David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and 47 others
Methinks everybody knows that the lawyer Jody Wilson-Raybould is no victim in fact I am about to name her in my next lawsuit N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/04/how-snc-lavalin-affair-tested-trudeaus.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/snc-lavalin-trudeau-aaron-wherry-1.5082972
How the SNC-Lavalin affair tested Trudeau's ideals
699 Comments
Peter Vanderkellin
Boy - cbc quite busy trying to spin this in a positive way to earn that 600 million.
Between this nonsense and the carban tax grab - they have plenty of propaganda to publish!
Show 10 older replies
David R. Amos
Reply to @Peter Vanderkellin: "Boy - cbc quite busy trying to spin this in a positive way to earn that 600 million."
Methinks a lt of Maritimers enjoyed listening to "The Current" today an hour before folks in Ottawa could hear it. Perhaps they should tune in right now N'esy Pas?
Methinks a lt of Maritimers enjoyed listening to "The Current" today an hour before folks in Ottawa could hear it. Perhaps they should tune in right now N'esy Pas?
Mark Edmonson
At the end of the day, he doesn't seem genuine on anything really.
George Jefferson
Reply to @Richard
Sharp: - You must be his dog fluffy, because only a dog will love you no
matter what you do. Beat them, starve them doesn't matter
Richard Sharp
Reply to @George Jefferson:
I criticize the Libs all the time, such as their foreign policy, but defend the wrongly accused. No one on Canada is more wrongly accused, sneered at and collectively bullied than Trudeau.
I criticize the Libs all the time, such as their foreign policy, but defend the wrongly accused. No one on Canada is more wrongly accused, sneered at and collectively bullied than Trudeau.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Richard Sharp: "I criticize the Libs all the time"
David R. Amos
Reply to @Mark Edmonson: "At the end of the day, he doesn't seem genuine on anything really."
Thats because he isn't
Thats because he isn't
George Young
Upholding the independence of the justice system is not a feminist issue: it is the core of our democracy.
Wilson-Raybould did the right thing and Justin Trudeau should have supported the independence of the justice system by supporting her.
A Prime Minister who even lets our justice system be threatened is unfit for office.
David MacKinnon
Reply to @George Young:
yep the lawyers must rule.if not they will hold their breath and turn blue
yep the lawyers must rule.if not they will hold their breath and turn blue
George Young
Reply to @David
MacKinnon: If you would make a sensible comment I might be able to
understand what you are posting: this issue is about your freedom, which
you feel is worth mocking... sad...
Craig Macneil
Reply to @George
Young: She tried to black mail our PM,if Trudeau would of given in to
her demands we would of heard nothing on this.Great ethics for sure.
George Young
Reply to @Craig
Macneil: She was being bullied. Her reaction was to try to ensure those
responsible would be punished and that SNC-Lavalin would be given a
trial, as they should be. Stop blaming the victim and defend our justice
system.
Jose Smith
Reply to @Craig Macneil:
I saw no blackmail what soever in the unfolding days. I saw a lot of males trying to coerce the decision making to their liking
I saw no blackmail what soever in the unfolding days. I saw a lot of males trying to coerce the decision making to their liking
Jennifer McIsaac
Reply to @Craig Macneil:
Agreed. It was unacceptable for JWR to be pressured but highly acceptable to pressure JT in return. Black Pots calling Kettles black seems to come to mind. Clearly intransigence and an uncompromising outlook seem to burden JWR and to some extent JT. The old case of the immovable object encountering the irresistible force.
That JWR would ever countenance surviving in the Liberal mcaucus seems strange. The space under the bus is littered with many who have tried that in the past.
Agreed. It was unacceptable for JWR to be pressured but highly acceptable to pressure JT in return. Black Pots calling Kettles black seems to come to mind. Clearly intransigence and an uncompromising outlook seem to burden JWR and to some extent JT. The old case of the immovable object encountering the irresistible force.
That JWR would ever countenance surviving in the Liberal mcaucus seems strange. The space under the bus is littered with many who have tried that in the past.
David MacKinnon
Reply to @David MacKinnon:
in the us prosecutors and judges spent time discussing if lawyers should be required in homes when parents are having discussions with their children; it's time to have a five year moratorium on law schools
in the us prosecutors and judges spent time discussing if lawyers should be required in homes when parents are having discussions with their children; it's time to have a five year moratorium on law schools
David R. Amos
Reply to @David MacKinnon: "yep the lawyers must rule.if not they will hold their breath and turn blue"
Methinks many a true word is said in jest N'esy Pas?
Methinks many a true word is said in jest N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos
Reply to @George Young: "If you would make a sensible comment I might be able to understand"
NOPE Methinks many folks will agree that Mr MacKinnon posted an irrefutable truth about lawyers in a fun fashion It is you who claim that fellow Canadians who disagree with your opinions are not sensible N'esy Pas?
NOPE Methinks many folks will agree that Mr MacKinnon posted an irrefutable truth about lawyers in a fun fashion It is you who claim that fellow Canadians who disagree with your opinions are not sensible N'esy Pas?
Jennifer McIsaac
Trudeau certainly set out with many strong statements about his values and intents. It set a lot of high expectations and setting high expectations can always lead to a problem should there ever be a case showing slippage and not meeting those expectations. It is a risky thing to do when setting out afresh.
Now, when a clearly difficult situation occurred with SNC, it was such a slip when the awarding of a DPA seems to have become a priority as a quick way to a resolution. JWR stood on her principles, which appear to be totally inflexible and indicate, perhaps, a very uncompromising outlook, and conflict occurred. Whether JWR's complaints about pressure being excessive I think is open to question, but no doubt there was intent not to give up on the DPA route to a solution.
So when the conflict was aired, speculations ran rampant, the media and Opposition all leapt on to the condemnation of Trudeau without a lot of factual basis and any attempt at rational discussion was replaced with damning rhetoric such that there was no way to avoid nserious damage to all concerned.
That JWR and JP survived so long in caucus is another wonder as most PM's would have dumped them post haste in an attempt to staunch the bleeding. I can only think that Trudeau's attempts to restore his values system by trying to resolve the issues and keep the peace with JWR have also shown that there is a degree of intransigence now on both sides - unrealistic demands by JWR that could never be met.
It is a sad situation for our political scene that will impair Canada's governance for some time.
George Young
Reply to @Jennifer
McIsaac: Ah, the sweet reason argument. I am satisfied that JWR faced
intense pressure from 11 individuals in the government and bureaucracy
and if her response was strong, good: I would expect nothing less from
the person responsible for ensuring the independence of our judiciary.
Your argument is flawed by this fact: An AG was provoked to defend
herself and Canadian justice from interference from this government and
that is a crime and a serious threat to judicial independence. There is
nothing Trudeau can say that can erase the fact that he threatened
judicial independence in this country. That is an act worthy of removal
from office. He can't argue his way out of this and you can't sweet
reason it away...
Jennifer
McIsaac
Reply to @George Young:
I think the level of pressure is grossly overestimated from all the dialog on this issue I have seen. The media have vastly over emphasised what is fairly normal in positions where highly difficult situations arise and where incumbents need to be able to withstand pressure.
If it had been me under that pressure, I would simply have ignored it and continued to do my job as I thought best. That would be the mark of a good AG. Not one who was clearly annoyed that her dominance was being called into question and wanted to strike back.
I think the level of pressure is grossly overestimated from all the dialog on this issue I have seen. The media have vastly over emphasised what is fairly normal in positions where highly difficult situations arise and where incumbents need to be able to withstand pressure.
If it had been me under that pressure, I would simply have ignored it and continued to do my job as I thought best. That would be the mark of a good AG. Not one who was clearly annoyed that her dominance was being called into question and wanted to strike back.
Barry Luft
Reply to @Jennifer McIsaac:
From what i understand, that is what she did... however because she ignored it and did her job, she was demoted by Trudeau and then fired
From what i understand, that is what she did... however because she ignored it and did her job, she was demoted by Trudeau and then fired
David R. Amos
Reply to @George
Young: "I would expect nothing less from the person responsible for
ensuring the independence of our judiciary. Your argument is flawed by
this fact:"
Methinks you should read my lawsuit filed in Federal Court when Harper was the Prime Minister (File Number T-1557-15) then ask yourself why Jody Wilson-Raybould and her minions attacked it then appointed her Deputy Minister to the Federal Court bench when she thought the circus was over N'esy Pas?
Methinks you should read my lawsuit filed in Federal Court when Harper was the Prime Minister (File Number T-1557-15) then ask yourself why Jody Wilson-Raybould and her minions attacked it then appointed her Deputy Minister to the Federal Court bench when she thought the circus was over N'esy Pas?
Jennifer McMullen
Reply to @Jennifer McIsaac: As a good AG JWR did stand up to the pressure. However, then she was demoted because she wouldn’t give in.
mo bennett
do they rent hip waders for tours on parliament hill?
David R. Amos
Reply to @mo bennett: YO MO Methinks you should develop that idea N'esy Pas?
George
Young
Reply to @mo bennett:
Is politics a sideshow for you? Are no issues worthy of a reasoned,
thoughtful, non-mocking response? Do you have anything to add to this
issue other than mockery. You degrade the CBC website by your behaviour.
David R. Amos
Reply to @George
Young: Methinks after my running for public office six times thus far Mo
and CBC know that I take my politicking seriously N'esy Pas?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/fundy-royal-riding-profile-1.3274276
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/fundy-royal-riding-profile-1.3274276
David R. Amos
Reply to @George Young: "You degrade the CBC website by your behaviour."
Methinks you have no right to judge anyone's behaviour N'esy Pas?
Methinks you have no right to judge anyone's behaviour N'esy Pas?
James Mittlefehdt
Reply to @George
Young: No George mo is and always has been clear on his opinions and
what he thinks about politicians in general regardless of their
affiliation.
Moira Wilkinson
What do you call a person who negotiates with a List Of conditionedto to be followed before that person will end the attack?
George Young
Reply to @Moira
Wilkinson : You call her a hero who is defending the independence of the
Canadian judicial system. This issue is beyond your comprehension
apparently. JWR did her duty defending herself and judicial
independence. Blaming the victim is never an intelligent response.
Barry Luft
Reply to @Moira Wilkinson :
I dont know... A good negotiator?
I dont know... A good negotiator?
David R.
Amos
Reply to @George
Young: Methinks everybody knows that the lawyer Jody Wilson-Raybould is
no victim in fact I am about to name her in my next lawsuit N'esy Pas?
George Young
Reply to @David R.
Amos: My comment makes clear that I believe she is a victim: of
interference by 11 members of the government, and by Trudeau who won't
defend the independence of the judiciary. If you have a sensible
comment, please post it?
David R.
Amos
Reply to @George Young: "If you have a sensible comment, please post it?"
Methinks you have not bothered to read any of my comments or my lawsuit either. If that is so then you have no right to say that I am not sensible If you wish to argue me in Federal Court then please intervene in the meantime you should quit insulting me in a public forum N'esy Pas?
Methinks you have not bothered to read any of my comments or my lawsuit either. If that is so then you have no right to say that I am not sensible If you wish to argue me in Federal Court then please intervene in the meantime you should quit insulting me in a public forum N'esy Pas?
How the SNC-Lavalin affair tested Trudeau's ideals
He built an image that led people to believe that, in a crisis, he wouldn't act like a politician
The thing about standing for an ideal is that people expect you to live up to it — or at least to their idea of it.
Justin Trudeau built his leadership upon a set of ideals: "sunny ways," cabinet government, transparency, openness, inclusion, reconciliation, gender equality and doing things "differently." Trudeau's commitment to nearly every one of those principles has been challenged by critics and rivals over the last two months — his commitment to feminism in particular, now that Jody Wilson-Raybould and Jane Philpott have been expelled from the Liberal parliamentary caucus.
Outside the House of Commons on Tuesday, reporters pressed Trudeau and his ministers to comment on the government's feminist credentials and the message sent to young women by the expulsions of two women who had become the prime minister's prominent critics.
"We have a strong prime minister that is a feminist. We have a feminist agenda. Our record speaks for itself," said Mélanie Joly, the tourism minister. "As to my two colleagues, I would argue that loyalty and feminism are two different things. And actually, there is no female or male definition of loyalty. It's either you have team spirit, you want to work in a team, or you don't."
So perhaps two male ministers, behaving exactly the same way, would have met the same fate.
At the Daughters of the Vote event in the House on Tuesday — a biannual gathering that puts young women in the seats of MPs for a morning of speeches and discussion — some 50 delegates stood and silently turned their backs as the prime minister delivered his remarks.
"I know nobody in here wants to have to pick who to believe between Jody Wilson Raybould and Chrystia Freeland," he said. "Nobody wants to know that one person has to be right and another person has to be wrong between Jane Philpott or Maryam Monsef."
That women stood behind Trudeau's decision to expel Wilson-Raybould and Philpott likely is not irrelevant. But maybe it's not the prime minister's task to pit them against each other.
It's likely not up to any one person (certainly not me) to say whether Trudeau is a good feminist. But if there was any solace for Trudeau in the Commons yesterday, it was in the fact that all 338 of those young women — even the ones unhappy with him — stayed in the chamber as he spoke. Moments prior, several dozen delegates simply walked out on Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer's speech.
(On the other hand, NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh's speech was received enthusiastically by the group — which might make Trudeau anxious.)
"By
kicking the first Indigenous former attorney general of Canada out of
caucus for upholding the law, the prime minister has made it clear that
principled women who dare to stand up to him are not welcome in the
Liberal Party," the NDP's Jenny Kwan charged in question period. "Is this what a self-proclaimed feminist looks like in 2019?"
Trudeau tried to make the case for his own feminism, or at least for his government's commitment to the ideal: a development assistance policy aimed at women and girls, gender-based analysis of budgets, legislated pay equity, funding for women's organizations and a gender-balanced cabinet.
Then the prime minister offered a bit of meta commentary.
"I recognize there is much more to do and I am proud that there is now a contest among party leaders to see who can be the better feminist. I think that is a great thing for this country. I think that is a great thing for Parliament."
Perhaps there's some solace there too.
The struggle between Trudeau and his ideals has been real. He waived solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidentiality to allow Wilson-Raybould to speak about her time as attorney general, but she objected that the waiver did not go far enough. Liberal members of the justice committee were apparently free to look into the SNC affair, but then the hearings were abandoned.
In both cases, Trudeau probably went further than Stephen Harper would have gone. But in neither case did he go as far as he could have.
In vowing to do things differently, he raised the expectation that — when confronted with a profound challenge — he would be perfectly forthcoming, without regard for the normal political impulse to control the narrative and limit the damage.
Former justice minister Jody Wilson-Raybould leaves West Block on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, April 2, 2019. (Chris Wattie/Reuters)
In
appointing the first Indigenous minister of justice and attorney
general, he put an incredible burden on himself and his office to ensure
both her success and a good working relationship between them. That
made the possibility of moving her, or demoting her, a daunting
prospect.
For all that, Trudeau might now fall back on what he's been insisting all along — that neither he nor his office did anything wrong (the claim that they did is at least in dispute) and that their cause (saving jobs) was just.
Wilson-Raybould says she told Gerry Butts, Trudeau's former adviser, that the Prime Minister's Office was inappropriately pressuring her. Butts disputes that claim. Wilson-Raybould did raise a concern in a phone call with the clerk of the Privy Council, Michael Wernick. But Wernick seems not to have told Trudeau about what she said.
Liberals will also argue that they had perfectly valid reasons for wanting Wilson-Raybould and Philpott gone from caucus — starting with the fact that, at the very least, they had reasons to believe they no longer all shared the same goal.
But Trudeau and his fellow Liberals must understand the symbolic value of everything that's happened with the SNC-Lavalin file. Two impressive women now sit outside the Liberal caucus. We're still waiting on an ethics commissioner probe; the facts have not been fully and completely aired.
Maybe his political opponents weren't complaining in good faith. Maybe nothing would have satisfied them.
But the last two months will still weigh down any attempt by Trudeau to lay claim to those ideals. Trudeau must hope that giving voice to those ideals, and his pursuit of them, still count for something, even if he has not always fully embodied the ideal.
Justin Trudeau built his leadership upon a set of ideals: "sunny ways," cabinet government, transparency, openness, inclusion, reconciliation, gender equality and doing things "differently." Trudeau's commitment to nearly every one of those principles has been challenged by critics and rivals over the last two months — his commitment to feminism in particular, now that Jody Wilson-Raybould and Jane Philpott have been expelled from the Liberal parliamentary caucus.
Outside the House of Commons on Tuesday, reporters pressed Trudeau and his ministers to comment on the government's feminist credentials and the message sent to young women by the expulsions of two women who had become the prime minister's prominent critics.
"We have a strong prime minister that is a feminist. We have a feminist agenda. Our record speaks for itself," said Mélanie Joly, the tourism minister. "As to my two colleagues, I would argue that loyalty and feminism are two different things. And actually, there is no female or male definition of loyalty. It's either you have team spirit, you want to work in a team, or you don't."
So perhaps two male ministers, behaving exactly the same way, would have met the same fate.
At the Daughters of the Vote event in the House on Tuesday — a biannual gathering that puts young women in the seats of MPs for a morning of speeches and discussion — some 50 delegates stood and silently turned their backs as the prime minister delivered his remarks.
An awkward diversion
Trudeau acknowledged the obvious tension of the day, but then awkwardly tried to contrast the departure of two strong women with ... the continued presence of two strong women."I know nobody in here wants to have to pick who to believe between Jody Wilson Raybould and Chrystia Freeland," he said. "Nobody wants to know that one person has to be right and another person has to be wrong between Jane Philpott or Maryam Monsef."
That women stood behind Trudeau's decision to expel Wilson-Raybould and Philpott likely is not irrelevant. But maybe it's not the prime minister's task to pit them against each other.
It's likely not up to any one person (certainly not me) to say whether Trudeau is a good feminist. But if there was any solace for Trudeau in the Commons yesterday, it was in the fact that all 338 of those young women — even the ones unhappy with him — stayed in the chamber as he spoke. Moments prior, several dozen delegates simply walked out on Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer's speech.
(On the other hand, NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh's speech was received enthusiastically by the group — which might make Trudeau anxious.)
Trudeau tried to make the case for his own feminism, or at least for his government's commitment to the ideal: a development assistance policy aimed at women and girls, gender-based analysis of budgets, legislated pay equity, funding for women's organizations and a gender-balanced cabinet.
Then the prime minister offered a bit of meta commentary.
"I recognize there is much more to do and I am proud that there is now a contest among party leaders to see who can be the better feminist. I think that is a great thing for this country. I think that is a great thing for Parliament."
Perhaps there's some solace there too.
Thus far, but not far enough
The struggle between Trudeau and his ideals has been real. He waived solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidentiality to allow Wilson-Raybould to speak about her time as attorney general, but she objected that the waiver did not go far enough. Liberal members of the justice committee were apparently free to look into the SNC affair, but then the hearings were abandoned.
In both cases, Trudeau probably went further than Stephen Harper would have gone. But in neither case did he go as far as he could have.
In vowing to do things differently, he raised the expectation that — when confronted with a profound challenge — he would be perfectly forthcoming, without regard for the normal political impulse to control the narrative and limit the damage.
For all that, Trudeau might now fall back on what he's been insisting all along — that neither he nor his office did anything wrong (the claim that they did is at least in dispute) and that their cause (saving jobs) was just.
Wilson-Raybould says she told Gerry Butts, Trudeau's former adviser, that the Prime Minister's Office was inappropriately pressuring her. Butts disputes that claim. Wilson-Raybould did raise a concern in a phone call with the clerk of the Privy Council, Michael Wernick. But Wernick seems not to have told Trudeau about what she said.
The power of symbolism
Liberals will also argue that they had perfectly valid reasons for wanting Wilson-Raybould and Philpott gone from caucus — starting with the fact that, at the very least, they had reasons to believe they no longer all shared the same goal.
But Trudeau and his fellow Liberals must understand the symbolic value of everything that's happened with the SNC-Lavalin file. Two impressive women now sit outside the Liberal caucus. We're still waiting on an ethics commissioner probe; the facts have not been fully and completely aired.
Maybe his political opponents weren't complaining in good faith. Maybe nothing would have satisfied them.
But the last two months will still weigh down any attempt by Trudeau to lay claim to those ideals. Trudeau must hope that giving voice to those ideals, and his pursuit of them, still count for something, even if he has not always fully embodied the ideal.
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