Former
New Brunswick premier Brian Gallant spent more than two hours
testifying at the legislature's public accounts committee on Tuesday. (Photo: Radio-Canada)
Former premier Brian Gallant came out swinging Tuesday in
defence of a controversial $22.8 million bailout package extended by his
government last year to the City of Saint John.
Gallant was testifying before the legislature's standing committee on public accounts.
The public hearings were scheduled after the release of Auditor General Kim MacPherson's June 11 report that zeroed in on the three-year financial assistance package, saying it represented "excessive risk" to provincial taxpayers
Her
report also noted the bailout package did not include targets and said
there was "no evidence of documented approval" by cabinet or by the
Department of Environment and Local Government.
In
her June report, Auditor General Kim MacPherson said a $22.8-million
bailout package by the Gallant government for the City of Saint John
represented 'excessive risk' to provincial taxpayers. (Michel Corriveau/Radio-Canada)
Gallant,
whose Liberal government was defeated in a Nov. 2 confidence vote in
the legislature, accused the current Progressive Conservative government
of interfering with a non-partisan process adopted to prevent
"devastating cuts" to municipal services in Saint John.
We're not financially sustainable and we didn't get here on our own.
- Don Darling, mayor of Saint John
"The
purpose of the new deal was to find time to find long-term solutions to
Saint John's challenges instead of seeing the city spiral," Gallant
said.
He seemed particularly upset with questions raised about
the legality of the process by which the package was approved for the
city.
Noting
the Blaine Higgs government will continue to meet the obligations of
the three-year deal, he challenged the Progressive Conservatives to
produce their own legal opinion on the matter.
"They
are continuing to move forward with the new deal, which means they must
believe it is in their legal authority to do so," he said.
Gallant
also said the standing committee should "compel" the Higgs government
to produce a pre-election draft of a report prepared by a working group
composed of provincial and city civil servants.
The working group has been looking into long-term municipal reforms that could help Saint John in the future.
Not an 'ideal situation'
Earlier,
the committee heard from Judy Wagner, former clerk of the executive
council, who said that the Saint John bailout was not an "ideal
situation," but that she had seen similar cases.
Gallant and Saint John Mayor Don Darling agreed to a three-year bailout package for the city. (Rachel Cave/CBC)
She
said it was not unusual for previous New Brunswick governments to
assist individual communities dealing with economic problems.
As an example, she used the closing of the CN locomotive shops in Moncton in the late 1980s.
Darling prepares to testify before about the $22.8 million financial aid package for the city. (Connell Smith/CBC)
The hearings opened with testimony from Saint John Mayor Don Darling, who told MLAs the city is facing a "bleak future."
He
said that in 2000, the city had the largest tax base in New Brunswick,
but now it is in third place, behind Moncton and Fredericton.
The
municipality needs property tax reform more than anything, he said,
claiming that over the past five years heavy industry has invested more
than a $1 billion in the city, while the assessed value of the
industrial tax class has dropped 3.6 per cent.
"We're not financially sustainable and we didn't get here on our own," Darling said.
The public hearings continue Wednesday with testimony from senior provincial and city civil servants.
65 Comments Commenting is now closed for this story.
David R. Amos "We're not financially sustainable and we didn't get here on our own."
Methinks the Saint John Mayor Don Darling doth protest too much N'esy Pas?
Lynda Dykeman Who
cares. I am glad we got a pay out. The rest of the Province cries about
Languages and gets/takes billions. I am all about Saint John getting
some. I don't care which party gave it to us.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @Lynda Dykeman: Leaving your language diatribe aside; I agree that Saint John needed this handout.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks you SANB dudes must be truly desperate indeed if you
are attempting to make some Anglo friends in Saint John N'esy Pas?
Mark (Junkman) George I don't see a "problem" here folks.
Good old Brian got the memo from his boss and did what he was toid.
It was either that or the boss would have to short a bank deposit in Bermuda.
Business NB style.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Mark (Junkman) George: YUP
Geoffrey
Estabrooks Why
does Gallant think that all of NB should pay to support St John when
their elected officials are responsible for the management of St Johns
business affairs? If there was a plan for St John to repay this bailout
and. if they had a plan in place to manage the problem, then a short
term solution could be negotiated. This problem has been building for
many years and there is no plan to fix the problem.
Rob
Franklin
Reply to @Geoffrey
Estabrooks: NB isn't supporting St John. It's supporting Saint John,
and that's what family does. If you truly want to have an opinion, at
least get the city right, and check into some facts about the whole
situation.
Jared
Henderson
Reply to @Rob
Franklin: gladly... Saint or St. John (not a big deal by the way we all
knew where he was talking about) has run themselves into the ground
giving corporations tax benefits etc...as such they miss out on a ton of
money that should go into the municipal governments coffers...instead
they jack rates on the normal people in the city to try to make up the
difference...it fails and the municipal government sits there wondering
why people keep leaving the city for Fredericton or Moncton or out
West...
They vote themselves pay raises (I have heard the tax argument) while
they fiddle and watch SAINT John fall apart...if they were accomplishing
something then yeah I could get on board with a pay raise as success
deserves acknowledgment...but these nincompoops don't help the city in
any way...Darling is one of the worst ones...front and center to virtue
signal on everything while doing absolutely nothing to actually help the
normal people of SAINT John...I feel for the people of the city...they
are being impoverished by the Provincial governments as well as their
municipally elected leaders...meanwhile the empire grows and enriches
itself...that's just the truth of it
Rob
Franklin
Reply to @Jared
Henderson: Pretty sure it's the province that sets the assessment
values, but hey. Let's blame Saint John. They're getting the dark end
of the stick from everyone anyway.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Jared
Henderson: Methinks the awful truth is that you cry too much then turn
around and attack the wrong dude N'esy Pas?
New
Brunswick Auditor General Kim MacPherson commended the standing
committee for holding the hearing so soon after she tabled her report
and said she felt it was a positive process. (CBC)
New Brunswick's auditor general says
nothing she heard during a two-day hearing by the legislature's public
accounts committee has changed her opinion about the former Gallant
government's controversial $22.8 million bailout package for the city of
Saint John.
Kim MacPherson, who was the final person to appear
before the committee Wednesday, said she stands by the conclusion of her
June report: that the agreement was rushed, did not go through the
normal approval process and constitutes "excessive risk" to provincial
taxpayers.
After listening to the testimony of the 16 other
witnesses, MacPherson said during her opening remarks to the standing
committee of MLAs that she's still "100 per cent confident" with her
findings.
"The
agreement did not include specific outcomes to be achieved, as of the
date of writing the report, which was April 2019. And has failed to
effectively address the city's challenges or mitigate inherent risk to
the province," she said.
"Should
the city and the province fail to address the current deficit situation
within the agreement's three-year time frame, the province will again
be faced with a serious financial problem in its second largest city."
Former
premier Brian Gallant committed to the three-year financial package for
Saint John in September 2017 after the city appealed for help dealing
with a budget crisis.
The Liberals targeted the region in the
2018 provincial election, hoping to pick up some seats.
MacPherson suggested the city was conscious of the timing of the
election and "leveraged" that timeline to push the province for the
bailout.
Most of those who fielded questions from the
committee Wednesday were senior civil servants who sat on a joint
city-provincial working group charged with coming up with long-term
solutions to Saint John's financial problems.
They appeared to
agree it was an unusual case and there was a rush to put the package
together. But that stemmed from the city's legal obligation to approve
its 2018 budget, and the only alternative for the city was drastic cuts
to services or much higher taxes, said Jordan O'Brien, former chief of
staff to the Office of the Premier.
'Sound public policy' decision
There was a real concern the city could default on its debt and a lot of pressure to help the city, he said.
But O'Brien said the motivation behind the agreement was financial, not political.
He
argued it was a "sound public policy" decision. The cuts being proposed
by the city would have "set in motion irreversible damage," and would
have made Saint John's default "inevitable," he said.
Senior
civil servants from New Brunswick and Saint John lined up before the
legislature's public accounts committee Wednesday to take questions from
MLAs about a three-year financial assistance package Saint John worked
out with the former Liberal government. (Connell Smith/CBC)
O'Brien
testified no laws were broken and suggested MacPherson might have
reached different conclusions if she had interviewed more people and
accepted additional records offered to her in April by the former
premier's office.
MacPherson said she used professional
judgment in deciding who to interview and made numerous requests for
information from five departments and the premier's office prior to
April.
At the end of the hearing Wednesday, the committee
decided to request copies from the Executive Council Office of all the
relevant documents between June 1, 2017 and June 31, 2019.
Recalls things differently
Earlier in the day, the working group's co-chair Joel Dickinson contradicted a key claim made Tuesday by Gallant.
The
former premier told MLAs a draft report on municipal reforms proposed
for the city was ready prior to the September 2018 provincial election.
No
party won a majority of seats in that election, and Gallant, after
trying and failing to win the confidence of the legislature, was
succeeded by Progressive Conservative Blaine Higgs.
"The
evolution of the working group's report is crucial evidence in this
matter," Gallant told the committee in demanding the new government
release the earlier document about Saint John.
"It was beyond
partisan politics for the Higgs government to criticize the new deal
without releasing the original draft report of the working group, which
represents the most important piece of the new deal."
But Dickinson testified the first draft of the report was written in December, after the election.
"There was no report," he responded when asked about an earlier draft
.
Insists there were proposals
Speaking
afterward, Jack Keir, an employee of the premier's office when Gallant
was in power, told CBC News a list of "opportunities, solutions, and
recommendations" had been forwarded in some form to the premier's office
prior to the election.
He said many of those recommendations are not reflected in the new report released by the Higgs government.
Earlier,
the city's finance commissioner, Kevin Fudge, told MLAs the
municipality faces significant service reductions and property tax
increases by 2022 if its problems cannot be resolved.
The city is seeking property tax reform, including changes to how taxes on heavy industry are dispersed.
It
is also seeking the ability to generate revenue on its own, along with
changes to the binding arbitration process used to reach collective
agreements with unions representing police and firefighters who are not
able to go on strike.
Daryl Doucette "Including
how taxes on heavy industry are dispersed"....I certainly hope that is a
typo error. It should read " Including how taxes on heavy industry are
WAY TOO LOW".
Maude Windsor
Reply to @daryl
doucette: you need to compare saint john industry taxation to the
taxation of bombardier and SNC lavalin in province of Quebec??? and why
i ask is saint john & Quebec refineries receiving tax subsidies and
$$$ transfer on the crude being imported ? why is Trudeau subsidizing
this dirty crude, extracted by non human, non environmentally
mined...the environmental terrible crude.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @maude windsor: open season on Francophones and their institutions, I see.
Marguerite Deschamps
If you tried it
against some other identifiable groups, I would be curious to see if
such a comment would see the light of day.
Daryl Doucette
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: ?? What are talking about here?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @daryl doucette: you and she know too well what I am talking about. Then again, I could be wrong about you.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks nobody is wrong about you SANB dudes N'esy Pas?
Bob Smith Jack Keir is speaking? I think NB folks with memories of his days in political office can recall how much that is worth.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Bob Smith: I do
Maude Windsor Saint
John is suffering from buget announcements never kept under a liberal
party government in Fredericton. facts include that liberal governments
in NB for decades have 'given' more money transfers from ottawa to the
Moncton areas of new brunswick. saint john has been given tax dollars
funded so little, and never. wake up saint johners,,,,you since 1750
have been the economic engine of new brunswick...saint john history is
of english,scots,irish,etc etc ...is a city where the Orange Order in NB
was founded. but population found ways to work together..many
inventions occurred in saint john. but saint john (and area) educated
youth have left saint john as more and more of new brunswick has fallen
to the terrible 'french/francophone' direction....where tax dollars in
by francophones are minute compared to tax dollars out....there is not
equalization for south new brunswick.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @maude
windsor: bitter, jealous and envious, aren't you? And there must not
have been too many Irish Catholics in that Orange Order of yours, eh?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @maude
windsor: furthermore, is it not ironic that real property is assessed
higher in Moncton than Saint John and therefore pay more real property
taxes. Is it not what the mayor of Saint John was complaining about?
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks you know how many Irish Catholics I sued in BeanTown
in 2002 and who the most famous one of all was N'esy Pas?
Johnny Horton
Reply to @David R. Amos:
And yet as usual you lost.
Tom Shultz Throwing money at Saint John won't solve the problem.
Saint John has a tremendous industrial base. These industrial
properties should be taxed appropriately; they should be taxed at the
same rate as comparable properties across Canada.
It's the "tax breaks" for industry and downloading on residential property owners which is causing hardship for the city.
People are fleeing the city for lower tax areas, property values remain
stagnant, and the unions keep asking for raises. This is not
sustainable.
David R. Amos Reply to @Tom Shultz: Methinks everybody knows that Even Gallant took a job in Toronto N'esy Pas?
Wally Manza Gallant
deceived the people of New Brunswick regarding his involvement in the
Francophone games. He is attempting to deceive the peoples legislative
accounts committee now.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Wally Manza: Methinks that is par for the course for a political lawyer N'esy Pas?
Stephen Long A most appropriate name for the city's finance commissioner, Kevin Fudge.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Stephen Long: True
Matt
Steele As
usual , Brian Gallant displaying his NARCISSISTIC personality , and
refusing to accept responsibility for his actions , and blaming everyone
else . Oh well , no doubt Dominic LeBlanc will make Gallant a Judge or
Senator any day now . Maybe Dominic LeBlanc can find a job for Jack Keir
as well on some taxpayer funded Board or Commission .
David R. Amos
Reply to @Matt
Steele: Methinks it takes one to know one perhaps you should look in the
mirror and play with your hair some more N'esy Pas?
Roy Kirk "Speaking
afterward, Jack Keir, . . . told CBC News a list of "opportunities,
solutions, and recommendations" had been forwarded in some form to the
premier's office prior to the election."
===
If he can provide the submission he should do so. Otherwise, it is just smoke.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Roy Kirk: YUP
William Reed Do
not bail out a city that has spent all its past social capital on
giving tax breaks to the Irvings. It really is as simple as that. It is
no wonder whatsoever they are in trouble.
Montana's
restaurant in Saint John sits in the Home Depot parking lot and is
assessed for taxes at $1.08 million. The Montana's restaurant in Moncton
is also next to the Home Depot and is assessed at $1.74 million. (Roger Cosman/CBC)
Saint John politicians struggling with shrinking budgets are
beginning to question whether provincial tax assessors might be part of
their problem — undervaluing multi-million-dollar properties in the city
and shortchanging the municipality on tax revenue.
Coun. Donna Reardon raised the issue at a city council meeting last week about properties in her uptown district.
She insists
Service New Brunswick — which is solely responsible for putting values
on land and buildings upon which city taxes are then collected —
routinely prices Saint John properties at a discount.
"I
believe it's undervalued," she said about Saint John's entire south end
peninsula, which includes part of the central business district
"I blame the province of New Brunswick that has undervalued and under-assessed the buildings."
One assessment that does raise questions in the city is Saint John's new courthouse.
Opened
in 2013, the building is valued for taxes at $41.9 million. That's $5.1
million less than Moncton's new courthouse, which is two years older
and 10 per cent smaller than the Saint John building, according to
original designs of each.
Saint
John's new courthouse is assessed for taxes by Service New Brunswick to
be worth $41.9 million. Moncton's new courthouse is two years older and
assessed to be worth $47 million. (Roger Cosman and Gilles Landry/CBC)
Every
$1 million in assessed value on a commercial or industrial property in
Saint John is worth $26,775 per year in municipal tax revenue and that
makes multi-million dollar differences in assessments a significant
issue.
Mayor
Don Darling says there is a general lack of trust among Saint John
residents in the reliability of assessments conducted by Service New
Brunswick.
"How can buildings either of the same size or larger
size in Saint John be valued at such a lower assessment than in
comparative cities like Moncton?" asked the mayor.
Mayor Don Darling said his confidence in the assessment process 'is very low.' (Roger Cosman/CBC)
"I would say our confidence level in the assessment process is very low."
In
addition to Saint John's courthouse, there are a number of commercial
properties in the city that also carry lower valuations than what appear
to be similar properties in Moncton.
For example Saint John and
Moncton have similar Home Depot outlets. Moncton's is assessed at more
than $10.8 million, $1.1 million more than Saint John's.
The
Home Depots in Saint John and Moncton are both more than a decade old.
Saint John's is assessed by Service New Brunswick to be worth $9.67
million. The Moncton store is assessed more than $1 million higher at
$10.83 million. (Roger Cosman and Gilles Landry/CBC)
In
addition, each of the Home Depots has a Montana's restaurant in its
parking lot. The Montana's in Moncton is assessed for taxes at $1.74
million, $660,000 more than the one in Saint John.
The cities share a number of similar hospitality properties as well.
The
Chateau Moncton, Best Western Plus and Hampton Inn in Moncton feature a
combined 306 rooms and as a group are assessed to be worth $21.5
million.
The
Chateau Moncton hotel advertises 103 rooms and is assessed by Service
NB to be worth $7 million. The Chateau Saint John advertises 112 rooms
but is assessed for taxes to be worth $5 million. (Roger Cosman and Gilles Landry/CBC)
By
contrast, the Chateau Saint John, Best Western Plus and Hampton Inn in
Saint John, which also advertise a total of 306 rooms, are assessed at a
combined $14.7 million, $6.8 million less.
Individual property
assessments can involve several factors and last week a spokesperson for
Service NB said the agency could not respond immediately to questions
about why similar buildings in Saint John and Moncton might be valued
differently.
Moncton's
Best Western Plus has 80 rooms and is assessed by Service New Brunswick
to be worth $5.4 million. That's 47 per cent more than the Best Western
Plus in Saint John, which advertises 77 rooms. It's assessed to be
worth $3.6 million. (Roger Cosman and Gilles Landry/CBC)
But
in Saint John, politicians are openly suspicious of how Service NB
treats the city, a wariness sharpened after the agency's handling of
Saint John's LNG terminal.
In 2016, as Saint John was deciding
to end a multi-million dollar municipal tax concession to the terminal,
Service NB commissioned a study of the property by a U.S. consultant
often used by energy companies to fight high tax levies.
Based
on the consultant's report, Service NB cut its own estimated valuation
of the LNG property from $300 million to $98 million on the eve of the
date that full property taxes would have applied to the facility.
The
revision cost Saint John and saved Irving Oil Ltd. — the owner of the
land the terminal sits on — more than $5 million per year in property
taxes. The episode lingers as a sore point with city leaders, according
to Reardon.
"Absolutely," she said.
"I feel like they throw a dart at a dart board and come up with a number."
I think we need to know and understand how the assessment practices are working. We have to have confidence in those.
- Mayor Don Darling
Assessments are an issue between individual property owners and Service NB.
There
is no mechanism in legislation for a municipality to challenge
valuations even if it feels they might be costing it tax revenue.
At
public budget meetings being held in Saint John this summer, Coun.
David Merrithew, the head of city council's finance committee, has
questioned several Service NB assessments of city industrial properties
and sarcastically referred to the "magic" Service NB uses to arrive at
its valuations.
Darling said there may be good reasons some
properties in Saint John are worth less than similar properties
elsewhere, but he would like to have it explained in detail.
"Folks have concerns and it is about confidence," he said.
"I think we need to know and understand how the assessment practices are working. We have to have confidence in those."
109 Comments Commenting is now closed for this story.
David R. Amos Methinks everybody is just following the Irving Clan's orders as usual N'esy Pas?
As soon as I read these two bullshit comments I decided to post many more replies
David R.
Amos Methinks
some old folks may recall my Father battling the Irving Clan about
their property taxes in Saint John 50 YEARS AGO N'esy Pas?
Noah Hathaway
Reply to @David R.
Amos: Me thinks one comment was enough. literally every second one down
the list here is you with the exact same comment. Get over yourself.
David R.
Amos
Reply to @Noah Hathaway: Methinks you work for the Irving Clan N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos Methinks
the Irving Clan and many lawyers recall what I did within the NEB Emera
Pipeline matter in Saint John while running in Saint John Harbour in
the 2006 provincial election N'esy Pas?
Jared Henderson
Reply to @David R.
Amos: dude, none of us do...just dropping phantom hints about something
you did in the past doesn't help anyone else know what in the blue
blazes you're talking about...and no I am not looking it up lol just
letting you know where you're missing your audience
David R. Amos
Reply to @Jared Henderson: Methinks you forgot to ask if I cared what my critics think N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos "Mayor
Don Darling says there is a general lack of trust among Saint John
residents in the reliability of assessments conducted by Service New
Brunswick."
Methinks its rather obvious as to why that is N'esy Pas?
"But in Saint John, politicians are openly suspicious of how Service NB
treats the city, a wariness sharpened after the agency's handling of
Saint John's LNG terminal.
In 2016, as Saint John was deciding to end a multi-million dollar
municipal tax concession to the terminal, Service NB commissioned a
study of the property by a U.S. consultant often used by energy
companies to fight high tax levies.
Based on the consultant's report, Service NB cut its own estimated
valuation of the LNG property from $300 million to $98 million on the
eve of the date that full property taxes would have applied to the
facility.
The revision cost Saint John and saved Irving Oil Ltd. — the owner of
the land the terminal sits on — more than $5 million per year in
property taxes. The episode lingers as a sore point with city leaders,
according to Reardon."
Buddy Best the
Tim Horton's on Bayside pays more taxes on that little corner lot the
Irving does for the entire rail line storage area that stretches miles
and pollutes daily under pressure.
Daryl Doucette
Reply to @Buddy Best:
Yup. How SICKENING is that? They must sit back in their Ivory Towers
in Bermuda and else where and laugh at us peasants whom pay so much
tax ....and the sad part is the politicians are either too scared or
corrupted to fix this mess.
David R. Amos
Reply to @daryl doucette: Oh So True
Gary MacKay Personally
I struggle to understand why we tax the buildings we, the tax payers
already own. If I tax the Hospital it takes money away from the health
system and goes to general revenue to be shared across the province. We
than need to pay more personal income tax to make up for the cost of the
property tax on what we already own.
The system is broken and until we pay taxes for services I doubt it will be fixed.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Gary MacKay: "Personally I struggle to understand why we tax the buildings we, the tax payers already own."
Me Too
Rod McLeod Duh.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Rod McLeod: Well put
Shawn Tabor Interesting
article and there should be a part 2 and 3, to this article, might be
or develop into a great batch, knowledge for most folks. Keep going with
this. LOL
David R. Amos
Reply to @Shawn Tabor: Methinks you know I am like a dog with a bone N'esy Pas?
Daryl Doucette Tax
the Irving Oil refinery at the same rate as other refineries in Canada.
That should bring in about $ 50 million more a year in taxes just on
that one assessment. Then charge the Irvings and other forestry
companies $30 million more for softwood being shipped across the
border. That would erase the USA tariff being charged on OUR CROWN WOOD
at the border Better off in our coffers than the americans. There. With 2
simple swipes of a pen the government could raise $ 80 million in extra
taxes. Quit comparing a restaurant to a restaurant assessment and go
after the big dollars.
Daryl Doucette Reply
to @David Peters: I'm sharpening my chain saw as we speak! David Peters
for premier! Why cant I go up on crown land, cut a bunch of trees down
and sell them to a mill, or folks for firewood?
David R. Amos
Reply to @daryl
doucette: Methink you overlooked the fact that all common sense is
ignored immediately after the politicians and their cohorts swear an
oath to the Crown N'esy Pas?
Brian Robertson
The
Provincial and Federal governments have had their thumb on the scale to
favor Moncton ever since the closure of the CN Shops.
Neither could accept the decline of their bilingual model community, so
where ever possible, decisions were slanted, playing fields tited and
stimulus money flooded in.
This article just touches the tip of the iceberg.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Brian Robertson: YUP
James
Risdon
Saint
John's mayor and council want businesses and residents to pay more in
property taxes but want to avoid the political backlash that would come
with hiking the tax rate. So they're trying to pass the buck onto the
provincial government.
I can't see it working as a gambit. The province certainly isn't going
to let itself be painted as the bad guy for Saint John's convenience and
it's unlikely business owners and residents would be thrilled at higher
property tax bills either.
The bottom line is this: Either cut costs, boost the economy to bring in
more businesses and residents to grow the tax base, or just hike the
tax rate and accept the political backlash.
Mr. Mayor and members of council, those are your only choices. You can't
reasonably put the blame for a soft real estate market at the feet of
the Province of New Brunswick.
Fred Brewer
Reply to @James
Risdon: No. The bottom line and answer to all of our property tax
problems is to simply get the Irvings to pay their fair share. They
should be taxed the same as any other industry right across Canada.
Currently they pay a fraction of what any other province charges for the
same industry. It's not fair and it needs to end now.
James
Risdon
Reply to @Fred Brewer:
Making the Irvings pay more would fall in the third category I
mentioned: hiking the tax rate. And it's not going to happen.
Here's why. The Irvings don't have to pay more in taxes. They control
so much of the economy, particularly in the Saint John area, that the
province and city cannot afford to have them pick up and leave. It would
be economic and political suicide.
In other provinces, individual companies do not control such a large
share of the economy. But New Brunswick is so small and has done such a
poor job of diversifying its economy that the Irvings wield enormous
clout.
I'm not suggesting that's a good thing. While I applaud the Irvings for
their successes in business, I would prefer if New Brunswick had a much
more diversified and growing economy. This needs to be the top priority
of the Province of New Brunswick and its municipalities because it is
the area where this region most lags behind other regions of the
country.
With a more diversified economy, the influence wielded by the Irvings,
while still considerable, would not be such an over-riding concern and
you would have your more level, fairer playing field.
Buddy Best
Reply to @James
Risdon: " It would be economic and political suicide. ". There is that
fear factor. Most powerful motivation tool on the planet. Ninety nine %
of what we fear never come about. If they did leave it would not be over
night and as they left the void would create opportunity for others
more community minded perhaps but at the very least a diverse economy
not held by the neck by the empire. If Irving could do better elsewhere
they would be else where. Like I have said many times before. I am
willing to help them pack. That offer is open ended. Pay up or get
out!!!
James
Risdon
Reply to @Buddy Best:
Even if 99 per cent of what we fear never happens, I would never throw
caution to the winds, open the door of an airplane, and jump from 10,000
feet without a parachute. There are fears - and then there are fears.
When a long-established group of businesses held by a local family has
provided jobs and economic return to this province for so many years, it
could reasonably be seen as foolhardy for New Brunswickers to bite the
hand that feeds them.
The net worth of the Irvings themselves has been estimated at roughly
$7.5 billion. To put that into perspective, that's about 20 per cent of
the entire gross domestic product of the province.
That's not a flight of capital New Brunswickers would want to see
disappear, particularly since its effect would be greatly multiplied by
the loss of jobs and the consumer consumption that comes with them and
the business consumption of the Irvings' many businesses.
Maybe you're right. Maybe someone else would just step in and offer the same business services and jobs.
Maybe not. If I were a very rich investor or entrepreneur and I saw the
Irvings get so disgusted with New Brunswick as to pick up and leave, I'd
really have to think twice before putting my money into such a hostile
business environment.
A vote of non-confidence in the economy of our province by the Irvings,
if ever it came, would have a devastating impact on business confidence
in New Brunswick.
David R. Amos
Reply to @James
Risdon: Methinks you forgot where your Irving buddies made most of their
billions and how little taxes they pay on their gains and their assets
N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos
Reply to @Fred Brewer: I Wholeheartedly Agree Sir
Noah Hathaway It
doesn't much thought to realize why property values are higher in
Moncton in general. They are comparing properties in two different
cities with very different geographies. Chateau Moncton for example is a
waterfront property that is located in the city center. Chateau Saint
John is located in a mostly residential area, nowhere close to uptown.
Basically this whole article is like complaining that Hamilton
properties aren't being valued the same as similar properties in
downtown Toronto.
Buddy Best
Reply to @Noah Hathaway: Toronto properties are the lowest in Ont. Poor example.
Reply to @Noah
Hathaway: Waterfront? You have to be joking. Yes it borders on an ugly,
muddy stream but that should be a detriment, not a plus.
Fred
Brewer
Reply to @Buddy Best:
Thanks. Good research. Clearly the City of Saint John is taxing the
daylights out of the little guys because they don't have the stones to
tax the big guys.
Donald Smith
Reply to @Buddy Best: Good one Buddy [ lol ] That's just because Saint John is the Greatest Little City in the East :>)
Buddy Best
Reply to @Donald Smith: Poor Elsie really believed that. LOL
David R. Amos
Reply to @Fred
Brewer: "Thanks. Good research. Clearly the City of Saint John is taxing
the daylights out of the little guys because they don't have the stones
to tax the big guys."
I concur
Matt
Steele As
others have mentioned ; Moncton is in growth mode , and Saint John is
dying ; therefore Moncton's properties are valued higher . People are
moving to Moncton , and their population is growing ; whereas the
population of Saint John is decreasing as people vote with their feet ,
and move out of the city . Mayor Don Darling and City Council seem to
like to blame everyone else for Saint John's problems , but the real
problem has been successive City Mayors and Councils who have mismanaged
the city ; and have driven many people out of Saint John , and into the
KV and Grand Bay areas .
Buddy Best
Reply to @Matt
Steele: Some good points but the highest tax rate in the country with
nothing in return is not a recipe for success.That while the Irvings Rob
us blind. Metaphorically speaking of course.
Greg
Miller
Reply to @Buddy Best:
The highest tax rate I ever experienced was in Ottawa--twice what it
was in Calgary (approximate same population etc.) at the time. If
you're accurate in what you say--that Saint John has the highest tax
rate in the Country then the situation is truly laughable and sad at the
same time!
Fred
Brewer
Reply to @Matt
Steele: I guess you missed the recent article where it said SJ growth
outpaced Moncton just last year. SJ provides the government with $45
million in annual property tax and do you know how much of that SJ gets
back in the form of grants? Only $17 million. So SJ is subsidizing a lot
of other cities, towns and villages.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Greg
Miller: "If you're accurate in what you say--that Saint John has the
highest tax rate in the Country then the situation is truly laughable
and sad at the same time! "
Welcome to the Circus
Jason Inness I
think it is time to get rid of assessments altogether. This is an
antiquated method of taxing property. It goes back to the middle ages
where property owners were taxed based on the value of their properties,
which in turn was based on how much money a property could generate in a
year from the resources on the land. This was almost a form of income
taxes (which we have now), Also, residential properties are not
generating any income (OK, so some people sell crafts from their homes,
but that is not the same as an oil refinery), so it really doesn't even
make sense to assign a value when understanding this context.
James Risdon
Reply to @Reply
to @Jason Inness: Land values most definitely change over time. In
Vancouver, property has more than triple in the past 20 years. In the
United States, the housing bubble burst a few years back and resulted in
a massive loss in home equity across the country.
Under the system you propose, the property tax system would be
completely arbitrary and not reflect the value of property to the owner
at all. It's a system that would completely destabilize the housing
market and would throw many businesses under the bus with wild tax bill
hikes in some cases and huge tax breaks in others.
It's simply untrue that property tax assessments are not at all
correlated to property values. The two are not the same. I acknowledge
that. But it is not at all true that property assessments across Canada
are the same now as they were in the 1960s. As property values have gone
up, so have property assessments. There are several formulas to
determine the assessed value of a commercial building. It's resale value
is one factor but not the only one.
Currrently, the property tax system is a nice balance between power
given to the provincial property assessment people who evaluate the
building and land's value based in part on market value and the power
given to municipal tax officials who get to determine the tax rate in
order to rake in enough money to keep the local government funded.
I would never support a system that gave all the power to municipal
politicians and am particularly terrified of a system that would see all
the aspects of property tax bills determined arbitrarily. That is a
truly horrific prospect for anyone who owns property and who has dealt
with any municipal government.
David R. Amos
Reply to @James Risdon: Methinks John Collin knows a well as I what a joke this is N'esy Pas?
Deborah McCormack Interesting comments however. I do question the process when it comes to Industrial assessments and Provincial buildings
Would really like to know The methodology and the justification for the significant differences example Courthouse buildings ?
James Risdon
Reply to @Deborah McCormack : There are many things which affect the value of a building.
In addition to the realtor's mantra of "location, location, location",
there is also the quality of the materials used, the aesthetic appeal of
the property, its size, the capacity of the building to be used in a
way to make money and cut unnecessary costs, its energy efficiency, its
heritage or cultural significance, its durability and soundness as
determined by engineers, etc.
This idea that a building can simply be compared with another similar building in a different location is absurd.
In Vancouver, my house would be worth millions. In Bathurst, New Brunswick, not so much.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Deborah McCormack : Methinks they tax the courthouses etc in order to subsidize the cities N'esy Pas?
Laurie Clark Considering
the smell in Saint John, there is no reason that property values would
not be lower! A building in Saint John is simply NOT worth as much as
one in Moncton.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Laurie Clark: True
Graeme
Scott Moncton
has out performed Saint John in recent years in terms of population
growth and economic activity. That could explain some of the differences
in the value of commercial property but perhaps not all.
In the case of the LNG terminal I do find it suspicious that Service NB
chose to retain a consultant that specializes in getting LOWER
assessments for clients to advise them.
Jared
Henderson
Reply to @Graeme
Scott: SNB similarly to the government are in the Corporations
pockets...jobs must be bought in (yes I meant to say bought) this is
what a corporatocracy (I know I misspelled it) looks like...residents
pay for the businesses AND the governments frivolous
spending...meanwhile the businesses take the money put it in the bank
account pay NB'ers some measly little hourly wage with no protection and
leave as soon as they feel like they have put in enough time or the
money isn't enough for them anymore...taking that money and those jobs
right back out of province...it's just sad...NB needs to make a
transition to a small business economy and tell all of these corporate
leeches to get out of the province if they don't like putting in their
fair share...take those corporate hand-outs and start a real small
business fund to help New Brunswickers start and grow their own small
businesses...heaven knows Irving, McCain, Scholten and co. don't need
the handouts anymore
David R. Amos
Reply to @Jared
Henderson: "dude, none of us do...just dropping phantom hints about
something you did in the past doesn't help anyone else know what in the
blue blazes you're talking about...and no I am not looking it up lol
just letting you know where you're missing your audience "
Methinks you would not have attacked me if you had bothered to witness
at least one of my debates with my political foes during six elections
thus far N'esy Pas?
Geoff Cross When
targeting property assessments, resale values have to be considered as
well as land and construction costs. Given 2 identical restaurants in
the same province, the construction costs should be very close. Land
valuation would be the only variable. If an acre of commercial land in
Saint John is 100,000 less than Moncton (not likely) then you can
justify that kind of discrepancy. As for the terminal; Irving’s. The
family that have never paid personal taxes in Canada (off shore
residency) certainly wouldn’t hesitate to rip off the citizens of N.B by
getting their commercial properties undervalued.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Geoff Cross: I agree
Johnny
Jakobs I've
been wondering/arguing with ServiceNB about tax assessments for awhile.
Assessments/appraisals are someone's opinion. That's it. There is a
guideline of criteria to follow... but it's still someone's opinion.
It's a scam. Pay taxes to the Crown... the business entity for the Queen.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Johnny
Jakobs: Methinks it was more than merely interesting that the Crown
sought the opinion of Yankees as to how much to assess the LNG property
N'esy Pas?
Brian
Corbett These
are two different cities. Of course the values will be different. Some
people would prefer a city like Moncton over Saint John for a variety
of reasons. Would this have anything to do with land value? I would
think so.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Brian
Corbett: Methinks your preference for Moncton likely has more to do with
the favours bestowed on the SANB people N'esy Pas?
Lauchlin
Murray
This
is a completely unfair and absurd comparison! Simply selecting similar
properties by physical appearance is by no means the most significant
factor when appraising real estate. More important factors are demand,
future use 'utility', supply ('scarcity'), bureaucracy and costs
associated with property transers. There are many others. This story is
like comparing two chickens! One properly cooked on a dinner plate and
one roadkill in the middle of a highway! Just consider demand - at its
basic level (we don't have space for a proper evaluation here) - between
2007 and 2017 Moncton's population increased by over 16 per cent,
while Saint John increased by only 2.4 per cent. Moncton's increase was
seven times larger than Saint John! If anyone thinks that doesn't
affect market demand prices - please tell me why not! Just posting a
picture of one chicken in Moncton and the picture of another in Saint
John is not an intelligent way to decide fair appraisal! I suppose Mr
Jones would have us believe the price of a car in Venice should be the
same as Toronto. What are the profits of the restaurant in Moncton
compared to Saint John? The hotels' profits? Those don't affect
appraisal values?
Robert
Buck
Reply to @Lauchlin
Murray: I do not believe profits have anything to do with it. If it di
then I could say I make less money than my neighbour therefor my
assessement should be lower. SNB does not look at the financial books
of businesses to decide on a value of property.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Robert
Buck:Methinks many would agree that the sneaky dudes in SNB ask their
political bosses how to decide on a value of property N'esy Pas?
Axel Roosevelt
There's
no real question here. Saint John is a wretched dunghole in decline
whose best years are nearly a century in the past, while Moncton is on
the grow if only because of the mass transfer of the entire province's
Francophone population under 40 since 2000.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Axel Roosevelt: ... which is a positive for Moncton; something that cannot be denied.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks the SANB may wish to rejoice that they pay more
taxes than the folks in Saint John do but the Irving Clan should at
least pay their fair share N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @David R. Amos: yup, contrary to what is being vehiculated here all the time; Francophones do pay their fair share.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Nope Methinks everybody knows Moncton's tax rate is lower than Saint John's N'esy Pas?
Mark Daniel Miller
What?! No one blaming the Irvings yet?
Fred
Brewer
Reply to @Mark Daniel Miller:
Ok, but just remember, you asked for it. Nobody wants to live in Saint
John due to the pollution and noise from Irving's mills and refinery and
that is reflected in the lower assessment values of properties.
John Valcourt
Reply to @Fred
Brewer: and the lower assessment of the values of irving properties.
there is something not right in those assessments either.
Noah Hathaway
Reply to @Fred Brewer: I'm not the only one who's referred to Saint John as "Stink John" .
David R. Amos
Reply to @Noah Hathaway: Methinks you sure know how to win friends and influence people N'esy Pas?
Buddy Best
Reply to @Mark Daniel Miller: You have obviously just skimmed over the comments. Bottom Line is this is 99.9% Irving policy.
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @David R. Amos: which is why you get so many votes at elections.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks you SANB dudes know as well as I why I put my name
on the ballots and it has nothing to do with soliciting votes N'esy Pas?
Marguerite
Deschamps
Reply to @David R. Amos: we know; you're an attention seeker.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marguerite
Deschamps: Methinks everybody knows that is what you do on behalf of the
liberals and the SANB and I am the guy nobody talks about who loves to
sue your lawyer buddies N'esy Pas?
Saint John mayor defends deal to assist QMJHL's Sea Dogs
Council vote comes on the heels of Sea Dogs and the Harbour Station Commission signing a new five-year lease
CBC News ·
The Saint John Sea Dogs will receive as much as $112,500 from the City of Saint John over five years. (Vincent Ethier/QMJHL)
Saint
John Mayor Don Darling is defending a deal that saw the cash-strapped
city give the privately owned Sea Dogs of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey
League more than $100,000 to be paid out over five years.
Darling says with the team threatening to leave the city, there was a strong argument for making the investment.
"At
the end of the day, if the Sea Dogs organization weren't in Saint John
anymore, there'd be jobs impacts, there'd be an economic impact that's
estimated at a million to a million-and-a-half dollars a year," he said.
Harbour
Station, which already has annual deficits of roughly $600,000 to
$800,000 would lose its "major tenant" and about 40 events a year.
"You
know council and I take every dollar council directs very seriously and
we weigh the pros and cons and I'm convinced that the pros outweigh the
cons in this particular case," said Darling.
He
said he called restaurant, bar and hotel owners in the city. He heard
from them that it wasn't worth the risk to lose the team.
"The majority of council decided that this was a good decision for the community," he said
Darling
compared Harbour Station to Moncton's newer Avenir Centre, which has
booked shows like Keith Urban and Jack White, while Harbour Station had
to cancel three big shows because ticket sales weren't strong enough.
Mayor Don Darling said there was a strong argument for making the investment to keep the Sea Dogs in Saint John. (Roger Cosman/CBC)
"We have a community up the road that has a bigger, new [venue]. As we know it's getting the majority of the large music acts."
Darling said having a large arena in the city improves quality of life, and is a way to attract people to Saint John.
"The future of Harbour Station is far more bleak without a major tenant," Darling said.
Lease details secret
Council's vote comes on the heels of the Sea Dogs and the Harbour Station Commission signing a new five-year lease.
The details of the lease haven't been released to the public.
Darling
said the city became involved after negotiations broke down between the
Sea Dogs and the Harbour Station Commission, the arms-length agency
that runs the arena.
Council
did not even review the lease before voting on the payments, which Ward
1 Coun. Greg Norton said "lacked considerably in transparency."
Details of the renewed lease between the team and the Harbour Station Commission haven't been released to the public.
Darling
defended the decision, saying if there was a problem with the lease
then neither the Harbour Station Commission nor the Sea Dogs would have
signed.
Earlier
this week, Sea Dogs president and general manager Trevor Georgie told
CBC News the team has been losing "hundreds of thousands of dollars"
over the past few years and even with the new money from the city, it
will continue to do so.
"Despite
the losses, our owner is prepared to fund them because he's a proud New
Brunswicker and he loves his hockey," Georgie said.
National
Citizens Alliance Leader Stephen Garvey, wearing the red shirt, had
only one supporter with him as he faced down a group of vocal protesters
in Saint John. (Shane Fowler/CBC)
A controversial federal political party got less than a warm welcome in Saint John on Friday.
Two
members of the National Citizens Alliance were greeted by about 40
protesters, including Mayor Don Darling, during a lunch-hour forum in
front of City Hall.
About
15 police officers stood watch as the protesters toted signs bearing
slogans, such as "NCA Go Away," and "In Saint John We Love Our
Newcomers," and chanted, "Off our streets Nazi scum."
Party
leader Stephen Garvey, armed with a bullhorn, fired back. "Read our
policies," he shouted over the protesters, who blew whistles in an
attempt to drown him out. "The silent majority in Canada are about to
wake up."
The National Citizens Alliance, which is based in
Calgary, became a registered federal party in January, according to
Elections Canada.
The
Alliance is calling for a drastic reduction in immigrants to Canada and
rescinding the Multiculturalism Act and it opposes hate speech laws and
anti-Islamophobia policies. The party also believes climate change is a
hoax.
Earlier in the day, the mayor took to social media to denounce the party.
"I
want folks to know, that the city has nothing to do with this group,"
he posted on Twitter. "Their hate filled views are disgusting and I
don't want them in our city.
"They serve only to fuel divisive views and hatred. Worse is this political party actually play to these views for votes."
Saint
John Mayor Don Darling was front and centre at the protest against the
National Citizens Alliance on Friday, carrying a sign with the slogan,
'Love Not Hate Makes Canada Great.' (Shane Fowler/CBC)
The
party's forum was originally planned for the Royal Canadian Legion's
Lancaster Branch 69 but was moved to City Hall after the legion
cancelled the booking, according to Garvey.
Forums slated for
the qplex in Quispamsis Friday evening and at the Golden Jubilee Hall in
Sussex on Saturday are expected to proceed as scheduled, unless they
get another call, he said.
Some Quispamsis residents have
expressed concerns about the group using the town's arena and called for
it to be cancelled, but Mayor Gary Clark said the booking of the
Moosehead Breweries Conference Centre would stand.
"I personally
do not agree with their views but feel it is important that we uphold
rights given by Legislation in our Province," he posted on the town's
Facebook page
CBC News New Brunswick
More protesters than party members show up for Saint John political rally
Two National Citizens
Alliance members were confronted by 40 protesters with signs and
whistles condemning the party's call for a drastic reduction in
immigration. 1:10
The New Brunswick Human Rights Act
states: "No person, directly or indirectly, alone or with another, by
himself, herself or itself or by the interposition of another, shall,
based on a prohibited ground of discrimination,
a) deny to any person or class of person any accommodation, services or facilities available to the public, or
b)
discriminate against any person or class of persons with respect to any
accommodation, services or facilities available to the public.
"In this case their recognition as a federal political party we believe is protected under the act," wrote Clark.
"Canada
and New Brunswick take very seriously the right to free speech and the
protection of rights for all Canadians. The Town of Quispamsis has a
duty to protect those rights as well, even if we do not agree with the
group's political views."
About 40 protesters greeted the National Citizens Alliance at Saint John City Hall. (Shane Fowler/CBC)
He stressed that the town and Moosehead Breweries have no affiliation with the party and that it's a private booking.
If anyone chooses to continue to voice concerns, Clark urged them to do so in a "respectful and peaceful manner."
Several of the Saint John protesters yelled, "See you tonight at the qplex," as they left around 1 p.m.
43 Comments Commenting is now closed for this story.
David R. Amos
For
the record I have never heard of these dudes and I certainly agree with
Mayor Gary Clark and not the Mindless Don Darling. Whereas the nasty
Conservative Madame Bell decided to tease me about this politcal party
methinks her buddy the aptly named lawyer Rob Moore and I should talk to
them later today in Sussex N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell
Reply to @David R. Amos: This guy had one less supporter than you had when you ran !
Lou Bell
Wow, look at all the supporters. Even Amos could beat this party !
David R. Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Shame on you Lourdes Methinks you likely laughed when you heard I was
illegally forced to eat your food at the DECH N'esy Pas?
Alexander Forbes
Amazing
how the left always just tries to drown out the opposition instead of
actually trying to converse with them. Even if the protesters are right,
you won't get people to see your point of view yelling at them.
SarahRose Werner
Content Disabled
David R. Amos
Reply
to @SarahRose Werner: Methinks protesting often defeats its intended
purpose and this article is a fine example by making a fool out Don
Darling and his cohorts and the people they are protesting better known
N'esy Pas?
Josef Blow
Content Disabled
Alexander Forbes
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Unless it's a quiet protest that wouldn't convince me to join their side.
Alexander Forbes
Reply to @Josef Blow: Yelling at people and drowning them out is exactly what tbey were doing. Try literacy...it does wonders.
Lou Bell These
guys draw about the same numbers as Trump ! Or at least from the
numbers they'll probably post ! Wonder how many zeros they'll add TO
THAT ONE SUPPORTER ????
Dan Lee
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Prabably same amount of zeros as PANB meetin last week
Lou Bell
Reply to @Dan Lee: Marc ? Where's Marc uerite ?
Lou Bell
Reply to @Dan Lee: Liberals / SANB have you and Marc uerite !
Josef Blow
Reply to @Lou Bell: I wonder if booze is not at play with you ?
David R. Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Josef Blow: Methinks many think the same of you N'esy Pas?
Dan Lee
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Nahhh....not a Marc or a uerite.....hmmmm more like a hood.....
Lou Bell A meeting of these people ? Like a flea on an Elephants --s !!
Dan Lee
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Ohhh....i thought it was about PANB.........
Lou Bell
Reply to @Dan Lee: Naw, it's the last two Anglophone Liberals !
Josef Blow
Reply to @Lou Bell: Get over yourself Lou Bell. A broken record you are.
David R. Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Josef Blow: Methinks you should get over yourself At least Lou has a real name N'esy Pas?
Matt Steele If
protesters were not there drawing a crowd , then most Saint Johner's
would not even know that they were in town . Having protests , drawing a
crowd , and getting attention from the press ; just gives these groups
credibility . The best way to handle people who want attention is to
ignore them , and they will go away when they can't get an audience .
David R. Amos
Reply to @Matt Steele: Methinks that is the logic you use to ignore me N'esy Pas?
Donald Gallant And the protesters are members of what political party ?
Surely that should have been mentioned in the article by BJM.
SarahRose Werner
Reply to @Donald Gallant: Why? It's not relevant.
David R. Amos
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Yes it is
Lou Bell Perhaps Liberals / SANB could recruit these two. Maybe one could replace the Security Guard when he's defeated .
David R. Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Methinks you and Kevin Vickers both know that your buddy Richard Bell
ran two elections for you Conservatives in NB and after I ran in Fat
Fred City against Andy Scott another dude who went to High School with
your hubby and I Bell was the first Judge Harper ever appointed N'esy
Pas?
Dan Lee
Reply to @Lou Bell
TSK TSK...your failing Lou......you need new stuff.......
Lou Bell
Reply to @Dan Lee:
With Liberals/ SANB stifled , all we get now is how many times they're
gettin' caught with their hands in the cookie jars ! And NO RESPONSES !!
Looks like the cat got Gallant / Melanson / all the other SANB run
Caucus members tongues ! Even the Security Guard is MUM !!!
Jade Smith Bah
don't take CBC's word for anything. Check out their videos on YouTube
then judge for yourself. The main message I got was Canadians and Canada
first.
Mark (Junkman) George
Reply to @Jade Smith:
OH! Say it isn't so. Are you suggesting that the "Canada's trusted news source" is trying to sell a specific agenda?
The ABCs of Saint John: New city manager to review agencies, boards, commissions
More than 30 groups oversee city's services and facilities, handle 'tens of millions' of dollars
CBC News ·
The Canada Games Aquatic Centre's oversight body will be part of the review.
Saint John's new city manager is undertaking a review of the
agencies, boards and commissions to improve their operations and find
ways to save money.
There are more than 30 such groups that
oversee the city's facilities and services, such as Harbour Station, the
Aquatic Centre, police services and transit — all at arms length from
the city, said Mayor Don Darling.
And "tens of millions" of dollars flow through them.
"I
think we have an obligation as council … to ensure we have the best
practices in place and that we can get the best results," he said.
Darling said "micro" reviews have been done in the past, but nothing as comprehensive as what John Collin has planned.
John
Collin, who was appointed Saint John city manager in January, is
juggling several strategic projects, said Mayor Don Darling, noting the
city is a $250-million corporation with $2.7 billion in assets. (City of Saint John)
Collin, who has been on the job since January, will spend the next five or six months on the project.
"I think everything is on the table," said Darling, adding that includes possible mergers.
"This
is about driving maximum value for taxpayers and you cannot be talking
about sustainability moving forward without having everything you do be
looked at through that lens, again, of growth, our financial
performances and lastly, through municipal reforms."
Darling expects Collin will focus on the groups that have the biggest financial implications, such as the Aquatic Centre.
"If
things are going well, we're investing — or another way to say it,
we're losing $500,000 a year. If things are going poorly, we're losing
a million dollars a year," he stressed.
Darling said some of the governance models are decades old. (CBC)
Darling
said he has some of his own ideas about where costs can be trimmed and
the Fundy Region Service Commission, which costs the city about $70,000 a
year, is top of mind.
"That
would be an example where, why would we continue to invest money on
behalf of the taxpayers when … the mandate's not being met and there
doesn't seem to be a willingness to meet the mandate?"
Similarly, he hopes Collin will take a closer look at the governance model of the Aquatic Centre, which continues to struggle.
Information Morning - Saint John
The city's review of agencies, boards and commissions
00:0008:04
Saint John Mayor Don Darling. 8:04
It's
not an attack on the members of the various agencies, boards and
commissions, said Darling, noting many are volunteer positions while
others are paid nominal fees. Police commission members, for example,
get paid $100 per meeting.
"The world we're working in is changing very rapidly, so do we have the right framework and the right support?" he said.
"And
within this governance review the boards themselves might say, 'Hey
City of Saint John, you're encumbering us.' So it's a two-way street."
Collin's findings will be made public and discussed at council, said Darling.
CBC News New Brunswick
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