Friday 16 October 2020

High lumber prices not trickling down, say woodlot owners

https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies



Replying to   @alllibertynews and 49 others  
Yea Right
Jos Allaire aka Maggy of the SANB
More money in the province's coffers! Not. Most being funneled in tax havens. The golden rule, the one with the gold makes the rules. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/ag-lumber-market-system-1.5769858


'Significant improvements' in province's lumber market system, says auditor general

 

Jacques Poitras · CBC News · Posted: Oct 20, 2020 5:50 PM AT

 


The report released Tuesday says the province now has a better system for accurately calculating sales to mills from private woodlots, a benchmark that helps set royalties paid for timber from publicly owned Crown lands. (CBC)

Auditor General Kim Adair-MacPherson has thrown a potential lifeline to the province's forestry industry, saying a major irritant that helped provoke U.S. tariffs has been fixed.

Her report released Tuesday says the province now has a better system for accurately calculating sales to mills from private woodlots, a benchmark that helps set royalties paid for timber from publicly owned Crown lands.

"A lot has changed," Adair-MacPherson told reporters. "There has been what we call significant improvements in the process and the methodology." 

An earlier report in 2008 by then-Auditor General Michael Ferguson concluded that the New Brunswick wood market "is not truly an open market" because of flaws in how the province surveyed private wood sales to set the Crown rate.

It said data was often incomplete and sample sizes in some parts of the province were too small, making it difficult to assess whether the Crown rate reflected market conditions. 

That 2008 report was cited by the U.S. forestry industry when it argued New Brunswick's system was "heavily flawed" and convinced the Trump administration to eliminate a long-standing exemption for New Brunswick from U.S. tariffs on softwood lumber.

Another factor in that decision was the rising share of wood from Crown land, which in the eyes of American policymakers amounts to subsidized lumber.

In 2017 the U.S. applied new tariffs on Canada and eliminated the traditional New Brunswick exemption it had in place during previous tariff battles.

J.D. Irving Ltd. pays 9.38 percent on its exports to the U.S. while other mill owners pay 20.8 percent.

"We hope today's report advances rightful pursuit of duty free lumber exports to the United States for the NBLP," said Jerome Pelletier, a vice-president of J.D. Irving Ltd. and chair of the New Brunswick Lumber Producers. 

System now working

Adair-MacPherson says the process for measuring private wood sales is now working. "It's a valid tool to use in setting the Crown timber rates."

But she says the province must now use the improved system to update rates annually, as required by law. The rates haven't been updated since 2015.


“A lot has changed,” Auditor General Kim Adair-MacPherson told reporters. “There has been what we call significant improvements in the process and the methodology.” (Ed Hunter/CBC)

Natural Resources and Energy Development Minister Mike Holland says he was glad to see the audit.

"We've listened, we've corrected some drift and we're moving in the right direction," he said.

"I'm very pleased that she came back and indicated that we have a functioning market here in the province." 

He said his department would be "working toward" updating the rates annually but would not comment on whether the new audit would be used by New Brunswick to argue for its traditional exemption from tariffs.

The World Trade Organization recently ruled that the U.S. was wrong to impose the tariffs on Canada in 2017.


Natural Resources and Energy Development Minister Mike Holland says he was glad to see the audit. (Kirk Pennell/CBC News)

It said the U.S. Commerce Department made errors in determining the benchmark Canadian timber prices to determine whether producers here were paying adequate stumpage fees to provincial governments. 

But the Trump administration swiftly attacked the ruling as unfair. 

Last  year the Higgs government announced plans to give private woodlots a larger share of the market to supply large mills in New Brunswick, while freezing the amount coming from Crown land. 
 

About the Author

Jacques Poitras

Provincial Affairs reporter

Jacques Poitras has been CBC's provincial affairs reporter in New Brunswick since 2000. Raised in Moncton, he also produces the CBC political podcast Spin Reduxit.

 

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices


 
 
17 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story. 
 
 
 
 
 
David Amos
Yea Right
 
 
Ronald Parker
Reply to @David Amos: Do you if that guy Gallant hired to sell wood in the USA is still on NBs payroll?
 
 
Ronald Parker
Reply to @Ronald Parker: Meant to say do you know if
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Jos Allaire 
More money in the province's coffers! Not. Most being funneled in tax havens. The golden rule, the one with the gold makes the rules. 
 
 
Jos Allaire 
Reply to @Jos Allaire: And it's all legal, I might add.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Paul Bourgoin
I wonder how much royalty revenue money New Brunswick lost and who pocketed it?
 
 
Jos Allaire 
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin: I don't know how much but I sure know who pocketed it!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Paul Bourgoin
Lots And Lots of money for Industry, especially from crown land Lumber but not much for their employees. Crown land Lumber is the GOLD MINE . No Forest Rangers, No Biologists, no Buffers, No Protected areas, harvest the last tree. Then the forest transformation arrives. Wild Forests are then converted into tree farms and this is what destroys MOTHER NATURE's role as the natures Balance then we watch nature converted into a tree-farm! WHAT A STEAL!!!!!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Paul Bourgoin
J.D. Irving Ltd. pays 9.38 percent on its exports to the U.S. while other mill owners pay 20.8 percent. WHY?? and HOW COME?
 
 
Matt Steele
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin: .....I believe that Irving acted on their own to make a deal with the U.S. ; while other mill owners depended on govt. to speak on their behalf. Obviously the Irving staff did a lot better job at negotiating a deal than the govt. staff did .
 
 
Rosco holt 
Reply to @Matt Steele:
Or the government had Irving's back with lobbyist and lawyers.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Rosco holt 
The province shouldn't have had this issue to begin with. It's all thanks to our spineless politicians who can't say no to Irving.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Rudy Hicks   
A 'significant improvement' would be leveling the playing field so someone besides Irving had a chance to make a living in forestry. The current system is rigged *against* private woodlot owners, and rigged *against* the taxpayer, and serves to export our wealth to Irving tax havens.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Robert L. Brown
Last year the Higgs government announced plans to give private woodlots a larger share of the market to supply large mills in New Brunswick, while freezing the amount coming from Crown land. They need to do a lot more and quickly or we will have no natural forests left
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Peters  
Price controls only benefit a very select few.

Like the AG said, our lumber industry is not an open market, and that is bad for consumers and small woodlot owners. It's very good for the ones that control the monopoly though.

 
 
 
 
Charles Dunton 
More money in the province's coffers! Not. Most being funneled in tax havens. The golden rule, the one with the gold makes the rules.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Charles Dunton  
Do not bet the farm on America's reasonableness nor consistency. History suggests that if one argument for tariffs is eliminated, the Americans will manufacture another.
There is a reason trump's America First, America Only is so popular.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Ben Haroldson 
Awful whack of log trucks going by here, that's for sure

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Chief of Staff Mikey Hollingworth finally called me back from 613 898 6568 (not his office number) on Oct 20th at 3:30 PM  my time. I was happy he called and thanked him for doing so. He claimed to have found nothing about my concernrs and seemed surprised whie told hi i had already made comments in cbc and tweeted about him and his boss. I gave him the benefit of my doubt  and Hollingworth listened intently as I gave him the background but as soon as I zeroed in on contacts the Commissioners, he got too busty to speak with me any longer. Surprise surprise Surprise like i have met with such a resopnse hundreds of times from cops, lawyer. politicians and bureaucrats trying to play dumb. So I as I left him off the hook I merely told him to say hey to his boss because he is the dude I wish to argue in Federal Court.

https://geds-sage.gc.ca/en/GEDS?pgid=014&dn=T1U9Q08tQkMsT1U9Q0JDLUJDQyxPVT1JU0VELUlTREUsTz1HQyxDPUNB

Commissioner's Office

People7

 https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-hollingworth-1a7ab32b/?originalSubdomain=ca


 Michael Hollingworth

Chief of Staff and Associate Deputy Commissioner at Competition Bureau Canada

Experience


 

https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies



Replying to   @alllibertynews and 49 others  
Methinks Matty Boswell Commissioner of Competition and his Chief of Staff Mikey Hollingworth should not deny that I called them today and left another voicemail promising another email N'esy Pas?
 
 
 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/lumber-high-woodlot-low-1.5763456 

 

High lumber prices not trickling down, say woodlot owners

Woodlot owners say that while the cost of lumber has skyrocketed, the royalties they get for roundwood haven't

 

CBC News · Posted: Oct 15, 2020 2:23 PM AT 

 

 

While retailers and mills are reaping the rewards of increased lumber demand, woodlot owners claim the same can't be said for them. (CBC)

Lumber prices have skyrocketed as more people do renovations and new builds during the COVID-19 pandemic.

And while retailers and mills are reaping the rewards of increased demand, the same can't be said for woodlot owners.

Rick Doucett, the president of the New Brunswick Federation of Woodlot Owners, said the royalties paid to woodlot owners for raw materials have not increased during the pandemic even as the prices for finished lumber has gone up.

"The expectation [is] when you [see] the price of lumber increase to that amount, you would see a corresponding increase in price of roundwood, which is used to make that particular lumber," said Doucett.

"In this particular case, even though there's been… record setting lumber prices, we're certainly not seeing record setting roundwood prices. In fact, we're not even seeing increases at all."

Doucett said the price of finished lumber, the kind you would buy in a hardware store, has skyrocketed.

"Lumber prices over the last six, seven, eight months have have gone up over 100 percent," said Doucett. 

"Back in June on the Natural Resources Canada site, the price for two by fours per thousand [board feet] was $600. And in September, it was $1,300 per thousand [board feet]."

Current system

Doucett said the issue is that the price paid by mills is determined by how much lumber they have in lumber yards.

They can get a lot of lumber from Crown land, and Doucett says the province isn't selling that wood at a competitive price, which hurts woodlot owners.

Rick Doucett, the president of the New Brunswick Federation of Woodlot Owners, said the royalties paid to woodlot owners for raw materials have not increased during the pandemic even as the prices for finished lumber has gone up. (CBC)

"Because we have a large supplier of wood, basically the Crown, that doesn't seem to care whether they make any money selling wood, that wood supply gets into people's yards and it creates an inventory issue that is used to keep the prices of what needs to be paid for private wood down," said Doucett.

The disparity is so deep Doucett said he didn't cut any wood on his lot this year because he didn't feel he would get a fair return on value.

Doucett said in other jurisdictions, like Alberta, harvesters pay wood royalties on a sliding scale based on the price of the finished product.

Pushing for change

He said New Brunswick doesn't do this, and it's in the best interest of the mills for this arrangement to continue.

"I suspect that those that would have to pay those royalties, you know, on a sliding scale, based on the value of finished products, are putting up an argument why that might not be beneficial to New Brunswick," said Doucett. 


New Brunswick woodlot owners say all they can do is watch what's happening to prices for lumber like the rest of us, because they're not sharing in the boom.  They're calling for changes to make the system more fair.  Rick Doucett is president of the New Brunswick Federation of Woodlot Owners. 8:08

"I'm not privy to that argument, but I do know that other jurisdictions have moved in that direction."

Doucett said the federation has lobbied successive governments to change legislation to make the arrangement more equitable for woodlot owners, so far with no success.

"The original Crown Lands and Forest Act has been gutted by amendments that served only one part of the equation, which is basically the interests of the industry," said Doucett. 

"We made many suggestions to many governments as to what amendments need to be either replaced or put back into the Crown Land and Forest Act to bring some fairness back into the system. But nobody's moved on it."

With files from Information Morning Fredericton

 

 

92 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.

 


 
David Amos  
"Methinks Higgy's Circus must go on and on and on N'esy Pas?"

Google it
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Amos  
I have spoken with Rick Doucett, the president of the New Brunswick Federation of Woodlot Owners personally in the past. Trust that he and his many associates over the years cannot deny that I have been trying to help the folks who own private woodlots in NB with this issue since I first ran for public office in 2004. In return I was booted from debate about it in Sussex while running against Northrup et al in 2018 while everybody laughed at me? Yea Right.
 
Methinks its my turn to laugh back. However I am being abused as well. Not only am I one of the folks in New Brunswick who is a stakeholder the Crown land that is competition with the private woodlots, as a consumer l must pay too much for a 2X4 and plywood etc.
 
Meanwhile the Commissioner of Competition has continued to ignore my concerns since the issued was raised a an SNB meeting in front of me in early 2007. he fact that I am and everybody else are forced to be involved with unfair competition with ourselves is irritating to say the least. Trust everybody in Sussex involved with wood knows the greedy corporate dudes have had control the Crown bigtime ever since the local lawyer Frank McKenna won every seat in the legislature many moons ago N'esy Pas?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Methinks Matty Boswell Commissioner of Competition and his Chief of Staff Mikey Hollingworth should not deny that I called them both todsy and left another voicemail promising another email N'esy Pas?
 
 
Ray Oliver
Reply to @David Amos: Haha they'll get right back to ya wait by the phone. Your valuable input shall change the entire industry nesy pas?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Methinks I should ask you RCMP buddies how will you know whether they did or not N'esy Pas? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Amos
Methinks its high time for Minister Mikey Holland to quit concerning himself about hunting turkeys and finally do a decent days work N'esy Pas?
 
 
Ben Haroldson
Reply to @David Amos: Well I wish he'd come up here and cull some of the neck jer kin things outa my yard.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: I thought you were south of me
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Margo Stewart
Thanks Terry Seguin for your email reply - "We haven't asked for an Industry reaction." Would have liked them to be accountable in this story. Will CBC be following up?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Margo Stewart: Methinks folks should ask Seguin why he has never responded to my emails and has even blocked me within Twitter N'esy Pas?
 
 
Harvey York
Reply to @David Amos: why would folks ask him when folks already know the answer?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Harvey York: and the answer is???
 
 


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Margo Stewart
CBC - did industry decline to respond on this story?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Margo Stewart: Go Figure Who reads our words
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
valmond landry
Every day there is more forest being destroyed they have machinery working 24/7, a lot of wood being cut so small that they could make tooth picks or wood chips. Just look at the picture, there is a lot of clear-cutting going on and nobody seems to be preoccupied by that. Destroying the forest, and we could say the same thing in the fishing industry big, boats what they call Dragers, fishing lobster and fish by the tons eventually they'll be and end to that it won't last forever.I know that
 
 
James Risdon
Reply to @valmond landry: One of the biggest threats to our forests these days in North America is the environmental movement.

Under the definitions of what is "carbon neutral" in terms of sources of energy are trees. The idea is that since they grow back and sequester carbon that cutting them and burning them only temporarily releases carbon into the atmosphere and that carbon will eventually be sequestered back in the trees when they grow again.

Because of that, trees are being cut across North America to be burned in biomass power plants to produce electricity, a supposedly "clean energy".

That electricity is then used to power things like electric cars.

So, whenever someone plugs in their car, the odds are that they are using either fossil-fuel generated electricity through the burning of coal or wood-powered electricity through the burning of trees. In our neck of the woods, we produce a lot of electricity through hydro projects and wind turbines, so we are the exception.

The bottom line is this: If we want to protect forests in North America, we should encourage the development of the Alberta tar sands and the use of gasoline and diesel powered vehicles that are as fuel-efficient and clean as possible rather than electric vehicles that are powered by energy ultimately derived from wood and coal-powered plants.
 
 
James Risdon
Reply to @James Risdon: Don't take my word for it. Check out the list of biomass plants using wood for yourself: http://biomassmagazine.com/plants/listplants/biomass/US/
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @James Risdon: Methinks former Irving spin doctors do go on and on and on as they seek employment again N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
James Risdon
When lumber prices go down to well below the usual levels, do woodlot owners expect royalties for roundwood to be lowered and to be paid less?

The current high prices are not going to last. It's a blip in the demand. A lot of the work done by DIYers this year during the Covid-19 layoffs is likely stuff people would have done over the next few years. They just had the chance to do it earlier.

That means that next year and maybe even the year after than, demand for lumber will probably be softer than usual - and much lower than this year.

That's important because if woodlot owners want royalties to go up now because lumber prices are high now, then by the same logic they would have to agree to lower royalties when the prices plummet next year.

The woodlot owners are going to have one, maybe two good years of high sales as lumberyards rebuild stock. Once the demand tapers off, though, so too will the sawmills purchases of roundwood. When that happens, lumber prices will drop and so will the amount of wood sawmills are buying.

If the woodlot owners tie their royalties to the lumber prices, then their royalties would start falling just as the volume of sales also drops - and that could have a very serious negative impact on their operations.

They might be better off to just leave the royalties where they are, sell more wood over the next year, and store up some of that extra revenue for what will likely be a lean year after that.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @James Risdon: Methinks you are living proof that once one is an Irving spin doctor one is always an Irving spin doctor Nesy Pas?

 
 
Johnny Jakobs
Reply to @James Risdon: blah blah blah I didn't even read your whole post. Its blatantly obvious the Empire has had a sweet deal for many decades.
 
 
Ray Oliver
Reply to @Johnny Jakobs: and they will continue to have that deal. Try to get some sleep and move on
 
 
Johnny Jakobs
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Some people call me an Ace. I just don't like the way they pronounce it.
 
 
Clive Gibbons
Reply to @James Risdon: Funny they've able to adjust the the selling price of lumber due to a blip in demand, but can't adjust the price they pay for wood. That's exactly what they did about 15 years ago, and lowered the price on a cord of studwood to $100 per cord, roadside. It had been as high as $145. It's hovered around the 100 mark for a good dozen years.
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @Johnny Jakobs: Sweet deal ?? They dont even sell one piece of wood to Canada, everything is sold to either Home Depot or foreign countries...
 
 
Johnny Jakobs
Reply to @Marc Martin: yea that's right... we get second or third pick on harvested timber from "crown land"
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @Johnny Jakobs: *we get second or third pick on harvested timber from "crown land" * Not even, all their wood in their bigest mills in St-Leonard is sold to Home Depot or brought to their dumping land in Boston...
 
 
Johnny Jakobs
Reply to @Marc Martin: prolly evading more taxable revenue by selling it through shell companies to the states... disgusting.
 
 
Randy McNally
Reply to @Johnny Jakobs: To your point. I live in a border community. I was doing a small dyi project at my house last year. No home Depot within 100 miles but there is a Lowes in Maine 25 miles away. Kent is close by but their inventory is limited and I find their lumber is poor quality. Anyway, at that time I could buy a number 1 grade 8 foot 2x6 at Lowes, pay the import cost, figure in the difference in the money and still get it cheaper than I could at my local Castle Building supply. To add insult to injury, there is a good chance that the origin of this 2x6 was NB crown land in the first place
 
 
Johnny Jakobs
Reply to @Randy McNally: thats exactly the problem.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Randy McNally:BINGO
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Marc Martin
What people don't know is that the big rich family harvest wood and doesn't even sell it here, it is sold to Home Depot USA and makes alot of money over it.
 
 
Randy McNally
Reply to @Marc Martin: I brought this point up at a Kent store a couple of years ago. I said to the yard worker as we were picking through the pile trying to get some decent material while loading my pickup. "I don't understand why it is so hard to get a decent piece of lumber from Kent stores." He said "Irving don't sell any of their own lumber at their stores , they export all of it." - if you live in a place where you can see their trains go by just look at the number of cars loaded with lumber going to Maine every day of the week.
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @Randy McNally: I know worked for one of their biggest saw mill for years...
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled  
Reply to @Randy McNally: WOW
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Randy McNally
Covid crises aside, the crises which is affecting the vast majority of NB'ers is escalating prices. And I would reclassify it as "|the unnecessary escalation of prices from food to toilet paper to 2x4's." Personally, I could care less that private wood producers are getting lost in the shuffle of corporate profiteering ....JOIN FREAK'in THE CLUB
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Randy McNally: As an Independent old coot I often quote what old Groucho Marx said Long ago "I would never belong to a club that would have me for a member" because if you can't find some fun in this madness you will go crazy/ Like Will Rogers I live to poke holes in stuff shirts

That said Methinks you should scroll down You may change your mind and regain a little empathy. We are all in the same punky dory and sometimes it appears to me that nobody has been trying to bail it out but I never lose my faith in my fellow Maritimers whom I was born a raised with We were all raised to the Four Fs N'esy Pas? 
 
 
Lou Bell
Content disabled 
Reply to @David Amos: If Dave stands in the middle of the forest ( or Legislature for that matter ) and shouts does anyone hear ? Nope !
 
 
Ben Haroldson
Reply to @Lou Bell: If it was the legislature, it should be " Is anyone here? " .
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Lou Bell: Obviously YOU heard me
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Jos Allaire
Don't count on any changes as long as Higgs remains Premier. Alward and Paul Robichaud gave all public wood lots to big business with big smirks on their face.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Jos Allaire: McKenna drew first blood and it never stopped
 
 
Matt Steele
Reply to @Jos Allaire: ....That happened long before Alward got into politics . It was former Liberal Premier Frank McKenna who took all the crown land woodlot leases away from the little guy , and gave the leases to the big mills and corporations for next to free . It was also Frank McKenna who sought to break the Unions province wide .
 
 
Jos Allaire
Agreed! No matter whom you put there, money talks and BS walks
 
 
Jos Allaire
Reply to @Matt Steele: Alward and Paul Robichaud made it even worse.
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @Matt Steele: Alward made it alot more worst...Stop protecting your buddies...
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @Jos Allaire: No changes will be made Higgs was minister of finance under Alward he is there for big business only.
 
 
Jos Allaire
Reply to @Marc Martin: And he walks the walk when he does not talk the talk! Higgs is the friend if big business and the enemy of the people.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Stephen Grant
Not much left on Crown land, a report from the Conservation Council Of NB reported back in 2015 that our lands were being clear cut at a unsustainable level. Fast forward to present day , our forests look like bombs have been dropped on them, high lumber prices and Irving feeding their $1 Billion tissue plant in Georgia with our wood and spineless politicians doesn't leave much hope for proper management in the future!!
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Stephen Grant: BINGO
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Paul Bourgoin
Where is the forestry Provincial Leadership that is supposed to balance crownland wood prices, size of clearcuts but not to gauge the private woodlot owners selling their wood at rock bottom prices. While Industry gets the maximum available pricing. High prices for wood always generates over harvesting of our crownland Buffer Zones and wildlife protected areas. New Brunswick forest management is not managed by the Crown but harvested by industry !
 
 
Michael Collins
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin: The "management" was handed over to industry several years ago. That's a fact.
 
 
Paul Bourgoin
Reply to @Michael Collins: That was private woodlots, but one must remember that fish and wildlife belong to the people of New Brunswick and not industry and they don't have the authority to destroy fish and wildlife habitat for profits. 
 
 
Michael Collins
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin: I'm talking crown land. Management was handed over to industry and they were given the authority to do as they see fit. Fish and wildlife habitat takes a back seat to profits.
 
 
Michael Collins
Reply to @Paul Bourgoin: "We own 3.2 million acres and manage 2.8 million more acres of Crown land in New Brunswick." This from Irving Woodlands own website.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Michael Collins: BINGO
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
valmond landry
Somebody is making money when you have to pay $10for a piece of 2x4 8 ft. long and it's not the best quality the good quality is being shipped out.
 
 
Ben Haroldson
Reply to @valmond landry: That ain't new policy, that's mckenna legacy. Enjoy it.
 
 
Lou Bell
Reply to @valmond landry: Where do you pay 10 dollars for a piece of second grade 2x4 ? Please tell us !
 
 
Lou Bell
Content disabled 
Reply to @valmond landry: There's a sucker born every minute . 10 dollars for a piece of 2nd grade 2x4 ! Someone sure saw someone coming !! Or is that something from social media , like all the COVID deniers pick up from the " experts " ???
 
 
Buddy Best
Reply to @Lou Bell: Before you belittle others try doing your home work. Price on umber has quadrupled in the last few months. Who is doing the milling I wonder? Someone who exploits at every opportunity. Starts with I ends with G.
 
 
Paul Bourgoin
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: The NB Premier is the Boss as was McKenna back in the Day . Also the same mills are still profiting on what is left of our Forests, Our Protected areas. Our Politicians are too weak to face the Giant Beaver who consumes our crownland WOOD!
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: Methinks Lord promised to reverse McKenna"s actions if elected N'esy Pas?
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks you should pay a visit to the Kent Store before you embarrass more than you have already done N'esy Pas?
 
 
Ray Oliver
Reply to @David Amos: what would you ever go to a hardware store for? Glue to sniff?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell @Ray Oliver: Methinks you may enjoy little review of your words Anyone can cut and paste the following words N'esy Pas>?

"Methinks Higgy's Circus must go on and on and on N'esy Pas?"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Johnny Jakobs
"The original Crown Lands and Forest Act has been gutted by amendments that served only one part of the equation, which is basically the interests of the industry," said Doucett. 

You mean the Empire had their way again? Nooooooo... baffling
 
 
Ray Oliver
Reply to @Johnny Jakobs: And you were expecting what result? Hey let's drive em out and watch this place become total 3rd world. True dough is doing his best as is opening the flood gates let's lose all our good jobs too!!!
 
 
Buddy Best
Reply to @Ray Oliver: Driving these vultures out can only be an improvement. They are predictors. They don't want any competition and the government is in their back pocket. If they leave within a year the economy will recover under new ownership.
 
 
Buddy Best
Reply to @Ray Oliver: You do know we are poverty capital of Canada with the lowest family income. Who is the largest private employer in the Province? Need you ask why we are lowest family income?
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Buddy Best: You do know who you are arguing with correct?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Buddy Best: Oh My My Methinks the Powers That Be in NB protect somebody too much N'esy Pas? 


 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Michael Collins
One company controls the wood and the prices in New Brunswick with the help of government. Good luck trying to change that. Taxpayer subsidization is real in this province and private woodlot owners are being ripped off by a company that controls the market and sets their own market values.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Michael Collins: Methinks it more than one company abusing us. Unlike the Irving Clan's holdings the other ones are publicly held Perhaps folks should buy shares in them and raise some serious Hell There is more than one way to skin a cat N'esy Pas?

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Joe Smith
Maybe the boys should get together and withhold Woodstocks from the market and let the mills bid for the wood from the group. That may get someone’s attention.
 
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Joe Smith: Trust that hat will never happen
 
Methinks you forget we are Maritimers we never agree on anything N'esy Pas?
 
 
Matt Steele 
Reply to @Joe Smith: ...It wouldn't do any good as crown land wood is being given away to the mills and big corporations for next to nothing . As long as the mills are getting crown land timber at way below market value , they will never pay the private woodlot owner anything . Why pay fair market value for anything when they can get all the wood they want for free from the crown lands
 
 
Joe Smith
Reply to @Matt Steele: maybe call the US government and give them that info, I’m sure they would be interested. That may get the government to raise the prices to the mills. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Rudy Hicks
It's a rigged system that benefits only the Irvings and the other big out-of-province companies. The Irving pirates then tax-dodge their way to the bahamas, while real working tax payers foot the bills, and private woodlot owners struggle to get enough out of their wood to make it even worth cutting.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Rudy Hicks: Oh So True
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: Apparently we are not permitted to agree
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
JOhn D Bond
Sounds much like the ongoing softwood lumber issue with the US where crown lands being harvested are subsidizing the mills or pulp industry.
Go figure. Why would the government fix something that has already caused so much pain to so many.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @JOhn D Bond: Methinks many folks would agree that you should take your own advice N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Peter demerchant
Thank you Frank McKenna..... New Brunswick's tooth ache that never goes away.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Peter demerchant: Obviously I concur
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Al Borland
There was a party for that called the People's Alliance but only 12.5% of people voted for it. They also wanted to stop linguistic division in our province, protect our traditional morals and liberty. Instead people voted for a former Irving executive who now has us all M U Z Z L E D.
 
 
Joseph Vacher
Reply to @Al Borland: unfortunatly, they spent their time getting rid of front license plates instead...... you know, that problem that noone ever had
 
 
Dan Armitage
Reply to @Al Borland: un fortunately we lost democracy in that election. And for Vacher take a better look at Kris has been doing at least he rolls up his sleeves what about your party oh yea thats is exactly what they wanted to do on our dime
 
 
Joseph Vacher
Reply to @Dan Armitage: Austin has done nothing since being elected, sleeves rolled or not.
 
 
Rudy Hicks
Reply to @Al Borland: Their mistake was trying to pit anglophones and francaphones against each other. We don't need wedge issues, partisanship. or any of that divisive politics american-style crap; we need collaborative politics. I might have supported them, had they not opened the bilingualism discussion.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Al Borland: I am not muzzled and never was.

Methinks you wish to forget Austin et al supported Higgy and helped him det the mandate stay in power until he got a majority mandate and kicked the PANB to the curb N'esy Pas?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Joseph Vacher: Methinks whereas I paid good money for that front plate I am keeping it because Higgy usually changes his mind about so many things he may make us buy them again N'esy Pas?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Armitage: Clearly you don't know the same "Kris" I know
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Rudy Hicks: Good point
 
 
Randy McNally
Reply to @Joseph Vacher: Ha ha that's what I've always said they solved a problem that never really existed
 
 
Randy McNally
Reply to @David Amos: Yes Austin was clearly out manoeuvred prior to the last election. Peeked too soon.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Randy McNally: Methinks Higgy et al would agree that he had no peek to begin with he just keeps sinking to a new low Nesy Pas?

Trust that I had his number back in 2010 before Higgy was ever elected and before Austin registered his dubious party with Elections NB I have not been surprised ever since as he went out of his way to prove to many that he was not worthy of anyone's vote. Higgy et all no doubt know that last summer I was busy exposing his BS on a recorded live talk show until I was maliciously cut off. Anyone can listen to what we said to this very day..

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