Friday 19 May 2023

Did hundreds of complaints trigger the review of LGBTQ policy or just 3?

 

Did hundreds of complaints trigger the review of LGBTQ policy or just 3?

Complaints made public share curriculum concerns, make no mention of education Policy 713

Education Minister Bill Hogan said the review of Policy 713 was triggered by "misinterpretations and concerns," and said the province had received hundreds of complaints about it. He has never clarified how many of those came before the review decision and how many came after the review became public.

The policy was implemented in 2020 and guarantees minimum protections to LGBTQ kids in school, including providing gender-neutral washrooms and respecting their pronouns in the classroom.

Premier Blaine Higgs confirmed this week the main issue with the policy is that it says if a child under 16 wants an informal name or pronoun change, teachers are required to get consent of the child before telling their parents. Parents still have to sign off on any formal changes and the policy does not change that.

A woman wearing a red suit jacket speaks to people holding microphones in the rotunda of the legislature. Liberal Leader Susan Holt asked the Minister of Education Bill Hogan for a list of complaints about 713. He told her to file a right-to-information request. (Aidan Cox/CBC)

Policy 713 triggered little public debate until two weeks ago.

On May 5, a small group of people holding placards protesting its implementation stood outside a school where teachers were holding professional development sessions.

That's when the province confirmed to media that it had been reviewing the policy since mid-April. On Thursday, spokesperson Morgan Bell said the decision to review was "communicated" on April 21, but she did not answer a question about when the decision to review was made.

3? 100? 800?

On Friday, when asked why he wouldn't share the details of the complaints or the complaints themselves, Hogan told Information Morning Fredericton, "It's not my place to release private communication with me."

The closest anyone has come to uncovering the substance of the complaints received by the government is Kelly Lamrock, the province's child and youth advocate.

He asked the province for the correspondence that triggered the review, and officials sent him copies of three emails. All three make unsubstantiated and sometimes homophobic claims. They also address curriculum concerns, which Policy 713 does not dictate, and none of them referred to the specific policy. 

WATCH | CBC's Raechel Huizinga breaks down Policy 713:

CBC Explains: Here’s what you need to know about Policy 713

Duration 2:42
Complaints, protests, debates, reviews: What’s it all about?

One, sent in December of 2022, said LGBTQ material should not be taught because it's against Christian beliefs.

Another email, from October 2022, said kids are being taught "Marxist" and "unscientific nonsense" about gender.

The third one, from April 4, 2023, referred to a long-debunked conspiracy theory about litter boxes in schools. The writer of the April email said, "I am not homophobic," and "humans are created male and female and nothing can change that."

Based on these emails, and other information given to him by the province, Lamrock said he recommended that the province pause the review and called the process "broken and incoherent."

"I am not sure any government decision could survive if receiving three complaints led to reconsideration," he wrote.

Lamrock did not ask for 'samples' of complaints

When Liberal Party Leader Susan Holt stood up in Question Period on Wednesday and asked about the discrepancy between "hundreds" of complaints and just three, Hogan said Lamrock "asked for a couple of samples … up to a certain point in March."

In fact, in his correspondence with the province, which was included in his report released earlier in the week, Lamrock asked for "any correspondence containing the misinterpretations or concerns" the department was citing as the basis for the review.

Lamrock's correspondence makes no mention of the month of March. He asked for documentation of the concerns the province referred to on April 25, when it confirmed to him the review was underway.

Bespectacled man wearing a button-uo shirt opened at the neck and a suit jacket. Kelly Lamrock, New Brunswick’s child and youth advocate, said he asked for any correspondence related to the concerns cited by the province as a basis for the review of Policy 713. He received copies of three emails, and none referred to the policy. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)

When Hogan said Lamrock merely asked for a "sample," he did not say why the province would put those particular emails in the sample since they did not touch on any of the policy sections under review.

When Holt asked for an inventory of the complaints, Hogan said she should file a right-to-information request.

"I have a number of petitions on my desk in my office and in my constituency office. I also have a couple of recordings of some voicemails that have been left on my phone in my constituency office. I have had a whole variety of things," Hogan said.

The CBC has filed a right-to-information request for the complaints. Response to a request takes 30 days and often requires an extension to 60 days and sometimes longer.

Hogan said Wednesday the province will be revealing the results of the review into the policy in two weeks, likely long before any response to the information request comes in. 

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Hadeel Ibrahim is a reporter with CBC New Brunswick based in Saint John. She reports in English and Arabic. Email: hadeel.ibrahim@cbc.ca.

With files from Information Morning Fredericton

 
 
203 Comments 
 
 
 
David Amos  
19 Minutes
Methinks Higgy fired Leger once he realized that Cardy had been playing them both like a fiddle N'esy Pas? 
 
 
 
David Amos  
The plot thickens  
 
 
William Peters  
Reply to David Amos
And it risks distracting us from important issues of governance... 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to William Peters  
Relax and enjoy the circus on the best long weekend of the year  
 
 
Nicholas Hale 
Reply to William Peters   
FYI, Members of the government using governmental power to influence, interfere with, or overturn policy they disagree with, on a personal level, is an important issue of governance as it represents a gross misuse of power in an arena that should not be subject to political interference at all, let alone political interference driven almost exclusively by a personal agenda or religious view.

Politicians don't get to treat the governments they operate in as "their" government. This is not Higgs' government, it's the Government of New Brunswick, and Higgs is only one person among many where his personal views are concerned.

 
Marcel Belanger  
Reply to Nicholas Hale
Very good point.  
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Nicholas Hale 
Methinks you should check my work N'esy Pas? 
 
 
 
 
 
Louis Léger  
When politicians receive "hundreds of concerns" with little to no proof to back it up, it usually means that the information was gathered from the local Tim Hortons.  
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Louis Léger 
Higgy knows a dude who shares your name Trust that they have studied my work and my documents for years  
 
 
David Amos
Reply to David Amos 
Higgs losing chief of staff Louis Léger
Top adviser to premier played 'a diplomatic role' to francophone community, Acadian leader says
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Jan 17, 2023 11:39 AM AST
 

 
 
 
Mark Benson 
What if we didn’t label any kids? Would that help ?  
 
 
Michael Cain
Reply to Mark Benson
Google "Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity (SOGI)" and learn all about it.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Mark Benson  
Yup
 
 
David Amos
  
Reply to Michael Cain
Whereas you know so much why not explain the Butter Tart Fiasco Trust that would really spoil Higgy's long weekend on his old bike 
 
 
 
 
 
John White 
If the review was prompted by three complaints then the tail is wagging the dog.  
 
 
David Amos
  
Reply to John White  
Policy 713 and kids: Fact checking 4 statements made by the premier

Policy doesn't change sex-ed curriculum and makes no mention of drag storytime

Hadeel Ibrahim · CBC News · Posted: May 18, 2023 11:55 AM ADT

"Higgs "can't comment" on whether kitty litter conspiracy theory is true or false."

 
David Amos
  
Reply to John White 
If the wannabe cats use Kitty litter in the schools what to the wannabe dogs use? 
 
 
 
 
 
Jake Newman 
who asked for this policy in the first place? 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Jake Newman 
Dominic Cardy  
 
 
Michael Cain 
Reply to Jake Newman  

 
David Amos
Reply to David Amos
PC caucus rejected review of gender-identity policy once before, former minister says

Many Tory MLAs won’t say if they agree with review or endorse premier’s comments on LGBTQ students

Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: May 17, 2023 4:43 PM ADT

"Cardy said he sent the finished document to Higgs's office "for a final look-over" at the time and never heard back, so he signed it into effect just before the 2020 campaign." 

 
David Amos
Reply to Michael Cain 
This is NB not BC
 
 
Graham McCormack  
Reply to David Amos 
The policy was being worked on long before Cardy came along.
 
 
Graham McCormack  
Reply to Jake Newman  
Most likely the people who went through the system and felt the support was lacking and who were bullied and belittled for who they are. 
 
 
Michael Cain 
Reply to Graham McCormack  
It is a human right issue that most provinces or all have already developed policies. 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Graham McCormack 
Cardy introduced it to NB much to Higgy's chagrin 
 
 
 
 
 
Mark Macpatterson
 


Graham McCormack  
Reply to Mark Macpatterson
So you are questioning the creation of a policy that seeks to include environment in the school 
environment?  
 
 
Mark Macpatterson
 
Reply to Graham McCormack
 
 
Marcel Belanger
Reply to Mark Macpatterson
No probably not hundreds of request but more likely children who take their own life because they feel they have no where to turn to. That does not go both ways, it's not just a simple policy, it's meant to be a life saving policy. 


Nicholas Hale 
Reply to Mark Macpatterson
The former. It is now a standard (type of) policy in place in most public schools, in Canada, to protect LGBTQ+ kids. It is an anti-discrimination policy with no comment or influence on curriculum. 
 
 
Nicholas Hale 
Reply to Mark Macpatterson   
FYI this policy does not influence or concern curriculum and has never been presented at such. It is an anti-discrimination policy.

It appears you are concerned about something you do not appear to be well informed on...informing yourself may ease your concern.

 
Anna Barnes
Reply to Marcel Belanger
There is very weak evidence if any for children's lives being at risk. They are however at risk of being labelled for no good reason and having a barrier between themselves and their families. 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Nicholas Hale   
"It appears you are concerned about something you do not appear to be well informed on...informing yourself may ease your concern. "

Perhaps you should take your own advice


David Amos
Reply to Anna Barnes
I agree 
 
 
Laurie Cooke 
Reply to David Amos
The evidence isn't weak at all. I'm not sure where that idea comes from. There is a huge amount of research available. Being harassed or even injured is a dangerous hardship for a young person. And who is doing the labelling? It's usually the kids who know they are different from a young age. In know some very conservative parents whose child, born a son, who acted differently (like a girl in every way), and told them something wasn't right for years and years. They thought it would pass but it never did and they've had to adjust. We just didn't have the words for it in the past, and a lot of kids in other eras simply regarded themselves as gay, and/or kept it hidden altogether with deep unhappiness. Acceptance is everything to children. 
 
 
Darwin Morton 
Reply to Anna Barnes
Anna, I am so sorry you could NOT be more wrong!

There is very STRONG evidence in the medical literature to show categorically that a non affirming environment for LGBTQ2S+ is directly linked to increases in both self harm and suicide!! It is massive!!!

As for barriers between families... well, let me tell you about the day my parents kicked me unconscious at home for being 'gay' (they did not use such a nice term)...

I am sorry for being blunt but children are still suffering in that way in North America, even in 2023.

 
David Amos
  
Reply to Laurie Cooke
Play with words all you wish I believe in Free Speech 
 
However as a Proud Canadian Father/Grandfather I strongly disagree with anyone who supports turning my native land into the most profound Nanny State on the planet. Why else who I run for public office 7 times and sue the Crown as well? 
 
 
 
 
  
Jake Newman

why are some folks scared of a review? 


Graham McCormack 

Reply to Jake Newman   
Haven't heard or read one comment where anyone said they were scared of a review. This all started because off a few protesters who decided to stir the pot and completely misrepresent what this policy is. It then continued when the government refused to stand behind their teachers and then suddenly announced that there was an on-going review of the policy while at the same time Higgs and Hogan made statements that fed the narrative further confusing people over Policy 713 and sex ed curriculum.

Throw in the comments from Higgs about drag story time and it's no wonder people are upset that something is being reviewed that was working just fine.

 
Douglas James 
Reply to Jake Newman
I suspect its because a review means you go into it with an open mind whereas Higgs has a closed mind and already has stated what changes he wants. 
 
 
Nicholas Hale 
Reply to Jake Newman   
You've missed the point, or are framing it as harmless as a means to disarm or dismiss the point, or the people potentially affected. No one is "scared" of a review and that is a mildly condescending way to frame the issue.

The review (if it is even taking place) is not the actual issue.

The issue, which would be concerning for *any* policy that was legally enacted and adopted by government, is that a review is potentially being conducted after only 2 years of implementation AND based on exactly zero formal complaints concerning the policy...despite the Education Minister claiming to have hundreds.

There is clear shenanigans at play and the Minister has either lied about the number and nature of complaints they have received or intentionally did not turn those over to Mr. Lamrock...and, if they existed, it would have been in the Minister's interest to produce them, not obscure them. Obscuring them only makes the allegations against Higgs and himself seem more substantial. Producing actual complaints, in the number suggested, complaining of the policy specifically would *absolutely* validate a review if the issue were so contentious.

It is not a contentious issue, for most. It is a clear smoke screen by government, having been found out. Hogan is the definition of "lackey" in this government, in his position, under Higgs. He was given the education desk to do as he was told, period, after Cardy (a much more capable and public serving politician) resigned. He seems all too happy to oblige. 
 
 
Marcel Belanger 
Reply to Jake Newman  
Not scared of the review, more concerned about who is doing the review and why. There's a difference. 


Jake Newman
Reply to Jake Newman  
it is a contentious issue for many, others it is not. Completing a review should hopefully clear up any misinformation/disinformation  
 
 
Nicholas Hale 
Reply to Jake Newman 
If there is misinformation at play it is being generated by those who felt the need to try and prompt some kind of review over an anti-discrimination policy that protects kids and has only been in place for roughly 2 years. It defies logic, or any kind of common sense, that such a policy (which does not affect curriculum in any way) would need a review at all, let alone 2 years after adoption.

The people who are "upset" by this policy are those generating misinformation, and will not be satisfied by a review: They will be satisfied by having their personal views catered to.

  
Jake Newman 
Reply to Nicholas Hale  
would personal views not already be catered to by having this policy?  
 
 
Nicholas Hale 
Reply to Jake Newman 
Only if someone believed that protecting kids from discrimination in schools is a "personal view".  
 
 
David Amos

Reply to Jake Newman
A Nanny State relies and thrives on folks being scared 


David Amos
 
Reply to Nicholas Hale 
Oh My


Graham McCormack 
Reply to Jake Newman
Reading the policy would clear up any misinformation.
 
 
Darwin Morton 
Reply to Jake Newman  
It's not going to be a 'review' it's going to be a homophobic hatchet job thinly disguised (VERY THINLY) as a response to concerned parents.  
 
 
David Amos

Reply to Darwin Morton  
Oh Dear you should have quit before you embarrassed yourself with the obvious prejudice against folks who don't agree with you 
 
 



Chuck Gendron 
Excluding parents is a bad move no mater how many people think it is good. 
 
 
Rosco holt
Reply to Chuck Gendron
By what was reported parents were the among the ones who made the policy.  
 
 
Darwin Morton
Reply to Chuck Gendron   
o all those people who might feel scared and concerned by a policy that creates safe spaces for LGBTQ2S+ youth in schools;

I was 8 when I realized I was 'different' (60 now). I had no one to talk to and knew I had to hide what I was. I never told my parents but as I got older they guessed things were 'not right'. I was sent to priests, psychologists, 'experts' to 'fix' me. When that didn't work my family resorted to violence. Eventually, they just 'divorced' me... an unwanted, unvalued person who was NOT family.. over something I could not change.

It took me decades to forgive them and myself and live life as the person I was born to be.

So, if you are afraid of policy or law that protects kids like I was. If you find the idea of allowing LGBTQ2S+ kids the space to breathe. Then (just for a moment), remember the kid I was.. scared, beaten, told he was worthless... Imagine how he felt.. for years.

Now, please. Look at your fear with compassion. No law or policy is perfect, but a place to be safe (even from parents), is not the end of the world and could change the world in a positive way that you may have never needed.

 
Inger Nielsen 
Reply to Darwin Morton
I am glad that you are you and greatful you are still with us even after all that  
 
 
Vivian Myers-Jones 
Reply to Darwin Morton
You're amazing.

And, I'm with you. I had to hide for 40 years, and it was a living Hell.

 
Winston Gray 
Reply to Chuck Gendron  
Parents were already consulted. 
 
 
Darwin Morton
Reply to Chuck Gendron   
This review is often explained by politicians as responding to concerns for the safety of children. Unfortunately, they are forgetting about the safety of ALL children. I am/was not on my own... many children (even now), live in places that are non-affirming or accepting.

Those children NEED this provision (more than most politicians or straight people will ever know in their own lives). I have had so many people in my life that have not survived the emotional, physical or psychological 'shrapnel' of growing up like that. I was almost one of them a long time ago. Another contributor related their own experience '...A living Hell' Let's save kids from that... please..

I DO understand the fear and concerns... but I also remember the pain, suffering and isolation I felt as a young person. The opportunity to be able to be safe and talk about my feelings would have made all the difference in the world. I know that many parents are fantastic, but (sadly) not all parents or parental figures are. If you are one of those people who think that homo/trans/bi/phobia doesn't exist any more or isn't really a problem... please understand; it is. I wish it wasn't... but it STILL is.

So I agree with the fears for kids safety... let's keep these safeguards, lets choose to keep ALL kids safe.

 
Austin Tagious 
Reply to Darwin Morton 
the problem is, give them an inch they want to take a mile ...  
 
 
Darwin Morton
Reply to Austin Tagious  
'They'?

The policy does not take anything away from anyone. It provides reasonable protections for the 'someones'.

Austin, there is no 'they' here. Just kids who happen to be who they are. They are like all the other kids. Hopes, dreams, laughter, tears, and the right in law to be safe.

 
Ron Rollins 
Reply to Chuck Gendron  
Spring session will be over soon, and most folks will move on with other thoughts and interests. See you all in the fall.  
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Ron Rollins
This circus is far from over




 
 

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