Monday, 12 October 2020

New school sites reflect outdated development policies, say planners


 https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies



Replying to   @alllibertynews and 49 others 
Methinks Cardy flip floped order to keep his better half and her new buddies Burke works with Happy Happy Happy or she would stuff his butter tarts in the gas tank of his ugly yellow motorcycle N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/school-sites-flawed-say-planners-1.5755152


New school sites reflect outdated development policies, say planners

Land use professionals say climate change and health need more weight in building decisions

 

Jennifer Sweet · CBC News · Posted: Oct 12, 2020 7:00 AM AT


The Education department says a total of $17.68 million was allocated in 2020-21 for construction of the new K-8 school in Hanwell. Tendering and construction was delayed about six months by the pandemic. The school is now expected to open in September 2022. (Jennifer Sweet/CBC)

Controversy over the location of a new school in Moncton has drawn attention to the fact that New Brunswick does not have development policies that prioritize modern planning goals such as climate change adaptation or healthy living.

It also raises questions about a new school project in the education minister's riding.

The proposed location of the new school in Moncton, next to Bernice MacNaughton High School, will mean very few students will live within walking distance, and those who do would have to cross one of the city's busiest streets to get there.

In that sense, it repeats a pattern from several years back, when a new location was chosen for Moncton High School.

"Today the majority, if not all, of the children attending the school must be bused," said Jamie Burke, president of the New Brunswick Association of Planners.

"And housing is cropping up on unserviced lots around the school rather than on readily serviced lots within the Moncton city limits."

 

Jamie Burke is president of the New Brunswick Association of Planners. (He also works for the Town of Sackville as chief administrative officer.) (Submitted by Jamie Burke)

A similar situation is playing out in the Rural Community of Hanwell, a recently incorporated area along a 25-kilometre stretch of Route 640 southwest of Fredericton, where a new K-8 school is being built.

There is one neighbourhood within 2.4 kilometres of the school, but it's across a busy highway with no sidewalks.

And one-acre building lots are now being sold in undeveloped wooded areas nearby.


The new K-8 school in Hanwell is being built next to Route 640, which has a gravel shoulder and no sidewalks. (Jennifer Sweet/CBC)'

The planners association has been asking the province for decades, said Burke, to adopt provincial planning policies to guide development and address the problem of urban sprawl.

"What we're trained to do and what we're trying to do as professional land-use planners is direct new development in the right place," he said.

The NBAP represents 68 registered professional planners who work for municipalities, consultants, and the provincial government. They do things such as administer zoning bylaws and work with developers on new building projects.

And they plan land use, taking into account a wide range of factors, from social and cultural needs and esthetics, to efficiency, the economy and environmental conservation.

"From an economics point of view and efficient delivery of services, we try to put it in strategic areas where, for example, services already exist, such as water, sewer, storm, transit — reducing the need for people to rely on private automobiles."

 

Hanwell promotes itself as a community that strives to maintain a rural feel and provide a high level of services. (Jennifer Sweet/CBC)

The planners pointed out in a report submitted to government in 2016 that growth in the urban-rural fringe undermines the viability of communities by affecting the growth and tax base of municipalities. 

"The belief that growth at any cost is good for the economy is no longer sustainable," said the report, prepared by Dillon Consulting.

The attraction to build on the fringes is understandable, said Burke. Property is often cheaper there.

"There's no doubt we need new schools and we are an urban and rural province. There certainly needs to be a balance."

What's also needed, he said, is an improved level of communication between the stakeholders, including municipalities, the Department of Education and the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure.

Strategic areas where new schools could be located should be identified that work for everyone, Burke said.

Education Minister Dominic Cardy said he wanted to keep politics out of school site decisions but agreed that municipalities should have a say.

 

Education minister Dominic Cardy says school siting policies may be reviewed as part of a municipal reform process. (Radio-Canada)

The location of the new K-8 school in Moncton was recommended by staff in the departments of Transportation and Infrastructure and Education and Early Childhood Development, he said, who have "expertise in this area."

The team is made up of the senior project manager and director from the Education Department's facilities and transportation branch, staff from the Transportation and Infrastructure Department's property services branch, and engineers and architects from its design and construction branch, said department spokesperson Tara Chislett.

Cardy said they take into account things such as cost, access to services and amenities, future growth in the neighbourhood, safety issues and suitability of the existing land.

"The same criteria you would have for picking any new build project," he said, "and trying to connect that to the people you were hoping that new building would serve."

 

A new school can increase demand for property nearby. (Jennifer Sweet/CBC)

As with the recent decision about the Moncton school, there were also complaints in Fredericton when the Hanwell school site was selected.

The city had been planning for a new school in a new neighbourhood in its southwest end, with serviced lots, high population density and sidewalks.

"Our new Municipal Plan needs to be part of any planning process for new schools," said Mayor Mike O'Brien, noting the city's growing population.

Cardy said it's always a challenge to build schools in urban areas.

"You don't have large parcels of land available or affordable."

That's why new schools tend to be built on the edges of communities, he said.

"That's part of the way urban development works when you have population growth," he said.

Cardy anticipates facing a similar challenge in the near future as George Street Middle School in Fredericton has to be replaced.

"It's difficult to see where in downtown Fredericton right now you could build that new school."

But Burke said putting schools on the outskirts of communities also comes at a high cost. 

"Planning decisions and the locations of certain land uses, particularly schools, can come with extremely expensive repercussions if they're not put in the right place."

Growth in Hanwell represents urban sprawl from Fredericton, but at least it's not entirely unplanned.


Hanwell enacted a revised zoning map in 2016. (Hanwell Rural Community)

The rural community adopted a zoning plan in 2016. It sets objectives such as minimizing environmental impact and requires applications for new large subdivisions.

Elsewhere, on more than 60 per cent of the land mass in the province, there is no plan to regulate and control land use, according to the Dillon Consulting report.

"We have a huge area unincorporated outside municipal boundaries," said Burke. 

"Some have rural plans, some don't. Where there is no local land use planning, people are free to do what they want with their property."

Protection of the province's most renowned natural features, such as rivers, forests and coastlines, is "unco-ordinated," said the planners report, "to the point that there has been a gradual erosion of the value of the natural environment."

Their report was prepared in cooperation with provincial planning directors with funding from the Environmental Trust Fund. 

The goal was to look into and promote the modernizing of planning legislation.

The project started in 2014 and the final phase was completed in 2018.

Recommendations were made for planning policy statements in five areas: climate change adaptation, flood plain development, health and the built environment, coastal development, infrastructure investment and transportation planning. 

Planners have identified these as "essential areas that need attention," said Burke.

He's hopeful action will be taken in the near future.

"Really and truly, I think we do need them."

Cardy said he looked forward to issues such as school siting being included in coming discussions about local government reform.

With files from Shane Magee/CBC

 


 

90 Comments 
Commenting is now closed for this story.
 

 


David Amos
Content disabled 
"Education minister Dominic Cardy says school siting policies may be reviewed as part of a municipal reform process"

Methinks its blatantly obvious that Cardy had to say that in order to keep his better half and her new buddies Burke works with Happy Happy Happy or she would likely stuff his butter tarts in the gas tank of his ugly yellow motorcycle N'esy Pas? 
 

 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
WOW
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Methinks it strange that while posting simultaneously about politicking only one comment about BC was blocked yet nearly every one about NB was even just word WOW N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Methinks I know whats up. I was informed months ago about a glitch in the system that evil sheople take advantage of when things go south on them. I believe in Free Speech so I would never practice such malicious nonsense. However I have a pretty good idea who is. Whereas its hard telling not knowing for sure lets just say that these sheople who spin for whomever never post in their true name as per the rules of this forum like Lou Bell and I do N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Lou Bell
The area where the City of Fredericton wants to put a school is an area made up primarily of seniors . I don't think many of them need to be within walking distance of a school !!
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks you should know you are one of the seniors who keeps Cardy stocked up on butter tarts N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 
 
Lou Bell
I believe ALL of Hanwell is at least one acre building lots . Centralized water and sewer will be decades in the making , if at all . The area where the school is being planned for is also developing and no matter where they put the school there will be virtually no children within walking distance . It's a large spread out village tht is a nice community , nice houses , large lots , it's own Fire Dept., lots of pluses . I believe the village offices are in the same location .Hanwell is a growing community of several thousand people and placing a school in the city limits would ensure ALL Hanwell students would be bused to the new city school . The closest students in Hanwell to a new city school would be 3 to 4 kilometers , with most 5 to 10 kilometers away and more . Hanwell has deep subdivisions with 40 KM speed limits which also would add to the transportation times . The reshuffling of Hanwell students would also open up a lot of space in city schools now used by Hanwell children . If the City of Fredericton had their way there'd be no rural schools outside the city , they'd have them all !!
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks everybody upon the Hanwell knows you are one Cardy's best buddies who keeps him stocked up on butter tarts N'esy Pas?  
 
 
Jos Allaire
Content disabled 
Reply to @Lou DumBell: I believe that you are a faux king E thee ot!
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Jos Allaire: C'est Vrai Maggy 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Clem Tagliente   
another nonsense article by a desperate medium trying to cling to some shred of relevance.
 
 
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Clem Tagliente:
Not really. "Education minister Dominic Cardy says school siting policies may be reviewed as part of a municipal reform process." This is a complete turn around of Mr Cardy's original position of "no discussion", seems the song and dance routine is not just limited to Mr Higgs, mighty strange.
 
 
David Amos 
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Methinks if you met Cardy's better half and knew who she works for then you would understand why I was not surprised by the flip flop or else his butter tarts and ugly yellow bike would be in jeopardy N'esy Pas?
 
 
Clem Tagliente
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Wooden ladders, talk to me. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Fred Snerd
This ship and warehouse approach to education should stop. Moving children miles each way is not environmentally friendly nor is it cost effective. Warehousing them in large complexes does nothing for their well being and mental health. Rather consider smaller community based schools.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Fred Snerd:
It is cost effective. Cheaper to bus a student than pay someone $60k snd oneion for life. We'd need several times the teachers we have now. Unless you advocate the old one roommschoolhouse approach where one teacher teaches ten grades and nobody learns anything,
 
 
Lou Bell
Reply to @Dan Short: Most teachers don't even live in the areas where they teach, so that's not even a legit excuse .
 
 
JOhn D Bond
Reply to @Fred Snerd: Absolute rubbish Fred, no mental health issues, no physical health issues, very cost effective and environmentally friendly. Where do you find this nonsense
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Fred Snerd: I concur 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Donald Gallant
Higgs will fix it. Give him time.
 
 
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Donald Gallant:
Sure he will. 2 years have passed since he was picked Grand PooBah, and nothing has been "fixed" yet, he has another 4 year run. When do you *think* he might start? 12th of never is my guess.
 
 
Lou Bell 
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: If you knew how the system works there's a priority list that each DEC provides and ( no matter which party is in power ) has to be followed . When new schools are added to the list it usually takes a matter of years for new schools to get to the top unless the DEC deems something needs to be moved forward for critical reasons . Read up on this , it could be enlightening!
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Methinks it was no guess on your part because I informed you of that date weeks ago N'esy Pas? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dan Short 
First problem is...
Listening to and following any consultant report.
 
 
Joseph Godin
Reply to @Dan Short: The only controversy is created by the reporter. Professional feces aerial relocator.
 
 
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Dan Short:
You are forgetting the reason for the consultant's report in the first place.
Deflect any blame.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: BINGO
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
John Fullmer
Don't worry everyone we are in good hands, Cardy is with us for another 4 years. I have my popcorn 
ready, this man is going to do great things.
 
Dan Short
Reply to @John Fullmer:
Well at least it's only a school and not $125 Gsmes with nothing to show afterwards,
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Dan Short:
*$125m
 
 
Terry Tibbs
Content disabled
Reply to @John Fullmer:
Too bad that any "great things" Mr Cardy does will only be in his own mind.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Oh So True 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
buster jones
Complaints? Yeah there are a few troublemakers with media friends trying to save their own skins one way or another , gee it wouldn't be tied with the Save Moncton High group would it? A school on Mountain Road, nows there a great idea. There are so many good reasons why the location was picked. Hey CBC , why not review them for the slow witted.
 
 
Tim Trites
Reply to @buster jones:
yeah i'm amongst the slow witted...how's bout you tell us about it
 
 
Carl Bainbridge
Reply to @buster jones: many of the infrastructure claims the save the Moncton high group were claiming were necessary if they put the school in the middle of nowhere have come to pass.

The majority of the road has been widened, with only the center stretch left to be done, sidewalks or paths added to the majority of the route etc.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Tim Trites: LMAO
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Tim Trites: Methinks Dennis Cochrane is chuckling tonight N'esy Pas? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
John Beacon
Having witnessed the the very controversial and suspicious cronyism over the location of the Moncton High School which has now be proven to be more of a political forced decision rather than logic, I can understand the concerns being raised over the building of this new school.
 
 
Marc LeBlanc
Reply to @John Beacon: It's a fact that in this province the right donation to the right party can can get you anything
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Marc LeBlanc:
Especially if it's liberal. But true for all parties. Not just in NB but everywhere. Course the same could be said for individuals as well. Looking out for themselves and their own. Hard to blame government when everyone does it,
 
 
Dan Stewart
Reply to @Dan Short: Pretty sure when it comes to political cronyism its very much a tie. That being said its really not hard to blame government... everyone does it after all.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Dan Stewart:
We get the gov we elect. It's always at the end of the day on the people.
 
 
Dan Stewart
Reply to @Dan Short: We get to choose the government we want and occasionally we even get what we elected. What we never loose is the blame game...
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Stewart: Who is we???
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Marc LeBlanc: Yup
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dan Short
The only reason places like Fredericton and Moncton are mad at the school locations because they lose out on the huge property tax bonanza.

 
Carl Bainbridge
Reply to @Dan Short: actually, there was uproar over both the new school and new moncton high locations in moncton, however there was no property tax loss as both locations are within city limits.

The issue was that they were poorly planned.

This new school will increase the need for bussing not reduce it.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Carl Bainbridge:
Short term yes, long term no.
 
 
Carl Bainbridge
Reply to @Dan Short: actually the location for the new moncton school has no room for additional residential growth (there is no room for additional residential growth in any possible location for the school)
 
 
Dan Short 
Reply to @Carl Bainbridge:
I think you'll find the industrial,park over the decades converting to residential
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Carl Bainbridge: Hmmm I recall when you were one Cardy's best buddies in the NDP 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dan Short
It's going on land already With a school. It's going in an area thst was going to develop anyways. So much for the arguments of a rigged system of buying and developing land.
 
 
michael levesque
Reply to @Dan Short: but its next to an industrial park???
 
 
Carl Bainbridge
Reply to @michael levesque: most parent's wanted the school on the property of one of the schools it was replacing, the new school will actually decrease the number of walking students and increase bus routes.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @michael levesque:
So? One cannot walk through an industrial park to get to school?
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Carl Bainbridge:
Nobody takes the bus anyway. Most dropped off by mommy or daddy.
 
 
michael levesque
Reply to @Carl Bainbridge:yes i know thati live in that area
 
 
michael levesque
Reply to @Dan Short: this is a very large industrial it is very far from the nearest houses i live in that area on salisbury road which would be a good 6 miles from the school.
 
 
michael levesque
Reply to @Dan Short: what a dumb thing to say too think children should be made to walk through a very busy industrial park is short of stupidity.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @michael levesque: Methinks its way past merely being stupid A wiseguy would follow the money N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Eugene Peabody
This is the normal MO of the Tory party and it happens on land owned by a big Tory supporter. Just the normal way of doing things in NB.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Eugene Peabody:
Like the libs didn't do anything differently,
Like the NDP, social credit and other parties in charge across Canada didn't do things differently.
Here's a quick lesson. There's no unclaimed land. It is all owned by someone.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Dan Short: Tell that nonsense to the Crown and their Irving buddies
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dan Short
A school in the middle of nowhere with new housing and shopping developments around it, is far more green and pedestrian friendly than putting a school in a location where everyone needs to be bussed in.
 
 
michael levesque
Reply to @Dan Short: dan this part of the city is already developed, the school is next to an industrial park, edinberg industrial park.
 
 
Carl Bainbridge
Reply to @michael levesque: there are two locations at issue here, I believe Dan is speaking of the fredericton one.
 
 
David Amos
Content disabled 
Reply to @Carl Bainbridge: Say hey to your old buddy Cardy for me will ya?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
David Peters
The what's open on Thanksgiving article is leaves a body wanting more info...just saying.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
There's a pandemic on, a day of things c,sled isn't the end of the world.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Dan Short:
*closed
 
 
David Peters
Reply to @Dan Short:
The death rate is less than the flu. Relax.

Everything isn't closed, either. They could have put a little more effort into that article, imo
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
Helping prevent the spread is NOT panicking,
As I said, everything SHOULD BE closed for a dsy, it won't kill anyone if it were all closed for a day.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
I do realize though to someone who everything is about making money That my message is a foreign concept.
 
 
David Peters
Reply to @Dan Short:
...you're obvious hysteria is just what the gov't seems to want. They also seem to want to divide citizens against one another. From your reaction, the gov't is getting the results they want...as the homelessness file gets worse.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
Not hysterical.i just don't have my head in the sand thst life is all about making a buck at any cost.
I also can read the news and see what happened in Italy and the US when the virus US left unchecked.
I'm also confident I'm in line eith the majority of citizens. I see little to no support for your constant posts on wanton profit,skiing capitalism,
 
 
David Peters
Reply to @Dan Short:
...at one time, a majority of citizens believed the world was flat, and that the Sun revolved around the Earth. Imo, there is a ton of evidence that you are on the flat Earth side of this virus scare fiasco.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
10000 deaths in Canada says otherwise. Seniors homes ravaged with deaths in Canada says otherwise. You believe in science. There is your science.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
Unless of course you deny people died and families and friends didn't lose loved ones. Then I'd say it is you on the flat earth.
What's your monetary value for a life saved, mr free market capitalist?
 
 
David Peters
Reply to @Dan Short:
It's the public healthcare monopoly who truly puts a $ figure on ppls lives, and withholds treatments for those the bureaucrat feels don't deserve it.
 
 
David Peters
Reply to @Dan Short:
The collectivists will be happy to see your public display of hysteria and attacking ppl with a different opinion than the gov't talking point narrative.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
So you don't have answers, just more rhetoric.
 
 
David Peters
Reply to @Dan Short:
Do you deny that the public healthcare monopoly withholds treatments for people for $ reasons?
 
 
David Peters
Reply to @David Peters:
...on a massive scale, and has been for decades.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
Unlike you, I see grey. I see the pros and cons on both sides, and find a solution generally in the middle. Science ya shown we just can't do nothing as you desire.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
Deflect much. As I said of answering the wuwtion of what you would do to save a life, you go back to your usual routine,
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
I think thst our system isn't perfect
I also think an open market system where I'd you can't pay you die is worse.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @Dan Short:
Peters must be an Irving, a billionaire who thinks everything should be buyable and if you can't buy you are weak and should just die.
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
Still awaiting the answer to how many COVID deaths before it meets your market value of concern.
 
 
David Peters
Reply to @Dan Short:
How much $ are big pharma raking in in the search for the vaccine? How much authority have the authoritarians gained in during this scare?
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
So again instead of any answer, more rhetoric to your agenda, it's not a hard question I know you can do it big boy
 
 
Dan Short
Reply to @David Peters:
Personally as I don't value money and especially how much others may have.
I really don't care if someone makes a trillion dollars as long as it saves a life. You can't put a price on a life, it's a one of a kind unique thing.
 
 
Tim Trites
Reply to @Dan Short:
hey hey short peter...shaddup already...ur =qally stoopid
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Tim Trites: Well put
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Randy McNally
Maybe school construction in wooded areas encourages development of subdivisions and tax revenue 
for the city kind
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Randy McNally: Perhaps
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Ben Haroldson
Land development has been in with the black hole of corruption of politics for a long time now. Build the community for the school, not the other way around, and by any means possible...sell that land for way more than what it's worth.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: Bingo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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