Mr Prime Minister Trudeau "The Younger" , the CBC, the RCMP and the CROWN's many lawyers should understand why I appreciate Parliament labelling citizen's words as EVIDENCE N'esy Pas?

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=e&Mode=1&Parl=42&Ses=1&DocId=8493010

Special Committee on Electoral Reform

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NUMBER 039

l

1st SESSION

l

42nd PARLIAMENT

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EVIDENCE

Friday, October 7, 2016

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

  (1335) 

[English]

The Chair:

    Thank you very much.

    Mr. David Amos, the floor is yours.

Mr. David Amos (As an Individual):

     Mr. Chair, I ran for public office five times against your party. That said, I ran against Mr. DeCourcey's boss right here in Fredericton in the election for the 39th Parliament.

    I was not aware of this committee meeting in Fredericton today until I heard Mr. DeCourcey speaking on CBC this morning. I don't pretend to know something I don't, but I'm a quick study. I thought I had paid my dues to sit on the panel. I notified the clerks in a timely fashion, but I received no response. At least I get another minute and a half.

    The previous speaker answered the $64,000 question: 338. I can name every premier in the country. Governor Maggie Hassan is my governor in New Hampshire. The people there who sit in the house get paid $100 a year plus per diem expenses. I think that's the way to run a government. There are lots of seats in the house for a very small state.

    My understanding of this hearing is that you have to report to Mr. Trudeau by December 1, because he said during the election that if he were elected Prime Minister, the 42nd Parliament, which I also ran in, would be the last first-past-the-post election. You don't have much time, so my suggestion to the clerks today, which I published and sent to the Prime Minister of Iceland and his Attorney General, was to do what Iceland does. Just cut and paste their rules. They have no first past the post. They have a pending election.

     A former friend of mine, Birgitta Jónsdóttir, founded a party there, for which there is no leader. It is the Pirate Party. It's high in the polls right now with no leader. That's interesting. I tweeted this. You folks said that you follow tweets, so you should have seen what I tweeted before I came here this evening.

     That said, as a Canadian, I propose something else. Number one, my understanding of the Constitution and what I read about law.... There was a constitutional expert named Edgar Schmidt who sued the government. He was the man who was supposed to vet bills for Peter MacKay to make sure they were constitutionally correct. He did not argue the charter. He argued Mr. Diefenbaker's Bill of Rights.

    In 2002 I read a document filed by a former deputy minister of finance, Kevin Lynch, who later became Mr. Harper's clerk of the Privy Council. Now he's on an independent board of the Chinese oil company that bought Nexen. As deputy minister of finance, he reported to the American Securities and Exchange Commission on behalf of the corporation known as Canada. It is a very interesting document that I saved and forwarded to you folks. It says that he was in a quandary about whether the charter was in effect.

  (2005)  

The Chair:

    Could it be in relation to a particular voting system?

Mr. David Amos:

    According to Mr. Lynch, because of the failure of the Meech Lake and Charlottetown accords, he was in a quandary as to whether the charter was in effect. I know that the Supreme Court argues it on a daily basis. That charter, created by Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Chrétien, his attorney general at the time, gave me the right to run for public office and vote as a Canadian citizen. However, in the 1990s, Mr. Chrétien came out with a law, and because I am a permanent American resident, I can't vote. Yet the charter says I can.

The Chair:

    That's a—

Mr. David Amos:

    That said, that's been argued in court. In 2000, Mr. Chrétien came out with a law that said I couldn't vote. Right? He also took away my social insurance number.

The Chair:

    I don't know about the case—

Mr. David Amos:

    No, he did.

The Chair:

    But I don't know about the case.

Mr. David Amos:

     I did prove, after I argued with Elections Canada's lawyers in 2004.... You might have taken away my right to vote, but you can't stop me from running for public office, and I proved it five times.

The Chair:

    Given that you're an experienced candidate—

Mr. David Amos:

    Very experienced.

The Chair:

    —does that experience provide you with a particular insight on the voting systems we're looking at?

Mr. David Amos:

    In Mr. Trudeau's words, he has to come up with a plan and no more first past the post. My suggestion to you, in my contact today, is to cut and paste Iceland's rules.

The Chair:

    What kind of system does Iceland have?

Mr. David Amos:

     It's just what you need, just what Mr. Trudeau is ordering now. It's proportional elections.

The Chair:

    Is it MMP, or is it just...?

Mr. David Amos:

    I tweeted you the beginner's book for Iceland.

The Chair:

    Okay, we'll look at Iceland.

    We're just checking on the kind of system they have, but I appreciate the input, especially from a candidate, from somebody who has run many times.

    But we do have—

Mr. David Amos:

    I have two other points, because I don't think you can pull this off. I don't think it will happen.

The Chair:

    Well, I'm hoping we do.

Mr. David Amos:

    Here is my suggestion. You guys are going north.

The Chair:

    Yes.

Mr. David Amos:

    Look how parliamentarians are elected in the Northwest Territories. There is no party, and I like that.

The Chair:

    That's true. We were just up in Yellowknife, in fact, and we learned all about that. That's why it's good for us to be travelling the country.

    But, sir, I—

Mr. David Amos:

     I have one more suggestion.

The Chair:

    One more.

Mr. David Amos:

    Mr. Harper changed the Canada Elections Act and I still couldn't vote.

The Chair:

    Yes, I was in the House when that happened.

Mr. David Amos:

    Anyway, that said, when you alter the Canada Elections Act, make it....

    The biggest problem we have is, look at the vast majority of people who, like me, have never voted in their life. Apathy rules the day.

The Chair:

    Except that you've put us on to an idea about Iceland—

Mr. David Amos:

    Let me finish.

    I suggest that you make voting mandatory, such as Australia does. Make it that if you don't vote, it costs you money, just like if you don't report to Statistics Canada.

The Chair:

    Well, we're talking about that. That is part of our mandate, to look at mandatory voting and online voting.

    You already had your last suggestion.

  (2010)  

Mr. David Amos:

    Put in the line, “none of the above”, and if “none of the above” wins—

The Chair:

    That's right, we've heard that, too.

Mr. David Amos:

    Well, I haven't.

The Chair:

    We've heard that in our testimony.

Mr. David Amos:

    You and I will be talking again, trust me on that one, by way of writing.

     You answered my emails, Ma'am.

The Chair:

    Thank you very much, sir.

    Now we'll hear from Julie Maitland. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-trudeau-electoral-reform-critics-1.3813714

Critics accuse Justin Trudeau of electoral reform flip-flop for 'selfish' political gain

Prime minister insists he is 'deeply committed' to consultation process on changes to voting system

By Kathleen Harris, CBC News Posted: Oct 20, 2016 4:44 PM ET

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was dogged by questions about electoral reform during a visit to the new Amazon Fulfillment Centre in Brampton, Ont., on Thursday, October 20, 2016. (Nathan Denette/Canadian Press) 

 

David Raymond Amos

@Darren MacDonald Perhaps CBC's lawyer should review my Twitter account and my blog ASAP EH?

Just now

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David Raymond Amos

@Darren MacDonald So do ya think CBC is gonna block my comment again?

If not Perhaps folks should listen to what I told the Liebrano chair ERRE in Fat Fred City just before Thanksgiving?? My words can be found at 19:03 mark of this ERRE hearing.

http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/XRender/en/PowerBrowser/PowerBrowserV2/20161007/-1/25706?useragent=Mozilla/5.0%20(Windows%20NT%206.1;%20WOW64;%20Trident/7.0;%20SLCC2;%20.NET%20CLR%202.0.50727;%20.NET%20CLR%203.5.30729;%20.NET%20CLR%203.0.30729;%20Media%20Center%20PC%206.0;%20.NET%20CLR%201.1.4322;%20.NET4.0C;%20.NET4.0E;%20InfoPath.3;%20rv:11.0)%20like%20Gecko

It appears that I was absolutely correct about what I said Franny Baby your beancounting Liebrano buddy from Montreal N'esy Pas Mr Prime Minister Trudeau "The Younger" ???

10 hours ago

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David Raymond Amos

@Darren MacDonald To Mr Prime Minister Trudeau "The Younger" ya think even the greedy lawyer Hubby Lacroix and his many mindless minions would have figured out by now what I have been up to.

It seems that all your fellow snobby lawyers from Montreal and the Governor General's daughter Alex cannot understand a CROWN Corp's mandate to be non partisan even after Hubby's old buddy Harper has run off and hid under a rock in Alberta with his political puppet master the Evil Yankee Tommy Boy Flanagan N'esy Pas Minister Melanie Joly?

Methinks that Hubby Baby is to dumb to even read his emails.I bet his minions who do read them are too scared to tell the boss that they know that I have been mirroring the true story of CBC's obvious wrongs within a blog for many months. Hence everybody and his dog within CBC are playing as dumb as posts which quite frankly is not hard for a greedy CBC employee to do N'esy Pas? Well CBC can bet dimes to dollars that this comment will be emailed around the world and back then posted with the aforesaid blog in a heartbeat. Trust their Evil Yankee hero Hillary and her pal Trump will be on the list of people to get my email.

Folks should consider it just another one of those things a fierce but ethical political animal does that CBC and legions of journalists, bloggers, lawyers, cops and politicians have FAILED to appreciate since 2002 EH Rotten Ralphy Goodale?.

9 hours ago

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David Raymond Amos

@colin smith Oh so true but this "change" rhetoric is older than the mean old Liebrano lawyer Chretien. Methinks its as old as man himself and prehistoric in nature.

However as of today and the war of words ensues within the CBC domain about the ERRE, the unethical jouranlists employed by the Crown block all but one of my comments thus far. Yet the mindless journalist have a better record than the lawyers working within the Federal Court. Thus far they have failed to publish all six decisions in my lawsuit that I filed last year while running for a seat in Parliament again. I have no doubt whatsoever that malice was practiced for the benefit of the Mr Prime Minister Trudeau "The Younger" and his many Liebrano minions

That said byway of the many comments about ERRE that I it do get to read methinks that folks are starting to realize that Trudeau is just "Harper Light" Hell I bet even the has been rebel/lawyer Ezzy Baby Levant is now a secret fan of his "Shiny Pony" N'esy Pas?

1 hour ago
 

David Raymond Amos

@David Raymond Amos Even though Twitter has been down because of the hack today while CBC continues to block my comments trust that I am busy blogging everything that the unethical Crown Corp will not allow for the benefit of their Liebrano puppet masters

1 minute ago

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David Raymond Amos

@David Raymond Amos So has CBC's many mindless lawyers figured out yet where to find what they had deleted?

Enjoy

http://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.ca/2016/10/mr-prime-minister-trudeau-younger-and.html

1 minute ago

David Raymond Amos

@David Raymond Amos News flash even though CBC continues to delete my comments at least Twitter is back up and on the roll again.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dyn-ddos-attack-websites-down-1.3815417

So with that in mind I will create a pdf file of this particular "News" article by CBC about the ERRE with ALL the comments of mine that CBC blocked for illegal political reasons. Once it is uploaded in SCRIBD just like CBC does. Then I will Tweet your evil boss Hubby Baby Lacroix and his latest political bosses Mr Prime Minister Trudeau "The Younger" and Minister Melanie Joly.

Yo Jacques Poitras and Duncan Matheson of Fat Fred City the two nasty dudes i am listening to on CBC right now. I dare ya to.ask me if a care if your CBC buddies block this comment. In fact I Double Dog Dare Ya to. I am tweeted you two too.

https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies

Just now

 http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wherry-trudeau-electoral-reform-1.3811862

Trudeau says government's popularity has dampened public's desire for electoral reform

Prime minister criticized for suggesting electorate might not be clamouring for change he promised

By Aaron Wherry, CBC News Posted: Oct 19, 2016 6:45 PM ET

Justin Trudeau promised he would introduce legislation for electoral reform within 18 months of forming a government, based on the recommendations of an all-party parliamentary committee. (Paul Chiasson/Canadian Press) 

One year after his party's resounding election victory, Justin Trudeau finds himself in a terrible bind: his government is so beloved that it might not, in good conscience, be able to fulfil one of its campaign commitments.

Yes, the Liberal government did promise the federal election in 2015 would be the last such campaign conducted under the first-past-the-post system.

But his government has also since said it won't proceed with electoral reform unless there is broad public support for doing so.

And, the prime minister suggested in an interview this week with Le Devoir, the government's delivery of satisfactory governance might be diminishing the public's desire for change.

"Under Mr. Harper, there were so many people dissatisfied with the government and its approach that they were saying, 'We need an electoral reform so that we can no longer have a government we don't like,'" Trudeau explained.

"However, under the current system, they now have a government they are more satisfied with. And the motivation to want to change the electoral system is less urgent."

 
David Raymond Amos
@Ben Smith Perhaps folks should listen to what I told the ERRE in Fredericton just before Thanksgiving??

 It appears that I was absolutely correct about what I said Franny Baby your beancounting Liebrano chair from Montreal N'esy Pas Mr Prime Minister Trudeau "The Younger" ???
40 minutes ago


DO YA THINK EZZY BABY LEVANT'S "SHINY PONY" WHOM THE  MINDLESS PETEY MANSBRIDGE OF THE CBC CALLS MR PRIME MINISTER TRUDEAU "THE YOUNGER' IS BRIGHT ENOUGH TO READ MY WORDS AS HE LOOKS UP OR LISTEN TO WHAT THE VERY UNETHICAL JOURNALISTS ARE YAPPING ABOUT ON CBC BELOW???

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-pollcast-omalley-wherry-1.3813916
  
89 Comments

Darren MacDonald

I thought his platform was based on how different things would be.

22 hours ago

 

Show 6 older replies

 

David Raymond Amos

@Darren MacDonald I hope you are being facetious

Anyone with half a clue in 2015 knew that Trudeau "The Younger" and a possible Liebrano mandate of his would merely be a version of "Harper Light" particularly when he supported
Bill C 51. Correct?

1 hour ago

 

David Raymond Amos

@David Raymond Amos WOW over the past 24 hours have your minions within CBC ever been busy being VERY selective in which of my comments that they will allow to stand the test of time

Methinks that you forgot that the Crown Corp you were politically appointed to oversee by Harper has a mandate to be non partisan N'esy Pas Hubby Baby Lacroix?

1 hour ago

The Pollcast: Has the Liberal government given up on electoral reform?

Host Éric Grenier is joined by Aaron Wherry and the Ottawa Citizen's Kady O'Malley

CBC News Posted: Oct 20, 2016 5:17 PM ET

 

Maybe electoral reform isn't such a great idea after all. (Chris Wattie/Reuters) 

The CBC Pollcast, hosted by CBC poll analyst Éric Grenier, explores the world of electoral politics, political polls and the trends they reveal.

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​Has Justin Trudeau given up on electoral reform?

In a recent interview, the prime minister explained that the appetite for electoral reform has diminished now that his government has replaced Stephen Harper's. Some have seen this as an admission that the Liberals have lost interest in changing the way Canadians vote now that the system has put the Liberals in power.

• Trudeau says government's popularity has dampened public's desire for electoral reform
• Podcasts: Subscribe to the CBC Pollcast​

But others see Trudeau as laying down the gauntlet to the opposition parties that are in favour of electoral reform: find consensus or it won't happen.

So where do things stand on the electoral reform issue? Can it still happen? And if the government is backing out, why did it start this process in the first place?

Joining podcast host Éric Grenier to discuss the issue are the CBC's Aaron Wherry and Kady O'Malley of the Ottawa Citizen.

The CBC Election Pollcast

Is Justin Trudeau backing away from electoral reform?

00:00 23:04

Listen to the full discussion above — or subscribe to the CBC Pollcast and listen to past episodes.
Follow Éric Grenier, Aaron Wherry and Kady O'Malley on Twitter.

To encourage thoughtful and respectful conversations, first and last names will appear with each submission to CBC/Radio-Canada's online communities (except in children and youth-oriented communities). Pseudonyms will no longer be permitted.

By submitting a comment, you accept that CBC has the right to reproduce and publish that comment in whole or in part, in any manner CBC chooses. Please note that CBC does not endorse the opinions expressed in comments. Comments on this story are moderated according to our Submission Guidelines.
Comments are welcome while open. We reserve the right to close comments at any time.

80 Comments 

 http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wherry-trudeau-electoral-reform-opinion-1.3814319

How does Justin Trudeau really feel about electoral reform? Let's go to the tape

What the prime minister has said about the need for change and proportional representation

By Aaron Wherry, CBC News Posted: Oct 21, 2016 9:00 AM ET

Liberal leader Justin Trudeau and family leave a polling station after voting in Montreal, Quebec on Monday, October 19, 2015. (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press) 

Six months before Justin Trudeau's recent suggestion to Montreal's Le Devoir newspaper that the public's enthusiasm for electoral reform had dissipated in the wake of his own government's arrival, the prime minister said the same thing to an audience of students at the University of Ottawa.

"A lot of people I've talked to have said, 'Oh yes, we really, really wanted electoral reform because we had to get rid of Stephen Harper, but now we have a government we sort of like so electoral reform just doesn't seem as much of a priority anymore,'" he explained at that forum.

• How electoral reform is like the Stanley Cup finals
• Trudeau says government's popularity has dampened public's desire for electoral reform
• A primer on the main alternatives to how we vote

In the case of his interview with Le Devoir this week, his observation was generally interpreted to suggest his government is backing away from its commitment that the 2015 campaign would be the last election conducted under the first-past-the-post system.

But at the University of Ottawa six months ago, the comment was made in the midst of what was otherwise a passionate argument in favour of reform.​

'What we need is a preferential ballot.' — Justin Trudeau, in 2013

"I believe fundamentally that we can do better," he said. "We can have an electoral system that does a better job of reflecting the concerns, the voices of Canadians from coast to coast to coast, and give us a better level of governance."

Then, after rhetorically invoking the waffling reformer, he responded.

"Well, it's a priority to me," he said. "It's a priority to a lot of Canadians who say, you know what, we need to make sure that going forward we have the best possible electoral system. One that values Canadian voices. One that creates good governments. One that makes sure that people can [be] and feel involved in the political process.

"That they don't have to make impossible choices between options they don't like. That we are able to create the kind of governance that we need in this country."

'I still believe we need to push for electoral reform.' — Justin Trudeau, in April

Maybe he still feels this way. Or maybe something changed between April 19 and Oct. 19. (Granted, without a complete transcript or recording, we can't know whether any similar enthusiasm was uttered during his interview with Le Devoir.)

Either way, instead of imagining how the Liberals might get out of this, we might ask three questions: What does Justin Trudeau think about reform? How strongly held are his beliefs? And what are the chances that circumstances line up with his thinking?

Trudeau says electoral reform is a priority to him0:50

What Trudeau has said about proportional representation

According to a Liberal source, no final decision on whether to pursue reform has been made. But the government has also specified that broad public support is a prerequisite for major reform and, in that, it's easy to imagine how this could end without a new electoral system.

But first there are the deliberations of the special House of Commons committee on electoral reform. What if that committee produces some kind of bi-partisan, or even unanimous, proposal for a new system?

A unanimous report might be difficult for the government to dismiss, but Trudeau has, in years past, expressed distinct opinions on the alternatives to first-past-the-post.

• Welcome to the summer of electoral reform

In 2013, while running for the Liberal leadership, he proposed moving to preferential voting (whereby voters rank the candidates instead of choosing one). Liberal MP Joyce Murray, also running for party leader, proposed moving to proportional representation.

During a debate in Halifax, the two engaged on the subject and Trudeau expressed strong objections to proportional representation.

"The problem with proportional representation is every different model of proportional representation actually increases partisanship, not reduces it," he said. "What we need is a preferential ballot that causes politicians to have to reach out to be the second choice and even the third choice of different political parties.

"We need people who represent broader voices not narrower interests. And I understand people want proportional representation, but too many people don't understand the polarization and the micro issues that come through proportional representation."

• Maryam Monsef's earnest guide to electoral reform for cynics

His campaign material at the time raised concerns about MPs who wouldn't represent specific communities, presumably a reference to the fact that the mixed-member proportional model can add MPs elected from party lists.

(CPAC also has footage of Trudeau in 2012 making the case for a preferential ballot at a Liberal convention.)

But preferential voting is often thought to be a model that would most benefit the Liberal party, so it is difficult to imagine any of the other parties joining the government in endorsing the system.

Power Panel: Trudeau's electoral reform promise10:12

How Trudeau views electoral reform's possibilities

In an interview with The Canadian Press last December, Trudeau said he wanted to be "careful about pushing my own views on this," but at the University of Ottawa in April, it was apparent the ramifications were still at the forefront of his thinking.

"Is it better to create diversity of voices by making as many different political parties as possible so that in the House of Commons there are all sorts of different perspectives reflected?" he asked the university audience.

"Another way of doing it is to make sure that parties that reach out themselves to fold in a broad diversity of voices and perspectives within their party get rewarded as well."

He seems to prefer the latter notion.

• What kind of electoral reform do you want? Forum lays out options

But could the special committee come up with a model that satisfies Trudeau's concerns or could his concerns be allayed?

If Trudeau tries now to make the case against something like mixed-member proportional, he will be challenged.

But even if he was persuaded, there would still likely be the small matter of public acceptance.

In the case of something less than broad support, how willing would Trudeau be to devote time and energy to trying to bring the public on side? How many other priorities might be competing for his attention? And would he, if necessary, be willing to put it to a referendum?

(Given that any decision to move to a new system must be made by next fall, a referendum might push reform past 2019.)

How hard does Trudeau want to push for electoral reform?

This does seem to be a topic that Trudeau has given some thought to.

At the University of Ottawa forum, his musing went on for more than six minutes. A week later, at New York University, his response to a question on the topic ran nearly five minutes.

In both cases, he declared himself "excited" about the conversation to come. Perhaps he might re-engage that conversation once the committee has returned a recommendation.

• Referendum on electoral reform would be problematic 

In New York, he conceded he was "challenged" by that same dissipating desire for reform.

"I still believe we need to push for electoral reform," he then said, "because I think we need to have a better system that will hold the test of time."

Maybe he still feels that way. If so, this might depend on how hard he wants to push.