Wednesday 29 May 2024

Firing was 'catastrophic,' made me 'a pariah,' Margaret-Ann Blaney tells inquiry

 

Firing was 'catastrophic,' made me 'a pariah,' Margaret-Ann Blaney tells inquiry

Former PC cabinet minister says party affiliation was sole reason for her termination

Former Progressive Conservative cabinet minister Margaret-Ann Blaney says her 2014 firing by a Liberal government was "catastrophic" for her financially, turning her into a pariah and forcing her to leave New Brunswick to find work.

The one-time Rothesay MLA told a labour board hearing Wednesday that the controversy over her appointment as CEO of Efficiency New Brunswick, and her firing more than two years later, made her name synonymous with political patronage in the eyes of the public.

"To find myself in this situation was catastrophic," she said.

"I became persona non grata. My colleagues had distanced themselves from me because of the association with my name and political patronage. I was completely vilified in a very public way," she said, describing how she searched in vain for a new job.

"At every turn with every conversation it became increasingly apparent that I was like a pariah." 

When her daughter finished school two years after the firing, she moved to Nova Scotia to start over, she said. She now lives in Newfoundland and Labrador, where she grew up.

9 years to get to labour board

Blaney, who turned 63 Wednesday, is before the Employment and Labour Board as a result of a complaint under the Human Rights Act that the Liberal government of then premier Brian Gallant fired her because of her PC affiliation.

"The cloud that hung over all of it was the political piece," she said in her first public comments on her firing since it happened.

"If I had been a high-profile Liberal sitting in that position … none of this would have happened."

It took Blaney nine years to get before the labour board because two successive governments, one Liberal and one PC, tried to block her. 

Blaney, a PC leadership candidate in 1997 who sat as an MLA from 1999 to 2012, was a minister in the Bernard Lord and David Alward governments.

In June 2012, she resigned from cabinet and the legislature when Alward appointed her president and CEO of Efficiency N.B., a move widely denounced as a patronage appointment.

The government had eliminated the CEO position a year earlier, folding it into the duties of the energy department's deputy minister, but the job was re-established when Blaney was appointed.

Even her cabinet colleague, then-finance minister and now premier Blaine Higgs, refused to endorse the appointment.

Before Brian Gallant was sworn in as Liberal premier in 2014, he told reporters that Alward assured him Blaney and another PC appointee, Invest N.B. CEO Robert MacLeod, would be laid off along with six deputy ministers closely tied to the Progressive Conservatives.

It was "common practice" for a defeated government to lay off "politically hired individuals" with severance before a new government was sworn in, Blaney explained in her testimony.

But when the Liberals took power Oct. 7, 2014, Blaney and MacLeod had not been laid off and were still in their positions.

"There are some things that will … have to be dealt with," Gallant said at the time. 

'I literally could not get into my office'

Blaney testified she was told on Oct. 6 and 14 by two senior bureaucrats, Kelly Cain and Marc Leger, to not report to work and to turn in her government phone and pass card. Her government email account was disabled.

"I literally could not get into my office," she said.

The following spring, the Liberals introduced legislation to dissolve Efficiency N.B., fire Blaney and block her from suing over the termination. The law was passed in March 2015 but applied retroactively to Oct. 16, 2014. 

The then-Liberal energy minister who introduced the bill, Donald Arseneault, had been summoned to testify Wednesday by Blaney's lawyer Kelly VanBuskirk.

Arseneault showed up, and chatted amiably with Blaney before the hearing, but VanBuskirk opted not to call him as a witness.

Man in blue plaid suit jacket in a hallway, looking at the camera. Former Liberal energy minister Donald Arseneault leaves the hearing after being summoned to testify. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)

The province tried in court to block the Human Rights Commission from investigating Blaney's complaint and from sending it to the labour and employment board for an inquiry.

But Blaney argued the initial directives to not report to work happened before the retroactive date in the legislation extinguishing her right to sue.

The Liberal legislation also did not explicitly prevent a human rights challenge to the firing.

'It became a huge political issue'

Last year, the New Brunswick Court of Appeal finally cleared the way for the inquiry to go ahead.

In Wednesday's hearing, Blaney recalled how her 2012 appointment "resonated. It grew legs. It became a huge political issue."

But she said her experience in a range of cabinet positions, including environment and energy, qualified her to head Efficiency N.B., which was set up by the PC government of Bernard Lord to administer energy-efficiency programs.

"I knew the files very well. I knew the agency very well," she said.

The opposition Liberals denounced the appointment at the time because there was no formal search process, just a cabinet order naming Blaney to the job.

Blaney said Wednesday that was the nature of the hiring — a decision by cabinet identical to that of her predecessor, former NDP leader Elizabeth Weir.

"There wasn't any other process in place, i.e. an interview process. It was a political appointment process."

Name synonymous with political patronage: Blaney

Even so, she said she became a lightning rod for what turned into a wider political debate about partisan appointments to government jobs.

"It's my name attached to that issue, every time," she said.

"Even to this day, when political appointments are referenced … my name is still attached to it. I am the reference point for it." 

On the other hand, she said, "the feedback I received from the [agency's] board of directors was very positive." From stakeholders, she said, "there was never to my knowledge … any complaint."

Blaney earned about $155,000 a year in the position and had a generous pension plan that would double the value of her benefits over the five years of her contract.

The firing ended all of that, with no severance, she said, forcing her at one point to collect Employment Insurance for a year. 

Lawyers representing Blaney and the province called no other evidence Wednesday and will make closing arguments to labour board vice-chair John McEvoy next Thursday.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR


Jacques Poitras

Provincial Affairs reporter

Jacques Poitras has been CBC's provincial affairs reporter in New Brunswick since 2000. He grew up in Moncton and covered Parliament in Ottawa for the New Brunswick Telegraph-Journal. He has reported on every New Brunswick election since 1995 and won awards from the Radio Television Digital News Association, the National Newspaper Awards and Amnesty International. He is also the author of five non-fiction books about New Brunswick politics and history.

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82 Comments
 
 
David Amos
Methinks Mr Outhouse has lots to study before Apple Blossom Time N'esy Pas? 
 
David Amos
Reply to David Amos
Murphy's Law states that if there are two or more ways to do something, and one of those ways can result in a catastrophe, then someone will do it.
 
 
David Amos
The plot thickens 
 
Joseph Godin 
Reply to David Amos 
As does my seafood chowda.
 
David Amos
Reply to Joseph Godin  
Methinks that a proper thing for a decent chowder to do N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
JOhn D Bond
10 yrs later and its just being heard now.

Forget what this issue is all about. How can it take that long to get the case heard. That this is in any remotely acceptable is a problem

Justice delayed is justice denied. Patronage or not, completely unacceptable.

David Amos
Reply to JOhn D Bond  
Why not read the news Like I did over 20 years ago?
 
JOhn D Bond  
Reply to David Amos  
The article talks about 2014 not 2004. Perhaps reading the news is a good suggestion.
 
David Amos
Reply to JOhn D Bond
Blaney was a Cabinet Minister when this article was published so why should anything surprise her?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/lawyer-says-liberal-support-means-business-1.411935 
 
David Amos
 
Reply to David Amos  
Lawyer says Liberal support means business

CBC News · Posted: Feb 27, 2003 5:22 PM AST

A prominent New Brunswick lawyer has no trouble admitting his support of the federal Liberal party translates into government business. David Lutz of Hampton says his firm works for the federal Justice Department because he works for the party.

Last February, David Lutz sent a memo to the staff at his firm instructing them when, where and how to vote for Shawn Graham in the provincial Liberal leadership race.

The memo said voting for Graham would help the firm, because its number one client is the federal department of justice, and that business is secured by Lutz's profile in the party.

"We've done work work for the party in the past, and it's been my experience that the party returns the favour," Lutz said on Thursday.

The business brought up to $100,000 in revenue to the firm in 2002, enough to keep three of his employees busy.

While the lawyer has no trouble talking about the memo, Graham says the memo is news to him.

"I can say though that I've never discussed government contracts with Mr. Lutz or with the Federal Department of Justice. And I can't comment on the observations made in this memo because it was an inter-office memo in a private sector company and certainly nothing I had any involvement in."

The leader says he does appreciate the support Lutz provided in helping him win the Liberal leadership.

 
 
Lou Bell
Maybe do a search into Provincial leases to Government departments . There are some " doosies "
 
David Amos
Reply to Lou Bell
You should do some research too
 
 
 
Wilbur Ross
Poor thing. "Had to start over." 😭🎻🎻😭 
 
David Amos
Reply to Wilbur Ross
She has done that before several times
 
David Amos
 
Reply to David Amos  
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Margaret-Ann Blaney worked as a reporter for both television and radio from 1982 to 1993, when she met Wayne Gretzky and became a candidate against Brian Tobin in the 1993 Canadian federal election, finishing a distant second. Shortly thereafter she married and moved to Rothesay, New Brunswick where she managed her husband's veterinary practice. In 1994, Ms. Blaney and her husband started their own small business, the Atlantic Veterinary Hospital in Rothesay, N.B. She was active in the business as co-owner / general manager until June 1999. In 1997, she was a candidate for leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of New Brunswick, losing to Bernard Lord.

Political career

She was elected to the New Brunswick legislature in the 1999 election and was named to cabinet as Minister of Transportation. While minister, her riding executive solicited donations from highway contractors, implying that Blaney would favour those who donated. There was briefly a large amount of controversy surrounding this, however; the Moncton Times & Transcript newspaper ran an editorial cartoon with one contractor asking another, while referring to a bulge in his pocket, "Is that Margaret-Ann Blaney in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" This cartoon was derided as sexist and both Blaney and Bernard Lord cried in the legislature when commenting on it. The legislature unanimously passed a motion condemning the cartoon and the controversy soon shifted from Blaney to the paper.[1]

David Amos
 
Reply to David Amos 
In 2001, Blaney was shuffled to the Department of Public Safety. She was re-elected in 2003 and became Minister of Training & Employment Development. On February 14, 2006, she was shuffled out of cabinet; she said this was by choice as she wanted to focus more closely on riding issues. She was re-elected in 2006 and sat in opposition to the new Liberal government.

On October 12, 2010 Blaney became a member of the Executive Council and Environment Minister, Minister Responsible for the Advisory Council on the Status of Women and Minister Responsible for Communications New Brunswick. On March 15, 2012 Blaney became Energy Minister and Minister Responsible for the Status of Women.

On May 16, 2012 Blaney announced that she was resigning as a minister and MLA, and had accepted appointment as chief executive officer of Efficiency New Brunswick.[2]

Wilbur Ross
Reply to David Amos 
Welcome to the club ... C'est la vie
 
David Amos
 
Reply to Wilbur Ross
Welcome back to the c$rc$s  
 
David Amos
Reply to Wilbur Ross
Mais Oui 
 
 
  • cording to our Submission Guidelines. To learn more about commenting, visit our Getting Started guide or the CBC Help Centre.

    All Comments

    1. Comment by kelly sherrard.

    Note the pension plan comment. Do other government employees get a cadillac pension plan? This is so wrong.

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Yup


  • Comment by William Murdoch.

  • She should have known to hustle to the nearest hospital and get on that payroll. Just like so many of her other "acquaintances" did.


  • Comment by Gordon MacFarlane.

  • Government giveth and government taketh away

    Too bad so sad

    • Reply by David Amos.

    You should put that T Shirts and Bumper Stickers


  • Comment by Shawn Tabor.

  • Oh please give her whats she wants, its just more taxpayers money. We have to keep it going the same way. 2-3 million and we will not hear from her again. Its just money. Poor thing, imagine have to leave the province for employment. You can’t make this up.

    • Reply by David Amos.

    • Why is it that I shake my head as I read your comments?

  • Comment by Greg Miller.

  • There are rewards and costs when being a political appointment --that's simply the way it is. Like it or lump it!

    • Reply by David Amos.

  • I don't like it nor will I lump it

  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Hmmm


  • Reply by Samual Johnston.

  • Point is they took her rewards away .. most likely in an illegal manner. If not illegal definitely shady. Should never been appointed in the first place though just like hundreds of others over the years.


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • So???


  • Comment by David Amos.

  • "Higgs used the traditional political code to suggest that ministers were not united about the Blaney decision.

    "I feel very proud to be part of a team that encourages open, frank discussion and dialogue. We have that in cabinet and we have that in caucus," he said.

    "When we have discussions in cabinet, fortunately the premier doesn't expect us to all be there just kind of raising the flag and saying, 'This is good.' He expects to hear from each one of us independently and I think he gets that," Higgs added."

    Too Too Funny Indeed

    • Reply by David Amos.

  • Imagine not laughing at this

    "The Liberals and the NDP are hoping to turn the patronage appointment into the key ballot box question in the June 25 Rothesay byelection.

    NDP Leader Dominic Cardy is running in the Rothesay byelection in the hope of landing the party’s first seat in the legislature since 2005.

    Cardy unveiled his so-called Rothesay charter on Thursday, which would ban hiring based on political affiliation, except for political staff.

    Cardy’s plan, which would need to be endorsed by the Progressive Conservatives and the Liberals, would also lay out a new hiring procedure for chief executive officers of Crown corporations."

  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Did I touch the 3rd Rail Again???


  • Comment by Marcel Belanger.

  • Politically appointed by the premier of one party and politically disappointed by the premier of another party. In politics that’s the way the cookie crumbles. She can live of her nice MLA pension which ordinary citizens DO NOT receive.


  • Comment by Mike Van Fleet.

  • I'm all busted up.

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Me Too


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Reading this really busted me up

    "The following spring, the Liberals introduced legislation to dissolve Efficiency N.B., fire Blaney and block her from suing over the termination. The law was passed in March 2015 but applied retroactively to Oct. 16, 2014.

    The then-Liberal energy minister who introduced the bill, Donald Arseneault, had been summoned to testify Wednesday by Blaney's lawyer Kelly VanBuskirk.

    Arseneault showed up, and chatted amiably with Blaney before the hearing, but VanBuskirk opted not to call him as a witness."


  • Comment by MR Cain.

  • A journalist and a politician. Guess these credentials are not enough for a job but fine as an appointment.


  • Comment by Toby Tolly.

  • Another story from Poitras

    Keeps me ....

    thirsty for the Jacques?

    • Reply by David Amos.

    I enjoy them


  • Comment by Bob de trelleg.

  • Poor Maggie, this is breaking my heart.

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Yea Right


  • Comment by David Amos.

  • Methinks Mr Outhouse has lots to study before Apple Blossom Time N'esy Pas?

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Murphy's Law states that if there are two or more ways to do something, and one of those ways can result in a catastrophe, then someone will do it.


  • Comment by valmond landry.

  • MRS BLANEY was one of the best minister we ever had i know i contacted her a few time with different issues and she would do her best to help a lot better than what we have right now, a my way or no way government

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Ask her if she remembers me


  • Comment by Paul Doe .

  • Whether or not such jobs should be opened for the public to apply for or just filled by Cabinet appointment is a very important debate...I would side on it being open to public application and not by Cabinet appointment.

    However, that is not the question here...the question is whether she was fired only because of her political affiliation and if that is okay. I would say that is not okay but it is not clear to me she was fired for that reason...it seems the organization was dissolved (which was, no doubt, a political decision) and because it didn't exist anymore, she was fired. Either way, it stinks bad when a government introduces legislation to block someone from being able to sue...that is cowardly...like they knew they were doing something wrong.

    • Reply by David Amos.

  • Live by the sword Die by the sword

  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Oh My My Trust that you would have agreed with me


  • Comment by Bobby Richards.

  • Yennah Hurley, Deputy Minister of Tourism, is a Higgs patronage appointment. Hopefully she gets tossed. She does know more than Minister Tammy Scott Wallace but that isn’t saying much.

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Say Hey to Tammy for me will ya?


  • Comment by Marc LeBlanc.

  • I hear Holt Renfrew has a bargain basement now. That might help...

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Surely you jest


  • Comment by Daniel Franklin.

  • "Catastrophic"? Hyperbole much? If you can't find a job, look harder. There's lots out there.

    • Reply by David Amos.

  • She certainly can cry a river

  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Yup


  • Comment by Gregory Wulf.

  • People wonder why quality candidates shy away from government positions.

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Its not rocket science. Decent people are not shy they just don't want to play the wicked game. However people who studied political science always fail to see the obvious


  • Comment by Alex Butt.

  • Yet another politician trying to milk the taxpayers out of our hard earned tax dollars.

    • Reply by Gregory Wulf.

    Smaller government is better if only because it limits the number of opportunities for waste.


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Oh So True


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose N'esy Pas?


  • Comment by Kyle Woodman.

  • Ultimately this is the issue with patronage posts. We were lucky to get MAB off the payroll, but there are many other cases, on both sides, where the person just gets shuffled to another job when the new government comes in. Given the number of flip flops we have done in the past 20 or so years, GNB is full to the brim with patronage appointments with nothing to do, because they have no real skills. I wonder where Yennah Hurley will end up when Higgs isn't there to protect her anymore.

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Former cabinet ministers and many of their minion always reappear on the Gravy Train


  • Comment by Kyle Woodman.

  • She needs to go away.

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Ditto


  • Comment by Christopher Logan.

  • Wow. And here she is again, back at the public trough with another strategy to extract money from taxpayers

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Its just another one of those things she does that some folks fail to appreciate


  • Comment by Bill Watson.

  • Oh no. She had to leave her province to find work. Why is that an issue?

    • Reply by David Amos.

    She has done it before


  • Reply by Bill Watson.

  • I don't understand why people don't leave their city, province or country to find work. When I started my engineering career decades ago, I spent years in very remote areas in the territories and even in other countries. It's just what you do to build experience.


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • I did the opposite I found a place I liked to live then worked for myself


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • BTW I considered engineering long ago but found that UNB and I were not a good fit by the end of 1971 so I taught myself what I wanted to know


  • Reply by Christopher Logan.

  • "Because they don't want to" seems like a perfectly acceptable answer to me


  • Reply by Bill Watson.

  • So did I after a couple of decades with large corporations. I became an independent consultant, but ironically, I was almost always travelling to other parts of the world because that's where my clients were.


  • Reply by Bill Watson.

  • I hear ya. I went through engineering (undergrad and masters) even though I knew I didn't want to do engineering. I did it to give myself a more solid foundation for my eventual career.


  • Reply by Bill Watson.

  • Then they shouldn't complain if they can't find work or they can't find a job they don't like.


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • My brother graduated from UNB with an engineering degree and worked as one for awhile but quit and made his fortune selling cars in Fat Fred City


  • Reply by Bill Watson.

  • That's a great story. It's like when I was in leadership roles, I made of point to appointment people to management positions that was not their background; like put a senior engineer in charge of HR or a marketing person in charge of engineering.


  • Comment by Luc Gervis.

  • Reading through this it was nothing but a patronage appointment to begin with. No reason whatsoever the position should have been opened up for her and as the job and role was eliminated, she really has no complaint.

    More sour grapes than enything.

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Amen


  • Comment by Wilbur Ross.

  • Poor thing. "Had to start over." 😭🎻🎻😭

    • Reply by David Amos.

    She has done that before several times


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Margaret-Ann Blaney worked as a reporter for both television and radio from 1982 to 1993, when she met Wayne Gretzky and became a candidate against Brian Tobin in the 1993 Canadian federal election, finishing a distant second. Shortly thereafter she married and moved to Rothesay, New Brunswick where she managed her husband's veterinary practice. In 1994, Ms. Blaney and her husband started their own small business, the Atlantic Veterinary Hospital in Rothesay, N.B. She was active in the business as co-owner / general manager until June 1999. In 1997, she was a candidate for leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of New Brunswick, losing to Bernard Lord.

    Political career

    She was elected to the New Brunswick legislature in the 1999 election and was named to cabinet as Minister of Transportation. While minister, her riding executive solicited donations from highway contractors, implying that Blaney would favour those who donated. There was briefly a large amount of controversy surrounding this, however; the Moncton Times & Transcript newspaper ran an editorial cartoon with one contractor asking another, while referring to a bulge in his pocket, "Is that Margaret-Ann Blaney in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" This cartoon was derided as sexist and both Blaney and Bernard Lord cried in the legislature when commenting on it. The legislature unanimously passed a motion condemning the cartoon and the controversy soon shifted from Blaney to the paper.[1]

  • Reply by David Amos.

  • In 2001, Blaney was shuffled to the Department of Public Safety. She was re-elected in 2003 and became Minister of Training & Employment Development. On February 14, 2006, she was shuffled out of cabinet; she said this was by choice as she wanted to focus more closely on riding issues. She was re-elected in 2006 and sat in opposition to the new Liberal government.

    On October 12, 2010 Blaney became a member of the Executive Council and Environment Minister, Minister Responsible for the Advisory Council on the Status of Women and Minister Responsible for Communications New Brunswick. On March 15, 2012 Blaney became Energy Minister and Minister Responsible for the Status of Women.

    On May 16, 2012 Blaney announced that she was resigning as a minister and MLA, and had accepted appointment as chief executive officer of Efficiency New Brunswick.[2]

  • Reply by Wilbur Ross.

  • Welcome to the club ... C'est la vie


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Welcome back to the c$rc$s

  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Mais Oui


  • Comment by Lou Bell.

  • Maybe do a search into Provincial leases to Government departments . There are some " doosies " .

    • Reply by David Amos.

    You should do some research too


  • Reply by Bobby Richards.

  • Lou doesn’t research. He just does what Higgs wants him to do.


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Wrong gender

  • Reply by David Amos.

  • He is a she

  • Reply by Shawn Tabor.

  • You don’t say, it’s terrible


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Yea right


  • Reply by Shawn Tabor.

  • Terrible state of affairs in NB


  • Reply by Shawn Tabor.

  • This is just the tip of a iceberg


  • Comment by David Amos.

  • The plot thickens

    • Reply by Joseph Godin.

    As does my seafood chowda.


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Methinks that a proper thing for a decent chowder to do N'esy Pas?


  • Comment by JOhn D Bond.

  • 10 yrs later and its just being heard now.

    Forget what this issue is all about. How can it take that long to get the case heard. That this is in any remotely acceptable is a problem

    Justice delayed is justice denied. Patronage or not, completely unacceptable.

    • Reply by David Amos.

    Why not read the news Like I did over 20 years ago?


  • Reply by JOhn D Bond.

  • The article talks about 2014 not 2004. Perhaps reading the news is a good suggestion.


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Blaney was a Cabinet Minister when this article was published so why should anything surprise her?

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/lawyer-says-liberal-support-means-business-1.411935


  • Reply by David Amos.

  • Lawyer says Liberal support means business

    CBC News · Posted: Feb 27, 2003 5:22 PM AST | Last Updated: February 27, 2003

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    A prominent New Brunswick lawyer has no trouble admitting his support of the federal Liberal party translates into government business. David Lutz of Hampton says his firm works for the federal Justice Department because he works for the party.

    Last February, David Lutz sent a memo to the staff at his firm instructing them when, where and how to vote for Shawn Graham in the provincial Liberal leadership race.

    The memo said voting for Graham would help the firm, because its number one client is the federal department of justice, and that business is secured by Lutz's profile in the party.

    "We've done work work for the party in the past, and it's been my experience that the party returns the favour," Lutz said on Thursday.

    The business brought up to $100,000 in revenue to the firm in 2002, enough to keep three of his employees busy.

    While the lawyer has no trouble talking about the memo, Graham says the memo is news to him.

    "I can say though that I've never discussed government contracts with Mr. Lutz or with the Federal Department of Justice. And I can't comment on the observations made in this memo because it was an inter-office memo in a private sector company and certainly nothing I had any involvement in."

    The leader says he does appreciate the support Lutz provided in helping him win the Liberal leadership.


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