David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Methinks "The Powers that Be" should learn how to uphold the document that they created that Quebec has a little trouble believing in N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/03/teacher-shown-door-after-christian.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/christian-school-forces-resignation-over-community-standards-policy-1.5035804
Teacher shown door after Christian school discovers she had sex 'outside of a heterosexual marriage'
Comments
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Mike Hayley
Zero tax dollars should go to
any private school....especially religious schools. Churches don't pay
taxes, so they should fund their own schools.
Samual Johnston
@Matt Thuaii I agree to a point if it was 100% funding - but this system saves us a ton of money - that is why it is in place
Onager Smith
@Mike Hayley
Churches should pay taxes AND fund their own schools.
Churches should pay taxes AND fund their own schools.
David Amos
@Onager YUP
Troy Mann
@Mike Hayley
People who go to church all pay taxes
People who send their kids to church based schools all pay taxes
Why should people pay taxes if they do not get the benefits from them?
Churches are not for profit, should we tax all not for profit organizations or just ones you dont like?
People who go to church all pay taxes
People who send their kids to church based schools all pay taxes
Why should people pay taxes if they do not get the benefits from them?
Churches are not for profit, should we tax all not for profit organizations or just ones you dont like?
David Amos
@Troy Mann "Why should people pay taxes if they do not get the benefits from them?"
You are the highly paid bureaucrat Why not answer your question for us?
You are the highly paid bureaucrat Why not answer your question for us?
Scotty Davidson
@Mike Hayley Our tax dollars are being used to support regime change in Venesuala. What should outrage you more?
Troy Mann
@David Amos
I work in the private industry
I work in the private industry
Scotty Davidson
@Troy Mann No sanctions from our government is killing people. Freeland asking for more sanctions will kill more people.
Mike Hayley
@Scotty Davidson
Umm...a bit of a deflection no? It is ok for a school to fire a teacher because Venezuela?
Umm...a bit of a deflection no? It is ok for a school to fire a teacher because Venezuela?
Stephen McIntyre
@Mike Hayley - This is just
one of many facets of two-tier justice in this country. Eliminating the
problem here would be one of the easier fixes. Sooner is better. If not
here, then what hope is there for bringing parity to gender, racial and
economic disparities? Government should do the right thing instead of
fearing for the loss of some support from conservative corners. It might
make up the difference elsewhere, not that that should be driving this
issue.
James Blake
@Scotty Davidson. I can see
that Venezuela is a big issue for you. But, that situation and this
article are two separate topics worthy of being argued on their own
merits. Conflating the two, or trying to determine where they are on
the scale of outrage is unhelpful.
Daniel Bunbury
@Mike Hayley -
For the record, I find the rule as set out by this school unacceptable, and I would deny public money to any school on the grounds that the school's employment contract violates the Charter of Rights.
But if you are happy for tax dollars to go to YOUR (presumably public) school, then why should the tax dollars of others not be allowed to go to the school of THEIR choice?
And churches are non-profit social organisations, with many members. Are you saying that only non-profit social organisations that YOU agree with should be untaxed?
For the record, I find the rule as set out by this school unacceptable, and I would deny public money to any school on the grounds that the school's employment contract violates the Charter of Rights.
But if you are happy for tax dollars to go to YOUR (presumably public) school, then why should the tax dollars of others not be allowed to go to the school of THEIR choice?
And churches are non-profit social organisations, with many members. Are you saying that only non-profit social organisations that YOU agree with should be untaxed?
Matt Thuaii
@Troy Mann
If it is receiving public funding, but pays no taxes, the institution is receiving benefit from taxes it isn’t paying. In this case, it is acting outside the standard of other publicly funded schools, which aren’t allowed to discriminate based on what someone claims an invisible sky man thinks.
Pretty simple concepts.
If it is receiving public funding, but pays no taxes, the institution is receiving benefit from taxes it isn’t paying. In this case, it is acting outside the standard of other publicly funded schools, which aren’t allowed to discriminate based on what someone claims an invisible sky man thinks.
Pretty simple concepts.
Matt Thuaii
@Troy Mann
The other problem is, our society demands a separation of church and state to function properly, and many religions get around that through their tax exemptions. An example would be the mega churches out of the US that subscribe the the perversion that is the “gospel of prosperity”, effectively the opposite of Christ’s teachings. While on a small scale, tax exemption seems ok...
...many of these large institutions specifically use tax exemption for obscene profit...which they often dump directly into politics.
The other problem is, our society demands a separation of church and state to function properly, and many religions get around that through their tax exemptions. An example would be the mega churches out of the US that subscribe the the perversion that is the “gospel of prosperity”, effectively the opposite of Christ’s teachings. While on a small scale, tax exemption seems ok...
...many of these large institutions specifically use tax exemption for obscene profit...which they often dump directly into politics.
Brian Cohen
@Troy Mann
What an absurd argument.
All adults in Canada pay taxes; why do ONLY catholic or “christian” schools publicly funded??
People who do not go to church pay taxes; why should we pay for YOUR kid to go to a religious school?
You want your kid to go to a religious school, no problem;YOU pay for it just like parents of kids belonging to all other religious have to.
What an absurd argument.
All adults in Canada pay taxes; why do ONLY catholic or “christian” schools publicly funded??
People who do not go to church pay taxes; why should we pay for YOUR kid to go to a religious school?
You want your kid to go to a religious school, no problem;YOU pay for it just like parents of kids belonging to all other religious have to.
Troy Mann
@Matt Thuaii "If it is
receiving public funding, but pays no taxes, the institution is
receiving benefit from taxes it isn’t paying"
The people pay taxes with in the church
The people send their children to these schools
The people pay taxes with in the church
The people send their children to these schools
Troy Mann
@Matt Thuaii "mega churches out of the US "
I live in Canada
I live in Canada
Troy Mann
@Brian Cohen
If any religious school wants to follow the government based curriculum they should be funded equally
If any religious school wants to follow the government based curriculum they should be funded equally
David Fletcher
@Troy Mann
Religious schools should be funded equally provided they follow the government based curriculum AND refrain from all forms of exclusion and discrimination.
Religious schools should be funded equally provided they follow the government based curriculum AND refrain from all forms of exclusion and discrimination.
Wendy Suiter
@Troy Mann Taxes pay for,
among other things, public education. Public education benefits all of
us whether we have children or not. Public education should be exactly
that: public. Any kind of education above and beyond what is
universally available to all of our children - including religious
education - should be the responsibility of the parents. Public schools
are still available to these kids whether their parents choose to
utilize them or not.
Ernie Smith
@Troy Mann We all pay taxes
to provide basic minimum services to all Canadians regardless of
religion etc. If your religion or beliefs do not allow you to
participate in these services that is your choice. The rest of us should
not have to subsidize an additional system.
Jim LaPalmier
@Mike Hayley
Hear ! Hear !
Hear ! Hear !
Brian Cohen
@Troy Mann
Why are religious schools receiving ANY public funds??
You dance around the issue with nonsense like "because we pay taxes".
Either fund all religious schools, or better yet, fund none of them.
Why are religious schools receiving ANY public funds??
You dance around the issue with nonsense like "because we pay taxes".
Either fund all religious schools, or better yet, fund none of them.
Zahava Goldfinkel
@Mike Hayley
Some of those tax dollars are from devil worshippers, whom their LORD, Satan the Fallen Morningstar, hath made unspeakably wealthy.
They deserve a say...
٩(◕‿◕｡)۶ All hail Satan, y'all.
Some of those tax dollars are from devil worshippers, whom their LORD, Satan the Fallen Morningstar, hath made unspeakably wealthy.
They deserve a say...
٩(◕‿◕｡)۶ All hail Satan, y'all.
Jim McAlpine
@Troy Mann - then they should
also follow the secular laws that govern the conduct of the teachers in
that school. That is what this entire discussion is about.
Samual Johnston
@Mike Hayley I do kinda
agree in theory BUT to be practical they do save us tax payers a lot of
money and people that do work there know what they are signing on for
because they literally sign a contract stating all of these rules.
Janie Veston
@Troy Mann Yep like the
Catholic Church is "non" profit. That's why they own billions of
dollars in real estate. and the vatican has such opulence that it would
make you puke! The sooner they tax religion, the better the world will
be.
Matt Thuaii
@Troy Mann
I’m sorry, I must not have been clear. “The people” can send their kids to these religious institutions if they want, but the taxes they pay go into public funds, and public funds should not be used to support religious institutions that teach things counter to what is in the public interest...
...i.e., outdated, two-three thousand year old relationship and gender norms based on misguided interpretations of ancient teachings...which almost always cause harm to the very public many of these institutions claim to be trying to “save”.
I’m sorry, I must not have been clear. “The people” can send their kids to these religious institutions if they want, but the taxes they pay go into public funds, and public funds should not be used to support religious institutions that teach things counter to what is in the public interest...
...i.e., outdated, two-three thousand year old relationship and gender norms based on misguided interpretations of ancient teachings...which almost always cause harm to the very public many of these institutions claim to be trying to “save”.
Samual Johnston
@Matt Thuaii I agree to a point if it was 100% funding - but this system saves us a ton of money - that is why it is in place
ALEX Chiasson
@Troy Mann Of course the
whole point of the current New World order is to destabilize the masses
starting with religious persecution of the free citizens.
Matt Thuaii
@Troy Mann
That was an example. Are there mega churches in Canada? Yes, there are. Are there churches that exploit their tax free status in Canada for profit? Yes, there are. Is this church one of those? Maybe...maybe not...
...but they definitely should not be teaching religious views and enforcing religious rules with non-religious secular public money.
That was an example. Are there mega churches in Canada? Yes, there are. Are there churches that exploit their tax free status in Canada for profit? Yes, there are. Is this church one of those? Maybe...maybe not...
...but they definitely should not be teaching religious views and enforcing religious rules with non-religious secular public money.
Matt Thuaii
@Samual Johnston
If you’re referring to the “charter/private school funded with public money” model, tell you what...
...get back to me about all the money we’re saving in a decade or two when the social and educational chickens come home to roost.
If you’re referring to the “charter/private school funded with public money” model, tell you what...
...get back to me about all the money we’re saving in a decade or two when the social and educational chickens come home to roost.
Samual Johnston
@Matt Thuaii private semi
private religious schools have been around for a long time in Canada -
we can survive it - probably a small percentage going to those schools
are actually on board with the total religious teachings - they are
there because their parents put them there and they put them there for
the most part because they offer a very good education and they get into
college
Alex Forbes
@Mike Hayley Schools shouldn't be publicly funded at all. Socialist indoctrination institutions.
Lori Cameron
@Mike Hayley
You will have to open up constitution to do that. Good luck!
You will have to open up constitution to do that. Good luck!
colin smith
@Mike Hayley
Exactly!
They say these schools save the public system money is bunk. They are not private schools they are public schools that specialize in something. If they want to call themselves private school they need to accept no public money.
Exactly!
They say these schools save the public system money is bunk. They are not private schools they are public schools that specialize in something. If they want to call themselves private school they need to accept no public money.
Jack Adam
@Mike Hayley Religion needs
to be kept on a very short leash. They are just dying to control our
lives and tell us how to live. All for our own good you understand. To
"save" us. Religion is always 2 steps away from going all Taliban on us.
So stop funding their schools.
Alex Forbes
@Jack Adam And the government isn't controlling our lives?
david mccaig
@Mike Hayley
"Surrey Christian School " There's the problem, not sex. Claustrophobic , intolerant, inflexible Christian schools that teach science fiction as fact to young inquiring minds, that's the true offense.
"Surrey Christian School " There's the problem, not sex. Claustrophobic , intolerant, inflexible Christian schools that teach science fiction as fact to young inquiring minds, that's the true offense.
And a bunch mo as usual
Chris Spear
@Onager Smith Churches pay HST, source decustions for staff, etc. so there is a direct benefit to the community.
That said;
1) I'm willing to pay taxes for my church if museums, art centers, universities and YCMA are willing to pay.
2) Most of the above wouldn't show enough profit to pay the equivalent of a single worker's tax bill
That said;
1) I'm willing to pay taxes for my church if museums, art centers, universities and YCMA are willing to pay.
2) Most of the above wouldn't show enough profit to pay the equivalent of a single worker's tax bill
Joe Renaud
@David Fletcher
Yep - render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. When you pay the piper to you get to call the tune. If they accept public money then they have to conform to public rules. If they want to step outside of that, and apparently they are allowed, then they can fund themselves 100%.
Yep - render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. When you pay the piper to you get to call the tune. If they accept public money then they have to conform to public rules. If they want to step outside of that, and apparently they are allowed, then they can fund themselves 100%.
Edward (E) Merij
Maybe they are just platonic, lol.
Richard Ade
@Mike Hayley "Zero tax
dollars should go to any private school....especially religious schools.
Churches don't pay taxes, so they should fund their own schools."
Church members pay taxes.
Church members pay taxes.
Richard Ade
@Joe Renaud People of faith
are also part of the public and have a right to have their tax dollars
support these kinds of schools if they so wish. Live and let live. If
you want to create atheist schools, I would totally support you and you
have a right to want your own tax dollars to support that.
Larry Langer
@Mike Hayley Finally some sense. Lock her up!!!
Irv Millar
@Richard Ade Pay for your own
religious teachings. Maybe dip into the tax free collection plate and
pony up some of that cash to reinforce your followers beliefs. As for
the secular system, hands off, you are draining our dollars for your
personal choices.
stevebrace
@Troy Mann
Our constitution declares freedom to choose religion. If I start my own church of the flying spaghetti monster, as a taxpayer, I demand your taxes fund my FSM school. Let me know when this passes, I have big plans....
Our constitution declares freedom to choose religion. If I start my own church of the flying spaghetti monster, as a taxpayer, I demand your taxes fund my FSM school. Let me know when this passes, I have big plans....
Guy Stone
@Mike Hayley. Not sure of
outside of BC but here they get half the money so it saves taxpayers
half the money.... more money for public students.
Joe Renaud
@Richard Ade
I am not saying that they cannot have these schools but if they wish to have public funding then they need to conform to the rules of our society. They currently enjoy exceptions to charter rights on religious grounds. Generally I do not like the idea that some segment of society can violate charger rights but accept that there can be exceptions. It is not unreasonable to insist that those exceptions end once they accept public money.
I am not saying that they cannot have these schools but if they wish to have public funding then they need to conform to the rules of our society. They currently enjoy exceptions to charter rights on religious grounds. Generally I do not like the idea that some segment of society can violate charger rights but accept that there can be exceptions. It is not unreasonable to insist that those exceptions end once they accept public money.
Jules Graham
@Mike Hayley This Christian and active church member totally agrees with you. No public funds for any religious schools.
Jules Graham
@Matt Thuaii We don't have
separation of church and state embedded in Canadian laws. You're
thinking of the US. Which doesn't follow its own laws, but that's a
whole other story- and not this story.
Brent Grywinski
If the churches have the
right to discriminate against certain individuals, then they need to
stop taking public funds from the government totally and fund the school
from parents 100%. If these religious schools want government funding,
they need to abide by provincial human rights codes.
David Amos
@Brent Grywinski Funding or not they need to abide by human rights codes
Troy Mann
@Brent Grywinski
Then the parents of the children going to these schools should pay taxes.
The funding these schools get is less than standard institutional schools, get rid of them then you pay higher taxes or divert money from elsewhere
Then the parents of the children going to these schools should pay taxes.
The funding these schools get is less than standard institutional schools, get rid of them then you pay higher taxes or divert money from elsewhere
David Amos
@Troy Mann Methinks that is just another standard strawman argument of yours N'esy Pas?
Myles Grant
Before 1977, private schools
in BC received zero public dollars. Then Socred Bill Bennett got into
power and discovered he could win Socred seats in the Fraser Valley by
funding Christian schools with public money. The Fraser Valley has been
a reliable BCSocred/BCLIBERAL power base ever since. Works with all
private schools, not just the Christian ones.
Irv Millar
@Myles Grant A separate and
distinct class of people being generated to impress their system of
beliefs on all others. Graduating discrimination one year at a time.
John London
@Brent Grywinski
The catholic club in Ontario has its own school system where they are allowed to discriminate against LGBT staff and students. They neither deserve nor should receive one nickel of public funding.
The catholic club in Ontario has its own school system where they are allowed to discriminate against LGBT staff and students. They neither deserve nor should receive one nickel of public funding.
Toni Scarfone
@John London
Two things,
1) Their are two separate school systems in the province of Ontario; Roman Catholic, and Protestant.
2) The Separate system in Ontario hires a entire cross section of employees; Straight, Gay, Trans, etc.
Than being said, I'd like to see funding end for these systems.
Two things,
1) Their are two separate school systems in the province of Ontario; Roman Catholic, and Protestant.
2) The Separate system in Ontario hires a entire cross section of employees; Straight, Gay, Trans, etc.
Than being said, I'd like to see funding end for these systems.
Samual Johnston
@Brent Grywinski are they
really discriminating ? they sign a contract stating the rules so
where is the discrimination? I think most people can live with this
because of the money it saves the tax payers - though I do agree
churches should have to pay taxes and not for profit orgs need to be
looked at a lot closer.
Patrick Smyth
@Toni Scarfone
" Their are two separate school systems in the province of Ontario; Roman Catholic, and Protestant."
no Roman Catholic and SECULAR PUBLIC, not "protestant"...... Get it straight.
"The Separate system in Ontario hires a entire cross section of employees; Straight, Gay, Trans, etc. "
Don't care, religion has NO PLACE in schools. Religion belongs in one's home and place of worship.and NOT in publicly funded institutions.
" Their are two separate school systems in the province of Ontario; Roman Catholic, and Protestant."
no Roman Catholic and SECULAR PUBLIC, not "protestant"...... Get it straight.
"The Separate system in Ontario hires a entire cross section of employees; Straight, Gay, Trans, etc. "
Don't care, religion has NO PLACE in schools. Religion belongs in one's home and place of worship.and NOT in publicly funded institutions.
Alex Forbes
@Brent Grywinski So you are
violating freely made contracts? So much for freedoms in this country.
Statism is all the rage these days.
Ben Bandalaut
@Brent Grywinski
Yet they don't mind accepting money from the government (taxpayers).
Most of whom they wouldn't accept as either students or teachers at their ethically pristine school.
If they don't approve of someone's (taxpayer's) lifestyle they shouldn't accept the money that person's (taxpayer's) lifestyles produced.
Yet they don't mind accepting money from the government (taxpayers).
Most of whom they wouldn't accept as either students or teachers at their ethically pristine school.
If they don't approve of someone's (taxpayer's) lifestyle they shouldn't accept the money that person's (taxpayer's) lifestyles produced.
Alex Forbes
@Ben Bandalaut Exactly! Defund everything!
Joe Renaud
@Alex Forbes
A contract that violates your rights or breaks the law is null and void.
A contract that violates your rights or breaks the law is null and void.
Joe Renaud
@Samual Johnston
In this particular case this woman entered into this contract while under conformance and then her personal circumstances changed. Should she be denied the right to put food on the table? What if she was a single-income earner with children? There is a hierarchy to rights. Your right to free speech or religious freedom ends when it affects my life or liberty. This is not the US
In this particular case this woman entered into this contract while under conformance and then her personal circumstances changed. Should she be denied the right to put food on the table? What if she was a single-income earner with children? There is a hierarchy to rights. Your right to free speech or religious freedom ends when it affects my life or liberty. This is not the US
David Allan
@Troy Mann
"The funding these schools get is less than standard institutional schools, get rid of them then you pay higher taxes or divert money from elsewhere"
Why should I pay for your religion?
"The funding these schools get is less than standard institutional schools, get rid of them then you pay higher taxes or divert money from elsewhere"
Why should I pay for your religion?
David Allan
@Samual Johnston
"are they really discriminating ? they sign a contract stating the rules so where is the discrimination?"
You need to learn what discrimination is.
That you think it's totally fine for a country club to exclude blacks and Jews just because they put it on paper is disturbing.
"are they really discriminating ? they sign a contract stating the rules so where is the discrimination?"
You need to learn what discrimination is.
That you think it's totally fine for a country club to exclude blacks and Jews just because they put it on paper is disturbing.
David Allan
@Alex Forbes
"So you are violating freely made contracts?"
An illegal contract already violates itself.
"So you are violating freely made contracts?"
An illegal contract already violates itself.
Toni Scarfone
@Toni Scarfone
Also having worked (no longer) in the separate system in Ontario I notices
1) a lot of non straight employees
2) a lot of common law marriages
3) a lot of adulterous employees; principles, teachers, etc.
A lot of pots calling the kettles black.
End funding for separate schools.
Also having worked (no longer) in the separate system in Ontario I notices
1) a lot of non straight employees
2) a lot of common law marriages
3) a lot of adulterous employees; principles, teachers, etc.
A lot of pots calling the kettles black.
End funding for separate schools.
Richard Ade
@Brent Grywinski It is not
discriminatory to adhere to the tenets of your faith especially when
those tenets are not harming anyone. Don't you like a society where
everyone tells the truth, are faithful to their spouses, don't cheat
others, etc?
Bob Fuchs
@Toni Scarfone
In Ontario, the Separate school system is Catholic (with the exception of a single Protestant school in Penetanguishene). The Public system is secular and has no religious affiliation.
Regardless, religious-affiliated schools should receive no public funding whatsoever. There is no objective argument in favour of it. If it weren't for historical vagaries and the self-interested voting power of religious communities, publicly-funded religious schools would have vanished from Canada long ago.
It's long overdue for that to happen. If parents want to send their children to religious-focused schools, so be it. But they can pay for it.
In Ontario, the Separate school system is Catholic (with the exception of a single Protestant school in Penetanguishene). The Public system is secular and has no religious affiliation.
Regardless, religious-affiliated schools should receive no public funding whatsoever. There is no objective argument in favour of it. If it weren't for historical vagaries and the self-interested voting power of religious communities, publicly-funded religious schools would have vanished from Canada long ago.
It's long overdue for that to happen. If parents want to send their children to religious-focused schools, so be it. But they can pay for it.
Brent Grywinski
@Richard Ade
Where is this utopia you speak of?
Where is this utopia you speak of?
Jonny Elleven
@Brent Grywinski
and they should have to pay taxes.
and they should have to pay taxes.
Eric Johansson
Religious orders of any kind should receive a whopping zero percent of tax payer dollars.
David Amos
@Eric Johansson I agree
Troy Mann
@Eric Johansson
They provide a service to the public and should be compensated for that service.
They provide a service to the public and should be compensated for that service.
David Amos
@Troy Mann Yea Right
Trishia Allard
@Troy Mann . Religion
provides a disservice to society. And all that "charity" they claim,
it's simply marketing to attract believers and make themselves look
good. As for the "services" some offer, it's service that should come
from government, not biased churches.
Denny O'Brien
@Troy Mann then they should be held to the same nondiscriminatory rules
Troy Mann
@Trishia Allard "Religion provides a disservice to society"
How judgmental of you
How judgmental of you
Troy Mann
@Denny O'Brien
So we should scrap the Charter of Rights then
So we should scrap the Charter of Rights then
Samual Johnston
@Eric Johansson except in the
case the tax payer is saving a ton of money and no one is forcing
anyone to work here to go to school here -
Alex Forbes
@Eric Johansson No institution should.
Wendy Suiter
@Samual Johnston How exactly
is the tax payer saving any money by funding religious schools? Have
you been to a public school lately? The buildings are old and in
disrepair. Most don't have air conditioning and most make use of
portables because there isn't enough room in the main building. If so
much taxpayer money wasn't diverted to religious schools, perhaps we
could afford to address the problems in our public schools.
colin smith
@Troy Mann
They are compensated for that via the tax free status they enjoy.
They are compensated for that via the tax free status they enjoy.
Alex Forbes
@Wendy Suiter Religious schools are my public schools and I would rather have MY taxes going there.
David Amos
@Troy Mann "So we should scrap the Charter of Rights then"
Methinks "The Powers that Be" should learn how to uphold the document that they created that Quebec has a little trouble believing in N'esy Pas?
Methinks "The Powers that Be" should learn how to uphold the document that they created that Quebec has a little trouble believing in N'esy Pas?
Earl Higgins
@Eric Johansson
100% behind that, religion is your personal belief, pay for it yourself.
100% behind that, religion is your personal belief, pay for it yourself.
Aaron Jones
""it was sad" to lose Vande Kraats as an employee because she was a strong teacher."
... this is why you fail. Canada really shouldn't have ANY religious schools. Public education needs to be completely secular. Keep your "faith" at home.
... this is why you fail. Canada really shouldn't have ANY religious schools. Public education needs to be completely secular. Keep your "faith" at home.
Brian Hughes
@Aaron Jones
I strongly agree. Segregation of children based on religion is not just wrong, it's harmful to society.
I strongly agree. Segregation of children based on religion is not just wrong, it's harmful to society.
Mark Hammer
@Aaron Jones
Yes and no. Our eldest attended a religious school, after moving to a big city from a small town where there were only a handful of kids of his religion. He needed to feel like he was "normal", and being surrounded by his religion and culture filled that need.
For kids like him, the additional language and liturgical curriculum can't fit in a standard public school 9:00AM-3:15PM timetable, without shortchanging the regular provincial curriculum. So the solution, where numbers warrant, is to have all the kids with those needs in a faith-based school that incorporates both the provincial and additional curriculum into a longer school day. We paid regular taxes that fund pubic schools as well as a substantial portion of the tuition for the parochial school.
But this is simply a solution for accomplishing something that is impractical to do within the public system, and not a shunning of the public system or a desire to reject the values of public education or the society at large, and segregate children. Most kids at his school switched over to the public system after grade 6.
So it's not a question of *whether* to have religious/faith-based schools, but rather their objectives and policies. I don't have a bone to pick with religious schools any more than I have a bone to pick with "magnet" schools in the public system, that specialize in this or that stream (e.g., the arts, athletics, etc.). Just use the specialization of the school curriculum as a means to do something better, or more efficiently, rather than to segregate kids and reject those dissimilar from you.
Yes and no. Our eldest attended a religious school, after moving to a big city from a small town where there were only a handful of kids of his religion. He needed to feel like he was "normal", and being surrounded by his religion and culture filled that need.
For kids like him, the additional language and liturgical curriculum can't fit in a standard public school 9:00AM-3:15PM timetable, without shortchanging the regular provincial curriculum. So the solution, where numbers warrant, is to have all the kids with those needs in a faith-based school that incorporates both the provincial and additional curriculum into a longer school day. We paid regular taxes that fund pubic schools as well as a substantial portion of the tuition for the parochial school.
But this is simply a solution for accomplishing something that is impractical to do within the public system, and not a shunning of the public system or a desire to reject the values of public education or the society at large, and segregate children. Most kids at his school switched over to the public system after grade 6.
So it's not a question of *whether* to have religious/faith-based schools, but rather their objectives and policies. I don't have a bone to pick with religious schools any more than I have a bone to pick with "magnet" schools in the public system, that specialize in this or that stream (e.g., the arts, athletics, etc.). Just use the specialization of the school curriculum as a means to do something better, or more efficiently, rather than to segregate kids and reject those dissimilar from you.
Tom Barry
@Brian Hughes
". Segregation of children based on religion is not just wrong, it's harmful to society."
It breeds division.
". Segregation of children based on religion is not just wrong, it's harmful to society."
It breeds division.
David Amos
@Aaron Jones I agree
Troy Mann
@Aaron Jones
It isn't public education it is religious education, the system that brought public education to Canada.
Who are you to tell anyone what to do?
This woman signed a contract and failed to live up to the agreement, the school lived up to their end.
It isn't public education it is religious education, the system that brought public education to Canada.
Who are you to tell anyone what to do?
This woman signed a contract and failed to live up to the agreement, the school lived up to their end.
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Troy Mann "It isn't public education it is religious education, the system that brought public education to Canada"
Methinks that the same system that tortured the indigenous folks N'esy Pas?
Methinks that the same system that tortured the indigenous folks N'esy Pas?
Aaron Jones
@Troy Mann Who am I? A tax
payer and I am not comfortable with my tax dollars going to a school
system that discriminates against others based on religious beliefs.
Daniel Bunbury
@Aaron Jones - I am a tax
payer too. Why shouldn't *my* tax dollars be directed towards the school
I choose for my child? Why should *my* tax dollars only be allowed to
be directed towards *your* school? Why should *your* opinion regarding
secular education be imposed on *me*?
Furthermore, "discrimination" is a big word in this context. Lots of non-Christian parents send their children to Christian private schools, because of the discipline and education standards. They clearly aren't barred by those schools.
Furthermore, "discrimination" is a big word in this context. Lots of non-Christian parents send their children to Christian private schools, because of the discipline and education standards. They clearly aren't barred by those schools.
Troy Mann
@Aaron Jones
I am not comfortable with a lot of things that my tax dollars go to, shall our tax dollars only go to things we are "ALL" comfortable with.
i suspect you believe church should have no say in government, but yet you believe government should have say in church...
I am not comfortable with a lot of things that my tax dollars go to, shall our tax dollars only go to things we are "ALL" comfortable with.
i suspect you believe church should have no say in government, but yet you believe government should have say in church...
Samual Johnston
@Aaron Jones not really -
when you think about it the teacher signed a contract and agreed to the
rules - she broke the contract and failed to report it -- we may not
agree with the contract but it is legal as far as we can tell --- so
since no one is being forced to work here and they do save us lots of
money I think we can live with it no?
Irv Millar
@Troy Mann You keep saying
church. There are other religions that do not worship in a church. It
seem to be that you think there are no others but your kith and kin. An
awakening is in order. There are other systems of belief that do not
inveigh themselves to governments, to become government and then to
oppress all who are not of their faith?
Alex Forbes
@Aaron Jones Secular as in
teaching unproven (macro)evolution as fact? Atoms to man theories that
completely materializes all morality into obscurity? Secular
indoctrination camps are what public schools are.
Aaron Jones
@Samual Johnston Just because
it is in a contract doesn't make it legal. I find it hard to believe
that someone has to sign away a basic Canadian charter right so they can
land a teaching job at a catholic school.
The worst part of all of this is that the school and superintendent admit that she was a great teacher and yet use this excuse to not renew her contract. Can these people really have children best interests in mind when they fire a great teacher because they want to discriminate against her lifestyle?
The worst part of all of this is that the school and superintendent admit that she was a great teacher and yet use this excuse to not renew her contract. Can these people really have children best interests in mind when they fire a great teacher because they want to discriminate against her lifestyle?
David Amos
@Troy Mann "It isn't public education it is religious education, the system that brought public education to Canada"
Methinks that is the same system that upset so many indigenous folks N'esy Pas?
Methinks that is the same system that upset so many indigenous folks N'esy Pas?
Lori Cameron
@Aaron Jones
She was free to work in the public system, so why choose one that has a moral requirement if she didnt like it?! She had the freedom to choose, and is now exacting revenge on her former employer. she had no place in a faith-based system!
She was free to work in the public system, so why choose one that has a moral requirement if she didnt like it?! She had the freedom to choose, and is now exacting revenge on her former employer. she had no place in a faith-based system!
Sandy Gillis
@Lori Cameron
Each and every Canadian citizen has the right to be included in a publicly funded institution. Discriminate on your own dime.
Each and every Canadian citizen has the right to be included in a publicly funded institution. Discriminate on your own dime.
Charles Baker
Private schools shouldn't get a dime of taxpayers' money. And churches should not get tax breaks or reduced property taxes.
We seriously need to separate church and state.
We seriously need to separate church and state.
@Charles Baker then atheist "charitable" instituitions would have to be treated the same.
Darrel Braun
@Easton kerr
Please name an atheist charitable institution so I can immediately make my tax deductible donation.
Please name an atheist charitable institution so I can immediately make my tax deductible donation.
Brent Grywinski
@Darrel Braun
Christopher Hitchens said he donated to Oxfam before he died.
Christopher Hitchens said he donated to Oxfam before he died.
John Jacobs
@Easton kerr
Atheism is not a religion
Atheism is not a religion
paul bryce
@Charles Baker
Can I stop paying my taxes which fund your Marxist public school which I dont send my children to?
Can I stop paying my taxes which fund your Marxist public school which I dont send my children to?
John Watson
@paul bryce
Please tell me which schools are "Marxist" so I can go and volunteer.
Please tell me which schools are "Marxist" so I can go and volunteer.
Michal Scur
@paul bryce I dont think the word Marxist means what you think it means...
.
John Watson
@Michal Scur
Or he has no clue what goes on in a school. Likely homeschooled himself.
Or he has no clue what goes on in a school. Likely homeschooled himself.
Darrel Braun
@Brent Grywinski
Do you know of any other charities that Christopher Hitchens turned into atheist charitable institutions by making a donation?
Do you know of any other charities that Christopher Hitchens turned into atheist charitable institutions by making a donation?
Tom Barry
@John Watson
"Please tell me which schools are "Marxist" so I can go and volunteer."
Universities.
"Please tell me which schools are "Marxist" so I can go and volunteer."
Universities.
Peter Day
@paul bryce It is snowing here. I can't wait for that Marxist snow plow to come by.
John Watson
@Tom Barry
Not the university I went to. Be more specific.
Not the university I went to. Be more specific.
Tom Barry
@John Watson
Easy search.
Easy search.
David Amos
@Charles Baker "We seriously need to separate church and state"
Methinks that is never gonna happen as long as we continue to pay homage to the "Protector of the Faith" of the Church of England N'esy Pas?
Methinks that is never gonna happen as long as we continue to pay homage to the "Protector of the Faith" of the Church of England N'esy Pas?
Troy Mann
@Charles Baker
Why do people who tell the loudest about separation of church and state always demand the state impose upon the church?
Churches dont get tax breaks, they are treated like every other not for profit organization.
Taxpaying parents send their children to private schools, so why should they not get a benefit from that?
Why do people who tell the loudest about separation of church and state always demand the state impose upon the church?
Churches dont get tax breaks, they are treated like every other not for profit organization.
Taxpaying parents send their children to private schools, so why should they not get a benefit from that?
David Amos
@Troy Mann Methinks private
schools serve the wealthy people who do not wish their children to mix
with ordinary folks N'esy Pas?
Troy Mann
@David Amos
Christian schools do not have very high tuition fees
Christian schools do not have very high tuition fees
Denny O'Brien
@Easton kerr such as?
Daniel Bunbury
@Charles Baker - Separation
of church and state simply means the State does not dictate what people
must believe - i.e. there is no State-sanctioned church.
So the ability to school ones child according to ones own beliefs, *is* separation of church and state.
And if *your* tax dollars go to fund your child's (public) school, why should the state deny *my* tax dollars going to fund my child's private school?
So the ability to school ones child according to ones own beliefs, *is* separation of church and state.
And if *your* tax dollars go to fund your child's (public) school, why should the state deny *my* tax dollars going to fund my child's private school?
Sandy Gillis
@Daniel Bunbury
The only institutions which should be receiving public funds to operate
are ones willing to operate as though they were public institutions. A
public institution would be in violation of Charter rights if they tried
to make a person's legal relationships a qualification for employment,
and any institution receiving public funds or other material support to
operate should be held to the same standard. As to the "why shouldn't my tax dollars be used for my choice of school" argument: the taxes collected from you by the federal and provincial governments are not earmarked by the dollar. The funds go into general revenue, and education is one of the things it pays for. Public education systems in Canada are designed to allow all students of any background to have an opportunity to succeed (they're still not perfect, but the goal is in line with the Charter). If you decide that you don't want to avail yourself of the services that your tax dollars help pay for, that's your choice. Pay for it yourself.
The same as you can't opt out of your taxes going towards policing because you hired private security, and you can't choose not to pay taxes towards the healthcare system because you're willing to go to a foreign country and pay to skip the line, you can't just opt out of being a Canadian citizen when it's convenient.
Alex Forbes
@Charles Baker That's exactly what is being done here. They have separate laws and regulations. Don't like it, stay out of it.
David Amos
@Troy Mann "Christian schools do not have very high tuition fees"
Methinks many would agree that any fee is too high when it comes to schools supported by taxpayer funds N'esy Pas?
Methinks many would agree that any fee is too high when it comes to schools supported by taxpayer funds N'esy Pas?
John Watson
Common law marriage is
acknowledged in this country. This is yet another example of an employer
ignoring the law with the excuse of "religion." I'm upset that my tax
dollars go to such a place and I shall inform my MLA of that. Hope
everybody who feels that way will do the same.
David Amos
@John Watson Good luck with that
Troy Mann
@John Watson
So "Rights" based on our Charter and Constitution are now considered "excuses"
So "Rights" based on our Charter and Constitution are now considered "excuses"
David Amos
@Troy Mann Methinks whereas
you laugh too hard as I defend my rights under the charter you have no
right whatsoever to use it in a dumb argument N'esy Pas?
Troy Mann
@David Amos
Not sure what rights you are trying to defend as you attempt to take away my right of freedom of religion and freedom of conscience
Not sure what rights you are trying to defend as you attempt to take away my right of freedom of religion and freedom of conscience
Denny O'Brien
@Troy Mann you cam have religion free of my tax dollars
Troy Mann
@Denny O'Brien
You can have education free of my tax dollars
You can have education free of my tax dollars
Brian Cohen
@Troy Mann
Why should YOU get a pass on paying taxes to fund public schools??
We, as in every single other Canadian taxpayer have to pay taxes to fund YOUR religious school you hypocrite.
Why should YOU get a pass on paying taxes to fund public schools??
We, as in every single other Canadian taxpayer have to pay taxes to fund YOUR religious school you hypocrite.
David Amos
@Troy Mann "Not sure what
rights you are trying to defend as you attempt to take away my right of
freedom of religion and freedom of conscience"
Methinks you religious dudes are quite upset by the fact that I sued Cardinal Law in Beantown in 2002. Now that I sued the "Protector of the Faith" of the Church of England while running in the election of the 42nd Parliament and asserting my rights under the Charter you wish to pay dumb N'esy Pas?
Methinks you religious dudes are quite upset by the fact that I sued Cardinal Law in Beantown in 2002. Now that I sued the "Protector of the Faith" of the Church of England while running in the election of the 42nd Parliament and asserting my rights under the Charter you wish to pay dumb N'esy Pas?
Alex Forbes
@John Watson Laws aren't
infallible. It's illegal to harm animals unnecessarily. But when you
tell people eating them is unnecessary, they decry it as silly. Laws are
not the moral standard. God is.
Alex Forbes
@Sandy Gillis Yes, I am quoting Taliban...good grief.
Michael Dorosh
@John Watson Yeah, God forbid private institutions should set moral standards for their employees.
Sandy Gillis
@Alex Forbes
They also think their interpretation of your God is the standard by which all should live. The moral standards of others is flawed, according to any religious fundamentalist. How is your way better than theirs?
They also think their interpretation of your God is the standard by which all should live. The moral standards of others is flawed, according to any religious fundamentalist. How is your way better than theirs?
Rhea Montgomery
Make no mistake about it,
Religion is Man made, and written in order to suppress people. We are
not born with any misgivings about anyone. It has been known for a long
time that the easiest way to manipulate the masses is through fear.
Religion works that angle in a BIG way. Stephen Hawking said there is No
God. I think I will take his word for it. This Teacher should enjoy her
love and not feel any misgivings whatsoever about what comes naturally.
David Amos
@Rhea Montgomery If God did not exist, we would have to invent him: Voltaire
Troy Mann
@Rhea Montgomery "Make no mistake about it, Religion is Man made, and written in order to suppress people."
Prove it
Prove it
David Amos
@Troy Mann Methinks I just did byway of a deep thinking French man N'esy Pas? Now show me your god.
Troy Mann
@David Amos
I am not the one making a statement of fact here
I am not the one making a statement of fact here
Manny Fredrick
@David Amos Youthinks not.
Jim LaPalmier
@Rhea Montgomery
Religion is all about power, control, manipulation, and ultimately that which ensures 'all of the above': MONEY.
Religion is all about power, control, manipulation, and ultimately that which ensures 'all of the above': MONEY.
David Amos
@Manny Fredrick Methinks
therefore I am However it is your god that I my doubts about because you
people have failed to introduce us yet expect folks to have faith in
your beliefs N'esy Pas?
Alex Forbes
@Rhea Montgomery So you will take a MAN's word after saying you will discount other alleged man-made words? Okay then...
Rhea Montgomery
@Troy Mann I don't have to
Prove it. Stephen Hawking did for me. And there's Science. The world was
not Created 2000 years ago. Adam Did Not make Eve from his Rib. Noah
did Not shove 2 of every animal in an ark he built (or if he did half
would have eaten the other half), etc etc etc. All make believe. It's
interesting, but not real.
Rhea Montgomery
@David Amos deep.
Rhea Montgomery
@Jim LaPalmier exactly. Still
is. The Catholic Church has a ridiculous amount of real estate and
money, ridiculous. Where is it all? Why aren't they feeding people?
Taking care of the homeless? Power. Money. Control (a control they are
starting to lose I'm happy to say).
Rhea Montgomery
@Alex Forbes I respect his
genius. But like I also said "Science". Do you believe that Eve and
therefor All woman, come from a man's rib? Or does that seem
preposterous to you?
Alex Forbes
@Rhea Montgomery Even if you
believe in evolution, unless they were breeding humans in litters, there
would have been a "first" human...
Dennis Cooper
@Alex Forbes
Does that logic apply to gods as well? Created in gods image. What use did God have for a bellybutton?
Does that logic apply to gods as well? Created in gods image. What use did God have for a bellybutton?
David Amos
@Rhea Montgomery "deep."
And wide Google Federal Court File no T-15557-15 to see why
And wide Google Federal Court File no T-15557-15 to see why
Patrick Smyth
@Alex Forbes
"there would have been a "first" human..."
This shows how poorly some understand the theory of evolution and survival of the fittest.... Might as well say that before there was a chicken there was an egg that magically popped into existence.......
"there would have been a "first" human..."
This shows how poorly some understand the theory of evolution and survival of the fittest.... Might as well say that before there was a chicken there was an egg that magically popped into existence.......
Robert Storch
Religion has absolutely ZERO place in the Education System.
Story-tales and invisible sky daddy is for bedtime with the little ones, not for serious business like becoming productive, well-educated members of society.
Story-tales and invisible sky daddy is for bedtime with the little ones, not for serious business like becoming productive, well-educated members of society.
David Amos
@Robert Storch Methinks a little Zen wouldn't harm anyone and no doubt help with sky daddy's motorcycle maintenance N'esy Pas?
Troy Mann
@Robert Storch
Atheists and their superiority complex is showing once again
Atheists and their superiority complex is showing once again
David Amos
@Troy Mann Methinks you should have a look in the mirror N'esy Pas?
Troy Mann
@David Amos
Where have I personally attacked any person?
Where have I personally attacked any person?
mike wood
@Robert Storch then why are my children being forced to pray on a carpet to learn about "diversity"
Mark Wood
@mike wood
BULL!
BULL!
Brian Cohen
@Troy Mann
"Atheists and their superiority complex is showing once again"
Are "atheists" demanding the public pay for an atheist school board??
No??
Then what the bleep are you on about.
Your arguments are devoid of logic
"Atheists and their superiority complex is showing once again"
Are "atheists" demanding the public pay for an atheist school board??
No??
Then what the bleep are you on about.
Your arguments are devoid of logic
Jim McAlpine
@Troy Mann - it's doesn't
take a superiority complex to not believe in unicorns and leprechauns,
either. You may hate atheists because they are different than you,
because they don't believe in a bronze age story, etc., but that doesn't
mean atheists are the evil you've concocted in your mind.
David Amos
@Troy Mann "Where have I personally attacked any person?"
What am I chopped liver?
What am I chopped liver?
Ron Blackburn
Right wing Christians still living in the 1800s.
Troy Mann
@Ron Blackburn
I am a God loving Liberal with a graduate degree in engineering...
Thanks
I am a God loving Liberal with a graduate degree in engineering...
Thanks
Myles Grant
@Ron Blackburn And enjoying their publicly funded specialness and apartness.
Jim LaPalmier
@Ron Blackburn
Ahhh, the "good old days".
Ahhh, the "good old days".
Brian Cohen
@Troy Mann
Then one would expect you to have a much larger grasp on logic and reasoning.
Your posts show you do not
Then one would expect you to have a much larger grasp on logic and reasoning.
Your posts show you do not
David Amos
@Troy Mann I thought you were the bureaucrat with Vestcor
Alex Forbes
@Brian Cohen One would expect
people claiming religious people of being immoral to be more civil. But
your posts show that is not the case...
Rhea Montgomery
You don't even need to work
the 'discriminatory' angle. Just leave. Teachers are needed everywhere.
Religion is overrated and needs to just die off. I'm so fed up with the
hypocrisy of religion.
Rance Mohammet
@Rhea Montgomery She signed a contract
David Amos
@Rance Mohammet Therein lies the rub
@Rance Mohammet Signing a
contract that is discriminatory is the equivalent to signing your name
on a piece of tissue. You cannot sign away the rights of all Canadians
to suit a personal choice from a well organized, well heeled political
operation that uses religion to hide their money, while the unclean fund
their system of beliefs? Build your own schools on your religious lands
and pay your own bills. We are tired of supporting your nature in
action.
Patricia Henderson
@Rance Mohammet Yes, she
did. She was happy to sign up for the job under those conditions...then
was upset when she contravened them and there were consequences. I
feel sympathy for her, but she as one of their teachers perpetuated the
code, including expectations of teachers and moral instruction of
students. If nobody signed on for that moral code, that whole outfit
would collapse.
John London
@Patricia Henderson
Perhaps if she had not signed she would not have landed a job she needed?
Perhaps if she had not signed she would not have landed a job she needed?
Teacher shown door after Christian school discovers she had sex 'outside of a heterosexual marriage'
Education advocate questions why provinces fund schools that discriminate against employees
A long-time teacher at Surrey
Christian School in B.C. says she was told her contract would not be
renewed after school administrators discovered she was living with her
male partner, violating a clause in her employment contract that
forbids "any sexual activity outside of a heterosexual marriage."
"When you're enforcing a policy like this you have to ask a teacher questions like, 'Who do you live with? Where do you live? Are you sexually active? Are you pregnant? Are you gay?... It was humiliating," Stephanie Vande Kraats told Go Public, tearing up as she recalled the meetings two years ago that led to her resignation.
She's angry that her former employer receives half of its annual funding — $5 million — from the B.C. government when the school discriminates against employees.
Go
Public's Erica Johnson and teacher Stephanie Vande Kraats review a
Surrey Christian School contract that discriminates against employees
based on their marital status and sexual orientation. (Enzo Zanatta/CBC)
Surrey
Christian School is among hundreds of religious schools across the
country that receive public funding. Many are allowed to have
discriminatory hiring policies because they have religious exemptions
from human rights laws.
"It's enabling private schools that are using public money to operate to violate the human rights of their employees," says Patti Bacchus, who chaired the Vancouver School Board from 2008-14. "I think that's a big problem."
Vande Kraats says she was married when she signed the Surrey Christian School's employment contract, which included a community standards policy, banning employees from having sex outside of a heterosexual marriage.
More than a decade later, after she had divorced and was living with her common-law partner, school superintendent Dave Loewen called her to his office and asked questions about her personal life.
He told her she could work six more months until the end of her contract, but Vande Kraats says she felt she had to resign.
"I didn't want to continue in a place where I already felt humiliated and judged," she said. "It was traumatic for me."
She says she also felt pressured to exit quietly, because she needed a good letter of reference. She is now working at another school in the Vancouver area.
"I think there are a lot more people who have been hurt by these policies than just myself, and I know exactly why they're not speaking up. They need those references as much as I did," Vande Kraats says.
Surrey Christian School superintendent Dave Loewen told Go Public, "it was sad" to lose Vande Kraats as an employee because she was a strong teacher.
"Having to have a difficult conversation with someone about personal choices is not my favourite thing to do," he said.
Surrey
Christian School superintendent Dave Loewen says his school is
transparent about the lifestyle choices it expects staff to follow. (Erica Johnson/CBC)
He disagrees that the school's community standards policy is discriminatory.
"I think the word 'discriminates' is too strong of a word," said Loewen. "I don't think it's discriminatory because it's not a requirement for people to work here. It's invitational and we're transparent about our values."
Surrey Christian School is a member of the Federation of Independent School Associations (FISA), which told Go Public in an email, "Independent schools save taxpayers nearly $430 million a year in operating costs and many millions more in capital costs" because parents pay tuition.
FISA executive director Shawn Chisholm said teachers "have the choice" of moving to another school, an argument that exasperates Bacchus, who writes on education issues for the Georgia Straight newspaper.
"To suggest that you can choose to go work somewhere else ... really is undermining the whole point of having those kind of protections," she said. "People shouldn't have to face discrimination in this country based on their marital status or their gender identity."
Surrey Christian School is one of 35 schools that belong to the Society of Christian Schools in B.C., which provides its members a template for community standards policies that employees must follow.
Besides restrictions on sexual activity, there are recommended bans on things like using coarse language, public drunkenness and watching porn.
Surrey
Christian School is one of 35 B.C. Christian schools that receive
government funding while having policies that forbid sex outside a
heterosexual marriage. (Daniel Beauparlant/CBC)
Human
rights codes in provinces across Canada have similar exemptions
that allow religious schools to set their own policies, if they're based
on religious beliefs and their primary purpose is to promote the
interests of a religious group.
The defining legal case dates back to 1984, when the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in favour of a Catholic school that fired a teacher after she married a divorced man, saying non-profit religious institutions have the right to give preference to members of the group their organizations serve.
Challenges to those policies are few in number, and Go Public could not find any cases where employees had been successful in court.
In December, a former teacher and principal at a Catholic school took her case to the Alberta Human Rights Commission, alleging that she was pushed to quit because of her sexual orientation. That case is ongoing.
As a result of media reports, the Alberta government, which provided almost $1.7 billion in funding to Catholic schools last year, is now reviewing the employment contracts from all 16 Catholic school boards in the province.
A transgender man who was fired from a Catholic school in Alberta in 2008 lost his legal fight in 2017.
A Vancouver teacher decided not to pursue a legal case after she says she was pushed out of a Catholic school in 2010 when administrators discovered she was a lesbian after she asked for parental leave because her partner was having a baby.
Last June, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that B.C.'s Trinity Western University, an evangelical Christian school, could not get accreditation for a planned new law school because it has a policy demanding that students abstain from sex outside of heterosexual marriage — a code of conduct the court ruled to be discriminatory towards LGBT students.
"Interesting that staff weren't addressed in that ruling," says Vande Kraats, who told Go Public the Trinity Western decision prompted her to speak out about what had happened to her.
"I do wonder if the climate is changing now," she says.
When Vande Kraats asked the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal about her situation, she says she was dissuaded from filing a case.
"They were very sympathetic," she says, but told her that religious schools have the legal right to have discriminatory employment clauses.
Surrey Christian School receives 50 per cent of the per-pupil funding given to public schools within its district.
In 2017-18, the school received $5 million in public funds — a portion of almost $300 million the provincial government allocated to faith-based schools.
Public
education advocate Patti Bacchus says independent religious schools
that want to have 'discriminatory' hiring practices should not receive
government funding. (Dillon Hodgin/CBC)
Bacchus
argues that people who want alternatives to the public education system
can make that choice, but shouldn't have access to government funding.
"It's problematic to me that our provincial government in B.C. is providing funding to private schools that are including this kind of discriminatory language in employee contracts and discriminating against employees," she says.
Vande Kraats also wants the B.C. government to cut funding or demand religious schools change their employment policies.
Go Public requested an interview with B.C. Premier John Horgan, but a spokesperson referred our request to the Ministry of Education.
A ministry spokesperson declined the interview request, and also refused to explain why the province provides funding to faith-based schools with discriminatory policies.
Communications manager Sean Leslie sent a statement reiterating that B.C.'s Human Rights Code provides certain exemptions that allow schools to have policies like the one that led to Vande Kraats' termination.
Raji Mangat, a human rights lawyer with West Coast Women's Legal Education and Action Fund, says it may be time for the courts to re-examine the battle between religious rights and individual human rights.
"Society and our expectations around human rights and people's dignity change," Mangat says. "For instance, same sex marriage is now recognized.
Human
rights lawyer Raji Mangat says it may be time for the courts and
society to re-examine exemptions in the law that allow religious rights
to trump an individual's human rights. (Dillon Hodgin/CBC)
"There
are so many situations in which people are either forced to leave or
told their [employment] contract isn't going to be renewed for reasons I
think a lot of us, today, would find very troubling."
Vande Kraats hopes that speaking out will encourage provincial governments across the country to take a hard look at the funding provided to schools with discriminatory employment contracts.
"This is a dark secret for these religious independent schools," she says.
"What I've learned is that these policies are actually enforced. And they're enforced against people that have been long-time teachers who are respected. And it's very hurtful. I hope it changes."
"When you're enforcing a policy like this you have to ask a teacher questions like, 'Who do you live with? Where do you live? Are you sexually active? Are you pregnant? Are you gay?... It was humiliating," Stephanie Vande Kraats told Go Public, tearing up as she recalled the meetings two years ago that led to her resignation.
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She's angry that her former employer receives half of its annual funding — $5 million — from the B.C. government when the school discriminates against employees.
"It's enabling private schools that are using public money to operate to violate the human rights of their employees," says Patti Bacchus, who chaired the Vancouver School Board from 2008-14. "I think that's a big problem."
'It was traumatic for me'
Vande Kraats says she was married when she signed the Surrey Christian School's employment contract, which included a community standards policy, banning employees from having sex outside of a heterosexual marriage.
More than a decade later, after she had divorced and was living with her common-law partner, school superintendent Dave Loewen called her to his office and asked questions about her personal life.
He told her she could work six more months until the end of her contract, but Vande Kraats says she felt she had to resign.
"I didn't want to continue in a place where I already felt humiliated and judged," she said. "It was traumatic for me."
She says she also felt pressured to exit quietly, because she needed a good letter of reference. She is now working at another school in the Vancouver area.
"I think there are a lot more people who have been hurt by these policies than just myself, and I know exactly why they're not speaking up. They need those references as much as I did," Vande Kraats says.
'I don't think it's discriminatory'
Surrey Christian School superintendent Dave Loewen told Go Public, "it was sad" to lose Vande Kraats as an employee because she was a strong teacher.
"Having to have a difficult conversation with someone about personal choices is not my favourite thing to do," he said.
"I think the word 'discriminates' is too strong of a word," said Loewen. "I don't think it's discriminatory because it's not a requirement for people to work here. It's invitational and we're transparent about our values."
'Independent schools save taxpayers'
Surrey Christian School is a member of the Federation of Independent School Associations (FISA), which told Go Public in an email, "Independent schools save taxpayers nearly $430 million a year in operating costs and many millions more in capital costs" because parents pay tuition.
FISA executive director Shawn Chisholm said teachers "have the choice" of moving to another school, an argument that exasperates Bacchus, who writes on education issues for the Georgia Straight newspaper.
"To suggest that you can choose to go work somewhere else ... really is undermining the whole point of having those kind of protections," she said. "People shouldn't have to face discrimination in this country based on their marital status or their gender identity."
Controversial community contracts
Surrey Christian School is one of 35 schools that belong to the Society of Christian Schools in B.C., which provides its members a template for community standards policies that employees must follow.
Besides restrictions on sexual activity, there are recommended bans on things like using coarse language, public drunkenness and watching porn.
The defining legal case dates back to 1984, when the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in favour of a Catholic school that fired a teacher after she married a divorced man, saying non-profit religious institutions have the right to give preference to members of the group their organizations serve.
Court challenges
Challenges to those policies are few in number, and Go Public could not find any cases where employees had been successful in court.
In December, a former teacher and principal at a Catholic school took her case to the Alberta Human Rights Commission, alleging that she was pushed to quit because of her sexual orientation. That case is ongoing.
As a result of media reports, the Alberta government, which provided almost $1.7 billion in funding to Catholic schools last year, is now reviewing the employment contracts from all 16 Catholic school boards in the province.
A transgender man who was fired from a Catholic school in Alberta in 2008 lost his legal fight in 2017.
A Vancouver teacher decided not to pursue a legal case after she says she was pushed out of a Catholic school in 2010 when administrators discovered she was a lesbian after she asked for parental leave because her partner was having a baby.
Last June, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that B.C.'s Trinity Western University, an evangelical Christian school, could not get accreditation for a planned new law school because it has a policy demanding that students abstain from sex outside of heterosexual marriage — a code of conduct the court ruled to be discriminatory towards LGBT students.
"Interesting that staff weren't addressed in that ruling," says Vande Kraats, who told Go Public the Trinity Western decision prompted her to speak out about what had happened to her.
"I do wonder if the climate is changing now," she says.
When Vande Kraats asked the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal about her situation, she says she was dissuaded from filing a case.
"They were very sympathetic," she says, but told her that religious schools have the legal right to have discriminatory employment clauses.
B.C. religious schools get $300M a year
Surrey Christian School receives 50 per cent of the per-pupil funding given to public schools within its district.
In 2017-18, the school received $5 million in public funds — a portion of almost $300 million the provincial government allocated to faith-based schools.
"It's problematic to me that our provincial government in B.C. is providing funding to private schools that are including this kind of discriminatory language in employee contracts and discriminating against employees," she says.
Vande Kraats also wants the B.C. government to cut funding or demand religious schools change their employment policies.
B.C. government declines to comment
Go Public requested an interview with B.C. Premier John Horgan, but a spokesperson referred our request to the Ministry of Education.
A ministry spokesperson declined the interview request, and also refused to explain why the province provides funding to faith-based schools with discriminatory policies.
Communications manager Sean Leslie sent a statement reiterating that B.C.'s Human Rights Code provides certain exemptions that allow schools to have policies like the one that led to Vande Kraats' termination.
Time for a change?
Raji Mangat, a human rights lawyer with West Coast Women's Legal Education and Action Fund, says it may be time for the courts to re-examine the battle between religious rights and individual human rights.
"Society and our expectations around human rights and people's dignity change," Mangat says. "For instance, same sex marriage is now recognized.
'This is a dark secret'
Vande Kraats hopes that speaking out will encourage provincial governments across the country to take a hard look at the funding provided to schools with discriminatory employment contracts.
"This is a dark secret for these religious independent schools," she says.
"What I've learned is that these policies are actually enforced. And they're enforced against people that have been long-time teachers who are respected. And it's very hurtful. I hope it changes."
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Go Public is an investigative news segment on CBC-TV, radio and the web.
We tell your stories and hold the powers that be accountable.
We want to hear from people across the country with stories you want to make public.
Submit your story ideas at Go Public.
Follow @CBCGoPublic on Twitter.
About the Author
With files from Enza Uda
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