David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Methinks people wanna see a circus so ya give them a circus Looks like CBC is a success in that regard N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/01/canadian-cities-rethink-removal-of.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/fluoride-tap-water1901124-1.4990257
Canadian cities rethink removal of fluoride from tap water
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drew Currah
Flouride is the principal ingredient in Prozac. The idea of adding flouride to drinking water was began by the Nazis. I don't want flouride added to my water, that's for sure. https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/dec/08/jesse-ventura/jesse-ventura-says-nazis-pioneered-use-fluoridated/
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William Weston
@drew Currah
I am uncertain which side of the debate that comment is intended to serve.
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David R. Amos
@William Weston Methinks people wanna see a circus so ya give them a circus Looks like CBC is a success in that regard N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos
Methinks folks should talk to my buddy the dentist Roger Richard about his debate over fluoridation N'esy Pas?
Roger Richard
A good article to place issues in perspective: https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1104912
"Developmental Fluoride Neurotoxicity: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis" Environmental Health Perspectives volume120 number10 October2012 page1362-1368. http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1104912/ In the article it is stated: "…The average loss was seven IQ points for commonly used IQ scores with a standard deviation of 15." The lead author further concludes: "These results do not allow us to make any judgment regarding possible levels of risk at levels of exposure typical for water fluoridation in the U. S. On the other hand, neither can it be concluded that no risk is present.
"Developmental Fluoride Neurotoxicity: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis" Environmental Health Perspectives volume120 number10 October2012 page1362-1368. http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1104912/ In the article it is stated: "…The average loss was seven IQ points for commonly used IQ scores with a standard deviation of 15." The lead author further concludes: "These results do not allow us to make any judgment regarding possible levels of risk at levels of exposure typical for water fluoridation in the U. S. On the other hand, neither can it be concluded that no risk is present.
Bart Roberts
@Roger Richard
So, there's a study that nothing can be concluded from?
Why even mention it? At all?
Why call it good?
So, there's a study that nothing can be concluded from?
Why even mention it? At all?
Why call it good?
Steven Slott
@Roger Richard
Here’s the “perspective” on the long-since discredited studies in that meta-analysis:
The "reduced IQ studies" are a reference to a 2011 review of 27 Chinese studies dug out of obscure Chinese journals by researchers Phillippe Grandjean and Anna Choi. These studies were of the effects of high levels of fluoride (as high as 11.5 ppm) in the well-water of various Chinese, Mongolian, and Iranian villages.
By the admission of Grandjean and Choi, themselves, these studies had key information missing, inadequate control for confounders, and questionable methodologies. These 27 studies were so seriously flawed that Grandjean and Choi were led to issue a public statement in March, 2012 that the studies should not be used to judge water fluoridation in the US. This obviously has not stopped antifluoridationists from doing so anyway.
"These results do not allow us to make any judgment regarding possible levels of risk at levels of exposure typical for water fluoridation in the U.S. On the other hand, neither can it be concluded that no risk is present. We therefore recommend further research to clarify what role fluoride exposure levels may play in possible adverse effects on brain development, so that future risk assessments can properly take into regard this possible hazard."
--Anna Choi, research scientist in the Department of Environmental Health at HSPH, lead author, and Philippe Grandjean, adjunct professor of environmental health at HSPH, senior author.
https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2012/07/Media-Statement_Fluoride-9-12-12-Revised2.pdf
Steven D. Slott, DDS
Here’s the “perspective” on the long-since discredited studies in that meta-analysis:
The "reduced IQ studies" are a reference to a 2011 review of 27 Chinese studies dug out of obscure Chinese journals by researchers Phillippe Grandjean and Anna Choi. These studies were of the effects of high levels of fluoride (as high as 11.5 ppm) in the well-water of various Chinese, Mongolian, and Iranian villages.
By the admission of Grandjean and Choi, themselves, these studies had key information missing, inadequate control for confounders, and questionable methodologies. These 27 studies were so seriously flawed that Grandjean and Choi were led to issue a public statement in March, 2012 that the studies should not be used to judge water fluoridation in the US. This obviously has not stopped antifluoridationists from doing so anyway.
"These results do not allow us to make any judgment regarding possible levels of risk at levels of exposure typical for water fluoridation in the U.S. On the other hand, neither can it be concluded that no risk is present. We therefore recommend further research to clarify what role fluoride exposure levels may play in possible adverse effects on brain development, so that future risk assessments can properly take into regard this possible hazard."
--Anna Choi, research scientist in the Department of Environmental Health at HSPH, lead author, and Philippe Grandjean, adjunct professor of environmental health at HSPH, senior author.
https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2012/07/Media-Statement_Fluoride-9-12-12-Revised2.pdf
Steven D. Slott, DDS
Todd Saskiw
@Steven Slott Ignorance is
bad enough, but I find it oh-so convenient how the OP left out the
final, heavily qualifier-laden, sentence of the study's conclusion: "We
therefore recommend further research to clarify what role fluoride
exposure levels may play in possible adverse effects on brain
development, so that future risk assessments can properly take into
regard this possible hazard."
David R. Amos
@Bart Roberts "So, there's a study that nothing can be concluded from? "
Methinks the scientists may have partaken of too much fluoride hence they are confused N'esy Pas?
Methinks the scientists may have partaken of too much fluoride hence they are confused N'esy Pas?
Randy Ellis
@Roger Richard
If that is the same meta-analysis as the Harvard study it has been debunked completely and almost comically. One of the funnier parts was the fact that not a single one of the studies involved tap water that had flouride added to it.
If that is the same meta-analysis as the Harvard study it has been debunked completely and almost comically. One of the funnier parts was the fact that not a single one of the studies involved tap water that had flouride added to it.
Roger Richard
Taking in consideration the
accumulation of fluoride in the various tissues over time, who among us
would prescribe fluoridated water to our children and risking to
interfere with their brain development: brainy child or toothy child?
Charles Knowlton
@Roger Richard
There is no proof to what you say. None. Fluoride does not interfere with brain development. Except in the world of Facebook hysteria.
There is no proof to what you say. None. Fluoride does not interfere with brain development. Except in the world of Facebook hysteria.
Roger Richard
@Charles Knowlton Try:
"Effects of fluoride on microtubule ultrastructure and expression of
Tuba1a and Tubb2a in mouse hippocampus." Chemosphere 139 (2015) 422–427
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653515007316 .
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653515007316 .
Hans Johnsen
@Roger Richard Again, this is
for very large concentrations of Fluoride. The concern is with
untreated water that naturally has very high Fluoride levels. Its a
problem in rural china. There is no evidence of adverse effects in low
concentrations. And this does not talk about accumulation effects, so
I'm not sure where you are getting that.
https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/opinions_layman/fluoridation/en/l-3/2.htm
https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/opinions_layman/fluoridation/en/l-3/2.htm
Bart Roberts
@Roger Richard look up 'epidemiology'.
Now look up 'fluorosis epidemiology'.
Anyone with a sufficiently powerful microscope can engineer concern about any chemical if they look through cellular microstructures long enough. It's just plain bad science.
There's no demonstrated health effect of modern fluoridation of water lacking in natural fluoride, after seven decades of study.
Now look up 'fluorosis epidemiology'.
Anyone with a sufficiently powerful microscope can engineer concern about any chemical if they look through cellular microstructures long enough. It's just plain bad science.
There's no demonstrated health effect of modern fluoridation of water lacking in natural fluoride, after seven decades of study.
Steven Slott
@Roger Richard
If fluoridated water required prescription, which it does not, I most certainly would prescribe it to our children. There is no risk “to interfere with their brain development”, or any of any other adverse effect from optimally fluoridated water. There is only benefit in the form of reduced incidence of very dangerous bacterial infection occurring in close proximity to the brain with a direct pathway to the rest of the body via a common bloodstream.
Lifetimes of extreme pain, debilitation, black discoloration and loss of teeth, development of serious medical conditions, and life-threatening infections.....or.....prevention of such?
Steven D. Slott, DDS
If fluoridated water required prescription, which it does not, I most certainly would prescribe it to our children. There is no risk “to interfere with their brain development”, or any of any other adverse effect from optimally fluoridated water. There is only benefit in the form of reduced incidence of very dangerous bacterial infection occurring in close proximity to the brain with a direct pathway to the rest of the body via a common bloodstream.
Lifetimes of extreme pain, debilitation, black discoloration and loss of teeth, development of serious medical conditions, and life-threatening infections.....or.....prevention of such?
Steven D. Slott, DDS
Steven Slott
@Roger Richard
The study to which you provide a link is of the effects on mice from fluoride at the concentrations of 25, 50, and 100 mg/liter. Water is fluoridated at 0.7 mg/liter.
Your study hardly seems relevant now, does it?
Steven D. Slott, DDS
The study to which you provide a link is of the effects on mice from fluoride at the concentrations of 25, 50, and 100 mg/liter. Water is fluoridated at 0.7 mg/liter.
Your study hardly seems relevant now, does it?
Steven D. Slott, DDS
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David R. Amos
@Roger Richard Methinks it is
pretty clear that anyone who speaks against fluoride is much attacked
or their comment threads are deleted. It appears you have struck a nerve
N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos
@Roger Richard Methinks the worst flack is when you are over the target N'esy Pas?
Randy Ellis
@Roger Richard
Weird, the link to the study describing the "accumulation of fluoride in the various tissues over time" you referred to must have gotten cut off.
Care to try again? Surely you weren't just making stuff up, right?
Weird, the link to the study describing the "accumulation of fluoride in the various tissues over time" you referred to must have gotten cut off.
Care to try again? Surely you weren't just making stuff up, right?
Roger Richard
From the British Dental Journal 216, E3 (2014): Fluoride intake of infants living in non-fluoridated and fluoridated areas. F.
V. Zohoori1, G. Whaley1, P. J. Moynihan2,3,4 & A. Maguire2 http://
www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v216/n2/full/sj.bdj.2014.35.html .
This one concludes that "Infants living in fluoridated areas may receive a
fluoride intake, from diet only, of more than the suggested optimal range for TDFI
(total daily fluoride intake). This emphasizes the importance of estimating TDFI
at an individual level when recommendations for fluoride use are being
considered."
Roger Richard
For many years now, fluoride
has been identified to be very toxic to the environment. Some types of
mining industries are producing this fluoride as a waste by-product.
Those industries have difficulty to dispose it because of environment
laws. They found that by selling the fluoride to municipalities it is
easier to do: less rigorous process…
Randy Ellis
@Roger Richard
Did you get that from Alex Jones conspiracy website or was it some other conspiracy website?
Did you get that from Alex Jones conspiracy website or was it some other conspiracy website?
@Randy Ellis Take time to read the fluoride history.
Roger Richard
March 2014 a peer revue
medical journal "The Lancet Neurology" publish the following article
"Neurobehavioral effects of developmental toxicity":
http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laneur/PIIS1474-4422(13)70278-3.pdf . The article identifies eleven industrial chemicals as developmental neurotoxicants. Fluoride made the list. The article explain what developmental neurotoxicant means among other important information. It essentially means that fluoride affect the normal development of the brain.
http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laneur/PIIS1474-4422(13)70278-3.pdf . The article identifies eleven industrial chemicals as developmental neurotoxicants. Fluoride made the list. The article explain what developmental neurotoxicant means among other important information. It essentially means that fluoride affect the normal development of the brain.
Beth Andrews
@Roger Richard
Claim: A new study published in the Lancet has officially declared that fluoride is a neurotoxin.
Snopes says false.
Details and evidence here:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/new-study-officially-declare-fluoride-neurotoxin/
Claim: A new study published in the Lancet has officially declared that fluoride is a neurotoxin.
Snopes says false.
Details and evidence here:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/new-study-officially-declare-fluoride-neurotoxin/
Will Eves
@Roger Richard
My parents always told me that if I ate the tooth paste it would make me simple.
My parents always told me that if I ate the tooth paste it would make me simple.
Randy Ellis
@Will Eves
Apparently they were correct but you ate it anyway.
Apparently they were correct but you ate it anyway.
Theodora Cervantes
@Beth Andrews
I think I'll trust the Lancet over Snopes. One's a peer-reviewed journal, the other a random website.
I think I'll trust the Lancet over Snopes. One's a peer-reviewed journal, the other a random website.
Roger Richard
@Beth Andrews Knowing this
controversy, would you prescribe fluoride supplement to your children if
you do not reside in a fluoridated community?
Bryan Atkinson
I grew up on fluoridated
water. I had 4 cavities in 69 years. My parents were fluoride free in
their youth. They both had cavity filled mouths.
I'm too old now to be affected by the misinformation in circulation. It's today's youth who will pay for the mistakes of those spreading fear.
I'm too old now to be affected by the misinformation in circulation. It's today's youth who will pay for the mistakes of those spreading fear.
Harry Henderson
@david mccaig
You sure love your conspiracy theories.........
You sure love your conspiracy theories.........
david mccaig
@Harry Henderson
Fluoride is a highly toxic substance. Consider, for example, the poison warning that the FDA now requires on all fluoride toothpastes sold in the U.S. or the tens of millions of people throughout China and India who now suffer serious crippling bone diseases from drinking water with elevated levels of fluoride.
Fluoride is a highly toxic substance. Consider, for example, the poison warning that the FDA now requires on all fluoride toothpastes sold in the U.S. or the tens of millions of people throughout China and India who now suffer serious crippling bone diseases from drinking water with elevated levels of fluoride.
david mccaig
@Harry Henderson
In terms of acute toxicity (i.e., the dose that can cause immediate toxic consequences), fluoride is more toxic than lead, but slightly less toxic than arsenic. This is why fluoride has long been used in rodenticides and pesticides to kill pests like rats and insects. It is also why accidents involving over-ingestion of fluoridated dental products–including fluoride gels, fluoride supplements, and fluoridated water–can cause serious poisoning incidents, including death.
In terms of acute toxicity (i.e., the dose that can cause immediate toxic consequences), fluoride is more toxic than lead, but slightly less toxic than arsenic. This is why fluoride has long been used in rodenticides and pesticides to kill pests like rats and insects. It is also why accidents involving over-ingestion of fluoridated dental products–including fluoride gels, fluoride supplements, and fluoridated water–can cause serious poisoning incidents, including death.
Tim Hopper
@Bryan Atkinson
Agreed, and most disturbing is that they only *pretend* to believe that flouride's harmful, in order to get attention, the same as the flat-earthers, even if it means harming the community.
Agreed, and most disturbing is that they only *pretend* to believe that flouride's harmful, in order to get attention, the same as the flat-earthers, even if it means harming the community.
Julia James
@Bryan Atkinson Vaccinations
work, fluoride in the water works. Problem is some people think there
smarter than everyone else every generation thinking there the first to
discover how bad things are with vacs and fluoride. been answered over
and over, same as climate change. Believe the science or the hoax. WHO
says anti vaxxers are putting humanity at risk bringing back and
spreading all the old diseases. Was the polio vax a fraud, measles,
mumps, aids etc...wake up. If they were frauds everyone would be dieing,
just you people get sicker more and spread more diseases. Now want
spread cavitys everywhere. lol
Bryan Atkinson
@david mccaig
Where are your studies detailing higher than normal cancer rates in communities who fluoridate their water?
Surely there must be some by now. If not, maybe your fear is irrational.
Where are your studies detailing higher than normal cancer rates in communities who fluoridate their water?
Surely there must be some by now. If not, maybe your fear is irrational.
Janice Vian
@david mccaig
I don’t care if industry benefits from selling fluoride as a water additive. I care that cavity rates go down with that water additive. Calgary’s cavity rates have gone up since fluoride was removed.
I don’t care if industry benefits from selling fluoride as a water additive. I care that cavity rates go down with that water additive. Calgary’s cavity rates have gone up since fluoride was removed.
Roger Richard
@Bryan Atkinson From the British Dental Journal 216, E3 (2014):
Fluoride intake of infants living in non-fluoridated and fluoridated areas. F.
V. Zohoori1, G. Whaley1, P. J. Moynihan2,3,4 & A. Maguire2 http://
www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v216/n2/full/sj.bdj.2014.35.html .
This one concludes that "Infants living in fluoridated areas may receive a
fluoride intake, from diet only, of more than the suggested optimal range for TDFI
(total daily fluoride intake). This emphasizes the importance of estimating TDFI
at an individual level when recommendations for fluoride use are being
considered."
Fluoride intake of infants living in non-fluoridated and fluoridated areas. F.
V. Zohoori1, G. Whaley1, P. J. Moynihan2,3,4 & A. Maguire2 http://
www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v216/n2/full/sj.bdj.2014.35.html .
This one concludes that "Infants living in fluoridated areas may receive a
fluoride intake, from diet only, of more than the suggested optimal range for TDFI
(total daily fluoride intake). This emphasizes the importance of estimating TDFI
at an individual level when recommendations for fluoride use are being
considered."
Bryan Atkinson
@Roger Richard
Windsor is experiencing high levels of tooth decay among children since they stopped fluoridating their water supply.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-tooth-decay-fluoride-1.3546919
They even cite before and after examples of different children within the same family.
Windsor is experiencing high levels of tooth decay among children since they stopped fluoridating their water supply.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-tooth-decay-fluoride-1.3546919
They even cite before and after examples of different children within the same family.
Andreas Burnett
@Bryan Atkinson
Buy some fluoridated toothpaste, a toothbrush and leave the rest of us alone. Government gets kickbacks from the waste disposal industry for pushing this nonsense. Can you tell?
Buy some fluoridated toothpaste, a toothbrush and leave the rest of us alone. Government gets kickbacks from the waste disposal industry for pushing this nonsense. Can you tell?
Roger Richard
@Bryan Atkinson Knowing this
controversy, would you prescribe fluoride supplement to your children
if you do not reside in a fluoridated community?
Andrew Stephenson
@Andreas Burnett
Fluorosilicate doen't generate free radicals; it is not an oxidizing agent.
The balance of anions is trivial - it's fully dissociated in water and there's far more variability on local geography than anything added during processing (our slightly brackish groundwater has a thousand times more natural sodium than the circa 1ppm added by fluoridation).
Fluorosilicate doen't generate free radicals; it is not an oxidizing agent.
The balance of anions is trivial - it's fully dissociated in water and there's far more variability on local geography than anything added during processing (our slightly brackish groundwater has a thousand times more natural sodium than the circa 1ppm added by fluoridation).
Chris Van Ihinger
I thank Hogtown for
fluoridated water. My teeth thank Hogtown for fluoridated water.
Everyone who enjoys looking at my smile thank Hogtown for fluoridated
water.
Andreas Burnett
@Chris Van Ihinger
Your oncologist and cardiologist might also thank you for using fluoride. Did you know it is carcinogenic and implicated in hardening arteries? Did you know it is a highly toxic byproduct of aluminum smelting? Is this really about helping our health or helping big business make an extra buck?
Brush your teeth, stop eating so much sugar. Stay healthy.
Your oncologist and cardiologist might also thank you for using fluoride. Did you know it is carcinogenic and implicated in hardening arteries? Did you know it is a highly toxic byproduct of aluminum smelting? Is this really about helping our health or helping big business make an extra buck?
Brush your teeth, stop eating so much sugar. Stay healthy.
Don Smith
@Andreas Burnett
Believe in Chemtrails & poisonous Vaccination's too
Believe in Chemtrails & poisonous Vaccination's too
Andreas Burnett
@Don Smith
Check the studies yourself. You may find that there has been ongoing debate between industry and health advocates in this area for a long time -for good reason.
Check the studies yourself. You may find that there has been ongoing debate between industry and health advocates in this area for a long time -for good reason.
Andreas Burnett
@Don Smith
And you believe that glyphosate and GMOs are good for you too right? Lead in garden hoses and brass plumbing fittings are also totally safe right? Asbestos, lead paint, no problem, we can trust the government to mass medicate us right?
And you believe that glyphosate and GMOs are good for you too right? Lead in garden hoses and brass plumbing fittings are also totally safe right? Asbestos, lead paint, no problem, we can trust the government to mass medicate us right?
Yves Marchand
@Andreas Burnett Guilt by
association is hardly good science or public policy. You have the right
to have misinformed views, or to have irrational fears, but that is
hardly the basis for good public policy.
William Weston
@Chris Van Ihinger
I thank great dentistry in Toronto for the state of my teeth.
I thank great dentistry in Toronto for the state of my teeth.
John Oaktree
@William Weston
And fluoride in your water...
If you hadn't had fluoride in your water, you'd have lots of fillings and cavities regardless of how good your dentist is...
And fluoride in your water...
If you hadn't had fluoride in your water, you'd have lots of fillings and cavities regardless of how good your dentist is...
William Weston
@John Oaktree
We brought our drinking water from the well on our property in Haliburton. It tasted so much better even the cats preferred it.
We brought our drinking water from the well on our property in Haliburton. It tasted so much better even the cats preferred it.
david mccaig
@Chris Van Ihinger
The “research science” done to support water fluoridation was underwritten by these massive companies:
Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA)
Aluminum Company of Canada
American Petroleum Institute
Dupont
Kaiser Aluminum
Reynolds Steel
US Steel
National Institute of Dental Research
Convincing the general public that we need to add fluoride to our water supply was one of the most sophisticated cons of all time. It created a multi-billion dollar industry and enabled manufacturers to sell this worthless toxic byproduct of aluminum to local municipalities for a profit.
The “research science” done to support water fluoridation was underwritten by these massive companies:
Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA)
Aluminum Company of Canada
American Petroleum Institute
Dupont
Kaiser Aluminum
Reynolds Steel
US Steel
National Institute of Dental Research
Convincing the general public that we need to add fluoride to our water supply was one of the most sophisticated cons of all time. It created a multi-billion dollar industry and enabled manufacturers to sell this worthless toxic byproduct of aluminum to local municipalities for a profit.
david mccaig
@Chris Van Ihinger
Although fluoride advocates have claimed for years that the safety of fluoride in dentistry is exhaustively documented and “beyond debate,” the Chairman of the National Research Council’s (NRC) comprehensive fluoride review, Dr. John Doull, recently stated that: “when we looked at the studies that have been done, we found that many of these questions are unsettled and we have much less information than we should, considering how long this [fluoridation] has been going on. I think that’s why fluoridation is still being challenged so many years after it began.”
Although fluoride advocates have claimed for years that the safety of fluoride in dentistry is exhaustively documented and “beyond debate,” the Chairman of the National Research Council’s (NRC) comprehensive fluoride review, Dr. John Doull, recently stated that: “when we looked at the studies that have been done, we found that many of these questions are unsettled and we have much less information than we should, considering how long this [fluoridation] has been going on. I think that’s why fluoridation is still being challenged so many years after it began.”
Chris Van Ihinger
Commenter Andreas Burnett is
correct about eating less sugar. We are not so sure about his other
claims, and if so how they impact the health benefits of flouridated
water.
Perhaps if commenter Burnett would provide links to his source material?
Perhaps if commenter Burnett would provide links to his source material?
Chris Van Ihinger
COmenter david mccaig makes
reference to what may be very interesting material here; in particular
to the information attributed to the Chairman of our NRC.
We checked the NRC website (www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca) and found no mention of Dr. John Doull.
Perhaps if commenter McCaig would provide links to his source material?
We checked the NRC website (www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca) and found no mention of Dr. John Doull.
Perhaps if commenter McCaig would provide links to his source material?
@david mccaig This report was
studying an amount of fluoride concentration of 4mg/L, the maximum
amount allowed by the EPA. The recommended range of fluoride in drinking
water by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services was
0.7-1.2mg/L from 1962 to 2007 and is now 0.7mg/L. Also note that this
review didn't say that water fluoridation is bad it just recommended the
EPA lower the maximum concentration allowed in drinking water.
So yes when studying an extremely high dosage of fluoride that about 1% of the US population was exposed to there is some debate.
So yes when studying an extremely high dosage of fluoride that about 1% of the US population was exposed to there is some debate.
Andreas Burnett
@Chris Van Ihinger
Knock yourself out with all the fluoridated toothpaste you can dream of. Why do you have to bother the rest of us? Oh yeah, government employees getting a kickback from waste removal services. Thanks Hogtown, now buy yourself some Colgate.
Knock yourself out with all the fluoridated toothpaste you can dream of. Why do you have to bother the rest of us? Oh yeah, government employees getting a kickback from waste removal services. Thanks Hogtown, now buy yourself some Colgate.
From the British Dental Journal 216, E3 (2014):
Fluoride intake of infants living in non-fluoridated and fluoridated areas. F.
V. Zohoori1, G. Whaley1, P. J. Moynihan2,3,4 & A. Maguire2 http://
www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v216/n2/full/sj.bdj.2014.35.html .
This one concludes that "Infants living in fluoridated areas may receive a
fluoride intake, from diet only, of more than the suggested optimal range for TDFI
(total daily fluoride intake). This emphasizes the importance of estimating TDFI
at an individual level when recommendations for fluoride use are being
considered.
Chris Van Ihinger
Commenter Roger Richard raises an interesting point here.
But wait - there's more! He offers a link to a high quality study that was originally published in the British Dental Journal and is available on the Nature website.
A quick read of the Abstract indicates that measurements taken of the participating test subjects indicated that both the tested and control infants contained similar amounts of fluoride in their systems, all of it obtained from the foods they were consuming.
Given the short period that CBC keeps its comments open, it was worth thanking Mr. Richard for bringing this study to our attention, prior to reading beyond the Abstract. We will continue reading the whole article and recommend all who have an interest in the fluoridation issue should review the complete study.
But wait - there's more! He offers a link to a high quality study that was originally published in the British Dental Journal and is available on the Nature website.
A quick read of the Abstract indicates that measurements taken of the participating test subjects indicated that both the tested and control infants contained similar amounts of fluoride in their systems, all of it obtained from the foods they were consuming.
Given the short period that CBC keeps its comments open, it was worth thanking Mr. Richard for bringing this study to our attention, prior to reading beyond the Abstract. We will continue reading the whole article and recommend all who have an interest in the fluoridation issue should review the complete study.
Andrew Stephenson
@david mccaig
Smelters work on a closed cycle. They recycle the fluorine compounds into new cryolite. Diversion of products out of this loop for other uses actually costs that money, because they need to introduce the lost fluorine back into the electrolysis pits somehow.
Smelters work on a closed cycle. They recycle the fluorine compounds into new cryolite. Diversion of products out of this loop for other uses actually costs that money, because they need to introduce the lost fluorine back into the electrolysis pits somehow.
POOF
Notification - Comment on cbc.ca
| New comments have been made at "cbc.ca" in the conversation Canadian cities rethink removal of fluoride from tap water | CBC News |
drew Currah said:
| "Flouride is the principal
ingredient in Prozac.
The idea of adding flouride to drinking water was began by the Nazis.
I don't want flouride added to my water, that's for sure.
https://www.politifact.com/pun |
Canadian cities rethink removal of fluoride from tap water
As some city councils vote against fluoridation, one mayor asks for health ministries to take over
It shouldn't be up to cities to decide to add fluoride to drinking water, but provincial officials, a Canadian mayor says.
Windsor, Ont., is bucking a national trend and looking at lifting its ban on adding fluoride to drinking water after seeing an increase in cavities among children.
Community water fluoridation is recommended by public health, medical and dental groups, including the Canadian and American Dental Associations, Canada's Chief Dental Officer and the World Health Organization. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention called its contribution to the decline in cavities one of the 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century.
Fluoride is a mineral that binds to the enamel of teeth, strengthening them to prevent bacterial decay.
But ever since Canadian communities first introduced fluoridation in 1945, some cities have gritted their teeth at the contentious addition, and the debate continues. Some Windsor city council members initially argued that fluoride could be obtained cheaply from toothpaste and other critics have presented general fears over adding chemicals to water supplies.
A 2018 review by the Canadian Agency for Drugs and Technologies in Health evaluated dozens of studies on the health effects associated with fluoridation. "The evidence in this review supports the protective role of community water fluoridation in reducing dental caries [cavities] in children and adults," the authors concluded.
Last month, the city council in Windsor, Ont., voted to put fluoride back into its water supply after voting to remove it in 2013.
While Windsor's mayor Drew Dilkens is opposed to fluoridation, he doesn't think it should be up to municipalities to decide.
"If there is truly a health benefit of fluoride in the water system that is legitimate and real, it should be decided and mandated for all water systems across the province of Ontario and across Canada. That is not the case. They leave the decision up to people like me with no science background," said Dilkens.
"You have got to make the decision you think is right for your community and I think that mass medicating the entire water supply for the benefit of very few is not the right thing to do. But council voted otherwise. I respect that decision. We will add fluoride back to the water if another municipality agrees with council's decision."
Studies show fluoridation is effective for the broad population, said Dr. Alexandria Meriano, a pediatric dentist in Windsor.
Like Windsor residents, almost two-thirds of Canadians no longer have fluoride added to their municipal water. In British Columbia, Yukon, Quebec, New Brunswick and Newfoundland and Labrador for instance, less than three per cent of the population has fluoride added to their municipal water. In comparison, it's 74 per cent in the U.S. and the CDC aims to increase that to 80 per cent by 2020.
Yemmi Calito's children are patients of Dr. Meriano. The two oldest kids were raised on fluoridated water in Windsor and both have healthy teeth. Her two youngest weren't, and they've had to be treated for serious tooth decay. Calito said their oral hygiene habits are the same.
"The younger two I feel they have more cavities," Calito said. "My little one, my three-year-old, actually had to go have general anesthesia … [about] four weeks ago to get his teeth fixed. They were in pretty bad shape."
Meriano said she's noticed a difference in her patients before and after fluoridation. "What I am seeing is more cavities at a younger age and more severe cavities at a younger age."
Dr. Alexandria Meriano supports re-introducing fluoride in Windsor's tap water. (Turgut Yeter/CBC)
The advantage of community water fluoridation is it reaches everyone, not just those seeking dental care, Meriano said.
Like Windsor, Calgary is also seeing a spike in kids' cavities after removing fluoride. One city councillor in Calgary is convinced of its health benefits and thinks the city should vote on putting it back.
In affluent areas where there's access to dental care, and people receive advice from dentists on how to counsel their kids to use fluoride toothpaste without swallowing it, then there might be an argument against fluoridation, he said.
Almost two-thirds of Canadians no longer have fluoride added to their municipal water. (Craig Chivers/CBC)
"But
in communities which are poorer, where there is no access to dental
care and where children are not regularly examined in terms of their
dental health, the overwhelming evidence is that you can reduce cavities
by putting fluoride into the water," said Schwarcz, who heads the
McGill Office for Science and Society.
Schwarcz said the debate over fluoridation will never end.
"There will always be people who are convinced that some sort of intervention is going to do them harm. We've seen this over the years not only with fluoride. We've seen them with pasteurization, we've seen it with microwave ovens, with cellphones. Any new technology is initially opposed and then eventually of course when its merit is proven the opposition slowly abates," he said.
"But it never completely goes away."
Windsor, Ont., is bucking a national trend and looking at lifting its ban on adding fluoride to drinking water after seeing an increase in cavities among children.
Community water fluoridation is recommended by public health, medical and dental groups, including the Canadian and American Dental Associations, Canada's Chief Dental Officer and the World Health Organization. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention called its contribution to the decline in cavities one of the 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century.
Fluoride is a mineral that binds to the enamel of teeth, strengthening them to prevent bacterial decay.
But ever since Canadian communities first introduced fluoridation in 1945, some cities have gritted their teeth at the contentious addition, and the debate continues. Some Windsor city council members initially argued that fluoride could be obtained cheaply from toothpaste and other critics have presented general fears over adding chemicals to water supplies.
A 2018 review by the Canadian Agency for Drugs and Technologies in Health evaluated dozens of studies on the health effects associated with fluoridation. "The evidence in this review supports the protective role of community water fluoridation in reducing dental caries [cavities] in children and adults," the authors concluded.
Decisions left to people with 'no science background'
Last month, the city council in Windsor, Ont., voted to put fluoride back into its water supply after voting to remove it in 2013.
While Windsor's mayor Drew Dilkens is opposed to fluoridation, he doesn't think it should be up to municipalities to decide.
"If there is truly a health benefit of fluoride in the water system that is legitimate and real, it should be decided and mandated for all water systems across the province of Ontario and across Canada. That is not the case. They leave the decision up to people like me with no science background," said Dilkens.
"You have got to make the decision you think is right for your community and I think that mass medicating the entire water supply for the benefit of very few is not the right thing to do. But council voted otherwise. I respect that decision. We will add fluoride back to the water if another municipality agrees with council's decision."
Studies show fluoridation is effective for the broad population, said Dr. Alexandria Meriano, a pediatric dentist in Windsor.
Like Windsor residents, almost two-thirds of Canadians no longer have fluoride added to their municipal water. In British Columbia, Yukon, Quebec, New Brunswick and Newfoundland and Labrador for instance, less than three per cent of the population has fluoride added to their municipal water. In comparison, it's 74 per cent in the U.S. and the CDC aims to increase that to 80 per cent by 2020.
Yemmi Calito's children are patients of Dr. Meriano. The two oldest kids were raised on fluoridated water in Windsor and both have healthy teeth. Her two youngest weren't, and they've had to be treated for serious tooth decay. Calito said their oral hygiene habits are the same.
"The younger two I feel they have more cavities," Calito said. "My little one, my three-year-old, actually had to go have general anesthesia … [about] four weeks ago to get his teeth fixed. They were in pretty bad shape."
Meriano said she's noticed a difference in her patients before and after fluoridation. "What I am seeing is more cavities at a younger age and more severe cavities at a younger age."
Like Windsor, Calgary is also seeing a spike in kids' cavities after removing fluoride. One city councillor in Calgary is convinced of its health benefits and thinks the city should vote on putting it back.
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In affluent areas where there's access to dental care, and people receive advice from dentists on how to counsel their kids to use fluoride toothpaste without swallowing it, then there might be an argument against fluoridation, he said.
Schwarcz said the debate over fluoridation will never end.
"There will always be people who are convinced that some sort of intervention is going to do them harm. We've seen this over the years not only with fluoride. We've seen them with pasteurization, we've seen it with microwave ovens, with cellphones. Any new technology is initially opposed and then eventually of course when its merit is proven the opposition slowly abates," he said.
"But it never completely goes away."
With files from CBC's Vik Adhopia
CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices 
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