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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:45:18 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Attn Alex Johnston and Sylvie Gadoury Please
explain CBC and VIAFOURA's malious nonsense AGAIN real slow
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>

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---------- Original message ----------
From: "Gallant, Brian (LEG)" <Brian.Gallant@gnb.ca>
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:45:20 +0000
Subject: RE: Attn Alex Johnston and Sylvie Gadoury Please explain
CBC and VIAFOURA's malious nonsense AGAIN real slow
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>

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From: Premier of Ontario | Premier ministre de l’Ontario <Premier@ontario.ca>
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:45:12 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Attn Alex Johnston and Sylvie Gadoury Please
explain CBC and VIAFOURA's malious nonsense AGAIN real slow
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>

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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:45:12 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Attn Alex Johnston and Sylvie Gadoury Please
explain CBC and VIAFOURA's malious nonsense AGAIN real slow
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---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 17:45:08 -0400
Subject: Attn Alex Johnston and Sylvie Gadoury Please explain CBC and VIAFOURA's

malious nonsense AGAIN real slow
To: Alex.Johnston@cbc.ca, jesse@viafoura.com, sylvie.gadoury@radio-canada.ca, 

 pm@pm.gc.ca, Gerald.Butts@pmo-cpm.gc.ca, maxime.bernier@parl.gc.ca,
andrew.scheer@parl.gc.ca, premier@ontario.ca,  brian.gallant@gnb.ca,
premier@gnb.ca,  Jody.Wilson-Raybould@parl.gc.ca,
hon.ralph.goodale@canada.ca, Hon.Dominic.LeBlanc@canada.ca,
Brenda.Lucki@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, washington.field@ic.fbi.gov,
Boston.Mail@ic.fbi.gov, mdcohen212@gmail.com, djtjr@trumporg.com,
Newsroom@globeandmail.com,news@kingscorecord.com,
Jacques.Poitras@cbc.ca, oldmaison@yahoo.com,  andre@jafaust.com,
jbosnitch@gmail.com, jesse@jessebrown.ca,  blaine.higgs@gnb.ca,
David.Coon@gnb.ca, kris.austin@gnb.ca
Cc: david.raymond.amos@gmail.com, 

 darrow.macintyre@cbc.ca, Catherine.Tait@cbc.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/francophone-games-cost-soaring-1.4937587


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tax-evasion-proceeds-of-crime-1.4937176

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/top-house-democrats-raise-prospect-impeachment-jail-trump-1.4939034


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https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies





  David Raymond Amos‏ @DavidRayAmos

Replying to @DavidRayAmos @Kathryn98967631 and  49 others

Methinks everybody and his dog knows where I stand on this issue N'esy Pas?

 https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2018/12/appeal-court-backs-irving-in-dispute.html

  #nbpoli #cdnpoli

 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/jdi-jd-irving-woodlot-marketing-boards-snb-federation-commission-1.4937501

Appeal Court backs Irving in dispute with wood marketing board

56 Comments 

Commenting is now closed for this story.

 

Rosco holt

"It's depressing, whether it's been Liberal or Conservatives, they refuse to stand with their own citizens against the big, huge wealthy corporations on this.

- David ****, Green Party leader"

What did he expect, Irving owns these parties. The last politician that said no to the Empire got crucified.

Norman Albert Snr

@Rosco holt And the story continues. Chalk up another win for the Empire and lose for the people who pay the taxes.

David Amos

@Rosco holt Methinks somebody should ask the Green Party and SNB why they had me excluded from debating Bruce Northrup and the rest of the boyz in Sussex if they were sincere in what they were saying about the forestry business. N'esy Pas?

 

Paul Bourgoin

One must look and Understand that the access to cheap crown-land wood supported by Politicians tilts the scale in favor of industry while chocking sale prices the Private Woodlot Owners. This actually leaves them with no other competitive buyers thus generating low prices to the Private Woodlot owners! But if the availability of cheap, cheap public wood for these cooperate Giants would be regulated not priced at garage sale prices when compared to other market prices in other provinces it would be a fair deal for the private woodlot owners. Any way one looks at this situation the private woodlot owners are mostly senior citizens and in a few years the woodlots will be inherited by their children who will probably be living out of province and they will take what ever is offered. Then who looses?

stephen blunston

@Paul Bourgoin I will agree with that if using crown land they should be paying something close to the private lots , enough subsidizing large business maybe this province would not be so broke

David Peters

@Paul Bourgoin

This is a form of corporate welfare.

Paul Bourgoin

@stephen blunston
One of the last remaining DNR employee after all those DNRE office closures explained that with all the subsidies industry receives that at the end of the day New Brunswick end's up paying industry to harvest our crown-land, also industry is destroying all crucial wildlife habitat like Buffer Zones, Deer wintering areas, stream and river buffers. Industry always gets approval for buffer reduction, same with deer wintering areas!! I won't comment on the impact of herbisiding on the forest itself that impact on water quality and wildlife populations, fish, birds!!

Norman Albert Snr

@David Peters No..... this is not like corporate welfare it is corporate welfare by the slimiest of definitions. Crown land should only come into play when other sources are not available. Price it accordingly. These are OUR resources!!!!

David Amos

@Paul Bourgoin Methinks that in light of the fact that the Private Woodlot Owners gave me the bum's rush from their debate in Sussex for the benefit of their beloved Green Party dudes I have every right to tease them about the outcome of this matter Perhaps they and the Irving Clan deserve each other N'esy Pas?

 

steve waddell

Remember our small woodlot owners hauling out a few cord of wood for a little extra money or to put bread on the table? in 10 years, between the libs & cons this guy has been eliminated

David Amos

@steve waddell YUP

 

Nancy Alcox

Get it over with. Give Irving the key to the legislature and make it official. Maybe we can find a crown and throne for him too.
Why do people forget that the Red & Blue work for Irving? I can see why so many people don’t bother to vote. This has to stop....

David Amos

@Nancy Alcox I would like to know why the people who do bother vote laugh at the Independent candidates

 

David Peters

If there were ever a reason to protest, this is it, imo.

Nancy Alcox

@David Peters time for yellow vests..

Shawn McShane

@Nancy Alcox Mine is orange lols old school.

Norman Albert Snr

@Nancy Alcox In your dreams!!! Canadians are far too docile then that. protests here are in single didgets not mass raleys.

David Amos

@David Peters Methinks you are way past too late The woods are mostly mowed down and the wildlife is all but gone N'esy Pas?

 

Shawn McShane

Natural resources minister in Alward government says Irving letter got him fired...In a province where about half the wood supply comes from publicly owned Crown land, Northrup's story raises questions about how much control industry has over government decision-making.

At the time, the province was under pressure from J.D. Irving to decrease the amount of Crown conservation land protected from timber harvesting to 23 per cent from 28 per cent.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/irving-natural-resources-crown-land-forestry-marketing-boards-1.4474896

Jim Cyr

@Shawn McShane
You have switched the discussion to crown lands. Are you trying to obfuscate, and if so, why??

David Peters

@Jim Cyr

How Crown Land timber is given away to certain entities is directly related to this situation.

A full, publicly transparent audit of Crown Land act would help, imo.

Shawn McShane

@Jim Cyr Read the link I provided above, click on "more" It is about marketing boards as well.

Rosco holt

@Jim Cyr
Greater access to crown lands(cheap lumber) affects prices on the NB market.

Shawn McShane

@Jim Cyr And cheaper wood for Irving doesn't get passed onto the consumers the profit gets put into offshore tax haven to avoid tax in NB and the woodlot owners have less money to spend in their communities. Kent is hiring though, $11.25 per hour can't find workers so need immigrants.

David Amos

@Shawn McShane Do you ever get the feeling that nobody cares?

 

Marc Martin

This is a huge issue and the 2 CoR party leaders don't even comment on this...

Paul Bourgoin

@Marc Martin
Where is all for the Alliance candidates rhetoric during their election campaign was it just that RHETORIC WITH NO TEETH!!

Marc Martin

@Paul Bourgoin

You should know by now that PANB only have ONE agenda the anti-French one...

Jim Cyr

@Marc Martin
Nice try..........issue has erupted over the last ten years, during which the Libs were mostly in power

Shawn McShane

@Jim Cyr Liberals promised to look at the crown land forest give away done by the Alward government. They didn't.

David Peters

@Shawn McShane

Blue and red are the same on this file. Follow the money.

Archie Levesque

@Marc Martin Way to go Marc. Made it a language issue

Marc Martin

@Shawn McShane

So your blaming the Liberals for what the CoRservatives did..I wonder why B. Higgs say nothing about it now, he is in power no ?

Marc Martin

@Archie Levesque

Not at all, I made it an anti-French issue...

Shawn McShane

@Marc Martin Just before the provincial election the Libs released a review of the former PC government's forestry management strategy. The Liberals left in place the controversial Crown forest cutting allocations set by the Alward government. Higgs said he would overhaul it. We shall see. I didn't vote Liberal or PC. You did.

David Peters

@Shawn McShane

The PC candidate I talked to before the election said part of the PC platform was to review the Crown Lands Act.

Marc Martin

@Shawn McShane

You aim is focused on the Liberals, be real for once and blame the ones who are responsible, stop thinking hatred and purple.

David Amos

@Marc Martin Methinks everybody and his dog know where I stand on this issue N'esy Pas?

 

Paul Bourgoin

Many people are not aware that one acre Camp lease on Crown Land returns more money to the crown than industry forestry harvesting per acre. As far as Forestry Jobs goes 35.000 jobs in 1982 today, less then 9000 jobs remain!. Now this is not taking into account the spin-off jobs like welder shops, mechanics, machinery parts store, machinists, service stations, restaurants, TOURISTS etc. etc.!
LET US NOT FORGET, NEW BRUNSWICK WAS LABELED THE PICTURE PROVINCE !!

David Amos

@Paul Bourgoin Those days are gone

 

A M

Hey CBC,

Can we get a little analysis on WHY this decision went this way, as opposed to simply quoting the Green Party who (for some reason) hates one of the provinces biggest employers/tax generators?

Peter demerchant

@A M for some reason??? Are u kidding me. I could start down that road but I dont have all day.

A M

@Peter demerchant ok... how about you take 5 minutes then? Just give me the highlights.

Shawn McShane

@A M I don't understand why the decision went this way. Dairy Farmers of New Brunswick (DFNB) collectively market their raw milk through a board. I do know that in a recent court case against Irving the prosecutors offered a deal where $1.1 million pollution fine could be paid to a non-profit company co-created and chaired by Jim Irving...

David Peters

@A M

Crown land could be divided up amongst many different small businesses. Competition amongst those small businesses would let a free market set the price.

Ban monopolies, then break up the ones that exist first, though.

David Amos

@A M Methinks the first part of my little analysis should be how is your ID allowed by CBC rules N'esy Pas?

 

Bernard McIntyre

Of course they do.

David Amos

@Bernard McIntyre Mais Oui

 

stephen blunston

time to get rid of these board that just inflate the prices of everything and let the market set themselves , why is it that everything has to be inflated and have the consumer pay for it

Shawn McShane

@stephen blunston The government was under pressure from J.D. Irving to decrease the amount of Crown conservation land protected from timber harvesting to 23 per cent from 28 per cent. And so it was done. The government meddled in the market. They increased supply. Washington described the New Brunswick market as an "oligopsony," where a few companies dominate and have considerable power to control prices.

Rosco holt

@stephen blunston
What does the Irvings do?

The same bloody thing they inflate.

Rosco holt

@stephen blunston
"let the market set themselves "
Problem it isn't the market setting the prices but Irving and co. with the help of government.

David Amos

@Rosco holt Methinks the Irving Clan would have it no other way N'esy Pas?

 

Steve Murray

Does this sound familiar to anyone? "In economics, a banana republic is a country with an economy of state capitalism, by which economic model the country is operated as a private commercial enterprise for the exclusive profit of the ruling class. Such exploitation is enabled by collusion between the state and favored economic monopolies, in which the profit, derived from the private exploitation of public lands, is private property, while the debts incurred thereby are the financial responsibility of the public treasury".

Steve Murray

@Steve Murray Daylight come and me wan' go home. Day-o, day-ay-ay-o ...

David Amos

@Steve Murray Even the tally man is out of work they weigh the loads now

Appeal Court backs Irving in dispute with wood marketing board

Decision allows J.D. Irving Ltd. to bypass SNB negotiators to deal directly with woodlot owners

Connell Smith · CBC News · Posted: Dec 10, 2018 4:00 AM AT

Last week's decision by New Brunswick's Court of Appeal means J.D. Irving Ltd. can continue to bypass the SNB Forest Products Marketing Board. The company prefers to negotiate with individual woodlot owners.

New Brunswick's Court of Appeal has upheld a decision by the province's Forest Products Commission in a case that puts the future of the woodlot marketing board system in doubt.

The decision involves the Southern New Brunswick Forest Products Marketing Board and J.D. Irving Ltd., which was joined by AV Nackawic and some smaller companies and contractors.

But the outcome affects all of the province's seven boards, their 41,000 members and other companies that purchase timber from private woodlots.

The court ruling fully backs a December 2017 decision by the commission that struck down an attempt by the Sussex-based SNB marketing board to reassert its authority over wood sales in its territory by issuing an order saying all wood had to be sold to the board and bought from the board.

The Forest Products Commission is an arm's length panel that oversees relationships between forestry companies and the seven marketing boards.

JDI vice-president Jason Limongelli says the company purchases $650,000 per week in wood from private land. (CBC)

The case involves a dispute dating back nine years, when J.D. Irving Ltd. began bypassing the SNB marketing board and requiring landowners to negotiate wood sales on an individual basis.
In 2012, JDI stopped buying wood from the board entirely.

SNB board chair William Richards said he is disappointed by the decision.

"We are going to be looking at our options as to how we move forward on this after digesting the reality, I guess, of [the decision]," said Richards. "If you are going to have a marketing board system, you can't have a whole lot of holes in it so people can drive through and around it."

Richards says the problem could be solved if the provincial government would choose to act.

It's depressing, whether it's been Liberal or Conservatives, they refuse to stand with their own citizens against the big, huge wealthy corporations on this.- David Coon, Green Party leader

"We believe the government should enforce its own regulation and the auditor general in the 2015 report said the same thing," he said.

The woodlot marketing boards were created in the late 1970s and given power by the legislature to regulate sales from private woodlots in their territories. Mill owners negotiated timber prices with the boards, and woodlot owners sold their wood to the boards, which in turn sold the wood to the mills.

The system was designed in part to get better prices for private landholders dealing with companies that also had extensive access to wood from Crown forests.

But over the decades since the authority of the boards has been eroded by legislative amendments or by legal challenges that have kept the matter tied up for years before either the courts or the Forest Products Commission.

• Final blow? Historian fears for future of woodlot marketing boards    
• J.D. Irving and other forest companies take axe to longtime marketing board system  

In a statement JDI vice-president Jason Limongelli said the Appeal Court decision shows "SNB has no legal right to this excessive control."

"Willing buyers and sellers can do business directly in good faith," said Limongelli. "It is time to move on and focus on a productive relationship."

He said private wood makes up close to 50 percent of the company's supply, totalling about $650,000 per week.   

UNB historian William Parenteau says the court ruling effectively renders the marketing boards powerless. (University of New Brunswick)

He said the company is not "against" woodlot owners or private wood producers.

MLA David Coon, leader of New Brunswick's Green Party, said successive governments have ignored their duty to step in to support the marketing board system.

'It's depressing, whether it's been Liberal or Conservatives, they refuse to stand with their own citizens against the big, huge wealthy corporations on this," said Coon.

"Marketing boards like SNB have been trying to find other ways around this, but it just keeps coming back to the fact it's on the government. They've got to enforce their own laws that were designed to ensure that marketing boards can function effectively to assure that private woodlot owners have access to the market at a good price."

UNB historian William Parenteau, who has long followed the politics and economics of forestry in the province, said the court decision effectively renders the marketing boards "powerless."

"It's a story of 20 years of frustration for them because they keep seeing more and more the province is siding with the pulp and paper industry, and now you get this ruling which actually says that Irving and other companies can pretty much do what they want."

Kevin Larlee, the AV Group vice-president for government relations, said the company is not yet ready to comment on the decision.

A spokesperson for Energy and Resource Development Minister Mike Holland referred comment to the Forest Products Commission.

Tim Fox, the executive director of the commission, said that with the court ruling, woodlot co-ops can now take a serious look at a proposed "substitute' order released by the commission as part of its December 2017 decision.

Rick Doucett, president of the New Brunswick Federation of Woodlot Owners, said the court decision recognizes that marketing boards have authority to regulate wood sales, but whenever they try to do so they are stopped. (CBC)

It suggests the licensing of all sellers, buyers and mill owners dealing with private woodlots in the territory of the Sussex-based SNB Marketing Board.

Woodlot owners expressed interest in that proposed order, but the matter was put on hold when the SNB group elected to appeal the commission decision.

Federation president Rick Doucett said an order composed by the commission itself would stand a better chance if appealed than a different one composed by an individual woodlot group.

He said both the commission in its 2017 ruling and the court decision this week recognize the marketing boards have authority to regulate wood sales in their territories.

The problem, he said, is that any time the boards try to exercise their authority they are taken to the commission or to the courts.

"I don't really understand how the boards are supposed to function in that environment," Doucett said.

"Being able to go outside of the board and just do other deals whatever way you want, it just undermines the whole system. There's really no conceivable way to negotiate a fair marketing situation for private woodlot owners under that scenario."

About the Author

Connell Smith

Reporter

Connell Smith is a reporter with CBC in Saint John. He can be reached at 632-7726 Connell.smith@cbc.ca