Lots of folks must see this for what it is by now
"Ministers who can't publicly support a government policy or decision would normally be expected to resign, Wright said.
"But Higgs will be feeling the heat," he added. "Politically, it's never good to lose or fire a cabinet minister. And he certainly doesn't want to precipitate a caucus revolt."
Former education minister Dominic Cardy, who quit last fall over proposed changes to French immersion, says there are plenty of reasons why ministers are reluctant to resign.
"You lose a very large chunk of your salary, you lose access to a government car, different benefits," he said.
"But in the end, what's the point of this job? The point of being an elected official is to serve the people of the province."
A wave of departures could either force Higgs back to the more moderate style he adopted early in his term or push him out, Cardy said."
Minister may bar use of preferred names, pronouns in school unless parents consent
But Bill Hogan tells parent reps he has no plans to forcibly out children to possibly unaccepting parents
Bill Hogan said what he's actually considering is preventing teachers from using the child's preferred name and pronoun until a parent consents.
Hogan made the distinction at a meeting this week with parent school support committee chairs from all anglophone school districts, according to two committee chairs.
The meeting is part of a review he's undertaking of Policy 713, which outlines basic protections for LGBTQ students. The minister has said the review won't roll back any rights.
There are a lot of issues in washrooms, but gender isn't one of them.
- Carrie Tanasichuk, parent
Carrie Tanasichuk, committee chair at Saint Rose, an elementary school in Saint John, said the reaction to this proposal was mainly confusion, because it wasn't clear how that could be achieved.
"This is the first time anybody had ever heard that," she said. "There was definitely some followup questions and like, 'Well, what exactly does that mean?' And, like, 'What harms are caused by not using preferred pronouns?'"
Tanasichuk said she didn't hear any clear answers to those questions.
One or two people expressed agreement that they should be able to find out if their children go by a different name, she said, with one saying it's inevitable in small towns.
Results of the review are expected within the next six days.
The department has said Hogan won't be commenting until the review is done.
What does the policy actually say right now?
One of the sections under review says teachers must respect the chosen names and pronouns of students and use them in the classroom.
For children under 16, a principal must get parental consent before changing the child's name on report cards and other official documents. The section says before getting that consent, the principal must make sure the child knows the parents will be involved and agrees to it.
If the child declines to include the parents, the policy says, staff would create a plan to continue to use the child's chosen name and pronoun informally, and the name on report cards would remain as it had been.
Hogan and Premier Blaine Higgs have said this part of the policy amounts to "keeping secrets" from parents, and it takes away parents' right to know what name their child is going by.
The minister decided to start the review on April 21. He didn't publicly say exactly what sections would be reviewed until two weeks ago. This week, he's been meeting with parent groups and students as part of the process.
The New Brunswick Teachers' Association previously said they have not been consulted on the review. The association confirmed Thursday that this is still the case.
The other two sections under review affirm students' rights to participate in extracurricular activities, including sports, and use the washrooms that align with their gender identity.
Connie
Keating of the New Brunswick Teachers' Association says her
organization is still waiting to be consulted on the Policy 713 review. (CBC)
Advocates have said some children would be shunned or abused at home if the parents find out they're exploring their gender identity. Up to 40 per cent of the homeless youth population identify as LGBTQ in North America, according to the Centre of Addiction and Mental Health.
Gail Costello of Pride in Education said even if parents are understanding, the child should have control of when to tell them, because it's a personal journey and every child is different.
Tanasichuk said the majority of people who spoke up at the meeting said it's important to accept students' choices of names and pronouns. She said people also agreed that students should be consulted and their choices respected if they don't feel safe disclosing their gender expression to their parents.
"My question was more, 'Who thought this up?' Like, maybe we should be asking people that have subject-matter expertise and lived experience to come up with policy," she said.
Discourse on washrooms
Hogan previously told CBC News the washroom section is being reviewed to ensure the "comfort" of non-trans girls sharing the washroom with "a biological male."
The right of people to use the washroom of their choice, regardless of anatomy, has been protected by the federal and provincial Human Rights Acts since 2017.
Colin Curry, committee chair at Liverpool Street Elementary School in Fredericton, said people at the meeting shared concerns about washrooms, especially in higher grades, because of vandalism and drugs. He said parents asked for more resources to make washrooms more private and to have more single-stall universal facilities.
Tanasichuk said no one expressed concern for their kids' safety because of trans kids.
"There's a lot of issues in washrooms but gender isn't one of them," she said. "There's smoking, there's vandalism, there's violence."
Curry said there was some discussion about Muslim girls' inability to adjust their hijabs in the washroom if the sex of the people in the room is not known.
He said some people suggested that more private washrooms would solve this problem without limiting anyone's ability to choose a gendered washroom if they wish to.
Costello, who taught for 30 years before retiring, said teachers wouldn't be comfortable enforcing any gender-specific washroom rules.
"Teachers don't want to be the gender police," Costello said.
Clarifications
- An earlier version of this story said trans youth make up 40 per cent of the homeless population in North America. In fact, Up to 40 per cent of the homeless youth population identify as LGBTQ in North America.Jun 02, 2023 1:32 PM AT
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
I see it as a "no-win" situation for the teachers, one way or the other.
If teachers call a student by a preferred name and/or gender that the parents don't know about, they aren't only lying to the parents but they greatly increase the chance of accidentally 'outing' the child.
If teachers do not call the student by a preferred name and/or gender without parental consent, they are just perpetuating the problems that the kids are already experiencing at home.
At the end of the day, if the children don't feel comfortable being honest with their parents, the teachers are ALWAYS going to end up being in an unwinnable situation for one student or another.
As for your salary comment, you contribute pennies at best.
If I asked my teacher to call me Mike, my teacher shouldn't have to ask my parents for permission.
As for pronouns, if you're proposing they go by biology, are you talking about at the level of external organs, internal organs, hormones, or DNA? What do you propose when it turns out these contradict one another or are ambiguous, which you might not even have known about as a parent?
I wonder if it's better if they don't do all that. Maybe they should just call kids by what they want to be called, and use your tax dollars for actual teaching.
Me? I don’t recall ever making that decision as I never experienced gender dysphoria.
But you seem to have an authoritative “should” definitive view… I would welcome your facts and experience.
This is an underhanded piece of legislation that speaks to transphobic frustration with pronouns and extending equality.
The Minister is saying that kids can be addressed by their preferred name/pronoun IF they have parents permission.
But he also, won’t “out” them. As he seemingly acknowledges that some will be kicked out of their homes and are 3x more likely to commit suicide.
So…. if they wish to be addressed by their preferred name/pronoun AND do not have parent permission….. oh well.
At least the other adults won’t have to accommodate them.
Prove any of that wrong. If you can’t… you know what it is.
You also don’t concede how it’s possible for people to understand who they are before what you consider to be an “adult” or “developed”
Neurology considers, give or take, the brain to become basically developed at 25 years old.
Human beings know who they are far, far before that.
People don’t have to live a lie before that. Under any circumstance
As a case in point, the “loyal” opposition leader won’t say if he’ll attend a Pride event.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poilievre-pride-month-parades-1.6864017
Even though, his dad is gay.
How messed up is that? That supporting his dad may hurt his political chances with his base?
Equally messed up… he cares more about that.
Welll said take
I don't know why either the federal or the provincial thinks there's any danger of alienating enough of their core for it to matter at the ballot box, but they apparently do.
That aside, his dad is gay. He can’t commit to being in a Pride parade as his voters might hold it against him.
That should tell you everything you need to know about the pushback to this NB proposal.
Minister was angry and rude at meeting about LGBTQ-policy review, student says
Grade 11 student invited to consultation meeting says education minister interrupted and argued with him
A high school student says a meeting with New Brunswick Education Minister Bill Hogan to discuss Policy 713 left him feeling unheard and disrespected.
Logan Martin met with Hogan to discuss the minister's review of a school policy outlining basic protections for LGBTQ students.
"It was like talking to a wall at times," said the Grade 11 student at Saint John High School. "Like he knew what he wanted, and that's what he would be getting."
Two sections of the policy that are under review affirm students' rights to choose extracurricular sports and use washrooms that align with their gender identity.
A third says a child under 16 must consent before a principal can contact parents to get their permission to make a name change official on school records.
New
Brunswick Education Minister Bill Hogan is not commenting on the review
of LGBTQ-protection policy until the results come out early this month. (Radio-Canada)
Hogan began reviewing the policy on April 21, suspending funding to training sessions and preventing department staff from giving presentations about it.
On May 5, a group of protesters appeared outside a New Brunswick Teachers' Association career day event, holding signs calling educators "perverts" and sharing debunked conspiracy theories about children using litter boxes in schools. That's when the province confirmed it is reviewing the policy because of "misinterpretations and concerns."
The New Brunswick Women's Council and the province's child and youth advocate have criticized the review process. They called for a suspension until the province can establish a reason for it and set up an official process to consult the people affected.
The minister has so far not done that, and is not required to do that by any rules.
Martin, who identifies as gay, said his message to the minister was that a review is not needed because the policy was developed based on sound data. It also helped him feel safer and more accepted at school, he said.
The minister was 30 minutes late for their meeting in Fredericton on Tuesday, then "argued" with him, Martin said.
"He didn't want to listen to anything anyone was saying, He just had almost like an angry face on, like he would just would rather be anywhere else."
Martin was supposed to have his principal with him, but she got a flat tire, so only he and a friend were at the meeting with the minister in Fredericton.
Policy made school safer after assault
Martin said he was assaulted outside school when he came out in 2019. The next year, Policy 713 came into effect and he saw a real change.
He said staff and teachers were more strict about bullying, especially bullying directed at LGBTQ students. He was initially afraid to go back to school after the assault, but the change in attitude helped him feel safer.
"I expected him to sit there and listen to, you know, the experiences we went through and our statistics," Martin said of the minister. "I didn't expect him to interrupt and yell over top of me.
"He was just very rude."
The Department of Education has previously said Hogan would not be commenting on the review or the consultations underway until the results are shared in the first week of June.
Gender expression leads to 'lifestyle'
Martin said the minister kept using the term "lifestyle" when speaking about gay and trans students. He said he explained to the minister this is an inappropriate term because it suggests it's optional to be queer or trans, when no person, including a straight person, chooses their orientation.
"He said that gender expression and identity leads to a 'lifestyle,'" Martin said.
"Whenever I questioned him … He was like, 'well, I have a wife. I'm straight and have a wife, and kids, and grandkids and ride motorcycles, and that's my lifestyle.'"
Martin said the minister did not explain what lifestyle gender expression would lead to and why it would cause him concern.
Martin said after his meeting with Hogan, he joined another meeting with the minister and about six students from different school districts.
Five
of the main organizers of a school walkout in Saint John, were, from
left, Nason Murphy from Harbour View High, Isla Hayward from St.
Malachy's Memorial High, Adelle Read from Harbour View, Logan Martin
from Saint John High, and Kaylee Johnson from Saint John High. (Mia Urquhart/CBC)
He said the students all echoed what Martin about there being no need for a review of the policy.
He said the consensus was that teachers and staff should be better trained to follow the policy, and all washroom facilities should be more private and safe, regardless of who uses them.
Consultation with parents reveals same consensus
The minister has been meeting with different groups as part of the review that started in April. When asked, the Department of Education did not provide a list of who the minister is meeting with this week.
On Monday, he met with chairs of Parent School Support Committees, according to two chairs from different schools.
Colin Curry, the chair of the committee for Liverpool Street Elementary School in Fredericton, said the main consensus was there is no need for a change to the policy.
Curry said the tone of that meeting was respectful, and he's not sure where the minister will land in the end.
"I don't necessarily think the minister brushed off people's concerns with the review," Curry said. "But at the same time, it's hard to feel confident until we actually see proposed wording.
"I think everyone felt at that meeting that the whole review process has been kind of behind closed doors."
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Premier 'disappointed' with mother's comments on LGBTQ review but doesn't contradict them
Higgs says Nicole Paquet’s account of her meeting with education minister was ‘political’
New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs says he's disappointed with a Saint John mother's comments about her dealings with Education Minister Bill Hogan on a review of a school policy on LGBTQ students.
Nicole Paquet told CBC News last week that Hogan asked her for help reworking a section on whether parents should be told about their children expressing their sexual orientation or gender identity at school.
Paquet said Hogan wanted to make it mandatory for teachers to tell parents, but she wanted the policy to stay the same.
Policy 713 says a child must consent before a teacher can tell their parents about their choice of names and pronouns in the classroom.
Nicole
Paquet told CBC News last week that Hogan asked her for help reworking a
section on whether parents should be told about their children
expressing their sexual orientation or gender identity at school. (Hadeel Ibrahim/CBC)
She said she was "gobsmacked" Hogan wanted her to help change a policy she felt should remain as is.
"I certainly was disappointed," Higgs said Wednesday when asked about Paquet's account, though he did not directly contradict her account.
Paquet gave a presentation to the Progressive Conservative caucus last week "and then offered to help map out a path forward," the premier said.
He repeated that the review covers three sections of Policy 713 and "we're not repealing the policy" as a whole but looking for clarifications to avoid "inconsistencies" in how it is applied.
Paquet told CBC News that her presentation to PC MLAs included an account of a teacher — contrary to the policy — contacting her to tell her that her son, a middle school student, was using a different name as he explored his gender identity.
She said her son's trust in teachers was broken, and he was robbed of the opportunity to communicate the information at his own pace.
Higgs responded to Paquet's account during a news conference on Charlotte County forest fires, despite having said last week he would not comment on the Policy 713 review again until it was finished.
"I think it was a disappointing comment and more of a political one, it seems," he said of Paquet's account.
Besides the parent notification change for children under 16, the other elements under review allow a student to play on sports teams and use washrooms that align with their gender identity.
The premier wouldn't say if there's been a decision on parent notification, explaining that he had not seen "the final outcome" because Hogan was holding consultations.
Paquet said she was 'gobsmacked' Education Minister Bill Hogan wanted her to help change a policy she felt should remain as is. (Radio-Canada)
"He will present that to our team here over the coming days or weeks — probably not weeks — then we'll kind of know where it lands. Right now it's still very much in the minister's hands to complete his evaluation."
Five cabinet ministers and two backbench Tory MLAs have expressed concerns about the policy review.
Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Jeff Carr made the most pointed comments, saying governments should be there "to strengthen policies and not take away the rights of marginalized individuals."
Higgs did not respond directly Wednesday when asked what role the PC caucus will have in approving any changes.
"I think you've heard it from many of my colleagues, and I would echo those. They have the utmost confidence in the minister of education. He certainly does not consider children to be wards of the state.
"He believes that parents play a role in a child's upbringing, and we have confidence that he will present something to us at the end of the day that will work for everyone."
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News Release
Premier's statement on review of Policy 713
27 May 2023FREDERICTON (GNB) – The following statement was issued today by Premier Blaine Higgs regarding the review of Policy 713:
Over the last few weeks, Policy 713, Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity, has gotten a lot of attention.
Unfortunately, a lot of inaccurate information is circulating about Policy 713 what this review means.
I want to be clear with all New Brunswickers that we are not, and have never considered, removing this policy. We are reviewing three sections of the policy that are causing confusion and misunderstanding.
The first section pertains to children under 16 changing their name without parents’ knowledge or consent. As this policy stands now, elementary school children can choose a different name. The school has an obligation to develop a plan for the student to use that name, and if the child doesn’t want their parents to know, the name is used without the parent’s knowledge. The school must hide the fact that the child is using a different name or pronoun at school – to the point of taking down artwork with the student’s chosen name on parent-teacher night. Given that parents must give consent to go on a school field trip or to have their picture taken, I can understand why parents are confused by this section of 713.
Protecting human rights is non-negotiable for our government, and we respect and embrace the differences we see in students.
We must find a way to do this while still respecting the role parents play. Students are children. And while we support them in their growth and development, we also need to include parents in their children’s education. We need to give parents and families more credit and support them while they support their children through these changes.
The second section we are examining pertains to sports and in particular transgender participation in sports and the impact on girl’s teams and scholarship programs.
And finally we are reviewing the section of the policy that allows access to washroom facilities on the basis of gender identity.
I have children, and grandchildren, of my own. I firmly believe we must find a balance between providing children with a safe space where they can learn, and express themselves and grow, while still ensuring that parents are kept informed and are comfortable with the education their child is receiving.
Policy 713 is important.
It’s important to our vulnerable students, so they can go to school each day knowing that they can be themselves.
It’s important to the educators and staff who provide them with a safe and non-judgmental environment each day. That will not change. A student will always have the ability to speak confidentially to a teacher and get the help they need from a supportive professional while they work through big issues such as coming out as gay, lesbian or transgendered.
And if a child is at risk of being abused at home because of their sexual identity, trained professionals will do an assessment and reach out to child protection services for help. There is an obligation to do that in any case where a child’s safety is in question.
Policy 713 will stay, and if anything it will be strengthened because it will have better support from parents who will have greater clarity around sections that are vague and causing confusion.
As we move forward with our consultations and subsequent policy improvements, I am calling for calm. We must treat each other with respect while we have these discussions.
Name calling, and intimidation with the intent of shutting down conversation on either side is wrong. These conversations are important for our children and their parents, and they are not limited to New Brunswick. These topics are being discussed nationally and internationally. We must get this right in our province, and we can’t do that if we aren’t able to talk to one another about it.
I encourage you to tell your elected representative how you feel. Personal information in any correspondence is confidential. We want to hear from you.
I firmly believe that family has always been the backbone of our society and to ensure that continues we can not undermine the importance of the role parents play in their children’s lives.
In this great province of ours, I believe we can have a rational discussion to support both kids and parents – and I invite you to join me in that conversation.
Higgs faces growing dissent from cabinet on LGBTQ policy review
Minister Jeff Carr says government should strengthen policies, not take away rights
Premier Blaine Higgs is facing a growing wave of dissent from several of his cabinet ministers over the review of the province's policy on LGBTQ students at school.
Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Jeff Carr is the latest Progressive Conservative to question the rethink of Policy 713, which sets minimum standards for creating safe, inclusive spaces in the education system.
"There are ways to strengthen policies and that's what governments should be here for, to strengthen policies and not take away the rights of marginalized individuals, to not have them live in fear," said Carr, who was sometimes emotional about the issue during a scrum with reporters on Thursday.
Local Government Minister Daniel Allain also weighed in, saying it was "important to keep the policy, not only to keep it, but to strengthen it."
Among the provisions under review is a section that allows students under the age of 16 to adopt new names and pronouns at school without their parents being told.
Social
Development Minister Dorothy Shephard said 'Policy 713 creates an
opportunity for educators to have safe space, to have respectful and
welcoming educational environments.' (Michel Corriveau/Radio-Canada)
Higgs has made clear he doesn't like that provision.
Carr avoided criticizing the premier but said all MLAs have "a duty in the community to understand how we as legislators form policy that affect people in our communities."
That includes "students in our schools who oftentimes have nobody to confide in. And it took me a while to understand why they wouldn't go to their families or their parents first," he said.
"So they confide in a teacher, they confide in a guidance counsellor who doesn't judge them right out of the gate."
Other elements of the policy under review allow a student to play on sports teams and use washrooms that align with their gender identity.
Carr said if New Brunswick wants to present itself as "inclusive and welcoming, then we need to walk that walk and talk that talk."
Jill
Green, minister responsible for housing in New Brunswick, told
Brunswick News this week that she was 'advocating to continue to protect
[children] and I will continue to do that.' (Radio-Canada)
His comments follow a social media post Wednesday from Social Development Minister Dorothy Shephard that pointed out the new Child and Youth Wellbeing Act she brought to the legislature.
It lays out the rights of children receiving social services to take part in decision-making that affects them and guarantees them privacy.
Shephard said those principles should be part of the conversation around the LGBTQ policy.
"Policy 713 creates an opportunity for educators to have safe space, to have respectful and welcoming educational environments. We should want that in our public school system and that's what it does," she told CBC News.
Another cabinet member, Environment Minister Gary Crossman, clicked "like" on Shephard's post on Wednesday but could not be reached for comment Thursday.
And Housing Minister Jill Green said this week that there may be a need for clarity on some sections of the policy but overall the document should be left as is or strengthened.
"I would vote for strengthening it if there was a way of strengthening it," she said. "Kids are our future. … There's always ways to improve things, so I would hope we would improve it."
Last
week Aboriginal Affairs Minister Arlene Dunn said there had been a lack
of consultation with LGBTQ groups on the review up until that point. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
Last week, Aboriginal Affairs Minister Arlene Dunn said there had been a lack of consultation with LGBTQ groups on the review up until that point.
University of New Brunswick political scientist Donald Wright said the level of dissent from ministers is unusual because the British cabinet form of government treats the cabinet as a single voice.
"It is a case of the government disagreeing with the government," he said.
Policy 713 is a departmental policy document — not legislation and not a cabinet order.
That means MLAs and ministers won't have a vote on any changes.
Carr said it would be hypothetical to discuss what he and other ministers would do if Higgs insisted on making changes to the policy that they don't agree with.
"Inside of that room, we have those open and honest discussions on how policies should be rolled out. Sometimes we don't always win, but we have those discussions," he said.
Shephard also said she would press the case internally.
"My power is always around the caucus table and always around the cabinet table. I don't think anyone can say I'm shy about voicing my thoughts and opinions and my research, so that's what I'll do."
Ministers who can't publicly support a government policy or decision would normally be expected to resign, Wright said.
"But Higgs will be feeling the heat," he added. "Politically, it's never good to lose or fire a cabinet minister. And he certainly doesn't want to precipitate a caucus revolt."
Former education minister Dominic Cardy, who quit last fall over proposed changes to French immersion, says there are plenty of reasons why ministers are reluctant to resign.
"You lose a very large chunk of your salary, you lose access to a government car, different benefits," he said.
"But in the end, what's the point of this job? The point of being an elected official is to serve the people of the province."
A wave of departures could either force Higgs back to the more moderate style he adopted early in his term or push him out, Cardy said.
University
of New Brunswick political scientist Donald Wright said the level of
dissent from ministers is unusual because the British cabinet form of
government treats the cabinet as a single voice. (Donald Wright)
"The more people who leave, the clearer the message is," he said.
"If he loses more ministers at this point, it's pretty clear that his time isn't just coming to an end. It's done."
Carr said the outcome of the review is still up in the air.
He said it began as the fielding of some questions and requests for clarifications, "and now it's turned much more than it should be."
But the debate may be an opportunity for politicians to better understand marginalized communities, he said.
"I feel there is a path forward here. I feel that if it was a done deal, it would have been done by now," he said.
Premier
Blaine Higgs has faced cabinet and caucus dissent before, saying during
those episodes that his PC MLAS are 'a diverse group' and no premier
has ever had the full backing of their team on every issue. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
Higgs has faced cabinet and caucus dissent before, saying during those episodes that his PC MLAS are "a diverse group" and no premier has ever had the full backing of their team on every issue.
"I know that they're passionate. I know that they're pushing to do what they believe is right," he said in December 2019.
"At the end of the day we have to balance that with the greater good and the greater consensus, and that's my job."
Higgs released a statement Thursday saying the policy had been discussed with caucus and until Education Minister Bill Hogan has finished the review, "we will not comment any further."
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No consultation with teachers so far on Policy 713 review, says NBTA
Teachers' association goal of the review should be to strengthen the policy for LGBTQ students in schools
The review of the school policy that guarantees basic protection for LGBTQ students has recently been expanded to include a section on washroom access, an issue also addressed in human rights law.
Speaking outside of the association's annual general meeting in Fredericton, Connie Keating said she has not received any information about how the review will occur and "who will be called to the table."
There is "lots of speculation" out there on why the review is happening, she said, but "we are looking for facts."
And Keating said the association had not heard of any teachers having issues with Policy 713.
"What teachers do have a concern with is that there's a review going on and they worry about the review process not being transparent."
Teacher shortage priority
Keating said she never imagined a review of a policy that has only been in place for three years would be the most pressing topic for government.
There are several other issues that are directly affecting students' education, she said, including a teacher shortage that she describes as a "crisis."
Lack of resources for students and providing teachers with competitive wages to compete with other provinces are also issues that should be top of mind for government.
"Government has, first off, not recognized that we have a teacher shortage," said Keating. "And, second of all, certainly have not come forward with what we've asked for — a strategic plan on how to well-resource our schools."
Keating said her association is still wondering "Why now? Why this review? What has led to this?"
The goal of the review should be to strengthen the policy, she said, "so that the protection of all students is the ultimate goal."
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Mother says education minister asked her to help rewrite LGBTQ policy she supports
Nicole Paquet says nothing about Policy 713 should be changed and it needs to be implemented universally
Hadeel Ibrahim · CBC News · Posted: May 26, 2023 5:18 PM ADT
Reply to Mark Benson
What do you have against transparency?
The policy is nearly universally supported across admin and teachers and politicians. There hasn’t been any incidents whatsoever. What is there to review?
They should know somethings about it, don't you think.
While government know nothing or understand. They believe what one person(or 3) said.
Mother says education minister asked her to help rewrite LGBTQ policy she supports
Nicole Paquet says nothing about Policy 713 should be changed and it needs to be implemented universally
A Saint John mother is speaking out after she says the minister of education asked her to help rewrite a section of an LGBTQ-protection policy she fully supports.
On Tuesday, Nicole Paquet spoke to the Progressive Conservative caucus about how that policy, if it had been implemented correctly, would have prevented harm to her son who was outed by a teacher, resulting in the family needing to move to a new community so her son could change schools.
Her presentation was related to the review of Policy 713. One section says if a child under 16 asks to go by a different name or pronoun informally in school, teachers have to get the consent of the child before sharing that information with parents.
Paquet told caucus that a teacher, who did not follow this part of the policy, called her and disclosed that her son, a middle school student, was using a different name as he explored his gender identity. She said her son's trust in teachers was broken, and he was robbed of the opportunity to communicate this information at his own pace.
The day after her presentation, she said Education Minister Bill Hogan called her and asked for her help in "crafting some wording," for that section.
"I was absolutely gobsmacked with the fact that this person thought that he could use his power, in this way, to ask me to change a policy that I clearly agree with," she said.
Education Minister Bill Hogan says the policy review is not meant to the threaten rights of LGBTQ children. (Radio-Canada)
Paquet said even if she wanted to help change the wording, Hogan wanted to go in the opposite direction, making it mandatory to tell parents about an informal name or pronoun change.
But she said the impact of the actions of that teacher had a negative impact on her son.
"Through that year, he had changed significantly. He wasn't engaged anymore. He wasn't stepping into joy."
The policy should remain unchanged, she said, and teachers should be better informed and trained in it.
She said she works with corporations and workplaces to make sure their policies are implemented correctly. In her presentation, she offered her expertise to help implement the policy universally across all schools.
Paquet said this is not how a policy review should happen, and consultation is not being done in good faith.
"If you're going through this process at all, it has to be transparent, it has to be inclusive, you need to give it the time," she said.
"There's a really bad impact that's going to come down the pipe if you continue to close out the people who have something to say."
In response to a request for interview with Hogan, a spokesperson said until the policy review work is done, he "will not be commenting any further on Policy 713."
Women's Council recommends review be discontinued
Beth Lyons of the New Brunswick Women's Council said no one should be put in Paquet's position, especially since there's no guarantee that any input she gave would be followed.
"She is just a citizen who happens to have some lived experience," Lyons said. "Even if she had accepted the offer from the minister of education, she would be walking into that situation with an unbelievable power imbalance."
The Women's Council, along with the New Brunswick child and youth advocate and the Human Rights Commission have all expressed concerns about this policy review, with some asking for a pause.
Beth
Lyons, executive director of the New Brunswick Women's Council, says
the government is 'disregarding' expert advice provided by her
organization and several others. (CBC)
Lyons said Policy 713 was created after years of consultation with experts and people affected. She said government is being provided with expert advice by organizations such as hers and "it is disregarding it."
She said there is no evidence that a change is warranted, and the council is recommending the province stop this review or provide the data and evidence that a review is needed.
Since the review became public knowledge two weeks ago, thousands of students have walked out of class in protest. Advocates have said the policy is boilerplate and basic, and any change would likely harm LGBTQ children.
Premier Higgs and Hogan have said the review is not meant to roll back LGBTQ rights.
Paquet said when she made the presentation to caucus, she felt that almost all MLAs agreed with her. Seven Progressive Conservatives, including cabinet ministers, have spoken out in support of Policy 713.
The Department of Education said the result of the review is expected by the first week of June.
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Gender-neutral washrooms under microscope as N.B. expands school policy review
LGBTQ-protection policy says schools should have at least 1 universal washroom
The controversial review of a New Brunswick school policy that guarantees basic protection for LGBTQ students has recently been expanded to include a section on washroom access, an issue also addressed in human rights law.
Education Minister Bill Hogan says the review of Policy 713 will consider issues such as how to have gender-neutral washrooms in schools with infrastructure challenges and whether the policy affects the rights of students who aren't transgender.
"We want to talk about the rights of female students and whether or not they're comfortable going into a washroom with a biological male," Hogan told Information Morning Fredericton.
Hogan's plan to explore these questions comes about six years after the federal and provincial human rights acts made it a violation to stop a person from using a gendered washroom, or to limit access to one because of a person's perceived anatomy.
Going against that legislation would require demonstrating a real safety threat, said Wayne MacKay, professor emeritus at Schulich school of law at Dalhousie University.
Hogan has not said publicly how he wants to address his concerns, what the possible outcomes of the review would be, and what would change, if anything, about the wording within Policy 713. He has said, however, that he does not plan to limit any LGBTQ rights.
The section about washrooms has two parts. The first says, "all students will have access to washroom facilities that align with their gender identity." The second says every school should have at least one gender-neutral washroom
Wayne
MacKay, professor emeritus at Dalhousie University's Schulich school of
law, says it's possible to limit access to washrooms for a trans
person, but there has to be proof they're a threat to other people. (Submitted by Wayne MacKay)
The first line of the section is almost identical to the New Brunswick Human Rights Commission's guidelines on washroom access.
Those guidelines say schools, stores and other public spaces "cannot prohibit or restrict a trans person from using the washroom or change facility that aligns with their gender identity."
In response to a request for more detail, a spokesperson for the Department fo Education sent a statement saying the section "came under review recently to better define or clarify terminology."
You can't discriminate based on an unreasonable fear of negative consequences. You can, based on a reasonable fear of consequences.
- Wayne MacKay, Dalhousie University
The department did not say what terminology is to be better defined or clarified.
Earlier this month, the government said the review would look at a section that says teachers would need to get a student's consent before sharing informal name and pronoun changes, and one that says children are allowed to play on the sports team of the gender they identify with.
Access can't be limited without evidence
MacKay said that when balancing one right and another, evidence is important.
He said the only way to have an exception to the right to use facilities, for the sake of female students' right to safety, is to have proof there is a real threat.
"It wouldn't automatically follow from saying that they had some concerns, that [officials] would then say, 'Well, we're not going to have a gender-neutral bathroom,' or 'We're going to have a gender neutral bathroom and that's the only one you can use.'
"You can't discriminate based on an unreasonable fear of negative consequences. You can, based on a reasonable fear of consequences."
If a particular person is being a threat to a student, and there's enough evidence, that person can be barred from using the washroom regardless of whether they're trans, MacKay said, and that would not be a rights violation.
Some kids would not use the washroom at all
Gail Costello, a retired teacher of 30 years who helped implement the policy, said the safety concerns she's heard come from trans kids.
When there are no gender-neutral bathrooms, or access to it is stigmatized, some students would choose to not go to the bathroom at all because they worried about a backlash and bullying.
"Or they just can't wait till lunchtime, so they can run to the mall and go to the washroom," she said.
"Or they arrive late to school … because they know if they missed the first period they can make it till the end of the day without using the washroom."
The federal government, in explaining the 2017 amendment to the Human Rights Act to protect gender identity and expression, said transgender people pose no threat.
"[Transgender] and other gender-diverse Canadians already use gender-appropriate bathrooms and pose no greater threat than anyone else in doing so." the government said. "They simply want to use the washroom or change room that corresponds with their lived identity."
Costello said many schools in New Brunswick have gender neutral washrooms, and had them even before policy 713 was created in 2020.
These washrooms are typically private, one-stall rooms. She said they are often used by all students because they're more private and feel safer.
Former Oromocto High School student Emmanuelle Jackson said that for this reason alone, there should be gender-neutral bathrooms in every school.
"If you can't feel safe using the bathroom at school, where else are you going to feel safe?" said Jackson, who identified as non-binary. "There should be no reason that people feel unsafe just doing a simple task in school."
The planned review of Policy 713 has provoked protests in New Brunswick cities and some dissent among cabinet ministers in the Progressive Conservative government.
Seven PC MLAs have spoken out in support of Policy 713, some calling for more consultation. Others, like MLA Jeff Carr, said if any changes are made they should only strengthen the policy to be better at protecting LGBTQ students.
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Trans players on sports teams have been subject of zero complaints, organizations say
Premier questions fairness; largest organizations say it's never been an issue
The premier of New Brunswick says his government is concerned about trans athletes in girls' sports, but the association regulating school sports says it has not received a single complaint about that issue in at least a decade.
On Friday, when answering questions about his government's review of a school policy that protects trans LGBTQ students, Premier Blaine Higgs said another issue involving children is on his radar.
"There's the real issue of sports and understanding, 'OK what does that look like and how should that go forward?'" Higgs told reporters.
"And working with sports associations to figure that out, because we are concerned about the unfairness on women's teams."
Nic
Jansen, executive director of Hockey New Brunswick, says there's more
work to be done to be more inclusive of kids who are LGBTQ and trans. (Submitted by Nic Jansen)
Higgs — whose government has sparked a furore by reviewing a policy intended to make schools safer for queer and trans students — did not respond to questions about which sports associations he was referring to, and what conversations he's had or plans to have with them.
Andy Clark, the president of the New Brunswick Interscholastic Athletic Association, said this is not a concern for his organization.
He may have had complaints come to him. We've not had any come to us.
- Andy Clark
In the eight years the association has had a trans-inclusive policy, and in his time as president, the association has not received a single complaint from students, their parents or anyone concerned about fairness for non-trans students when it comes to including trans students.
He also said the province has not reached out to the association with the concerns that Higgs referenced.
"He may have had complaints come to him. We've not had any come to us," Clark said.
"So if that's what he's received, then we can discuss that and look at that … We have not received any complaints with the NBIAA and, really, no concerns have been raised around the policy with us."
About 16,000 students involved
The NBIAA runs 16 high-school organized sports, and includes a membership of 16,000 students and 2,000 coaches.
Clark said the organization has in fact had one complaint, but it came from a trans student who was assigned female at birth and was playing with the boys team. The student said he did not feel comfortable with that and asked to join the female team.
The rules originally said students should play with whichever team they identify with.
Following that complaint, Clark said the organization consulted with the Department of Education and changed the policy to say that a student can play with whichever team they feel comfortable.
"I think overall, just allowing student athletes to participate where they feel most comfortable, where they feel safest, has worked for us," he said. "There's nothing that's been negative from our standpoint at this point in time."
While
Policy 713 doesn't explicitly mentions sports, Premier Blaine Higgs has
mentioned fairness in sports and transgender people several times while
speaking about it. (Isabelle Arseneau/Radio-Canada)
Policy 713, which sparked the debate, does not address school sports specifically. It does though say "all students will be able to participate in curricular, co-curricular, and extracurricular activities that are safe, welcoming, and consistent with their gender identity."
The policy also outlines guidelines for schools teachers, principals and staff about LGBTQ student safety. It includes guidelines about respecting the pronouns of trans students and making gender-neutral washrooms available.
Review expanded to include sports
More than a month after the review of the policy began, Higgs has clarified that the policy is not being repealed or suspended, but rather one section is being reviewed and some minor changes could be made.
Last week, the sections of the policy being reviewed have expanded to include "the process for team sport selection and participation," according to a statement sent to CBC News on behalf of Higgs and Education Minister Bill Hogan.
"The other point in terms of you know, transgender, let's say, women, on women's hockey team. You basically say 'OK what about the the other women on the hockey team that obviously aren't able to compete in the same manner?'" he said. "Is that fair? I don't know."
Higgs is referencing the discussion about what kind of advantage male puberty and physiology gives an athlete who transitions to a woman.
The conversation about allowing transgender women to compete alongside cisgender women has been ongoing in the elite sports fields.
But for school sports, and junior and minor New Brunswick hockey, it's not been an issue, according to the executive director of HockeyNB Nic Jansen.
"There's quite frankly just none that have come through our office," he said.
In fact, with 15 players suspended for discrimination last year, the organization is focusing on the importance of including people who have been historically excluded.
"We need to be committed to making hockey and making sports more inclusive," he said. "I think there's still some work to be done in this in this space. We need to provide education coaches, to volunteers to the athletes themselves."
HockeyNB had 14,610 registered players this season. The majority of them, 94 per cent, are minors between the ages of four to 17.
Jansen said he's been the president for nine years, and has not seen a single complaint about fairness from either trans or cisgender athletes or their parents.
HockeyNB has adopted Hockey Canada's policy on gender inclusion, which says people can play with the team they identify with. But HockeyNB also has many co-ed teams, Jansen said, which makes the discussion even less relevant.
"From under-seven all the way up to to under-18, we would have females skating with males on on the same team, which has happened for 50-plus years. It's not a new thing."
Like Clark, Jansen said he has not been directly asked for input on this issue. He said he shared the policy with provincial officials during a diversity and inclusion session two weeks ago.
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