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David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
However I do enjoy their appearance in the Circus particularly when they attack other nasty ladies.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-tuesday-edition-1.5043490/nicey-nicey-trudeau-should-toss-wilson-raybould-and-philpott-from-caucus-says-sheila-copps-1.5049122
'Nicey-nicey' Trudeau should toss Wilson-Raybould and Philpott from caucus, says Sheila Copps
Former deputy prime minister Sheila Copps says it's time for Justin Trudeau to 'crack the whip'
If
Jody Wilson-Raybould and Jane Philpott have lost confidence in the
leadership of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau — why are they still in
caucus?
That's the question Sheila Copps is asking after the two senior Liberals announced their resignation from the cabinet over the SNC-Lavalin controversy.
Copps was the deputy prime minister in the Liberal cabinet of former prime minister Jean Chrétien.
She spoke to As It Happens host Carol Off on Tuesday, before Trudeau's former principal secretary Gerald Butts and privy council Michael Wernick testified before the justice committee about the SNC scandal.
Here is part of their conversation.
You have said that Justin Trudeau needs to "lance the boil" inside his caucus. What do you mean by that?
You've had two ministers who've come out and basically said that they have no confidence in the government.
These are not people who really believe they can follow Justin Trudeau's leadership. So it really doesn't make sense for them stay in caucus.
I think Jane Philpott, when she resigned, she's sort of set out the challenge that there are ethics, and there's cabinet, and then there are bigger issues.
And I would say to her that, in the case of the caucus, it's untenable for other people to be able to speak in caucus because, with the two of you so off side the government, and with the public mud-dragging that you've taken the prime minister through, how will people feel free to speak internally?
Wilson-Raybould, left, and Philpott, right, have both resigned from the cabinet over the SNC-Lavalin affair. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press)
So you feel they should be tossed from caucus?
Yes, I do. I believe they can stay in the party. I know Jody Wilson-Raybould's father, a couple of weeks ago, mused about Jody Wilson-Raybould taking down the government and her running as prime minister. So maybe that's part of her end game. I don't know.
I think Mr. Trudeau needs to be tougher and maybe crack the whip a little bit. I know that's not the new way. Everybody is all supposed to be nicey-nicey, but sometimes in politics you have to go beyond nicey-nicey.
It's doing big damage to his brand. Most people don't understand the intricacies of the whole thing, and it could cost him the election.
They have completely controlled the agenda from the very beginning.
But
let's go back to what originally begins this — because she said in her
statements, Jody Wilson-Raybould, said that for four months she
experienced a consistent and sustained efforts by many people in the
government to seek to politically interfere in an inappropriate effort
to secure a deferred prosecution for the corporation SNC-Lavalin. A
pretty serious charge, isn't it?
But she also said, if you actually listen to what she said, she said she received the notice from the prosecutor — which was not unanimous, by the way, it was a split view — she received that notice in early September and she had her meeting with the prime minister on the 17th of September, less than a week later.
And she said to the committee that she had made her decision before she met with the prime minister on the 17th September.
That's why, when Trudeau met with her and when other people met with her, they reinforced the fact that, look, is there another way that we can try and square the circle because there are lots of people's jobs at stake.
Frankly, for her to say before the committee that as a member of Parliament you shouldn't speak about your riding — I don't know.
It's obvious that she's never served in the trenches in politics. She came in. She became immediate attorney general. She's a star. And she doesn't really like to listen to other people, including the prime minister.
You said elsewhere that she has a victim narrative that she is pursuing.
Oh, absolutely. Not only does she have a victim narrative but she keeps saying that she cannot speak on things. Nobody's stopping her from saying why she quit Veterans Affairs — or why she accepted, and then quit.
There is no limitation on what she can say. I mean, we've all resigned at different times in our lives and people can speak. We live in a democracy. There's no lawyer lawyering her up. She's the one that lawyered herself up, right away, and then decided to choose the moment.
Copps, left, and former prime minister Jean Chretien in 1991. (Ron Poling/Canadian Press)
You,
as a woman cabinet minister, a woman in politics — it was bruising. I
watched you over those years, and I've known from reading what you've
written, and what you've said, about how difficult that was. At some
level, can you appreciate what that pressure must've felt like for her?
Unfortunately, when you're in a cabinet, you're there at the grace of everybody else getting elected and you're also there at the pleasure of the boss, who is the prime minister.
You
said that you think that Mr. Trudeau should get tougher.
But there's suggestions that what's coming in the next day or so is some
kind of statement of contrition — that he has to be more contrite and
take ownership.
[Editor's note: After this interview aired, Trudeauresponded to the testimonies. Read more at CBC News.]
I wouldn't be contrite. He hasn't done a single thing wrong.
And I did write a column [in The Hill Times] saying, I think, had there been 9,000 Aboriginal jobs involved in her decision, she would have viewed it differently.
And that's why you have to hear colleagues out. You can't just come and say, "Oh, I'm not doing this and I'm not talking to anybody. You can't talk to me. Oh my god, 11 people have called me."
Heavens to Betsy! Eleven people is nothing in politics. Usually you get about 11 calls an hour.
Written by Kevin Robertson and John McGill. Interview produced by Kevin Robertson. Q&A has been edited for length and clarity.
That's the question Sheila Copps is asking after the two senior Liberals announced their resignation from the cabinet over the SNC-Lavalin controversy.
Copps was the deputy prime minister in the Liberal cabinet of former prime minister Jean Chrétien.
She spoke to As It Happens host Carol Off on Tuesday, before Trudeau's former principal secretary Gerald Butts and privy council Michael Wernick testified before the justice committee about the SNC scandal.
Here is part of their conversation.
You have said that Justin Trudeau needs to "lance the boil" inside his caucus. What do you mean by that?
You've had two ministers who've come out and basically said that they have no confidence in the government.
These are not people who really believe they can follow Justin Trudeau's leadership. So it really doesn't make sense for them stay in caucus.
I think Jane Philpott, when she resigned, she's sort of set out the challenge that there are ethics, and there's cabinet, and then there are bigger issues.
And I would say to her that, in the case of the caucus, it's untenable for other people to be able to speak in caucus because, with the two of you so off side the government, and with the public mud-dragging that you've taken the prime minister through, how will people feel free to speak internally?
Yes, I do. I believe they can stay in the party. I know Jody Wilson-Raybould's father, a couple of weeks ago, mused about Jody Wilson-Raybould taking down the government and her running as prime minister. So maybe that's part of her end game. I don't know.
I think Mr. Trudeau needs to be tougher and maybe crack the whip a little bit. I know that's not the new way. Everybody is all supposed to be nicey-nicey, but sometimes in politics you have to go beyond nicey-nicey.
It's doing big damage to his brand. Most people don't understand the intricacies of the whole thing, and it could cost him the election.
They have completely controlled the agenda from the very beginning.
But she also said, if you actually listen to what she said, she said she received the notice from the prosecutor — which was not unanimous, by the way, it was a split view — she received that notice in early September and she had her meeting with the prime minister on the 17th of September, less than a week later.
And she said to the committee that she had made her decision before she met with the prime minister on the 17th September.
That's why, when Trudeau met with her and when other people met with her, they reinforced the fact that, look, is there another way that we can try and square the circle because there are lots of people's jobs at stake.
Frankly, for her to say before the committee that as a member of Parliament you shouldn't speak about your riding — I don't know.
It's obvious that she's never served in the trenches in politics. She came in. She became immediate attorney general. She's a star. And she doesn't really like to listen to other people, including the prime minister.
Oh, absolutely. Not only does she have a victim narrative but she keeps saying that she cannot speak on things. Nobody's stopping her from saying why she quit Veterans Affairs — or why she accepted, and then quit.
There is no limitation on what she can say. I mean, we've all resigned at different times in our lives and people can speak. We live in a democracy. There's no lawyer lawyering her up. She's the one that lawyered herself up, right away, and then decided to choose the moment.
Unfortunately, when you're in a cabinet, you're there at the grace of everybody else getting elected and you're also there at the pleasure of the boss, who is the prime minister.
[Editor's note: After this interview aired, Trudeauresponded to the testimonies. Read more at CBC News.]
I wouldn't be contrite. He hasn't done a single thing wrong.
And I did write a column [in The Hill Times] saying, I think, had there been 9,000 Aboriginal jobs involved in her decision, she would have viewed it differently.
And that's why you have to hear colleagues out. You can't just come and say, "Oh, I'm not doing this and I'm not talking to anybody. You can't talk to me. Oh my god, 11 people have called me."
Heavens to Betsy! Eleven people is nothing in politics. Usually you get about 11 calls an hour.
Written by Kevin Robertson and John McGill. Interview produced by Kevin Robertson. Q&A has been edited for length and clarity.
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David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Methinks Trudeau's purported statement of contrition will need some revision now that his buddy Gerry Butts spoke today N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/03/trudeau-considering-statement-of.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-raybould-philpott-snc-lavalin-1.5043763
Trudeau considering a statement of contrition over SNC-Lavalin
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
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David Amos
Trust that Gerald Butts, Jagmeet Singh, Andrew Scheer, Maxime Bernier, Elizabeth May and everyone else who sits in opposition know that Jody Wilson-Raybould may have lost her mandate as Justice Minister because of her failings in Federal Court and the Federal Court of Appeal within my lawsuit against the Crown that was filed when Harper was the Prime Minister and Mr Scheer was the Speaker. Need I say that it irritated me big time when Jody appointed her Deputy Minister to the bench of Federal Court not long after I argued their minions in the Federal Court of Appeal?
Methinks anyone can check my work by simply Googling two names "Jody Wilson-Raybould David Raymond Amos" before Gerry butts speaks his truth next week N'esy Pas?
Content disabled.
David Amos
Methinks Gerry Butts and his unnamed lawyer know truth is stranger than fiction and that anyone can easily Google "David Amos Federal Court file No.T-1557-15" in order to sort out the truth from fiction for themselves. Its blatantly obvious that Mr Trudeau had a duty to talk to Harper's Minister of justice and Peter MacKay and had them pay particular attention to info found within statement 83 of my lawsuit long before the election in October of 2015
Gerry Butts and everybody else knows why I am about to put the aforementioned matter before the Supreme Court and file several more lawsuits in the Federal Court against the RCMP and the CRA etc and also run for a seat in Parliament again N'esy Pas?
David Dekker
From CBC: "the ongoing SNC Lavalin controversy"
"Controversy"??? Canadians would prefer that the CBC use the word "Scandal" please.
"Controversy"??? Canadians would prefer that the CBC use the word "Scandal" please.
Show 24 older replies
Doug Gray
@Inas Johnson
Our own media bringing in Liberal spinners and apologists.
Our own media bringing in Liberal spinners and apologists.
Lloyd Browen
@David Dekker
"Controversy"??? Canadians would prefer that the CBC use the word "Scandal" please.
Telford's staff working overtime.
"Controversy"??? Canadians would prefer that the CBC use the word "Scandal" please.
Telford's staff working overtime.
David Amos
@David Dekker Methinks
Trudeau's purported statement of contrition will need some revision now
that his buddy Gerry Butts spoke today N'esy Pas?
Freddie Philpott
No more crocodile tears and fake apologies. Just leave.
Show 5 older replies
Inas Johnson
@Freddie Philpott
Dirt in Libya is deep and well precedes Truduea's time. Maybe he hasn't handled it perfectly, but neither did his predecessors. Its a game of musical chairs with Trudeau caught when the music stopped.
Dig deeper into Libya CBC. Gold, oil, wealth, now guns and war -plenty of skeletons -real news for those that have the courage to look...
Dirt in Libya is deep and well precedes Truduea's time. Maybe he hasn't handled it perfectly, but neither did his predecessors. Its a game of musical chairs with Trudeau caught when the music stopped.
Dig deeper into Libya CBC. Gold, oil, wealth, now guns and war -plenty of skeletons -real news for those that have the courage to look...
leonard g MacAulay
@Freddie Philpott
You left out false eyebrows.
You left out false eyebrows.
David Amos
@Inas Johnson I Wholeheartedly Agree
Steve Timmins
So Trudeau gets elected thanks to overwhelming support by women and now it's women who are taking him out.
Lloyd Browen
@Steve Timmins
"So Trudeau gets elected thanks to overwhelming support by women and now it's women who are taking him out."
Karma.
"So Trudeau gets elected thanks to overwhelming support by women and now it's women who are taking him out."
Karma.
James Timberly
@Tina Falco "I should mention
that electoral reform was another reason to support this guy...of
course we all know how that turned out"
You are unfortunately bang on.
You are unfortunately bang on.
David Amos
@Steve Timmins Methinks there is something wickedly special about that simple fact N'esy Pas?
Larry Smith
We need forensic accountants to follow the money trail from SNC to the Liberal Party.
Inas Johnson
@Larry Smith
If you think that's bad. Take a closer look into the "R2P" phenomenon -and LIbya ten years ago vs. Libya now. Maybe SNC Lavalin did some bad things, but there are those that did so much worse -and this has gone on through both sides of the political isle. Gold, oil, massive wealth -now war and destitution. So much scandal, words don't even capture it.
Will our kids read about this like we now read about the Belgian Congo?
If you think that's bad. Take a closer look into the "R2P" phenomenon -and LIbya ten years ago vs. Libya now. Maybe SNC Lavalin did some bad things, but there are those that did so much worse -and this has gone on through both sides of the political isle. Gold, oil, massive wealth -now war and destitution. So much scandal, words don't even capture it.
Will our kids read about this like we now read about the Belgian Congo?
Tina Falco
@Inas Johnson
Excellent comments Inas, thanks.
Excellent comments Inas, thanks.
David Amos
@Larry Smith Methinks a kid
in grade school could follow the crumbs on the well worn path left by
the dudes with the brown paper bags N'esy Pas?
Deborah Morgan Sangster
Too late - Canadians want Trudeau and his band of theives to resign.
Douglas Locke
@Jack Cochrane $4.5billion of our tax money for an obsolete pipeline that will never be expanded, for another.
Joseph Vacher
@Robert Green our countries dignity
David Amos
@Deborah Morgan Sangster Methinks its wise to imply that all Canadians think as you do N'esy Pas?
Ben Robinson
Trudeau is no longer in control ... and has failed.
bryan cassidy
@Ben Robinson
Was he ever in control? Perhaps Butt.
Was he ever in control? Perhaps Butt.
Philip Nicholson
@Ben Robinson "Trudeau, just not ready." (How prophetic)
Content disabled.
David Amos
David Amos
@bryan cassidy Methinks Mr Butts thought he was a but a couple of ladies have obviously shown him the door N'esy Pas?
Fred Warden
Trudeau MUST resign ASAP
He is playing Canadians for fools.
He is playing Canadians for fools.
Bob Claxton
@Fred Warden
After all, it has worked up until now. lol
After all, it has worked up until now. lol
David Amos
@Bob Claxton Not on all of us
Methinks folks should never forget I was suing the Crown before
Trudeau appointed Jody to take control over litigation N'esy Pas?
Larry Smith
We need an impeachment or recall process for politicians who do not deal honestly with the public.
David Allan
@Larry Smith
I would love for recall legislation.
What wasn't honest about his dealings with the public?
JWR says no laws were broken.
I would love for recall legislation.
What wasn't honest about his dealings with the public?
JWR says no laws were broken.
Arthur Gill
@David Allan
"What wasn't honest about his dealings with the public? "
At least two off the top of my head.
Trudeau claimed the G&M article was false.
It wasn't.
The next day Trudeau claimed there was no "pressure".
There was.
"What wasn't honest about his dealings with the public? "
At least two off the top of my head.
Trudeau claimed the G&M article was false.
It wasn't.
The next day Trudeau claimed there was no "pressure".
There was.
Douglas Locke
@Larry Smith We would only have two politicians left in Ottawa
David Amos
@Larry Smith I concur
Phillip Herring
If he has to "consider" it, then I doubt his sincerity.
David Amos
@Phillip Herring Me Too
brian duog
so here it comes folks , "I am sorry", tears form, ( translation " I am sorry I got caught")
David Allan
@brian duog
I wonder if he'll have Paul Calandra write it for him.
I wonder if he'll have Paul Calandra write it for him.
David Amos
@David Allan Perhaps you should
Trudeau considering a statement of contrition over SNC-Lavalin
Source said Trudeau had no warning of Philpott's resignation
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is holding high-level discussions today to plot next steps in the ongoing SNC-Lavalin controversy — steps which may include Trudeau making some display of contrition over how officials in his office conducted themselves.
A senior government official said one of the options being discussed is for Trudeau to "show some ownership over the actions of his staff and officials" in their dealings with his former attorney general, Jody Wilson-Raybould.
Wilson-Raybould resigned from her cabinet position as veteran affairs minister on Feb. 12. Wilson-Raybould testified before a Commons committee last week that 11 officials in the Prime Minister's Office and other offices inappropriately pressured her to override a decision to prosecute SNC-Lavalin on bribery charges related to contracts in Libya.
On Monday, Jane Philpott — one of Trudeau's most trusted ministers — resigned from cabinet over the SNC-Lavalin affair as well, saying she had to "abide by my core values, my ethical responsibilities and constitutional obligations."
A shift in messaging
To this point, Trudeau has described the entire controversy as a difference of opinion, insisting his office has done nothing wrong.
But the source said that Trudeau's comments at Monday night's climate change rally in Toronto hinted at a shift in approach.
"This matter has generated an important discussion," Trudeau told supporters at the rally. "How our democratic institutions, specifically the federal ministry and the staff and officials that support it, conduct themselves is critical and core to all of our principles."
All of this was prompted by Philpott's sudden resignation, which the source said "change(d) things once again — maybe in its biggest way so far."
No warning
The source confirms the prime minister had no idea Philpott was poised to resign when he made minor changes to his cabinet on Friday to fill the vacancy caused by Wilson-Raybould's resignation. Trudeau, the source said, didn't know Philpott was quitting until they spoke shortly before her resignation was made public.
Multiple high-level sources tell CBC News people in Trudeau's circle have been concerned about Philpott's level of comfort since the controversy erupted. Philpott was widely viewed as one of the most competent and effective ministers in the Trudeau cabinet. Seen as a highly-principled team player, Philpott is also a close friend and ally of Wilson-Raybould.
Because of that relationship, sources said, other ministers and top political staff tried to reassure Philpott by attempting to explain the government's conduct and seeking her advice on how to move forward.
Those efforts failed. In her resignation letter, Philpott made it clear she was resigning over the government's handling of SNC-Lavalin.
"Sadly, I have lost confidence in how the government has dealt with this matter and in how it has responded to the issues raised," she wrote in her resignation letter.
How to watch Wednesday's testimony
CBC News will have full coverage of Gerry Butts' testimony at the Justice committee:- A special Power & Politics with VassyKapelos begins at 10 a.m. ET on CBC News Network.
- Watch Power & Politics' special coverage on cbcnews.ca, YouTube, Twitter and Facebook at 10 a.m. ET.
- Follow our live blog and updated stories at cbc.ca/politics at 10 a.m. ET.
- Tune in to World at 6 on CBC Radio One and The National at 10 p.m. on CBC Television for more news and analysis on the day's events.
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