might have a
communicable disease or is infested with vectors, and is capable of
infecting other people;
Section 6(2) of the charter guarantees your right to move and to work
in Canada. The current restrictions on travel to secondary residences,
travel within Canada are a violation of your charter rights as a
Canadian citizen. Ordering the closure of “non-essential businesses”
and the resultant laying off of “non-essential workers” are a
violation of your rights by the government:
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a
permanent resident of Canada has the right:
1.to move to and take up residence in any province; and
2.to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
Article 12(1) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political
Rights also guarantees our right to move within Canada and to choose
our own residence. The lockdown and stay at home orders violate your
civil rights and should be repealled immediately.
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within
that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to
choose his residence.
Some defenders of government COVID overreach claim that the
not-withstanding clause can be invoked and that the lockdown is
justified. Please refer to R v Oakes which sets out the conditions the
government must follow to invoke the not-withstanding clause.
1) the measures adopted must be carefully designed to achieve the
objective in question. They must not be arbitrary, unfair or based on
irrational considerations. In short, they must be rationally connected
to the objective;
2) the means, even if rationally connected to the objective in this
first sense, should impair "as little as possible" the right or
freedom in question;
3) Third, there must be a proportionality between the effects of the
measures which are responsible for limiting the Charter right or
freedom, and the objective which has been identified as of "sufficient
importance".
The quarantining of healthy uninfected people does not prevent the
spread of communicable diseases. It is only reasonable to quarantine
sick people.
1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within
that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to
choose his residence.
Some defenders of government COVID overreach claim that the
not-withstanding clause can be invoked and that the lockdown is
justified. Please refer to R v Oakes which sets out the conditions the
government must follow to invoke the not-withstanding clause.
1) the measures adopted must be carefully designed to achieve the
objective in question. They must not be arbitrary, unfair or based on
irrational considerations. In short, they must be rationally connected
to the objective;
2) the means, even if rationally connected to the objective in this
first sense, should impair "as little as possible" the right or
freedom in question;
3) Third, there must be a proportionality between the effects of the
measures which are responsible for limiting the Charter right or
freedom, and the objective which has been identified as of "sufficient
importance".
The quarantining of healthy uninfected people does not prevent the
spread of communicable diseases. It is only reasonable to quarantine
sick people.
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
The theory of “flattening the curve” is an unproven hypothesis based
on models rather than facts. There are many reasons to doubt the
validity of these models and emerging data is showing that districts
that remained economically open have similar death rates to regions
that banned work and travel. An unproven methodology should never have
been tried on such a large scale.
The government has assumed and is using models that assume that
individuals and companies will not privately and voluntarily choose to
take reasonable actions to prevent the spread of COVID, they went
straight to coercion without even considering voluntary action.
The government has made several irrational, unfair and arbitrary
orders. For example:
1.The closure of public spaces and parks but not Walmart or grocery stores
2.Walking is allowed in public parks but not standing, rollerblading
or bicycling
3.The banning of the use of motor boats as a means of transportation
but not kayaks or canoes
4.People can travel and go grocery shopping in other communities but
cannot access their secondary residences in those same communities
The theory of “flattening the curve” is an unproven hypothesis based
on models rather than facts. There are many reasons to doubt the
validity of these models and emerging data is showing that districts
that remained economically open have similar death rates to regions
that banned work and travel. An unproven methodology should never have
been tried on such a large scale.
The government has assumed and is using models that assume that
individuals and companies will not privately and voluntarily choose to
take reasonable actions to prevent the spread of COVID, they went
straight to coercion without even considering voluntary action.
The government has made several irrational, unfair and arbitrary
orders. For example:
1.The closure of public spaces and parks but not Walmart or grocery stores
2.Walking is allowed in public parks but not standing, rollerblading
or bicycling
3.The banning of the use of motor boats as a means of transportation
but not kayaks or canoes
4.People can travel and go grocery shopping in other communities but
cannot access their secondary residences in those same communities
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
The government has not considered the increase in death rates from
heart disease, suicide, and other chronic health conditions caused by
the economic lockdown, which are substantial.
The government initially justified its lockdown by claiming that ICU
capacity would be overwhelmed, however this has not come to pass. Many
hospitals are operating at 50%-70% of capacity at the peak of this
epidemic. Despite this, the government refuses to loosen its
restrictions on our economic freedom.
The Ontario Libertarian Party remains the only political party that
supports your right to live and work while taking voluntary
precautions to protect yourself and others against viral infections.
Please support us so we can continue to grow.
How To Volunteer
If you have an interest to help support libertarianism in Ontario,
help behind the scenes within the party, or just volunteer in your
community, give us an email or call and we will gladly put you in
touch with a regional coordinator near you. Or if you want something
simple anyone can do to help, tell a friend!
Thanks for your continued support!
Click on this link >> Join / Renew: << to view your status and/or
renew your membership.
Ontario Libertarian Party
The government has not considered the increase in death rates from
heart disease, suicide, and other chronic health conditions caused by
the economic lockdown, which are substantial.
The government initially justified its lockdown by claiming that ICU
capacity would be overwhelmed, however this has not come to pass. Many
hospitals are operating at 50%-70% of capacity at the peak of this
epidemic. Despite this, the government refuses to loosen its
restrictions on our economic freedom.
The Ontario Libertarian Party remains the only political party that
supports your right to live and work while taking voluntary
precautions to protect yourself and others against viral infections.
Please support us so we can continue to grow.
How To Volunteer
If you have an interest to help support libertarianism in Ontario,
help behind the scenes within the party, or just volunteer in your
community, give us an email or call and we will gladly put you in
touch with a regional coordinator near you. Or if you want something
simple anyone can do to help, tell a friend!
Thanks for your continued support!
Click on this link >> Join / Renew: << to view your status and/or
renew your membership.
Ontario Libertarian Party
Bo Zam
Reply to @David Amos: David.. no one is listening.
Lou Bell
Reply to @David Amos:
Ah the " Wingnut Party " . Perhaps they should sue . Let's see how
that works out . I get calls like this all the time . Usually offshore
call centers wanting personal info.
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Methinks Higg's spindoctors make it your business to try to prove on a
daily basis every day all day long that folks got the Police State they
deserve N'esy Pas?
Billy Joe Mcallister
Isn't it a double standard if some people can travel back and forth to through borders to work but Americans living in Canada cannot make a quick trip to do things such as banking or pick up their mail? Isn't it also a double standard when people can go back and forth across provincial borders to work while others have had to go on employment insurance or the CERB program? But then again this the "new norm" and most things don't make sense anyway.
Billy Joe Mcallister
Reply to @Billy Joe
Mcallister: I'm not saying the borders should be opened up at this time,
I actually believe should be tightened up as much as possible without
interrupting the flow of goods. And couldn't there be "other
arrangements" made for those on the Quebec side of the border to come
and get their prescriptions refilled in Campbelton ? Say one tested
person designated to go back and forth?
Layton
Bennett
Reply to @Billy Joe
Mcallister: You cannot compare Inter provincial travel with
International travel, travel to and from the US to Canada is governed by
an agreement with the US.
Billy Joe Mcallister
Reply to @Layton
Bennett: Yes, that is correct and I am glad I prompted the response
because the provincial government has little to say about the border
with the US. If Donald Trump says he wants the border open ...it will
be open. All he has to say is okay then, nothing comes in and nothing
goes out. Then what happens?
Layton
Bennett
Reply to @Billy Joe Mcallister: He already said he wanted open for Easter, Trudeau said no, the border is still closed
Bruce
Sanders
Reply to @Billy Joe Mcallister: Then we take a trip down south where at least I can get a haircut.
David Amos
Reply to @Billy Joe
Mcallister: Methinks things don't have to make sense in a Police State.
Furthermore you will never be permitted to question Higgy's authority
particularly in light of the fact that all the political parties are
playing along while the economy takes a huge nosedive again N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Bruce
Sanders: Methinks lots of folks such as I could care less about a
haircut but would dearly love to see our kin who are living south of
the 49th and elsewhere in Canada N'esy Pas?
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