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David Raymond Amos‏ @DavidRayAmos
Methinks the RCMP should have informed the Saint John politicians and their cops about I handle my concerns about their lack of Integrity within Twitter etc a long time ago N'esy Pas?



https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/07/online-activist-seizes-spotlight-with.html




 #nbpoli #cdnpoli




https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-caitlin-grogan-online-activist-spotlight-1.5669341

Online activist seizes the spotlight with police critique

'It's made a change and I'm not going to apologize for that part'

Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Jul 31, 2020 6:00 AM AT



Caitlin Grogan said she wasn't looking for attention when she criticized the Saint John Police in a tweet in June. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)

Caitlin Grogan says she wasn't looking for attention in early June when she dropped an f-bomb on the Saint John Police force.

But that's what she got: attention for her, and for her cause.

That single phrase in a single tweet, "f--- the @saintjohnpolice," made her the most prominent of several new voices forcing themselves into political debates in the city around policing, transit and other issues.

"I don't necessarily feel like I belong in the spotlight," she says. "I haven't done anything of incredible importance. I'm just a person in the community."

On the other hand, in the last eight weeks, "I've had more contact with politicians than I have had in my entire life."

cait

@thecaitdiaries

so, the saint john police doesn’t recommend charges for 80% of sexual assault reports? and that’s like... acceptable?

7:18 PM · Jun 18, 2020

The Saint John police reacted to her tweet by blocking her, but quickly unblocked her.

Since then Grogan has deployed the f-word at least one other time and has told people to "shut up," though she says that was registering disapproval, not trying to silence them.

MP deletes Twitter after debate

She has also got under the skin of some politicians, most notably Saint John-Rothesay Liberal MP Wayne Long.

After a heated online discussion about a photo showing Long on a boat with some friends, one of them holding a beer, the second-term MP deleted his Twitter account.

"Advocacy is important. Waking people up to listen to your message is important," says Long, a prolific social-media user himself.


With a single tweet, Caitlin Grogan put herself at the centre of a political moment in Saint John. She's part of a burst of online activism that politicians have been unable to ignore. 4:53

"But when it leaves issues-based discussion, and turns to personal attacks that's when I think it's counterproductive. And to be perfectly frank, it's destructive."

After Long made similar comments on CBC's Information Morning Saint John last week, Grogan tweeted, "Imagine being the most ineffective MP in history and trying to pick a fight with your most annoying constituent."

Other Saint John politicians haven't pushed back. Coun. David Hickey says social media is "not necessarily the most productive place" to take on politicians, but he says the swirl of debate has been healthy.
 

Saint John MP Wayne Long deleted his Twitter account after a heated debate with Caitin Grogan over a photo. (CBC)

"It's also creating a bigger conversation around what insightful and meaningful engagement means with the community and with community partners."

In a way, it's a story as old as politics, now being told in 140-character bursts on smart phones.

Young activists push for change. Establishment figures get uncomfortable.

Approach criticized

It raises age-old questions: is it better to criticize from the outside or try to work from inside the system? When is it time to stop asking nicely?

"The only reason anyone is paying attention to this right now is because I swore one time at the police," Grogan says. "It's made a change and I'm not going to apologize for that part."

Grogan says the criticism of her approach, that she's too "angry" and needs to smile more, is rarely levelled at male activists, and besides, it's just the "persona" people see online.

"I get [called] angry a lot, which is really surprising, because people who know me personally [know] that is so not me."

Except she is angry, she says in the next breath, about the number of sexual assault cases labelled "unfounded," for example.

"I think you have to be angry," she says. "I think if you're not angry you're not paying enough attention to what's happening."

Grogan has a lighter side. She tweeted at Mayor Don Darling that the city should buy Theodore the Tugboat, which Halifax officials put up for sale this summer.

Changes needed

But it's making change that drives her, and that's where it's harder to measure her impact.

She mentions that the email addresses for members of the Saint John Board of Police Commissioners are now listed online, and that the Kennebecasis Regional Police Force plans to pilot a civilian sexual assault review process.

Grogan used the provincial right-to-information law to get a breakdown of the different reasons the city police cited for not laying charges after sexual assault complaints.

Those are tiny steps that raise other eternal political questions: how fast is fast enough when it comes to change? How rapidly can it happen without triggering a backlash and endangering progress?

"I'm like the instant gratification generation," Grogan says. "'We want change and we want it now.'"
 

Saint John city Coun. David Hickey said the debate has been healthy and is creating a bigger conversation around what insightful and meaningful engagement means. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)

She recognizes that's not always realistic. She says it was unfair for another Twitter user to slam Saint John Mayor Don Darling for not defunding the police immediately.

"But at the same time …  while it may take years for the Saint John city council to substantially cut the police force budget, it would not take them years to at least acknowledge that that's something they want to look at or will look at."

Not interested in politics

Of course, Twitter isn't real life. It's not as widely used as other social media platforms, and it can be an echo chamber for politicians, activists and journalists.

Real decisions happen in real life.

"I had a lot of people reach out to me and ask if I was going to put my name forward to the police board or if I was going to run in the next municipal election," Grogan says.

"Both of those are resounding no's. That's not the way I want to make a difference right now. When you're working from the inside you have a lot more power but you also have a lot more rules that are put upon you."

Other like-minded activists are taking the plunge, though.

Courtney Pyrke, a board member of the new activist group Flip Saint John, recently applied for a vacant spot on the police board and several other municipal bodies.

"When Don Darling and Wayne Long and those politicians said, 'Why don't you do something?' I looked up what positions were open and I put my name forward because I think they have a point," Pyrke said.

Progressive activism

Flip Saint John was formed by a group of progressive activists who found each other online and decided to work together.

The group recently tweeted that it wants to avoid online bullying and was working on a code of conduct for its board members.

"We want to take these, as people would describe it, 'angry voices' or 'angry people online,' and turn that into something more productive," Pyrke said, adding, "I didn't see an issue with how Cait expressed her concerns or the things that she was recognizing."
 

While she's not interested in being on the police commission board or running for municipal politics, Grogan is learning more about how government works. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)

Darling says the debate sparked by Grogan, Flip Saint John and Black Lives Matter has prompted an "uptick" in the applications for vacant spots on the police board.

"So I am confident at the end of this we'll have a stronger police commission when we're done," he says.

Grogan, meanwhile, says she has gained a more detailed understanding of how government institutions work.

"Today I'm going to sit through a growth committee meeting and learn about an affordable housing strategy for the city," she says. "Prior to all of this I wouldn't have known that the city was even looking to create an affordable housing strategy."

Despite Grogan's better appreciation of how slow-moving governments can be, and despite the blowback, "I would say things seem more possible" than they were before that first tweet, she says.

"It's shown that there is sort of a new type of politics coming, some new engagement. Young people are 'aging up' to the age now that they're able to vote and get involved, and there is that generational change."

About the Author

Jacques Poitras

Provincial Affairs reporter

Jacques Poitras has been CBC's provincial affairs reporter in New Brunswick since 2000. Raised in Moncton, he also produces the CBC political podcast Spin Reduxit. 

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices

 


55  Comments 
Commenting is now closed for this story.




David Amos
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Methinks the RCMP should have informed the Saint John politicians and their cops about I handle my concerns about their lack of Integrity within Twitter etc a long time ago N'esy Pas? 


Ray Oliver
Call me Darlin we will blow the whistle together.. LOL. Yeah. I'm a bad person

David Amos   

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Methinks CBC, Wayne Long, the Saint John Cops and the RCMP should admit that when it comes politicking withinTwitter the little lady does not hold a candle to mean old me N'esy Pas?

 

 

Dan Stewart 

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Reply to @David Amos: Any CBC articles about you lately Dave?

David Peters

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Reply to @Dan Stewart:
All this article is about is an f bomb dropping...in the meantime, our regions small and medium-sized businesses are reporting that their businesses are quickly becoming unsustainable.

David Amos

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Reply to @Dan Stewart: Methinks you should ask yourself why there NEVER has been N'esy Pas?

Dan Stewart

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Reply to @David Amos: I am pretty sure I know why
Dave... You, maybe not so much.....

Harvey York

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Reply to @Dan Stewart: we all know why

David Amos 

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Reply to @Harvey York: Methinks it follows that you dudes also know why it is illegal that they didn't N'esy Pas?

Dan Stewart 

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Reply to @David Peters: I agree that it is in fact more about the expletive used than anything else and that's actually a sad commentary on much social media these days.
Our economic woes while always a struggle here have most certainly suffered because of the world wide pandemic.. But that's not what this article is about.

SarahRose Werner
A tweet that does nothing but drop the F-bomb on a group or individual is not activism. It's just complaining. By reacting so strongly to this particular complaint, politicians have encouraged more of the same. If you want to make change, first learn how things work.


David Amos 

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Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Methinks you think the young lady doth protest too much N'esy Pas?

Matt Steele
Yep , certainly sounds like a product of the N.B. School System . Sounds like someone who would throw a hissy fit by cursing and swearing at a teacher , then threaten the teacher with a false allegation if they can't get their way . Society teaches them well .


David Amos 

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Reply to @Matt Steele: Methinks you and I were schooled by the same system So who are you to judge the young lady's actions merely because the corporate media and the politicians noticed her words and not yours N'esy Pas?

Aloysius McGillicuddy
Calling someone the "most ineffective MP in history" is not activism. It is Trumpism. Back in the day, people used to write "letters to the editor". The editor would decide what was reasonable enough to print. Now anyone with a smart phone gets the mic. And they often have no expertise. So if 80% is not acceptable, what is? 81%? 85%? There was no discussion of the results of the access to information and why there were not charges. Should people be tried without evidence? Should we spend time on trials where there is zero chance of conviction and clog up our legal system even more? This kind of twitter "activism" is just not constructive, its just yet another loudmouth getting attention.


David Amos 

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Reply to @Aloysius McGillicuddy: Methinks you should know that much to the chagrin of many a cop I used to consume your Menthol Mint concoction by the gallon N'esy Pas?

James Risdon
Ever think that maybe a lot of cases actually are unfounded or do not have sufficient evidence to move forward? Ever think that maybe the police are actually doing their jobs?


David Amos 

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Reply to @James Risdon: Methinks its time for your nap and have sweet dreams about KISS Party days N'esy Pas?

Steve Ryan 

Reply to @James Risdon:
You want her to think? No, people like her don't think, they just tweet.

James Risdon 

Reply to @Steve Ryan: Well, maybe she's capable of deep thought but was simply expressing a quick reaction at the time. I don't know her so I can't say.

Mac Isaac
In previous generations the norm for entry into politics was to become involved in some sort of community organization; then that involvement matured to that of community leadership and then on to elected office. Like most people my age, we WANT younger people to be engaged in their communities. Maybe this method of engaging through social media is as good a method as how it was formerly done but one thing I do know is either way requires a good foundation and education on the issues and the practicalities of your methodologies. Such blanket statements as "f--- @saintjohn police" needs some reflection on how effective such antagonism can be to the goal of improving/changing those things you want improved/changed. Such statements will most certainly make you visible but, at some point, you will need cooperation from some of the very people you've alienated.


David Amos 

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Reply to @Mac Isaac: Methinks Trudeau the Younger broke that mold N'esy Pas?

Justin Gunther   

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Why would you give the CBC access to frame your story? You don't have to want to run for office to point out the obvious, or serve as a necessary vehicle of catharsis when police get out of hand, or criticize what is manifestly stupid about politics, government and its different departments.

You don't need to do those things because nobody put guns to the heads of the people currently working these jobs. They took high profile jobs that attract criticism. That's on them.

Cute though. The tactic, I mean. Oh dear what have I done..

David Amos

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Reply to @Justin Gunther: What have you done?

Jake Newman
why doesn't she put her name forth for the police commission, why doesn't she become a police officer---oh wait easier to criticize


Winston Gray

Reply to @Jake Newman: says the guy commenting on a CBC article about how easy it is to “do something”

Ronald Parker

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Reply to @Jake Newman: As you just proved, it is easy to criticize.

Justin Gunther 

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Reply to @Ronald Parker: Much easier to have blue wall task forces than public inquiries as well.

Terry Saxton 

Reply to @Jake Newman: so to criticize you have to be a policeman, commissioner ,can’t do it as an ordinary citizen, what country are you from?

David Amos 

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Reply to @Jake Newman: What is it you do that is so special?

SarahRose Werner 

Reply to @Jake Newman: Given that Grogan is only now gaining "a more detailed understanding of how government institutions work," I'm glad to hear that she doesn't plan to join the police commission at this time. She's not ready.

Larry Larson
Time to replace the Saint John force with cops who want to do the work!

David Amos

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Reply to @Larry Larson: Dream On

Larry Larson

Reply to @David Amos: Hey! Les rêves sont bons!

Douglas James
Long is quoted as saying: "But when (social media) leaves issues-based discussion, and turns to personal attacks that's when I think it's counterproductive. And to be perfectly frank, it's destructive."

When I raised an issue about the census snooping into private lives, this MP sat on the sidelines and gleefully watched live as his principal assistant tried to publicly humiliate me on social media.

Wayne Long is a hypocrite.


Tom Simmons  

Reply to @Douglas James: of course he is, it's part of being a liberal.

Winston Gray 

Reply to @Tom Simmons: better than a Crookservative

Tom Simmons  

Reply to @Winston Gray: In Canada, LIB / Cons are two sides of the same coin. We don't have real conservative party here.

Winston Gray 

Reply to @Tom Simmons: is that a veiled way of saying that the conservative values you hold dear are so heinous that no party represents those values? Good to know.

Tom Simmons 

Reply to @Winston Gray: No I'm saying both the Liberal Party...and the Conservative Party (both are left of center, liberal are farther left) are one and the same. Really look at the platforms, it's the same.

Dan Stewart: 

Reply to @Tom Simmons: Not having "a real Conservitve party here" Is this government's saving grace. Now if the Federal party could figure that out we would all be in a better place.

David Amos 

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Reply to @Douglas James: "Wayne Long is a hypocrite"
Methinks many would agree that he is worse than that N''esy Pas?

David Peters  

Reply to @Tom Simmons:
The only party that offers a different platform, that's reasonable imo, is the libertarian party.

Aloysius McGillicuddy 

Reply to @Douglas James: A census does not snoop. It collects data that can be turned into information so that we have more effective public policy. So anti-"snoopers" are misguided and supporting ideological rather than scientific public policy. This is ruining the country. There's many protections of data anonymity in the collection of census data.

Ian Scott
Its one thing to sit and type nasties to people on a screen, its another to come out in the community and say things face to face or in a committee when maybe not everyone shares your ideas and to get your point across pleasantly and with statistics and reality to back you up.


James Smythe 

Reply to @Ian Scott: Have you ever tried to schedule a face to face meeting with a politician, especially one higher up the food chain? It’s near impossible. There’s almost no accountability anymore. I commend this young lady for taking a free app and making her voice heard. Is it sad that’s what it’s come to? Of course, but the burden of arriving here does not rest solely on her shoulders.

David Amos 

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Reply to @Ian Scott: Methinks Mr Long and his cop buddies must admit that I am not afraid of running for public office and suing the Crown as well N'esy Pas?

Al Clark 

Reply to @David Amos: You couldn't run 30 feet for a doughnut! ;-)

Al Clark 

Reply to @David Amos: To sue you have to fill out a form and pay a fee. Emails don't count.

Ben Haroldson 

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The be nice approach NEVER works.

David Amos   

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Reply to @Ben Haroldson: I know that to be a FACT OF LIFE

David Peters 

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Reply to @Ben Haroldson:
It does with nice, reasonable ppl, but many of those simply leave here. 

 

Gil Murray
Lots of people like attention. Activist and politician - same coin different side.


Ken Dwight 

Reply to @Gil Murray: Or people commenting on social media boards. We post comments because we want the attention, so what's the difference?

David Amos  

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Reply to @Ken Dwight: Methinks the big difference is I comment on social media boards in order to support my litigation N'esy Pas?

Michael G. L. Geraldson
Never underestimate the power of social media, or a woman's wrath!


David Amos 

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Reply to @Michael G. L. Geraldson: Oh So True

 

Matt Steele

Ms. Grogan , like everyone else , has an opinion , but very little will change . Sadly , N.B. is one of the poorest provinces in Canada , with one of the lowest ranked education systems , highest unemployment rates , oldest populations , and nepotism in govt. hiring that is out of control ; .and other than the population getting even older , I have not seen any of these things change in the last 40 years . Ms. Grogan is young and idealistic , but as she gets older , she will learn what the reality really is in N.B. ; and then she must accept that she can stay , or she can go....and many folks who want to be successful have chosen to leave N.B.

David Amos   

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Reply to @Matt Steele: How should we regard your constant opinions?

Chris Merriam
Yeah, she's a real hero.


David Amos  

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Reply to @Chris Merriam: If you say so

Chris Merriam 

Reply to @David Amos: Time for you to go to bed, little guy. I think you've had enough internet for today.

Harvey York 

Reply to @Chris Merriam: it's the end of the month. Needs to go cash his cheque and refill his meds.

David Amos  

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Reply to @Chris Merriam: Methinks its interesting that two RCMP shills followed me to a far more important story today that has been long delayed in closing much to the chagrin of Mr Long et al N'esy Pas?

David Peters
This is sort of interesting, but, what about the letter the local hotel association sent to city council on Monday night? A 5% occupancy rate? What have we allowed a few authoritarian's to do to our economy?

Winston Gray

Reply to @David Peters: the only authoritarianism in this country is being committed by the UCP in Alberta.

David Amos 

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Reply to @Winston Gray: Yea Right

David Peters 

Reply to @Winston Gray:
What's an example of ucp policy that's authoritarian?