Tuesday 29 September 2020

Funding abortions in private clinics would be a 'slippery slope,' says Higgs

 

 

https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies



Replying to   @alllibertynews and 49 others 
Content disabled???
Methinks Noa Mendelsohn Aviv's should have a long talk with her dubious associates Cara Zwibel, Mikey Bryant a former Attorney General and their old buddy Nathalie Des Rosiers N'esy Pas? 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/ccla-threatens-lawsuit-over-abortion-1.5763355

 

Civil liberties group prepared to sue New Brunswick over access to abortion

Province is asked to repeal law that prevents funding outside hospitals

 

Mia Urquhart · CBC News · Posted: Oct 16, 2020 5:00 AM AT

 


Clinic 554, the only location in the province to offer surgical abortions outside a hospital, closed its doors on Sept. 30. (CBC)

Citizens shouldn't have to sue their own government to ensure the right to health-care services, says the doctor who runs Fredericton's abortion clinic. 

"In a perfect world, you don't have to sue your government to either respect the Canada Health Act or simply provide equal access to health care," said Dr. Adrian Edgar. 

But the New Brunswick government's rigid refusal to fund abortions outside of hospitals has left civil libertarians no choice but to start legal action, said Noa Mendelsohn Aviv of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association. 

The organization sent a letter to the New Brunswick government Wednesday, promising legal action if the government doesn't repeal the law that only allows for funding for abortions done in hospitals. 

Mendelsohn Aviv said she doesn't believe the government will repeal the law without a fight.

"Although we started it with a letter and we'd like to end it with the letter ... we are going to see it through. We have the resources. We have the support. We have the team. We have the knowledge. And we intend to pursue this all the way through until an unnecessary, unjustifiable restriction on access to abortion is removed or repealed," said Mendelsohn Aviv, the association's equality program director.

She said New Brunswick continues to ignore the constitutional rights of women, girls and trans individuals. 

Kerri Froc, an associate law professor at the University of New Brunswick, who is helping the Canadian Civil Liberties Association in its action against the government, said it's "totally ridiculous" to have to resort to a lawsuit to get the government to make changes that every other province already has. 

"It shouldn't have to come to this," she said. 

"I just don't agree with the government spending our hard-earned tax dollars to go and try to litigate this so that people that have been denied health care are fighting against a government using their own money, essentially," said Froc.

 

Kerri Froc, an associate law professor at the University of New Brunswick, at a gathering last month to protest the closing of Clinic 554. (Submitted by Kerri Froc)

The province has steadfastly been against funding abortions since the 1980s, when Dr. Henry Morgentaler first announced that he would set up an abortion clinic in Fredericton. 

Through a series of court battles and constitutional challenges, the province eventually began funding abortions done in hospitals. 

Currently, three hospitals — two in Moncton and one in Bathurst — perform surgical abortions. 

Clinic 554 in Fredericton continues to perform abortions, although "that could end any day," said Edgar, since they're not funded by Medicare. 

Edgar said the building is for sale, but he's still willing to talk to government officials about the future of the facility. He says no one has ever called him back — not the premier, the health minister, nor the province's chief medical officer of health.

 

The building that houses Clinic 554 until Sept. 30 is up for sale. (Mike Heenan/CBC)

He said he sent at least 30 messages to the former health minister and four to the new minister and hasn't received anything in return. 

Edgar has also scaled back his family medicine practice to only the "most vulnerable patients," putting thousands of people back on the waiting list for a family doctor.  

"There are some services that we could reintroduce or try to maintain, especially the ones that are so unique. The government really has to respond to any of my attempts to meet with them. And they just simply don't."

That leaves three hospitals that perform surgical abortions — and now two of them are practically shut down after the Moncton health region was returned to the orange phase. People are advised not to travel into or out of those areas, which means access to abortions is even further limited, said Froc. 

"New Brunswick's restrictions on abortions are insidious and create undue hardship on women, girls and trans individuals … With those three hospitals in two cities, 90 per cent of New Brunswickers do not have adequate abortion services in their local community," said Mendelsohn Aviv. 

"We're continuing Dr. Morgentaler's fight, and are committed to seeing this through," she said. 

While not optimistic, Edgar is hopeful that the government won't continue to fight a legal battle that governments all across Canada have conceded in recent decades. 

"Well, my hope is that the government in New Brunswick will just take a moment to reflect on what there is to gain and what there is to lose by fighting a protracted court battle," said Edgar. 

Froc calls it "a loser of a case." 

Legal history

Mendelsohn Aviv doesn't think the province's initial approach to Morgentaler will hold much legal weight if the province decides to fight this time around. 

At the time, Morgentaler applied for public interest standing in the case, but the province argued that only a woman directly affected by the restrictions could challenge their constitutionality. 

In 2009, the Court of Appeal of New Brunswick rejected the province's argument and granted Morgentaler public-interest standing. 

The decision was not appealed, but Morgentaler died before the challenge could proceed. 

Mendelsohn Aviv says the law on public interest standing has evolved since that time and she doesn't think the New Brunswick government would get very far with it today. 

She said courts understand that average citizens don't have the time or the resources to launch protracted legal battles on constitutional issues. 

"And so there is more room for public interest groups to advance causes on behalf of the many people who are affected in the public," said Mendelsohn Aviv. 

And that's where groups like hers come in. 

When asked for an interview with Premier Blaine Higgs on Thursday, a spokesperson for the province responded by email on Friday morning, saying, "We do not comment on potential legal matters."

 

 

 

172 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.



David Amos
Content disabled
Methinks Noa Mendelsohn Aviv's should have a long talk with many of her dubious associates Trust that her boss the former Attorney General of Ontario Mikey Bryant who received by registered US Mail the same Hard Copy of my material in 2005 before I ran in the election of the 39th Parliament in Fat Fred City.. The current Attorney General of New Brunswick Teddy Flemming whom she wishes to agrue cannot deny that Brad Green a former AG answered me in writing in 2004 as did the liberal AG Mikey Murphy years later N'esy Pas?
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: Methinks many laweers should affirm that Mikey Bryant knows I went to great lengths to make certain Higgy et al and the many minions working for their pal Premier Ford were made well aware of what went down between the lawyers Nathalie Des Rosiers, Cara Zwibel, the dubious law professors working for UNB and Me Myself and I when the Fat Fred City Finest arrested Higgy's infamous blogger buddy Chucky many moons ago N'esy Pas? 

 
 
 
 
 

 
Roy Baty
Civil liberties group for all lives except for the lives of the unborn. That's rich. Abortion is the termination of another life other than the mother within the same body. Anything else is merely an opinion on either side of the debate. For that reason alone, taxpayers should not be on the hook for it unless the life of the mother is in grave danger.
 
 
Chris Jones
Reply to @Roy Baty: It's already been decided by the courts, so your personal opinion on the matter is moot
 
 
Roy Baty
Reply to @Chris Jones: So Camada has a law on abortion now? Do tell.. Remember this is not the USA
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Chris Jones: What law? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Cindy Cooper
Many have been watching the Lila Rose interview on The Rubin Report.
 
David Amos
Reply to @Cindy Cooper: Why?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Marc Bourque
Dr. Adrian Edgar doesnt give a flying you know what...he us just wanting to sue for his financial gain...
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Marc Bourque: I concur
 
 
Dutch Diefenbaker 
Reply to @Marc Bourque: Mental Health services should be more available which is clear if you view some of these posts. Get help while you still can.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Marc Martin
More suits against the Higgs government, how many do they have in row now ??
 
 
Archie Levesque
Reply to @Marc Martin: The red team you so admire has done nothing on this either Marc
 
 
Lou Bell 
Reply to @Marc Martin: Higgs made a decision ! Where are / have teh SANB Liberals been on thsi ? And what did they do about it ? Self entitled " fence sitters " love criticizing others decisions but can't / won't reveal where they stand ? No intestinal fortitude !!!
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Lou Bell @Marc Martin: Methinks Higgy et al are well aware that I am Pro Life. Furthermore you sheople know as well as I that legions of lawyers, cops politicians and bureaucrats cannot deny that the same material the Attorny General of New Brunwsick answered in writing TWICE in 2004 plus a great deal more has been argued by the Crown in Federal Court in Fat Fred City many times N'esy Pas?
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @Archie Levesque: The red team did funded the clinic....Pay attention...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
JOhn D Bond
This issue should not be about funding services outside the health care system. It should be about the government providing adequate health care within the province. If it can be shown that the system is not capable of doing it then private clinics should be funded in lieu of the governments failure.
There is no defined requirement in the Health Act that requires clinics be funded. Rather the services need to be made available and not rationed.
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @JOhn D Bond: The problem is they are receiving money to fund it.
 
 
JOhn D Bond
Reply to @Marc Martin: I would say the government is receiving the money to Fund abortions. Not delineated as abortions performed in non government facilities. What other provinces have done does not create a template. It was done to alleviate the pressure on the hospital system. As I said if the province cannot provide an adequate level of support then they need to look at funding options. But no one is saying NB isn't providing sufficient capacity, instead it is all about a different issue
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @JOhn D Bond: You obviously did not watch the news, even Trudeau addressed this.
 
 
JOhn D Bond
Reply to @Marc Martin: The issue is what politicians say to the camera is very different with what the actual Act says.
 
 
Lou Bell
Reply to @Marc Martin: What did the liberals do with the money ?????????
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell: Nobody cares
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @Lou DumBell: The Liberals removed the money from the transfers it was in the news a few months ago pay attention...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Matt Steele:
Well surprise , surprise ; another day , and another endless story about Clinic 554 . It is like the movie " Groundhog Day " where the same thing is repeated over and over . The govt. has many staff lawyers on the payroll , so a lawsuit is probably nothing new , or out of the ordinary for any govt. .
 
 
Gil Murray
Reply to @Matt Steele: This is rather endless on this website. One can only imagine why one story dominates so much space. But I always thank CBC for setting my moral compass for me.
 
 
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Matt Steele:
It could be worse, it could be somebody associated with the city of St John whining about money....................
 
 
Tony Chamberlain
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Not sure if that is worst...Equal in my eyes.
 
 
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Tony Chamberlain:
I think the idea of standing around (doing not much of anything) and whining about money is worse that those willing to put at least a little effort in to correct their situation.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Of course I believe Free Speech is everything in a purportedly profound "Just Democracy" Methinks even a British comedian would agree that it begins with saying things in a public forum with a true name N'esy Pas?
 
 
John Grail 
Reply to @Matt Steele: It's almost like there were an abortion agenda or something...
 
 
Emmanuel Rochon 
Reply to @Matt Steele: surprise, surprise, another man who is tired of talking about abortion. Hmmm.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Lorne Allen
People have the right to kill a baby but not the right to go bare-faced in public. Weird.
 
 
Winston Gray
Reply to @Lorne Allen: The choice is what matters. You don't want an abortion then don't get one, but don't force your view on others and prevent them from having control over their own body.
 
 
Tony Chamberlain
Reply to @Winston Gray: What about accountability for their own actions? Yes it is your body but it is also your responsibility to look after it.
 
 
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Lorne Allen:
That very good question should be directed directly to Mr Higgs.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: I concur
 
 
Buddy Best 
Reply to @Winston Gray: The control is in the hands of the participants before conception. There are not a 100,000 broken condoms a year. If there were there would be grounds for a real class action law suits.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dan Lee
I went to see a health specialist yesterday and about half way he told me that the procedures need to be done butttttttt at a cost because medicare would not cover it i would have to pay for each time i went and i am in pain...........so why should my tax dollars pay for somebody who dosnt want a child because its an inconveniance but to remove my pain at a doctor s office i have to pay out of pocket........
 
 
Winston Gray 
Reply to @Dan Lee: if you think having a child or not is a matter of CONVENIENCE then you have a lot of learning to do on the subject
 
 
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Dan Lee:
You are using a term, in your post, that I find suspect. That term is " health specialist". If you are suffering from chronic pain go and see your GP (doctor), he/she will offer you an immediate solution (likely pills), and will refer you to a specialist (also a doctor), who will access your condition and offer solutions that are covered by medicare. Any " health specialist" who wants to remove you from the medicare system and tap your bank account is highly suspect.
 
 
Agata Haueisen
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: That is unless you want an alternative to allopathic care which gives you pills that more often than not only give you more problems.
 
 
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Agata Haueisen:
I am not disparaging alternative medicine, but in this case, and all cases, conventional medicine should be explored first, especially for someone concerned with cost. You are right, the pills can cause troubles, as can anything you choose to put into your body. Anyone suffering with chronic pain needs (and deserves) relief from that pain immediately, if not sooner.
 
 
Dan Lee
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Terry i was sent there by my doctor......i have nothin againts this specialist...the only thing is his procedures would cost me money every time i went......i do not expect the goverment to pay for my treatments......pills?? i even tried the chemo pil;ls...5 little ones at a time........i even buy some medecine thru ebay .......no pity for clinics for abortion from me....if its not rape or an illness.......life for the baby
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Lee: Methinks everybody knows that Higgy et al has a "Stay" on my medicare card Hence I have to pay for ALL of my Health Care including emergency room fees etc etc as the sheople laugh and tease me about my troubles Correct?.

However it appears that at least we agree on Pro Life issues N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
John Grail
Suing for what? That private clinics be covered with taxpayer's money?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @John Grail: Yes.
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/public-funding-for-private-abortions-1.5741798

 

Funding abortions in private clinics would be a 'slippery slope,' says Higgs

New interim Liberal Leader says his party would fund private clinic abortions

 

Mia Urquhart · CBC News · Posted: Sep 28, 2020 6:18 PM AT

 


Fredericton's Clinic 554 is at the heart of a debate over funding for abortions outside hospitals. (Mike Heenan/CBC)

Kerri Froc still believes the government had no authority to remove tents that were part of a citizens protest at the New Brunswick Legislature on Friday. 

But the associate law professor at the University of New Brunswick said the debate only diverts attention from the real issue — the lack of government funding for abortions performed at Fredericton's Clinic 554. 

While seizing the tents was a "distraction," Froc said the move is "connected" to the larger issue.

"You have a government that thinks that they can ride roughshod over our private property rights, over our constitutional rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of expression, and also thumb their nose at women's constitutional rights."

She said it's the same issue that women have been battling in New Brunswick for decades. 

"We just keep on having to fight this fight over and over again. And here we are in New Brunswick in the year 2020 … having to fight fights that women had to fight in the 1970s."

Premier Blaine Higgs reacts to the removal of a Clinic 554 protester from the legislature grounds. 2:09

On Monday morning, Premier Blaine Higgs said he wasn't opposed to more hospitals offering abortions. 

"If it really is access, then there's an avenue to deal with that," he said during a news conference. 

But the request should come from health officials, not politicians, said Higgs. 

Froc said Higgs's willingness to provide abortions at more hospitals is "somewhat of a development," but she said health officials have already made it clear that they'd like to see better access. 

Horizon Health has already joined reproductive right activists in calling for funding private-clinic abortions. The authority passed a resolution to that effect earlier this year.

"Every excuse they've thrown up has been thoroughly debunked," said Froc. "So what's left?"

 

Kerri Froc, an associate law professor at the University of New Brunswick, at the Clinic 554 protest in Fredericton before the tent in back of her was taken down by government officials on Friday night. (Submitted by Kerri Froc)

As for the complaints from protesters about having their tents removed from the grounds of the New Brunswick Legislature on Friday night, Higgs said the decision wasn't made by him but by the Speaker of the legislature. 

"But it's my understanding that the protesters themselves were never removed. It was only the structures that were a concern."

Participants were protesting the lack of funding of abortions outside hospitals. Currently, Medicare only covers abortions performed at three hospitals in the province, two in Moncton and one in Bathurst.

The only other place providing surgical abortion services is Clinic 554. 

It is a slippery slope. And if you do it for one service, where does it stop?
-Blaine Higgs

On Friday evening, protesters were presented with a notice from the sergeant-at-arms. It said that no structures, including tents, could be erected on the property and camping was not permitted.

Froc, who was part of the protest, said there was no legal basis for removing the tents. She said she spent hours looking for legal justification and couldn't find any. 

Speaker Daniel Guitard told CBC News on the weekend that he made the decision with the staff and advisory team after being told it was a longstanding practice not to permit tents on the property for security reasons. 

Dominic Cardy, who criticized the speaker in a tweet Saturday, refused to discuss the issue with reporters Monday. He would not say whether he agrees the Speaker had the authority to remove the tents.

On Monday, the newly named interim Liberal leader sided solidly with the protestors. 

"The protest should not have happened," said Roger Melanson. "Because if the current premier would fund Clinic 554, there wouldn't have been anybody here on the weekend. And individual rights and women's rights would have been respected."

 

Interim Liberal Leader Roger Melanson says his party would fund Clinic 554. (CBC)

Melanson said his party supports funding Clinic 554.

"We have said that during the campaign and we still support that," he said on Monday. 

"It's a human right, it's an individual right, and the premier should realize that the services that are offered there are important and essential."

Clinic 554

Clinic 554 is a family medical practice that, in its words, "is committed to sex-positive, gender-celebratory care, anti-racist and feminist practices, and full-scope reproductive care, including abortions."

It serves about 3,000 patients as a family practice, and every service it provides — other than abortion — is covered by Medicare, said Dr. Adrian Edgar, who runs the clinic.

Edgar, who specializes in LGBTQ care, said the clinic subsidizes the cost of abortions for patients. He said that just isn't viable and he plans to close the facility. 

On Monday, Higgs maintained his position that the province is not violating the Canada Health Act by not funding abortions outside hospitals. 

He said abortions are already funded at three hospitals and if the question is about access, "then the next suggestion should be, 'Well, then is there another hospital that should be performing the service?'"

Higgs said he's concerned that funding abortions in private clinics would set a precedent. 

"So if we're going to suggest … that it's more cost-effective to offer services in a private clinic, then where does that stop? Does that mean that we should continue to offer more and more services in private clinics and less and less services in public institutions?" 

Higgs said it's "a slippery slope. And if you do it for one service, where does it stop?"

 

 


99 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.

 

 

David Amos
Methinks there is no law for or against abortion. Hence I don't think my taxes should fund the demise of the unborn. N'esy Pas? 
 
 
 
David Amos
"Dominic Cardy, who criticized the speaker in a tweet Saturday, refused to discuss the issue with reporters Monday. He would not say whether he agrees the Speaker had the authority to remove the tents."

Methinks Cardy has finally been told to clam up N'esy Pas? 
 
 
 
Buford Wilson
Content disabled 
Abortion is a ghastly business all around.
It's not something we should be promoting.
 
 
Denise Leblanc
Content disabled 
Reply to @Buford Wilson:
Make your case.
 
 
Jake Wright
Content disabled 
Reply to @Denise Leblanc: P.S. my mistake on the New York Times. The article is closed for opinions now.
 
 
Jake Wright
Content disabled 
Reply to @Buford Wilson: "We"?? Who are you speaking for.
 
 
Denise Leblanc
Content disabled 
Reply to @Jake Wright:
No harm no foul.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Denise Leblanc: Nor I
 
 
David Amos 
Content disabled 
Reply to @Buford Wilson: imagine you and I actually agreeing again
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Thomas Imber
If the provincial Liberals want a chance in 4 years, they need to think twice about their support for issues that the hard-left are fixated on (in this case, a boutique privatized abortion clinic). 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Thomas Imber: Yup
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Trueman
I find it odd that people who lean left, like this university professor, get all up in arms anytime the word "privatization" is mentioned when it comes to health care, yet they want to support a private clinic that does abortions. Wonder how they justify and reconcile that? 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @David Trueman: Go figure
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Trueman 
Abortions are available at 3 hospitals. Health care dollars are hard to find yet these folks feel entitled to having a private clinic provide them as well? Why? Is a hospital not good enough? 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @David Trueman: Methinks fake left lawyers thins just like the political lawyer David Dingwall in that they are entitled to their entitlements N'esy Pas? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Trueman
Yet another University professor from the far left side.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Trueman: Methinks there must be something in the water in Fat Fred City even the City Council shook its head at their poet last night N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
William Edwards
I'm glad my mother didn't abort me and I would think so are the pro choicers.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @William Edwards: Me Too
 
 
SarahRose Werner
Reply to @William Edwards: My mother would have had a happier life if she'd aborted me. She was on the verge of leaving my father when she discovered she was pregnant. She decided to stay and try to make the marriage work for the sake of the child. Big mistake.
 
 
Rudy Hicks 
Reply to @William Edwards: Glad you think you can decide how other people should live.
 
 
Beverley Kernan 
Reply to @SarahRose Werner:
SarahRose ... Your posts are always thoughtful, informative, insightful and calming.
Particularly during COVID.
I, for one, am glad your mother "decided to stay and try to make ... for the sake of the child". You bring so much intelligence and common sense to the commentary.
Thank you.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Beverley Kernan: Yea Right
 
 
Viv Myers
Reply to @SarahRose Werner:
SarahRose, it sounds like your childhood wasn't always pleasant from what was suggested here, and I'm sorry to hear that happened...

HOWEVER....I'm glad you're with us, and your mom kept you. You are NOT a mistake.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Viv Myers: Methinks notwithstanding any ethical debate about the rights of the unborn and whereas I am not one bit religious I truly believe the old bard addressed the longstanding quandary of our existence quite well byway of Hamlet dealing with his conscience N'esy Pas? 
 
 
Joe Rootliek 
Reply to @William Edwards: Glad you are here William. 
 
  
Joe Rootliek
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: I see your comments all the time on here, and speaking for myself, I am glad you are debating and bringing in much welcome thought and different ways of looking at things into the debate.

I am glad you are here to express your views, you are a star in the midnight sky.
 
 
Viv Myers
Reply to @David Amos:
I definitely don't use Hamlet as a reference when envisioning how we should live our lives.

And, to me, there is no question...'TO BE' is the answer.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Viv Myers: Despite your disdain of me go figure why we agree on the right 'TO BE"
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Viv Myers: “This above all: to thine own self be true And it must follow, as the night the day Thou canst not then be false to any man Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!” Hamlet Act 1, Scene III by The Old Bard (Methinks many folks are sure who he really was N'esy Pas?) 
 
 
Viv Myers
Reply to @David Amos:
I'm not sure what you're getting at - I have absolutely no disdain for you whatsoever.
 
 
David Amos 
Reply to @Viv Myers: If so then you are among a precious few 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dan Short
Abortion is such a tricky issue, there's just so many nuances and factors to it.

Unfortunately the debate is only going to get worse over the next 20 years as science continues to improve in leaps and bounds and we learn more and more about the unborn and what they will be after birth and as they grow.

I can easily envision by 2050 by week four of a pregnancy we have a complete map of the unborn and who and what they will be. Height, illnesses, hair colour, sex, genetic markers. Etc.

It really is a fascinating ethical issue. 
 
  
David Amos  
Content disabled 
Reply to @Dan Short: Its not a tricky issue to me. There is no law for or against abortion. Hence I don't think my taxes should fund the demise of the unborn.

Methinks you should consider that fact that we all once walked in the path of the souls of the unborn who can't speak for themselves yet. Please consider your ethics again. i trust that the pro choice people cannot deny they had the same standing as the unborn for 9 months or so and are no doubt doubt grateful to walk among us now and yap a great deal about their right to free health care while Higgy et al deny me the right to the same N'esy Pas?
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dan Short: Methinks the deletion of my reply to you speaks volumes to me N'esy Pas? 

 










John Grail
Apparently the hill the Liberals want to die on is abortion... 
 
 
buster jones
Reply to @John Grail: Apparently the hill the Conservatives want to die on is abortion
 
 
David Amos 
Reply to @buster jones: Me Too 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 


Emery Hyslop-Margison
Although some are unwilling to accept the logic, the issue of abortions is not a simple bifurcation. There are many nuances that require consideration. An abortion at 3 months is not the same as an abortion at 6 months. Further, it is a legitimate question to ask whether abortion is a default birth control method. It’s complicated.
 
 
Dan Short 
Reply to @Emery Hyslop-Margison:
You can know the sex by week 9 or 10.

Do we really want gender based child selection in Canada?
 
 
Dan Lee
Reply to @Emery Hyslop-Margison:
killing an unborn baby at 3 month is the same as killing an unborn baby at 6 month
 
 
Emery Hyslop-Margison
Reply to @Dan Lee: not really / there are developmental milestones along the way- but I do respect your position.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Emery Hyslop-Margison:
So who gets to determine th@4 level of "feel".
 
 
Roy Baty
Reply to @Emery Hyslop-Margison: Whene these is no immediate threat to safety of baby or mother, what is complicated about it? Either you choose to end a life growing inside a mother or you choose not to. The rest is all opinion no matter what side of the ideological spectrum you are on.
 
 
Roy Baty
Reply to @Roy Baty: Should read "When there is" above.
 
 
Dan Lee
Reply to @Roy Baty:
Shh but almost all pro choices refuse to even consider it a living thing (probably so they can sleep at night).

I've gotten into many many arguments about that point with my fellow pro choices. It really bothers me thst they use that excuse/logic.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Lee: "killing an unborn baby at 3 month is the same as killing an unborn baby at 6 month"

I concur

 

 

 


 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Dan Short
If it's really a health issue, it shouldn't be done for profit. 
 
 
Denise Leblanc
Reply to @Dan Short:
Like dental hygiene?
 
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Denise Leblanc:
That depends. Most dentist work is cosmetic and not health.
 
 
Denise Leblanc 
Reply to @Dan Short:
Try doing some research.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Denise Leblanc:
You don't die from a removed tooth instead of a root canal to make it pretty again.
 
 
Emery Hyslop-Margison
Reply to @Denise Leblanc: it’s not really a research question Denise. At its core it’s a moral issue with scientific nuances.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Short: Please name a doctor in NB who does not make big bucks off our health care
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Dan Short: Please explain your reasoning to the ghosts of many folks who died of tainted blood infections years ago   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Amos    
Content disabled
"Dominic Cardy, who criticized the speaker in a tweet Saturday, refused to discuss the issue with reporters Monday. He would not say whether he agrees the Speaker had the authority to remove the tents."

Methinks Cardy has finally been told to clam up N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Chantal LeBouthi
Higgs goes biblical against women’s health

Pathetic
 
 
Dan Lee
Reply to @Chantal LeBouthi:
health or burden?
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Chantal LeBouthi:
Please quote the bible parts he quoted.
 
 
buster jones
Reply to @Dan Short: Thou must tout thy abortion card to divide and conquor, lest ye be the worst affliction set upon man.
 
 
David Amos 
Content disabled 
Reply to @buster jones: Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged
   








  





Denise Leblanc 
Higgs said it's "a slippery slope. And if you do it for one service, where does it stop?"
I wonder if he has a clue?
 
 
 
Denise Leblanc
Reply to @Terry Tibbs:
And the trails to the moon are fabricated with Martian dust
 
 
David Amos 
Content disabled 
Reply to @Denise Leblanc: Methinks Mr Tibbs will be missed N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



Marc LeBlanc                                                                                                                                          And this is just the beginning of four years of "the world according to Higgs" 

 
Denise Leblanc
Reply to @Marc LeBlanc:
The history of politics.
 
 
Denise Leblanc
Reply to @Denise Leblanc:
And censorship.
 
 
Fred Dee
Reply to @Marc LeBlanc: liberals had 4 years,,, did not change the funding!!!!
 
 
John Grail
Reply to @Marc LeBlanc: Less abortion is a good thing...
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @John Grail: I concur and none whatsoever would be even better 
 

David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @John Grail: Methinks its verboten to agree with you N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Roy Kirk
So make them available in every hospital. Slippery slope gone. 
 
 
 
 
Roy Kirk
Reply to @Dan Short: Perhaps, perhaps not. But it's not your call, or mine, is it. It's a matter between patient and doctor.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Roy Kirk:
Which it shouldn't be if it's simply not wanting a kid. Which has nothing to do with health and a doctor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pro abortion. But let's be real and not use fake justifications,
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dan Short: Methinks it should be obvious to you that I am pro life Too bad so sad that I was not permitted to stress test your ethics N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
SarahRose Werner  
 "Horizon Health has already joined reproductive right activists in calling for funding private-clinic abortions." - Why isn't Horizon Health offering abortions at its own facilities instead of punting this responsibility to private clinics?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Go Figure Why I Don't Care
 

 

 

https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies

 

Replying to   @alllibertynews and 49 others
Content disabled
Methinks there must be something in the water in Fat Fred City even the City Council shook its head at their poet last night N'esy Pas?


https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/09/funding-abortions-in-private-clinics.html

 

#cdnpoli #nbpoli

 

 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/poets-defend-place-city-hall-1.5744719

 

Poets defend their place at city hall

Fredericton tight lipped about poet laureate deliberations after some councillors object to abortion poem

 

Jennifer Sweet · CBC News · Posted: Sep 30, 2020 3:10 PM AT

 


Rebecca Thomas said she used her position as poet laureate to bring a Mi'kmaw voice to Halifax council that they were otherwise not hearing. (Emily Penton)

Two former poets laureate are praising Fredericton's Jenna Lyn Albert for drawing attention to the closure of Clinic 554.

Albert read a poem about abortion at Monday night's city council meeting and dedicated it to the clinic, which may be closing for good Wednesday, because of a lack of government funding for its services.

The clinic has been a family practice with about 3,000 patients and provided specialized care to the LGBTQ2+ community. It has also been the only place in the city and all of central or western New Brunswick where abortions were available.

The poem "acknowledges some of the ways in which there are still barriers and issues in terms of access," to abortion, said Albert.

After she read the poem, some councillors said it was too political and suggested the matter should be referred to the city's governance committee, a working group made up of two councillors and six staffers, who do research and make recommendations to council.

City communications staff could not yet confirm what exactly that working group will be asked to look into, if anything.

It's a poet laureate's responsibility to bring forth community concerns, according to former Halifax poet laureate Rebecca Thomas.

"It is a position of influence and public voice and so I think using that responsibility in this way is a very good thing."

Thomas said poems can be a starting point for difficult conversations.

During her tenure, she wrote and recited a poem to Halifax council about removing a statue of the city's founder Edward Cornwallis, who signed a proclamation offering a cash bounty to anyone who killed a Mi'kmaw person.


Halifax's poet laureate Rebecca Thomas on the legacy of Edward Cornwallis. 3:09

It ignited debate and within a year, a majority of councillors voted to have the statue removed.

"I just happened to have a pithy few lines that were impactful to the councillors. But to be associated with that was pretty incredible."

Albert said she tried to model her work in the poet laureate position after Thomas and after another Halifax poet El Jones, who gave voice to the underrepresented Black community.

Women are similarly underrepresented on Fredericton city council.

Thomas noted the councillors who voiced their objections to the abortion poem were male.

"That signals to me that perhaps those council members need to have a better education on what it is like to be a woman in those circumstances," she said.

Albert's predecessor Ian Letourneau said he's proud of Albert and stands "firmly" behind her.

"Poets need to respond to what is happening in their community," he said, and "speak truth, however they see fit."

A poet laureate has "a finger on the pulse of the community," he said, "to know what needs to be discussed, dissected, and viewed from different angles."

The closure of Clinic 554 is of pressing community importance, said Letourneau.

"What better subject to call attention to right now and ask us to reflect on for a few moments than this?"

"The needed health services they provide to women and the LGBTQ community are about to evaporate, throwing thousands of vulnerable patients on a doctor waiting list."

While he was cultural laureate, Ian Letourneau wrote about the accomplishments of famed Black hockey player Willie O'Ree, the "suffering and resilience" of victims of the St. John River floods and the virtues of elm trees -- the latter coming just as a controversy flared up over tree cutting in Officers' Square. (Nathalie Sturgeon/CBC )

Letourneau said if anything about the poet laureate's role should be examined, it's the compensation, to bring it up to what others are paid.

According to the League of Canadian Poets there are poets laureate in about 30 communities across the country who have varying degrees of artistic freedom.

They "foster essential, personal and timely conversations through their art," said League president Sarah de Leeuw.

Albert said she welcomed a discussion of her role, but she hopes council doesn't set too many restrictions.

"Poetry is inherently political," she said. "It would be lacklustre if you were to take that aspect of of creativity and of the art form away from it."

Albert's term expires in December. She wonders what's in store for her successor.

"If we have a Black poet laureate, will they be able to share poems about things that concern them? If we have an Indigenous poet laureate, will they be able to read poetry about missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls? It really brings about a bigger concern for whether these poets will feel like they're being censored and unable to share poetry,  that isn't fluffy and pretty."

With files from Maritime Noon and Information Morning Fredericton

 

 
 
 
 
26 Comments 
Commenting is now closed for this story.
 
 
 
David Amos
Methinks the Fake Left rule Fat Fred City N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Chantal LeBouthi
I don’t even know why they still do a prayer
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Chantal LeBouthi:
In most cases, the hate isn't for religion per se, it is for baptism and Catholicism. Meanwhile efforts continue to ensure other religions and their practices are allowed in Canada. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Samual Johnston
During her tenure, she wrote and recited a poem to Halifax council about removing a statue of the city's founder Edward Cornwallis, who signed a proclamation offering a cash bounty to anyone who killed a Mi'kmaw person.
 

Why would we condemn anyone for such an act when it was perfectly acceptable at the time. Like slavery - many people would've us believe it began and ended in the USA. How many who supported the removal of the statue would also support tearing down the Roman Colosseum because it was built with slave labour and was the location of thousands of brutal murders? Why can't people accept history for what it was, learn from it and move on?
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Samual Johnston:
Why can't we move on?

Because that doesn't come with a "payday" for something done to a distant ancestor.
 
 
Emery Hyslop-Margison
Reply to @Samual Johnston: no one mentions Cornwallis retaliated against the scalping of colonists in his actions? Isn’t that a relevant fact?
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Emery Hyslop-Margison:
No it was hundreds of years ago. Nobody is still alive to "compensate".
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
John MacKenzie
I am indifferent to any content they produce, but am disgusted that they receive a penny of city money.
 
 
Samual Johnston
Reply to @John MacKenzie: agreed it would be wrong if they receive money for this - but do they and if so how much?
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Samual Johnston:
$3,000 per year
 
 
Ray Oliver
Reply to @Dan Short: per year or per limerick?
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Ray Oliver:
Well 3k a year works out to 4 hours a week at $er hour,

I don't think it takes four hours to read the limerick so you may be correct on the charge per limerick

 

 

 


Dan Short
we should not be paying for any art performances at council.

Especially for performances that are divisive and divide the population. City council job is to build unity,

 
 
James Edward
Reply to @Dan Short: diversity is strength don't ya know.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @James Edward:
In general yes it is.

However there are certainly topics that are more fire than fuel.
 
 
Douglas James
Reply to @Dan Short: I hardly think a poem, no matter how controversial, is dividing the population. Plus, you can't have unity unless you are willing to hear all sides of issues and discuss things with those with whom you disagree.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Douglas James:
Hearing a poem was done does not provide a forum for discussion of the issue to come to a position of unity.

So I can assume you'd be okay with a far right poem being read?
 
 
Ray Oliver
Reply to @James Edward: no. It isn't and never will b

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


James Edward
Why is poetry even being read at city hall? What do art performances have to do with city affairs? This has nothing to do with the subject matter, more on what art has to do with running the city?
 
 
Emery Hyslop-Margison
Reply to @James Edward: I think it’s called virtue signalling?



 


Fredericton city councillors question poet laureate's role after abortion poem read

While some councillors say poem was too political, others disagree

 
Lauren Bird · CBC News · Posted: Sep 29, 2020 8:00 AM AT



Some Fredericton city councillors said a poem about abortion read by poet laureate Jenna Lyn Albert was too political while others disagreed.

The role of Fredericton's poet laureate is being questioned after Jenna Lyn Albert read a poem about abortion access at Monday night's council meeting, which some councillors said was too political. 

The issue will go to the governance committee for further discussion.

"I'm terribly concerned that we are now politicizing our poems," said Coun. Dan Keenan, after Albert read the poem.  

"I completely agree with freedom of speech and the right for people to say what they want to say — but that was never the intention of this form that we developed."

The poem, Those Who Need To Hear This Won't Listen by Ottawa-based poet Conyer Clayton, depicts her experience having an abortion. Here it is in part:  

I cried.
A procedural pinch
deep in my belly.                         Little pinch now.
Nondescript ceiling.                      Big pinch now.
A nurse held my hand. 
                                                
                                                  Are you ready?
                                                  Are you sure? 

Albert said she felt there was a need to share the poem now.

"With the impending closure of Clinic 554 … I felt it was really important to share a poem about the importance of abortion access." 

Coun. Stephen Chase agreed with Keenan.

"It was never intended to be a political statement. I think Coun. Keenan's comments are absolutely right." 

Reflection of community

Keenan called for a rethink of how the poet laureate operates. But not at all councillors agreed. 

"It's a reflection of our community," said Coun. John MacDermid. 

"We've had commentary, we've had poems about Black Lives Matter and the experience of people of colour within our community, and it's not the experience that anyone around this table has," MacDermid said. "And it's important that we have those conversations. It's not political. It's a better community and it's a reflection of our community."

He added that he would not want to change the kind of conversation the poet laureate brings to council. 

Coun. Kate Rogers said it's the role of the poet laureate to provide cultural commentary.

"The arts gives an opportunity for a person to be provocative and to express ideas and perspectives … and to me, that's what we have had."

Albert said she was shocked by the response to the poem. 

"It is kind of difficult to be a woman sharing a poem about reproductive rights, which are evidently important to me and many people that have uteruses in this city and in this province and to be shut down and told it's too political, which is often the case when you're discussing issues like this — it's really difficult"

But this isn't the first time she's faced pushback on a poem that could be considered controversial. 

In June, Albert proposed the reading of a poem by local poet Thandiwe McCarthy, Enough, about police violence against Black people. Initially she was not allowed to read the poem. Mayor Mike O'Brien later said he regretted the decision, and McCarthy was invited to perform his poem at council.

About the Author

Lauren Bird is a journalist at CBC New Brunswick. You can contact her at lauren.bird@cbc.ca

 

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices

 
 
 
199 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
 
 
 
 
Theo Trapper
Allow voices you don't agree with to speak. It doesn't matter what side of any argument is presented, there is absolutely nothing that is so sacred of a topic to ban speech.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Theo Trapper: I Wholeheartedly Agree Sir
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Theo Trapper:

In the proper place, yes,

Council meetings need to be for business. Otherwise nothing will ever get done if we just let everyone present their art.

They already don't get the work done they need to. They hardly need more distractions.

If they (council) want to have open mic night, then hold an event. 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dan Short
Of course if one doesn't want a kid at all, one could practice abstinence, then abortion isn't even an issue.

We are supposed to be intelligent snimals and have grown last the need to rut,
 
 
Tristis Ward
Reply to @Dan Short:
Dan, you better not have ever had any kind of kid making encounters prior to marrying the woman who is currently wanting a child, infertile, adjusted or elsewise aged out of it.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Short: I cannot imagine a life worth living without children in it.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Amos:
There are many children out there desperate for an sdult(S) to care for them. You don't need to have a kid, to have a kid,

My point was there are options rather than an abortion of one knows they do not wish to bear a kid.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Short: Are you attempting to lecture me? If you were paying attention I already stated that i adopted one child and had others of my own CORRECT?
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Amos:
I was simply stating why I made my initial comment, had zero to do with you.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Short: Yea Right 
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Amos:
What the... is your problem. Not everything is about you, 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Chantal LeBouthi
Higgs is stuck in the dark ages with is biblical morality on others

Pathetic in this days and ages
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Chantal LeBouthi: Dream on
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Chantal LeBouthi:
Seems to me it's you judging others not meeting your standards and expectations,
 
 
 
Tristis Ward
Reply to @Dan Short:
I'm (Higgs is) not judging!
You're judging, with your comment on judging!

Yeeeaah. 

 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Tristis Ward:
The comment was to Chantal. Who was attacking religion, and therefore being judgemental.

As for my posts. They are to invoke discussion and present possible other views. They rarely have little to do with how I actually feel on any issue.

Some of us can actually do that. See both sides of an issue and find good and bad points in both sides. It's called intelligence. 
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled  
Reply to @Dan Short: What does your intelligence tell you about why so many of my replies to you two going "Poof"??? 
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Tristis Ward:
You have demonstrated very little tolerance for opposing views in past encounters, 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Denise Leblanc
Art is mostly political. 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Denise Leblanc: So you say 
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Denise Leblanc: Methinks Higgy et al and more importantly the ghosts of the old soldiers who raised me and many others I counted as friends would agree these are the words of a true blue Canadian Poet N'esy Pas?

"I smoke my pipe and I meditate in the light of the Midnight Sun,
And sometimes I wonder if they was, the awful things I done.
And as I sit and the parson talks, expounding of the Law"

From the Poem entitles The Ballad of Blasphemous Bill
By Robert W. Service  
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: I repeat the there is no law pertaining to abortion Hence I have the right to protest against my taxes funding the demise of the unborn whose rights we all should respect and protect 
 
 
Noel Fowles
Reply to @David Amos: yes, and I don't want to pay for the roads you drive on, your medical premiums, your pension, and any other government services you use, have used, or will use.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Noel Fowles:
As is your right to your opinion and your ability to seek change to match your ideals.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Noel Fowles: Relax as you know your hero Higgy has denied me the right to a Medicare Card for hears while I tried to protect YOUR pension Hence you won't have to pay if I must go the emergency room again. As for the other services trust that I have paid my fair share of taxes to use OUR roads etc
 
 
Ray Oliver
Reply to @David Amos: No one believes you
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Clearly your hero Higgy don't trust his former Chief of Staff perhaps you are the reason he got booted from cabinet
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Noel Fowles: Methinks you should consider that fact that we all once walked in the path of the souls of the unborn who can't speak for themselves yet. I trust that the pro choice people cannot deny they had the same standing as the unborn for 9 months or so and are no doubt doubt grateful to walk among us now and yap a great deal about their right to free health care while Higgy et al deny me the right to the same N'esy Pas?
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Hours ago you did not dare to argue these words N'esy Pas?

"Methinks the PC lady Andrea Johnson and Higgy should not deny that the MLAs Sherry Wilson, Mary Wilson, Dorothy Shephard, Margaret Johnson, Kathy Bockus, Tammy Scott-Wallace, Jill Green, Arlene Dunn and Andrea Anderson-Mason no doubt remember everything I said to them and or about them during the election I put in writing N'esy Pas?"
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Denise Leblanc: Surprise Surprise Surprise The wise words of the poet Robert Service went "Poof"
 
 
Ray Oliver 
Reply to @David Amos: I actually have to work from time to time and don't have all day to debate you. Its called a full time job. Ever heard of them?
 
 






 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Noel Fowles  
well over 50% of pregnancies end in natural termination. To all those that think everything is god's will, it makes god the biggest abortionist of all.
 
 
Paul Richardson
Reply to @Noel Fowles: Where does this 50% number come from?
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Paul Richardson: Methinks he should allow you one guess N'esy Pas?
 
 
Winston Gray
Reply to @Paul Richardson: you don’t believe that nearly 50% of pregnancies are not complete? Miscarriages are quite common...
 
 
Paul Richardson
Reply to @David Amos: Then we both would be guessing.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Paul Richardson: Not I
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Paul Richardson: Nor am  I surprised to see my only comment go "Poof' 
 
 
Buddy Best
Reply to @Noel Fowles: You are so full of it. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts!!! 
 
 
Noel Fowles
Reply to @Paul Richardson: About 30% to 40% of all fertilized eggs miscarry, often before the pregnancy is known and then 10% to 40% more, with the 10% being in younger women and increasing with age.
 
 
Noel Fowles
Reply to @Buddy Best: You should really do your homework before telling people they are full of it. Here are the facts "About 30% to 40% of all fertilized eggs miscarry, often before the pregnancy is known and then 10% to 40% more as pregnancy continues., with the 10% being in younger women and increasing with age. "
 
 
Joe Carrey
Reply to @Paul Richardson: Science. Miscarriage rates are extremely high. Fertilized eggs are as likely to not make it as make it. You would likely know this if you had ever tried for children. My wife suffered two miscarriages before we got successfully pregnant. It was traumatic to lose the hope of a child, but nothing like losing a child. Because a fetus is not a child.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Joe Carrey:
It is however something living and growing and with potential.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Short: Thats an understatement


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Paul Richardson 
People always say to the expectant mother "When will your baby be born?" 
 
They NEVER say "When will your fetus be born?"
  
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Paul Richardson: BINGO
 
 
Winston Gray
Reply to @David Amos: not bingo. People ask expectant MOTHERS that question because they have decided to complete the pregnancy and care for the child for 16-18 years.

A person who wants an abortion by definition is NOT an “expectant mother”.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Winston Gray: Who are you to define what a Mother is?
 
 
Winston Gray
Reply to @David Amos: who are you to define what a person is?
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Winston Gray: Methinks it must be because I am a member of mankind not Trudeau the Younger's beloved "peoplekind". Furthermore many Yankees used to call me Mr Mom.Trust that the RCMP cannot deny that I brought my children to Canada with me when I ran in the elections of the 38th and 39th parliaments . If you ask many politicians whom I debated what I said throughout 7 elections thus far they would easily a affirm that this "Mr Mom" is very much Pro Life N'esy Pas?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Winston Gray: FYI My adopted daughter who has presented me with 2 grandchildren thus far is ever bit the person my natural born children are and is loved every bit as much by Mr Mom.
 
 
Tristis Ward
Reply to @David Amos: I'm not sure there's a point in there anywhere, David.
 
 
John Grail
Reply to @Winston Gray: Basic biology defines what a person is.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Tristis Ward: It was deleted
 
 
Tristis Ward
Reply to @David Amos:
Well, there, then.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Tristis Ward: Notice anything?
  
 
Tristis Ward
Reply to @David Amos:
I get frustrated when mine get removed, too.
It's a thing. A dance. A weird and unknowable maze.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Tristis Ward: Its public corruption
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Tristis Ward: Its blatantly obvious to me that the narrative is being controlled for the benefit of the Fake Left 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Too Too Funny
 
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled  
Reply to @David Amos:
"Coun. Kate Rogers said it's the role of the poet laureate to provide cultural commentary.

"The arts gives an opportunity for a person to be provocative and to express ideas and perspectives … and to me, that's what we have had."

Albert said she was shocked by the response to the poem."

Methinks if abortion issues equal culture then there must be something very strange in the water in Fat Fred City N'esy Pas?

 
 

 
 
 

 
 
 

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