Thursday 18 May 2023

PC caucus rejected review of gender-identity policy once before, former minister says

 
 

PC caucus rejected review of gender-identity policy once before, former minister says

Many Tory MLAs won’t say if they agree with review or endorse premier’s comments on LGBTQ students

The Fredericton West-Hanwell MLA, who sits as an independent, said the policy on sexual orientation and gender identity "was years in the making, involved considerable grassroots engagement and has been in effect without incident for a couple of years."

He said Premier Blaine Higgs raised several concerns in 2020, "most of which were not real," and took it to the PC caucus hoping MLAs would agree to review it.

Instead, the MLAs "largely reacted with support for the policy," he said.

The review of the policy, which sets minimum requirement for making schools safe and inclusive for LGBTQ students, has triggered a wave of criticism. 

 A man in a suit and glasses speaking into a microphone.New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs provoked criticism on Tuesday when he said schools should not be allowed to keep a student's adoption of a new name and pronoun secret from their parents when the student is younger than 16. (Ed Hunter/CBC)

Higgs said Tuesday he didn't act on his concerns when the policy was adopted because such policies don't get "a whole lot of air time" and don't require cabinet approval.

"I knew about it, but didn't know the particular content," said the premier, who questioned why it wasn't debated publicly at the time.

But Cardy said he sent the finished document to Higgs's office "for a final look-over" at the time and never heard back, so he signed it into effect just before the 2020 campaign. 

It was only after the election that Higgs summoned him and deputy minister George Daley to a meeting to hear his concerns and then went to the PC caucus hoping to deliver a "coup de grâce," Cardy said.

Instead, the caucus was generally comfortable with the document. 

"It was probably the most well-developed policy that the department had worked on in a number of years, in terms of the number of stakeholders involved and the efforts to get people's voices heard and to make sure it was done carefully," Cardy said.

Current Education Minister Bill Hogan said Wednesday he remembered no such caucus discussion after the last election and didn't recall ever discussing Policy 713 before this year.

Woman speaking into three microphones   Jill Green, minister for housing, wouldn't say if she thinks the policy should be changed. (Radio-Canada)

Housing Minister Jill Green, who co-signed a letter with Cardy in 2021 critical of the government's handling of Indigenous land declarations, wouldn't say if she recalled the caucus endorsing the policy.

"This policy has been in place for a couple of years. We're all aware of it and I'm not going to speak about what we were talking about in caucus or cabinet, of course," she said.

Green also wouldn't say if she thinks the policy should be changed.

"I strongly support children, I strongly support the safety of children, the safety of children in schools and the LGBTQSI children within the schools, and I will use my voice to continue to advocate for them," Green said.

Premier questions drag queen storytime

Higgs provoked strong criticism on Tuesday when he said schools should not be allowed to keep a student's adoption of a new name and pronoun secret from their parents when the student is younger than 16.

He did not clearly explain why he thinks parents should always know about the choice, even in cases where they may be hostile to their child's sexual orientation or gender identity.

He also questioned whether drag queen storytime events in school amounted to "promotion" of a different sexual orientation and refused to say if he thinks children would become gay after participating.

Those remarks prompted an outpouring of criticism online.

Several PC MLAs, including senior cabinet ministers Ernie Steeves, Mike Holland and Jeff Carr, would not take questions on the subject Wednesday.

Moncton South MLA Greg Turner, who chairs the PC caucus, also wouldn't comment.

Opposition Liberal Leader Susan Holt said she suspects most PC MLAs would like Policy 713 to remain as is and that the push to weaken it is coming from Higgs.

"I think his caucus is broadly supportive of the policy, of Policy 713. I don't think this is a partisan thing. I think it's more personal."

A woman with long light-brown hair, in a blue suit and black shirt stands outside the legislature and smiles for the camera. Minister of Women's Equality Minister Tammy Scott-Wallace also says she doesn't know if Policy 713 should be changed. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)

Some other PC members said they supported the review. 

"It's just a review. A simple review. That's all it is," said Moncton Southwest MLA Sherry Wilson. "It's nothing major to be changed."

She said she "absolutely" supports the premier.

Minister of Women's Equality Tammy Scott-Wallace said Wednesday she did not know if the policy should be changed. 

She said all children need to feel safe and included at school, and parents have "a very important role to play" in their children's lives.

"I'm never afraid to have conversations. It is a new policy so I'm not afraid of the conversations circulating this past week," she said.

Review 'important' says Kris Austin

Public Safety Minister Kris Austin said it's important to have the review. 

He said he has to consent to his school-aged children taking a Tylenol at school, having their picture taken and going on a field trip, and the pronoun issue was no different. 

Hogan and Higgs both argued Wednesday that if a child feels they're in danger at home because of their sexual orientation or gender identify or any other reason, other mechanisms exist for teachers or school staff to step in.

"If a teacher believes there is a serious danger to a student, they are required by law to notify social services," Hogan said.

A woman with short light hair speaks into a microphone. Margaret Johnson, minister of agriculture, aquaculture and fisheries, didn't say whether a child's choice of pronoun should be disclosed to parents. (Radio-Canada)

Carleton-Victoria MLA Margaret Johnson, a former teacher, read a statement in the legislature Wednesday marking the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia.

Johnson said she volunteered to read it as a former teacher who taught trans students.

She acknowledged to reporters that some children have relationships with their parents "that are not ideal" and agreed those students have ways to get confidential support at school.

But she didn't say whether a child's pronoun choice should have to be disclosed to parents.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR


Jacques Poitras

Provincial Affairs reporter

Jacques Poitras has been CBC's provincial affairs reporter in New Brunswick since 2000. He grew up in Moncton and covered Parliament in Ottawa for the New Brunswick Telegraph-Journal. He has reported on every New Brunswick election since 1995 and won awards from the Radio Television Digital News Association, the National Newspaper Awards and Amnesty International. He is also the author of five non-fiction books about New Brunswick politics and history.

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90 Comments 
 
 
 
David Amos    
In my humble opinion if the Right Wing Parties don't clue in ASAP Trudeau The Younger may become the the longest serving Prime Minister in our History much to the chagrin of the majority of the Canadian Electorate. The Conservatives have only themselves to blame for his victories thus far.
 
 
 
 
David Amos   
I wonder if any of these people recall our conversations BEFORE they were ever elected  
 
 
 
David Amos
Everybody knows I am no fan of Higg's However we happen to agree on this issue which should be no surprise to any politician in New Brunswick 



David Amos      
FYI When I read this yesterday I picked up the phone

"Dominic Vautour, a member of the Anglophone East district education council, called the premier's comments on Policy 713 deplorable." 

 


David Amos  

Where is Higgy's #1 spindoctor today?
 
 
 
David Amos  
 
Higgy and Cardy deserve each other  
 
 
 
 
Lorelei Stott  
support Higgs, transparency is best  
 
 
David Amos

Reply to Lorelei Stott  
How about Higgy begins by practicing what he preaches?
 
 
 
 
 
 
danny rugg 
The finger points to ultra religous MP for Fundy Royal Rob Moore , Higgs political connection to the Federal government , and the main supplier of Higgs point of view. The two of them should open their own church together , but neither should be in politics. 
 
 
Alison Jackson
Reply to danny rugg  
David Amos

Reply to Alison Jackson
Remember me? 

 

Reply to Alison Jackson
Worked for the guy's landscaping company the summer he ran for office. He and his brother Sam would leave religious pamphlets stuff in our lunch boxes. He was super concerned when he found a Slayer cd in the truck.  
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to danny rugg    
Hmmm
 
 
 
 
 
Jim Lake
New Brunswick’s government is increasingly embarking down increasingly regressive policy paths … a very sad times for our province. 
 
 
Ronald Miller  
Reply to Jim Lake
Show these paths?  
 
 
Don Corey 
Reply to Jim Lake 
What is so sad about it?

Sadness would indeed be an ongoing concern under a Liberal government, as fairly recent history has clearly demonstrated.

 
David Amos 
Reply to Don Corey
True
 
 
 
 
Marcel Belanger
Higgs is putting his homophobia on full display. This whole fiasco is once again of his own making. I wonder how much more of this his caucus can endure, it’s one after the other recently with our premier. They need to replace him or else Susan Holt will repeat McKenna’s provincial sweep.  
 
 
Don Corey 
Reply to Marcel Belanger
Interesting how an allegation like that can stick around for so long. Could it be because it involves a PC politician? humour.  
 
 
Don Corey 
Reply to Don Corey
I'm referring to the first sentence only of Marcel's post. The last one is obviously just in there for humour.  
 
 
David Amos 
Reply to Don Corey
Two words
 

David Amos
Reply to David Amos
Butter Tarts
 
 
Marcel Belanger
Reply to Don Corey
Because he’s a PC politician? Really, you try to bring down the issue to irrelevance by saying it’s because he’s a conservative, that’s ridiculous. Stay with the main point and stop deflecting….if you can. His statements are clearly homophobic and his injecting his views on things that are outside the scope of policy 713 to conflate the issue clearly confirms his homophobia. Doesn’t matter what political body he belongs to, wrong is wrong. 
 
Ronald Miller
Reply to Marcel Belanger
What a disaster for the province that would be, another SANB puppet to do their bidding.  
 
 
Don Corey
Reply to Marcel Belanger  
There will be no Liberal sweep under Susan Holt.

Regardless of what Higgs does or doesn't do, it just "ain't gonna happen".

Keith McLellan 
Reply to Ronald Miller
And no one to blame other than Higgs, and his ministers that are afraid to stand up and voice their concerns about his use of negative identity politics. 
 
 
Michael Cain  
Reply to Don Corey 
You have a link for that?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Michael Cain 
Obviously I did  
 
 
 
 
 
A Stewart 
What's Higgs trying to divert attention from now?  
 
 
Michael Cain  

Reply to A Stewart  
 
 
Al Clark
Reply to Michael Cain 
Surely he used his COR translation app a lot? 
 
 
Rosco holt
Reply to Michael Cain
Or he is selling NBPower to the Ontario outfit who was interested in Lepreau. 
 
 
Ronald Miller 
Reply to Michael Cain
Rotterdam is always a huge vacation get away spot for people.
 
 
Ronald Miller 
Reply to Michael Cain 
https://www.drycargomag.com/belledune-and-rotterdam-agree-to-work-together-on-clean-energy-solutions - more great work by our premier, did anything like this get done in Jamaica? 
 
 
David Amos 
Reply to Al Clark
Methinks you have been conferring with the Chief of Staff of the opposition leader N'esy Pas? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Michael Cain  
MLAs might be interested in being running mates with Cardy and his new and improved Conservative party with some guy named Petersen. The sooner we can bring down the kingdom of Higgs the better. 
 
 
Don Corey
Reply to Michael Cain   
Nope. He's tried the NDP and Conservatives. There are only a couple options left now, and neither will help his re-election chances.  
 
 
Michael Cain  
Reply to Don Corey
Cardy and Peterson plan to have a more centrist Conservative party. Get informed.  

 
Marcel Belanger 
Reply to Michael Cain  
I believe that for now it’s to be federal only. Our provincial party is still the PC party but Higgs has moved it far right onto CPC territory. A new leader could bring it back….hopefully.  
 
 
Don Corey
Reply to Michael Cain
I said he has couple options. Dreams don't count. 
 
 
Don Corey
Reply to Marcel Belanger 
No, the party is still the same, but the other parties continue to move further to the left. It's the same leftward situation on the federal scene.

 
Marcel Belanger

Reply to Don Corey
 
 
Ronald Miller    
Reply to Michael Cain
He gets to go when he is good and ready, he has earned it. 
 
 
Don Corey
Reply to Marcel Belanger  
False and ridiculous and wrong. 
 
 
Michael Cain  
Reply to Don Corey  
Got a link for that? 
 
 
Don Corey
Reply to Michael Cain
Not for you. Just read and let it sink in, if that's possible.  
 
 
David Amos 
Reply to Don Corey
Are you keeping a tally?  
 
 
Michael Cain  
Reply to Don Corey  
Didn't think so. Opinions without facts are nonsense.  
 
 
 

 
Anna Barnes 
I don't really care if this is mainly driven by Higgs or not. How gender identity issues are handled in the schools and whether or not parents have to be in the loop are important for children and families in this province and this policy should be reviewed. Despite what Cardy says, lots of people didn't know about it, at least not in detail. The Education Minister says he was unaware of it until this year! 
 
 
Michael Cain
Reply to Anna Barnes
If you saw Hogan in the legislature yesterday, he was probably sleeping. 
 
 
David Amos 
Reply to Anna Barnes 
Methinks many would agree that its not wise to believe any of them N'esy Pas?  
 
 
 
 
Lou Bell  
 
 
 
Matt Steele
Reply to Lou Bell
Yep , Cardy hasn't had much luck in finding a political party who wants him around ; so now he is trying to get the new Center ICE party off the ground so that he can keep feeding at the trough....lol 
 
.
David Amos 
Reply to Matt Steele 
Try telling us something we don't already know  
 
 

Michael Cain 
Of course PC MLAs have little to say about the subject; they are still working on their pension. 
 
 
Don Corey
Reply to Michael Cain 
As are all other MLA's. No big deal here. 
 
 
David Amos 
Reply to Don Corey
Oh So True
 
 
 
 
 
Kyle Woodman  
Dissention in the ranks it appears. Higgs wedge issue is wedging his own party. 
 
 
David Amos 
Reply to Kyle Woodman  
Welcome back to the circus 
 
 
 
 
 
G. Timothy Walton  
Majority government = bad policies
 
 
David Amos 
Reply to G. Timothy Walton 
I concur




Marcel Belanger 
Well, if I read correctly between the lines this is all about Higgs and his views. This is nothing new and pretty much par for his course.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to Marcel Belanger 
Much ado about nothing


 

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