Free trade between provinces? That would be anarchy
1044 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Bob Parker
Too much division in this huge country of ours . . . a Canadian is a Canadian . . . period.
I should be able to work and shop wherever I choose within my country.
I should be able to work and shop wherever I choose within my country.
David Raymond Amos
@Bob Parker My question why
did CBC take so long to point out what a joke this nonsense is. Instead
folks had to wait until the Supreme Court was willing to consider the
matter.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cfta-interprovincial-trade-july-1-1.4181380
463 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Ivan Nano
Lisa Chant
Louis Levesque
Nick Salva
..
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cfta-interprovincial-trade-july-1-1.4181380
Canada's trade deal with itself now in effect, as EU deal waits
463 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Ivan Nano
Pull all the barriers down.
It's beyond ridiculous that you can more easily trade with other countries than you can with other provinces.
It's beyond ridiculous that you can more easily trade with other countries than you can with other provinces.
David Raymond Amos
@Ivan Nano Need I say I enjoy
a never ending circus where the only things that change are the
mindless ringmasters and the far from clever clowns?
David Raymond Amos
@Ivan Nano The Supreme Court
is gonna have to listen to arguments about a decision largely won by a
clown who was one of Harper's backroom boys in short pants not very long
ago. Now if that is not pretty politically funny I don't know what is
Lisa Chant
Justin Trudeau needs to
resign he is the absolute worst Prime Minister of my lifetime. I lived
through the Mulrooney years, this is worse at least Brian Mulrooney was
intelligent I am embarrassed by Justin Trudeau.
Dan Cooper
@David Sampson
It is quite obvious that she is far too young mentally to vote.
.
Her tribe lost and she needs to grow up. The hysterics aren't helping her or the conservative cause.
I am still trying to find a party to vote for next election and conservatives keep embarrassingly proving why they are not an option.
It is quite obvious that she is far too young mentally to vote.
.
Her tribe lost and she needs to grow up. The hysterics aren't helping her or the conservative cause.
I am still trying to find a party to vote for next election and conservatives keep embarrassingly proving why they are not an option.
David Raymond Amos
@Lisa Chant What are you
talking I am not fan of Trudeau or his daddy either but Mulroney went to
great effort creating a horrendous Free Trade deal called NAFTA for the
benefit of his Yankee friends. Yet he and every other Prime Minister
could have guaranteed free trade across Canada with not much more that a
mere stroke of the pen. Ask yourself why none ever did. Better yet ask
yourself why Trudeau and his cohorts come up with another ridiculous
plan.
Louis Levesque
Trudeau seems to be more
about apologizing to special interest groups than actually getting
things done for the majority of Canadians.
David Raymond Amos
@Louis Levesque Appearing to
be sincere as he apologizes for everything to everyone under the sun
while doing selfies at the same time appears to Trudeau The Younger's
only forte N'esy Pas?
Methinks Proud Canadians should learn to quit saying sorry as an expression or we will turn into a rather sorry bunch. Everybody knows many Yankees already make a lot of fun of us for using that word all the time.
Methinks Proud Canadians should learn to quit saying sorry as an expression or we will turn into a rather sorry bunch. Everybody knows many Yankees already make a lot of fun of us for using that word all the time.
Nick Salva
Is Canada a country or not,
trade deals between the provinces. This is the BS of asymmetrical
federalism. It make Canadians unequal in their own country.
David Raymond Amos
@Nick Salva The Feds could
have put us on a ship with an even keel eons ago but they never will
because it does not behoove their personal political interests to do so.
David Raymond Amos
@Nick Salva Here Here Sir I Second Your Remark
Bob Parker
Interprovincial trade is a barrier to growth . . . free trade within Canada is a must . . . period.
David Raymond Amos
@Bob Parker Here Here Sir I
Second Your Remark (I intended to post this comment here but goofed.
However it also works for the first comment in the section above)
Marcel Pellerin
How about free trade between provinces!
As it stand now, Quebec workers can work in Ontario but Ontarians cannot work in Qebec because of the union sly dictatorship.
As it stand now, Quebec workers can work in Ontario but Ontarians cannot work in Qebec because of the union sly dictatorship.
Elizabeth.Wallace
@Marcel Pellerin
CFTA is about making that happen. That's why the article says Canada has a free trade deal with itself.
CFTA is about making that happen. That's why the article says Canada has a free trade deal with itself.
David Raymond Amos
@Elizabeth.Wallace Methinks it best that you read the whole article sometime soon
Wade Davis
Trudeau, Trudeau, Trudeau,
please call an election, We can't wait two more years for this dictator
to leave, worst than any government Canada has ever had.
David Raymond Amos
@Wade Davis Trudeau "The
Younger" and his antics are ridiculou its true but give your head a
shake if you truly think that Harper 2.0 or the NDP would be any better
and running a circus.
Jack Richards
With this deal Canadians
should be getting discounts on Canadian cheese and discounts on Canadian
gasoline and diesel fuel. Oh but I forgot we live in Canada where the
government does not care about us being gouged on everything we buy and
its worse with Trudeau in power wanting to increase gasoline and diesel
fuel prices and increasing the cost to heat a home in the winter unless
we wast more of our own money to make cheaper with no savings in the
end.
David Raymond Amos
@Jack Richards Just wait until the carbon taxes kick in then the crying time really begins.
Jackson Farley
Freeland thinks walking out
of rooms until she gets what she wants is how you close a deal. No
professional does this. If I saw somebody do that at a negotiating table
I would get up and close the door behind them on their way out.
David Raymond Amos
@Jackson Farley I thought it
was incredibly funny when Freeland cried over the EU deal heading south.
However I was shocked to see the so called world wise EU dudes fall for
such nonsense. As I said I love the circus particularly ones that offer
up such unpredictable surprises.
Paul Underhill
Blah, Blah ... Blah.
For those of you who are old enough to remember, this CETA deal
sounds just like the same BS story when Brian Mulroney brought in the "Free Trade Agreement" (1988) and NAFTA (1992).
At that time, Canadians had stable employment and pension plans
and only 3% of full time Canadian employees were paid minimum wage.
.
Now 25 years later, finance minister Bill Morneau, says Canadians should get used to "job churn" and short term employment.
Asset and Income inequality is at the highest level since the 1930's depression.
Inflation adjusted, median Canadian incomes have remained stagnant at approx. $55K
a year - while the top 100 CEO's in Canada have an average
"financial compensation" of $9.2 million a year.
850,000 Canadians rely on food banks, youth unemployment is at record levels
and 12% of Canadians earn minimum wage.
Sounds like a 3rd world country.
.
Manufacturing and Agricultural Processing has left Canada in droves and we now have an economy addicted to exporting resources - yet the prices of those resources are set internationally .ie the London Metal Exchange.
The Federal and Provincial governments now have to give corporations subsidies
in order for them to stay in Canada.
.
So if anyone thinks CETA will be a good deal for Canadians - guess again
For those of you who are old enough to remember, this CETA deal
sounds just like the same BS story when Brian Mulroney brought in the "Free Trade Agreement" (1988) and NAFTA (1992).
At that time, Canadians had stable employment and pension plans
and only 3% of full time Canadian employees were paid minimum wage.
.
Now 25 years later, finance minister Bill Morneau, says Canadians should get used to "job churn" and short term employment.
Asset and Income inequality is at the highest level since the 1930's depression.
Inflation adjusted, median Canadian incomes have remained stagnant at approx. $55K
a year - while the top 100 CEO's in Canada have an average
"financial compensation" of $9.2 million a year.
850,000 Canadians rely on food banks, youth unemployment is at record levels
and 12% of Canadians earn minimum wage.
Sounds like a 3rd world country.
.
Manufacturing and Agricultural Processing has left Canada in droves and we now have an economy addicted to exporting resources - yet the prices of those resources are set internationally .ie the London Metal Exchange.
The Federal and Provincial governments now have to give corporations subsidies
in order for them to stay in Canada.
.
So if anyone thinks CETA will be a good deal for Canadians - guess again
David Raymond Amos
@Paul Underhill I am no fan
of Mulroney but to be fair Canada's long downhill slide began with
Trudeau "The Elder" and his cohorts in the very early 1970's
Canada's trade deal with itself now in effect, as EU deal waits
July 1 implementation date for Canadian Free Trade Agreement timed to match now-delayed European deal
By Janyce McGregor, CBC News Posted: Jul 02, 2017 5:00 AM ET
Canada's provinces and territories have had 150 years to
realize one of the original goals of Confederation: free trade. A new
interprovincial trade deal takes hold this weekend, but the changes it's
meant to bring may take a while longer. (Mike DePaul/CBC Canada's agreement with the EU has stalled, but a domestic deal covering trade in goods and services between provinces is still on.
"This agreement is the most ambitious trade deal ever to cover Canada," Economic Development Minister Navdeep Bains said in a press release Thursday, calling the deal "historic" and saying it "leads to a better Canada."
But that better Canada is coming slowly. So slowly that it's unclear very many Canadians will notice any difference in the early days of the agreement.
The full text of the Canadian Free Trade Agreement (CFTA) came out last April.
It applies to all interprovincial trade, but — and it's a rather big but — a detailed list of exemptions was negotiated for each province and territory.
Laura Jones from the Canadian Federation of
Independent Business (centre) presented golden scissors to federal,
provincial and territorial ministers in April for the commitment to
"cutting red tape" in their new interprovincial trade deal. (Janyce
McGregor/CBC News)
- 'Canada is open': Interprovincial trade deal a renewed push to drop barriers
- 5 things to watch in today's interprovincial trade deal
Business groups believe the CFTA has potential. But very little's been fixed yet.
There are new processes for harmonizing things like transportation safety rules and professional credentials. A new dispute resolution system has been established to sort out cross-border grievances.
But the arrival of July 1 didn't throw a switch and standardize food packaging, energy efficiency standards or the myriad of other discrepancies that cause headaches for businesspeople trying to expand nationally or move between jurisdictions.
Even when common standards are worked out, any province that doesn't like it has the right to opt out.
Free the beer? Not yet
CBC News requested an interview with New Brunswick's Roger Melanson, the provincial minister now chairing talks between provinces and territories to implement the measures agreed upon so far.
His office sent a statement.
"I am committed to ensuring its implementation is smooth, and that its benefits flow to all Canadians," the statement said. The reduced barriers help "increase choice for consumers, lower costs for public contracts, and create more jobs for Canadians," it said.
Gerard Comeau was all smiles in April after a
judge dismissed a charge against him of bringing too much alcohol into
New Brunswick from Quebec. A Supreme Court appeal of his case will rule
on interprovincial alcohol trade restrictions. (Bridget Yard)
Four working groups were announced in April to:
- Report back within a year on options for liberalizing alcohol distribution and sales.
- Report back within six months on how financial services might be covered.
- Boost trade in the fish sector.
- Develop options within six to 12 months to develop the food sector in the territories.
Nearly three months on, Melanson's statement this week said the working groups haven't yet been finalized. It's unclear whether the timing laid out in April still applies.
CETA forced open government contracts
Provincial ministers were compelled to drop some barriers while staring down a deadline.
Large provincial and territorial government contracts will soon be open to European bidders under the Comprehensive Economic and Free Trade Agreement that Canada negotiated with the EU.
Under the EU deal, foreigners could have had more access to Canadian government contracts than Canadians from other provinces.
The interprovincial deal fixed this.
Out-of-province bidders can now compete on goods contracts above $25,000. That's a lower threshold than the one set for European companies.
CFTA also opens up contracting for Crown corporations like energy utilities.
The interprovincial deal was timed to kick in the same day the EU deal starts to apply.
But the EU deal's now held up.
While it's not the biggest snag slowing up CETA's implementation, Europeans are concerned that some provinces aren't opening up their procurement on the timetable they were expecting.
Proof of compliance?
Canada's approach seems to be to fix a date for CETA's implementation first, and then change the required regulations. But the EU wants to see the regulatory changes, particularly for Ontario and Quebec, before it agrees to a date.
Potential European bidders watch municipal and provincial infrastructure announcements — such as a recent contract by Metrolinx, the Greater Toronto Area's transit authority — with interest.
Future sole-source contracts could violate the open bidding the EU bargained for.
Quebec has been at the forefront of the push
to implement Canada's trade deal with the European Union.
Large
provincial government contracts will soon be open to European bidders,
and that pushed provinces and territories to open procurement to
out-of-province Canadian bidders too. (Francois Lenoir/Reuters)
Negotiating and ratifying trade deals falls under the jurisdiction of the federal government. But provincial governments were consulted extensively on CETA, because if provinces fail to comply, the government of Canada is on the hook.
"Provinces and territories continue to be important partners," the trade department said in a recent emailed statement. "Government of Canada officials are in close contact with colleagues in all provinces and territories to monitor implementation and have received assurances from them that they are taking the necessary steps for CETA's provisional application."
Free trade between provinces? That would be anarchy: Neil Macdonald
Canadians, after all, can't be allowed to just run around Canada willy-nilly, buying whatever they want
By Neil Macdonald, CBC News
Posted: Jun 24, 2017 5:00 AM ET
Gerard Comeau was ticketed for bringing too much alcohol from one province to another.
(Anne-Marie Provost/Radio-Canada)
Comeau is a Canadian who, looking for the best bargain he could, drove to a Canadian town a few miles from his home in Canada, bought 14 cases of beer and three bottles of liquor from Canadian beer and liquor stores, then returned to his home. In Canada.
A squad of plainclothes Mounties with binoculars, it turned out, had him under surveillance, according to his lawyer. On his way home from the Canadian town to his Canadian home, he was intercepted and handed a ticket for $292.50 by uniformed Canadian officers who then seized all the alcohol he'd purchased.
His Canadian crime: his beer run had crossed one of Canada's internal borders. He'd driven from New Brunswick into Quebec. As far as New Brunswick was concerned, that made him a smuggler.
Sixteen other people were charged that day in the same sting operation, but Comeau had more spine than most and fought the ticket. Some smart lawyers from Ontario and Western Canada got involved, and – my god, I love it when things like this happen – he won.
A New Brunswick judge ruled that the province's law against importing alcohol from other provinces violated the Constitution Act, Sec. 121, which states: All Articles of the Growth, Produce, or Manufacture of any one of the Provinces shall, from and after the Union, be admitted free into each of the other Provinces.
The ruling shocked New Brunswick and most of the other provinces, which consider Sec. 121 to be one of the most horrible and un-Canadian sentences in the Canadian Constitution, something that should be ignored at all costs.
Quebec and Ontario jump in
New Brunswick's attorney general immediately appealed to the province's court of appeal, which, unpatriotically, refused to even consider hearing it. So of course the case is now on its way to the Supreme Court.
Arnold Schwisberg, Comeau's lawyer, told me he was just notified that Quebec and Ontario have now jumped in, siding with New Brunswick. This must not stand, they are saying.
Canadians, after all, can't be allowed to just run around Canada willy-nilly, buying whatever they want or working wherever they choose. That would be anarchy.
It's easy enough to see why the provinces are so agitated about the ruling. As Schwisberg puts it: "This is about entrenched interests. Alcohol sales represent the third biggest source of income for provincial coffers, after taxes and user fees."
The Comeau decision, if it stands, would open up alcohol sales to competition, or at least competition within Canada's system of government monopolies, which don't think they should have to compete with anyone, including each other.
But it isn't just alcohol. It's our whole system. Modern Canada is built on protectionism. And not just our high wall of taxes and tariffs and duties and sneaky little bureaucratic barriers at our international borders, but a whole cadre of other rules impeding trade and labour and commerce between our provinces, and even our municipalities.
Canadians probably don't realize it, and might not even care if they did, but they are told every day what they are allowed to buy, and how much they have to pay, and where they can work and where they can't.
Our interprovincial trade barriers, as they are known, are ridiculous. I asked Daniel Schwanen, an expert on the subject at the C.D. Howe Institute, if there is any economic good in them:
"No. The answer is no."
Our web of protectionism makes it difficult for the federal government to negotiate with other countries. It costs Canadian businesses the chance to participate in the nearly trillion-dollars of U.S. government business created to fight the economic disaster in 2009. Tit for tat and all that.
The province recently produced the new Canadian Free Trade Agreement. (Jonathan Hayward/Canadian Press)
Think about that title. Canadians need an official treaty to trade freely with each other. Except, of course, we don't trade freely at all.
"It's a joke," says Schwisberg, who is relishing his chance at the Supreme Court this December. "Again, follow the money. Eighty per cent of the market is excluded in that agreement."
Needless to say, alcohol is exempted.
Any Canadian who wants to do business in any province must still register separately in that province, hire a representative, pay a fee and submit paperwork. Regulations on, for example, trucking, are not harmonized.
Protectionist unions see to it that workers from one province cannot cross over and work in another. An Ontario doctor's prescription will almost certainly be rejected in a Quebec pharmacy.
And of course government-overseen cartels called marketing boards set prices we pay for dairy, poultry and maple syrup.
Municipalities tell you what taxis you can or cannot summon to your home.
This, we are told, is all for our own good. And police – gun-carrying agents of the state charged with protecting us – are ultimately used as enforcers. See the Comeau case.
Knocking down barriers
Ah, the Comeau case. Schwisberg says it could change everything – knock down all the barriers — and it might. It depends on how willing the high justices are to upend our entrenched statism.
The provinces will point to a 1921 case in which the Canadian high court of the day ruled that Sec. 121 really only means goods can move between provinces "free of duty."
Schwisberg will argue that in fact, the British House of Lords, which passed the British North America Act in 1867, explicitly rejected a draft using the term "of duty," and chose instead the untrammeled word "free."
He's right, and he has expert research to back him up. The trial judge in New Brunswick was persuaded. So, evidently, was the province's court of appeals.
But the real question to be decided by the Supremes is whether free trade is un-Canadian. And that's another matter.
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