David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 48 others
Methinks Minister Mikey Holland's ears are burning right now or my name ain't "Just Dave" Anyone can Google "Harper and Bankers" if they don't get my jokes about the circus in Fredericton and Ottawa N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/05/nb-power-reviving-vexed-smart-meter.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/joi-scientific-technology-update-1.5340245
---------- Original message ----------
From: Diane.Lebouthillier@parl.gc.ca
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 13:56:44 +0000
Subject: Réponse automatique : A little Deja Vu for Joi Scientific,
the CBC, the RCMP, the CRA, KPMG, NB Power, Mikey Holland and his
political pals David Coon et al
To: david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Merci d'avoir écrit à l'honorable Diane Lebouthillier, députée de
Gaspésie-Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine. Votre courriel sera lu avec soin et
recevra toute l'attention voulue.
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If your email relates to a meeting request or an invitation to a
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---------- Original message ----------
From: "MinFinance / FinanceMin (FIN)" <fin.minfinance-financemin.
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 13:56:51 +0000
Subject: RE: A little Deja Vu for Joi Scientific, the CBC, the RCMP,
the CRA, KPMG, NB Power, Mikey Holland and his political pals David
Coon et al
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
The Department of Finance acknowledges receipt of your electronic
correspondence. Please be assured that we appreciate receiving your
comments.
Le ministère des Finances accuse réception de votre correspondance
électronique. Soyez assuré(e) que nous apprécions recevoir vos
commentaires.
---------- Original message ----------
From: Premier of Ontario | Premier ministre de l’Ontario <Premier@ontario.ca>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 13:56:44 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: A little Deja Vu for Joi Scientific, the
CBC, the RCMP, the CRA, KPMG, NB Power, Mikey Holland and his
political pals David Coon et al
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Thank you for your email. Your thoughts, comments and input are greatly valued.
You can be assured that all emails and letters are carefully read,
reviewed and taken into consideration.
There may be occasions when, given the issues you have raised and the
need to address them effectively, we will forward a copy of your
correspondence to the appropriate government official. Accordingly, a
response may take several business days.
Thanks again for your email.
______
Merci pour votre courriel. Nous vous sommes très reconnaissants de
nous avoir fait part de vos idées, commentaires et observations.
Nous tenons à vous assurer que nous lisons attentivement et prenons en
considération tous les courriels et lettres que nous recevons.
Dans certains cas, nous transmettrons votre message au ministère
responsable afin que les questions soulevées puissent être traitées de
la manière la plus efficace possible. En conséquence, plusieurs jours
ouvrables pourraient s’écouler avant que nous puissions vous répondre.
Merci encore pour votre courriel.
---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 10:56:40 -0300
Subject: A little Deja Vu for Joi Scientific, the CBC, the RCMP, the CRA,
KPMG, NB Power, Mikey Holland and his political pals David Coon et al
To: vicky@joiscientific.com, wharrison@nbpower.com,
mike.holland@gnb.ca, David.Coon@gnb.ca, Traver@joiscientific.com,
Jacques.Poitras@cbc.ca, David.Akin@globalnews.ca,
news@kingscorecord.com, Newsroom@globeandmail.com,
steve.murphy@ctv.ca, oldmaison@yahoo.com, andre@jafaust.com,
kris.austin@gnb.ca, brian.gallant@gnb.ca, blaine.higgs@gnb.ca,
pm@pm.gc.ca, rick.desaulniers@gnb.ca, michelle.conroy@gnb.ca,
megan.mitton@gnb.ca, kedgwickriver@gmail.com,
kevin.a.arseneau@gnb.ca, greg.byrne@gnb.ca, premier@gnb.ca,
Diane.Lebouthillier@cra-arc.
bill.pentney@justice.gc.ca, Bill.Morneau@canada.ca,
Bill.Blair@cra-arc.gc.ca, Bill.Blair@parl.gc.ca
Cc: motomaniac333@gmail.com, Gerald.Butts@pmo-cpm.gc.ca,
Katie.Telford@pmo-cpm.gc.ca, kathleen.roussel@ppsc-sppc.gc.
Nathalie.Drouin@justice.gc.ca, mcu@justice.gc.ca,
hon.ralph.goodale@canada.ca, Kevin.Vickers@gnb.ca,
Kevin.leahy@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, premier@ontario.ca, PREMIER@gov.ns.ca,
Roger.Brown@fredericton.ca, martin.gaudet@fredericton.ca,
barbara.massey@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, Brenda.Lucki@rcmp-grc.gc.ca,
gthomas@nbpower.com
http://davidraymondamos3.
Friday, 1 March 2019
Stop NB Power deal with mysterious Florida startup, Green leader says
---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 13:11:05 -0400
Subject: Re Joi Scientific, David Coon and NB Power We just talked
Correct Ms Harris?
To: vicky@joiscientific.com, wharrison@nbpower.com,
mike.holland@gnb.ca, David.Coon@gnb.ca
Cc: david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Jacques.Poitras@cbc.ca, David.Akin@globalnews.ca,
news@kingscorecord.com, Newsroom@globeandmail.com,
steve.murphy@ctv.ca, oldmaison@yahoo.com, andre@jafaust.com,
kris.austin@gnb.ca, brian.gallant@gnb.ca, blaine.higgs@gnb.ca,
pm@pm.gc.ca
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
Stop NB Power deal with mysterious Florida startup, Green leader says
Clean-energy company says its 'major' technology has to stay secret for now
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Mar 01, 2019 6:00 AM AT
---------- Original message ----------
From: Newsroom <newsroom@globeandmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 17:11:12 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Re Joi Scientific, David Coon and NB Power
We just talked Correct Ms Harris?
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Thank you for contacting The Globe and Mail.
If your matter pertains to newspaper delivery or you require technical
support, please contact our Customer Service department at
1-800-387-5400 or send an email to customerservice@globeandmail.
If you are reporting a factual error please forward your email to
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/
Bill.Blair@cra-arc.gc.ca, Bill.Blair@parl.gc.ca
Cc: motomaniac333@gmail.com, Gerald.Butts@pmo-cpm.gc.ca,
Katie.Telford@pmo-cpm.gc.ca, kathleen.roussel@ppsc-sppc.gc.
Nathalie.Drouin@justice.gc.ca, mcu@justice.gc.ca,
hon.ralph.goodale@canada.ca, Kevin.Vickers@gnb.ca,
Kevin.leahy@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, premier@ontario.ca, PREMIER@gov.ns.ca,
Roger.Brown@fredericton.ca, martin.gaudet@fredericton.ca,
barbara.massey@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, Brenda.Lucki@rcmp-grc.gc.ca,
gthomas@nbpower.com
http://davidraymondamos3.
Friday, 1 March 2019
Stop NB Power deal with mysterious Florida startup, Green leader says
---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 13:11:05 -0400
Subject: Re Joi Scientific, David Coon and NB Power We just talked
Correct Ms Harris?
To: vicky@joiscientific.com, wharrison@nbpower.com,
mike.holland@gnb.ca, David.Coon@gnb.ca
Cc: david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Jacques.Poitras@cbc.ca, David.Akin@globalnews.ca,
news@kingscorecord.com, Newsroom@globeandmail.com,
steve.murphy@ctv.ca, oldmaison@yahoo.com, andre@jafaust.com,
kris.austin@gnb.ca, brian.gallant@gnb.ca, blaine.higgs@gnb.ca,
pm@pm.gc.ca
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
Stop NB Power deal with mysterious Florida startup, Green leader says
Clean-energy company says its 'major' technology has to stay secret for now
Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Mar 01, 2019 6:00 AM AT
---------- Original message ----------
From: Newsroom <newsroom@globeandmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 17:11:12 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Re Joi Scientific, David Coon and NB Power
We just talked Correct Ms Harris?
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Thank you for contacting The Globe and Mail.
If your matter pertains to newspaper delivery or you require technical
support, please contact our Customer Service department at
1-800-387-5400 or send an email to customerservice@globeandmail.
If you are reporting a factual error please forward your email to
publiceditor@globeandmail.com<
Letters to the Editor can be sent to letters@globeandmail.com
This is the correct email address for requests for news coverage and
press releases.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
Joi Scientific technology NB Power poured millions into doesn't work
Test results for company with $13M NB Power partnership were
'disappointing,' CEO said
Karissa Donkin, Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Oct 31, 2019 6:00 AM AT
450 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Raymond Amos
Here is a little Deja Vu for Higgy et al and NB Power's lawyers in particular
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
Methinks it ain't Rocket Science to Google my name and Joi Scientific
in order to see the entire email and who else got it N'esy Pas?
1 Mar 2019 13:11:05 -0400
Subject: Re Joi Scientific, David Coon and NB Power We just talked
Correct Ms Harris?
David Raymond Amos
Methinks Minister Mikey Holland's ears are burning right now or my
name ain't "Just Dave" Anyone can Google "Harper and Bankers" if they
don't get my jokes about the circus in Fredericton and Ottawa N'esy
Pas?
Trevis L. Kingston
P.T. Barnum said it most clearly: " There's a sucker born every minute."
People who gamble away others money... are jailed.
Yet politicians always seem to hold a "Get out of jail... free" card.
Time to remove those cards from the deck...
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Trevis L. Kingston: P. T. Barnum never said that Why would a
wise man insult his customers? Some say that he did say "People want
to see a circus so you give them a circus" Methinks Higgy and Holland
et all follow that reasoning as they continue to support NB Power
wanting to borrow a 100 million bucks for not so smart meters N'esy
Pas?
Johnny Horton
Reply to @David Raymond Amos:
Clearly you Never shopped at Mazuccas eh?
David Raymond Amos
Surprise Surprise Surprise
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Raymond Amos:
No surprise, other than NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas needing a new pair
of glasses (because he claims to have actually seen this working),
nothing new in NB, the rich get richer, and the poor just a little bit
poorer.
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Raymond Amos:
What do you figure? Link this up with the Liberal government of the
time, mention again we are throwing a few million up north to improve
ports, and the stage is set for an election.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Please enjoy a little Deja Vu
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
David Peters
Full scale, public audit of NB Power.
David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Peters: Need I say that I have been screaming that for
years because everybody knows that theKPMG audits of NB Power are Pure
D BS N'es Pas?
Anyone can read all the documents and the transcripts from the Public
records of the EUB
Here is a little of what was said during a PUBLIC Hearing eactly 2
years ago today
New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board
Commission de L'Energie et des Services Publics N.-B.
PARTICIPANTS - Matter 375
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation for
approval of the schedules of the rates for the fiscal year commencing
April 1, 2018.
held at the Delta Hotel Saint John, New Brunswick, on October 31, 2017.
MS. DESMOND: Good morning, Mr. Chair. Ellen Desmond and from Board
Staff, John Lawton.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Desmond. So today's pre-hearing conference
will deal with the normal issues that we deal with at pre-hearing
conferences, generally is the hearing schedule and process. But as
well we have requests for intervenor status from eight different
entities and we have an objection to one of those requests for
intervenor status and that is the status of Mr. Amos. So I think that
before we get into the schedule, I think it would be useful to go
through the requests for intervenor status. I am just going to wait
here a moment.
David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
All right, i guess the sound system has been fixed. So we are on the
request for intervenor status. The Public Intervenor of course is
deemed to be a party pursuant to Section 49.3 of the EUB Act. And then
we have requests for intervenor status from David Amos, Enbridge Gas
New Brunswick, Gerald Bourque, J.D. Irving, Limited, New Clear Free
Solutions, Roger Richard, Sussex Sharing Club and Utilities Municipal.
And as I had indicated, the Board received a written objection to the
intervention of Mr. Amos.
So, Mr. Furey, do you have any issue with any of the other registered
participants today?
MR. FUREY: No, we don't, Mr. Chair, and the only additional comment I
would make around that is that we recognize that not every proposed
intervenor has necessarily complied perfectly with the provisions of
Rule 3.2.4, but those that have not that we don't object to, we have a
general understanding already of the issues that they would bring to
the proceeding.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you. The Board has in fact reviewed the requests that
we have received for intervenor status. One of the -- one of the
issues that you raise with respect to Mr. Amos is that he has not
indicated in his form -- in his registration form the reason for his
intervention. And in reviewing them, I note that the only other form
where I see that is the form filled out by Mr. Bourque. So at this
stage I just want -- Mr. Bourque perhaps -- you know, you may not have
understood that on these intervenor requests that it's intended that
you would indicate why you want intervenor status, what issues you
would be raising at the hearing. Would you be able to provide that
information at this time? I appreciate it's not on your form.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/joi-scientific-technology-update-1.5340245
Joi Scientific technology NB Power poured millions into doesn't work
Test results for company with $13M NB Power partnership were 'disappointing,' CEO said
· CBC News
Joi Scientific, a company with a multimillion-dollar NB Power partnership, discovered it's been calculating power incorrectly, CBC News has learned. (Karissa Donkin/CBC)
A Florida-based hydrogen company that received millions of public dollars from New Brunswickers has told shareholders that its technology doesn't work as previously described, CBC News has learned.
NB Power paid Joi Scientific $13 million Cdn to license a technology that claims to be able to efficiently generate hydrogen gas from seawater to generate electricity on demand, something that would be a major scientific breakthrough.
Of the payment, $6.7 million came from taxpayers via the province's Regional Development Corporation. NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas said earlier this year that the other half of the licensing fee came from a fund for research and development that is part of the utility's regular annual budget.
One of the company's patents claims it can generate hydrogen at 200 per cent efficiency. For one watt of input energy, the patent says two watts of energy in the form of hydrogen gas are produced.
"We've seen results indicating, clearly indicating, independently witnessed, that it does produce more energy than in," Thomas told CBC News in May.
But this past summer, Joi Scientific CEO Traver Kennedy revealed to shareholders that Joi had been calculating power incorrectly.
NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas, centre, poses with Joi Scientific executives Robert Koeneman, left, and Traver Kennedy on a beach in Cape Canaveral, Fla., in this Joi Scientific promotional image. (Joi Scientific)
And, according to a former Joi Scientific employee, the efficiency of the technology isn't anywhere near what was advertised.
Since June, the company has been using a new method to do its power calculations, Kennedy said in a conference call with shareholders, according to a record obtained by CBC News.
"The results have been both consistent and disappointing," Kennedy told shareholders on the call.
"We've come to learn that the power measurements coming into our circuitry and going all the way back to the wall fundamentally show our current Hydrogen 2.0 technology has poor system efficiencies."
Kennedy told shareholders the company was in "low cash" and only had funding until the end of August.
- NB Power hydrogen-energy project 2 years behind schedule
- Science behind NB Power's hydrogen venture too good to be true, critic says
Kennedy mentioned a technology audit in his call with shareholders.
"Since June, [chief science officer Dr. Adam Wexler] and the technical team have focused on conducting a thorough technology audit and investigation into the current state of the art of our Hydrogen 2.0 technology," Kennedy said on the call.
The findings of the audit haven't been made public, but CBC News has requested a copy from NB Power.
The public utility declined an interview request for Thomas to talk about the future of the technology it has licensed.
"We have no comment at this time," NB Power spokesperson Marc Belliveau wrote in an email on Thursday.
'A red flag'
According to one former Joi Scientific employee, the claim of 200 per cent efficiency is "impossible." At best, the former employee said, the company could report 20 per cent efficiency.
"If you speak to any chemist worth their salt, they'll know that hydrogen from seawater is going to be very, very difficult," the former employee said.
"So how they got people on board, I'm not sure."
CBC News is calling the former employee "Alex" to protect their identity.
Joi Scientific is housed at the Space Life Sciences Lab in Merritt Island, Fla. (Karissa Donkin/CBC)
Not only was it "not possible," but Alex said the company's technology "really wasn't even able to be demonstrated."
"It never matched up with what they were trying to claim."
For Alex, a turning point came when reading the company's patents. Alex noticed some of the patents cited Stanley Meyer, a discredited U.S. inventor who claimed to have come up with a car powered on water.
"A lot of those [Meyer] patents kind of were very similar to what we had, and that's when it really became real to me that we weren't really doing the right thing," Alex said.
Alex described the moment as "a red flag."
"I mean, the web page that I found [details about Meyer] on had Bigfoot and other very pseudo-scientific things on there," Alex said.
In promotional materials and patents, Joi Scientific has claimed to have found an efficient way to generate hydrogen from seawater, something that would be a major scientific breakthrough. (Joi Scientific)
Back in the spring, both Kennedy and Thomas talked about developing a prototype that could demonstrate the technology in New Brunswick. It was originally planned for 2018 and then pushed back to 2020, at the earliest.
We'd like to be in a position, within a year or 18 months, to demonstrate to the skeptics that this can work," Thomas said in May.
But Alex believes this was never realistic because "it was never a real proven mechanism to begin with."
'We're not interested'
For weeks, CBC News called and emailed Joi Scientific and its executives, trying to reach someone to ask questions about the status of the company and its technology, but those requests were not successful.
The menu that used to play when you called the company's phone line — 209-PURE-JOI — disappeared.
An employee with the public relations agency that previously helped set up an interview with Kennedy said in a September email that "we no longer have any engagement with Joi Scientific."
But a spokesperson for NB Power said the company was still "operational."
So CBC News travelled to Florida to try to speak to Joi Scientific executives.
A reporter asked to speak to someone from Joi Scientific at the company's Merritt Island headquarters, tucked into the Space Life Sciences Lab in an area locals call the Space Coast.
Joi Scientific chief financial officer Kurt Frahn came out to meet the reporter. But he refused to answer any questions about the state of the technology, saying the company is private and doesn't speak to the media.
A reporter asked to speak with Joi Scientific CEO Traver Kennedy at his Miami Beach condo building. Through his concierge, Kennedy said, 'We're not interested.' (Karissa Donkin/CBC)
CBC News also went to Kennedy's Miami Beach condo building to ask to speak with him. Through his concierge, Kennedy said, "We're not interested."
In an email later that day, Joi Scientific's vice-president of marketing, Vicky Harris, said the company wouldn't be available for interviews.
"As for our status, we are continuing to work on our seawater-based hydrogen technology in co-operation with our licensees, including NB Power," Harris wrote in an email.
Asked again on Wednesday for an interview, Harris wrote, "We are unable to discuss our technology due to non-disclosure agreements."
The NB Power lab
With the future of the company and its technology in doubt, Alex said Joi Scientific has cut down on staffing and lab space.
Records obtained by CBC News through access to information show NB Power opened its own lab in Florida to work with Joi Scientific. The utility spent more than $74,000 on costs associated with the lab between Jan. 1, 2018, and May 15, 2019.
It's not clear whether NB Power is still operating a lab in Florida.
In May, the utility's chief financial officer, Darren Murphy, told the Energy and Utilities Board that the $13 million licensing fee was "a small amount" compared to NB Power's costs if it didn't find an alternative fuel source for its Belledune generating station. The federal government's climate plan requires Belledune to phase out coal by 2030.
Murphy told the EUB the utility recognizes that such spending "will not always turn out with a positive outcome, and there will be some need to invest some amount of money that ultimately may not pan out." He also told the EUB he couldn't say whether Joi was financially viable.
Energy and Resource Development Minister Mike Holland learned about issues with Joi Scientific's technology from CBC News's reporting.
He said he'd received briefings from NB Power about Joi Scientific, but that was not part of it. He said he's looking for more information from NB Power.
"I don't feel the need to enter into any kind of knee-jerk reaction," Holland told reporters on Thursday.
"Money that's spent is money that's spent. I'm looking at where we're going from here, and I am not interested in talking about any projects that aren't going to deliver results."
Not well understood
Alex said he believes that hydrogen "attracts a lot of the muddying between what's real science and what isn't" because most people don't understand how it works.
"Because people don't have that level of technical understanding, they don't have those levels of scientific background, it makes it easy to kind of talk around the subject or navigate through the subject with scientific-sounding terminology, scientific-sounding explanations that don't really pan out."
Alex decided to speak out for NB Power ratepayers.
"I think people have the right to know where, how their money's being spent."
Information Morning - Fredericton
Joi Scientific test results 'disappointing'
Our
investigative unit has been looking into Joi Scientific, the Florida
start-up that NB Power has licensed secret technology from. CBC's
Karissa Donkin has an update on the company, and the technology. 9:07
450 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Raymond Amos
Here is a little Deja Vu for Higgy et al and NB Power's lawyers in particular
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-florida-start-up-1.5037917
Methinks it ain't Rocket Science to Google my name and Joi Scientific in order to see the entire email and who else got it N'esy Pas?
1 Mar 2019 13:11:05 -0400
Subject: Re Joi Scientific, David Coon and NB Power We just talked
Correct Ms Harris?
David Raymond Amos
Methinks Minister Mikey Holland's ears are burning right now or my name ain't "Just Dave" Anyone can Google "Harper and Bankers" if they don't get my jokes about the circus in Fredericton and Ottawa N'esy Pas?
David Peters
Full scale, public audit of NB Power.
David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David
Peters: Need I say that I have been screaming that for years because
everybody knows that theKPMG audits of NB Power are Pure D BS N'es Pas?
Anyone can read all the documents and the transcripts from the Public records of the EUB
Here is a little of what was said during a PUBLIC Hearing eactly 2 years ago today
New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board
Commission de L'Energie et des Services Publics N.-B.
PARTICIPANTS - Matter 375
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation for approval of the schedules of the rates for the fiscal year commencing April 1, 2018.
held at the Delta Hotel Saint John, New Brunswick, on October 31, 2017.
MS. DESMOND: Good morning, Mr. Chair. Ellen Desmond and from Board Staff, John Lawton.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Desmond. So today's pre-hearing conference will deal with the normal issues that we deal with at pre-hearing conferences, generally is the hearing schedule and process. But as well we have requests for intervenor status from eight different entities and we have an objection to one of those requests for intervenor status and that is the status of Mr. Amos. So I think that before we get into the schedule, I think it would be useful to go through the requests for intervenor status. I am just going to wait here a moment.
David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued All right, i guess the sound system has been fixed. So we are on the request for intervenor status. The Public Intervenor of course is deemed to be a party pursuant to Section 49.3 of the EUB Act. And then we have requests for intervenor status from David Amos, Enbridge Gas New Brunswick, Gerald Bourque, J.D. Irving, Limited, New Clear Free Solutions, Roger Richard, Sussex Sharing Club and Utilities Municipal. And as I had indicated, the Board received a written objection to the intervention of Mr. Amos.
So, Mr. Furey, do you have any issue with any of the other registered participants today?
MR. FUREY: No, we don't, Mr. Chair, and the only additional comment I would make around that is that we recognize that not every proposed intervenor has necessarily complied perfectly with the provisions of Rule 3.2.4, but those that have not that we don't object to, we have a general understanding already of the issues that they would bring to the proceeding.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you. The Board has in fact reviewed the requests that we have received for intervenor status. One of the -- one of the issues that you raise with respect to Mr. Amos is that he has not indicated in his form -- in his registration form the reason for his intervention. And in reviewing them, I note that the only other form where I see that is the form filled out by Mr. Bourque. So at this stage I just want -- Mr. Bourque perhaps -- you know, you may not have understood that on these intervenor requests that it's intended that you would indicate why you want intervenor status, what issues you would be raising at the hearing. Would you be able to provide that information at this time? I appreciate it's not on your form.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
MR. BOURQUE: Well I'm not very versed in all these procedures and I was coming to learn what was going on, and I was -- if there is issues that come up that I don't agree with, I certainly will speak on it, but I don't have anything prepared ahead of time.
CHAIRMAN: So are you a customer of NB Power and what rate class -- if so, what rate class would you, you know, purport to represent at this hearing?
MR. BOURQUE: I'm a customer of NB Power and I'm just a resident and -- yes.
CHAIRMAN: So is your intervention with respect to residential customers or is it broader than that?
MR. BOURQUE: I'm basically representing myself and -- yes.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
MR. BOURQUE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN: So, Mr. Amos, before we get into the discussion with respect to your status as intervenor, because there has been an objection filed, again your intervenor request does not set out the reasons for your request to be an intervenor. So just like I have put those questions to Mr. Bourque, could you perhaps just expand upon the rate class that perhaps you are a customer in and what perspective you would bring to this hearing?
MR. BOURQUE: Well I'm not very versed in all these procedures and I was coming to learn what was going on, and I was -- if there is issues that come up that I don't agree with, I certainly will speak on it, but I don't have anything prepared ahead of time.
CHAIRMAN: So are you a customer of NB Power and what rate class -- if so, what rate class would you, you know, purport to represent at this hearing?
MR. BOURQUE: I'm a customer of NB Power and I'm just a resident and -- yes.
CHAIRMAN: So is your intervention with respect to residential customers or is it broader than that?
MR. BOURQUE: I'm basically representing myself and -- yes.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
MR. BOURQUE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN: So, Mr. Amos, before we get into the discussion with respect to your status as intervenor, because there has been an objection filed, again your intervenor request does not set out the reasons for your request to be an intervenor. So just like I have put those questions to Mr. Bourque, could you perhaps just expand upon the rate class that perhaps you are a customer in and what perspective you would bring to this hearing?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
MR. AMOS: Mr. Gorman, I just became aware of this motion as I entered this room. I'm just starting to read it now. I request time to study it before I argue it. With that said, as I said in the last hearing, residential class ratepayer, the reason I'm intervening in this matter is because of my two friends here. Both have concerns with these rate increases. My friend Roger in particular has to do with the smart meters and Gerald with the expenses and the debts incurred by NB Power. Both of these fellows are not familiar with how court processes work and they asked me to help them with this matter. I was done with you -- 357 and preparing to sue you, sir. I said I will help them intervene because of his concerns about smart meters, his concerns about the debts involving site meters and other things, and my concerns about the severe lack of ethics of all the officers of the court in this room. Mr. Furey is familiar with me when he worked for the attorney General.
Now in the last hearing that I was at I was invited to a meeting in a boardroom of Stewart McKelvey, the very people that appear to have filed this motion, saying I don't know my business. At this meeting I wasn't allowed to share what was said, although all the intervenors, including Hugh Segal's associate, listened in --
MR. AMOS: Mr. Gorman, I just became aware of this motion as I entered this room. I'm just starting to read it now. I request time to study it before I argue it. With that said, as I said in the last hearing, residential class ratepayer, the reason I'm intervening in this matter is because of my two friends here. Both have concerns with these rate increases. My friend Roger in particular has to do with the smart meters and Gerald with the expenses and the debts incurred by NB Power. Both of these fellows are not familiar with how court processes work and they asked me to help them with this matter. I was done with you -- 357 and preparing to sue you, sir. I said I will help them intervene because of his concerns about smart meters, his concerns about the debts involving site meters and other things, and my concerns about the severe lack of ethics of all the officers of the court in this room. Mr. Furey is familiar with me when he worked for the attorney General.
Now in the last hearing that I was at I was invited to a meeting in a boardroom of Stewart McKelvey, the very people that appear to have filed this motion, saying I don't know my business. At this meeting I wasn't allowed to share what was said, although all the intervenors, including Hugh Segal's associate, listened in --
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, if I could just interrupt for a moment --
MR. AMOS: It has to do with ratepayers --
CHAIRMAN: No, no. Excuse me, please.
MR. AMOS: -- and site --
CHAIRMAN: Please, Mr. Amos --
MR. AMOS: Your question is site meters, sir.
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, could you just hold back your remarks for a moment.
MR. AMOS: I'm reading this motion. I'm much offended.
CHAIRMAN: Look, before we get to the motion, all I have asked you is for you --
MR. AMOS: Site meters, sir.
CHAIRMAN: Sorry?
MR. AMOS: Site meters. $122 million and then the write-off of the existing meters. I believe that's in the mandate of this, correct?
CHAIRMAN: Okay. So you are saying that you are intending to intervene in this proceeding because of the --
MR. AMOS: I'm watching you, sir. You are at the end of your term February 1st. Jack Keir appointed you ten years ago February 1st. I wonder --
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, I'm --
MR. AMOS: -- who the next Chair is going to be.
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, could you try to stay on topic here. The question --
MR. AMOS: I'm checking your integrity in helping my friends with their concerns about the expenses of NB Power in site meters.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. So, Mr. Amos, are you telling me that your intervention would be around the advanced meter infrastructure? Is that the reason that you want to intervene?
MR. AMOS: And the rate increase in and of itself is unnecessary.
CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MR. AMOS: I have many reasons --
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Could I -
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, if I could just interrupt for a moment --
MR. AMOS: It has to do with ratepayers --
CHAIRMAN: No, no. Excuse me, please.
MR. AMOS: -- and site --
CHAIRMAN: Please, Mr. Amos --
MR. AMOS: Your question is site meters, sir.
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, could you just hold back your remarks for a moment.
MR. AMOS: I'm reading this motion. I'm much offended.
CHAIRMAN: Look, before we get to the motion, all I have asked you is for you --
MR. AMOS: Site meters, sir.
CHAIRMAN: Sorry?
MR. AMOS: Site meters. $122 million and then the write-off of the existing meters. I believe that's in the mandate of this, correct?
CHAIRMAN: Okay. So you are saying that you are intending to intervene in this proceeding because of the --
MR. AMOS: I'm watching you, sir. You are at the end of your term February 1st. Jack Keir appointed you ten years ago February 1st. I wonder --
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, I'm --
MR. AMOS: -- who the next Chair is going to be.
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, could you try to stay on topic here. The question --
MR. AMOS: I'm checking your integrity in helping my friends with their concerns about the expenses of NB Power in site meters.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. So, Mr. Amos, are you telling me that your intervention would be around the advanced meter infrastructure? Is that the reason that you want to intervene?
MR. AMOS: And the rate increase in and of itself is unnecessary.
CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MR. AMOS: I have many reasons --
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Could I -
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
MR. AMOS: -- but I think it's a matter for another court after reading this motion. They mentioned the Federal Court of Appeal. You must be aware of me in the Federal Court, right?
CHAIRMAN: Sir, that's the matter --
MR. AMOS: Have you read this motion?
CHAIRMAN: -- that we are now discussing. Sir, that's not what we are talking about right now.
MR. AMOS: Well that's what I'm talking about.
CHAIRMAN: I want to know the reason for your intervention and you have said --
MR. AMOS: Site meters and this rate increase and the write down of the current meters.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. So you have indicated that you are here because you want to assist --
MR. AMOS: Are you double-talking? That's exactly what I said. It's on the record. I'm here because I take offence to the deal with -- what is it, Siemens -- for 122 million and then the cost of installing these meters so that the ratepayers will have to pay more during certain times of the day when they use a dryer when Mr. Furey decides it's not proper.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. So --
MR. AMOS: He forgets who owns NB Power. We do. You too. We are the ratepayers. As I said in the last hearing, you should protect your own interest, Mr. Gorman.
CHAIRMAN: So, Mr. Amos, we are going to set aside the issue of whether or not you will be an intervenor to give you an opportunity to read that material. I understand that it would have been served electronically on all parties, at least that's the rule. Mr. Furey, can you --
MR. AMOS: -- but I think it's a matter for another court after reading this motion. They mentioned the Federal Court of Appeal. You must be aware of me in the Federal Court, right?
CHAIRMAN: Sir, that's the matter --
MR. AMOS: Have you read this motion?
CHAIRMAN: -- that we are now discussing. Sir, that's not what we are talking about right now.
MR. AMOS: Well that's what I'm talking about.
CHAIRMAN: I want to know the reason for your intervention and you have said --
MR. AMOS: Site meters and this rate increase and the write down of the current meters.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. So you have indicated that you are here because you want to assist --
MR. AMOS: Are you double-talking? That's exactly what I said. It's on the record. I'm here because I take offence to the deal with -- what is it, Siemens -- for 122 million and then the cost of installing these meters so that the ratepayers will have to pay more during certain times of the day when they use a dryer when Mr. Furey decides it's not proper.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. So --
MR. AMOS: He forgets who owns NB Power. We do. You too. We are the ratepayers. As I said in the last hearing, you should protect your own interest, Mr. Gorman.
CHAIRMAN: So, Mr. Amos, we are going to set aside the issue of whether or not you will be an intervenor to give you an opportunity to read that material. I understand that it would have been served electronically on all parties, at least that's the rule. Mr. Furey, can you --
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
MR. AMOS: I never saw it until this morning.
CHAIRMAN: Can you confirm that it would have been sent to an email address provided by Mr. Amos?
MR. FUREY: That's correct, Mr. Chair. It was sent yesterday morning to the distribution list in this proceeding including Mr. Amos' email that he had provided.
CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MR. AMOS: I need to remind Mr. Furey that he used to work for the Attorney General when I served NB Power in 2006. He and I spoke personally in 2005.
CHAIRMAN: So, Mr. Amos, we are not going to hear that immediately. The documentation -- I think most of it is documentation that you previously filed, so I'm assuming that you are --
MR. AMOS: I'm glad to argue every single word that I filed in 357.
CHAIRMAN: So I'm assuming that you are familiar with that. It's the --
MR. AMOS: I'm very familiar with every word that I filed.
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, if I gave you 20 minutes to read that, is that enough time?
MR. AMOS: 20 minutes? Could you argue that document in 20 minutes? Let me take 20 minutes to study it but I don't know what you guys are talking about in the meantime I should pay attention to.
CHAIRMAN: So I think what we will do is we will set that aside for a moment and we will move on to scheduling and we will come back to that.
MR. AMOS: Because I want to pay attention to every word you are saying this morning.
MR. AMOS: I never saw it until this morning.
CHAIRMAN: Can you confirm that it would have been sent to an email address provided by Mr. Amos?
MR. FUREY: That's correct, Mr. Chair. It was sent yesterday morning to the distribution list in this proceeding including Mr. Amos' email that he had provided.
CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MR. AMOS: I need to remind Mr. Furey that he used to work for the Attorney General when I served NB Power in 2006. He and I spoke personally in 2005.
CHAIRMAN: So, Mr. Amos, we are not going to hear that immediately. The documentation -- I think most of it is documentation that you previously filed, so I'm assuming that you are --
MR. AMOS: I'm glad to argue every single word that I filed in 357.
CHAIRMAN: So I'm assuming that you are familiar with that. It's the --
MR. AMOS: I'm very familiar with every word that I filed.
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, if I gave you 20 minutes to read that, is that enough time?
MR. AMOS: 20 minutes? Could you argue that document in 20 minutes? Let me take 20 minutes to study it but I don't know what you guys are talking about in the meantime I should pay attention to.
CHAIRMAN: So I think what we will do is we will set that aside for a moment and we will move on to scheduling and we will come back to that.
MR. AMOS: Because I want to pay attention to every word you are saying this morning.
David Raymond Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos, we are going to set this issue aside for now, then we are going to have a break and I'm going to give you an opportunity to have a look at it. But my point is that the vast majority of the material that was filed was material that came from you. So I assume you are familiar with that part of it.
MR. AMOS: Let me back up. When I first introduced myself on a pre-hearing for 357, I was opposing a former public intervenor wanting to get on the gravy train again. I explained myself when I introduced myself at that, that every lawyer in the room should know who I was, including you. I sent you emails where I sent you emails ten years ago. That said, I know who I am. I was there to oppose a former public intervenor wanting to get paid by his own assistant. I opposed that. I can speak on my behalf, Gerald can speak on his behalf, Roger can speak on his behalf. Why should anybody be paid?
After that I was invited by NB Power, Mr. Furey, to a secret meeting to discuss this. They wanted to pick my brains to see what my issues were. And we couldn't disclose what was said in the room.
I clearly stated what my issues were, conflict of interest by law firms. Good example. The people that filed this motion today, JDI, Stewart McKelvey, are also employed by NB Power to litigate to collect for Lepreau. That's conflict of interest. And then we have McInnes and Cooper and then we have and then we have and then we have.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Continued
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos --
MR. AMOS: So I asked all these questions in confidence. They said it's a matter for the hearing. So then we go to have a hearing and you cancel the hearing so I can't ask the questions. I said fine, we will see you in another court. Then my friends asked me for my assistance over this rate increase and site meters in particular and the rate increase in general. I said fine, I will let you guys do the talking and I will advise you because you are not familiar. Any time that I decide to speak I will because I have a right to. But since you people want to attack me, I'm all for it, but I need to study what you are up to first.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Amos, I'm going to cut you off there. So on the request for intervenor status we are going to grant intervenor status to Enbridge Gas New Brunswick, Gerald Bourque, J.D. Irving, Limited, New Clear Free Solutions, Roger Richard, Sussex Sharing Club and Utilities Municipal were the PIs already indicated as deemed to be a party pursuant to Section 49.3 of the EUB Act. And, Mr. Amos, we will set aside your request to be an intervenor until we have dealt with other matters and we will come back to that a little bit later and I will give you an opportunity to review the material that you would not be familiar with.
MR. AMOS: I thank you for that.
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amos --
MR. AMOS: So I asked all these questions in confidence. They said it's a matter for the hearing. So then we go to have a hearing and you cancel the hearing so I can't ask the questions. I said fine, we will see you in another court. Then my friends asked me for my assistance over this rate increase and site meters in particular and the rate increase in general. I said fine, I will let you guys do the talking and I will advise you because you are not familiar. Any time that I decide to speak I will because I have a right to. But since you people want to attack me, I'm all for it, but I need to study what you are up to first.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Amos, I'm going to cut you off there. So on the request for intervenor status we are going to grant intervenor status to Enbridge Gas New Brunswick, Gerald Bourque, J.D. Irving, Limited, New Clear Free Solutions, Roger Richard, Sussex Sharing Club and Utilities Municipal were the PIs already indicated as deemed to be a party pursuant to Section 49.3 of the EUB Act. And, Mr. Amos, we will set aside your request to be an intervenor until we have dealt with other matters and we will come back to that a little bit later and I will give you an opportunity to review the material that you would not be familiar with.
MR. AMOS: I thank you for that.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @David Peters: Its truly amazing that the people who work for us would block portions of a Public Record
Chuck Michaels
Can we PLEASE kill the coming debacle of the Smart Meters now....? PLEASE?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Chuck
Michaels: Methinks everybody knows that I have been screaming about that
nonsense before the current EUB matter about smart meters began N'esy
Pas?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meter-application-eub-1.5156867
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meter-application-eub-1.5156867
Chuck Michaels
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: peut-être - mais leur plan se terminera par un désastre
Thomas Georges
At the time of investment:
Gaetan sat on Joi's board of directors.
Gaetan was/is also the CEO of NBPower.
Gaetan sold NB taxpayers magic beans and moved $13million from his right hand into his left hand and right into his pocket.
How is this not conflict of interest and/or illegal???
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Thomas Georges: Both
Ray Bungay
Sounds like NBPower customers were scammed by this American Company. Maybe the Provincial Government should deduct those loses from any bonus monies that would be given to Thomas when he retires!
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ray Bungay: Dream on
Roy Kirk
Doesn't work, but gave Gaeten the chance to spend paid time in Florida without taking vacation days. So overall a win in NB power and govt terms. ;-(
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Roy Kirk:
Methinks it was just another one of those things that the overpaid NB
Power dudes do for our benefit that we fail to appreciate N'esy Pas?
Anders Jamers
Not interested in speaking to reporters / Very interested in taking $13m from New Brunswickers.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Anders
Jamers: Methinks both Higgy and Thomas love to talk to their fellow SANB
supporter Chucky Leblanc Perhaps CBC or Higgy should send in that clown
to talk to Thomas Now that would be a circus to enjoy N'esy Pas?
Al Clark
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: I've got the impression lately that chucky is cor now.
Helen Gorne
Telephone conversation earlier today....
Question: "What should I do ?"
Answer : "It's Halloween, just dress up in some fancy costume, by next week all will be forgotten"
Question: "You think that will work ? I could be on the hook for deception"
Answer " "No worries, it worked for me !!"
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Helen Gorne:
Methinks maybe Higgy the current ringmaster of the ongoing circus in
Fat Fred City should have laughed at the news and liberal appointed EUB
Commissioners. He should have told Mikey Holland to send in the clowns
at NB Power who supported this nonsense and still want 100 million for
smart meters as well If Higgy were clever enough to do the right thing
and say the right words before the Speech From The Throne then the PANB
and or the Greens would have to support him or have the writ dropped and
allow us to duly register our indignation towards them all N'esy Pas?
Charles Mitz
A comment regarding some of the posts here. This situation is different than a failed avenue of R&D...the idea that you can derive unlimited energy within a closed system is not possible and has been proven to be impossible for well over a century now.
Helen Gorne
Reply to @Charles Mitz: . but it has proved that one can derive unlimited money from a closed system.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Helen Gorne: Well put
Charles Mitz
Thomas needs to resign. The company's claims violated the second law and were patently impossible as anyone with an undergraduate-level knowledge of physics would have known. As the CEO of NB Power with numerous scientists and engineers amongst its employees, this kind of mistake is inexcusable.
Rosco Holt
Reply to @Charles Mitz:
Didn't Thomas announce his retirement not so long ago?
Didn't Thomas announce his retirement not so long ago?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Rosco holt: YUP
Trevis L. Kingston
P.T. Barnum said it most clearly: " There's a sucker born every minute."
People who gamble away others money... are jailed.
Yet politicians always seem to hold a "Get out of jail... free" card.
Time to remove those cards from the deck...
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Trevis L.
Kingston: P. T. Barnum never said that Why would a wise man insult his
customers? Some say that he did say "People want to see a circus so you
give them a circus" Methinks Higgy and Holland et all follow that
reasoning as they continue to support NB Power wanting to borrow a 100
million bucks for not so smart meters N'esy Pas?
Johnny Horton
Reply to @David Raymond Amos:
Clearly you Never shopped at Mazuccas eh?
Clearly you Never shopped at Mazuccas eh?
Johnny Horton
Why does everyone always blame Thomas. He’s just a politically hired monkey,
Ronald Parker
Reply to @Johnny Horton: I blame him and all the monkeys.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Ronald Parker:
Never blame a bad employeee. Blame the person that hired them.
Never blame a bad employeee. Blame the person that hired them.
Ronald Parker
Reply to @Johnny Horton: Do you run a business? I say blame both.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Ronald Parker:
Yes I have, the buck stopped at me. Any problems were ultimately my fault. A bad hire. Bad training. Lack of oversight. All my fault and not the employees..
Yes I have, the buck stopped at me. Any problems were ultimately my fault. A bad hire. Bad training. Lack of oversight. All my fault and not the employees..
Ronald Parker
Reply to @Johnny
Horton: I also currently run a business for the past 29 years and have
hired good people that I fired because of what they did, not me. When
someone like Thomas gets paid big money you would expect HIM to know
better. If someone stole from your business is that your fault?
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Ronald Parker:
If they needed to be fired, then, no, they were not good people, and you didn’t do your job.
If they needed to be fired, then, no, they were not good people, and you didn’t do your job.
Ronald Parker
Reply to @Johnny Horton: Have a good day.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ronald Parker: You are wise to dismiss him
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Ronald Parker:
If I have a problem st your business, I’m going to go to you the owner and get it resolved. It was you thst owns and runs and dictates the business and what is done in it.
And you would do the same thing, because as an owner you know, employees rarely if ever have the authority to fix or change anything.
If I have a problem st your business, I’m going to go to you the owner and get it resolved. It was you thst owns and runs and dictates the business and what is done in it.
And you would do the same thing, because as an owner you know, employees rarely if ever have the authority to fix or change anything.
Ronald Parker
Reply to @Johnny Horton: Yeah OK.
Johnny Horton
They said Columbus, the Wright brothers and Einstein were all crazy and it couldn’t be done.
Ben Haroldson
Reply to @Johnny Horton: So GT is a genius.......right.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Ben Haroldson:
GT is just a cheque book. He’s not the inventors and scientists out there sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing at changing the world. Humanity has made many stupid failures sl8ng the way. The successes wouldn’t be possible otherwise.
GT is just a cheque book. He’s not the inventors and scientists out there sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing at changing the world. Humanity has made many stupid failures sl8ng the way. The successes wouldn’t be possible otherwise.
Ronald Parker
Reply to @Johnny Horton: The guy with the cheque should know better.
Ben Haroldson
Reply to @Johnny Horton: Successes? which ones?
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Ronald Parker:
Well that was the liberal premiere at the time who funded all this. course $13m is actually quite a cheap liberal blunder. 50m ATCON. 100m francophone gsmes.
Well that was the liberal premiere at the time who funded all this. course $13m is actually quite a cheap liberal blunder. 50m ATCON. 100m francophone gsmes.
Ronald Parker
Reply to @Johnny Horton: I get it John you blame the liberals, I blame all at the top.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Ben Haroldson:
Well it took a few attempts but we did racy the moon , and Columbus did finally find the new world after others were lost.
Well it took a few attempts but we did racy the moon , and Columbus did finally find the new world after others were lost.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ronald Parker: I see that the spin doctor lured you back
Ronald Parker
Reply to @David Raymond Amos: Yes I fell for it
Ronald Parker
Reply to @Ronald Parker:
No I blame everyone involved. However I believe only the leader is responsible and should pay the price for failures.
No I blame everyone involved. However I believe only the leader is responsible and should pay the price for failures.
Vernon A McPhee
Reply to @Johnny
Horton: Yeah but Columbus was trying to get to India/China/Japan and it
was just dumb luck that the unknown continents of North and South
America happened to be within reach of his ships. It was well known that
the Earth was round but Columbus mistakenly calculated the distance to
the "Indies" to be much shorter. Rather ironic that you bring him up as a
shining example.
Charles Mitz
Reply to @Johnny Horton: Actually "they" did not. Einstein won a Nobel and the brilliance of his work was widely recognized. The Wright's worked largely in secret and people knew that powered flight was possible if you could get a enough power in a light package. What this article is describing is a form of perpetual motion machine and 100% scam
Johnny Horton
I can just picture sll these posters here back in Columbus Day, OMG no Chris,you’ll fall off the edge of the world. You won’t get a cent of our gold!
Helen Gorne
Reply to @Johnny
Horton: Did you miss or care to ignore this bit. Quote "a turning
point came when reading the company's patents. Alex noticed some of the
patents cited Stanley Meyer, a discredited U.S. inventor who claimed to
have come up with a car powered on water." Of course there is Hydrogen
in water, that is why it is H2O, this world cannot get away from the
fact that the energy required to extract it far exceeds the reward.
Look on it as you heating your house with wood you have carried from
the forests of B.C. The energy expended far exceeds the energy
generated by the said pieces of wood.
Ian Scott
Reply to @Helen Gorne: If he's (Horton) on the board he should be gone too.
Johnny
Horton
Reply to @Helen Gorne:
I never said joi wasn’t some hair brained scheme. I’m simply saying we need to take risks and try. And if everyone says nimby and not my money, we will never advance,
I never said joi wasn’t some hair brained scheme. I’m simply saying we need to take risks and try. And if everyone says nimby and not my money, we will never advance,
Helen Gorne
Reply to @Johnny
Horton: There are risks. calculated risks and then there is NB, who are
either very unlucky in their choice of investments or have people in
positions of responsibility who are very naive.
Johnny
Horton
Reply to @Helen Gorne:
I think everywhere mskes dumb mistakes. Being in no we of course focus on no errors,
I think everywhere mskes dumb mistakes. Being in no we of course focus on no errors,
Chris Bacon
Reply to @Johnny Horton: speaking of dumb mistakes....HUH?
Helen Gorne
Reply to @Johnny Horton: Having dyslexic keyboards doesn;t help the cause.
Michel
Forgeron
Reply to @Johnny
Horton: The richest companies in the world all started with private
investor $, they understood the chances they took but took them anyway,
and it paid off for them. E.g. - Microsoft, Apple, Amazon. As far as I
know, no taxpayer money was used, at least in their beginnings. It is
unfair for government owned or controlled entities to use OUR money to
take such chances, especially on schemes that are highly questionable
like this one. There are incompetents in both NBPower and our provincial
government.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Ian Scott:
Methinks many would agree that he is just a garden variety noname spin
doctor for the "Powers That Be" in NB N'esy Pas?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Michel
Forgeron: Methinks you were not too surprised to see that our little
spit and chew about the reasons why I don't have a Medicare Card went
"Poof" N'esy Pas?
Shawn McShane
Gaëtan Thomas was listed as a Director with Joi Scientific. An investigation is needed.
Isn't that a conflict of interest?
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Shawn McShane: YUP
David Raymond Amos
Surprise Surprise Surprise
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Raymond Amos:
No surprise, other than NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas needing a new pair of glasses (because he claims to have actually seen this working), nothing new in NB, the rich get richer, and the poor just a little bit poorer.
No surprise, other than NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas needing a new pair of glasses (because he claims to have actually seen this working), nothing new in NB, the rich get richer, and the poor just a little bit poorer.
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Raymond Amos:
What do you figure? Link this up with the Liberal government of the time, mention again we are throwing a few million up north to improve ports, and the stage is set for an election.
What do you figure? Link this up with the Liberal government of the time, mention again we are throwing a few million up north to improve ports, and the stage is set for an election.
David Raymond Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Please enjoy a little Deja Vu
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meter-application-eub-1.5156867
https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 48 others
Methinks Minister Mikey Holland's ears are burning right now or my name ain't "Just Dave" Anyone can Google "Harper and Bankers" if they don't get my jokes about the circus in Fredericton and Ottawa N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/05/nb-power-reviving-vexed-smart-meter.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meter-application-eub-1.5156867
NB Power reviving vexed smart meter plan less than a year after EUB rejection
64 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Amos
Surprise Surprise Surprise
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
Methinks it was rather obvious that although NB Power and their EUB
buddies ignored the concerns of my friend Roger Richard and I, they did
not ignore the Irving Clan' wishes N'esy Pas?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/eub-smart-meters-final-1.4554570
Originally, NB Power produced figures showing the acquisition of smart meters would cost it $122.7 million but generate benefits of only $121.4 million, an overall loss on the investment..
Tuesday, Furey revised those numbers significantly, recasting the project as a clear financial winner.
"There is this additional evidence NB Power has not identified all available benefits," he said.
"NB Power believes that the present value of potential benefits can now be stated to be $154 million."
Furey also took time to reject concerns that smart meters emit an unsafe level of radio frequency emissions.
"It would take years, years, years of exposure to an rf meter to equate to the rf exposure that a person would get from a 10-minute phone call on a cellphone," he said.
Closing arguments on the smart meter plan as well as NB Power's energy-efficiency proposals continue Wednesday morning.
Up first is J.D. Irving Ltd. lawyer Christopher Stewart, who already signalled he was unmoved by Furey's presentation and will be opposing the smart meter purchase.
"We submit that the application for the AMI [smart meter] program be denied," said Stewart shortly before the hearing was adjourned for the day.
"There is not sufficient evidence in the record to allow us, and more importantly you, to draw any other conclusion."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/eub-smart-meters-final-1.4554570
Originally, NB Power produced figures showing the acquisition of smart meters would cost it $122.7 million but generate benefits of only $121.4 million, an overall loss on the investment..
Tuesday, Furey revised those numbers significantly, recasting the project as a clear financial winner.
"There is this additional evidence NB Power has not identified all available benefits," he said.
"NB Power believes that the present value of potential benefits can now be stated to be $154 million."
Furey also took time to reject concerns that smart meters emit an unsafe level of radio frequency emissions.
"It would take years, years, years of exposure to an rf meter to equate to the rf exposure that a person would get from a 10-minute phone call on a cellphone," he said.
Closing arguments on the smart meter plan as well as NB Power's energy-efficiency proposals continue Wednesday morning.
Up first is J.D. Irving Ltd. lawyer Christopher Stewart, who already signalled he was unmoved by Furey's presentation and will be opposing the smart meter purchase.
"We submit that the application for the AMI [smart meter] program be denied," said Stewart shortly before the hearing was adjourned for the day.
"There is not sufficient evidence in the record to allow us, and more importantly you, to draw any other conclusion."
David Amos
Methinks the EUB agrees with me in that the 357 Matter should be settled firsst before NB Power makes another stab and getting Smart Matters N'esy Pas?
These documents can be sourced from the records of the 375 Matter Day 1 of the very long hearing was 02/07/2018
http://www.nbeub.ca/opt/M/browserecord.php?-action=browse&-recid=560
02/09/2018 Hearing - Day 3
Page 601
VICE-CHAIRMAN: I was a bit surprised when I heard this morning and
yesterday that you are entering into a contract at the end of February
and is that with respect to the purchase of the smart meters?
MS. CLARK: That's correct.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So how can you enter into a contract without the
firm approval of this Board, if we are going to approve or not the
AMI? How prudent is that?
MS. CLARK: So we are at the end stages of the contract in terms of
just the final terms and conditions, but we have been very clear that
we -- with the vendor -- and they recognize that, because we also have
Nova Scotia Power, who is part of our consortium, who also needs Board
approval. So should we not get -- this is conditional on EUB
approval. So should we not get EUB approval, the contract would not
proceed.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now there was discussion yesterday, I think it was
with Mr. Stoll regarding time of use and time based pricing, and so I
went through the evidence this morning, and in your main evidence, and
I think one of the objective of having the AMI going forward to a time
of use price structure -- rate structure. So am I understanding that
correctly?
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Continued
MS. CLARK: That is correct. And in the evidence, we did answer an
interrogatory on that and you will see that AMI is an enabler for time
varying rates in the Energy Smart NB Plan. And we did have time
varying rates included in our investment rationale. We took it out,
because we couldn't -- we couldn't pinpoint without more detail as to
what those time varying rates may be and the benefit of those, so we
took them out of the investment rationale at this point in time, but
certainly it's something that we are looking at in the future.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So the fundamental question here is that the Board
should heard -- or hear Matter 357 before approving the AMI? So if we
don't approve time of use, that basically what will happen with your
AMI, I mean it's -- if we don't approve the time of use, which we are
going to hear next year, how can we proceed in approving the AMI
before we look at the rate structure?
MS. CLARK: As we have talked about in our investment rationale,
there are a number of other benefits to both the customer and to the
utility over and above time varying rates that we believe are
important for the utility and for the movement forward of our Energy
Smart New Brunswick plan. Many of those benefits accrue to the
customer. And many of those benefits accrue to the utility and
ultimately the customer. So even if we were not to move in the
direction of time varying rates, we believe that the investment
rationale supports the AMI installation based on the other investment
-- or based on the other benefits that it provides.
MS. CLARK: That is correct. And in the evidence, we did answer an
interrogatory on that and you will see that AMI is an enabler for time
varying rates in the Energy Smart NB Plan. And we did have time
varying rates included in our investment rationale. We took it out,
because we couldn't -- we couldn't pinpoint without more detail as to
what those time varying rates may be and the benefit of those, so we
took them out of the investment rationale at this point in time, but
certainly it's something that we are looking at in the future.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: So the fundamental question here is that the Board
should heard -- or hear Matter 357 before approving the AMI? So if we
don't approve time of use, that basically what will happen with your
AMI, I mean it's -- if we don't approve the time of use, which we are
going to hear next year, how can we proceed in approving the AMI
before we look at the rate structure?
MS. CLARK: As we have talked about in our investment rationale,
there are a number of other benefits to both the customer and to the
utility over and above time varying rates that we believe are
important for the utility and for the movement forward of our Energy
Smart New Brunswick plan. Many of those benefits accrue to the
customer. And many of those benefits accrue to the utility and
ultimately the customer. So even if we were not to move in the
direction of time varying rates, we believe that the investment
rationale supports the AMI installation based on the other investment
-- or based on the other benefits that it provides.
Mark (Junkman) George
Content disabled
Screwed enough money out of us to gamble $13 million, and now looking for more?
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Mark (Junkman) George: Methinks you can't say that I didn't warn you N'esy Pas?
Reply to @Mark (Junkman) George: Methinks you can't say that I didn't warn you N'esy Pas?
Mark (Junkman) George
Like hogs feeding at the trough............
The EUB beats those hogs away from the trough, but they are right back trying suck up some more out of us.
David Amos
Reply to @Mark (Junkman) George: I see that you are back as well you after your first comment went "Poof"
Shawn McShane
Reply to @David Amos: What does this mean: Q. - And to make sure, the permission to deploy AMI has to go through Matter 357, is it true?
MR. CRONKHITE: No, I don’t believe that Matter 357 has a direct correlation, or requirement or prerequisite as it relates to AMI infrastructure.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Shawn McShane: Mr Cronkhite is a liar We having meetings with fancy Yankees about the 357 matter in short order
Mark (Junkman) George
Reply to @David Amos:
Some folks just simply experience the truth, around here, just a bit differently than others it seems. LOTS of things go "poof" around here, even in the body of the stories (I won't insult the news by calling this garbage news), especially the hard statistics when it sheds light on the government mismanagement. I was especially impressed when the Cannabis NB 10 year lease payments slipped out, magically to go "poof" within hours.
David Amos
Reply to @Mark (Junkman) George: FYI my reply to Shawn McShane went "Poof"
Alex Butt
Yet another way for Mr thomas to make more money for himself and his merry band! When will NB wake up and force the government to put an end to this insanity!
David Amos
Reply to @Alex Butt: Methinks Minister Mikey Holand has plans to his job on or about the 12th of NEVER N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David Amos: never, never et quart, pas diffarrence !
David Amos
Methinks Minister Mikey Holland's ears are burning right now or my name ain't "Just Dave" Anyone can Google "Harper and Bankers" if they don't get my joke about the circuses in Fat Fred City and Ottawa N'esy Pas?
Jonas Smith
I wouldn't trust NB Power to correctly cost out a grocery list, let alone believe them that they messed up the first time around.
David Amos
Reply to @Jonas
Smith: Me Too Furthermore they don't trust us We have to prepay a two
month estimate of our upcoming bills before they will even hook us up.
Methinks should be a small wonder why their lawyers have had me illegally barred from the rate increase hearing thus far N'esy Pas?
Methinks should be a small wonder why their lawyers have had me illegally barred from the rate increase hearing thus far N'esy Pas?
Allan J Whitney
They will not stop until NB Power has been sold at ten cents on the dollar to a syndicate of their pals. This will probably happen soon after the coming Gaetan Thomas investment disaster.
David Amos
Reply to @Allan J
Whitney: Methinks the Yankees in Emera or the Brits in National Grid
would buy NB Power in a heartbeat for KPMG's book value N'esy Pas?
John Valcourt
NB Power should not be allowed to put these in where New Brunswickers DONT WANT THEM. That corporation is owned by the government which means it is owned by tax payers and we should have the say. This is just another way for them to charge more than we can afford for the electricity that we need. There is no way this will save New Brunswickers money. Corporations like this don't try to save us money, they try to bleed every last cent out of us. It has to stop NOW.
David Amos
Reply to @John Valcourt: A little Deja Vu for you
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/eub-hearings-nb-power-smart-meters-1.4529640
Opting out smart meter program could cost NB Power customers
Power customers in British Columbia, Quebec have faced fees for refusing the installation of smart meters
Robert Jones · CBC News · Posted: Feb 10, 2018 8:00 AM AT
"NB Power customers who do not want a smart meter installed on their home could be facing a stiff fee for that decision, but so far the utility is not saying how much it might be.
"It will be based on the principles of cost causation, but we have not gotten into the detail of what that fee would be at this point," said NB Power Senior Vice President of Operations Lori Clark at Energy and Utilities Board hearings on Friday."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/eub-hearings-nb-power-smart-meters-1.4529640
Opting out smart meter program could cost NB Power customers
Power customers in British Columbia, Quebec have faced fees for refusing the installation of smart meters
Robert Jones · CBC News · Posted: Feb 10, 2018 8:00 AM AT
"NB Power customers who do not want a smart meter installed on their home could be facing a stiff fee for that decision, but so far the utility is not saying how much it might be.
"It will be based on the principles of cost causation, but we have not gotten into the detail of what that fee would be at this point," said NB Power Senior Vice President of Operations Lori Clark at Energy and Utilities Board hearings on Friday."
Richard Dunn
There have been more than enough reasons to terminate, or not renew, the contract of Gaetan Thomas. NB Power may have a future, but not under his leadership. Please make the necessary changes now.
David Amos
Reply to @Richard Dunn: Dream on
Shawn Tabor
If this is agreed upon, it will be proof in the pudding, that something is very wrong at the top.
David Amos
Reply to @Shawn Tabor: YUP
Trevis L. Kingston
NB Power doesn't need smarter meters... but smarter management and plans.
David Amos
Reply to @Trevis L. Kingston: Oh So True
Dave Ess
How are these idiots still in charge of the utility?
Their first application demonstrated that it would cost more than it would give.
Then they dump a pile of money into unproven scientific hype
Then they're entitled to do it all over again?
I might sound paranoid but I can't see how the new smart meter application won't just be a bunch of cooked numbers to show a "benefit" to the consumer but the reality will be increased rates and revenues to offset the the idiot decision to dump $13 million into cold fusion hype.
David Amos
Reply to @dave ess:
"Their first application demonstrated that it would cost more than it
would give. Then they dump a pile of money into unproven scientific hype
Then they're entitled to do it all over again?"
Methinks the record shows that the idiots signed a contract to buy a bunch of smart meters without having permission to do so N'ey Pas?
Then they're entitled to do it all over again?"
Methinks the record shows that the idiots signed a contract to buy a bunch of smart meters without having permission to do so N'ey Pas?
Danny Debdee
Reply to @dave ess: it’s not cold fusion. they didn’t put 13 million into it, they put 6.5 from a research and development fund, which is exactly what it is for and government matched the other 6.5
Danny Debdee
Reply to @David Amos:
me don’t think so, me thinks most likely these idiots are a lot more
informed about the pros and cons then yous, neyyyyy
Shawn McShane
Reply to @Danny
Debdee: Whether from NB Power or government it is $13 million of
taxpayer money that went to a company where CEO of NB Power is listed as
Director in SEC filings in the USA before he gave them the $13 million.
Roger Richard
« During hearings in February 2018, NB Power tried to amend its calculations to boost the benefits of adopting the technology while NB Power president GaëtanThomas gave interviews urging its approval. »
It is worrisome that KPMG is the auditor of NB Power... https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cra-kmpg-settlement-taxes-1.5154610?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar&fbclid=IwAR2ZnrhWe_JR6AmwAqt4VcO7BSDTnwmtQQVtZoTd30jtrbQzWQ27m0mBZPg
David Amos
Reply to @Roger Richard: I Concur Kind Sir
David Amos
Reply to @Roger Richard: Here is a little Deja Vu for you and the folks to enjoy
Matter 430
IN THE MATTER OF an application by New Brunswick Power Corporation for approval of the schedules of the rates for the fiscal year commencing April 1, 2019, and other relief as outlined in NB Power’s application
Held at the Algonquin Hotel, St. Andrews, N.B., on May 21st 2019.
Page253
Q. - So Mr. Murphy, just so we are clear then, this annual filing that you are envisioning as part of your DSM deferral account process would not involve a prudency review of those expenses per se, would not ever involve an application to change the ten year deferral period -- or ten year amortization period, excuse me. If those two matters were to become before the Board, it would not be part of this annual compliance filing?
MR. MURPHY: That is correct.
MR. STEWART: Thank you. Those are my questions for this panel, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Stewart.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Dr. Richard, avez-vous des questions pour ce panel ici?
DR. RICHARD: J’en aurai une.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Donc, si vous voulez, peut-être prendre --tu peux prendre la place de M. Stewart?
DR. RICHARD: Je vais parler en anglais
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Continued
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mais, écoutez, c’est votre -- si vous voulez parler en française vous avez l’opportunité à faire aussi. Si oui, si vous allez parler en français, peut-être juste me l’indiquer que les personnes peuvent s’aller chercher les écouteurs pis vous écoutez en arrière.
MR. MURPHY: So to that end, perhaps there aren’t any translation devices at the --
VICE-CHAIRMAN: I just asked him, Mr. Murphy. I am not sure if he is going to ask questions in English or in French so --
DR. RICHARD: I will speak English.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: English, okay.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY DR. RICHARD:
Q. - You have a document, Town of Shediac, Smart Grid Pilot Plan. How can I get that document?
MR. MURPHY: Could you direct me to the section of the evidence that you are referring to?
Q. - It is -- it would be in my question number -- I don’t remember the number. It is called Town of Shediac Smart Grid Pilot Plan. My question was --
CHAIRMAN: Excuse me, I think that might be Dr. Richard’s IR-5.
MR. FUREY: So Mr. Chair, while clearly I encourage the panel to respond to this question if they are able to, I do think that Ms. Langlais on Panel B is the witness who would be responsible for this type of documentation and perhaps Dr. Richard’s question would be better asked of Panel B.
CHAIRMAN: So Dr. Richard, Mr. Furey is indicating that the question you have asked, you know, would be better responded to by the next panel that will be up. Is that satisfactory to you to pose that question when Panel B is called?
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mais, écoutez, c’est votre -- si vous voulez parler en française vous avez l’opportunité à faire aussi. Si oui, si vous allez parler en français, peut-être juste me l’indiquer que les personnes peuvent s’aller chercher les écouteurs pis vous écoutez en arrière.
MR. MURPHY: So to that end, perhaps there aren’t any translation devices at the --
VICE-CHAIRMAN: I just asked him, Mr. Murphy. I am not sure if he is going to ask questions in English or in French so --
DR. RICHARD: I will speak English.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: English, okay.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY DR. RICHARD:
Q. - You have a document, Town of Shediac, Smart Grid Pilot Plan. How can I get that document?
MR. MURPHY: Could you direct me to the section of the evidence that you are referring to?
Q. - It is -- it would be in my question number -- I don’t remember the number. It is called Town of Shediac Smart Grid Pilot Plan. My question was --
CHAIRMAN: Excuse me, I think that might be Dr. Richard’s IR-5.
MR. FUREY: So Mr. Chair, while clearly I encourage the panel to respond to this question if they are able to, I do think that Ms. Langlais on Panel B is the witness who would be responsible for this type of documentation and perhaps Dr. Richard’s question would be better asked of Panel B.
CHAIRMAN: So Dr. Richard, Mr. Furey is indicating that the question you have asked, you know, would be better responded to by the next panel that will be up. Is that satisfactory to you to pose that question when Panel B is called?
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Continued May 22nd 2019.
Page 469
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Dr. Richard, avez-vous des questions pour cette panel?
DR. RICHARD: Oui j’en aurais une ou deux.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Est-ce que vous allez poser vos questions dans la langue Français ou dans la langue Anglais?
DR. RICHARD : En Anglais.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: En Anglais. Si vous voulez avancer, s’il vous plait.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY DR. RICHARD:
Q. - Good afternoon. My first question I would like to have a copy of the document Town of Shediac Smart Grid Pilot Plan?
MS. LANGLAIS: So NB Power does not have a copy of that document to share. We did, since Mr. Richard asked the question yesterday and we were aware that he was looking for that, we did inquire with the Town of Shediac about providing that document and they said that he would need to inquire through the Town of Shediac to I guess obtain that document.
Q. - I already did and they said that I should ask NB Power.
CHAIRMAN: So perhaps you can qualify it for me -- clarify, sorry, your response. I don’t know if you are saying that you don’t have the document or that you can’t share the document. So does NB Power have a copy of that document?
MS. LANGLAIS: It’s my understanding that we do not have a copy of the document
Page 469
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Dr. Richard, avez-vous des questions pour cette panel?
DR. RICHARD: Oui j’en aurais une ou deux.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Est-ce que vous allez poser vos questions dans la langue Français ou dans la langue Anglais?
DR. RICHARD : En Anglais.
VICE-CHAIRMAN: En Anglais. Si vous voulez avancer, s’il vous plait.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY DR. RICHARD:
Q. - Good afternoon. My first question I would like to have a copy of the document Town of Shediac Smart Grid Pilot Plan?
MS. LANGLAIS: So NB Power does not have a copy of that document to share. We did, since Mr. Richard asked the question yesterday and we were aware that he was looking for that, we did inquire with the Town of Shediac about providing that document and they said that he would need to inquire through the Town of Shediac to I guess obtain that document.
Q. - I already did and they said that I should ask NB Power.
CHAIRMAN: So perhaps you can qualify it for me -- clarify, sorry, your response. I don’t know if you are saying that you don’t have the document or that you can’t share the document. So does NB Power have a copy of that document?
MS. LANGLAIS: It’s my understanding that we do not have a copy of the document
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Continued
Q. - My next question would be have you evaluate the cost of a smart meter that would be wired instead of using WiFi?
MR. CRONKHITE: Sorry, can you repeat your question, I just missed on the first part there?
Q. - You know the cost of the smart meter, we can have a smart meter that is functioning with WiFi, or we can have a smart meter that function being wired with a wire. Have you checked the cost of the wired smart meter?
MR. FUREY: So, Mr. Chair, I struggle to see how this is not anything than other than directly related to an AMI application. I am not sure I can find any link to the current application.
CHAIRMAN: Well, Mr. Furey, only to the extent that some of the expenditures here are in preparation for AMI and I think I will let Dr. Richard’s question at least as far as it has gone, he has asked a very simple question whether or not they have looked at a directly wired device versus a WiFi one. So I would direct the panel if they have a response to that to provide it?
MS. LANGLAIS: So NB Power would have conducted a request for proposal for AMI meters when we were looking at I guess upgrading to the next version of meter and the vendors would have proposed a solution for us, and in those proposals we would not have received anything that would have been I guess a wired meter and not a WiFi meter.
Q. - My next question would be have you evaluate the cost of a smart meter that would be wired instead of using WiFi?
MR. CRONKHITE: Sorry, can you repeat your question, I just missed on the first part there?
Q. - You know the cost of the smart meter, we can have a smart meter that is functioning with WiFi, or we can have a smart meter that function being wired with a wire. Have you checked the cost of the wired smart meter?
MR. FUREY: So, Mr. Chair, I struggle to see how this is not anything than other than directly related to an AMI application. I am not sure I can find any link to the current application.
CHAIRMAN: Well, Mr. Furey, only to the extent that some of the expenditures here are in preparation for AMI and I think I will let Dr. Richard’s question at least as far as it has gone, he has asked a very simple question whether or not they have looked at a directly wired device versus a WiFi one. So I would direct the panel if they have a response to that to provide it?
MS. LANGLAIS: So NB Power would have conducted a request for proposal for AMI meters when we were looking at I guess upgrading to the next version of meter and the vendors would have proposed a solution for us, and in those proposals we would not have received anything that would have been I guess a wired meter and not a WiFi meter.
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Continued
Q. - My next question would be related a little bit to undertaking number 1.
CHAIRMAN: Dr. Richard, I am just going to ask if you might pull that microphone a little bit closer, just not picking up your voice very well, thank you.
Q. - What are the new position for Information Technology Specialist? It is from undertaking number 1 of yesterday morning. And does it relate to smart meters?
MR. CRONKHITE: Sorry, could you repeat your question, please, now that we have the undertaking in front of us?
Q. - Yes. It’s from the undertaking number 1 that was done yesterday. In the response they say that one position is a new position for an Information Technology Specialist. I would like to know if that position is related to smart meters?
MR. CRONKHITE: As indicated in the response, there is two positions related to the AMI infrastructure and one related to Information Technology Specialist. So I do not draw a correlation between the two based on the response.
Q. - Then my other question was what is the Director of Business Development area doing, what is his job?
MR. CRONKHITE: So within my area I have business development and strategic planning. Largely a lot of those activities are within the strategic planning header. Business development activities are conducted within that area. As part of normal operations and as it relates to succession planning, we will have requirements for new staff. And in this particular case, it’s the result of succession planning I believe for retirement.
Q. - My next question would be related a little bit to undertaking number 1.
CHAIRMAN: Dr. Richard, I am just going to ask if you might pull that microphone a little bit closer, just not picking up your voice very well, thank you.
Q. - What are the new position for Information Technology Specialist? It is from undertaking number 1 of yesterday morning. And does it relate to smart meters?
MR. CRONKHITE: Sorry, could you repeat your question, please, now that we have the undertaking in front of us?
Q. - Yes. It’s from the undertaking number 1 that was done yesterday. In the response they say that one position is a new position for an Information Technology Specialist. I would like to know if that position is related to smart meters?
MR. CRONKHITE: As indicated in the response, there is two positions related to the AMI infrastructure and one related to Information Technology Specialist. So I do not draw a correlation between the two based on the response.
Q. - Then my other question was what is the Director of Business Development area doing, what is his job?
MR. CRONKHITE: So within my area I have business development and strategic planning. Largely a lot of those activities are within the strategic planning header. Business development activities are conducted within that area. As part of normal operations and as it relates to succession planning, we will have requirements for new staff. And in this particular case, it’s the result of succession planning I believe for retirement.
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Continued
Q. - And coming back to smart meter, can you provide me a reference where smart meter have reduced the demand in power in other jurisdiction?
MR. CRONKHITE: So that information more specifically I believe would be brought forward as part of the AMI business case in a later proceeding.
Q. - And to make sure, the permission to deploy AMI has to go through Matter 357, is it true?
MR. CRONKHITE: No, I don’t believe that Matter 357 has a direct correlation, or requirement or prerequisite as it relates to AMI infrastructure.
DR. RICHARD: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Just before we call upon the next person for cross-examination, I still want to sort of clarify this issue of the document that Dr. Richard requested with respect to the Town of Shediac.
And he has indicated to us that they told him he should ask NB Power. And the response of this panel is that to your knowledge you don’t have it. But I am going to ask -- and we are going to be back tomorrow -- that you just check and see if you have it. Now you may have it and feel that you are not able to reveal it for whatever reason. There may be some confidentiality issues with respect to it. But it seems strange if they would ask him -- or indicate that he should ask NB Power. I am not suggesting that this panel is aware of it but, you know, overnight perhaps you could check and see if it is a document -- Mr. Furey, perhaps I really should be directing my remarks to you?
MR. FUREY: We will make the appropriate inquiries, Mr. Chair, and report back on that issue.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Stoll?
Q. - And coming back to smart meter, can you provide me a reference where smart meter have reduced the demand in power in other jurisdiction?
MR. CRONKHITE: So that information more specifically I believe would be brought forward as part of the AMI business case in a later proceeding.
Q. - And to make sure, the permission to deploy AMI has to go through Matter 357, is it true?
MR. CRONKHITE: No, I don’t believe that Matter 357 has a direct correlation, or requirement or prerequisite as it relates to AMI infrastructure.
DR. RICHARD: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Just before we call upon the next person for cross-examination, I still want to sort of clarify this issue of the document that Dr. Richard requested with respect to the Town of Shediac.
And he has indicated to us that they told him he should ask NB Power. And the response of this panel is that to your knowledge you don’t have it. But I am going to ask -- and we are going to be back tomorrow -- that you just check and see if you have it. Now you may have it and feel that you are not able to reveal it for whatever reason. There may be some confidentiality issues with respect to it. But it seems strange if they would ask him -- or indicate that he should ask NB Power. I am not suggesting that this panel is aware of it but, you know, overnight perhaps you could check and see if it is a document -- Mr. Furey, perhaps I really should be directing my remarks to you?
MR. FUREY: We will make the appropriate inquiries, Mr. Chair, and report back on that issue.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Stoll?
NB Power reviving vexed smart meter plan less than a year after EUB rejection
Utility’s initial calculations last year showed costs of smart meters outweigh benefits
· CBC News ·
NB
Power says it intends on submitting a fresh application for its
$100-million plan to install smart meters across the province. (Radio-Canada)
NB Power is ready to take a second run
at gaining permission to install smart meters with its 300,000 customers
and the plan, which already foundered once at the Energy and Utilities
Board, is stirring up controversy again.
"This will be no great surprise to the board, NB Power has indicated that it intends to bring a further application for approval of AMI — late summer, early fall as a rough time frame," said NB Power lawyer John Furey in addressing the EUB earlier this week.
AMI, which stands for Advanced Metering Infrastructure, is a collection of physical and digital upgrades to the electrical grid, including the installation of smart meters that will allow NB Power to collect individual consumption data electronically in real time from customers instead of once a month by a meter reader.
The utility said that will allow for all sorts of pricing and service innovations that the current electrical grid cannot deliver, like offering different electricity prices at different times of the day to match periods of low and high demand.
NB Power lawyer John Furey, left, said this week the utility will be submitting a new application to install more than 300,000 smart meters with its customers. A similar application was rejected by the EUB last July. (Graham Thompson/CBC)
The conversion is estimated to cost more than $100 million, an amount that requires EUB approval before NB Power can proceed.
Although it has not yet filed an application — or explained why the EUB would agree to a project it rejected less than a year ago — NB Power has already indicated it is planning around a positive decision on smart meters from the EUB by next January.
Based
on that expected approval, it asked at this year's rate hearing for
permission to spend $1.1 million in preparations for the program.
New Brunswick public intervenor Heather Black found that presumptuous and asked the EUB to reject the $1.1-million smart meter request when it sets NB Power's rates for the year next month.
New Brunswick public intervenor Heather Black asked the EUB to reject the $1.1-million proposal to begin preparing the smart meter program. (CBC)
"There is still no assurance that the approval (for smart meters) will be given at all, let alone whether it will be given by January 2020," said Black.
NB Power's first attempt to win approval for its smart meter plan was rejected by the EUB last July. It ruled the utility had not presented a convincing case to justify the project's large expense.
"The Board is not satisfied of the prudence of the AMI (smart meter) capital project," read the EUB's 39-page decision.
"Consequently, it is not in the public interest. The fundamental reason behind this conclusion is the Board's finding that no positive business case was established in the evidence."
New Brunswick's Energy and Utilities Board at NB Power's rate hearing last week in St. Andrews. The board rejected an application by NB Power to install smart meters across the province last year but will soon be asked to rule on the matter again. (Graham Thompson/CBC)
NB Power's original business case showed the costs of smart meters would outweigh benefits by a little over $1 million, a misstep in the application that placed it in immediate trouble.
During hearings in February 2018, NB Power tried to amend its calculations to boost the benefits of adopting the technology while NB Power president GaëtanThomas gave interviews urging its approval.
But
in its decision, the board was unconvinced by the rescue attempt and
said all the evidence supported the original application's fatal
acknowledgement that the cost of adopting smart meters would be higher
than the benefits it would generate.
"The demonstrated benefits to ratepayers must outweigh the expected costs that ratepayers will bear," it ruled.
Some critics also argued the meters posed a health hazard because they communicate wirelessly, but the EUB said it could find no evidence of a risk to the public.
NB Power promised to prepare a stronger case for the meters and return to the EUB within 18 months but will likely have to apply by August at the latest to leave enough time for a January decision.
"We won't file until we are ready," said NB Power vice-president Darren Murphy. "If there is some reason we get delayed in that, we will wait until we are ready to file, but certainly we would like to see an application made this year."
CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices"This will be no great surprise to the board, NB Power has indicated that it intends to bring a further application for approval of AMI — late summer, early fall as a rough time frame," said NB Power lawyer John Furey in addressing the EUB earlier this week.
AMI, which stands for Advanced Metering Infrastructure, is a collection of physical and digital upgrades to the electrical grid, including the installation of smart meters that will allow NB Power to collect individual consumption data electronically in real time from customers instead of once a month by a meter reader.
The utility said that will allow for all sorts of pricing and service innovations that the current electrical grid cannot deliver, like offering different electricity prices at different times of the day to match periods of low and high demand.
NB Power lawyer John Furey, left, said this week the utility will be submitting a new application to install more than 300,000 smart meters with its customers. A similar application was rejected by the EUB last July. (Graham Thompson/CBC)
The conversion is estimated to cost more than $100 million, an amount that requires EUB approval before NB Power can proceed.
Although it has not yet filed an application — or explained why the EUB would agree to a project it rejected less than a year ago — NB Power has already indicated it is planning around a positive decision on smart meters from the EUB by next January.
New Brunswick public intervenor Heather Black found that presumptuous and asked the EUB to reject the $1.1-million smart meter request when it sets NB Power's rates for the year next month.
New Brunswick public intervenor Heather Black asked the EUB to reject the $1.1-million proposal to begin preparing the smart meter program. (CBC)
"There is still no assurance that the approval (for smart meters) will be given at all, let alone whether it will be given by January 2020," said Black.
Fatal acknowledgement
NB Power's first attempt to win approval for its smart meter plan was rejected by the EUB last July. It ruled the utility had not presented a convincing case to justify the project's large expense.
"The Board is not satisfied of the prudence of the AMI (smart meter) capital project," read the EUB's 39-page decision.
"Consequently, it is not in the public interest. The fundamental reason behind this conclusion is the Board's finding that no positive business case was established in the evidence."
New Brunswick's Energy and Utilities Board at NB Power's rate hearing last week in St. Andrews. The board rejected an application by NB Power to install smart meters across the province last year but will soon be asked to rule on the matter again. (Graham Thompson/CBC)
NB Power's original business case showed the costs of smart meters would outweigh benefits by a little over $1 million, a misstep in the application that placed it in immediate trouble.
During hearings in February 2018, NB Power tried to amend its calculations to boost the benefits of adopting the technology while NB Power president GaëtanThomas gave interviews urging its approval.
"The demonstrated benefits to ratepayers must outweigh the expected costs that ratepayers will bear," it ruled.
Some critics also argued the meters posed a health hazard because they communicate wirelessly, but the EUB said it could find no evidence of a risk to the public.
NB Power promised to prepare a stronger case for the meters and return to the EUB within 18 months but will likely have to apply by August at the latest to leave enough time for a January decision.
"We won't file until we are ready," said NB Power vice-president Darren Murphy. "If there is some reason we get delayed in that, we will wait until we are ready to file, but certainly we would like to see an application made this year."
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