David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 47 others
Methinks this is an interesting stress test to see just how many honest pubic servants we have N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/04/3-in-4-public-servants-overpaid-by.html
#nbpoli #cdnpoli
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-overpay-numbers-workers-1.5091809
3 in 4 public servants overpaid by Phoenix
110 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
Fred Sanford
Funny how this Liberal government is trying to spin this colossal mess in a positive light by focusing on the number who were overpaid, but not mentioning anything about those who were underpaid or not paid at all. Also, contrary to what the average commentator seems to think, being overpaid is a BAD thing. Your payroll deductions (tax, pension, etc.) are all based on the over payment. When the over payment is all clawed back over subsequent paycheques, you end up with less money.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Fred
Sanford: YO Oh Ye with an interesting name Methinks you are largely
correct but I doubt that i will be allowed to agree with you for rather
obvious reasons N'esy Pas?
Robbie Adams
And every last one of them knew they were overpaid and came forward to repay the over payment???? Right????
David R. Amos
Reply to @Robbie Adams: Dream on
Laura Cotie
An irresponsible, inflammatory, inciteful headline when the truth is that, people are still on the job, their lives in complete havoc.... some hungry, unable to feed their children, losing their Family's home... Wow peeps... Walk a mile....
David R. Amos
Reply to @Laura Cotie: True
Greg Windsor
And I can get in on this "set for life" how ??? Sure must be nice ......
David R. Amos
Reply to @Greg Windsor: Me Too
Stewart MacLean
The ones who actually got paid I guess
David R. Amos
Reply to @Stewart
MacLean: Methinks most of the bureaucrats got paid however we should
feel sorry for the ones who did not N'esy Pas?
Jordan Newman
The systemic problem is with the lack of accountability.
I'd start with department evaluations with anonymous evaluators that can't be negotiated with.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Jordan Newman: "The systemic problem is with the lack of accountability."
BINGO
BINGO
stephen geme
You would think the Canadian government would demand compensation from the company that sold the faulty program to the government. Take charge of hard working Canadian money the we sent to Ottawa.
David R. Amos
Reply to @stephen geme: Methinks I should call that wishful thinking on your part N'esy Pas?
Dave More
If you work for government you receive tax dollars no different than a welfare recipient.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Dave More:
Methinks it was amazing how hard I had to battle the bureaucrats for my
CPP and my Old Age Pension because they had canceled my SIN then laughed
at me when they informed me. Hence I had good reason to chuckle as I
read about their troubles later. What is sauce for the goose is sauce
for the gander N'esy Pas?
John Peters
The math doesn't seem to add up since there is a much larger amount owed to those who did not receive enough, so the numbers are hard to believe.
David R. Amos
Reply to @John Peters: YUP
James Spencer III
Now they've been overpaid twice!
David R. Amos
Reply to @James Spencer III: Go Figure
Mike Carruthers
Government only cares about those who are being overpaid. How about those that did not receive pay or are underpaid??? The problem for overpayments will be at tax time. For those who are being underpaid or not receiving pay, the problem exists now and at tax time. Those who are being overpaid may be placed in a higher tax bracket, so more tax $$$ for the feds. Those who are being underpaid will be placed in a lower tax bracket and may receive a huge tax refund only to pay it back later
Fred Sanford
Reply to @Mike
Carruthers: They definitely recoup the over payments, they just don't
like to publicize that part of the fiasco.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Fred Sanford: Methinks they didn't publicizing my first comment either N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos
Content disabled
Methinks this is an interesting stress test to see just how many honest pubic servants we have N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos
Reply to @David R. Amos: Hmmmmm
Nico De Jong
And is anyone the least bit surprised by this?
Liberal governments - ALL about giving away money, that we don't have.
Colin Brander
Really CBC, this is the best you can do? The headline is badly misleading. It says that 3 of 4 were overpaid on at least ONE pay cheque, but doesn't mention the number of times people were underpaid, which likely has affected most of us.
Don McTavish
Note to government. 43,000 rules in union contracts? Keep it simple stupid, just doesn't seem strong enough.
Jay Jackson
$1.5 Billion dedicated to fixing an over-payment glitch of public sector wages. This is just insane. Hire an outside private party to fix this bloody mess already. What a joke this is.
Xuhua Xia
The problem will not be fixed unless someone can prove that it is related to election.
Marc Martin
*3 in 4 public servants overpaid by Phoenix* Misleading title, there is not 3 out 4 that has been paid and they still have the money...CBC get your facts straight.
Nancy Byng
I haven't been really following the Phoenix Pay System. I believe it would be quite appropriate for Phoenix to absorb any costs involved in this ludicrous affair; why should we, the taxpayers have to pay for these astronomical costs because of their mistake. Go back to the old way of doing payroll; hire clerks.
Douglas Fowler
Can the Liberal Govt do anything right?
Douglas Fowler
Liberals were warned the system was not tested and should not be used, The Libs went ahead anyways! What sad Govt!!
Marc Martin
Bernie Hunter
When a private company do not pay their employees promptly they are fined. This is a calamity, where was the workers union in this.
Easy fix to overpayment-deduct monthly until its paid off. Workers know if they are not paid enough, they also know when they are paid too much.
This taxpayer is the employer and wants my money returned.
Jordan Newman
"'Crisis bigger than we thought'"
Considering the functionality and quality of the government is based on employee performance, no doubt.
"Last fall, former auditor general Michael Ferguson said his department estimated there had been $246 million in over payments and $369 million in underpayments by Phoenix as of March 31, 2018."
From April 2016, that is a combined average of $842,465 in daily(365) employee compensation discrepancies, over a 2 year period. I'm sure that affects the individual's productivity, over time, just a bit.
"As of January, of the approximately 300,000 workers paid through Phoenix, 223,173, or about 74.4 per cent, had been overpaid at least once between April 2016 and January 2019"
That's like 9 over payments per hour, assuming only 1 error per person. Not including the under payments.
Just imagine the story, like the one below, happening 9 times an hour, minimum
David R. Amos
Nico De Jong
And is anyone the least bit surprised by this?
Liberal governments - ALL about giving away money, that we don't have.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Nico De Jong: "And is anyone the least bit surprised by this?"
Not me
Not me
Colin Brander
Really CBC, this is the best you can do? The headline is badly misleading. It says that 3 of 4 were overpaid on at least ONE pay cheque, but doesn't mention the number of times people were underpaid, which likely has affected most of us.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Colin
Brander: Methinks the interesting part is so few comments on this issue
It appears that most folks don't care about the bureaucrat's troubles
with their big pay cheques N'esy Pas?
Don McTavish
Note to government. 43,000 rules in union contracts? Keep it simple stupid, just doesn't seem strong enough.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Don McTavish: Methinks the government is not aware of the KISS principal N'esy Pas?
Jay Jackson
$1.5 Billion dedicated to fixing an over-payment glitch of public sector wages. This is just insane. Hire an outside private party to fix this bloody mess already. What a joke this is.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Jay Jackson: "This is just insane"
Welcome to the circus
Welcome to the circus
Xuhua Xia
The problem will not be fixed unless someone can prove that it is related to election.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Xuhua Xia: Oh So True
Marc Martin
*3 in 4 public servants overpaid by Phoenix* Misleading title, there is not 3 out 4 that has been paid and they still have the money...CBC get your facts straight.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marc Martin: Methinks you should too N'esy Pas?
Nancy Byng
I haven't been really following the Phoenix Pay System. I believe it would be quite appropriate for Phoenix to absorb any costs involved in this ludicrous affair; why should we, the taxpayers have to pay for these astronomical costs because of their mistake. Go back to the old way of doing payroll; hire clerks.
Marc Martin
Reply to @Nancy Byng: Harper laid them all off and none want to come back
Leszek Hoszko
Reply to @Marc Martin: harper harper harper harper. The Liberals hold power. Do Something about the problem
David R. Amos
Reply to @Leszek Hoszko: Exactly
Douglas Fowler
Can the Liberal Govt do anything right?
David R. Amos
Reply to @Douglas Fowler: "Can the Liberal Govt do anything right? "
Obviously not
Obviously not
Douglas Fowler
Liberals were warned the system was not tested and should not be used, The Libs went ahead anyways! What sad Govt!!
Marc Martin
Reply to @Douglas
Fowler: They had no choice, the pay advisors where already laid off, by
the way Harper and is Cons new this program had failed in Australia and
he still bought it.
David R. Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Marc Martin: Why are you still whining about Conservatives? Bernie Hunter
When a private company do not pay their employees promptly they are fined. This is a calamity, where was the workers union in this.
Easy fix to overpayment-deduct monthly until its paid off. Workers know if they are not paid enough, they also know when they are paid too much.
This taxpayer is the employer and wants my money returned.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Bernie Hunter: "This is a calamity, where was the workers union in this"
Good question
Good question
Jordan Newman
"'Crisis bigger than we thought'"
Considering the functionality and quality of the government is based on employee performance, no doubt.
"Last fall, former auditor general Michael Ferguson said his department estimated there had been $246 million in over payments and $369 million in underpayments by Phoenix as of March 31, 2018."
From April 2016, that is a combined average of $842,465 in daily(365) employee compensation discrepancies, over a 2 year period. I'm sure that affects the individual's productivity, over time, just a bit.
"As of January, of the approximately 300,000 workers paid through Phoenix, 223,173, or about 74.4 per cent, had been overpaid at least once between April 2016 and January 2019"
That's like 9 over payments per hour, assuming only 1 error per person. Not including the under payments.
Just imagine the story, like the one below, happening 9 times an hour, minimum
David R. Amos
Reply to @Jordan Newman: "'Crisis bigger than we thought'"
Methinks they knew it all along N'esy Pas?
Methinks they knew it all along N'esy Pas?
Sean Thompson
This article is one of many that does a bad job of explaining how the phoenix pay system actually impacted workers. My wife and I are both federal public servants and the phoenix pay system had a tremendously negative impact on our family for several years when we already tight on cash due to starting a family and raising small children. First my wife was forced to work without pay for four consecutive months. She still had to cover the daily work expenses such as parking and all requests for a cash advance or emergency payment were refused as her pay account showed an outstanding balance (they gave someone 60K for no reason and linked it to her pay account). They put my family through this while we were caring for two young children and my mother in law was dying from ALS. They then managed to both overpay and underpay me for the 2016 tax year. They decided to action the debits in late 2016 by cutting off my pay without warning and seizing my collected income tax for the year (leaving me to explain to CRA why I had paid no taxes. They took this action without returning any of my 1000+ phone calls on the very day that my mother in Law lost her battle with ALS. We were forced to cover her funeral costs on visa and cash RRSP's to pay our mortgage through early 2017. Story Continues below.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Sean Thompson: Perhaps we should talk about my doings with the CRA et al?
Sean Thompson
Story Continues. Eventually they took action for the credits on my account and paid me the outstanding balance which was strikingly similar to what they had stolen from me without warning. The result was that my 2017 income was double my 2016 income for the same position and rate of pay. To add insult to injury as a result of my inflated 2017 income they then cut our child benefit for our kids because between the outstanding credit reconciliation and needing to cash RRSP's to keep our home, I made too much money. We have tried for three years to resolve our issues. Our Local MP (Andrew Leslie) is useless, the responsible Minister (Carla Qualthrough) will not respond at all and the PM's (Justin Trudeau) office will only redirect our correspondence to the office of the ever unresponsive Carla Qualthrough. In the end my family is out at least 50 K in cash, we have had two full years of Mat/Pat leave ruined and my children have all done without for either most of all of their lives. We have opened countless tickets to address our issues, but they all get closed and flagged as completed simply because they cannot fix what they have done. They need to start negotiating compensation for those most affected and stop hiding the impacts.
Story Continues. Eventually they took action for the credits on my account and paid me the outstanding balance which was strikingly similar to what they had stolen from me without warning. The result was that my 2017 income was double my 2016 income for the same position and rate of pay. To add insult to injury as a result of my inflated 2017 income they then cut our child benefit for our kids because between the outstanding credit reconciliation and needing to cash RRSP's to keep our home, I made too much money. We have tried for three years to resolve our issues. Our Local MP (Andrew Leslie) is useless, the responsible Minister (Carla Qualthrough) will not respond at all and the PM's (Justin Trudeau) office will only redirect our correspondence to the office of the ever unresponsive Carla Qualthrough. In the end my family is out at least 50 K in cash, we have had two full years of Mat/Pat leave ruined and my children have all done without for either most of all of their lives. We have opened countless tickets to address our issues, but they all get closed and flagged as completed simply because they cannot fix what they have done. They need to start negotiating compensation for those most affected and stop hiding the impacts.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Sean Thompson: WOW
Joyce Hunter
I had a colleague who call them up as soon as she saw an overpayment and the system was showing that there was no overpayment....ha ha ha. I'm still waiting for missing pay from fiscal year 2016-2017...go figure...
David R. Amos
Reply to @Joyce Hunter: What is so funny?
Dawn MacNeill
Harper & Rona's gift that keeps on taking. They gave Canada and our public servants The Phoenix even though they knew it was a flop. Australia had one that didn't work. Typical Reformer/Con mismanagement.
Ken Sonnenberg
Reply to @Dawn
MacNeill: Well it was Trudeau the turned this system loose without
listening to advised warnings that testing was in order. But that was
unnecessary as far as Trudeau and his dog and pony show were concerned.
Marc Martin
Reply to @Ken Sonnenberg: Pay advisor where already laid of by Harper he had no choice.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marc Martin: Cry me a river
David R. Amos
Reply to @Ken Sonnenberg: YUP
John Nelson
He's a Liberal MP, right? 100% BS.
Dawn MacNeill
Reply to @John
Nelson: Time to get Fife the Knife at the Globe and Mail to reveal his
sources, anonymous or not, because he has done great damage to his
country's national interests. Fife the Knife Reveal your Sources.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Dawn MacNeill: YUP
Phil Montgomery
This should never have happened, Phoenix should have never gone live prior to a parallel implementation that at least had the representation of most of the sectors and corner cases that have tripped up this botched attempt. This kind of fiasco would only happen in the private sector immediately before a bankruptcy - massive incompetence, heads should roll and the feeble attempt by Liberals to disavow responsibility simply because they just happened to be at the helm when the trigger was pulled and the bomb went off.......
I guess we just move on and try not to become even more jaded with the way our public purses are wasted, it is not even surprising any more. Business as usual on the hill.
Dawn MacNeil
Reply to @Phil
Montgomery: Harper & Rona purchased this flawed 'thing' even though
Australia had one that was a flop. Harper got rid of any support staff,
'before', the thing was turned on. Typical mismanagement by people not
fit to govern.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Dawn MacNeill: "Typical mismanagement by people not fit to govern"
I wholeheartedly agree
I wholeheartedly agree
Jane Smith
...I was overpaid from an acting 3 pays in a row...I was not contacted...I had to contact them...and I was met with a dissertation on how the person helping me was loosing their job...they didn't seem interested in helping me...I had set the money aside...it took over 12 months for them to recover it...
David R. Amos
Reply to @Jane Smith: Thank you for acting with integrity
Wallace Gouk
Shocking incompetence !
David R. Amos
Reply to @Wallace Gouk: Not really
David Peters
It's a free-for-all at the trough.
David R. Amos
Reply to @David Peters: YUP
Davey Smith
Actually some things aren't correct in this article. I was "double payed" four months straight. To the tune of nearly 11K. Yes yes, I held on to it. It's not mine bla bla. The thing is...they opened a ticket after the first instance and NEVER actioned it. So to say they contact you after the first overpayment - well that aint true. It sat there until I called them on it around tax time half a year later. Why wait so long? Well they don't really take calls. And if you open a second or a third ticket it confuses the system that already has a ticket on that issue. They can't even get an efficient "fix system"
David R. Amos
Reply to @Davey Smith: Interesting
Steve Vossos
Why can’t they fix this payroll database? And they claim to be able to fix the climate! Ha. Start with the nuts and bolts.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Steve Vossos: Very Good Point Sir
Lloyd Browen
Liberals were TOLD the system wasn't ready.
BUT they went ahead anyway - without a backup and without a back out plan.
But hey, those unicorns are cute.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Lloyd Browen: "But hey, those unicorns are cute."
Methinks that thou doth jest just enough after all this is just another circus N'esy Pas?
Jordan Newman
"223K federal workers have received too much pay"
Business as usual
David R. Amos
Reply to @Jordan Newman: YUP
Alex Forbes
So we are hearing complaints from a minority then?
David R. Amos
Reply to @Alex Forbes: Perhaps
Harold Benson
Or was it underpaid........................?
David R. Amos
Reply to @Harold Benson: Methinks its hard telling not knowing who to believe N'esy Pas?
Glen robert
And you were warned.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Glen robert: Oh So True
3 in 4 public servants overpaid by Phoenix
More than 223K federal workers have received too much pay, latest numbers show
Nearly three-quarters of federal public
servants have received too much money on at least one paycheque issued
by the Phoenix pay system.
As of January, of the approximately 300,000 workers paid through Phoenix, 223,173, or about 74.4 per cent, had been overpaid at least once between April 2016 and January 2019, according to Gatineau MP Steven MacKinnon, the parliamentary secretary to the minister of Public Services and Procurement.
MacKinnon made the numbers public in mid-March in response to a question in the House of Commons from Opposition critic Kelly McCauley.
It's the first time the precise overpayment figures have been released.
"The crisis is bigger than we thought," said Greg McGillis, executive vice-president of the National Capital Region for the Public Service Alliance of Canada.
The reported overpayments include technical errors that are often spotted and fixed before payment is received, as well as actual deposits. In counting the errors, the government makes no distinction between the two, according to a Public Services and Procurement Canada spokesperson.
When public servants receive pay for unpaid leave or an acting role they no longer fill, things can get complicated for them at tax time.
Once a worker is overpaid for three consecutive pay periods, they're contacted by a compensation specialist to discuss how to pay it back.
Last fall, former auditor general Michael Ferguson said his department estimated there had been $246 million in overpayments and $369 million in underpayments by Phoenix as of March 31, 2018.
The 2019 federal budget dedicates about $1.5 billion toward stabilizing and replacing the pay system, which launched in February 2016.
As of January, of the approximately 300,000 workers paid through Phoenix, 223,173, or about 74.4 per cent, had been overpaid at least once between April 2016 and January 2019, according to Gatineau MP Steven MacKinnon, the parliamentary secretary to the minister of Public Services and Procurement.
MacKinnon made the numbers public in mid-March in response to a question in the House of Commons from Opposition critic Kelly McCauley.
It's the first time the precise overpayment figures have been released.
'Crisis bigger than we thought'
"The crisis is bigger than we thought," said Greg McGillis, executive vice-president of the National Capital Region for the Public Service Alliance of Canada.
The reported overpayments include technical errors that are often spotted and fixed before payment is received, as well as actual deposits. In counting the errors, the government makes no distinction between the two, according to a Public Services and Procurement Canada spokesperson.
When public servants receive pay for unpaid leave or an acting role they no longer fill, things can get complicated for them at tax time.
Once a worker is overpaid for three consecutive pay periods, they're contacted by a compensation specialist to discuss how to pay it back.
Last fall, former auditor general Michael Ferguson said his department estimated there had been $246 million in overpayments and $369 million in underpayments by Phoenix as of March 31, 2018.
The 2019 federal budget dedicates about $1.5 billion toward stabilizing and replacing the pay system, which launched in February 2016.
With files from Florence Ngué-No
CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices
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