Methinks
Dominic Cardy and his boss Higgy had lots of time to read my emails, checkout a blog or two and watch at least one movie while stuffing their pieholes with butter tarts for years N'esy Pas?
Methinks Dominic Cardy and his boss Higgy should try sharing some of their precious butter tarts with the lawyer Rocco Galati and his cohorts in an effort to stop a lawsuit N'esy Pas?
Vaccine Choice Canada Is Launching A Legal Challenge
By Vaccine Choice Canada
Vaccine
Choice Canada (VCC) is filing a legal challenge against federal,
provincial and municipal governments in Canada for their handling of the
SARS-CoV-2 infection.
YO
Dominic Cardy how can you Conservatives brag of buying Butter Tarts
when CBC tells me you dudes have to sell your HQ? Yet you wackos want
control of our provincial economy?
Green MLAs hit with 'social media storm' following vaccination bill abstentions
Controversial Bill 11 defeated 22-20 after 3 Green MLAs abstain from vote
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Jun 24, 2020 6:00 AM AT
From left, Green Party MLA Kevin Arseneau, party leader David Coon and
MLA Megan Mitton, pictured at the New Brunswick legislature, all
abstained from voting on the controversial mandatory vaccination bill. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
Two Green Party MLAs who chose not to vote on a contentious
vaccination bill last week are defending the decision to abstain in the
face of what one calls "a social media storm."
Kevin Arseneau
and Megan Mitton say they've heard the condemnation from across the
political spectrum that they should not have sat out the vote.
But they both say they would do it again.
"I've been thinking a lot over the last few days about if there
was a better path to take, but I didn't want to align with anti-vaxxers
and I still didn't think this was good policy," says Mitton, the MLA
for Memramcook-Tantramar.
"So it was 'hold my nose and vote yes
for legislation that I didn't think was good?' I don't think we should
do that type of thing either. We should go back and make better
policy."
Arseneau, the MLA for Kent North, said he hasn't been
swayed by the criticism either. "Even with all the reaction and
everything … I'd do it again tomorrow in the House," he said.
Both Kevin Arseneau, pictured, and Megan Mitton said they would still abstain if the vote was held again. (Radio-Canada)
The bill was defeated 22-20. If all three Green MLAs had voted yes, it would have passed.
Green
Leader David Coon explained his decision last Thursday, but his two
colleagues had not spoken publicly about why they didn't vote either
way.
'You hid'
Progressive Conservative Education
Minister Dominic Cardy slammed the abstentions last week, saying the
Green MLAs were afraid of "extremists in your base. … Legislators are
elected to legislate. You hid."
Liberal Leader Kevin Vickers called it "a complete abdication of duty by the Green party."
Education Minister Dominic Cardy said the goal of the bill
was to immunize enough children to create herd immunity so that the
small number of children who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons
would still be protected from an outbreak. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
Even retired NDP leader Elizabeth Weir, who rarely comments on
current provincial issues, said on Twitter she was "so disappointed"
with the Greens. She never abstained during 14 years as an MLA, she
added. "I took my lumps."
There was also scathing criticism from the public on social media and in comments on news coverage.
Mitton and Arseneau reject Cardy's accusation they were responding to anti-vaccination sentiment among Green supporters.
"If
I wanted to please them, I would not have come out and said we need to
be working on a new, better, improved bill," Arseneau said.
The
only other MLA who abstained on the vote was PC Agriculture, Aquaculture
and Fisheries Minister Ross Wetmore. He refused to discuss his
abstention.
"Where the bill has already been decided upon, I have no further comment," he said in an email to CBC News.
The
bill would have eliminated religious and philosophical exemptions to
the mandatory vaccination policy requirement for school children.
Unvaccinated kids without valid medical reasons would not have been
allowed to go to school starting in September 2021.
Mitton and
Arseneau, both elected for the first time in 2018, say while they
supported the idea of the bill, Cardy didn't have complete data on
vaccination rates and couldn't demonstrate such a strict measure was
needed now.
"There's a bunch of steps that public health experts
say should be taken before you get to an extreme measure like excluding
children from accessing education," Mitton said.
"I do think
that this is a tool that could be in the toolbox to be used in the event
that it is needed. The evidence was not provided that it is needed
right now."
Herd-immunity threshold
Cardy's numbers
showed about one per cent of the school population is not vaccinated.
But he said with a three per cent vaccination failure rate, the numbers
were getting close to falling below the 95 per cent coverage rate needed
for herd immunity.
That
refers to enough vaccinations to allow a population to avoid infections
and protect those who can't be immunized for legitimate medical
reasons.
If the bill had passed, children not vaccinated for any
reason other than health concerns would not have been allowed to go to
public schools starting in the fall of 2021. (Paul Vernon/The Associated Press)
Cardy predicted that with anti-vaccination sentiment and misinformation spreading, a tougher policy was needed.
Arseneau
said if the rate falls under the herd-immunity threshold, "then
absolutely that is what should set off mandatory vaccination."
But
he said it should be a last resort, because children barred from
attending public schools won't benefit from learning about how to
understand data and how to use the scientific method.
The Greens
tried to amend the bill last week to give the chief medical officer of
health the power to declare the bill in effect when the rate fell below
the threshold. But the amendment was defeated.
Arseneau said
while he had planned to vote for the bill originally, "my abstention was
an invitation to continue working on getting our vaccination numbers up
[and] making good vaccination policy."
It's not anti-vaxx vs. pro-science, says Mitton
Mitton,
who said she and her children are all vaccinated, said many public
health officials, including British Columbia's chief medical officer Dr.
Bonnie Henry, have suggested stricter mandatory vaccination policies
are not the way to go.
"This shouldn't have been anti-science,
anti-vaxx versus pro-science, pro-vaccine, but that's the way it's been
framed," Mitton said. "So I couldn't support the bill as it stood, but I
also didn't want to align myself with anti-vaxxers."
Green MLA Megan Mitton pointed to public health experts who
say stricter mandatory vaccination may not be the best policy option for
immunizing school children. (CBC)
Both MLAs say
they've been criticized by supporters of the bill but also by
anti-vaccination activists who wanted them to vote against it.
"It has been a bit of a social media storm," Mitton said.
"Some
people said [abstaining] was the easy choice," Arseneau said.
"Politically this was the worse position we could have ever took,
because it's right in the middle of a polarized debate. You have people
who feel so strongly about it and so strongly against it."
Mitton
and Arseneau both say once they explain the complexity of the issue to
their constituents, they understand better why they abstained.
Norman Young Never trust a politician who has a pierced nose.
Jos Allaire
... even less one with a religious symbol!
John Oliver
Reply to @Norman Young: I think the first 4 words are plenty.
Jos Allaire I
strongly do believe in science, objective science, that is! But it is
hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. And the chaff is the money.
It was claimed that there was no problem with agent orange, DDT and
glyphosate, to name a few. Oh wait... Now they want to force us to have
some stuff injected into our system. Therefore, don't blame some to be
overly apprehensive.
Randy McNally The
fact that it was a free vote and they all abstained does not bode well
for Coon in my opinion. At least one of them should have voted. Or two
of them vote to cancel each others vote would have been the best way to
go with exaatly the same result as 3 abstentions.
john smith apparently pointing out herd imunity is between 60-80 % not 95 is taboo on this site
Randy McNally
Reply to @john smith:
Very Interesting...Anything that goes against "The ministry of truth"
usually, as David Amos says...."Goes poof"
Fred Estey
Reply to @Randy McNally: Methinks you're referencing your alter ego. N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell These
3 and Wetmore , as well as Northrup should be ashamed of themselves !
They REALLY , REALLY let those down who could not be vaccinated due to
compromised immune systems !! ALL should resign immediately !!!!!!!!!!!
Joey
Joncas 3 /45.
Kevin Arseneau, party leader
David Coon and
MLA Megan Mitton
You guy did good.. you didnt have to vote. An you dont need an explanation...
Making the vaccination obligatory is against the chart of right and. Liberty...
Everyone who Vote against and these 3.
They fight for our rights... thanks
Lou Bell
Reply to @Joey
Joncas: They FAILED the people of NB greatly ! Especially those who ARE
UNABLE to be vaccinated and whose immune system is compromised ! They
chose the anti vaxxers over those who had no choice ! Very shameful
decision ! And Arseneau ? It could have been served on a silver platter
and approved by all other MLA's and he would have voted no. His SANB
roots are there to the core
Randy McNally
Reply to @Lou Bell: I know of people who are immune compromised and were very much against bill 11
Agata
Haueisen
Reply to @Lou Bell:
do you know how many children in NB are immune compromised and can't be
vaccinated or do you like Cardy don't care about data before trying to
take people's personal rights away?
Lou Bell
Reply to @Agata
Haueisen: I believe I saw a figure of around 1300 children ! And the
children of anti vaxxers ? Their rights would be taken away BY THEIR
PARENTS , who choose not to follow the rules !
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Randy McNally: Really? And why is that?
Lou Bell
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Randy has no backup ! Social media !
Debbie Vissers
Reply to @Joey Joncas: No they did not fight for our rights. They were cowards.
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Lou Bell: I
should have said to Randy, cue the crickets as I don't think he knows a
single immune compromised person and if he did, that person was not
against bill 11.
Jos Allaire
Reply to @Lou Bell: Do you have a job as you are always harping on here against Francophones. Too much time on your hand.
Bill sought to remove religious, philosophical exemptions for schoolchildren
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Jun 18, 2020 1:47 PM AT
Education Minister Dominic Cardy said the goal of the bill was to
immunize enough children to create herd immunity so that the small
number of children who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons would
still be protected from an outbreak. (CBC)
Proposed legislation to strengthen mandatory-vaccination rules
for schoolchildren in New Brunswick has been defeated in the provincial
legislature.
Education Minister Dominic Cardy's bill, to
eliminate religious and philosophical exemptions from the requirement
for vaccinations, was defeated 22-20 in a free vote among all four
parties in the legislature.
The two largest parties split on the issue, with six Progressive Conservative MLAs and 12 Liberals voting against it.
The three People's Alliance MLAs all voted no, while the three Green MLAs abstained.
"There
are people who make decisions based on evidence on both sides of the
House," Cardy tweeted after the vote. "And those that don't."
Cardy
said he was disappointed a majority of MLAs "couldn't stand up against
the bullying, the harassment, the threats" from anti-vaccination
activists.
I understand how they could succumb to that pressure, but that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed in it.
- Dominic Cardy, education minister
"I understand how they could succumb to that pressure, but that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed in it."
But
Attorney-General Andrea Anderson-Mason, who voted against the bill,
said her decision was based not on emotion but on a lack of evidence.
She said Cardy had failed to produce data showing an urgent need to restrict parental rights.
"There
was no evidence to show there had been an impact on the number of
immunizations in our province as a result of the anti-vaxx movement,"
she said.
"We were not provided with any information to show
that people were even using the exemptions, and I think those are
critical bits of data."
People's Alliance Leader Kris Austin said the vote demonstrated how democracy should work. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
Alliance Leader Kris Austin made the same argument. He said
Cardy failed to win over a majority of MLAs because "he brought us
incomplete information … to fix a system that nobody says is broken."
He
was referring to the fact that data on vaccinations and exemptions from
two out of the province's seven school districts still wasn't available
as recently as this week, when a committee of MLAs examined the bill.
"Whether
you like the outcome or don't like the outcome, it is a representation
of how true democracy should work," Austin said of the vote.
Premier Blaine Higgs was among the PC MLAs who voted for the bill.
"Whether
the bill was completely flawless or not, it provided that assurance to
families that we were going to do our part to protect the health of
students in classrooms," he said.
But given the emotion
surrounding the issue, Higgs said a free vote was warranted. He said
with the bill defeated, government will need to monitor vaccination
rates and promote immunization to ensure rates don't go down.
Close to slipping below herd immunity
Cardy
argued that 95 per cent of children need to be vaccinated to achieve
herd immunity, in which there's enough resistance to a disease that it's
unlikely to spread in a school.
About one per cent of school
children are now exempt, but Cardy argued this week that with three per
cent of vaccinations not working, the province was already perilously
close to slipping below the herd immunity threshold.
Green Party
Leader David Coon said he and his two caucus colleagues abstained
because, while they support mandatory vaccinations, they think it should
be the chief medical officer of health who has the power to eliminate
exemptions "based on public health requirements."
Coon tried to amend the bill to that effect Wednesday but his amendment was defeated.
If the bill had passed, children not vaccinated for any
reason other than health concerns would not have been allowed to go to
public schools starting in the fall of 2021. Critics called it an
assault on parental rights. (Paul Vernon/The Associated Press)
Asked if an eventual COVID-19 vaccine should be mandatory, Coon said, "I'll have to think about that."
Cardy scorned Coon and his two colleagues for not taking a stand one way or the other.
"I expected a lot better from the members of the Green Party," he said.
The
minister said he would "carry on the conversation" with members of the
two parties that had some MLAs support his bill, the PCs and the
Liberals, to find other ways to improve vaccination rates.
Cardy
aggressively pushed for the legislation, sometimes accusing his own PC
colleagues of not paying attention to science and facts.
Anderson
said it was the lack of clear numbers on vaccinations and exemptions,
not Cardy's personal style, that led to the bill's defeat.
"He
has fought very hard for what he believes in and he's to be commended
for that," she said. "I don't know that would have necessarily made a
difference, the approach that he took, because at the end of the day I
was hung up on the missing data."
The vote was originally
reported by the clerk of the legislature as 22-19 against the bill, but
it was later revised to 22-20 against.
How members of the legislature voted
Voted for the bill Progressive Conservatives: 13
Glen
Savoie, Blaine Higgs, Trevor Holder, Ted Flemming, Sherry Wilson,
Dorothy Shephard, Carl Urquhart, Mary Wilson, Ernie Steeves, Bill
Oliver, Dominic Cardy, Bruce Fitch, Stewart Fairgrieve.
Liberals: 7
Lisa Harris, Jean-Claude d'Amours, Keith Chiasson, Rob McKee, Jacques LeBlanc, Isabelle Theriault, Gerry Lowe.
Voted against the bill Progressive Conservatives: 6
Jake Stewart, Gary Crossman, Bruce Northrup, Mike Holland, Jeff Carr, Andrea Anderson-Mason.
Liberals: 12
Guy
Arseneault, Denis Landry, Cathy Rogers, Brian Kenny, Roger Melanson,
Andrew Harvey, Francine Landry, Stephen Horsman, Gilles LePage, Chuck
Chiasson, Monique LeBlanc, Benoît Bourque.
People's Alliance: 3
Kris Austin, Rick DeSaulniers, Michelle Conroy.
Independent: 1
Robert Gauvin.
Abstained Progressive Conservatives: 1
Ross Wetmore.
Greens: 3
David Coon, Kevin Arseneau, Megan Mitton.
Jacques
Poitras has been CBC's provincial affairs reporter in New Brunswick
since 2000. Raised in Moncton, he also produces the CBC political
podcast Spin Reduxit.
286 Comments Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Amos Content disabled Methinks
Cardy cannot deny that my relentless reminding of everyone about his
fondness for butter tarts caused a few of his buddies to bail out of his
punky boat before it sunk N'esy Pas?
Guy Richard
Content disabled Who cares they will get sick, c'est la vie.
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Guy Richard: So you say
David Amos
Content disabled
Methinks Cardy did not have enough butters tarts to keep the Green Meanies and a liberal or two on his side N'esy Pas?
michael levesque
Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: hey you should run for the Liberals cause you talk like a Liberal you make no sense at all!!!!
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @michael levesque: Clearly you have no clue as to who I am
David Amos "Cardy
said he was disappointed a majority of MLAs "couldn't stand up against
the bullying, the harassment, the threats" from anti-vaccination
activists."
Yea Right Methinks after he has some more butter tarts I bet that Cardy
will dream up some reasons why his buddies did not support his nonsense
N'esy Pas?
Jecht Almasy
Reply to @David Amos: Our charter of Rights protect us against governmental bullying.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Jecht Almasy: that’s why Cardy tried to ram it through with the notwithstanding clause, a sure sign of tyranny
Terry
Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos:
I *think* it "telling" that 6 Conservatives voted against Mt Cardy's pet project. I'm guessing they can't stand him either?
David Amos
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: When Higgy hired him as his Chief of Staff I swear I giggled for
weeks and made Cardy crazy with emails about our past encounters. When
they decided to send me Butter Tarts with a signed note I almost died
laughing and named the stray cat who ate their treats Mr Higgs It was
all incredibly funny as Northrup tried to pretend it never happened when
I ran against him later that year.
Terry
Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos:
Will you be blogging this?
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Already doing so but its private for now because I am far from done
David Amos
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: The truly incredible part is the fact that the anti vaxxers knew
everything last year and did nothing with it Go Figure
Terry
Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos:
Maybe they were trusting anti-Cardy to take over? They appear to be
right, the ONLY reason this failed was Mr Cardy, anyone else would have
gotten this passed.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry
Tibbs: Methinks the anti vaxxers thought had Cardy beat last year so
they made fun of me as well but when the narcissistic clown upped the
ante with notwithstanding nonsense the worm turned. However once it was
removed I truly thought Cardy was gonna pull it off until the leader of
the Green Meanies decided have a hissy fit. There was no way to predict
that N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Trust that I can tell Cardy stories all night long but they would go "Poof"
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: CBC introduced us
NDP gets help from democracy expert
CBC News · Posted: Jan 09, 2006 4:23 PM AT
An international expert on democracy has flown all the way from Egypt to help NDP candidate John Carty campaign in Fredericton.
Dominic
Cardy is with a group called The National Democratic Institute. Its
members include such people as former U.S. President Jimmy Carter. The
group's mission is to teach democratic values and spread democracy
around the world.
Cardy has taught about democracy in Algeria,
Bangladesh, and Cambodia during the past few years. When he heard his
friend John Carty was running for office back in his home town of
Fredericton, he hopped on a plane.
"It was a strange
experience," Cardy said. "One evening I was watching the sun go down
over the pyramids, and the next evening watched it go down over
Fredericton airport as I came into land."
Cardy is no relation to the NDP candidate. But he loves elections and loves getting people pumped up about democracy.
Carty
the candidate is running against federal Indian Affairs Minister Andy
Scott, Conservative Pat Lynch, Green candidate Philip Duchastel and
independent David Amos. The riding has sent Scott to Ottawa for the last
four elections, despite the best efforts of the other parties.
Cardy
says he doesn't care how tough the race his – he just wants people to
participate in the process. "People have forgotten how incredibly
precious these gifts that our ancestors fought for are and were just
giving them away. It makes me furious when I talk to people and people
just say 'ah there's no point in voting.'"
After election day,
Dominic Cardy is flying back home to his wife in Kathmandu, Nepal. He
hopes to leave behind a new Member of Parliament for Fredericton, his
friend John Carty for the NDP.
val harris The
problem was the education minister put this bill forward not the health
minister. What’s sad is that Cardy thinks he’s above everyone and
really he will be a one term pc MLA.
Lou Bell
Reply to @val harris:
Oh , the Liberals are so shallow that they'd sacrifice the health of
school kids because of who put the bill forward ! Not for the good it
would cause ! Gotcha !!!
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks you wish to forget how many Conservative voted against your precious bill N'esy Pas?
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos:
And poor Lou is blind to that fact. I'm *thinking* those 6 Conservatives can't stand him either?
Guy Richard Who cares they will get sick, c'est la vie.
David Amos
Reply to @Guy Richard: So you say
Murray Brown
A sad day for science
and for the children. For those not vaccinating... Never ever travel
with your children to a foreign country where diseases like polio still
exist. One swim in the water and they'll be crippled for life.
Chantal LeBouthi
Reply to @Murray Brown: no the majority will get vaccines
David Amos Content disabled
Reply to @Murray Brown: Methinks is time to take a nap and try to get over your bitterness N'esy Pas?
Fudder 18 Reply to @Murray Brown: Look up why they no longer give the polio vaccine.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Murray
Brown: actually before polio vaccine arrived 99.999% of people were
unharmed by polio, CDC vital statistics are online for every year in the
1950s and prior
David Amos
Reply to @Murray Brown: Methinks you and your hero Cardy are not having a good day N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell
Leader of the Greens puts himself ahead of the kids.
David Amos Reply to @Lou Bell:
Methinks the boss of the Green Meanies whose name we can't say certainly
puts himself ahead of your heroes Cardy and Higgy N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell
Two of the Greens
voted against tne Bill because their leader didn't get his amendment
added and he had a lip on ! The other just doesn't understand what
common sense really means
Terry Tibbs
Content disabled Reply to @Lou Bell:
Just can't get it right can you Lou.
Give the thing another read, and if there are any words you don't understand you should look them up, and learn something.
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Lou doesn't read anything
Buddy Best Reply to @Lou Bell: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to speak and remove all doubt.
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell: Do you?
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Try looking up the word "Abstain", and add it to your internal
dictionary, then you will have 2 words there and they won't be lonely.
Naomi Forbes
What I still fail to
understand is if you are vaccinated then how can you get the disease
from an unvaccinated person? It might be a dumb question but does
anyone know the answer?
Murray
Brown
Reply to @Naomi Forbes: You can't... If you're vaccinated then you don't get the disease that you were vaccinated for... Ever!
Naomi
Forbes
Reply to @Murray
Brown: .... so why so much animosity shown towards people who aren't
vaccinated then if the vaccinated ones are safe forever?
Jeff Leblanc
Reply to @Naomi
Forbes: my take is people dont like when a vocal minority thinks they
know more than the majority. It comes off as arrogance on their part and
they are usually preachy and try and push their beliefs on others.
That's why I dont like them. I'm sure others feel the same
Fudder 18 Reply
to @Murray Brown: You kind of do, many cases of measles are vaccine
derived, and mumps vaccine..fully vaccinated populations, as on ships or
university campus, are having outbreaks. Polio, yup, from the vaccine.
James
Smythe
Reply to @Naomi
Forbes: This is the burning question. If vaccines are such guaranteed
protection, why be scared of those who don't have it? By extension, if
masks are such great protection, why are they also scared of people who
don't wear them? It's the ultimate hypocrisy.
Fred
Brewer
Reply to @James
Smythe: Your burning question has been answered at least a hundred times
on this site. For you to not know the answer by now is what I call
"willful blindness". I won't waste my time explaining it to you once
again because tomorrow you will just ask the same question again. When I
see this tactic, I realize the reason anti-vaxxers us this tactic so
often is because that's all they have. Sad. Truly sad.
James
Smythe
Reply to @Fred
Brewer: I'm not an "anti-vaxxer", I have all mine. Whether or not
someone else gets one is therefore of no concern to me since I'm
protected.
Brian Cohen
Reply to @Naomi Forbes:
the problem is for people who for medical reasons CANNOT be vaccinated.
it is for these people that "herd immunity" is required.
that there are also a large number of people including children who're
not vaccinated only complicates things and is reason for upsurges in
preventable illnesses like measles
Pat McGregor
Reply to @Naomi Forbes:
Newborns and infants who have not yet been fully vaccinated are
typically at greatest risk should an outbreak of disease occur.
Prevention of outbreaks reduces infant hospitalizations, complications,
and deaths.
Vaccines are highly effective in most people, but in a small percentage
of people, the vaccine is less effective at eliciting a response that
provides good immunity. Those people could potentially be infected and
spread disease to a vulnerable person, as can unvaccinated people spread
disease.
Thus a robust vaccination program provides a better shield for infants,
immunocompromised people, and for those who cannot be vaccinated.
For the benefit of CBC and their equally evil cohorts in Viafoura I will disable this comment myself and post it within my blog instead David Amos
Reply to @James
Smythe: Methinks mean old people such as Fred don't even understand the term cognitive dissonance They usually just block you if they can' argue you thereby sticking their fat nasty arses in the air while their heads are buried in the bullshit they support N'esy Pas?
James Edward
On a positive
political note, this is the first time I can recall such a varied stance
on a topic. Look at the politician who voted for what they thought was
right. They didn't tow the party line. Real democracy at work. Rare
these days.
Randy
McNally
Reply to @James Edward: Such is the beauty of a minority government. The people actually have a voice.
David Amos Reply to @Randy McNally: Kinda sorta
Terry Tibbs Reply to @James Edward:
I'm *thinking* the result would have been different if this was brought forward by somebody actually likeable?
James Edward
Don't worry bill gates will get us all eventually. New world order here we come!
Naomi Forbes
Reply to @James Edward: ...all I can say about Bill Gates besides his love of money is his very creepy smile.
James Edward
Reply to @Naomi Forbes: Windows is always full of viruses...what make him think he can keep them out of people...
David Amos
Reply to @James Edward: BINGO
Randy
McNally Reply to @James Edward: Windows and viruses go hand in hand and it's no mistake. And anti-virus to the rescue!
James
Smythe
Let me go make some popcorn quickly while I watch the hypochondriac class absolutely LOSE their minds :D
Lou Bell
Reply to @James
Smythe: Says the " Me Party " member ! Leadership Convention for the
party Saturday at Timmies . Tony and Dave are on the ticket !
James Smythe
Reply to @Lou Bell: Looney bin Lou Bell strikes again!
David Amos
Reply to @James Smythe: Pass the popcorn
James Smythe Reply
to @David Amos: David, you take a lot of flak around here I noticed,
but I think you have a great sense of humour, and we'd probably get
along well.
David Amos
Reply to @James
Smythe: Methinks many of our Forefathers who fought for our rights and
freedoms said when the flak was the greatest they knew they were right
over the target N'esy Pas?
Joseph Vacher
Content disabled Up Next: NB decides to stop teaching evolution in favor of creationism
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Joseph Vacher: Bitter?
Michel Pelletier
now if we only had a law to sue somebody because the refuse to be vaccinated, opinion would cetainly change
James Edward
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: no then you'd have civil war
Jesus Murphy
Reply to @Michel
Pelletier: ... because more laws will make the world a better place ...
and more cops, too, right? Maybe Bill Gates eugenics agenda is not such a
bad thing if it only takes out the dummies who willingly line up for
his vaccines.
David Amos Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Methinks even Cardy knows that I would sue the dude that would dare to make such a law N'esy Pas?
Esteban Burke
Ding Dong the wicked Bill is dead!
David Amos
Reply to @Esteban Burke: lol
David Amos Reply to @Esteban Burke: However Cardy almost got you and your little dog too
Rob Franklin
It's a real shame. Look at what only ONE virus has done to the world today.
David Amos
Reply to @Rob Franklin: Look again
Rob Franklin
Reply to @David Amos: touche
Esteban
Burke
Reply to @Rob
Franklin: even worse, look at what the absurd over reaction to one virus
has done to the world. All the death stats you see are people dying
with cOVID as a co morbidity, that doesn’t mean it caused their death.
Median age of death “with” cOVID in BC? 86. 86!!!! An iCFR of 0.26% all
ages and we wrecked the economy and saw massive spikes in suicides and
domestic violence. Wow, shameful.
Lou Bell
Reply to @Esteban
Burke: Where are your sources for " massive spikes in suicides and
domestic violnce " ?? I saw an article that indicated domestic violence
IS DOWN !!!
Chantal LeBouthi
Reply to @Rob Franklin: still no vaccine for it either
Esteban
Burke
Reply to @Lou Bell:
weird you ask someone for sources while not providing your own. From
MSN: “ “We’ve never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of
time,” Dr. Mike deBoisblanc, head of trauma at John Muir Medical Center,
told local station ABC7. “I mean, we’ve seen a year’s worth of suicide
attempts in the last four weeks.” He added that he thinks “it’s time” to
end the state shutdown.”
Article headline so you can search for it as urls likely get blocked
here “ ‘A Year’s Worth of Suicide Attempts in the Last Four Weeks’:
California Doctor Calls for End to Lockdown”
Joseph Vacher
Reply to @Esteban Burke: thats one guys opinion
Esteban
Burke
Reply to @Joseph Vacher: it’s not an opinion, it’s statistics; sorry you can’t recognize the difference.
Opinion: “I think it’s hotter today than it was yesterday”
Fact: “yesterday was 27C and today is 29C therefore it is hotter today”
Joseph Vacher
Reply to @Esteban Burke: Fact: 1 of 2 of us has a mathematics degree, the other doesn't.
Esteban
Burke
Reply to @Joseph Vacher: that’s weird, it auto-corrected “fallacious arguments” to “mathematics” in your post.
James Edward
Reply to @Esteban Burke: burn
Randy
McNally
Reply to @Rob
Franklin: If you've noticed the virus cannot nor should not take all of
the credit for the mess the world is in. It's a scapegoat. The US
economy was in deep dodo last fall before this all started.
David Amos Reply to @Randy
McNally: YUP Methinks everybody knew why all the big corporate dudes
were quitting and cashing out long before this virus had a name N'esy
Pas?
Fudder 18 Reply
to @Chantal LeBouthi: Only about 2% away from natural herd immunity
now, but with over 99% recovery rate no vaccine needed. Fauci was
worried about reaching herd immunity before the vaccine, he lost. Baylor
worked for yrs. on a coronavirus vaccine, animals were getting so ill
and dying. No worries, these guys are skipping the animal trials.
Twilight Zone.
Michel Pelletier
this is a sad day.
If there was a vaccin against cancer heart disease ect so on
, everybody would jump at the vaccin.
David Amos Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Don't bet on it
Esteban
Burke Reply to @Michel Pelletier: nope
Joseph Vacher Reply to @Michel Pelletier: the smart people would. the rest we can do without
James Edward
Reply to @Michel
Pelletier: There already a vaccine for those it's called eating healthy,
exercise, laughter, and a loving family. For most people it's lifestyle
choices that lead to deceases. And of course there still would be some
that would get heart decease and cancer, but not to the level we
currently see. Also no money to be made on healthy people.
fred cooper
Reply to @Michel
Pelletier: How are you SO SURE that the ingredients in vaccines don't
cause cancer? If you look at a the vaccine excipient list you may be
surprised...
Buddy Best Reply
to @Michel Pelletier: Wrong!!! There will always be those who do not
trust government and for good reason. They are not to be trusted!!!!
remember 911 and B d S
Jane Sherrard
The unvaccinated
children do not deserve to have society believe they are infectious
beasts. Most adults aren’t vaccinated and where are all those scary
diseases? Ask your government how many of the recent whooping cough and
measles cases in NB were vaccinated. If main stream media could get an
honest answer, they may begin to see a bigger picture - but it would
mean using critical thinking skills. What are the odds of that?
David Amos Reply to @Jane Sherrard: Well put
Michel
Pelletier
Reply to @Jane
Sherrard: you are ill inform, children who get sick from whooping
get it because the vaccin has lost it's potency
Esteban
Burke
Reply to @Michel
Pelletier: that is wholly incorrect, the vaccine doesn’t prevent
infection or transmission, it lessens the severity of the spasms.
Whooping cough outbreaks occur regardless of vaccine coverage rates and
are cyclical, most cases occur from vaccinated asymptomatic individuals
coughing.
Esteban
Burke
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: no that’s actually how science says the vaccine works.
Reply to @Jane
Sherrard: most adults ARE vaccinated. 91 percent in fact as per
HealthCanada.ca. Go look it up if you don't believe me.
fred cooper
Reply to @Jeff
LeBlanc: Actually it says only 10% of adults over 18 received a
pertussis booster. So no... most adults are not vaccinated.
Jeff
LeBlanc
Reply to @fred cooper: keep reading
Jeff
LeBlanc
Reply to @fred
cooper: the fact I need to point out a booster and vaccination are not
one in the same tells me there's no point in trying to explain anything
further to you. Good day.
Buddy Best Reply to @Jane Sherrard: Agent orange will not harm you.....right away.
Esteban
Burke
Reply to @Jeff
LeBlanc: if you’re immune you don’t need a booster therefore with only
6% of adults up to date on their vaccinations, how about going after
that ahe group instead of the one with only 1% filing NMEs and that
doesn’t even mean it’s against all vaccines. The lack of logic in the
Minister’s Bill is astounding.
Randy
McNally
Reply to @Jane
Sherrard: Yes but you probably should have said "fully vaccinated" And
yes many say the measles outbreak in KV last year was from vaccine
"shedding" but the ptb will not comment. So only those effected can
tell us.
Randy
McNally
Reply to @Jeff
LeBlanc: Why should she look it up when it's obvious that you did not or
you would no that it's not true. It's probably true that the majority
of adults probably believe they are fully vaccinated but that's about
it.
Dianne MacPherson
SHAME on the Green Party for sitting on the fence !!!
David Amos Reply to @Dianne MacPherson: Welcome back to the circus
Terry Tibbs Reply to @Dianne MacPherson:
I *think* democracy was served. They recommended a change, they were refused, they voted accordingly.
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs:
I disagree Methinks I had a lot do with my teasing Cardy and his
buddies about them sending me butter tarts before the last election that
caused me to run in a provincial election for the first time since
2006. Then the is all the people I was talking to on the phone about
butter tarts etc for the past couple of years. Trust that Cardy knows
that yesterday his pal Chucky Leblanc and his pals figured out I was a
serious as a heart attack about it and even he got upset His videos and
their Facebook proved it yesterday but I suspect that everything will
soon go "Poof" as usual N'esy Pas?
Justin
Gunther Content disabled Can we have the most
recent information please? I understand this is a representative
democracy and we trust our representatives to make our decisions for us.
But can we have it anyway?
Can we also get some other opinion's on Senior Health Professional Dr.
Dominic Cardy's assessment that 95% is required for herd immunity?
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks many would agree that you are flogging a dead horse N'esy Pas?
Justin
Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: So let it burn, just because?
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Justin
Gunther: Methinks its because even the boss of the Green Meanies would
agree that we get the governments we deserve N'esy Pas?
Justin
Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @David Amos:
What we have is a government that only works properly when its citizens
hold it accountable. That's what I've been taught, at least.
But I think I understand where you're coming from.
Lou Bell Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: How's the " Me Party " of 5 doing ? Leadership Convention planned ? Table for 5 at Timmies !!!
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Lou Bell: I am no party of any politcal party and I don't go to Timmies because the RCMP enjoy harassing folks there
Lou Bell Content disabled Reply to @Lou Bell: The Trump / Pence wannabes ticket - Dave and Tony !
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Lou Bell: You and the RCMP know that I don' know your buddy "Tony"
Ed Smith
So the MLAs who voted
against this would rather support the parents who want to be able send
their unvaccinated kids to school and endanger kids who can't get
vaccinated?
Sad day for science. I really thought our MLAs were a bit more
intelligent than this. Why are we bothering to waste all this money on
universities. Let's just go back to how they did things in the Middle
Ages and base policy on the noisy crowd. They'll be after witches next.
David Amos
Reply to @Ed Smith: I am kinda fond of certain witches so trust that i would come to their defence
Esteban Burke Reply to @Ed Smith:
science includes mathematics, you have no idea what reasons those 1% of
people have for filing NMEs and it could be for a single vaccine. I hope
you welcome being judged someday yourself, more and more it’s sadly
becoming the Canadian way.
Esteban Burke Reply to @Ed Smith:
Middle Ages? Let’s look at CDC data shall we? CDC is Health Canada’s
chief research partner by the way and most of the science on our vaccine
schedule comes from them.
Deaths per 100,000; measles
1904 - 11.0
1920 - 8.8
1962 - 0.2
A 99%+ reduction in deaths in just 58 years. Vaccine for measles first
arrived in? 1963! All that reduction without vaccines. Instead of going
back to the Middle Ages, how about we take each VPD and examine whether
it follows the pattern seen with measles or not in the 50 years prior to
each disease’s vaccine arriving. Or are you scared to see what the
science actually says?
Michel
Pelletier
Reply to @Esteban Burke: you nailed it
Ed Smith
Reply to @Esteban
Burke: Sure. I'll ignore the fact that the World Health Organization,
every major medical organization, the health departments of practically
every country, province, and state in the world all support immunization
of children. And I'll assume that you know better.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Ed Smith:
they don’t support compulsory vaccination without informed consent but
if straw man fallacies are all you’ve got...
fred cooper
Reply to @Ed Smith:
There has never been a documented case of an unvaccinated child giving a
disease (that they don't have) to an immuno-compromised child. There is
however, cases of vaccinated children giving other vaccinated children
the disease that they are immunized against. There is also a phenomena
called vaccine shedding, you should look that up, before you blame the
unvaxxed child.
John Grail Reply to @Ed Smith: Saying "science" over and over again proves nothing
Randy
McNally
Reply to @Ed Smith:
It's a sad day for science when DC is a spokesman for it. And where did
you ever get the idea that politicians are intelligent? Ambitious -
yes. Attention seekers -check. but intelligent - no more than any
other segment of society and in some cases far less.
Dan Boulin
The very last sentence in this article:
“Asked if an eventual COVID-19 vaccine should be mandatory, Coon said, "I'll have to think about that."
- And what exactly do you need to think about, I ask?
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Boulin: the next election
Dan Boulin
Reply to @David Amos: Precisely
ANNE MILLAR
Where are the rights
and freedoms of those people who are unable for medical reasons to be
vaccinated? Who will protect them from communicable diseases which are
very dangerous for them. And in response to another comment, for those
who cannot for medical reasons be vaccinated, yes one person with the
disease is scary. Whatever happened to the belief in the greater good
for our community.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @ANNE MILLAR: Perspective is everything sometimes.
Jan Toffe
Reply to @ANNE MILLAR:
Anne You are falling for Minister Cardy's nonsense. Whether a few
more kids are vaccinated or not is not going to help those the
immuno-compromised.
The fact is we will always have flu's, and colds around, that they must
avoid. We will always have whooping cough outbreaks because that is a
failing vaccine, we will always get small measles outbreaks, these
vaccines are not perfect so the immuno-compromised have to be careful
anyways or stay home.
Raising the vaccination level 2 points will not help them.
Anyways most parents against this Bill 11 are not against all vaccines,
they just do not want to get them all, there are so many now. Sure get
you measles vaccine, but do I really need all these new ones, some of
dubious benefit and risk?
David Amos Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks your buddy Cardy just learned that the hard way N'esy Pas?
Justin Gunther
Content disabled The vaxxers don't even know why they're mad.
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks you should think again N'esy Pas?
Michael
Henheffer So one of the big
arguments I have seen for the side against this is that it was the
government overstepping its bounds in telling people what to do and
taking away freedoms. Can any of them explain to me how this is
different than having to have a license to drive or having to have a
seatbelt on? To use government funded roads, I have to follow their
rules on seatbelts, cars, traffic laws, insurance, etc. How is that not
overstepping bounds if this bill was?
Justin
Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Michael
Henheffer: It's because enough people are already getting the vaccines
to reach herd immunity. Therefore, it's an UNnecessary power grab based
on all available information.
Bob Smith
Content disabled Reply to @Michael Henheffer: You can't figure it out? Really? Injection is not learning to drive.
Bob Smith
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: If herd immunity already existed, this would have never been
brought up. I find your argument about "power grab" lacks any merit and
evidence.
Justin
Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Bob Smith: I
don't know what to tell you other than research the issue at hand.
There are other news stories out there with relevant data. Have a nice
day Bob.
Bob Smith
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: Other news stories...like links to anti vaccine sites? I know
what vaccines protect people against and the horrors the diseases can
produce. I don't base my knowledge on invalid claims and histrionics.
Justin
Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Bob Smith:
Oh I think there's some on the global platform, definitely others here
at the CBC. Probably CTV as well. I don't think I have ever visited an
"anti-vaccine" site per se.
Jan Toffe
Reply to @Michael Henheffer: Seat belts and traffic laws are a terrible example. They dont have serious risk like V.
David Amos Reply to @Justin Gunther: I repeat our children are not cattle
Michel Pelletier
Reply to @David Amos: and yet we immunize cattle
David Amos Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Cattle are property People are not
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Michael
Henheffer: seat belts cannot cause encephalitis just by virtue of being
correctly buckled, vaccines can even when being correctly administered.
I’m glad you asked and I hope this clears it up for you.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Bob Smith:
erm, they already admitted herd immunity existed in the hearings, were
you not watching? Cardy said this was a preventative measure.
Jesus Murphy
Reply to @Michael
Henheffer: ... it isn't different. I am against all that BS ... and so
are more and more people everyday. #Voluntaryism
David Amos Reply to @Esteban Burke: Trust that I know far more about encephalitis than you and your hero Cardy do
Matt Smith
Put it to a referendum.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Matt Smith:
Why? So the UNinformed public can make the wrong decision? Do you
understand the significance of the vote going this way even with the
full push of the state broadcaster behind it?
Do you understand how the bill is completely UNnecessary?
David Amos Reply to @Justin Gunther: Do you understand what happened?
Randy McNally
Reply to @Matt Smith: We have a representative parliamentary democracy so why do we need a referendum
Justin
Gunther
Content disabled Let's make a deal with the Minister:
You actually teach the kids how to read, and we'll reconsider your bill
based on available information the next time this finds its way into the
news cycle.
Thank you for doing the minimum.
Bob Smith
Content disabled Reply to @Justin
Gunther: I'll make you a deal. When the Covid vaccine comes out for
society, I expect you to get your shot as a responsible member of
society. If not, stay home and out of society. Thank you for that choice
you should make.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Bob Smith: Have a nice day Bob.
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Bob Smith: Good luck trying to make me take a shot
Justin Gunther Content disabled Regardless of your opinion on vaccines, this bill was an unjustified overreach based on available information.
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: You seem confused
Michel Pelletier Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: no you are
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Dream on
Phoenix Muranetz
Until there are
proper studies done on the safety and effectiveness without interference
from said pharmaceutical companies themselves - this Victory is an
example of when people continue to stand by the rights of freedom.
Bob Smith
Reply to @Phoenix Muranetz: Remember this when the Covid vaccine comes out. You're free to stay home, out of society...
David Amos
Reply to @Bob Smith: Who are are you to suggest such things?
Randy McNally
Reply to @Bob Smith: Do we really have any reason to believe that there will be a COVID vaccine.
George Smith
CBC you need to read
your own News. This story has been decided. When that happens the out of
date story shouldn't appear on the same page as the current up to date
one that clarifies the situation. Simple to do. Why isn't it done?
David Amos Reply to @George Smith: Go Figure
Rob Mason
Reply to @David Amos: Dennis is that you?
David Amos Reply to @Rob Mason: I am exactly who i say i am More importantly do I know you?
Chris Merriam
The voting public will remember what happened today.....laughing stock of the country.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Chris Merriam: I don't think you actually understand the facts at hand.
David Amos Reply to @Justin Gunther: Do you?
Bonnie Cox
I hope for the sake of the NAY sayers... they are not in my riding... TERRIBLE decision... let US vote on it...
David Amos Reply to @Bonnie Cox: Why?
Justin
Gunther
Content disabled I don't understand.
Based on prior reporting by our state broadcaster it sounded like a
foregone conclusion the vote would go strongly the other way? But thank
YOU Minister Cardy for having YOUR voice once again heard on the state
broadcaster, acting like everyone who voted nay is your intellectual
inferior.
We all appreciate everything YOU'RE doing, since this is apparently YOUR show.
Bonnie Cox
Content disabled Reply to @Justin
Gunther: on this topic they ARE his intellectual inferior... damn petri
dishes going to school with the children of responsible parents..
Justin
Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Bonnie Cox:
I don't think you actually understand the relevant facts. I think you
know what Dominic Card has told you. Have a nice day.
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Bonnie Cox: Wow are you related to Cardy?
Terry Tibbs
Content disabled Reply to @Justin
Gunther: He's not acting...he proceeds as if he believes most people are
his inferior. And that is why He never wins. And That is what he
doesn't get. He never says for example; "I think" or "I believe' or "in
my opinion" - He just spouts off as if he knows
Terry Tibbs
Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: Mother/ girlfriend? shrink?
Jeff LeBlanc
Well that's democracy for you.
David Amos Reply to @Jeff LeBlanc: Kinda Sorta
Randy
McNally
Reply to @David Amos:
Like our silver tongued former pseudo - potus, GW Bush once proclaimed
" This sure would be a lot easier if it was a dictatorship" Or
something like that
David Amos Reply to @Randy
McNally: A far wiser old Yankee PT Barnum used to proclaim "People want
to see a circus so you give them a circus"
Methinks Higgy et al trust that I am enjoying playing my part in the
ongoing circuses in Fat Fred City and Ottawa since I first ran for a
seat in the 38th Parliament N'esy Pas?
David News
Sad day for the
health and welfare of the kids. Remember this next time there is a
breakout of measles and schools close and the government has to spend $
on health care that would not have been required.
Randy McNally
Reply to @David News: I thought pseudonyms were not allowed here.
Kat Burd
Reply to @Randy McNally: There is an impassible gulf between the rules and the reality here.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Kat Burd: Careful Randy you can get banned for that.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @David News: Yes we're all terrified of the one person Measles outbreaks we've seen recently. Absolutely horrifying.
David News
Reply to @Justin Gunther: ah hmmmm
Jan Toffe
Reply to @David News:
This is a fantastic day, parents can now decide for themselves how many
vaccines their kids need instead of lobbyist controlled governments.
There are to many Vacc now. Note that over 40% of our kids now have at
least one chronic health condition, how much does dozens of injections
have to do with this??
David Amos Reply to @Kat Burd: and that is really your name
David Amos Reply to @Randy McNally: Thats a myth
Brahbra
Concord
Reply to @David Amos: Stop trying to find peoples facebook account. It's getting creepy
David Amos Reply to @Brahbra
Concord: Methinks I already I told ya that I don't do Facebook However i
do recall you suggesting that I find yours because you don't do Twitter
like Higgy and I do N'esy Pas?
David News
Reply to @Jan Toffe:
Jan, are these the same parents that decided it was not worth the money
to get internet installed in their homes so that the kids could
participate in the E Learning that was happening through out covid19?
Brahbra
Concord
Reply to @David Amos:
I never suggested you try to find me online. I have never even said the
word twitter on this forum before. I find it unsettling that you think I
did. Please stop being so creepy towards me
David Amos Reply to @Brahbra Concord: Methinks everybody knows where to go to verify what you did state N'esy Pas?
Rob Mason
Reply to @Randy
McNally: Reply to @David News: I thought pseudonyms were not allowed
here. Says the guy using the name of a book of maps!
Jan Toffe
Reply to @Justin
Gunther: Horrifying? Why? No one died. But we have 1000's of fentylal
overdoses, 2500 car crash deaths a year in Canada. many deaths from
snow mobiling, boating, drowning etc. We dont ban cars.
Any ways I am not against the measles vaccine, I think we should all get
it, but I am very much against Bill 11. It is just the first step to
forced vaccination for all including you. They they just keep adding
more and more vaccines to the list, there is another 100 in the pipe
line right now. When is there too many?
Randy
McNally
Reply to @Rob Mason:
Alas... I was much too young and to weak to argue thus, it's been my
handle since the beginning. Just call me map guy.
Mack Leigh
Wow, looks like David Coon and his MLA's have sitting on the fence down to a science......... Absolutely pathetic.
David Amos
Reply to @Mack Leigh: Naw they were just playing politics for their benefit
Sue Powell Reply to @Mack Leigh:
Sue Powell
Reply to @Sue Powell:
what you call science is big pharma sponsored studies to continue
making big profits. Do your own research. Independent anti-vaccines
studies are never in mainstream media. Ever wondered why? Censorship.
John Grail
Reply to @Mack Leigh:
They tried to propose alternative amendments and options. Why vote on a
bill that means nothing and would get challenged (and likely lose) as a
charter violation
Randy
McNally
They may not know it
but this is a victory for the people, the constitution, and the charter
of rights and freedoms. And this is why minority govt's are good for the
people
Bob Smith
Reply to @Randy
McNally: ...and if science and common sense had won the vote, you would
have argued against minority gov't bills. I know how folks spin
things...
Randy
McNally
Reply to @Bob Smith: This bill had nothing to do with science
Randy
McNally
Reply to @Randy
McNally: Where's the double blind studies? Where's the control groups,
the placebo groups , the trials? When it comes to Vaccines the public
are the guinea pigs
G Rex
Reply to @Randy
McNally: I tend to agree with you. Minority rights are a very
important part of a "democracy". That being said, I also suspect
(hope?) that there will be such a small number who exercise their right
to opt out that it will have minimal effect on those who have to opt out
for medical reasons. Of course it will have no effect on those who opt
for the vaccine.
David Amos Reply to @Randy McNally: I Wholeheartedly Agree Sir
Bob Smith The anti science crowd wins the day :(
Jos Allaire
Reply to @Bob Smith: And the money loses for once.
David Amos
Reply to @Jos Allaire: Mais Oui
Buddy Best
Reply to @Bob Smith:
Even in a communist country you have choices. No so much here.
Mandatory? Tax on red book value not purchase price!!!!!
Jan Toffe
Reply to @Bob Smith:
In your opinion. Now start looking at the science yourself, the truth is
somewhere in the middle, as usual.
John Grail Reply to @Bob Smith: The pro-Charter freedoms on the Day.
John Grail
Reply to @John Grail: *won
John Smith Another win for anti-science. So much for my thoughts that the Greens might be better.
Dan Armitage Reply to @John Smith:
rights and anti science don't play together. Your more than welcomed to
go get a shot but you sure as ???? aren't entitled to tell me what I
have to do
David Amos Reply to @Dan Armitage: I agree
Buddy Best
Reply to @John Smith:
What next? Mandatory chip inserts? democratic and free? Not here if
these laws keep forcing compliance on personal choice. It died this time
but what does the future bring?
John Grail Reply to @John Smith: All to authoritarian vaxxers have is ad hominem attacks and poisoning the well.
MLAs vote to drop notwithstanding clause from mandatory vaccination bill
Contentious legislation seeks to remove religious, philosophical exemptions for school children
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Jun 16, 2020 5:58 PM AT
A committee of MLAs have voted to remove the notwithstanding clause from
Education Minister Dominic Cardy's mandatory vaccination bill. (Gilbert Rowan/CBC)
A committee of MLAs has voted to remove the controversial notwithstanding clause from a bill on mandatory vaccinations.
Members
of all parties, including the governing Progressive Conservatives,
voted unanimously to strike the clause, which would have protected the
proposed law from future constitutional challenges in court.
That
could improve the odds that the bill will eventually pass, since some
Liberal MLAs have said they could only vote yes to the legislation if
the clause was removed.
The bill would eliminate religious and philosophical exemptions
from the requirement that children be vaccinated if they attend public
schools. It will take effect for the 2021-22 school year.
Victoria-La
Vallée Liberal MLA Chuck Chiasson introduced the amendment to remove
the clause after accusing Education Minister Dominic Cardy of moving too
fast to take away people's rights without looking at other options such
as education campaigns.
Liberal MLA Chuck Chiasson says use of the notwithstanding
clause creates 'a slippery slope' and other alternatives should be
pursued.
"Once the freedom is gone it's good for good, and if we're
going to take away rights and freedoms, we better have tried every other
alternative and we better have a darned good reason," Chiasson said.
"I
fear that we're headed down a slippery slope that we don't need to head
down at this time, because there are alternatives. I for one just won't
be part of it."
Chiasson emphasized that he was speaking for himself and not for his party.
All
Liberal MLAs are allowed a free vote on the legislation, and Premier
Blaine Higgs has said all PC members, including cabinet ministers, can
also vote their consciences.
PC
MLA Bruce Northrup has already said he will vote against the
legislation, while other Tories have said they will wait to see the
final amended version of the bill before deciding.
The
legislation would allow Public Heath officials to establish a list of
required vaccinations. Children not vaccinated for any reason other than
health concerns would not be allowed to go to public schools starting
in the fall of 2021.
The goal is to immunize enough children to
create herd immunity so that the small number of children who can't be
vaccinated for medical reasons will still be protected from an outbreak.
Controversial clause
Last
fall, Premier Blaine Higgs said government lawyers had concluded the
bill would not be constitutional unless it invoked the notwithstanding
clause, which would exempt it from sections of the Charter of Rights and
Freedoms, including those on freedom of religion.
But after
Liberal objections, Cardy said he'd be willing to take it out to win
more votes for the legislation. No one from the government spoke against
Chiasson's amendment Tuesday.
Education Minister Dominic Cardy says the current exemptions are 'often abused.' (CBC)
Chiasson, the party's education critic, pointed out that last
year, Dr. Noni MacDonald, a well-known Nova Scotia pediatrician, called
mandatory vaccine laws "a simple solution to a complex problem."
She
called for better education campaigns to persuade parents, something
Chiasson said Cardy should try before he passes a bill infringing on
rights.
"Why would we not try that before we went down the road of mandatory vaccinations?" he asked.
Cardy
responded that the existing system already violates the rights of
children who can't go to school because they have weakened immune
systems and the risk of an infection is too great.
More vaccinations would create herd immunity that would make it safe for them, he said.
People's Alliance Leader Kris Austin says he's struggling on which way to vote. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
People's Alliance
Leader Kris Austin inched closer to a clear statement Tuesday on how
he'll vote, saying he'll be "hard-pressed" to support something that in
his view violates parental rights.
But he concluded his questions to Cardy without declaring what he'll do, saying he was "really struggling" with how to vote.
'This is a balancing of rights'
Cardy
acknowledged Tuesday that it's still not possible to provide a clear
picture of vaccination rates in schools. There is no breakdown of how
many exemptions are religious, how many are philosophical and how many
are for valid medical reasons.
But he said the existing
exemptions are "often abused," with people claiming medical reasons when
there are none or citing supposed religious prohibitions to
vaccinations that don't exist.
He also admitted that parental
rights would be limited by the bill but he said the education system
already limits other rights when it prevents students from bringing
weapons, or even peanut butter, to school.
"This is a balancing of rights," he said.
Tuesday's committee session adjourned without a final vote on the bill. Debate is expected to resume Wednesday afternoon.
110 Comments Commenting is now closed for this story. (Some comments were deleted before I could save them)
David Amos Go Figure
"Last fall, Premier Blaine Higgs said government lawyers had concluded
the bill would not be constitutional unless it invoked the
notwithstanding clause, which would exempt it from sections of the
Charter of Rights and Freedoms, including those on freedom of religion.
But after Liberal objections, Cardy said he'd be willing to take it out
to win more votes for the legislation. No one from the government spoke
against Chiasson's amendment Tuesday."
Terry Tibbs Reply to @David Amos:
Not another case of the Higgs shuffle, or maybe a Higgs shuffle with a
twist, the twist of ignoring the government lawyers (what would they
know anyway?) setting the whole thing up for failure............
I do know 1 thing though, when politicians say things like "it's a
balancing of rights" it most surely isn't by any stretch of anyone's imagination.
Jos
Allaire "He
also admitted that parental rights would be limited by the bill but he
said the education system already limits other rights when it prevents
students from bringing weapons, or even peanut butter, to school. "
Peanut butter and butter tarts!
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Jos
Allaire: Methinks Cardy partakes of way too many butter tarts so the
fear of peanut butter easily overcomes him N'esy Pas?
James Smythe Higgs
now proposes mandatory injections of Irving oil into all New
Brunswickers and their children in order to bolster demand for fossil
fuels.
David Amos
Reply to @James Smythe: Please don't give Higgy any ideas
Bruce
Ellingwood Keep
a record of those MLA's that vote in favor of Bill 11 and regardless of
party affiliation, work on their riding association to replace them, or
if that fails, follow them to all public events and remind them of
choice.
Bob Smith
Reply to @Bruce
Ellingwood: Why would you suggest that? MLA's are supposed to vote
according to what they believe is best for everyone, not just science
deniers.
Dan Stewart
Reply to @Bob Smith:
Really makes little difference, regardless of what anti-vaxers think
they are such a small minority it really matters not.
James Smythe
Reply to @Bob Smith: I
think you’re confusing “freedom lovers” with “science deniers”. I’m an
avid proponent of science, but also of small government that doesn’t
tell me how to live my life. Besides, if vaccines are such excellent
protection, and you opt to receive one, what difference does it make if
somebody else doesn’t? I’ll just wait here for your mental gymnastics
routine that will surely follow.
David Amos
Reply to @James Smythe: Well Put Sir
Mary Smith Reply
to @James Smythe: It's like if you don't wear a seat belt in the car,
and the other passengers do. You say "I don't need to wear one, you
have yours" and then there's crash. What do you think will happen to
the person without a seat belt on? They'll become a projectile, hitting
and crashing into those wearing their seat belts, causing bodily harm.
We're all in the same car. What you do matters, and has ripple effects beyond your decision.
You don't vaccinate yourself or your kids, not because of medical
exemption, but because you opt out for personal belief reasons. You
could give it to someone who gives it to their sibling who is still to
young to have received all of their shots. To an infant. To a pregnant
mother, complicating her pregnancy and potentially causing life
threatening and damaging consequences to the fetus. To someone who is
immuno-compromised. To someone who can't be vaccinated for legitimate
medical reasons.
Or even to someone who did everything right, got their vaccines, but
didn't create enough antibodies and doesn't have enough to be considered
immune - it's rare, but it can happen - as it did to this doctor in NS:
"We still have one doctor who tested negative [for measles immunity],
despite the fact that he has been vaccinated and had all of his
vaccinations. And so he can't work for two weeks on account of this
person." This happened because the hospital was exposed to a Measles
patient and they had to test everyone to see if they had enough of the
Measles antibodies to be considered immune, and this one doctor fell
below that threshold and had to go into isolation, potentially could
have contracted Measles even though he did everything right.
Reply to @James
Smythe: "I’m an avid proponent of science, but also of small government
that doesn’t tell me how to live my life."
No one is telling you that you even have to have vaccines. Just that
you need them to attend public school, except if you can't get one for
legitimate medical reasons. If you opt out of vaccines, you opt out of
public school and must either send your child to private school, home
school them, or do online learning.
You're not allowed to bring peanut butter to most schools. You
shouldn't be allowed to attend if you don't have all of your vaccines.
You should not be allowed to opt out of vaccines for personal reasons.
This bill isn't for mandating vaccines, you can still opt out, but if
you opt out, you opt out of your child physically attending public
school too. You have the freedom of choice, but you aren't free of the
consequences from that choice.
Mary Smith Reply
to @Mary Smith: But also, with that said, I think "better education
campaigns to persuade parents" should be implemented if this bill can't
pass in the form originally proposed. Have a campaign so that those who
opt out, must at least be informed of what it is they're opting out of,
and thus making an informed decision. Education is key, and if we can
have people make well informed decisions based on science and not out of
ignorance, we all win. If we go down that path, and people are still
opting out of vaccines for personal reasons, then we should revisit this
bill in it's original form - if you opt out of vaccines, you'd still be
free to do that, but you wouldn't be free from the consequences of
those actions, which would be either homeschool, private school, or
online learning.
Content disabled
Reply to @Mary Smith:
>NO< (and I'm not wasting my time arguing with you) (so that is 2X no)
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Methinks lady doth protest too much N'esy Pas?
Terry Tibbs
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos:
Methinks somebody is somebody elses paid shill.
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Me Too
Terry Tibbs Content disabled Reply to @David Amos:
POOF! (guess I was right)
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Already blogged it
James
Smythe Reply
to @Mary Smith: Your misplaced analogy makes for mildly entertaining
sensationalism bordering on ridiculous hyperbole, but a more accurate
representation would be that we are all driving our own car. My wearing
or not wearing a seatbelt in the event of an accident between us has no
bearing on your survival if you are wearing one.
What you do has ripple effects in your car as well if you’d like to
continue this analogy. Let’s say for example you’re changing your radio
station as the light is turning green, and you’re 2 seconds late in
advancing on said green. The person behind you takes an on-ramp to a
highway, where they are then sideswiped by a truck and pass away in the
accident. Had you not been playing with your radio that extra 2 seconds,
this wouldn’t have happened. So you’d be comfortable being charged as
an accessory to their untimely death in this case? We can’t hold
everybody infinitely and retroactively culpable for the infinite amount
of possibilities that may arise from our actions.
Dave Ladd
Reply to @Mary Smith:
You are entitled to your opinion. But that's all it is - just an
opinion. I am happy that my opinion counters yours.
Mary Smith
Reply to @Dave Ladd: I
have some question for you (or any anti-vaxxer), if you don't mind. Is
it that you think there's little chance of catching these illnesses,
because everyone else is vaccinated, so you feel like you don't have to
if they all do, benefiting from the herd immunity we provide? Or is it
that you think that the cure is worse than the illness, because we're so
far removed from seeing these illnesses up close, and the harm they
cause? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/quarantines-disease-outbreaks-halifax-1.5568067
Is it that you think that the death toll is low enough, and you assume
that if you caught it, that you'd survive, with no complications if you
do survive? Now what about something with a terrifying death toll,
like Ebola? Average death toll for Ebola is 50%, ranging from 25% to
90%, taking out the healthy and strong and the ill alike. Do you think a
vaccine is justified for something as devastating as Ebola, should an
Ebola pandemic occur? What if the vaccine needed several doses, like
other vaccines, and children would be vulnerable until say 3, until
they've received all their doses, would you be okay with snapping your
fingers and having 50% of those under 3 die from Ebola, should an
outbreak happen? When the threat is that high, do you think the cure is
worse than the illness than if 50%, or even up to 90% of those who
catch it die?
Mary Smith
Reply to @Mary Smith: I have some questions* for you
Rob Mason
Reply to @James
Smythe: Talk about mental gymnastics. Mary made a cogent argument, you
went off the rails with the on ramp tangent!
James
Smythe
Reply to @Rob Mason:
No, her analogy was off the rails and an invalid comparison. I made a
valid comparison that you simply don’t agree with, because it’s given
you cognitive dissonance, and now you’re uncomfortable.
Bruce Ellingwood Parents /guardians who agree with forced vaccinations sure put an enormous amount of faith in for profit chemical corporations.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Bruce Ellingwood: Yup
Dan Stewart
Reply to @Bruce
Ellingwood: Hmm, What do Parents /guardians who disagree with
vaccinations based nothing more than pseudoscience and the odd celebrity
put their faith in?
Bruce Ellingwood
Reply to @Dan Stewart: The facts are out there, stay willfully blind.
Dan Stewart
Reply to @Bruce Ellingwood: LOL... Yep, thats it Bruce... you know all the facts.. You are so SMRT!
Bruce Ellingwood
Reply to @Dan Stewart: Ditto Danny !
Dan Stewart
Reply to @Bruce Ellingwood: Just keep believing Bruce! The truth Is Out There (cue X-Files theme)
John Grail Reply
to @Bruce Ellingwood: Let's hope NB's MLAs still vote against this
bill. It seems to be trying to cure problems that just don't exist.
Justin Gunther Content disabled Reply
to @John Grail: Certain commenters on this story are likely not even in
New Brunswick, and possibly have never been in New Brunswick based on
simple Google searching. It's hard not to have an online presence these
days. Go-go vaccine apologists.
Have you been to New Brunswick?
John Grail
Reply to @Justin Gunther: It doesn't matter what province a story is in. I am very alarmed at any government overreach.
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: Trust that I googled you weeks ago
Harvey York
Reply to @David Amos: my, how very creepy of you
David Amos Reply to @Harvey York: Obviously there is no need to do so with you
Harvey York Reply
to @David Amos: those of us who have managed to lead fairly normal
lives and keep our noses clean normally don't appear in google searches.
Feel free to look me up on Facebook, however
David Amos
Reply to @Harvey York: Methinks anonymous tr o lls are more than merely creepy n'esy Pas?
Harvey York Reply to @David Amos: got nothing on you, actually you have my sympathies.
Justin Gunther Content disabled Are
there so many religious/philosophical objections that it's impossible
to reach herd immunity without making vaccines mandatory? If we're only
talking about a few fringe people who have no idea what they're talking
about, and clearly no valid reason to hesitate, shouldn't herd immunity
be reached without making it illegal to go to school without it?
What is it, 70% required for herd immunity? So does this mean you are
literally attempting to force at least 30% of parents to vaccine their
kids? That's a large fringe.
Somebody help me understand this. I am admittedly not a subject matter expert on vaccines.
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: In a nutshell our children are not Cardy's cattle
Dan Stewart Content disabled Reply to @Justin
Gunther: That probably is the case. Frankly had governments and school
boards enforced the laws we have on the books about vaccinations most of
this new law would have probably been moot.
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Dan Stewart: Are you a lawyer?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: Or is your first name Jake?
Dan
Stewart
Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: LOL... looking for some free legal advice Dave?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dan Stewart: Ask your hero Higgy or his buddies in the RCMP whether I need legal advice or not
Dan
Stewart
Content disabled Reply to @David Amos:
Wouldn't it be better to ask someone who actually knew who you were? I
mean other that just... Oh, that Guy...
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dan
Stewart: Call Erin O'Toole I was talking to him earlier today about when
we butted heads in Nova Scotia back in 2004/05 or Roger Brown the
current Chief of the Fat Fred City Finest He knows me.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dan Stewart: So Jake why don't you answer your emails or return my phone calls?
David Amos Content disabled Reply
to @Justin Gunther: "Nobody in this thread has a verifiable NB presence
based on googling their name and "New Brunswick." That's all I'm
saying."
Try it again
Greg Miller So will the law have "teeth" or are we wimping out?
Bob Smith
Reply to @Greg
Miller: I doubt the bill will be passed. The anti vaccine crowd will
shout huzzah and return to their out of province residences to fight a
vaccine for Covid whenever it comes forth, using the same arguments.
David Amos
Reply to @Greg Miller: I hope you are whimping out
Bruce Ellingwood
Reply to @Bob Smith: Covid does not need a vaccine. The cure is already out there in hCq.
Bob Smith
Reply to @Bruce Ellingwood: You're not suggesting hydroxychloroquine, are you? I mean, seriously?
Dan Stewart
Reply to @Bruce
Ellingwood: Kind of funny to see someone complain about drug companies
in one post then promote them and their use in an other...
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dan Stewart: Methinks its incredibly comical to see your hero Higgy oversee the selling of dope N'esy Pas?
Dan Stewart
Reply to @David Amos: Nothing any more comical around here Dave than you... You should charge admission!
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dan
Stewart: Its Higgy's circus not mine and I presume that you must be one
of his minions named Jake because you did not deny it
Dan Stewart
Reply to @David Amos: Boys you sure do presume a lot of things... I see now why you need so many alter egos...
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dan Stewart: I do not pretend to be anyone else like you do
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: POOF
John Grail Reply to @Greg Miller: Let's hope this violation of rights gets shut down entirely.
Jeff Leblanc There you go. Say your kid is super religious and no vaccination is needed. Happy now?
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: WOW
Chantal LeBouthi Cardy a NDP turn conservative for a job and now want to force and control poeples
Worst minister in nb
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Oh My My
Lou Bell
Reply to @Chantal LeBouthi: And it appears SO DO THE SANB Liberals !!!!!!!!!!!
valmond landry MR.
HIGGS scraps legislation to increase emergency power of government and
police .second, scrap compulsory requirement to wear masks in public
places third drop the withstanding clause from mandatory vaccination
bill ,now that's a good indication of what kind of government we would
have if they ever had a majority government what a disaster !
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Hmmm
Dave Ladd
Reply to @valmond landry: All good decisions based on feedback from the people. Sounds like democracy to me....
Lou Bell
Reply to @valmond
landry: So you think all 3 should have not been back tracked !! Maybe
the Liberals should have DISCLOSED and back tracked on their 130 million
dollar " Phonie games " !!!
Much-anticipated mandatory vaccination debate begins in N.B. legislature
Review of contentious Bill 11 extended into Wednesday
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Jun 09, 2020 6:12 PM AT
The controversial Bill 11 seeks to eliminate philosophical and religious
exemptions from the requirement for schoolchildren to be vaccinated. (Gilbert Rowan/CBC)
Education Minister Dominic Cardy has warned his fellow MLAs that the issue of mandatory vaccinations won't be going away.
Cardy
made the comments as a committee of the legislature began a
long-awaited consideration of Bill 11, his legislation to eliminate
philosophical and religious exemptions from the requirement for
schoolchildren.
"When faith in science and institutions is
coming under more threat and pressure than at probably any other point
in our lifetimes, this bill is a firewall to protect our
schoolchildren," Cardy said.
"Because this won't be the end of the discussion. Vote yes or no
on this bill, if there's a vaccine for COVID-19, how will we have that
conversation? These are the problems we're all going to face as
legislators. The question now is what we do about it."
Education Minister Dominic Cardy said Tuesday his bill is a 'firewall to protect our schoolchildren.' (Submitted by the Government of New Brunswick)
The committee's review of the bill is expected to continue Wednesday.
Bill
11 would eliminate all non-medical exemptions to the requirement for
vaccinations, including those on religious and philosophical grounds.
An
earlier version of Cardy's bill was introduced long before the COVID-19
pandemic, and the bill has no specific reference to the coronavirus,
for which no vaccine is expected to exist until next year.
The
legislation would apply to a list of vaccines established by Health
Canada. Children not vaccinated for any reason other than health
concerns would not be allowed to go to public schools starting in the
fall of 2021.
The
goal is to immunize enough children to create herd immunity so that the
small number of children who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons
will still be protected from an outbreak.
The
first version of the bill was harshly criticized by anti-vaccination
activists who testified during three days of committee hearings last
summer.
In the wake of those hearings, some MLAs from all four
parties in the legislature said they were undecided whether to support
the bill.
Fairness questioned
On Tuesday afternoon,
Liberal MLA and education critic Chuck Chiasson questioned the logic
behind some aspects of the bill, such as the fact it applies to children
but not to adults working in schools.
"If you're a child and
you're not vaccinated, you cannot attend school," he said. "If you're an
adult and you're not vaccinated, you can attend school.
"To me
it just doesn't sound like something that is — I could say — fair. It's
not affording exactly the outcome that the minister is looking for."
Liberal education critic Chuck Chiasson said he was frustrated with the lack of information coming from the education minister.
He also said it
was hard to decide on how to support the bill when Cardy, citing privacy
rules, wouldn't provide a breakdown of how many exemptions are medical,
how many are philosophical and how many are religious.
At one point Chiasson said he was frustrated with how long Cardy was taking to answer his questions.
"I
don't need all this pomp and ceremony around each question that I ask,"
he said. "I find it kind of disturbing that I have to keep digging and
digging just to get that straight answer."
Cardy explained that
because of physical distancing requirements, he was relying on staff to
help him answer questions via a digital device and that's why his
replies were taking so long.
Notwithstanding clause
In
his questions, Chiasson did not broach a key issue for the Liberal
opposition: the bill's invocation of the notwithstanding clause from the
Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which would shield the bill from a
constitutional challenge.
Both the Liberals and the Greens have said they will try to remove the clause.
At
last summer's hearings on the first version of the bill, one national
anti-vaccination organization threatened to challenge the
constitutionality of the legislation if it passed.
Cardy
responded with a new version of the bill last November citing the
notwithstanding clause of the charter. That would exempt the bill from a
charter challenge on a number of grounds, including sections that
guarantee freedom of religion.
Premier Blaine Higgs is giving
all his MLAs, including his cabinet ministers, a free vote on the bill.
The Liberals are expected to vote in unison against the bill if the
notwithstanding clause stays in but will be able to vote freely if it
comes out.
The Greens and the People's Alliance have also raised concerns about the use of the notwithstanding clause.
PC ministers spar over vaccination bill, but debate unexpectedly delayed
Attorney General Andrea Anderson-Mason voiced discomfort with Education Minister Dominic Cardy's bill
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: May 27, 2020 4:38 PM AT
Education Minister Dominic Cardy wants to use the notwithstanding clause
to fend off court challenges to his mandatory vaccination bill. (CBC)
The long-awaited and potential decisive phase in New
Brunswick's debate over mandatory vaccinations was abruptly put on hold
Wednesday.
MLAs were poised to begin studying Education
Minister Dominic Cardy's Bill 11, which would eliminate all non-medical
exemptions to the requirement for vaccinations, including those on
religious and philosophical grounds.
But the sitting of the
legislative committee that was going to examine the bill was abruptly
called off when Cardy had to attend a special meeting of the
government's all-party committee on COVID-19 happening at the same time.
"It
would be impossible to have proper debate on this bill without his
presence, so committee was delayed until next Tuesday," said Caraquet
Liberal MLA Isabelle Thériault.
Opposition MLAs on the committee hope to amend the bill in a way that could make or break its chances of passing.
Both
the Liberals and the Greens will try to remove the bill's use of the
notwithstanding clause from the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. By
invoking the clause, the legislation is shielded from a constitutional
challenge.
Attorney general voices concern
At the same time, two Progressive Conservative cabinet ministers continue to spar over the need for the legislation.
Attorney-General
Andrea Anderson-Mason has repeatedly signalled she's not comfortable
with the bill, and in a recent Facebook post implicitly rejected Cardy's
description of its opponents.
"I was originally told that the
only people who would oppose this bill would be people on the fringe,"
she said in a May 24 post. "That was incorrect."
Andrea Anderson-Mason MLA Fundy The Isles Saint John West
Thank you!! I asked a question and wow, you responded and you (for the most part) were respectful.
What I learned: I learned that the topic of mandatory vaccinations can
be an emotional issue. People who support Bill 11 can be as assertive as
those who oppose it.
The vast majority of people fall somewhere in the middle. ...See More
She said that "being told by government what you can or cannot do with your body does not settle well."
Cardy said Tuesday he was not concerned with his PC cabinet colleague's comments.
"I
think Andrea Anderson-Mason's comments have been pretty clear, and I
think mine are as well, and I'm happy mine are backed by science and
reason, and I'm happy to go forward on that basis," he said.
Andrea Anderson-Mason, minister of justice and attorney
general, has signalled concern about the government telling people what
they can or cannot do with their bodies. (Radio-Canada)
Cardy also repeated his criticisms of opponents of the bill,
including protestors on the lawn of the legislature Tuesday who didn't
practice physical distancing from each other.
He described them as people "who subscribe to a vague, weird Trumpian ideal of how the world works."
The
unusual public spectacle of two ministers sparring over a piece of
legislation would normally be untenable in the Westminster system of
cabinet government.
But Higgs is allowing all his MLAs, including his ministers, a free vote on the bill.
"I
don't relish the idea of two ministers duking it out in the public, but
it is what it is," he said Tuesday. "They can each vote their own
way."
Anderson-Mason did not respond to an interview request Wednesday.
Bill would come into effect fall 2021
Cardy's
bill was introduced long before the COVID-19 pandemic and has no
specific reference to the coronavirus, for which no vaccine is expected
to exist until next year.
The bill would eliminate
philosophical, religious and other non-medical exemptions from an
existing requirement that all school children be vaccinated.
Children
not vaccinated for any reason other than health concerns would not be
allowed to go to public schools starting in the fall of 2021.
An
earlier version of the bill was harshly criticized by anti-vaccination
activists who testified during three days of committee hearings last
summer.
In
the wake of those hearings, some MLAs from all four parties in the
legislature said they were undecided whether to support the bill.
One national anti-vaccination organization threatened to challenge the constitutionality of the legislation if it passed.
Cardy responded with a new version of the bill last November that includes the use of the notwithstanding clause of the Charter.
That
would exempt the bill from a Charter challenge on a number of grounds,
including sections that guarantee freedom of religion.
People's
Alliance Leader Kris Austin said he's concerned for government
overreach with the current makeup of the bill. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
Liberal Leader Kevin Vickers said this week his party remains
"concerned" about the preemptive suspension of Charter rights and will
try to amend the bill to take out the clause. That will make it more
likely that some Liberal MLAs can vote for it.
Cardy said again this week he is willing to remove the notwithstanding clause."For
me, it wouldn't be a compromise," he said. "I have no issues with the
notwithstanding clause not being included. I felt the bill would stand
without it and I'm very happy to support it without it."
Vickers
said the debate is really about "the best way to get the most number of
people vaccinated" and said Liberal MLAs would also be able to vote
freely on the bill.
Green Party Leader David Coon said his party
will also introduce amendments, including one to remove the
notwithstanding clause. Another would give chief medical officer of
health Dr. Jennifer Russell the power to decide when the bill takes
effect.
Liberal Leader Kevin Vickers said his party will try amend the bill to remove the notwithstanding clause. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
Meanwhile, People's Alliance Leader Kris Austin sounded a sceptical note about the legislation.
He
said whether the notwithstanding clause stays in the bill or comes out,
it's use is an acknowledgement the legislation is not constitutional.
"For
me the real question is more about people's right to choose for
themselves," he said, questioning whether school staff, health-care
workers and eventually other government employees will also be subjected
to similar laws.
"Where do we stop?" he said. "It's about government overreach to me."
Cardy
said he's optimistic that there will be enough MLAs from all parties
who see the merits of the bill, especially with COVID-19 highlighting
the importance of vaccinations.
Jacques
Poitras has been CBC's provincial affairs reporter in New Brunswick
since 2000. Raised in Moncton, he also produces the CBC political
podcast Spin Reduxit.
David Amos Methinks
whereas the Minister of Health is a lawyer I bet some folks would like
to know where Teddy Baby stands on the need for Cardy's vaccination
legislation and his latest scheme about the notwithstanding clause N'esy
Pas?
Lou Bell Guess
some politicians have less of a concern for the health of their
constituents than others ! Not really surprising . Money trumps doing
the right thing . Move on Ms. Anderson- Mason , you've had your 15
minutes of infamy .
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks you are losing your faith in Higgy et al N'esy Pas?
Mary MacKenzie
Reply to @David Amos: If you're going to use French, perhaps type it correctly.
David Amos
Content disabled
Surprise Surprise Surprise The legislature just adjourned til June 9th
john smith Content disabled treating healthy people as lepars is really quite rich
Aibreann Carey
Content disabled Reply to @john smith:
Putting children at risk of serious consequences from preventable disease is unconscionable.
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @john smith: I agree
Aibreann Carey
Content disabled Reply to @john smith:
No it isn’t a “false argument”.
Vaccination eradicated polio in India, where the population was “healthy” until they weren’t.
john smith
Content disabled Reply to @Aibreann Carey: bill gates is banned from india for the injuries he caused
Aibreann Carey
Content disabled Reply to @john smith:
No he is not.
No he did not.
Fact checked. Correct.
john smith
Content disabled Reply to @Aibreann
Carey: 496 000+ that are paralysed between 2000 and 2017 would say
different likelwise the folks in ukraine and many parts of africa would
join the chorus
Aibreann Carey
Content disabled Reply to @john smith:
That is a proven inaccuracy, favoured and promoted by antivaxxers who
oppose eradication of polio for some reason that remains known only to
them.
john smith
Content disabled Reply to @Aibreann
Carey: hey it syour soul man i would never stop you from injecting what
you want in your body but to force it into mine well thats a special
kinda mindset their
john smith
Content disabled Reply to @john smith: you might want to find a more reputable place then snopes to get your facts bud
Aibreann Carey
Content disabled Reply to @john smith:
Do what you like.
Choosing to become a public health menace has consequences. Not punishment: consequences. Up to you.
Aibreann Carey
Content disabled Reply to @john smith:
You’re talking to yourself.
You might want to fact check for yourself, accurate and reliable sources not found on YouRube or antivax rubbish.
Bud.
Aibreann Carey
Content disabled Reply to @john smith:
No it could not. There is no parallel whatsoever.
john smith
Content disabled Reply to @Aibreann Carey: source materials not accurate enough lol ok roger
Aibreann Carey
Content disabled Reply to @john smith:
Say what?
Tom Simmons
Content disabled Reply to @Aibreann Carey: LOL
John Grail
Content disabled Reply to @Aibreann Carey: Nice retort. No actual evidence, just shouting "not true"
Aibreann Carey
Content disabled Reply to @John Grail:
“Not true” is an accurate description of what is false.
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @john smith:
Methinks it should not matter what Kevin Vickers says about actions
within the legislature until he gets elected and is sworn in. However
folks certainly should ask him why i sued the Queen in 2015 because of
his actions against me since 2004 N'esy Pas?
Potential COVID-19 vaccine has re-energized anti-vaccination groups, health experts warn
Misinformation out in full force, and health officials must catch up, scientists say
Nicole Ireland · CBC News · Posted: Jun 29, 2020 4:00 AM ET
A scientist works in a laboratory in Oxford, U.K., where a potential
vaccine against COVID-19 is going through early phases of clinical
trials. (Steve Parsons/Pool via Reuters)
As Canadians yearn for an end to the COVID-19 pandemic and a
time they can once again hug their elderly loved ones or gather in large
groups without fear of infection, many are pinning their hopes on
unprecedented global efforts to develop a vaccine against the virus.
But
even though most infectious disease experts say the earliest possible
timeframe would be at least a year or two away, anti-vaccination groups
are already well into online and social media campaigns stoking
doubts about the safety — and even questioning the necessity — of a
coronavirus vaccine.
"I just am astonished at how early the
anti-vaccine narrative has started," Dr. Natasha Crowcroft, a vaccine
expert at the University of Toronto's Dalla Lana School of Public
Health, said in an interview with CBC's The Dose health podcast.
"We are really facing a major, major challenge," Crowcroft told podcast host Dr. Brian Goldman.
"And unless our public health leaders can generate a lot of trust, it's going to be very, very difficult."
That's
because anti-vaccination groups have become extremely savvy
communicators and "seem to be much better" than public health experts at
reaching out to a variety of people with different ideologies — from
those who distrust pharmaceutical companies to those protesting public
health lockdowns aimed at curbing the spread of coronavirus, Crowcroft
said.
The global focus on developing a coronavirus vaccine is
unlike anything ever seen before, says Dr. Natasha Crowcroft, a vaccine
expert at the University of Toronto's Dalla Lana School of Public Health
and a senior technical adviser with the World Health Organization. (Claude Martel)
Anti-vaccination groups in both Canada and the U.S. are
positioning themselves as advocates for what they call "personal
freedoms" and "medical choice" in the midst of the coronavirus
pandemic — posting content online and on social media that not only
targets vaccination, but also protests the closure of
businesses, physical distancing requirements and the wearing of
masks.
Vaccine Choice Canada — one of the most high-profile
anti-vaccination organizations in this country, announced in a letter
posted to its website on May 13 that it was "launching legal action
against the Government of Canada and others for violating our rights and
freedoms during the COVID-19 outbreak."
In a June 18 episode
of Digi-Debates posted on YouTube, the president of Vaccine Choice
Canada, Ted Kuntz, claimed that COVID-19 was no more deadly than
influenza — and argued that a vaccine was unnecessary.
WATCH | Need to address questions and doubts about vaccines, epidemiologist says
Epidemiologist
Dr. Christopher Labos says the vast majority of a population needs to
be vaccinated in order to develop herd immunity. 1:58
But infectious disease and public health experts widely agree
that COVID-19 is far more lethal than the flu. According to the Public
Health Agency of Canada, more than 8,500 deaths in Canada have been related to COVID-19.
Based on the agency's most recent available data, deaths from influenza
were far fewer. The 2018-19 flu season claimed the lives of 224
people, while just over 300 people died of influenza in the 2017-18
season.
CBC reached out to Vaccine Choice Canada via its media
relations email address and also sent a Facebook message to Kuntz
inviting him to comment further but did not receive a response before
deadline.
LISTEN | How close are we to an effective vaccine for COVID-19?
The Dose
I want life to get back to normal. How close are we to an effective vaccine against COVID-19?
As we
continue to grapple with the COVID-19 pandemic, most of us are anxious
to return to normal life, when we can hug our elderly parents or
grandparents and once again gather in large groups. Many experts say
that can't happen safely until a coronavirus vaccine is developed. In
this unprecedented time, researchers around the world are working toward
that goal, but it has to be done safely and follow a careful scientific
process. Dr. Natasha Crowcroft, a vaccine expert at the the Dalla Lana
School of Public Health at the University of Toronto, joins host Dr.
Brian Goldman to help explain how close we are to an effective vaccine
against COVID-19, the barriers we must overcome to get there, and what
we need to do in the meantime. 20:40
Part of the strategy used by anti-vaccination groups has been
to take legitimate cautions by some well-recognized physicians in the
U.S. that the quest to find a coronavirus vaccine must not be rushed and
that it must go through all of the necessary steps to ensure it is safe
and effective — and then misrepresent those comments as arguments
against a vaccine, said Jonathan Jarry, a science communicator in the
Office for Science and Society at McGill University in Montreal, which
has a mandate to debunk misinformation for the public.
"We have the beginnings of a perfect storm on our hands [to fuel vaccine misinformation]," Jarry said.
In
the midst of a worldwide pandemic and an unprecedented effort to
develop a vaccine as quickly as possible, many people have questions
and anxiety about the process, he said.
At the same time, Jarry
said, the anti-vaccination movement is "seemingly re-energized and ...
pushing a lot of misinformation and disinformation and lies and fuelling
that anxiety."
Seniors have been particularly hard hit by the coronavirus,
with many deaths occurring in long-term care homes. Physical distancing
measures, like this see-through barrier at a B.C. retirement home, is an
effort to keep seniors safe during the pandemic. Some infectious
disease experts say it may not be fully safe to hug elderly loved ones
until an effective vaccine or treatment is developed. (Maggie MacPherson/CBC)
To combat that, both Crowcroft and Jarry agree, it's essential
that public health officials, physicians and community leaders talk
openly and transparently with Canadians about the vaccine development
process and directly answer their questions and concerns — and they need
to start now.
"There's a small sliver of the population that
is ferociously anti-vaccination. And it's very difficult to reason with
these people," Jarry said.
"But there's a larger segment of the population that is vaccine-hesitant. And that is where our efforts need to be invested."
'The current situation is so different'
One
of the key concerns that needs to be directly addressed is how a
coronavirus vaccine can be developed more quickly than any vaccine
before it and still be safe, Jarry said.
The
answer, Crowcroft said, is that "the current situation is so different
that it is possible to get through the development steps faster without
cutting any corners that might compromise safety."
It normally takes "years and years and years" to develop a vaccine, she said. "I mean 10 years would not be unusual."
A
big part of the reason for that, Crowcroft said, is that scientists
often come up with a vaccine candidate but have a difficult time getting
funding to move it to the next phase of clinical trials, because every
trial stage is expensive and pharmaceutical companies are hesitant to
risk spending enormous amounts of money on a product that could fail at
the next stage. Plus, there's often no guarantee there will be a market
for the vaccine even if it does work.
But
in the midst of a pandemic, the pharmaceutical industry is confident
that the demand for a vaccine exists, she said. In addition, governments
around the world are providing funding for vaccine development, which
removes the potential for a huge financial loss if a company invests in a
vaccine candidate that doesn't succeed in the end.
"Governments
are helping to speed things up by funding the trials so they can go on
in parallel and/or the gaps between each step are shorter, without the
long delays for decision-making about whether the company wants to take
the [financial] risk of moving forward," said Crowcroft, who was
recently appointed a senior technical adviser for the World Health
Organization's measles, mumps and rubella program.
Because of
that, there are more than 100 different vaccine candidates in various
phases of research at the same time around the world, increasing the
odds that at least one, possibly more, will prove to be safe and
effective, she said.
WATCH | States brace for impact of COVID-19 surge in U.S.:
Some
parts of the U.S. are bracing for the impact on hospitals as cases of
COVID-19 surge amid a lack of political will to respond. 2:01
Because of advances in genetic sequencing, scientists' ability
to learn about a new virus is also more advanced than it has ever been
in the past, giving researchers a head start in figuring out what part
of it to target with a vaccine.
"Nothing in the history of humankind has ever been seen like this before," Crowcroft said.
Finally,
she said, amid all the hype as companies put out news releases boasting
about their progress in vaccine development, it's "important to
remember that the press release does not determine whether a vaccine
will eventually be used."
It's up to each country's regulatory
agency, such as Health Canada, to determine whether a vaccine can be
used and be independent of any industry influence.
"Safety cannot be compromised," Crowcroft said. "Health Canada will see to that. It is their statutory responsibility."
In
an emailed statement to CBC, Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada's chief public
health officer, said that before any vaccine is approved for use in this
country, "Health Canada conducts rigorous scientific reviews and
testing of the vaccine to assess the quality, safety and effectiveness."
"Once a vaccine is in use, health authorities continue to monitor the vaccine to ensure ongoing highest standards of safety."
'Empathy' and 'building trust'
But
if these kinds of questions about safety, as well as other
concerns, aren't dealt with directly by public health officials — or if
the public doesn't trust them — anti-vaccination voices will fill that
void with misinformation, Jarry warns.
The most effective way
to talk to people who are vaccine-hesitant, he said, "all boils down to
empathy and to listening and to building trust."
It's important
not to criticize people for expressing concerns, even if they are based
on misinformation that has long ago been debunked, he said.
"If
we ignore them because we don't have time or if we ignore them because
we think they're silly, the anti-vaccination movement will end up
polarizing the vaccine-hesitant segment of the population against
vaccination," Jarry said. "And then vaccine uptake is going to keep
going down."
We've already seen the toll that vaccine refusal can take with the re-emergence of measles, he said.
Crowcroft
estimates that for a coronavirus vaccine to be effective at protecting
the population, between 60 and 70 per cent of people need to be
immunized.
"I'm not sure we're doing everything we can yet to
prepare," she said. "We really do need to start, you know, having those
discussions with communities and building relationships so that they do
trust in their [public health] leaders."
An ad from the Ontario Medical Association aimed at combating overall vaccine hesitancy is pictured in a bus shelter. (Paul Smith/CBC)
In her statement
to CBC, Tam said she recognized that "vaccine hesitancy is still very
much an ongoing issue within Canada and worldwide."
"In
collaboration with my provincial and territorial colleagues and other
stakeholders, foundational work has already begun to prepare for the
possible release of a safe and effective COVID-19 vaccine in Canada, if
and when it becomes available," Tam said.
That
work, she said, would include "developing strategies and resources to
inform and educate to build vaccine confidence as well as combat stigma,
misinformation and fear around the release of a new vaccine."
The
Public Health Agency of Canada, which Tam heads, said in a separate
statement to CBC that "efforts to inform and educate to build vaccine
confidence are part of the agency's regular business" and that it would
use similar information and social media campaigns "when a new COVID-19
vaccine is released to ensure that Canadians have the proper information
to inform their choice to receive the vaccine when available."
Nicole
Ireland is a CBC News journalist with a special interest in health and
social justice stories. Based in Toronto, she has lived and worked in
Thunder Bay, Ont.; Iqaluit, Nunavut; and Beirut, Lebanon.
Reply to @Sandy Gillis: If you truly cared about weighing risks, you would be urging everyone to end animal exploitation.
Tina Falco
Reply to @Sandy Gillis:
Here's the information on HPV
Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Vaccines as an Option for Preventing Cervical Malignancies: (How) Effective and Safe?
Lucija Tomljenovic 1, Jean Pierre Spinosa, Christopher A Shaw
John is doing a much better job than I ever could, no need to have me contribute.
Neil Gregory
These
anti-vaccination groups present a clear and present danger to the health
and lives of Canadians. In spite of what the Charter of rights and
freedoms says about free speech, it should be a crime to people at risk
be spreading false and misleading information.
Reply to @Brian
Cohen: You know, animal flesh. The stuff you deny having health
consequences despite centuries of observational evidence proving the
contrary.
John Grail
Reply to @Brian
Cohen: A chemical with harmful consequences is toxic even in low doses.
Especially over prolonged periods of time. Not sure what part of basic
biology you fail to grasp.
Victor Neale
I am baffled by the
attitudes of anti-vaxxers. They seem to have zero sense of history. If
they grew up in the middle of the 20th century, as I did, they might
have some clue of the damage done and fear caused by diseases like polio
and even measles.
If they had grown up in the 1920's and 1930's they'd have a grasp of the
havoc wreaked on families by diphtheria and whooping cough and other
deadly child-killing diseases people barely remember today.
Before you anti-vaxxers start preaching about the "evils" of medical
science, you would do well to spend a little time in a library and learn
something about the topic. Especially the history of vaccine
development in the 20th century. Because you sure don't seem very well
informed now.
Reply to @Anne
Lacourt: We could save WAY more lives if we cut out animal exploitation.
The animals' lives themselves, the animals' lives used to create and
develop vaccines, and the lives saved by not contributing to the main
cause of pandemic illnesses. Plus all the lifestyle ailments resultant
from unnecessary flesh consumption.
John Grail
Reply to @Alan
Douglas: Speaking of illogical ploys, you do realize there are
biological foreign agents and toxins in those package inserts, right?
Vaccine Choice Canada Is Launching A Legal Challenge
By Vaccine Choice Canada
Vaccine
Choice Canada (VCC) is filing a legal challenge against federal,
provincial and municipal governments in Canada for their handling of the
SARS-CoV-2 infection.
Severe Curtailment of Civil Liberties
Over recent months, Canadian citizens have experienced the following grievous violations of charter rights:
severe curtailment of civil liberties with the mass and indiscriminate containment of citizens
the imposition of masking, physical distancing, limits to socialization, and contact tracing
the shutdown of economic activity and resulting job losses
the effective closure of our parliaments and courts of justice denying citizens a ready recourse
The impact of these measures on our physical, emotional,
psychological, and economic well-being is profoundly destructive and
clearly not sustainable.
We recognize that governments may enact laws and pursue policies that
limit Constitutional rights and freedoms, but the onus is on the
government to prove that the limit is minimal, necessary, finite, and demonstrably justifiable in a free and democratic society. All levels of government have failed to do so.
Indeed, that is why our legal challenge is necessary – to
ensure that the government’s response and restrictions placed upon
citizens is minimal, necessary, finite and demonstrably justifiable From Speculation to Evidence
When the SARS-CoV-2 virus first presented in January 2020, there was
much speculation about the potential impact of this coronavirus.
Predictions of wide-spread infection with high rates of mortality
persuaded governments globally that unprecedented containment measures
were necessary to save us from certain peril. We understand and
appreciate the need for caution during times of uncertainty.
While there is more about the SARS-2 coronavirus that needs to be
understood, emerging evidence clearly demonstrates that the mathematical
modelling used to justify extreme containment measures is invalid.
Further, the vast majority of the population is not at serious risk of
complications or mortality as a result of exposure to SARS-2.
The drastic isolation measures that were imposed are not supported by
scientific evidence. There is considerable agreement in the scientific
community that not only are such drastic measures unrealistic
and unsustainable, but that these measures are likely to increase overall morbidity and mortality.
Many weeks ago, the statistical models used by the government to
impose draconian lockdowns were significantly downgraded. This should
have immediately prompted our governments to modify and rescind lockdown policies.
No Government Transparency, No Empirical Scientific Data
Vaccine Choice Canada made numerous formal requests
of the Government of Canada and various provincial governments to
provide the scientific evidence and data to justify the violations of
our Constitutional rights. To date this requested scientific evidence
has not been provided.
There is abundant, severe and valid criticism from recognized experts
in Canada and globally who dispute the government’s position and
response to SARS-2. [1][2][3][4]
These experts concur that the decisions of governments have been based
on unsupported assumptions and epidemic modelling rather than empirical
evidence.
As a result, there are valid reasons for Canadians to be concerned
that an over-hyped SARS-2 pandemic narrative is creating unwarranted and
unnecessary panic. Further, this panic is being used by governments to
justify violations of the rights and freedoms that form the basis of our
society, including our constitutional rights, sovereignty, privacy,
rule of law, financial security, and even our very democracy.
It’s possible these violations will become even more egregious as
Prime Minister Trudeau and others have repeatedly declared that “life will not return to normal until a vaccine is found.”
Implied in this message is that, should a vaccine for SARS-2 be
developed that is deemed “safe and effective,” the vaccine would become
mandatory for all citizens, regardless of the risks and violations of
rights.
It is increasingly apparent that the imposed interventions and
government overstep is far worse than the virus itself, and that
decisions are being made based on a political or ideological agenda
rather than on scientifically supported, evidence-based practices. It is
obvious that the real epidemic we face is an epidemic of fear and state
sponsored tyranny on a global scale.
It is imperative and urgent that Prime Minister Trudeau, all elected
officials and public health officers lawfully, clearly, and openly
reveal the statistical modelling, the scientific evidence and
epidemiological data that justifies the continued violations of the
rights and freedoms of Canadians.
The Government of Canada needs to honour the duty and sacred trust
given them and sworn by them to protect our democratic and free country,
our livelihoods and communities, and to ensure that the rights and
freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution are first and foremost. It is
the responsibility of our leaders to defend both the health and prosperity of Canadians. These goals are not in conflict but reinforce one another.
This Legal Action is Fully in Alignment with the Vaccine Choice Canada Mission Statement
Vaccine Choice Canada has a long and enviable history of protecting
our rights and freedoms in Canada, including the right to informed
consent, bodily sovereignty, and the right of parents to make medical
decisions for their dependent children.
While our focus and commitment is to ensure the right of citizens to
informed consent, especially pertaining to the medical practice of
vaccination, at the heart of our work is the protection and preservation
of the rights and freedoms that make Canada an enviable place to live.
We have been emboldened by the generous support we have received from
the wider community who increasingly recognize the need to protect our
rights and freedoms and are grateful that Vaccine Choice Canada
continues to be an organization that passionately defends these
freedoms.
During times of emergency, constitutional rights do not stop being important. They become even more important.
Standing Committee on Law Amendments Notice of Public Hearings and Call for Briefs
An Act Respecting Proof of Immunization (Bill 39)
The Standing Committee on Law Amendments, an all-party committee of the Legislative Assembly, is seeking public input on Bill 39, An Act Respecting Proof of Immunization.
The purpose of Bill 39 is
to remove non-medical exemptions from the mandatory immunization
requirements for public school and licensed early learning and child
care admissions. The Bill requires students attending public schools and
children in licensed early learning and child care facilities to
provide either proof of immunization or a medical exemption on a form
signed by a medical professional.
The Committee seeks your
input through public hearings with respect to the issues raised by Bill
39. The public hearings will be held in the Legislative Council Chamber
of the Legislative Assembly building in Fredericton, New Brunswick.
Individuals or organizations from the legal or medical profession are invited to appear on August 27. Individuals or organizations representing parent groups or the teaching profession are invited to appear on August 28. All others are invited to appear on August 29.
If you wish to appear on
Bill 39, please notify the Office of the Clerk of the Legislative
Assembly by phone [(506) 453-2506] or email by August 7, 2019. Those not wishing to appear are invited to submit a written brief by email by September 6, 2019.
July 11, 2019 – New Brunswickers invited to comment on two legislative proposals – News Release – Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick On June 7, 2019 the New Brunswick Legislature passed the First Reading of Act Respecting Proof of Immunization,
which “would remove non-medical exemptions from the mandatory
immunization requirements for public school and licensed early learning
and child care admissions. The amendments are to the Education Act and the Public Health Act.” Press Release from the New Brunswick government.
CBC – New Brunswick moves toward mandatory immunization for students – Legislative amendments introduced Friday would remove all non-medical exemptions June 11, 2019 – Second Reading did not pass – bill was debated and referred to Standing Committee on Law Amendments – view archived webcast here (see 1:03:30 to 1:07:00 and again at 1:15:00) Resources, letter ideas, MLA contact information below.
Dear New Brunswick Parents and Residents,
Thank you for standing strong and being warriors in the battle to
protect our rights and freedoms. As all of you are aware, our right to
parental decision-making, therapeutic choice, informed consent, and
bodily sovereignty are all being threatened by the intention of the current New Brunswick
government to “remove non-medical exemptions from the mandatory
immunization requirements for public school and licensed early learning
and child care admissions. The amendments are to the Education Act and the Public Health Act.” This is Not A Medical Issue
This is a critical time in the evolution of our society. The
for-profit medical industry and corporate controlled media would have
you believe that we face a dire threat of deadly infectious diseases
unless each and every one of our children are fully vaccinated. This is
not true. This fear mongering is a distortion of the risk. There is no medical justification for imposing vaccine mandates. And the risk of vaccine injury is completely ignored by our medical industry and governments.
Whether you are a parent who has confidence in the vaccine paradigm,
or one who is questioning the claims of ‘safety and effectiveness’, what
we all can agree on is that, as citizens of a free country and as
parents, we ought to have the right to choose. Vaccines have known
risks, including death. Where there is risk, there must be choice.
These efforts to impose medical decisions upon individuals and
families is not isolated to New Brunswick. In fact, there is a global
movement that is well-funded and well organized by the medical industry
to deprive citizens around the world of their right to choose. Right
now, there are protests in many countries – Italy, Poland, Australia,
United States and India demanding protection of our right to choose and
bodily sovereignty. This is a Civil Rights Issue
This is not a medical issue. This is a civil rights issue. This is
the largest and most important civil rights issue since the civil rights
movement in the United States in the 1960’s, and the movement to give
women the right to vote. The impact of this civil rights movement
affects every human on the planet. The medical industry
is actively committed to removing our right to say ‘no’ to unwanted
medical interventions that carry risk. This, by an industry that carries
no legal liability for the harm, injuries and deaths caused by their
products.
Unfortunately, our politicians are acting in ways that are eroding
our rights rather than protecting them from greedy and morally corrupt
corporations. And our mainstream and social media have been fully
captured by the corporate agenda and financing and can no longer be
trusted to tell us the truth. This is why a movement of parents is so
critical. Educate and Insist
With this letter are a number of documents to assist you to take a
stand. Some of documents we encourage you to print and deliver
personally to your MLA. We will start with an education strategy. We
will demand that our MLAs support our right to informed consent,
therapeutic choice, parental rights and bodily sovereignty. We will let
them know, in very clear language, that if he or she does not stand
behind our right to choose, that we will do all we can to have them
removed from office. Civil Disobedience May be Needed
We also need to be prepared to exercise non-violent civil
disobedience. Whenever we go along with a law or requirement that is
legally and morally wrong, we give validity to that law or requirement.
Our greatest power is in not going along with what is wrong.
Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state becomes lawless or corrupt.
– Mahatma Gandhi
We appreciate that in the short-term this may create discomfort and
chaos. However, we need to refuse to go along with dictates and demands
that are illegal and immoral. Ontario parents have figured out after two
years of ‘education sessions’, forced affidavits, and school
suspensions that they must not go along. Parents are now refusing to
attend education sessions, sign affidavits, and are continuing to send
their children to school even when they have received a notice of
suspension.
This is a time to stand up, be brave and claim our power as parents.
We need to ensure the bullying tactics of the for-profit medical
industry do not succeed. Don’t count on our politicians or media to
fight this battle for us. Each of us must be willing to step up and say –
‘I do not consent’. You are the one you’ve been waiting for.
Thank you for your courage and your leadership.
Sincerely,
Vaccine Choice Canada Vaccine Action Ideas
Write a letter to the Premier, Health Minister and MLAs. Give the
letter to your MLA. Have a copy for yourself and refer to the letter as
you speak to your MLA. For letter ideas see this page and additional resources below.
Invite your MLA into a discussion about your shared goal to have healthy children.
Ask your MLA some of the questions listed below.
Before leaving, ask your MLA if you can count on them to support
your right to informed consent, parental rights, and therapeutic choice.
Get a copy of a vaccine insert and ask your MLA if he/she has read it.
Leave copies of the other documents with him/her.
Say you will follow up in a week after they have had a chance to read the materials to see if they have any questions.
Questions to Ask Your MLA?
What do you hope vaccine mandates will accomplish?
What is the medical emergency that necessitates the loss of individual and parental rights?
How is a dozen cases of measles a medical emergency?
How many measles related deaths have there been in Canada in the
last 10 years? Answer: 3 deaths, 1 adolescent (age 15-19 years) and 2
adults, 2007-2016. Significantly, NO child less than 15 years old, nor
infants or young children have died from measles.
If the justification is measles contagion, why are other vaccines being tracked or forced on families?
Why is autism not considered an epidemic when it affects 1 in 79 children in New Brunswick?
Is NB intending to implement a vaccine injury compensation plan?
What screening is being planned to identify those with mitochondrial disorders who would be harmed by vaccines?
Who will be held accountable for vaccine injuries and deaths?
Will you support our right to informed consent and parental rights?
Key Messages
No childhood vaccines tested for safety using an inert placebo.
No evidence vaccines produce better overall health.
No medically justified reason to impose vaccine mandates.
No evidence eradication can be achieved with vaccines.
Most vaccines are not designed to prevent transmission.
Live viral vaccines shed up to six weeks post vaccination (why are recently vaccinated children not suspended from school until they stop shedding?).
No evidence that injecting pregnant women is safe.
Vaccines are liability free products. No incentive for vaccine manufacturers to make better or safer vaccines.
Claims of vaccine industry are exaggerated.
Vaccine-autism link has not been debunked. It’s been suppressed.
Systems to provide oversight and safeguards have been captured or eliminated.
No independent oversight. No legal oversight. No media oversight.
Financial conflicts of interest is the norm.
The International Bill of Human Rights protects the right of informed consent.
Less than 1% of vaccine injuries are reported.
Canada is the only G7 Nation without a national vaccine injury compensation
The safety of injected mercury and aluminum has never been established. Both were grandfathered in.
All vaccines should be carefully evaluated, both individually and in long-term studies, and then, synergistically, for toxicity with other vaccine
Strategy
Defining the terms of a debate is halfway to winning it – use the
language of ‘pro-vaccine choice’, parental choice, freedom of choice,
freedom of speech
Be precise, passionate, and assertive.
Demand that our rights and freedoms be respected.
Do not accept compromises. There is no compromise to freedom.
Awareness brings responsibility. We have a responsibility to warn others of vaccine injury.
Ted Kuntz’s Appeal to New Brunswick MLAs re: Bill 11 Vote
By Vaccine Choice Canada
Sent via Courier – delivered to the NB Legislature May 22, 2020
May 20, 2020
Dear [sent to all NB MLAs]
RE: Bill 11 – An Act Respecting Proof of Immunization
It is my understanding that Members of the Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick will soon be asked to affirm or reject Bill 11: An Act Respecting Proof of Immunization.
I am writing to you in my capacity as President of Vaccine Choice Canada.
Vaccine Choice Canada is a community of Canadians
who are vaccine risk aware, many of whom have personally experienced
vaccine injury and death in their own families. VCC has many active
members in New Brunswick and enjoys the support of many of your
citizens. Our members are deeply concerned with the intention of the
proposed legislation to purposely and egregiously violate the
constitutional rights and freedoms of New Brunswick citizens.
I am aware of the sentiment held by some legislators that they ought
to consider solely the perspectives of New Brunswickers, and that the
concerns and opinions of individuals and families outside of New
Brunswick are not relevant or welcome.
However, I suggest that the decision of your legislature pertaining
to Bill 11 has the potential to affect the rights and freedoms of all Canadians.
The intense lobbying for the removal of current exemptions based on
religion and consciously held belief is a Canada-wide issue.
Further, I suggest that the Minister of Education, in his quest to
impose a liability-free medical product upon all children in the
province, regardless of the wishes of their parents, is being influenced
by sources outside of New Brunswick and Canada.
During my time in New Brunswick in August 2019, when I presented to
the Committee on Law Amendments, I did not witness New Brunswick parents
actively lobbying the Minister for the removal of their right to
informed consent, bodily sovereignty, and to make medical decisions for
their children.
For those members of the legislature who were not privy to the information presented to the Committee on Law Amendments, I’ve taken the liberty to include my comments with this letter. I offer my summary statement here:
“Bill 39 (11) effectively gives the state the power to decide
what is injected into our body and our children. This legislation
eliminates the medical ethic of informed consent, removes therapeutic
choice, denies a parent’s right to make medical decisions for their
children, disregards bodily sovereignty, invites discrimination, and
undermines a child’s right to a public education. Bill 39 (11) also
removes a critical mechanism of accountability – voluntary choice.”
This is an historic moment in New Brunswick. This is the moment when
you, as an ethically bound representative of the individuals and
families in your community, have an opportunity to clearly support the
inalienable right to freedom of conscience and religion granted to us by
the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is also an opportunity
to unambiguously affirm the autonomy and sovereignty of New Brunswickers
as free citizens, whose right to informed consent is safeguarded for
this and all future generations.
New Brunswick already has high vaccination rates, some of the highest
in Canada, and low infection rates. There is no medical justification
to violate the constitutional rights and freedoms of New Brunswick
citizens.
I implore you to uphold fundamental human rights and to abstain from
enabling state overreach. I ask you to thoughtfully consider if evermore
impositions, restrictions, and impediments on the lives of New
Brunswick families is possibly in the public interest.
Respectfully,
Ted Kuntz, parent
President of Vaccine Choice Canada
Health, July 29, 2009 - Miramichi
H1N1 pandemic update
Dr. Paul Van Buynder, deputy chief medical officer of health, provided
an update on the H1N1 pandemic on Thursday, July 30, in Miramichi.
From left: Dr. Denis Allard, regional medical officer of health, East
Region; Van Buynder; and Ginette Pellerin, director of Public Health
for Regional Health Authority B - Miramichi zone 7 and Moncton zone 1.
MLAs struggle with how to vote on mandatory vaccination for students bill
Law amendments committee hears from New Brunswick Pharmacists'
Association on final day of hearings
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Aug 29, 2019 3:23 PM AT
397 comments
David Amos
Methinks i should remind Mr Cardy and his cohorts about what went down
10 years ago between New Brunswick's vaccination expert Dr. Paul Van
Buynder the deputy chief medical officer of health and I N'esy Pas?
So Dr Van Buynder are you and the politicians still attempting to call
me crazy today? Also do you have apersonal lawyer?
I must ask Minister Mike Murphy how many Death Threats should I
recieve and and how many times should my children be sexually
harrassed before it is proper from me to sue the Crown and you as
well? Call me crazy but I take such things kinda personal.
You and T.J. Burke got your knickers in quite a knot years ago over a
mere weathergirl statement correct? What would you do Mikey if you got
locked up in a hospital that you were master of disater of and
assaulted and injected with drugs based on false allegations while
bloggers where having a hay day violating your privacy. Then wait for
over a year for an old friend to have it investigated. When i make
inquiries as to the the results of an investigation everybody plays
dumb orI am told by such people as Megan Cumby not to call back or I
will be arrested AGAIN?? When I finally get talk to Doctor Banic he
PRETENDS that he does not even remember meeting meinside the hospital
that you oversaw as Minister. One thing I do know about myself is that
I am very hard to forget once you have met even briefly. I am certain
that the infamous blogger Chucky Leblanc and his old buddies the
politcal lawyers Bernie Lord and Bruce Noble would have to agree with
that simple statement.
On the topic of what I call the WHO FLU whats gonna happen if a lot of
folks you serve and protect get sick and jam up the hospital just
because they took Van Buynder's advice and people become aware of this
email before the news broke about the flu shot today EH? Well Mikey
Baby now that you are the Attorney General do ya wanna settle on
behalf of the CROWN or wait until I sue ya personally too?
Scroll down you can never deny that you didn't ask the RCMP to
investigate my concerns long before the stock market took a dive. Now
that all the taxpayers have top up your pension plan losses to the
tune of what was 300 million a year, I must ask the obvious question.
Do you think that you and all the overpaid bureaucrat have even earned
your wages let alone deserve a pension when legions of taxpayers are
losing their jobs and their life savings as well because people such
as yourself refused to act within the scope of your employments since
I first began making the CROWN aware of my concerns in early 2002???
In closing in must say the Dr may wish to call me crazy again because
I don't show resopect to power or position. In my book respect is
earned not demanded and I feel compeeld to remind him of an Oath TO DO
NO HARM if he has no conscience at all. I am not crazy because I
disagree with his decions and offer evidence to support that thinkinf.
It is still supposed to be a democracy CORRECT? As far as that
outspoken French dude on welfare Chucky Leblanc methinks he bites the
hand that feeds way too much to suit mean old me. His constant
bitching in his blog about shady six million daollar deal during the
flood is chump change. If you wish to make abig splash locally look to
the budgets then apply the same problem globally.
This email is about the heath of all people and the world economy. Get
it stupid?
I guess i should forward this email to New Zealand because I thinking
about moving there. I hear they like bike mechanics down there and i
can't get a job to keep me out of the cold up here. It appears nobody
wants me around because the politicans and the cops have put the word
out. Thus before I go I really should keep my word file some some
rather imporatant in Federal Court N'esy pas? Methinks for the benfit
of my conscience and the well being of others I should file something
about the FLU first. However I really think I should file about my
rights under Section 2 of the Charter. everybody and hiis dog knows I
was very illegally banished fot the Legislative properties in 2004
while I was running in the election of the 38th Parliament of Canada
and are to chicken to talk about it because my lawsuit would be a slam
dunk then CORRECT?
•Working to keep the flu out of the pews
•Ontario delays fall flu shots over H1N1 threat
•Kids will require two H1N1 shots
. Article Comments (63) Patrick White
Winnipeg — From Monday's Globe and Mail
Last updated on Monday, Sep. 28, 2009 08:27AM EDT
.A “perplexing” Canadian study linking H1N1 to seasonal flu shots is
throwing national influenza plans into disarray and testing public
faith in the government agencies responsible for protecting the
nation's health.
Distributed for peer review last week, the study confounded
infectious-disease experts in suggesting that people vaccinated
against seasonal flu are twice as likely to catch swine flu.
The paper is under peer review, and lead researchers Danuta Skowronski
of the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control and Gaston De
Serres of Laval University must stay mum until it's published.
Met with intense early skepticism both in Canada and abroad, the paper
has since convinced several provincial health agencies to announce
hasty suspensions of seasonal flu vaccinations, long-held fixtures of
public-health planning.
“It has confused things very badly,” said Dr. Ethan Rubinstein, head
of adult infectious diseases at the University of Manitoba. “And it
has certainly cost us credibility from the public because of
conflicting recommendations. Until last week, there had always been
much encouragement to get the seasonal flu vaccine.”
On Sunday Quebec joined Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Nova Scotia
in suspending seasonal flu shots for anyone under 65 years of age.
Quebec's Health Ministry announced it would postpone vaccinations
until January, clearing the autumn months for health professionals to
focus on vaccinating against H1N1, which is expected to the more
severe influenza strain this season.
“By the time the H1N1 wave is over, there will be ample time to
vaccinate for seasonal flu,” Dr. Rubinstein said.
B.C. is expected to announce a similar suspension during a press
conference Monday morning.
Other provinces, including Manitoba, are still pondering a response to
the research.
New Brunswick is a lone hold-out, announcing last week it would forge
ahead with seasonal flu shots for all residents in October, as
originally planned.
So far, the study's impact is confined to Canada. Researchers in the
U.S., Britain and Australia have not reported the same phenomenon.
Marie-Paule Kieny, the World Health Organization's director of vaccine
research, said last week the Canadian findings were an international
anomaly and could constitute a “study bias.”
An international panel is currently scrutinizing the research data.
“The review process has been expedited, so we're hoping for a response
within days,” said Roy Wadia, spokesman for the B.C. Centre for
Disease Control.
Dr. Rubinstein, who has read the study, said it appears sound.
“There are a large number of authors, all of them excellent and
credible researchers,” he said. “And the sample size is very large –
12 or 13 million people taken from the central reporting systems in
three provinces. The research is solid.”
The vaccine suspensions do not apply for people over 65. Seniors are
considered more susceptible to severe seasonal flu symptoms. At the
same time, they carry antibodies from a 1957 pandemic that seem to
neutralize the current version of H1N1.
Even if the statistical link is proven, the medical link between
seasonal flu shots and H1N1 remains mysterious. One hypothesis
suggests seasonal flu vaccine preoccupies the cells that would
otherwise produce antibodies against H1N1.
But, according to Dr. Rubinstein, the research shows that people who
received the seasonal shot during the 2007-08 flu season remained
vulnerable to swine flu well into 2009 – an interval that should
provide most immune systems ample restoration time.
“We don't understand the mechanism,” Dr. Rubinstein said. “At the
present time it is quite perplexing.”
I have received today numerous emails from you. My staff have also
received a number of phone calls. They have been instructed not to
respond and not to tolerate any abuse.
I would consider further calls and emails harassment and would need to
involve the police. Please stop.
I am concerned from the tone of your emails that you may not be well
at present. Can I strongly urge you to consult with your physician
for a review as soon as possible.
Dr Paul Van Buynder
Deputy Chief Medical Officer / Médecin-hygiéniste en chef adjoint
New Brunswick Department of Health / Ministère de la Santé Nouveau-Brunswick
Tel: (506) 444-2719
Fax: (506) 453-8702
Cell: (506) 470-1612 paul.vanbuynder@gnb.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: David Amos [mailto:david.raymond.amos@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:32 PM
To: drcarley; jane burgermeister; Alexander S Jones;
hazelbitsnaturals; Alex Hunter; Penny Bright; jacques_poitras; chiefape@gmail.com; danddbroadcasting; Van Buynder, Dr. Paul (DH/MS);
Murphy, Michael B. (Hon.) (JUS); Schryer, Hon. Mary (DH/MS); Ross, Ken
(DH/MS); Graham, Shawn; Dan Fitzgerald; oldmaison@yahoo.com; Richard
Harris; Foster, Ken (DH/MS); DH-MS (DH/MS); Richard, Jerry (DH/MS);
Van Buynder, Jan (DH/MS)
Cc: Barry Winters; rebeccaphb@yahoo.com; hubert; splitting_the_sky;
Mohawk Nation News; Ignatieff. M; Jack - M.P. Layton; Duceppe. G; catharine.johannson@greenparty.ca; maureen.murphy@greenparty.ca; michael.bernard@greenparty.ca; Harper.S@parl.gc.ca; andrew; Byron
Prior; DannyWilliams; William J. Wagener
Subject: RE the WHO FLU and another instance in which an evil
Zionist's wish is my command?
Barry Baby
Scroll down Thanks to you this email is most excellent fodder for a
lawsuit and a book or two as well.
Also THANX bigtime for publishing many malicious comments in and about
my Youtube about you, sending me the proof that many others received
the same emails as you have in recent days and then topping it all off
by publishing a portion of my communictions with many people about the
WHO FLU within your malicious blog.
BTW You did it all while I was talking to the Media dude for the
Green Party about your blog. Not that was truly wickedly funny. talk
about information overload.
In return for your malicious nonsense I will post this email in my
blog. You know were to look already N'esy Pas Mr tough talking noname
evil Zionist? Try to deny that you use UK font again will ya? It fun
sometimes to expose your obvious BULLSHIT.
Just Dave
By Location Visit Detail
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For the record (that ain't a Yankee expression) in my humble opinion
if the Green Party of Canada clues in, seizes the moment and climbs up
the right side of this WHO FLU issue ASAP just as the Canadian Action
Party already has done long ago Harper may have the election he seeks
but without the results he longs for. Despite all their huffing and
puffing we all know that Iggy and Layton fear an election greatly.
However if honest Canadians have any luck at all it may turn out to be
Stevey Boy Harper's Waterloo. Hell maybe even a few Greens, some CAP
folks and a few more Independents may get elected to properly take a
seat in the House of Commons and a chance to act ethically for the on
behalf of the public's interests. If after the next can of worms is
kicked over public corruption is discussed in a far more serious
fashion during all the talks from the various soap boxes outside of
the corrupt corporate media's domain a lot of professional politicians
could be greatly embarassed. Do ya think CBC or CTV or Gobal will say
two words about it all? However many bloggers and Youtubes may step up
to the plate. It would be wonderful to turn the worm on all the
political cromies and their corporate buddies. Wouldn't it be neat for
Common Canadians Citizens to debate the Green Party and the Action
Party etc without Harper or Iggy or Layton being allowed to muck
things up with their Bullshit? Hell of a pipe dream EH Mr Duceppe?
Mr Baconfat perhaps while you are trying hard to impeach my character
in your next round od evil posts you should consider publishing some
of Becky's words too. Even though she hates mean old me nearly as much
as you do at least she is on the right side of this issue. Thus you
must hate her too correct? Maybe you should pick a fight with her? I
know for a fact that she loves a good scrap.
Veritas Vncit
David Raymond Amos
P.S. Say Hoka Hey to your pals in the PCO office for me will ya Mr Baconfat?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Raymond Amos <noreply-comment@blogger.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:43:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Just Dave] New comment on Me and Bush.
To: David.Raymond.Amos@gmail.com
David Raymond Amos has left a new comment on the post "Me and Bush":
BINGO EH MR Baconfat? I bet the diddler Dana Durnford and your buddy
Dirty Dicky Dean ain't even got the first clue what this is about. In
fact neither do you EH pussy?
Just Dave
By Location Visit Detail
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Amos david.raymond.amos@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:25:19 -0300
Subject: FYI THE DOINGS BETWEEN RUMSFELD, OBAMA'S MONEY DUDES AND ME
SCARED THE SHIT OUT OF DR BILL
To: jane burgermeister jmburgermeister@gmail.com
Cc: Campbell Rebecca rebeccaphb@yahoo.com
On 9/25/09, David Amos <david.raymond.amos@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: "Ross, Ken (DH/MS)" <ken.ross@gnb.ca>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 08:43:31 -0300
> Subject: Re: Hey Ken Who is Mental Health's and the Hospital in
> Fredericton's lawyers?
> To: david.raymond.amos@gmail.com
>
> Got your messages Dave. I am in Toronto for meetings and will be back
> in the office Friday. I will ask Barb Whitenect to follow up with you
> in the interim. Yes Herby picked up ypur bike a while back.
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos@gmail.com>
> To: Ross, Ken (DH/MS); Whitenect, Barbara (DH/MS); Murphy, Michael B.
> (DH/MS)
> Cc: Santerre, Rosaire (DH/MS); Pitre, Marc (DH/MS); Eidt, David
> (OAG/CPG); oldmaison@yahoo.com <oldmaison@yahoo.com>; Cyr, Judy
> (DH/MS); Burke, T.J. (Hon.) (JUS); police@fredericton.ca
> < police@fredericton.ca>; Levesque, Carrie (DH/MS); Elgee, Anne
> (DH/MS); danny.copp@fredericton.ca <danny.copp@fredericton.ca>;
> jacques.boucher@rcmp-grc.gc.ca <jacques.boucher@rcmp-grc.gc.ca>
> Sent: Wed Jul 09 07:03:13 2008
> Subject: Hey Ken Who is Mental Health's and the Hospital in
> Fredericton's lawyers?
>
> KENNETH ROSS, Assistant Deputy Minister
> Addictions and Mental Health Services / Health
> Contact Information
> Phone: (506) 457-4800
> Fax: (506) 453-5243
>
> BARBARA WHITENECT, Director
> Addictions and Mental Health Services / Health
> Contact Information
> Phone: (506) 444-4442
> Fax: (506) 453-8711
> EMail Address: Barbara.Whitenect@gnb.ca
>
>
> Sorry to involve you but lets just say that I am really really pissed
> off for very justifiable reasons.
>
> This should prove to some folks that at least I know how to read.
>
> http://www.ahsc.health.nb.ca/Programs/MentalHealth/rights.shtml
>
> I have no doubt whatsoever that you would more pissed than I am if
> the malicious bullshit that happened to me last weekend had happened
> to you.
>
> I will try to call you in business hours but I suspect in the end I
> will wind up arguing this dude in court in short order. (On a lighter
> note did Herby pick up my bike?)
>
> David Eidt
> Legal Services
> Office of the Attorney General
> Tel: (506) 453-3964
> Fax: (506) 453-3275
> david.eidt@gnb.ca
>
> Best Regards
> Dave
>
>
> These emails and the bullshit from the news last year should to all
> that I am as serious as a heart attack and far from mentally unstabe
> but the cops have proven themselves to be monumental liars many times
>
> Subject:
> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:02:35 -0400
> From: "Murphy, Michael B. \(DH/MS\)" MichaelB.Murphy@gnb.ca
> To: motomaniac_02186@yahoo.com
>
>
> January 30, 2007
>
>
> WITHOUT PREJUDICE
>
> Mr. David Amos
>
>
> Dear Mr. Amos:
>
> This will acknowledge receipt of a copy of your e-mail of December 29,
> 2006 to Corporal Warren McBeath of the RCMP.
>
> Because of the nature of the allegations made in your message, I have
> taken the measure of forwarding a copy to Assistant Commissioner Steve
> Graham of the RCMP "J" Division in Fredericton.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Honourable Michael B. Murphy
> Minister of Health
>
> CM/cb
>
> Warren McBeath warren.mcbeath@rcmp-grc.gc.ca wrote:
>
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:34:53 -0500
> From: "Warren McBeath" warren.mcbeath@rcmp-grc.gc.ca
> To: kilgoursite@ca.inter.net, MichaelB.Murphy@gnb.ca,
> nada.sarkis@gnb.ca, wally.stiles@gnb.ca, dwatch@web.net,
> motomaniac_02186@yahoo.com
> CC: ottawa@chuckstrahl.com, riding@chuckstrahl.com,
> John.Foran@gnb.ca, Oda.B@parl.gc.ca,
> "Bev BUSSON" bev.busson@rcmp-grc.gc.ca,
> "Paul Dube" PAUL.DUBE@rcmp-grc.gc.ca
> Subject: Re: Remember me Kilgour? Landslide Annie McLellan has
> forgotten me but the crooks within the RCMP have n
>
> Dear Mr. Amos,
>
> Thank you for your follow up e-mail to me today. I was on days off over
> the holidays and returned to work this evening. Rest assured I was not
> ignoring or procrastinating to respond to your concerns.
>
> As your attachment sent today refers from Premier Graham, our position
> is clear on your dead calf issue: Our forensic labs do not process
> testing on animals in cases such as yours, they are referred to the
> Atlantic Veterinary College in Charlottetown who can provide these
> services. If you do not choose to utilize their expertise in this
> instance, then that is your decision and nothing more can be done.
>
> As for your other concerns regarding the US Government, false
> imprisonment and Federal Court Dates in the US, etc... it is clear that
> Federal authorities are aware of your concerns both in Canada and the
> US. These issues do not fall into the purvue of Detachment policing in
> Petitcodiac, NB.
>
> It was indeed an interesting and informative conversation we had on
> December 23rd, and I wish you well in all of your future endeavors.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Warren McBeath, Cpl.
> GRC Caledonia RCMP
> Traffic Services NCO
> Ph: (506) 387-2222
> Fax: (506) 387-4622
> E-mail warren.mcbeath@rcmp-grc.gc.ca
>
> charles leblanc oldmaison@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Where are ya living now???? Since the media seem to ignore ya? I'll
> sit down for a debate with a recorder for the blog...Now? Don't get
> all exicted and send this all over the world.....lol
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: David Amos motomaniac_02186@yahoo.com
> To: brad.woodside@fredericton.ca; whalen@fredericton.ca;
> david.kelly@fredericton.ca; cathy.maclaggan@fredericton.ca;
> stephen.kelly@fredericton.ca; tom.jellinek@fredericton.ca;
> scott.mcconaghy@fredericton.ca; marilyn.kerton@fredericton.ca;
> walter.brown@fredericton.ca; norah.davidson@fredericton.ca;
> mike.obrien@fredericton.ca; bruce.grandy@fredericton.ca;
> dan.keenan@fredericton.ca; jeff.mockler@gnb.ca;
> mrichard@lawsociety-barreau.nb.ca; cynthia.merlini@dfait-maeci.gc.ca;
> jlmockler@mpor.ca; scotta@parl.gc.ca; michael.bray@gnb.ca;
> jack.e.mackay@gnb.ca
> Cc: news@dailygleaner.com; kcarmichael@bloomberg.net;
> oldmaison@yahoo.com; advocacycollective@yahoo.com;
> Easter.W@parl.gc.ca; Comartin.J@parl.gc.ca; cityadmin@fredericton.ca;
> info@gg.ca; bmosher@mosherchedore.ca; rchedore@mosherchedore.ca;
> police@fredericton.ca; chebert@thestar.ca; Stoffer.P@parl.gc.ca;
> Stronach.B@parl.gc.ca; Matthews.B@parl.gc.ca; alltrue@nl.rogers.com;
> Harper.S@parl.gc.ca; Layton.J@parl.gc.ca; Dryden.K@parl.gc.ca;
> Duceppe.G@parl.gc.ca
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:37:04 PM
> Subject: I promised one of the Fat Fred City cop Randy Reilly that I
> would try to make him famous
>
> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=davidraymondamos&search=Search
>
> A man is only as good as his word EH? To bad priests, bankers,
> politicians, lawyers and cops can't claim the same N'est Pas
>
> http://actionlyme.org/FBI_WIRETAPE_TAPES.htm
>
> FEDERAL EXPRESS February 7, 2006
>
> Senator Arlen Specter
> United States Senate
> Committee on the Judiciary
> 224 Dirksen Senate Office Building
> Washington, DC 20510
>
> Dear Mr. Specter:
>
> I have been asked to forward the enclosed tapes to you from a man
> named, David Amos, a Canadian citizen, in connection with the matters
> raised in the attached letter. Mr. Amos has represented to me that
> these are illegal FBI wire tap tapes. I believe Mr. Amos has been in
> contact with you about this previously.
>
> Very truly yours,
> Barry A. Bachrach
> Direct telephone: (508) 926-3403
> Direct facsimile: (508) 929-3003
> Email: bbachrach@bowditch.com
>
>
>
> http://davidamos.blogspot.com/.
>
> Paulette Delaney-Smith Paulette.Delaney-Smith@rcmp-grc.gc.ca wrote:
> David,
>
> I received your voice mail, I have been transferred to another unit
> and I am unaware of who is dealing with your complaints at this time.
>
> Paulette Delaney-Smith, Cpl.
> RCMPolice "J" DIvision HQ
>
>
>
> http://gypsy-blog.blogspot.com/2008/03/media-restrains-itself-inexplicably.html
>
> Threat against Burke taken seriously
>
> By STEPHEN LLEWELLYN
> dgleg@nb.aibn.com
> Published Thursday May 24th, 2007
> Appeared on page A1
> An RCMP security detail has been guarding Justice Minister and
> Attorney General T.J. Burke because of threats made against him
> recently.
>
> Burke, the Liberal MLA for Fredericton-Fort Nashwaaksis, wouldn't
> explain the nature of the threats.
>
> "I have had a particular individual or individuals who have made
> specific overtures about causing harm towards me," he told reporters
> Wednesday.
>
> "The RCMP has provided security to me recently by accompanying me to a
> couple of public functions where the individual is known to reside or
> have family members in the area," said Burke. "It is nice to have some
> added protection and that added comfort."
>
> The RCMP provides protection to the premier and MLAs with its VIP security
> unit.
>
> Burke didn't say when the threat was made but it's believed to have
> been in recent weeks.
>
> "When a threat is posed to you and it is a credible threat, you have
> to be cautious about where you go and who you are around," he said.
> "But again, I am more concerned about my family as opposed to my own
> personal safety."
>
> Burke said he doesn't feel any differently and he has not changed his
> pattern of activity.
>
> "It doesn't bother me one bit," he said. "It makes my wife feel awful
> nervous."
>
> Burke served in an elite American military unit before becoming a
> lawyer and going into politics in New Brunswick.
>
> "(I) have taken my own precautions and what I have to do to ensure my
> family's safety," he said. "I am a very cautious person in general due
> to my background and training.
>
> "I am comfortable with defending myself or my family if it ever had to
> happen."
>
> Burke said it is not uncommon for politicians to have security concerns.
>
> "We do live unfortunately in an age and in a society now where threats
> have to be taken pretty seriously," he said.
>
> Since the terrorism attacks in the United States on Sept. 11, 2001,
> security in New Brunswick has been
> beefed up.
>
> Metal detectors were recently installed in the legislature and all
> visitors are screened.
>
> The position of attorney general is often referred to as the
> province's "top cop."
>
> Burke said sometimes people do not differentiate between his role as
> the manager of the justice system and the individual who actually
> prosecutes them.
>
> "With the job sometimes comes threats," he said. "I have had numerous
> threats since Day 1 in office."
>
> Burke said he hopes his First Nations heritage has nothing to do with it.
>
> "I think it is more of an issue where people get fixated on a matter
> and they believe you are personally responsible for assigning them
> their punishment or their sanction," he said.
>
> Is the threat from someone who was recently incarcerated?
>
> "I probably shouldn't answer that," he replied.
>
> Reporters asked when the threat would be over.
>
> "I don't think a threat ever passes once it has been made," said
> Burke. "You have to consider the credibility of the source."
>
> Bruce Fitch, former justice minister in the Conservative government,
> said "every now and again there would be e-mails that were not
> complimentary."
>
> "I did have a meeting with the RCMP who are in charge of the security
> of the MLAs and ministers," said Fitch.
>
> "They look at each and every situation."
>
> Fitch said he never had bodyguards assigned to him although former
> premier Bernard Lord and former health minister Elvy Robichaud did
> have extra security staff assigned on occasion.
>
> He said if any MLA felt threatened, he or she would discuss it with the
> RCMP.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 23:43:58 -0300
> Subject: (: Yo Woodsman Werner and Danny Boy :) Your defence of me is
> greatly appreciated THANX
> To: webo@xplornet.com, danf@danf.net, Wayne.STEEVES@gnb.ca,
> frederic.loiseau@fredericton.ca, tony.whalen@gnb.ca
> Cc: injusticecoalition@hotmail.com, oldmaison@yahoo.com,
> abel.leblanc@gnb.ca, T.J.Burke@gnb.ca, jack.keir@gnb.ca, nbpc@gnb.ca,
> arnold.hadley@gnb.ca, john.foran@gnb.ca, premier@gnb.ca,
> Jeannot.VOLPE@gnb.ca
>
> At first I though you spelled Soviet wrong Werner but then I realized
> it is how Germans' spell it. Now that is funny but it proved you
> sincerity to Danny Boy Fitzgerald as well because he supplied the link
> to it.
>
> http://qslspolitics.blogspot.com/2008/07/feds-institutionalize-determined-nb.html
>
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sowjet
>
> http://qslspolitics.blogspot.com/2008/07/off-duty-ns-cops-taunt-taser-digby-man.html
>
> http://govinjustice.blogspot.com/
>
> http://charlesotherpersonality.blogspot.com/2008/07/david-amos-picked-up-by-rcmp.html
>
> http://gypsy-blog.blogspot.com/2008/06/pc-headquarters.html
>
> QSLS Politics
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> City : Saint John
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>
> ROSAIRE SANTERRE, Patient Advocate
> Psychiatric Patient Advocate Services / Health
> Contact Information
> Phone: (506) 789-2984
> Fax: (506) 789-6587
> EMail Address: rosaire.santerre@gnb.ca
>
>
> JUDY CYR, Coordinator
> Psychiatric Patient Advocate Services / Health
> Contact Information
> Phone: (506) 856-2924
> Fax: (506) 869-6101
> EMail Address: Judy.Cyr@gnb.ca
>
> MARC PITRE, Patient Advocate
> Psychiatric Patient Advocate Services / Health
> Contact Information
> Phone: (506) 856-2924
> Fax: (506) 869-6101
> EMail Address: Marc.Pitre@gnb.ca
>
> ANNE ELGEE, Patient Advocate
> Psychiatric Patient Advocate Services / Health
> Contact Information
> Phone: (506) 444-4446
> Fax: (506) 643-2917
> EMail Address: anne.elgee@gnb.ca
>
> CARRIE LEVESQUE, Patient Advocate
> Psychiatric Patient Advocate Services / Health
> Contact Information
> Phone: (506) 856-2924
> Fax: (506) 869-6101
> EMail Address: Carrie.Levesque@gnb.ca
>
>
>
> On 9/25/09, Van Buynder, Dr. Paul (DH/MS) <Paul.VanBuynder@gnb.ca> wrote:
>> Dear Mr Amos,
>>
>> I have received today numerous emails from you. My staff have also
>> received
>> a number of phone calls. They have been instructed not to respond and
>> not
>> to tolerate any abuse.
>>
>> I would consider further calls and emails harassment and would need to
>> involve the police. Please stop.
>>
>> I am concerned from the tone of your emails that you may not be well at
>> present. Can I strongly urge you to consult with your physician for a
>> review as soon as possible.
>>
>> Dr Paul Van Buynder
>> Deputy Chief Medical Officer / Médecin-hygiéniste en chef adjoint
>> New Brunswick Department of Health / Ministère de la Santé
>> Nouveau-Brunswick
>> Tel: (506) 444-2719
>> Fax: (506) 453-8702
>> Cell: (506) 470-1612
>> paul.vanbuynder@gnb.ca
Rocco Galati challenges role of Bank of Canada in latest case Maverick lawyer argues central bank should provide interest-free money for infrastructureCBC News Posted: May 08, 2015 3:32 PM ET Last Updated: May 08, 2015 4:12 PM ET
The case against Bank of Canada 18:40
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Marc Nadon's failed journey to the Supreme Court
The lawyer best known for stopping the Supreme Court appointment of
Judge Marc Nadon has turned his sights on the Bank of Canada.
Rocco Galati has taken on a case for a group called the Committee for
Monetary and Economic Reform, or COMER, which wants the central bank
to return to the practice of lending federal and provincial
governments interest-free money for infrastructure.
TIMELINE: Marc Nadon's failed journey to the Supreme Court
Rocco Galati denied all but $5K in costs for Nadon court challenge
"They felt it was important in the face of the financial sector
meltdown in 2008, the banking meltdown, and the drastic reduction and
elimination of human capital infrastructure such as health care,
universities and basically the stuff that the Bank of Canada from 1938
to 1974 funded," Galati said in an interview with CBC's The Exchange
with Amanda Lange.
His clients have been dismissed as conspiracy theorists, but Galati
argues the law is there to support their case.
The Bank of Canada was set up in 1935 in the wake of the Great
Depression to provide a means for settling international accounts and
to provide interest-free loans to government to finance infrastructure
investments.
History of infrastructure funding
Projects like the St. Lawrence Seaway and the Trans-Canada highway
were funded in this way, and the central bank also underwrote Canada's
Second World War effort as well as the building of hospitals and
universities.
But in 1974, the central bank stopped providing interest-free loans to
government so it could join the Bank for International Settlements, a
kind of central bank of central banks.
Galati argues that from then on private banks became government's
lender, contravening the act that established the central bank.
He has launched legal action, beginning in 2011, to rule on the
constitutionality of the central bank's current role. His argument is
that private banks are dictating the terms of Canadian debt, usurping
the role of the Bank of Canada.
Is government bound by original act?
"My hope is that the court declare that the government is bound by the
legislation and cannot simply hand over that decision-making to
foreign private bankers," Galati said.
"What the government then does is up to the government, but they can't
simply arbitrarily say 'no never again' when the law is there and the
history of the reason for creating the Bank of Canada is there."
The Committee for Monetary and Economic Reform takes the view that
having the Bank of Canada provide funding would eliminate interest
payments on the national debt — a huge burden for the Canadian
taxpayer.
Galati agrees the case is a strange and quixotic one, but he's built a
career on holding the government to the law.
"It wasn't arcane for me, it's in the law," he said.
And he acknowledged it will probably earn him few friends. He'll never
be made a judge or even sit on a law faculty. And it will be a long
fight.
"Well, most struggles to enforce the law are. I mean, often, I've had
cases that have gone 12 years, successfully at the end of the day,
because the government simply wants to ignore the law," he said.
"That's the system we have, and when they do, the only people that can
force them to abide by the law are the courts."
Marc Nadon case
Last year when Prime Minister Stephen Harper nominated Nadon to the
Supreme Court, Galati stepped in, saying the move broke the rules. Few
expected him to win. But in a surprise decision, he did.
"I saw an attempt to pervert and subvert our independent judiciary,
which is the last bastion of balancing the rights of the citizens
against the rights of the government and making sure that the
government doesn't turn into a dictatorship," he said. "If you can
stack the court and corrupt the judiciary, well, that's it."
Galati said he believes Parliament has become ineffective in checking
the power of government and the courts are the only recourse.
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